September 15, 2016 Show with William Downing & Edward Dalcour on “The Christian Warfare”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio

platform on which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron so one

man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we

converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another

wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear

from you, the listener, with your own questions.

Now here's our host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, and the rest of humanity living on the

planet Earth who are listening via live streaming.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron, wishing you all a happy Thursday on

this 15th day of September 2016.

I am so delighted that I have two guests on today that I've wanted to interview for a

long time and I finally have this opportunity.

They're both going to be addressing the same topic, the Christian warfare, and for the first hour we

have on the program Dr. William Downing, Mountain Man Bill as many have called him.

He is a pastor of Sovereign Grace Baptist Church of Silicon Valley, California, and he is the author

of a number of books and the publisher of a multitude of books.

And on the second hour we have Dr. Edward Dalkor, a mutual friend of Dr.

James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries who has highly recommended Dr. Dalkor for

many years.

He is the founder of the Department of Christian Defense and he's going to be on for the second hour and they're both

promoting a Bible conference that I hope all of you who live in or near California

or who are able to get there will attend.

But first let me welcome for the very first time to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Dr. William

Downing.

Can you hear me brother?

Okay great, I thought that we might have lost connection there.

Well Brother Downing, I'm honored to have you on the program.

I have heard about you for so many years of people who love you dearly and who have been

benefited by your wisdom and knowledge.

One of the funniest stories I've ever heard about you is from my friend Pastor Dave Dykstra

who said when he was having one of his first conversations with you, you were having a

conversation about hunting which you both love and he said that you mentioned that you

are a hog hunter, a wild hog hunter, wild boar hunter and he asked what

do you use to hunt the boar and you said I use a knife and he said no

not I don't mean to butcher it I'm talking about what do you use to hunt it and he said no I hide in a tree, wait

for a boar to pass below, jump on its back and I stab it to death.

I love that story and it's actually true, you confirmed that with me and

but you've I think from our last conversation you said that you've retired from the hog hunting at least not

for now anyway.

It's no longer legal because it's

cruel and unusual

adventure.

So

in other words it's.

Legal to hunt them with a gun but not with a knife.

Would it be.

Would it be.

Illegal you to use a crossbow as well?

No it's just a knife.

Is silent.

You can hunt them with

other

means.

I took my last will.

Well first

before we even go.

Into information about the topic at hand, the Christian warfare, I want to know

something about your own personal background, your testimony of coming to Christ and then also

to coming to embrace the doctrines of Sovereign Grace.

Year 1950.

I went to my

family.

My

mother

was

in 1940.

Wow.

I

said

it

was

not

a

fundamentalist

church.

It

was

a one

night.

Wow.

I was reading philosophers.

I was trying to find sense and meaning and at age 12

fundamentalist

church is why are you

coming?

Rolling in

off the.

Now you

can get

over there.

I wanted to get rid of

life.

I know

it I can't.

He slammed

his chair

up into you.

Were

you with

a woman last

night.

January

was

an

El

Nino

year.

Fine

man.

I

loved him.

Trust

anyone

because

all the dregs of society that can't that can't make it in life end up in Bible school it seems

and so I was in Bible school the third week of Bible school.

I and the

one of

the to tell a man about the drawing of the Holy and

he said yes.

I thought that's how God drew me to himself.

John 644 is precious to me.

God drew me to himself he saved me from myself he saved me from the reigning

power.

I

looked up and said they believe this must be the only

Calvary taught the

life

of

Christ

class

dr.

teen

20s

thing

and

he

mentions 49 off

-limits.

They fuck

20 years how

seminary I

have

amen.

And

one of the

things that

sets

your

church.

Apart most Reformed Baptist churches that I am familiar with

adhere to the 1689 London Baptist Confession and some of the New Covenant theology

Calvinist Baptists adhere to the first London Confession.

Your church adheres to both.

If you could explain why and what would the difference

be.

Which has

more of

a local church take a

slightly different

remains

the

most and

that sets

us.

