Does An Introverted Spouse Need "Me Time"?

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Welcome to Bible Bash, where we aim to equip the saints for the works of ministry by answering the questions you're not allowed to ask.

We're your hosts, Harrison Kerrig and Pastor Tim Mullett, and today we'll answer the age -old question, does an introverted spouse need me time?

Now, as we start this episode off, Tim, what Bible verse do you have for us? Yeah, Philippians 2 -4 says that, let each of you look not only to his own interest, but also to the interest of others.

Okay, so we've got a Bible verse there that's essentially talking about selfishness versus selflessness, right?

Right. And Paul's commanding the Philippians to be selfless, not selfish, right?

Right, right. So, I mean, you do have a verse that basically assumes that individuals are going to spend their time, you know, thinking about their own interest, you know, in terms of just their autopilot.

And so it is one of those interesting verses that factors into this discussion to some degree.

Like, meaning it's not, like, the verse is not like a condemnation against pursuing self -interest at all in any way, but then it is basically saying that you're going to do that, you know, as you think about just the way you live your life, you get up in the morning, like, first things you think to do are typically going to be, like, things that relate to yourself and, you know, your desires and your quote -unquote needs.

And so, you know, this is just one of those verses which instructs Christians to orient their gaze outward and be like Jesus, take on the form of a servant.

So this is, you know, this is obviously not like a verse that is an absolute condemnation against doing anything that you want to do on your own, but it is a verse that's instructive to this kind of conversation to some degree.

So it's not like a, all right, well, Paul said this, so I can never do anything that I ever want ever again.

I can only do what other people want to do, right? I mean, yeah, he does say, let us not look, let each of you look not only to his own interests.

So the only part is, not only part is the significant portion there. So you're going to pursue self -interest.

That would be pretty, you know, pretty funny if you had, like, that wrong understanding of it and then you're like, well, hey, but I like hanging out with other people.

Right, right, right. I can't hang out with, you know, that's a selfish interest.

I can't do that. No, that's obviously not what is meant there. But so why are we, so Tim, why are we talking about this right now?

What's the significance of talking about, you know, me time, especially as it relates to your spouse?

That's a lot of, I mean, that's a question. Me time in general is just, it's an idea that people communicate on a regular basis.

And so with all these terms that are quasi -therapeutic kind of terms, what ends up happening is that, you know, the idea of me time is something that the standard person might not quite understand what's being communicated with an expression like that.

So you have just a normal idea of doing something on your own, by yourself, like that many people might construe as me time.

And then you have me time in like the therapeutic sense of, you know, narcissistic, self -focused time that's a form of therapy for you in that way.

So part of what we have to do is just talk about what we're talking about here. But you're asking why are we doing this? And I mean, this is a question that we received from a newlywed person.

And this is really just a question about marriage in general. You know, most married couples, I think, who are trying to start out marriage as Christians, they have an impulse to say, we have to do everything together at the very beginning.

So they may not know really how to structure their time in that way. So like you think about just the way that they approach this subject of marriage.

It's like, hey, we're best friends. We're in flesh. We need to do everything together. And then what ends up happening over, you know, the course of their years is that they grow accustomed to doing things apart.

And then they, you know, they can wind up being a couple who basically are living two separate lives in the same house, you know?

Yeah, all the way down to like spouses that are sleeping in different beds. Yeah, sleeping in different beds.

So part of like this kind of discussion is just a very natural discussion about, well, how do married couples spend their time?

Is there any, like, what place is there for self -interest within the context of marriage in general? So part of it is a discussion along those lines.

And then there is this psychological me -time element to this discussion also that is being smuggled into just the normal standard dynamics of marriage in general.

So if you think about what me -time is, you know, I tried to, we were talking about this online with some folks, and I tried to give the

Urban Dictionary definition of me -time. A very reputable academic source.

Yeah, but what's funny about that is that, you know, often these Urban Dictionary definitions, they do get at what people are actually communicating in a better way than your standard dictionaries do.

So the Urban Dictionary definition of me -time is quality time that self -absorbed narcissists set aside for themselves.

So then, quote, my problem, said the self -absorbed narcissist at the yoga retreat, is that I'm just too giving.

I really need to learn to know how to be a little more selfish, how to set aside a little more time, you know, me -time.

So, I mean, that does get at what you're talking about with the idea of me -time.

So I also put online this picture of a lady who's painting or whatever, and it says signs that you need some solo time.

And then, you know, they had a picture of a frowny face, says irritability, you know, lack of focus, social anxiety, loss of interest in group outings, you know, overstimulation.

That's a funny new word that we're using now. And then feeling overwhelmed, right? So, like, the idea there with me -time is it really is this therapeutic, kind of narcissistic time to where you're just feeling overwhelmed, you're feeling anxious, you're feeling stressed out, and you just need to get away from everyone and just do something on your own that you enjoy just for you.

