September 15, 2016 Show with William Downing & Edward Dalcour on “The Christian Warfare”
“The CHRISTIAN WARFARE” is our theme on IRON SHARPENS IRON Radio featuring guests Dr. WILLIAM DOWNING of Sovereign Grace Baptist Church of Silicon Valley, CA & Dr. Edward Dalcour of Department of Christian Defense
Transcript
Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown
Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio
platform on which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues
facing the church and the world today.
Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron so one
man sharpens another.
Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we
converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another
wiser and better.
It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear
from you, the listener, with your own questions.
Now here's our host, Chris Arnzen.
Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, and the rest of humanity living on the
planet Earth who are listening via live streaming.
This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron, wishing you all a happy Thursday on
this 15th day of September 2016.
I am so delighted that I have two guests on today that I've wanted to interview for a
long time and I finally have this opportunity.
They're both going to be addressing the same topic, the Christian warfare, and for the first hour we
have on the program Dr. William Downing, Mountain Man Bill as many have called him.
He is a pastor of Sovereign Grace Baptist Church of Silicon Valley, California, and he is the author
of a number of books and the publisher of a multitude of books.
And on the second hour we have Dr. Edward Dalkor, a mutual friend of Dr.
James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries who has highly recommended Dr. Dalkor for
many years.
He is the founder of the Department of Christian Defense and he's going to be on for the second hour and they're both
promoting a Bible conference that I hope all of you who live in or near California
or who are able to get there will attend.
But first let me welcome for the very first time to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Dr. William
Downing.
Can you hear me brother?
Okay great, I thought that we might have lost connection there.
Well Brother Downing, I'm honored to have you on the program.
I have heard about you for so many years of people who love you dearly and who have been
benefited by your wisdom and knowledge.
One of the funniest stories I've ever heard about you is from my friend Pastor Dave Dykstra
who said when he was having one of his first conversations with you, you were having a
conversation about hunting which you both love and he said that you mentioned that you
are a hog hunter, a wild hog hunter, wild boar hunter and he asked what
do you use to hunt the boar and you said I use a knife and he said no
not I don't mean to butcher it I'm talking about what do you use to hunt it and he said no I hide in a tree, wait
for a boar to pass below, jump on its back and I stab it to death.
I love that story and it's actually true, you confirmed that with me and
but you've I think from our last conversation you said that you've retired from the hog hunting at least not
for now anyway.
It's no longer legal because it's
cruel and unusual
adventure.
So
in other words it's.
Legal to hunt them with a gun but not with a knife.
Would it be.
Would it be.
Illegal you to use a crossbow as well?
No it's just a knife.
Is silent.
You can hunt them with
other
means.
I took my last will.
Well first
before we even go.
Into information about the topic at hand, the Christian warfare, I want to know
something about your own personal background, your testimony of coming to Christ and then also
to coming to embrace the doctrines of Sovereign Grace.
Year 1950.
I went to my
family.
My
mother
was
in 1940.
Wow.
I
said
it
was
not
a
fundamentalist
church.
It
was
a one
night.
Wow.
I was reading philosophers.
I was trying to find sense and meaning and at age 12
fundamentalist
church is why are you
coming?
Rolling in
off the.
Now you
can get
over there.
I wanted to get rid of
life.
I know
it I can't.
He slammed
his chair
up into you.
Were
you with
a woman last
night.
January
was
an
El
Nino
year.
Fine
man.
I
loved him.
Trust
anyone
because
all the dregs of society that can't that can't make it in life end up in Bible school it seems
and so I was in Bible school the third week of Bible school.
I and the
one of
the to tell a man about the drawing of the Holy and
he said yes.
I thought that's how God drew me to himself.
John 644 is precious to me.
God drew me to himself he saved me from myself he saved me from the reigning
power.
I
looked up and said they believe this must be the only
Calvary taught the
life
of
Christ
class
dr.
teen
20s
thing
and
he
mentions 49 off
-limits.
They fuck
20 years how
seminary I
have
amen.
And
one of the
things that
sets
your
church.