Now

did you

ever

reach

the point of

becoming

one of the

very

few Baptist

theonomists?

Yeah

sure.

Mike

Castle

is

a friend

of

mine from

about

1973.

He died of

cancer.

He was my

favorite

pre

when

he

died.

Yes I've

heard much

about

him

and

I.

Also knew not nearly as closely as you did but I knew R .J.

Rush Dooney.

He was a client of mine and he hosted a weekly program on the

radio station that I worked for for 15 years of New Jersey and

he.

I remember him being a very warm man and nearly every single book that I mailed to him I used to if

I liked the book and I had an extra copy because sometimes publishers supply me with

books because they want me to set up interviews with their authors and I would I would ship

off a copy to Rush Dooney and nearly every single time he would write a favorable review of it in the

Caledon report.

So it was a quite an interesting man.

Didn't agree with everything he believed by any stretch of the imagination but I I appreciated his ironic

spirit.

He was not some kind of a sectarian to an extreme

when it came to his Reconstruction at least I didn't.

Find him

to be

that way.

Yes he

had a fit to

that now.

I also

had the

pleasure of.

Meeting Dr. Greg Bonson back in the 1990s and I interviewed him

in a pastor's study at the church where he was conducting a conference and I

used a handheld recorder and interviewed Dr. Bonson and I still a little

tear runs.

Down my cheek

to this day

because I

lost the

tape.

We're gonna be

going to a.

Break right now if you'd like to join us on the air with a question for Dr. William Downing our email

address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N

-Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside

of the good old USA and I look forward to hearing from you and your questions after these messages so

don't go away we're coming right back with Dr. William Downing.

Chris Arnzen here and I can't wait to head down to Atlanta Georgia and here's my friend Dr. James.

White to tell you why.

Hi.

I'm James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

I hope you join me at the G3 conference hosted by Pastor Josh Bice and Praise Mill Baptist Church at

the Georgia International Convention Center in Atlanta January 19th to the 21st in

celebration of the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation.

I'll be joined by Paul Washer, Steve Lawson, D .A. Carson, Vody Balcom, Conrad M. Bayway,

Phil Johnson, Rosaria Butterfield, Todd Friel and a host of other speakers who are dedicated to the

pillars of what G3 stands for gospel grace and glory.

For more details go to g3conference .com that's g3 conference .com.

Thanks James.

Make sure you greet me at the Iron Sharpens Iron.

Exhibit booth while you're there.

Welcome back this is Chris Arnzen if you just tuned us in we have a wonderful two hours

waiting for you actually about 90 minutes now with two guests who are both speaking at the same conference.

We have for the first hour with a half hour to go Dr. William Downing of Sovereign

Grace Baptist Church of Silicon Valley California and coming up in our second hour we have Dr. Edward

Delcor the founder of Department of Christian Defense.

Our theme is the same as the upcoming conference the Christian Warfare and that's

going to be held in Dublin California at the Christ

Bible Church and for more information about that conference go to

christbiblechurch .org christbiblechurch .org.

And some of the speakers are the aforementioned Dr. William Downing who's on my program today.

Jeff Rose of Jeremiah Cry Ministries a really powerful brother in the Lord.

Dr. Edward Delcor as we already mentioned who's coming up on the second hour of the program.

Dr. Paul Nelson who is the author of Presuppositionalism

and this is a book that I just received not long ago from our brother on the phone right now Dr. William

Downing mailed it to me.

Presuppositionalism a biblical approach to apologetics and

this was published by Sovereign Grace Baptist Church with their PIRS publishing

ministry which stands for Pacific Institute of Religious Studies.

And also speaking is Pastor Tony Okoro and I'm

probably mispronouncing that name Pastor Leo Galanza jr. and

Pastor Joe Jackowitz who is the pastor of Christ Bible Church in Dublin

California and I apologize for any to anyone whose name I mispronounced and once again

the the website to go to for more details on this conference which is being held Saturday the 24th of

September and Sunday the 25th of September.

For more details go to christbiblechurch .org christbiblechurch .org.