So in that way, like, for people who are using this in the therapeutic sense, this is primarily a term that's not really just talking about just doing something by yourself.

It's talking about, like, you're stressed out and you're anxious, and everyone around you is just, like, overstimulating you and making you anxious, and you need to just get away from them in order to, you know, engage in self -care, right?

So in that way, it has a very specific kind of, quote -unquote, therapeutic meaning there.

And so a lot of people, they are stressed out, you know? So they may identify themselves as an introvert, and they may get worn down with social interactions.

They may just want to escape, you know? And so then they're talking about this not in the normal lens of, hey, yeah,

I think I'm going to go fishing, right? So, like, hey, I'm just going to go fishing. I don't think anyone would think anything weird about that.

But then if you're talking about, like, my kids are stressing me out, you know, I'm tired of being around my husband, you know, whatever, so I need to get away and, you know, engage in self -care, then something different just happened there in those two kind of stereos.

I mean, when you're saying, hey, I'm going to go fishing, you don't necessarily mean, like, hey, I'm going fishing in response to some other thing that I don't like.

You just mean, hey, no, I just plan to go fishing, so I'm just going to go fishing for a little bit. Right, right, and that's, like, the distinction that needs to be made in this kind of discussion as to what you're even talking about.

So when people are talking about me time, like, I need some me time, I need to engage in some self -care, I need some alone time or whatever, they're talking about, like, retreating from, like, stressful situations, like the stress of being around their family, you know, or their friends.

That they're supposed to love and cherish above all others. Right, so in that way, it's just, like, functionally what's happening is it's, like, an introvert way of saying

I'm sick of being around you and I need to remove myself from your presence so that I can be okay, right, because I'm just totally stressed out by being around you.

So that's a very different thing than just, you know, periodically saying, hey, yeah, I'm going to go fishing. Right.

So I don't think most people think, like, hey, I'm going to go fishing means I'm tired of being around you, wife, right?

I mean, I could definitely see situations where that was the reasoning behind it, but then, yeah, not every time someone goes fishing, it's because they're trying to escape their wife.

Right, yeah, now, if you're constantly fishing, someone might suspect that that's what's going on, right? Right, right.

Like, oh, you're going fishing again. How often do you need to fish, you know? Surely you've caught every fish now.

Yeah, so I think the issue there is with me time, like the idea of this me time, people can be using it as an escape, and there's a difference between just doing something you want to do because you want to do it, and there's a difference between that and basically just engaging in this therapeutic escape time where you're escaping from these people that you're supposed to love more than you love yourself.

And so there's some sort of discussion to be had there, and these, like, hey,

I need to get away from you all because you're just too much for me. I'm emotionally frazzled, and that may be understandable.

So, I mean, if your kids are crazy, and the

Bible says a contentious wife is better to be on the corner of a rooftop than in a home with a contentious woman, or if you're that husband who's always going fishing because you're married to a contentious wife and your kids are out of control and crazy, like, everyone can understand what's happening there as if,

I mean, you can understand that that's a reasonable response to being married to a battle axe and having kids who are just, like, not managed at all, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily a godly response, if that makes sense.

And so in the same way, like, if your kids are all stressing you out, you don't like your husband, you don't really want to be around him, he's too much, you know, you've got conflict going on in your marriage and you're doing this,

I need to get away from everyone. You know, you need to watch the kids. I'm so stressed out. You take care of them. I need to go do my me time.

Everyone may understand what's going on there, but that doesn't mean it's the same. Like, from a human perspective.

Right, right, but that doesn't mean it's godly, and then, you know, if you're going to put it like that, then

I'm just going to look at you and say, hey, whatever's happening, that isn't a need. You don't need to get away. You know, in fact, you may need to clean up the mess you made.

Yeah, you actually need to stay and start figuring out how to fix this stuff. Yeah, yeah, so a lot of this is just related to the term need.

You know, does the introverted spouse need, you know, to get away from people in order to be okay?

And I would say they don't need to. No, they'll be all right. You know, in fact, they probably need to learn how to fix all these destructive things that are going on that make it so oppressive to be around people in that way.

You know, so it seems like a lot of this conversation really revolves around the whole introvert versus extrovert kind of conversation.

So, you know, does adding that into things change your response at all?

Or what are your thoughts on the, you know, on an introvert? I mean, normally it's going to be an introvert who's saying, hey,

I need my me time, you know, because extroverts are very much about being around other people.

So, you know, an introvert saying, hey, I need my me time. That's just the way I am. I get drained when

I'm around other people, and I've just got to, like, after a while, I've just got to get away, maybe even for long periods of time before I ever go around others again.

You know, does that justify things? Or is that like, you know, or is that like, no, that's not an excuse?

Yeah, I mean, so you have different, I do think you have different temperaments there like related to introvert and extrovert.

And I typically try to put them in quotes just like I do with all these psychological terms in general, you know, personality kind of terms that I, because I just,

I think they're taking on a lot of baggage and they're doing a lot of things that people don't necessarily suspect that they're doing.