Apart most Reformed Baptist churches that I am familiar with
adhere to the 1689 London Baptist Confession and some of the New Covenant theology
Calvinist Baptists adhere to the first London Confession.
Your church adheres to both.
If you could explain why and what would the difference
be.
Which has
more of
a local church take a
slightly different
remains
the
most and
that sets
us.
Now
did you
ever
reach
the point of
becoming
one of the
very
few Baptist
theonomists?
Yeah
sure.
Mike
Castle
is
a friend
of
mine from
about
1973.
He died of
cancer.
He was my
favorite
pre
when
he
died.
Yes I've
heard much
about
him
and
I.
Also knew not nearly as closely as you did but I knew R .J.
Rush Dooney.
He was a client of mine and he hosted a weekly program on the
radio station that I worked for for 15 years of New Jersey and
he.
I remember him being a very warm man and nearly every single book that I mailed to him I used to if
I liked the book and I had an extra copy because sometimes publishers supply me with
books because they want me to set up interviews with their authors and I would I would ship
off a copy to Rush Dooney and nearly every single time he would write a favorable review of it in the
Caledon report.
So it was a quite an interesting man.
Didn't agree with everything he believed by any stretch of the imagination but I I appreciated his ironic
spirit.
He was not some kind of a sectarian to an extreme
when it came to his Reconstruction at least I didn't.
Find him
to be
that way.
Yes he
had a fit to
that now.
I also
had the
pleasure of.
Meeting Dr. Greg Bonson back in the 1990s and I interviewed him
in a pastor's study at the church where he was conducting a conference and I
used a handheld recorder and interviewed Dr. Bonson and I still a little
tear runs.
Down my cheek
to this day
because I
lost the
tape.
We're gonna be
going to a.
Break right now if you'd like to join us on the air with a question for Dr. William Downing our email
address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N
-Z -E -N at gmail .com.
Please give us your first name at least your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside
of the good old USA and I look forward to hearing from you and your questions after these messages so
don't go away we're coming right back with Dr. William Downing.
Chris Arnzen here and I can't wait to head down to Atlanta Georgia and here's my friend Dr. James.
White to tell you why.
Hi.
I'm James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.
I hope you join me at the G3 conference hosted by Pastor Josh Bice and Praise Mill Baptist Church at
the Georgia International Convention Center in Atlanta January 19th to the 21st in
celebration of the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation.
I'll be joined by Paul Washer, Steve Lawson, D .A. Carson, Vody Balcom, Conrad M. Bayway,
Phil Johnson, Rosaria Butterfield, Todd Friel and a host of other speakers who are dedicated to the
pillars of what G3 stands for gospel grace and glory.
For more details go to g3conference .com that's g3 conference .com.
Thanks James.
Make sure you greet me at the Iron Sharpens Iron.
Exhibit booth while you're there.
Welcome back this is Chris Arnzen if you just tuned us in we have a wonderful two hours
waiting for you actually about 90 minutes now with two guests who are both speaking at the same conference.
We have for the first hour with a half hour to go Dr. William Downing of Sovereign
Grace Baptist Church of Silicon Valley California and coming up in our second hour we have Dr. Edward
Delcor the founder of Department of Christian Defense.
Our theme is the same as the upcoming conference the Christian Warfare and that's
going to be held in Dublin California at the Christ
Bible Church and for more information about that conference go to
christbiblechurch .org christbiblechurch .org.
And some of the speakers are the aforementioned Dr. William Downing who's on my program today.
Jeff Rose of Jeremiah Cry Ministries a really powerful brother in the Lord.
Dr. Edward Delcor as we already mentioned who's coming up on the second hour of the program.
Dr. Paul Nelson who is the author of Presuppositionalism
and this is a book that I just received not long ago from our brother on the phone right now Dr. William
Downing mailed it to me.
Presuppositionalism a biblical approach to apologetics and
this was published by Sovereign Grace Baptist Church with their PIRS publishing
ministry which stands for Pacific Institute of Religious Studies.