And let's go to one of our listeners here who has a question

is the most referred to passage in relation to Christian warfare.

Ephesians chapter 6 the armor of God.

Well that's an excellent question.

Let me read that passage in Ephesians chapter 6 verses

10 through 18 finally be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might put on the

full armor of God so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the

devil for our struggle is not against flesh and blood but against the rulers

against the powers against the world forces of this darkness against the

spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.

Therefore take up the full armor of God so that you will be able to resist in

the evil day.

And having done everything to stand firm.

Stand firm therefore having girded your loins with truth and

having put on the breastplate of righteousness and having shod your feet with

the preparation of the gospel of peace in addition to all taking up the shield of

faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.

And take the heart of salvation and the sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God

with all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit.

And with this in view be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all

the Saints.

Well Dr. Downing the question is is this the most referred to

passage when it comes to Christian warfare.

And is this where you're getting your inspiration for the conference.

Well this is what has been.

Assigned to

me and

I'm going to

and used

for.

Hmm

just

out of

curiosity

since

you.

Published the book that I mentioned by Paul s Nelson.

Presuppositional ism a biblical approach to apologetics.

I'm assuming you are a presuppositional list as opposed to an evidential list and if you could

give us a summary of the differences because obviously apologetics is a part of

spiritual warfare when we are dealing with people in the media and in literature and in

pulpits who are speaking lies that

contradict what God has taught through the inspiration of his Holy Spirit and his word.

So if you could tell us briefly about the difference between presuppositional ism and

evidential ism.

Dr. Nelson he's my associate pastor here.

Yes I will.

God willing.

Yes.

He has a PhD in chemistry he has a chemist and

he makes trigger

going cancer.

The leading

elder.

And then

when I return

from

the truth and

one

thing is in

escape have

more thoughts

that the evidential.

Oh yeah.

On the

Christian warfare.

Oh yeah.

And amen.

Now there

is a thing

that

has

become

very

popular

at least

in as a.

Buzzword or in Christian lingo as of late called

lifestyle evangelism.

Now I truly believe that a Christian's life is a very powerful

tool to spread the gospel of you know if people see

God in the way you live that's something that God can use to draw these people to

himself but isn't very often this abused where the spoken word of God and the

actual proclamation of the gospel is avoided and therefore people are just relying on the fact that

they're kind.

And generous and hospitable and charitable and so

on man was created.

And you you

shall and

you shall we

have CJ

and linen.

Hearse.

Long Island who

asks.

Are these forces of darkness demons and how much

influence do they actually have.

Over the life

of a

Christian.

Yes

that's what

I read

from.

Yes we

get a

word methodology from it.

It's it only occurs twice in the New Testament there and in

Ephesians

chapter

4

which

translated.

Have

you

have

the

power.

And I

think

that Greg

is arguments on

the

amen.

We have Arnie and

Perry County

Pennsylvania and.

He asks I am constantly pressured by many evangelical friends

to be more ecumenical with Roman Catholics and others who disagree with us on the gospel

because of the spiritual warfare that we are facing with liberalism and leftism and

pro -abortionism and pro -homosexuality and the list goes on.

What is your best advice on how to most biblically respond to

these people who think that these things that are destroying the fabric of our

culture here in America can only be fought by ecumenism with people

who stand with us.

Against

things

like

abortion

homosexuality

and

liberalism.

Yeah

when.

You when you keep referring to fundamentalism it is interesting that the fundamentalist modernist

controversy there were many thoroughgoing Calvinists involved in that like Jay Gresham

Machen and others and yet it seems that the fundamentalist movement was

hijacked by those who are enemies of the doctrines of grace.

Now that is a bit of a broad brush there because I know of

thoroughgoing fundamentalists who are Calvinist as well.

I even know some very thoroughgoing Calvinists that are landmark Baptists but

this is a sad thing and it causes me to scratch my head very often when those who

have as a pillar of what they stand for the inerrancy of scripture and

also salvation by grace through faith alone that they cannot

see that they are very often contradiction contradicting those very things with

their understanding of man's nature.