So I definitely, you know, if I were to describe myself with one of those labels, I would be an introvert all day long.

I mean, I don't, I, you know, if I'm around people nonstop all day long,

I start to get drained pretty quick and I get to a point where it's like, man, I need to,

I think to myself, man, I need some time to myself. I'm drained, I'm exhausted, you know.

So, I mean, I understand all those temptations. I understand what's being communicated. You know, I'm probably like a lot more introverted than most people actually are.

I'm probably more on the extreme end of introversion, like on the spectrum of things, like meaning, you know,

I could be around, I could be by myself for days and days and days, you know, and like just in my flesh,

I could be around myself and not even care, you know, like I would be fine because like there's a lot going on like in my brain that is sufficiently interesting to me, you know.

So, and then people, you know, like just interacting with people can be just a lot of work.

It's like, it's difficult to communicate at times and difficult to just figure out how to relate with other people.

You know, my older brother, he's very extroverted. Like, so, you know, we're polar opposites.

We're extremes in this way. Like where he just thrives on being around people. I mean, he, you know, one of the funny things about this just related to natural temperaments is that, you know,

I, just to give you an idea, like when I'm by myself, I'm listening to things. I'm trying to learn, you know,

I have things in my ear nonstop trying to learn and he calls people nonstop, you know.

Like he takes his free time to call people. I take my free time to learn, you know, like that's, I mean, I'm not saying he doesn't spend his free time to learn.

I'm just trying to say that, like, I would get stressed out. Like if I were to call people all day long and talk to people all day long,

I mean, that's like, that literally feels exhausting to me. You know, like, and so,

I mean, I understand all these temptations and I, I mean, I remember when

I was a young, when I was about to get married, I was engaged. I went and I spoke with me and my wife,

Elizabeth. We were, I would always ask, you know, relatives and godly people like advice about these kinds of things.

And, you know, one of my aunts and my uncles, I came to them and I basically said, you know, like I, I'm an, you know,

I'm a very introverted kind of person and I just get kind of worn down being around people all day long.

You know, how do you deal with that kind of thing in the context of marriage? That's what I asked him about. So how do you deal with that?

Because, you know, there's certain, like I feel like when I'm around people all day long, I get to a point where I just want to be by myself.

I just want to be alone. I just don't want to have to do it, do it anymore. You know? And I mean, it was,

I mean, the look of like horror and disgust that came over their face, like it, it truly does stick with me to this day.

You know, like they, they, they, they couldn't hide it. You know, they like, and I'm a person who can handle a lot of blunt kind of communication and they know that about me.

But I mean, they could not hide the look of horror and disgust that came on their face. And, you know, I mean, they basically just kind of looked at me and just said, you know, tell me, like people need to grow up, you know, they need to quit like leaning on these labels.

Like I'm an introvert, therefore I need to, it's okay for me to, you know, not want to be around anyone. You know, you need to grow up.

You need to quit being so selfish, you know, like marriage is a one flesh relationship. And yeah, you just, you need to get over yourself and quit thinking about all these things that you need and you, you know, you don't need and everything else.

And I mean, was it like, was it like the, was it like one of those RC Sproul? Yeah. What's the matter with you people?

It was definitely that. I mean, it was definitely that. And they were, they're polite and they're kind. And, but I mean, they had that look on their face.

Like I said, the dumbest thing that anyone's ever said in the history of the world. And I appreciated that.

I mean, their look of looks of horror and disgust, they really do stick with me to this day. Every time

I'm, every time I'm tempted to selfishly retreat and be by myself for long periods of time.

In order to be okay. I see their faces. Yeah. Those looks are like, they haunt me.

They're like a slave master's whip on my back, you know, that keeps me going and keeps me safe. But I mean, the thing is, like as a person who's just really introverted,

I've never approached marriage like that because they, you know, snap some sense into me, right? Like they, like they didn't, like if I would have given myself permission to approach marriage like that, then yeah,

I mean, I can imagine I come home from work and it's like, Hey guys, I can need some me time.

You know, I've been, I've been busy all day long. I need everyone to give me space. Just put in a hard eight hours. I need to,

I need to retreat. I need my space. Yeah. I need my space for a few hours. I need everyone to leave me alone. You know, I need,

I need everyone to get away from me. I mean, I can imagine myself doing ridiculous things like that and justifying it because I'm some kind of introvert or something like that.

But I mean, I've literally never thought that way because I understood what they were saying was like a right and that I was like, this is just kind of being stupid.

Right. And so I've never, I've never thought that way. I've never approached marriage that way. And then, you know, and one of the things

I've found is when you have a pleasant wife and you have pleasant kids to be around, it's not really all that draining.

You don't need to be away. Right. Like you don't really want to be away. You know, now when there's conflict in the home and where the kids are not, you know, act when they're acting the fool or whatever, then

I get, yeah, everyone wants to get away from that, you know, but when things are normal and calm and you have a good home dynamic that's happening, it can be like, you don't feel drained being around people you love and you care about who are kind to each other.