And also speaking is Pastor Tony Okoro and I'm
probably mispronouncing that name Pastor Leo Galanza jr. and
Pastor Joe Jackowitz who is the pastor of Christ Bible Church in Dublin
California and I apologize for any to anyone whose name I mispronounced and once again
the the website to go to for more details on this conference which is being held Saturday the 24th of
September and Sunday the 25th of September.
For more details go to christbiblechurch .org christbiblechurch .org.
And let's go to one of our listeners here who has a question
is the most referred to passage in relation to Christian warfare.
Ephesians chapter 6 the armor of God.
Well that's an excellent question.
Let me read that passage in Ephesians chapter 6 verses
10 through 18 finally be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might put on the
full armor of God so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the
devil for our struggle is not against flesh and blood but against the rulers
against the powers against the world forces of this darkness against the
spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Therefore take up the full armor of God so that you will be able to resist in
the evil day.
And having done everything to stand firm.
Stand firm therefore having girded your loins with truth and
having put on the breastplate of righteousness and having shod your feet with
the preparation of the gospel of peace in addition to all taking up the shield of
faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
And take the heart of salvation and the sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God
with all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit.
And with this in view be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all
the Saints.
Well Dr. Downing the question is is this the most referred to
passage when it comes to Christian warfare.
And is this where you're getting your inspiration for the conference.
Well this is what has been.
Assigned to
me and
I'm going to
and used
for.
Hmm
just
out of
curiosity
since
you.
Published the book that I mentioned by Paul s Nelson.
Presuppositional ism a biblical approach to apologetics.
I'm assuming you are a presuppositional list as opposed to an evidential list and if you could
give us a summary of the differences because obviously apologetics is a part of
spiritual warfare when we are dealing with people in the media and in literature and in
pulpits who are speaking lies that
contradict what God has taught through the inspiration of his Holy Spirit and his word.
So if you could tell us briefly about the difference between presuppositional ism and
evidential ism.
Dr. Nelson he's my associate pastor here.
Yes I will.
God willing.
Yes.
He has a PhD in chemistry he has a chemist and
he makes trigger
going cancer.
The leading
elder.
And then
when I return
from
the truth and
one
thing is in
escape have
more thoughts
that the evidential.
Oh yeah.
On the
Christian warfare.
Oh yeah.
And amen.
Now there
is a thing
that
has
become
very
popular
at least
in as a.
Buzzword or in Christian lingo as of late called
lifestyle evangelism.
Now I truly believe that a Christian's life is a very powerful
tool to spread the gospel of you know if people see
God in the way you live that's something that God can use to draw these people to
himself but isn't very often this abused where the spoken word of God and the
actual proclamation of the gospel is avoided and therefore people are just relying on the fact that
they're kind.
And generous and hospitable and charitable and so
on man was created.
And you you
shall and
you shall we
have CJ
and linen.
Hearse.
Long Island who
asks.
Are these forces of darkness demons and how much
influence do they actually have.
Over the life
of a
Christian.
Yes
that's what
I read
from.
Yes we
get a
word methodology from it.
It's it only occurs twice in the New Testament there and in
Ephesians
chapter
4
which
translated.
Have
you
have
the
power.
And I
think
that Greg
is arguments on
the
amen.
We have Arnie and
Perry County
Pennsylvania and.
He asks I am constantly pressured by many evangelical friends
to be more ecumenical with Roman Catholics and others who disagree with us on the gospel
because of the spiritual warfare that we are facing with liberalism and leftism and
pro -abortionism and pro -homosexuality and the list goes on.
What is your best advice on how to most biblically respond to
these people who think that these things that are destroying the fabric of our
culture here in America can only be fought by ecumenism with people
who stand with us.
Against
things
like
abortion
homosexuality
and
liberalism.
Yeah
when.
You when you keep referring to fundamentalism it is interesting that the fundamentalist modernist
controversy there were many thoroughgoing Calvinists involved in that like Jay Gresham
Machen and others and yet it seems that the fundamentalist movement was
hijacked by those who are enemies of the doctrines of grace.
Now that is a bit of a broad brush there because I know of
thoroughgoing fundamentalists who are Calvinist as well.