They very often come very close to non

-sacramental Romanism and their approach to things and sometimes even explain

things away that are clearly written in the Bible almost in a way that a liberal would that denies.

Inerrancy.

Yes

and of

course

that is

not

a

monolithic

group

of

people

for.

Instance I know fundamentalist Baptists that would call Bob Jones University a liberal

institution and so on.

So there are very varying differences of opinion within that

group.

But go ahead if you wanted to say so I know I was.

That's.

Okay I'm

doing a

study

now on the

scrap and we

will begin to

exceed and

every

yes

we have

Murray

in Kinross Scotland who asks.

It's very encouraging to hear.

Dr. Downing's testimony he is obviously very conscious of all that God has done for him.

Would he say that those who are more aware of God's working in their lives are often those

who are ready willing and able to put on the whole armor of God.

The more we see his hand in the past the more we trust him

for the.

Present

in

the

future

at

least

here many

of our

gather

you can't

say.

I always warn our

people.

And

then

you

put

something else

hmm.

They

don't want to.

Amen.

And I'd really like you to conclude your portion of the program today by just letting you

summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners for about three or four minutes

before we turn the mic.

Over

to dr.

Edward

Delcor

and that the

truth

amen.

And when you

say that

the.

Revival that you're speaking of is not the manufactured revival that many

fundamentalists and Pentecostals and other types of Christians will will say we are having a

revival this Sunday or what have you.

This is really a.

Manufactured

thing and

you're not

speaking about that at

all.

Are you and I.

Would urge our listeners if you missed my interview about a year ago with Jerry Johnson

about Charles Finney it is quite an eye -opener.

I mean the man was more Pelagian than Roman Catholics and in fact

Jerry Johnson brought up an interesting fact.

He said that Charles Finney was actually a monergist.

He wasn't a synergist but he was the bad kind of monergist because he believed.

Salvation was entirely in the

hands of

man.

Well I

want to

thank you so

much dr.

William Downing for being on the program and I look forward to having you back as often as you are willing and able and of

course God willing.

And the website for a Sovereign Grace Baptist Church of Silicon Valley California

is sgb CSV org sgb for Sovereign

Grace Baptist CSV for Church of Silicon Valley org

sgb CV org.

Thank you so much brother and I hope that you come back soon on the.

Program thank you talk with you and have this time great.

Well God bless and.

Coming up next is going to be after our station break dr. Edward Delcourt who is

going to continue our theme of the Christian warfare.

So don't go away we'll be right back.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arns.

And if you just tuned us in our first hour we had the privilege and honor of having

Dr. William Downing on the program for the for the very first time ever on Iron Sharpens Iron.

He is pastor of Sovereign Grace Baptist Church with Silicon Valley California and

now we have joining us Dr. Edward Delcor another brother in Christ.

I've been wanting to get on this program for many years and he is the founder of the

Department of Christian Defense and we are discussing a Bible conference that he

and Pastor Downing are both speaking at along with others.

This is the Christian Warfare Conference which is being held at Christ Bible Church

in Dublin California on Saturday September 24th and Sunday September

25th.

And for more details on this conference go to ChristBibleChurch .org

ChristBibleChurch .org.

And by the way I want to thank my friend Timothy Oliver for informing about informing me

about this conference.

He is the founder of Christian Soldiers Ministries and Timothy Oliver's website is

JesusIsCreator .org JesusIsCreator

.org.

But it's my honor and privilege to welcome Dr. Edward Delcor for the very first time to Iron Sharpens Iron radio.

Great to have you on the air.

Brother.

Delighted to be here.

Thank you very much for inviting me.

Yes in fact I.

Have.

I don't even know if you remember this but it's kind of a humorous story.

The last time I spoke with you prior to our recent communication about this

interview I was talking to you while sitting in a barber chair in a

Turkish barbershop getting a straight razor shave and I was speaking very

disparagingly about the Muslim faith not realizing that I was sitting in a Turkish barbershop

with a straight razor to my throat.