Which is, is that why introverts love being alone? Because they love themselves.

I mean, that's the thing. So it's like a form of self love. Yeah. Yeah. And so, I mean, I think the introverts can fight these things really hard because they've, they're leaning on this label as a kind of an all purpose excuse to sanctify any and all forms of selfishness that maybe, that God maybe wants to get rid of them, from them.

You know, so like the classic introvert is a person who feels like drained with social interactions, but feels like recharged when he's by himself.

And the classic extrovert is kind of the person who feels recharged by social interactions and, you know, can get drained by being by themselves and alone.

And so those are two temperaments. But I mean, like, theoretically, I mean, it really is only supposed to be like 30 % of people, 30 to 50 % of people are introverts and the rest are extroverts.

But then when we did this poll online about this, I mean, it was like 77 % of people were identifying as introverts.

And I just don't believe. So it's like the total inversion, basically. Yeah. I mean, I just don't believe that it's just like introverts are congregating online in Twitter and the extroverts don't go there.

You know, I mean, maybe that's true. Maybe they go, you know, maybe the extroverts are going to, you know, hang out with each other.

Maybe, maybe so. I don't know, but I just don't believe it's that high. And I mean, when I was listening to people like talk about this,

I do think that for many people, they don't have these divisions in their mind. They basically just think like,

I'm selfish. I like to do a lot of things by myself. I don't really like sacrificing for other people. So therefore

I'm an introvert, you know? So I think a lot of people are thinking about it along those lines. And particularly when like video games are introduced into the world,

I think a lot of guys will identify themselves as an introvert because they, they'd be perfectly happy to spend, you know, five days, you know, playing video games or whatever.

Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I could do that for sure. But I don't think that that means they're an introvert.

That just means that, you know, they, they have an entertainment addiction. Yeah. They're selfish.

You know, I think they're selfish. They have an entertainment addiction, you know? And so I think, so a lot of what happens with these kinds of discussions, you talk about introvert, extrovert, you know, you have a lot of introverts who will work it, you know, they'll basically use this label introvert to get themselves out of any kind of responsibility they have to do any of the things the

Bible says by appealing to this label, which they're, they're kind of using as a club to bash away any and all responsibility.

Yeah. It's like the golden calf. You can't touch it. Yeah, it really is, you know? And so, but I, I, I understand where it's coming from, like in a certain sense, because in a lot of ways, like most of your, most of extroverts are the people who often get ahead in the world in a way that introverts don't like meaning, you know, like most of your politicians are going to be extroverts.

Most of your pastors are going to be extroverts. And what can happen in church life is that you have a lot of extroverted pastors who are basically just people, people, you know, like that.

That's what they are. They're, they're, they're like, man, I want to be around people. And often they can be pretty narcissistic.

You know, they need constant affirmation, need constant approval. They need their egos stoked in a lot of ways, right?

They need people to tell them they're okay. And so they thrive on these like interacts, like social interactions because they're getting certain selfish things from them.

But then they look at, so you look out at the church and it's like a lot of your extroverted people, your mouths, and then a lot of your introverted people are more like your brains.

They're more your, like your classic introverts are more like your brains, your thinker kind of people who maybe don't have as much to say, you know, they're not like the life of the party.

They're not whatever. And so you can have a lot of extroverts who are in churches who are like leading the churches who are kind of looking at the introverts and basically saying, in order to be godly, you need to be like me, right?

You need to, you need to, you need to have like a hundred friends, friendships that you're maintaining simultaneously all at once.

Like that are all, you know, and a lot of times with like extra extroverts, they'll maintain these hundred friendships, but they're all kind of shallow.

Right. Whereas the introvert will have like five friends that are very, very deep. Right. And so then, so then the introvert can look at the extrovert and they can say,

Hey, you look very superficial to me. Right. Uh, because like all your relationships are just like, you know, that deep, you know?

So you have all these relationships, but they're not, they're not very deep. And then the, you know, the, but then the extrovert can look at the introvert and say,

Hey, you don't, you don't like anyone. Right. You don't hang out with anyone. But it's like, well, no,

I'm throwing like the introverts, like, no, I'm throwing like all of my relational energy into five people.

And you're throwing all of your relational energy into a hundred people. Right. So we're doing the same thing. It's just, we're managing it in a different way.

Um, you know, so, um, so the issue is like, you need both, obviously you need both.

And then if you have a bunch of extroverted pastors who are kind of making themselves the standard of godliness and not thinking about these natural, like tendencies, then, then introverts can kind of look at that and say,

Hey, like they push on that really hard and say, you know, I'm different, right? I'm different than you.