I even know some very thoroughgoing Calvinists that are landmark Baptists but
this is a sad thing and it causes me to scratch my head very often when those who
have as a pillar of what they stand for the inerrancy of scripture and
also salvation by grace through faith alone that they cannot
see that they are very often contradiction contradicting those very things with
their understanding of man's nature.
They very often come very close to non
-sacramental Romanism and their approach to things and sometimes even explain
things away that are clearly written in the Bible almost in a way that a liberal would that denies.
Inerrancy.
Yes
and of
course
that is
not
a
monolithic
group
of
people
for.
Instance I know fundamentalist Baptists that would call Bob Jones University a liberal
institution and so on.
So there are very varying differences of opinion within that
group.
But go ahead if you wanted to say so I know I was.
That's.
Okay I'm
doing a
study
now on the
scrap and we
will begin to
exceed and
every
yes
we have
Murray
in Kinross Scotland who asks.
It's very encouraging to hear.
Dr. Downing's testimony he is obviously very conscious of all that God has done for him.
Would he say that those who are more aware of God's working in their lives are often those
who are ready willing and able to put on the whole armor of God.
The more we see his hand in the past the more we trust him
for the.
Present
in
the
future
at
least
here many
of our
gather
you can't
say.
I always warn our
people.
And
then
you
put
something else
hmm.
They
don't want to.
Amen.
And I'd really like you to conclude your portion of the program today by just letting you
summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners for about three or four minutes
before we turn the mic.
Over
to dr.
Edward
Delcor
and that the
truth
amen.
And when you
say that
the.
Revival that you're speaking of is not the manufactured revival that many
fundamentalists and Pentecostals and other types of Christians will will say we are having a
revival this Sunday or what have you.
This is really a.
Manufactured
thing and
you're not
speaking about that at
all.
Are you and I.
Would urge our listeners if you missed my interview about a year ago with Jerry Johnson
about Charles Finney it is quite an eye -opener.
I mean the man was more Pelagian than Roman Catholics and in fact
Jerry Johnson brought up an interesting fact.
He said that Charles Finney was actually a monergist.
He wasn't a synergist but he was the bad kind of monergist because he believed.
Salvation was entirely in the
hands of
man.
Well I
want to
thank you so
much dr.
William Downing for being on the program and I look forward to having you back as often as you are willing and able and of
course God willing.
And the website for a Sovereign Grace Baptist Church of Silicon Valley California
is sgb CSV org sgb for Sovereign
Grace Baptist CSV for Church of Silicon Valley org
sgb CV org.
Thank you so much brother and I hope that you come back soon on the.
Program thank you talk with you and have this time great.
Well God bless and.
Coming up next is going to be after our station break dr. Edward Delcourt who is
going to continue our theme of the Christian warfare.
So don't go away we'll be right back.
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Welcome back.
This is Chris Arns.
And if you just tuned us in our first hour we had the privilege and honor of having
Dr. William Downing on the program for the for the very first time ever on Iron Sharpens Iron.
He is pastor of Sovereign Grace Baptist Church with Silicon Valley California and
now we have joining us Dr. Edward Delcor another brother in Christ.
I've been wanting to get on this program for many years and he is the founder of the
Department of Christian Defense and we are discussing a Bible conference that he
and Pastor Downing are both speaking at along with others.
This is the Christian Warfare Conference which is being held at Christ Bible Church
in Dublin California on Saturday September 24th and Sunday September
25th.
And for more details on this conference go to ChristBibleChurch .org
ChristBibleChurch .org.
And by the way I want to thank my friend Timothy Oliver for informing about informing me
about this conference.
He is the founder of Christian Soldiers Ministries and Timothy Oliver's website is
JesusIsCreator .org JesusIsCreator
.org.
But it's my honor and privilege to welcome Dr. Edward Delcor for the very first time to Iron Sharpens Iron radio.
Great to have you on the air.
Brother.
Delighted to be here.
Thank you very much for inviting me.
Yes in fact I.
Have.
I don't even know if you remember this but it's kind of a humorous story.