And that of course is not mean to insult all Muslim people by any stretch of the imagination as our

mutual friend Dr. James R. White is very frequent to remind us they are not a monolithic people.

But anyway Dr. Delcor it's great to have you finally on the program and

you are founder of Department of Christian Defense if you.

Could explain what that

is.

Amen.

Well

if

you

could just

as we did with

Dr. Downing.

If you could tell us something about your own upbringing the religious atmosphere in your home

growing up how you came to Christ and how you came to.

The doctrines of sovereign grace.

Which

is a two -part

question.

Just to keep

in mind most Presbyterians who are baptized don't know

about

it

either.

It took a

while

learning

beginning

of

creation.

Well I have

a very

dear

friend

who

went.

To Columbia.

Pastor Ed Moore of North Shore Baptist Church in Bayside Queens who's a Calvinist

Baptist pastor there and has been a very close friend of mine for a long time.

I don't know if you went there at the same time or not.

You know.

I remember his

last day

morning went to Columbia.

Just an awesome article.

On John 17 3.

Wow well I will let him know that maybe it is him.

It'd be great to have you both hook up.

Now when you entered into the field

of apologetics were you already a believer in the doctrines of grace or was this.

Something

that

came

later?

It wasn't a

difficulty for years

to go

through.

But

I wasn't

educated.

That's what

most

people

say when

they came

to.

Understand the doctrines of grace.

Because as I've said before in this program I was a

Roman Catholic.

I started to attend regularly a church that was a Reformed Baptist

Church.

Although I did not know anything about John Calvin or Reformed theology.

But when I first started to get some kind of an understanding of what they were

teaching in regard to predestination I was very hostile against it.

And eventually after being handed a booklet by Chapel

Library, published by Chapel Library, a George Whitfield letter to John Wesley on election.

I read that and I initially my reaction was this is true but I

hate this.

This is horrible.

But then within about I would say about a month's time or so I just came to fall in love

with the teaching of God's sovereign grace.

And

it was almost

like

being

born

again

again.

Now if

my memory serves me

right.

You were a champion arm wrestler weren't you?

Oh that's right that's what it was.

The

power

team.

Well

you

know

something

I may

have been

in the

audience

at

one.

Of your events.

But it actually would have been in the late 80s.

I don't know if you were in the group in the late 80s.

But I was at the time.

I was at the time dating my very first Christian girlfriend.

And she was a member of Jerry Falwell's church.

And she was a teacher at Jerry Falwell's elementary school.

She was a graduate of Liberty Baptist University.

And I was visiting her there in Lynchburg Virginia.

And they had the power team there.

So I don't know if you were in there in the late 80s.

But that's about when I would have been there.

Okay.

No I don't remember that.

And to be perfectly honest I remember since I was from a Reformed Baptist

Church we never did anything like that.

We never had events like that.

And to me it was the atmosphere was a little bit carnivalish.

Right.

Yeah

well

the last time

I can

recall

having my

head put

through

eight.

Feet of ice was when I was under church discipline in the dead of winter.

Well we have a

very important conference coming up.

The Christian Warfare as we were discussing with Dr. William Downing before you came on.

And once again this is going to be held at the Christ Bible Church in Dublin California.

And their website is ChristBibleChurch .org.

ChristBibleChurch .org.

And before I forget I wanted to thank a member of the Christ

Bible Church there in Dublin California who created a really wonderful graphic

that we have posted on Facebook and that we've been emailing around.

He designed this without my knowledge and I was very pleasantly surprised to

see this graphic created by Peter Sarkis.

I hope I'm pronouncing his name correctly but thank you Peter for doing such a wonderful job with this beautiful

graphic.

But this is a very important subject because the

world surrounding us is becoming more overtly

in enmity with God whereas you know and obviously for

centuries the majority of the world has always been.

I mean even since the the dawn of time.

But it's becoming more overt and perhaps more

politically powerful at least in the United States than than it has before.

And of course that in some ways has more of a positive side that we as Christians

overlook because our enemy is more easily seen.