I'm not going to be able to be this, you know, gregarious outgoing life of the party kind of person that you are. It's just not the way

I'm made. Uh, but then what often happens though is the introverts will then in their defensiveness, sanctify a lot of bad stuff,

You know, like, like you don't ever have to share the gospel with people because you're introverted. You don't have to go to social functions because it's too stressful for you and you're overstimulated and you need a break, right?

Like, you don't, you don't have to practice the one and other commands, right? So like introverts can kind of use their label as this club to basically bash away all of, uh, biblical responsibilities that they, that would make them uncomfortable instead of realizing that, you know,

God wants to stretch them and get them, you know, to not just, you know, be inward focused, uh, you know, ignore everyone around them, let the world burn, be by yourself kind of people.

So there's, that's, so part of it is like introverts, they fight this kind of discussion really hard, a lot harder than the extroverts.

The extroverts don't care because in a lot of ways, like the, the world is built with extroverts in mind, basically.

Right. Right. And, you know, it's, I, I can look back on my life.

Um, and you know, I see a lot of the things that you're saying, and especially as it relates to marriage.

So I remember, um, uh, our other pastor here at our church, when

I was first getting married, I think he was the one that told me this. I'm, I'm pretty sure. Um, he was basically saying, you know, once you get married, you're going to realize, you know, like a hundred different ways that you're selfish and you had no clue, you know, because, because you're going from living by yourself, only having to think about, you know, like your own money, your own time.

Um, you know, like you're going to, you can do whatever you want to do. You're not really tied down by anything. You're going from that to all of a sudden you're living with another sinful person.

You know, you're both under the same roof. Um, you're having to share everything together, your money, your time, all your resources, you know, like you've got to constantly think about, um, how everything you're going to do is going to affect the other person.

And so you get married and then you realize like, you know, like you just start seeing all these things.

You're like, Oh wow. I'm only thinking about myself here right now. You know? And then, and then fast forward and you have kids

Lord willing. And, and, um, and then you really, you know, like whatever marriage was, whenever you first stepped into marriage and you saw how selfish you were, then having kids is that like on crack basically, you know, where, where like now it's not just,

Hey, I've got to think about this other person because, you know, I've committed, I've made promises to them that I want to uphold.

Now it's like, um, you know, Hey, I've got this, I've got this small little human being who, if I don't take care of them the way they need me to,

I mean, they'll die. You know, it's not just, I'm going to break promises that someone is going to die because I, I didn't take care of them the way

I needed to, uh, in a worst case scenario. Um, and so you just start seeing all these ways in which you're selfish and you, and you only ever think about yourself.

And that's kind of, in my mind, that's kind of where this discussion falls for the most part, maybe, uh, you, you know, it's like, yeah, you know,

I mean, I, I, we're, you and I were talking about this right before we started and you were asking me,

Hey, do you think you're, you were asking me if I thought I was an extrovert or an introvert. Um, and I was telling you, you know,

I'm, I'm in, I'm an extrovert, but then I could for sure, you know, just sit, I could for sure just spend five days playing video games by myself.

Um, now that, that's, that's a bit of an exaggeration because, because the minute my family leaves to go anywhere and I, and I stay at home for, you know, work or whatever, like if they go on some, some trip with the rest of our family and I stay home or something, it's normally like, even the first night,

I'm just like constantly changing what I'm doing because, and then I, I'm like, well, what am

I doing? I've like sat down for five minutes and then I got up and I went and did something else for five minutes and then

I got up and did something else. And, you know, I'm like, what's going on? It's like, Oh, I just miss my family.

That's what, like, I just wish they were here and I could hang out with them, you know? Um, but we, we actually went through this a little bit, um, dealing with the, like,

Hey, I need my me time stuff. Right. And, and I, we went through what made me realize something was going wrong was my wife and I, we're just like, we're just mad at each other a lot, you know?

And it's like, Hey, and, and I thought to myself, I was like, man, you know, I haven't really, I haven't really hung out with my wife very much lately.

And so I eventually had to go to her and say, Hey, you know, I need you to forgive me because I've been,

I've been neglecting you in the name of doing all of the, you know, extracurricular activities that I think are fun for me, you know, by my,

I've been doing them by myself or, you know, with my guy friends. Um, and I've been,

I've been neglecting you, you know, like we put the kids, we put the kids down for bed and then I, you know, go off and do my own thing.

And she came to me and essentially said the same thing. Hey, I've been neglecting you. And I've been, you know, as soon as we get the kids down for bed,

I go and I want to do this. And so I go do that by myself. And, you know, the funny thing is after we both said,

Hey, what we did was wrong. You know, we need to commit to, we need to repent of this and commit to fulfilling our vows to one another, spending our time with one another, showing our affection for one another.

And, you know, even if it means forsaking, doing the things that we would naturally want to do by ourselves.

The, the funny thing is like all of a sudden we weren't mad at each other all the time. Right. You know, and,

I mean, you know, those sort of failures on our parts, they, they didn't happen for very long.