The last time I spoke with you prior to our recent communication about this
interview I was talking to you while sitting in a barber chair in a
Turkish barbershop getting a straight razor shave and I was speaking very
disparagingly about the Muslim faith not realizing that I was sitting in a Turkish barbershop
with a straight razor to my throat.
And that of course is not mean to insult all Muslim people by any stretch of the imagination as our
mutual friend Dr. James R. White is very frequent to remind us they are not a monolithic people.
But anyway Dr. Delcor it's great to have you finally on the program and
you are founder of Department of Christian Defense if you.
Could explain what that
is.
Amen.
Well
if
you
could just
as we did with
Dr. Downing.
If you could tell us something about your own upbringing the religious atmosphere in your home
growing up how you came to Christ and how you came to.
The doctrines of sovereign grace.
Which
is a two -part
question.
Just to keep
in mind most Presbyterians who are baptized don't know
about
it
either.
It took a
while
learning
beginning
of
creation.
Well I have
a very
dear
friend
who
went.
To Columbia.
Pastor Ed Moore of North Shore Baptist Church in Bayside Queens who's a Calvinist
Baptist pastor there and has been a very close friend of mine for a long time.
I don't know if you went there at the same time or not.
You know.
I remember his
last day
morning went to Columbia.
Just an awesome article.
On John 17 3.
Wow well I will let him know that maybe it is him.
It'd be great to have you both hook up.
Now when you entered into the field
of apologetics were you already a believer in the doctrines of grace or was this.
Something
that
came
later?
It wasn't a
difficulty for years
to go
through.
But
I wasn't
educated.
That's what
most
people
say when
they came
to.
Understand the doctrines of grace.
Because as I've said before in this program I was a
Roman Catholic.
I started to attend regularly a church that was a Reformed Baptist
Church.
Although I did not know anything about John Calvin or Reformed theology.
But when I first started to get some kind of an understanding of what they were
teaching in regard to predestination I was very hostile against it.
And eventually after being handed a booklet by Chapel
Library, published by Chapel Library, a George Whitfield letter to John Wesley on election.
I read that and I initially my reaction was this is true but I
hate this.
This is horrible.
But then within about I would say about a month's time or so I just came to fall in love
with the teaching of God's sovereign grace.
And
it was almost
like
being
born
again
again.
Now if
my memory serves me
right.
You were a champion arm wrestler weren't you?
Oh that's right that's what it was.
The
power
team.
Well
you
know
something
I may
have been
in the
audience
at
one.
Of your events.
But it actually would have been in the late 80s.
I don't know if you were in the group in the late 80s.
But I was at the time.
I was at the time dating my very first Christian girlfriend.
And she was a member of Jerry Falwell's church.
And she was a teacher at Jerry Falwell's elementary school.
She was a graduate of Liberty Baptist University.
And I was visiting her there in Lynchburg Virginia.
And they had the power team there.
So I don't know if you were in there in the late 80s.
But that's about when I would have been there.
Okay.
No I don't remember that.
And to be perfectly honest I remember since I was from a Reformed Baptist
Church we never did anything like that.
We never had events like that.
And to me it was the atmosphere was a little bit carnivalish.
Right.
Yeah
well
the last time
I can
recall
having my
head put
through
eight.
Feet of ice was when I was under church discipline in the dead of winter.
Well we have a
very important conference coming up.
The Christian Warfare as we were discussing with Dr. William Downing before you came on.
And once again this is going to be held at the Christ Bible Church in Dublin California.
And their website is ChristBibleChurch .org.
ChristBibleChurch .org.
And before I forget I wanted to thank a member of the Christ
Bible Church there in Dublin California who created a really wonderful graphic
that we have posted on Facebook and that we've been emailing around.
He designed this without my knowledge and I was very pleasantly surprised to
see this graphic created by Peter Sarkis.
I hope I'm pronouncing his name correctly but thank you Peter for doing such a wonderful job with this beautiful
graphic.
But this is a very important subject because the
world surrounding us is becoming more overtly
in enmity with God whereas you know and obviously for
centuries the majority of the world has always been.
I mean even since the the dawn of time.