Whereas you know in a different type of atmosphere the enemy is all around us in

the pews next to us and we might not even really notice it.

But if you could comment on the danger of purely

looking and focusing on the more overt wickedness in the

world where we may have totally escape us our own.

Sin and

the

sins

in

the

church.

We're

gonna

go to our

final

break

right

now.

And if you'd like to join us on the air with a question for Edward Dalkor our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail

.com.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

We do have a couple of people anxiously waiting to have their questions asked and answered

by you and if you'd like to join them with a question of your own it's ChrisArnzen at gmail

.com.

Please give us your first name city and state and country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Don't go away we're gonna be right back after these messages with Edward Dalkor and more of our discussion on the Christian

warfare.

Chris Arnzen here and I can't wait to head down to Atlanta Georgia and here's my friend Dr. James White to tell you.

Why.

Hi.

I'm James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

I hope you join me at the G3 conference hosted by Pastor Josh Bice and Praise Mill Baptist Church at

the Georgia International Convention Center in Atlanta January 19th to the 21st in

celebration of the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation.

I'll be joined by Paul Washer, Steve Lawson, D .A. Carson, Votie Balcom, Conrad M. Bayway,

Phil Johnson, Rosaria Butterfield, Todd Friel and a host of other speakers who are dedicated to the

pillars of what G3 stands for gospel grace and glory.

For more details go to g3conference .com.

That's g3conference .com.

Thanks James.

Make sure you greet me at the.

Iron Sharpens Iron exhibit booth while you're there.

Charles Hedden Spurgeon.

Once said give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

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Welcome back this.

Is Chris Arns and if you just tuned us in for the last 90 minutes we have been discussing the Christian

warfare.

Our second guest who is currently on the air until 6 p .m. Eastern Time is Dr. Edward

Delcor the founder of the Department of Christian Defense.

If you want more information about that organization go to Christian defense org

Christian defense dot o -r -g.

And we do have a listener in Mastic Beach Long Island who is

asking a follow -up question from our first hour.

He is saying is it a logical conclusion that the consequence

of evidentialism is giving the enemy the ammunition they need to

fight back.

Now we haven't established completely whether dr. Delcor is a presuppositional.

List.

But if you could comment on that in

short yes.

We show logically that the only world view that actually is logical

and

tenable

whereas

it doesn't

give will

have the power.

Christianity.

And if someone raises from

it yes yeah.

Even though I really love and consider him a modern -day hero dr.

RC Sproul he is.

At least when he co -authored a book on evidentialism and also critiquing

presuppositionalism he seemed to have that view.

And it strikes me as interesting that those who are

reformed would take an evidentialist position because it almost seems to have

an Arminian underpinning.

If you follow me that you can convince someone of the gospel you can

convince them to accept it if you show them enough evidence if you are

articulate enough and if you have enough understanding of science and other

things in this world that you if you point them to the right

information and so on they will certainly.

If they have an a right frame of mind and they are lot thinking logically they will come to the

the truth.

But obviously all men are dead in their trespasses and.

Sins

until

they're

regenerate right.

The evidence.

Yes and of course there as you.

Already said there's nothing wrong with using evidence.

In fact our mutual friend dr. James are white does that every time he's in a debate.

But if you if you not that he's using evidentialist apologetics.

He is a presuppositionalist but what I mean is when he is trying to dispel a falsehood

and bring truth to light he is providing evidence.

He's providing historical evidence he's providing biblical evidence.

He's providing what the evidence of what the.

Original Greek and Hebrew

of the

scriptures

mean

and so on.

Now

when we.

Are grappling with our loved ones and acquaintances

over the gospel and they are bringing up objection after objection which

is far better than when they are totally disinterested and

smile and nod and put up with us.

I'd rather have somebody grapple with us.

But if you take an evidentialist position on a apologetics

aren't you more prone to get caught up in rabbit trails and let people

redirect you away from the gospel because they'll be bringing up things that in a earthly sense you

cannot prove like they'll say well prove to me that.

The Bible is really God's Word and things like that.