It's not like we spent years and years and years doing that. It was really only like a few weeks probably, but then that's all it took to, you know, get us to a place where we're like mad at each other and, you know, making smart comments towards each other.

And then, and then once we confess those things to one another, once we confess, Hey, I'm just being selfish and I shouldn't,

I shouldn't have been, and I need your forgiveness. Once we did that, it was like it all dissipated immediately, essentially.

Yeah. I mean, I think I, I noticed the same kind of temptation towards me.

I mean, the first thing you were talking about was basically, um, when your family leaves, like when your family leaves, you think, oh man, well, maybe this is an opportunity to do some things

I have been wanting to do or whatever. Yeah. Responsibility. Yeah. But then even as like a person who would say,

Hey, I'm, I'm a lot more introverted than I would perceive you to be for sure.

Even, even in that way, when my family has left for whatever reason, it is kind of unsettling and weird and bizarre and hard to enjoy, you know, that time you think, oh, well maybe it'd be a nice time to get some things done.

It's like, no, it just feels weird and odd and unnatural. uh, I don't know that I even like it, you know? Yeah. It always sounds a lot better than it actually is.

Right. Right. And so I, I think, you know, related to just couple dynamics and some of the stuff that you're talking about too.

I mean, I, I think there is, um, there are tendencies that like, like a newlywed couple is gonna think, oh, we have to do everything together.

And they may feel like they're like, they may feel like it's awkward to even leave the room.

Like the, the other person is in, you know, do I need to ask permission to leave the room? Or do I have to, is it okay for me to go do something?

You know, do I have to communicate that? Do I have to let them know every time, you know? And I think as the relationship goes on,

I mean, there's not, not every relationship functions like that. Some are just like really selfish from the beginning and, you know, and all that.

But a lot of them, they do function that way. And then I think there is a momentum though, to get to where you have two empty nesters who basically just live in two separate lives kind of thing.

And like, that's, that's not good in the opposite way. So I think if you, if you think about just how these things work, you know, selfishness is the natural track that we're going to run it run under.

Right. So it's selfishness is that natural things. If you don't make any effort to fight your selfishness or put it in good practices or good habits, like you're just going to go the selfish route to where it's just like, everyone leave me alone.

I need my space, you know, go away. However you say it, you know, I just need some time to myself.

I need my me time. I need, I need, you know, everyone to remember themselves. So if you, if you think about the way that that works, that is a natural track that people run under.

And I mean, I think that's what Philippians two, four is saying is saying, let each of you look not only to his own interest, but also the interest of others, meaning you're going to have to make an intentional plan to fight that natural, those natural temptations.

So I think, you know, everyone needs to have some sort of thought put thought put into, if we just let ourself go, we're going to be running on two separate tracks or, you know, as a parent who comes home,

I need my space. I need everyone to leave me alone. You know, in a past generation, that was the guy who came at home and, you know,

I just need my time now to sit in front of the TV and stare. Right. Yeah. You know, there might be guys now who are doing that kind of thing where I need my time to come home and play my video games.

Everyone needs to leave me alone. I need some space. I'm stressed out. So, but I think what, what people need to do is they need to have some sort of intentional plan to fight these kinds of things.

And, but then that, that intentional plan to fight these things doesn't mean that it's wrong.

Like you have to do everything together. In fact, I mean, I think there's a lot of things that you need to do separately, even in the context of marriage.

Like there's a lot of things that like are helpful to spend time apart, that strategic and accomplishing certain functions and everything else.

But you're, but a lot of that should be more intentional kind of stuff. And like, like you're intentional, like you have intentional time that you're devoted to other objectives besides like the husband, wife relationship that's defined in certain ways.

So, so it's not just like a monster growing out of control. And then you also should have some sort of intentionality about, we need time together that we're planning that's intentional and specific.

Right. And so I think the more that people are thoughtful about these things and not just kind of going with their feelings.

So a lot of this discussion is about just people who are measuring, like what they're going to do based on how they feel at the moment.

Yeah. They're, they're mastered by their feelings. Yeah. They're just feelings oriented people. Right. So I feel stressed out. So I need everyone to go away and leave me alone.

It's like, no, you need to grow up, you know, like you need to get over yourself. Like you need to look not to your own interests, but also to the interests of others.

You need to quit being so feelings oriented. You need to rebuke those, you know, self -centered selfish feelings.

You need to repent of the anxiety, repent of that anxiety. You know, you don't like, like you don't need to manage that anxiety by telling everyone to go away or, you know, building a compound around yourself, retreating to your man cave, doing whatever.

That's just not the way to fix these things. Right. So I think having an intentional plan to accomplish these intentional objectives is, is a lot better than just kind of going on, making it feelings oriented.

So what about, uh, this is, um, this is, I think the last question

I have, we'll see. But, um, what about, you know, as you read through the gospels, you see moments where Jesus, he takes time to go and be by himself.

Right. Um, you know, whether that's in the garden right before, um, he's about to, he's about to hand himself over.