But it's becoming more overt and perhaps more
politically powerful at least in the United States than than it has before.
And of course that in some ways has more of a positive side that we as Christians
overlook because our enemy is more easily seen.
Whereas you know in a different type of atmosphere the enemy is all around us in
the pews next to us and we might not even really notice it.
But if you could comment on the danger of purely
looking and focusing on the more overt wickedness in the
world where we may have totally escape us our own.
Sin and
the
sins
in
the
church.
We're
gonna
go to our
final
break
right
now.
And if you'd like to join us on the air with a question for Edward Dalkor our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail
.com.
ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.
We do have a couple of people anxiously waiting to have their questions asked and answered
by you and if you'd like to join them with a question of your own it's ChrisArnzen at gmail
.com.
Please give us your first name city and state and country of residence if you live outside the USA.
Don't go away we're gonna be right back after these messages with Edward Dalkor and more of our discussion on the Christian
warfare.
Chris Arnzen here and I can't wait to head down to Atlanta Georgia and here's my friend Dr. James White to tell you.
Why.
Hi.
I'm James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.
I hope you join me at the G3 conference hosted by Pastor Josh Bice and Praise Mill Baptist Church at
the Georgia International Convention Center in Atlanta January 19th to the 21st in
celebration of the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation.
I'll be joined by Paul Washer, Steve Lawson, D .A. Carson, Votie Balcom, Conrad M. Bayway,
Phil Johnson, Rosaria Butterfield, Todd Friel and a host of other speakers who are dedicated to the
pillars of what G3 stands for gospel grace and glory.
For more details go to g3conference .com.
That's g3conference .com.
Thanks James.
Make sure you greet me at the.
Iron Sharpens Iron exhibit booth while you're there.
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Welcome back this.
Is Chris Arns and if you just tuned us in for the last 90 minutes we have been discussing the Christian
warfare.
Our second guest who is currently on the air until 6 p .m. Eastern Time is Dr. Edward
Delcor the founder of the Department of Christian Defense.
If you want more information about that organization go to Christian defense org
Christian defense dot o -r -g.
And we do have a listener in Mastic Beach Long Island who is
asking a follow -up question from our first hour.
He is saying is it a logical conclusion that the consequence
of evidentialism is giving the enemy the ammunition they need to
fight back.
Now we haven't established completely whether dr. Delcor is a presuppositional.
List.
But if you could comment on that in
short yes.
We show logically that the only world view that actually is logical
and
tenable
whereas
it doesn't
give will
have the power.
Christianity.
And if someone raises from
it yes yeah.
Even though I really love and consider him a modern -day hero dr.
RC Sproul he is.
At least when he co -authored a book on evidentialism and also critiquing
presuppositionalism he seemed to have that view.
And it strikes me as interesting that those who are
reformed would take an evidentialist position because it almost seems to have
an Arminian underpinning.
If you follow me that you can convince someone of the gospel you can
convince them to accept it if you show them enough evidence if you are
articulate enough and if you have enough understanding of science and other
things in this world that you if you point them to the right
information and so on they will certainly.
If they have an a right frame of mind and they are lot thinking logically they will come to the
the truth.
But obviously all men are dead in their trespasses and.
Sins
until
they're
regenerate right.
The evidence.
Yes and of course there as you.
Already said there's nothing wrong with using evidence.
In fact our mutual friend dr. James are white does that every time he's in a debate.
But if you if you not that he's using evidentialist apologetics.
He is a presuppositionalist but what I mean is when he is trying to dispel a falsehood
and bring truth to light he is providing evidence.
He's providing historical evidence he's providing biblical evidence.
He's providing what the evidence of what the.
Original Greek and Hebrew
of the
scriptures
mean
and so on.
Now
when we.
Are grappling with our loved ones and acquaintances
over the gospel and they are bringing up objection after objection which
is far better than when they are totally disinterested and
smile and nod and put up with us.
I'd rather have somebody grapple with us.
But if you take an evidentialist position on a apologetics
aren't you more prone to get caught up in rabbit trails and let people
redirect you away from the gospel because they'll be bringing up things that in a earthly sense you
cannot prove like they'll say well prove to me that.