Right right.

Not proving God because

now we're

going

we do have

a listener who seems

to have some.

Familiarity with your background.

BB in Cumberland County Pennsylvania says that I understand

that dr. del core has an expertise in the area of oneness.

Pentecostal ism.

Do you think that evangelicals are far too accepting these days of

those who deny the Trinity and look at it as a secondary or tertiary.

Matter of importance and the answer is absolutely

the past

which

teaches

nor the only reason you would not see

the reason you would

see that.

Or he is

try you a one God revealed in three persons you can't have

but their wife.

We're

talking about an ontological difference.

He's either Unitarian like the Jews.

And in

fact BB I intend to have dr. del core back on the program

for a full two hour edition of iron sharpens iron to discuss oneness

Pentecostal ism and the Trinity so we will notify you

about that when that occurs.

And here's a word of warning never accuse one of the power team's wife of being part

amphibian very dangerous.

But would you say that that.

That kind that question actually involves something that I asked dr.

Downing in the first hour that as far as the spiritual warfare that we

are involved in as Christians there is a lot of pressure on us to be overly ecumenical

because we are looking at those things that are more overtly evil in

this world as something to conquer.

And we are willing to throw doctrine and theology under the bus very often to link

arms with Roman Catholics and Mormons and others because they agree with us on social and moral

issues.

But this is a very slippery slope isn't it.

For a second talk

about

Roman

Catholic.

There's so many of

in the spiritual warfare like

and be firm in your faith.

He's just a double happy.

For not firm on our faith

we're gonna flat -out reject it.

Flat -out reject how God revealed himself

the one

true God and first.

John 520 this is the the leave it off the true God

and birth

right

after it.

We call

them many

do.

I do certainly make

believe in a God.

Why would I call when it's been a cause for witnesses.

Is long Roman Catholic.

Atheistic.

Well I do.

Because Paul says if you don't Paul defines them

as opioid as without God.

I can give these.

We have

to be careful.

Who we join of

course I'm not talking about but we'll

just have to.

Yes we do.

They.

Are a mission field they are not our brothers they are somebody that we

should be evangelizing.

But having said that do you think that there are many occasions

where we can cooperate with people who are not Christian that have a similar

cause but they we have to just be cautious on how we do this.

Like for instance every time we vote for somebody who's not a Christian we are in some sense cooperating

with a non -christian for a positive goal that we are trying to achieve in this country.

And of course other people listening in other.

Parts of the

world do

the same

thing.

Yeah in

fact

I can remember hearing

from.

Our mutual friend again James White when he was involved very actively in a

pro life group he left it.

One of the reasons was because he was forbidden to evangelize the Roman Catholics that

were protesting along with him against the abortion clinics and

so on.

And you know surrounded by people praying over rosary beads and so on

he couldn't just just stand there and say nothing.

But that's where we have to really draw the line is we can't think that as

evil and as atrocious and disgusting and satanic as

abortion is the Holocaust of unborn children.

We can't throw out the gospel in our efforts to bring about

moral.

Purity in our civilization.

And by

the way

you made the the comment about me.

Living in an area where there are far more Roman Catholics.

I actually organized debates with dr. white and Roman

Catholic opponents for over a decade and hopefully we'll be reviving debates

like that here in Carlisle Pennsylvania and perhaps we could get you out sometime to debate a oneness

Pentecostal college professor or pastor or something.

That'd be great to have you out here.

Yeah we have.

Let's see Christopher in Suffolk County Long Island New York who says you've been speaking

against ecumenism a bit on the show today but don't you think that there is

an important and biblical form of ecumenism that we should not shun where we do

work together with brothers in Christ that disagree with us even on important issues but affirm the

gospel.

Along with

us

what

do

you

think

is the most prevalent area or even several.

Prevalent areas in the modern evangelical church where we are

seriously lacking in the area of spiritual warfare being equipped for spiritual warfare

that is bringing about the decline of

biblical soundness in the.

21st century.

Pretty rapidly.