Um, you know, when they're, when they're out at sea and he's, he's alone sleeping, uh, underneath the, or, you know, underneath the deck of the ship they're in, uh, we see these times where he's going out to be by himself.

He sits, he sits by the well. Um, so, you know, or is, how does that affect this guy?

This conversation essentially, you know, does that mean that there is, there is some sort of space for,

I mean, if even Jesus is going and being by himself sometimes, um, to rest or, you know, whatever it is, does that mean that, you know, there is some form of, um, you know, me time that's okay?

Or is he doing something different there? Let me give a few categories that can fit into that and just talk through them all at the same time.

You know, so, so part of, part of what's happening here is when you're, you're talking about me time, you need to think about, um, the different connotations for that.

So I'm trying to criticize me time in like the therapeutic sense, like me time in a therapeutic sense of like a way to manage your anxiety and stress by isolating yourself and telling people to go away.

You know, however nicely you say it, you know, I need you to go, like, yeah, kindly leave me alone.

Honey, I love you. Uh, you're the love of my life and you're my best friend, but I really need you to remove yourself from my presence right now in order for me to be okay.

So like what, what the issue is like me time in the therapeutic quote unquote sense is just this, it's basically a way of managing stress for introverts.

So you have an introverted person who needs to manage their stress and they basically, they feeling anxious, they're feeling overstimulated, you know, is that they tell everyone to go away and then they're going to, you know, paint a picture or something, do something for them, you know, get their nails done.

It's just like, well, this is what's happening is this is like a pagan alternative to prayer.

Okay. That's what it is. It's like a pagan alternative to prayer and dependent on the spirit and trust.

Meaning like it's, it's, God wants you to handle your anxiety and stress, but not like that.

Right. So like, like meaning like when you're stressed out, you don't need to go be by yourself and color in your adult coloring book or something like that, or pet a dog or something, you know, and tell everyone to go away.

So you can just, you know, bask in your aloneness or whatever and not feel overstimulated or whatever.

So like the issue is Jesus. Yes, he was alone, but he's not being alone like that. Right. Like he was, he didn't go out into the wilderness alone in order to, you know, color in his coloring books, just do something just for him.

You know, like that, that Jesus coloring in his adult coloring book.

I mean, but that's what people were talking about with the subject. That's what they're talking about. They're talking about that kind of ridiculous things. So in a lot of ways, like this is like the adult equivalent of a safe space, like on the university, they need to be protected from all these outside people.

Like Jesus is not doing that. In fact, Jesus is not even alone. Like he, he went to go pray with the father.

Right. So that was a relational act. So, I mean, like anyone who's feeling stressed out, if they were to look at their spouse and say,

Hey, I need to go pray. I think most people would say, okay, go for it.

Right. Yeah. Go, yeah. Go pray. Like, you know, do what you need to do. Right. Right. If you need to go pray, go pray.

Yeah. Now, theoretically though, it's like, Hey, can I pray with you? Oh no, that would be far too stressful.

You know, I was like, what's wrong with you? You know, that'd be far too stressful. I mean, you know, how?

I mean, so no, I mean, that's not to say that, like there might be times where you need to pray first by yourself or whatever.

But I mean, like theoretically, I mean, it is kind of a weird thought to think, Oh, well let me go pray with you. Cause I love you.

And I, I want to be with you with this, you know, I want to pray to, you know, I mean, okay. I mean, that should be just as recharging as the other thing.

Right? Well, Tim, if we're being, if we're being honest, I've never heard of anyone say my me time is, is, you know, prayer and studying my

Bible. Yeah. But that's where, that's where like, that's like people brought that, people regularly brought that up as an objection, but that's just not what people are saying when they're saying me time.

They're not saying that kind of thing. I've never met a person who, who defaults to that as their me time.

Yeah. So like, just to give you an example of this kind of thing. I mean, there's been times where like I'm, I'm doing my,

I'm trying to prepare for a sermon or a Bible study or whatever. And I'm, I'm sitting in there trying to read some commentaries and, you know, my, my poor wife, she comes in there and she wants to spend time with me.

And, you know, every few seconds she, you know, she's sitting next to me reading her stuff while I'm doing my stuff.

And every few seconds she chit chats with me, right. And brings up small talk kind of conversation, you know, and there, there's a time where it's just like,

Hey, honey, I, I love you. I love you, honey.

I have to concentrate. I need to get this done. I can't, I, my brain doesn't work this way where it can come in and out of deep thoughts, you know, into small talk, you know, and, uh, put together this sermon outline.

I just, I can't do, I can't do that. You know, I can't, every time we go into small talk every 10 seconds, you know,

I've, I've lost my entire train of thought and I can't even get into small talk. You know, so, uh,

I just, you know, so, but that would be, that would be something that's not like me time. That's like, I have a task that I have to do that requires mental concentration that I need you to let me do.

Right. If we will, we will have all the relational time you want. As soon as I'm done with this, I'm not trying to escape you in this way.