The Bible is really God's Word and things like that.
Right right.
Not proving God because
now we're
going
we do have
a listener who seems
to have some.
Familiarity with your background.
BB in Cumberland County Pennsylvania says that I understand
that dr. del core has an expertise in the area of oneness.
Pentecostal ism.
Do you think that evangelicals are far too accepting these days of
those who deny the Trinity and look at it as a secondary or tertiary.
Matter of importance and the answer is absolutely
the past
which
teaches
nor the only reason you would not see
the reason you would
see that.
Or he is
try you a one God revealed in three persons you can't have
but their wife.
We're
talking about an ontological difference.
He's either Unitarian like the Jews.
And in
fact BB I intend to have dr. del core back on the program
for a full two hour edition of iron sharpens iron to discuss oneness
Pentecostal ism and the Trinity so we will notify you
about that when that occurs.
And here's a word of warning never accuse one of the power team's wife of being part
amphibian very dangerous.
But would you say that that.
That kind that question actually involves something that I asked dr.
Downing in the first hour that as far as the spiritual warfare that we
are involved in as Christians there is a lot of pressure on us to be overly ecumenical
because we are looking at those things that are more overtly evil in
this world as something to conquer.
And we are willing to throw doctrine and theology under the bus very often to link
arms with Roman Catholics and Mormons and others because they agree with us on social and moral
issues.
But this is a very slippery slope isn't it.
For a second talk
about
Roman
Catholic.
There's so many of
in the spiritual warfare like
and be firm in your faith.
He's just a double happy.
For not firm on our faith
we're gonna flat -out reject it.
Flat -out reject how God revealed himself
the one
true God and first.
John 520 this is the the leave it off the true God
and birth
right
after it.
We call
them many
do.
I do certainly make
believe in a God.
Why would I call when it's been a cause for witnesses.
Is long Roman Catholic.
Atheistic.
Well I do.
Because Paul says if you don't Paul defines them
as opioid as without God.
I can give these.
We have
to be careful.
Who we join of
course I'm not talking about but we'll
just have to.
Yes we do.
They.
Are a mission field they are not our brothers they are somebody that we
should be evangelizing.
But having said that do you think that there are many occasions
where we can cooperate with people who are not Christian that have a similar
cause but they we have to just be cautious on how we do this.
Like for instance every time we vote for somebody who's not a Christian we are in some sense cooperating
with a non -christian for a positive goal that we are trying to achieve in this country.
And of course other people listening in other.
Parts of the
world do
the same
thing.
Yeah in
fact
I can remember hearing
from.
Our mutual friend again James White when he was involved very actively in a
pro life group he left it.
One of the reasons was because he was forbidden to evangelize the Roman Catholics that
were protesting along with him against the abortion clinics and
so on.
And you know surrounded by people praying over rosary beads and so on
he couldn't just just stand there and say nothing.
But that's where we have to really draw the line is we can't think that as
evil and as atrocious and disgusting and satanic as
abortion is the Holocaust of unborn children.
We can't throw out the gospel in our efforts to bring about
moral.
Purity in our civilization.
And by
the way
you made the the comment about me.
Living in an area where there are far more Roman Catholics.
I actually organized debates with dr. white and Roman
Catholic opponents for over a decade and hopefully we'll be reviving debates
like that here in Carlisle Pennsylvania and perhaps we could get you out sometime to debate a oneness
Pentecostal college professor or pastor or something.
That'd be great to have you out here.
Yeah we have.
Let's see Christopher in Suffolk County Long Island New York who says you've been speaking
against ecumenism a bit on the show today but don't you think that there is
an important and biblical form of ecumenism that we should not shun where we do
work together with brothers in Christ that disagree with us even on important issues but affirm the
gospel.
Along with
us
what
do
you
think
is the most prevalent area or even several.
Prevalent areas in the modern evangelical church where we are
seriously lacking in the area of spiritual warfare being equipped for spiritual warfare
that is bringing about the decline of
biblical soundness in the.
21st century.