Actually you you said it you

said the reason for the decline and how why churches are getting

so it's because they don't have

a biblical integrity in terms.

Keep growing you know.

Keep growing in the faith.

Positive

reason for all believers do

you know.

To the universal church this is what we're supposed to do.

Really.

Falls in you

know it.

Fighting these

these user friendly consumer friendly messages.

And a.

For folks

powerful in his teaching of the Word of God.

That's how you come.

Become strong by the Word of God by listening to an exegetic.

Look with

Romans chapter 1.

Remember what he says in verse 15.

He says I am eager to preach

the gospel to

you.

You ask

ten

different answers.

Most Christians are.

Functionally.

Oneness.

They're fun.

Fully Catholic in their view of salvation.

Are they not.

Mm -hmm.

Functionally Catholic in their in their view of how

we grow.

That really.

Putting on the armor.

You look at these six pieces it really does have to do with.

These things.

Yeah.

Do you think that a lot of it comes from again going back to an

Arminian mindset.

And by the way I think that a lot of reformed people and reformed churches

unconsciously fall back on Arminian ideology.

When they rightly want to draw a

great number of people to Christ they wrongly think drawing them to

join your church is accomplishing that and sometimes in the quest to do

that they are changing the message to make it more appealing.

Could.

That be a big part of what you're saying is right on the head.

Is geared toward.

Are being

suffocated.

Who is

the church.

For what was the function believers.

It was not for non -believers because gospel to non

-believers get educated

so they can do the very gospel of Jesus

Christ.

Probably do more damage than good if you don't know what you're talking about when you're communicating the gospel and.

The holiness of God amen.

And if you could give our listeners some practical counsel advice.

We've been speaking a lot about the church at large being equipped for

Christian warfare but what about the individual.

How.

Some practical advice about the everyday steps in life that help

further equip us to battle the enemy.

Every day we go to work every day that we do anything recreationally every time

that we watch anything on TV or read anything in newspaper and magazines or on the Internet

there there should be some practical guidelines.

I'm not sure.

Yes I would say number one you gotta understand that this world is so.

Paul says it right.

It's not even worth

could trouble that I'm going through.

It's not even worth comparing between this and the glory.

So number one

we have

to realize we're only here for a short time.

Not even we're going to be with the

Lord.

Like Ephesians

6 demonic warfare is real.

Spiritual warfare is real.

Paul devotes almost a chapter to spiritual warfare.

And when he says put on that armor he uses the term

in duo.

In duo we need to put the the

armor on and get not only the

sword of this

teaching

Romans

8 and I'd like to call this logical bookend

because they're

beautiful

bookend.

Remove the word

to separate you from the love of God.

If you understand that nothing is able to separate

you you fell

in a particular area or you might be struggling we'll

be able to separate you from the love of God.

That means not even your lack of performance.

Nothing in all creation can separate you from the love of God.

Feel for the day of redemption

and look at the biblical or

the mighty hand of God that he may exalt anxiety on

him.

It's a participle of of means meaning the means of humbling ourselves.

And then Peter says but be sober.

Be sober in the spirit like a roaring lion

tone.

He's always he's always seeking and this

is what meaning.

He's seeking us to devour.

Firm in your faith knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethren

around the world.

We have to understand a lot of people are going through the same thing.

But Peter says recently

understand virtual warfare in

terms of the instructions given to us at a hat.

If you really thought that

it's forfeiting your justification how are you gonna live.

You're gonna wake up every day discouraged because you don't understand what justification is.

You don't understand father glorified

meaning so so

be glorified as if you're already glorified.

Amen.

And we're out of time and.

For those of you who would like more information about the conference that dr. del core is

speaking at along with a number of other people the Christ Bible Church 2016 Bible

conference on the Christian warfare go to Christ Bible Church org Christ Bible Church

org.

To go to dr. del core his website go to Christian defense org Christian defense org.

I look forward to having you back dr. del core if you could stay on the line after we go off the air so I could book you for

our interview on one is Pentecostal ism and I want everybody listening to always remember for the

rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.