I just have something that I can't do at simultaneously with chitchat.

I can't, you know, so, so there are things like that. You know, I mean, I, I think guy time is, it's important for men to have time with other men to do guy interest.

I mean, like men are made a certain way. Women are made a certain way. Um, like,

I mean, just an example. I mean, I like to play sports, uh, just going out and playing sports with guys or something like that pushes me in a way that playing sports with my wife would never even remotely push me, you know, at all.

It's like a very different thing to test yourself against other men than it is to, to, to have a nice game of tennis with your wife, you know, hitting the ball slowly back and forth, you know?

So, I mean, I mean, there's different people who are different ways, but I mean, I'm just trying to say that just having guy time, but that's still relational, right?

I mean, that's still relational in that way. And, um, that's not just like, Hey, I need to go have my guy time in order to get away from you.

That's just like, those are good practices to get in. Uh, you go hang out with your kids, have guy time with the kids, you know, all that kind of stuff.

So, I mean, I think, I think there's just time to say, Hey, I'm going to go, um, I'm going to go, uh,

I'm going to go in the garage and work out. You don't even have to talk about that. You know, I'm going to go work out, you know, I enjoy working out. I'm going to go work out and listen to some music or whatever people do, you know?

Uh, like, I guess most people listen to music when they work out. Um, I've been rebuked by people because I listened to sermons and stuff while I work out.

But, uh, I had a punching bag at one of, you know, at one of the churches

I was at, and I would hit that, and I would listen to Greek, you know? And they were like, How can you do that while you're working out?

I'm like, I don't know. I'm weird. but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, something going on no i just i just can't you're right all right that's weird you know but whatever you do you um because i i didn't care at the time but thinking back more and more i definitely i definitely am like an extrovert um but you know just think just thinking through hearing especially hearing some of what some of what your dispositions were it is very i can understand how it is very much like a um you know a self -centered thing to want to just spend time by yourself and you know hey i've got to just get away from everyone because it's so stressful and it gives me anxiety and you know like all these things it just it just screams like nothing nothing no part of that when i was here when i was hearing sort of the descriptions of things as i'm thinking through introverts on my you know in my head as we're talking it's like no part of that sounds like the bible really it doesn't yeah i mean i i think so i think just where people are different and that's good is that like if i i think a lot of people who are introverted are very much like thinkers and you know if you know if you really just enjoy getting by yourself and reading a book and learning and like the issue is like that can be used for the kingdom like you can use that like you can use those strengths like if you're oriented that way i mean the bible i mean the body does need like brains right right those people it does need people who spend a lot of time thinking and studying and learning and so you can harness those impulses in a good way that's going to actually benefit people but i think for a lot of people it's just becomes an end in of itself like it mean make meaning just all these self -centered pursuits they're not being leveraged for the sake of the kingdom right for the sake of serving other people they're just i want to do these for myself because that's all i enjoyed doing and don't ask me to do anything that involves other people ever right right and so so in the same way like um you know i i've had you know really i i have some very extroverted brothers and you know they've often i mean they just collect friends like i mean it's crazy how many friends they collect and i don't i don't know how they do this like they just have so many friendships that they're uh collecting you know as far as this goes but i mean they would often like you know my younger brother in particular like he would he would get friends and then you know he would he would have a certain relationship with me and with them and then he would get me involved and be like hey uh you talk to him about that he'll go deep with you on that kind of topic right and so they've kind of used me in different ways to like use my introverted tendencies in order to help people you know to and so i think introverts shouldn't fight that and they should they should be willing to be used in the ways that they're gifted and take advantage of the traits that they have but then for a lot of people it is just this like self -focused narcissistic leave me alone i'm this is the way i am you know give me my space or else i'm gonna not be okay and right you know none of it's about the kingdom none of it's about other people like in any way it's just about nothing about that is christ -like right at all right yeah i mean if christ would if christ did did the same things you know if he if he um you know if he like pursued selfish interests or whatever then it'd be like well he probably would have never even came down to begin with you know he probably would have just stayed up in heaven because it's way better there you know um but but obviously that's not what he did because you know he loved us he cared for us um so so for you know people out there who are listening and tempted that way this is a moment to repent and realize that you've been living a selfish life and and we're all i mean we're you said this earlier tim but we're all hardwired to be selfish right that's the path of least resistance for us as sinful human beings is we all want to be selfish and and it just you know it looks different for different people and so we need to be aware of that and thinking through what in what ways am i selfish especially as it relates to this conversation how do i how am i spending my time you know am i purposely avoiding others because you know it just stresses me out and and i get scared and anxious and drained and whatever else then there's a there's a problem there that that needs to be repented of for sure so uh so hopefully this conversation's been helpful for you guys giving you a lot to think through um and has equipped you to apply apply these concepts to your own life um you know talk about them with others in your life your spouses your children your friends your family whoever um that's the goal with this so um we also we 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