Pretty rapidly.
Actually you you said it you
said the reason for the decline and how why churches are getting
so it's because they don't have
a biblical integrity in terms.
Keep growing you know.
Keep growing in the faith.
Positive
reason for all believers do
you know.
To the universal church this is what we're supposed to do.
Really.
Falls in you
know it.
Fighting these
these user friendly consumer friendly messages.
And a.
For folks
powerful in his teaching of the Word of God.
That's how you come.
Become strong by the Word of God by listening to an exegetic.
Look with
Romans chapter 1.
Remember what he says in verse 15.
He says I am eager to preach
the gospel to
you.
You ask
ten
different answers.
Most Christians are.
Functionally.
Oneness.
They're fun.
Fully Catholic in their view of salvation.
Are they not.
Mm -hmm.
Functionally Catholic in their in their view of how
we grow.
That really.
Putting on the armor.
You look at these six pieces it really does have to do with.
These things.
Yeah.
Do you think that a lot of it comes from again going back to an
Arminian mindset.
And by the way I think that a lot of reformed people and reformed churches
unconsciously fall back on Arminian ideology.
When they rightly want to draw a
great number of people to Christ they wrongly think drawing them to
join your church is accomplishing that and sometimes in the quest to do
that they are changing the message to make it more appealing.
Could.
That be a big part of what you're saying is right on the head.
Is geared toward.
Are being
suffocated.
Who is
the church.
For what was the function believers.
It was not for non -believers because gospel to non
-believers get educated
so they can do the very gospel of Jesus
Christ.
Probably do more damage than good if you don't know what you're talking about when you're communicating the gospel and.
The holiness of God amen.
And if you could give our listeners some practical counsel advice.
We've been speaking a lot about the church at large being equipped for
Christian warfare but what about the individual.
How.
Some practical advice about the everyday steps in life that help
further equip us to battle the enemy.
Every day we go to work every day that we do anything recreationally every time
that we watch anything on TV or read anything in newspaper and magazines or on the Internet
there there should be some practical guidelines.
I'm not sure.
Yes I would say number one you gotta understand that this world is so.
Paul says it right.
It's not even worth
could trouble that I'm going through.
It's not even worth comparing between this and the glory.
So number one
we have
to realize we're only here for a short time.
Not even we're going to be with the
Lord.
Like Ephesians
6 demonic warfare is real.
Spiritual warfare is real.
Paul devotes almost a chapter to spiritual warfare.
And when he says put on that armor he uses the term
in duo.
In duo we need to put the the
armor on and get not only the
sword of this
teaching
Romans
8 and I'd like to call this logical bookend
because they're
beautiful
bookend.
Remove the word
to separate you from the love of God.
If you understand that nothing is able to separate
you you fell
in a particular area or you might be struggling we'll
be able to separate you from the love of God.
That means not even your lack of performance.
Nothing in all creation can separate you from the love of God.
Feel for the day of redemption
and look at the biblical or
the mighty hand of God that he may exalt anxiety on
him.
It's a participle of of means meaning the means of humbling ourselves.
And then Peter says but be sober.
Be sober in the spirit like a roaring lion
tone.
He's always he's always seeking and this
is what meaning.
He's seeking us to devour.
Firm in your faith knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethren
around the world.
We have to understand a lot of people are going through the same thing.
But Peter says recently
understand virtual warfare in
terms of the instructions given to us at a hat.
If you really thought that
it's forfeiting your justification how are you gonna live.
You're gonna wake up every day discouraged because you don't understand what justification is.
You don't understand father glorified
meaning so so
be glorified as if you're already glorified.
Amen.
And we're out of time and.
For those of you who would like more information about the conference that dr. del core is
speaking at along with a number of other people the Christ Bible Church 2016 Bible
conference on the Christian warfare go to Christ Bible Church org Christ Bible Church
org.
To go to dr. del core his website go to Christian defense org Christian defense org.
I look forward to having you back dr. del core if you could stay on the line after we go off the air so I could book you for
our interview on one is Pentecostal ism and I want everybody listening to always remember for the
rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.