Abortion battles in France, Alabama, and South Carolina | Ep 07

France, yeah, they're trying to influence us, but let's fight back. Let's not just say, okay, we're going to just let things go as they will.

No, that's not how our enemies approach this war. And welcome to Tearin' Down High Places.

My name's Average Joe, to my left is Pastor Jeff, and to my right is

Pastor Tim. We are going to postpone putting on what we talked about last week with different pastors' videos coming in for Red Church nominations, right?

So if you want to nominate your pastor as having a great Red Church moment, please send us a video clip, send it to podcast at CornerstoneSJ .org.

Today's topic is going to be the conflict we can't let go of, which is happening all over the world.

We're going to talk today about France, we're going to talk about South Carolina, and we're going to talk about Alabama.

So which nation state would you like to start with? Well, why don't we start over there across the pond and tell us what happened in France.

So in France, on Monday, the Supreme Court, well, whoever's in charge of their constitution, they had a vote, 780 -72, they passed and put in their constitution a new right, a right to abortion.

Like, as a constitutional right. This is huge, right? Yeah. And it really cuts to the very heart of the argument, because if you think of the 14th

Amendment, it's equal protection. After the Civil War, you can't discriminate against a group based on any identity, right?

What is the equal protection for babies in the womb? Why are they not able to be protected under the 14th

Amendment? So it should be that just as any other identity group needs to be protected like anybody else, and we can get into identity politics and all that, there shouldn't be identity politics in the first place.

But if you're going to say that this group needs to be protected based on the color of their skin or their sexuality or their gender, nationality, disability, what about the most vulnerable people group in America, which is the baby in the womb?

The equal protection clause should cover the right to life. The exact opposite of the right to kill, but the right to life, and that has to have the ability to back that up.

So some kind of punishment that goes with the protection. Because that's what the protection is, that if this mother or this doctor or this father who wants to force this girl to get an abortion, if he does that, there has to be punishment from the government to give some teeth to that idea that there's none of that.

Right, so the really heinous thing is why in the heck would France even care if they've had legal abortion in the entire country since 1972?

And yet, overwhelmingly, and this is so concerning,

I mean 780 to 72, that's a big, overwhelming... Oh wow, that's like 19%.

Yeah, so why would you think they might care? Well, you said something earlier,

I hadn't this thought, but go ahead, I think you're right. Well, I think they want to, they think the world is one big single government.

I mean, we know there are certain people that want one world government, but they don't know that these folks are trying to influence us.

Because according to the pundits that I've listened to reporting on this, other Christian news organizations, they've said that this all started heating up when

Roe v. Wade was turned over. Here in America. Here in America. So they want one world government and equal protection.

But in our society, what they're trying to do, they're seeing that the battle is for individual states now in America, and they're trying to insert themselves by making it an issue there where it's not an issue.

By and large, the populace of France is so wicked that they almost universally accept the right to kill babies.

Right? The right to kill babies. So they're trying to influence us. They're trying to influence us. And America, for the longest time, has been coddling up to evil, wicked governments all across the planet based on all sorts of evil, right?

Yeah. Whether it's one world government evil, or it's just plain old economic evil.

I've talked to people about, and I don't want to get away from abortion, but there's the cobalt mines in Africa.

The little kids that are digging up all the stuff that goes into our solar panels, or our cell phones.

And to what extent do we allow ourselves to be stained by this wickedness?

The one world government that they want to set up will have this as a centerpiece of their worldview.

That women, because it's really a feminism that kind of worships women, that desire to essentially, what is feminism?

Yeah. It seems to me that it's the desire to be a man in many ways.

Right. That to do everything a man does, and if you get pregnant, then that's going to set back your career track.

And so women want the desire to be a man, and therefore abortion is such a prominent part of that.

Another way to say that is it's a devaluing of the gifts that God has given specifically to women.

Yes. So it's a hatred for motherhood. It's a hatred for true womanhood. Yes. It's, we hate women.

Be a feminist. That's what they do. That language of the left always does. It will advocate the very thing that it sounds like it's for.

For. Yeah. So feminism is absolutely against femininity. What's uniquely feminine?

The affirmation of manhood, the receiving of masculine leadership.

That's what femininity is. And then especially what you said, bearing children. Men don't bear children.

That's uniquely feminine. Right. And so it's against all the very things it's claiming to be.

Feminism is, yeah, the word is the trick. I want to know, like in our colleges right now, is feminism even something that's questioned at all?

Or is it just, it's the zeitgeist, it's what's in the air? Is that what everybody is breathing?

Man, I think that it's easier for someone to step up and say, I support abortion, than for someone to actually stand up and fight against it at this point.

Oh yeah. I would think at the local college level. I think it's like, if you're, I think if you're a

Christian, you feel pressure to conform to the world, but you can't.

The Bible says you can't conform to the pattern of the world. You have to be renewed by the word of God. And there's just so much scripture in the word of God that commands us to support life.

Yes. So young Christians are definitely against abortion, right?

Most of them? Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's like, isn't there a scripture that says in later days people will call evil good and good evil?

I mean, killing a baby, that's evil. It's in the Ten Commandments, you know, do not kill. And so killing babies is just very, very evil, but they're thinking it's a good thing, protecting women, but like you said, we're doing women a disservice and we're doing the baby even further disservice.

Yeah. So it's a lose -lose for everyone involved. But I don't think older people, so I'm assuming younger people would be the same way.

I don't think a lot of older people tie feminism in with abortion or see the two as being, you know, two sides of the same coin.

Right. Maybe even closer to that. That analogy may not actually be that good. I think they compliment each other in an evil way. Yeah. They feed off one another.

They feed off one another. It's a scheme of the devil. The world is blind. The devil blinds the mind of unbelievers, and I think the world is blind to seeing how wrong it is, and they're not going to know unless people...

What's that verse, Joe? What verse? The verse that Jeff told you to memorize.

Oh, Daniel 11, 32. Those who know their God stand firm and take action.

Yeah. So unless we stand firm and take action, the world is just going to keep going the wrong way. But what the evangelical church by and large is doing in America is compromising, right?

So I think most evangelical churches would say, we're pro -life. But then when it comes to specifics of what that means, they'll compromise.

I got an example of that. So when I went to North Carolina, there was this old preacher, very good preacher, but he said in a sermon he was going off pro -life, you know, he's saying he's pro -life, abortion is wrong, great preaching.

But then he said, well, I'm not talking about if someone was raped, and then listed specific situations, but that's still wrong.

It's still murder. So I had spoken to him after church, and I said, you know, it's still murder.

And then he actually said, you're right. I don't even know why I said that. Wow. So he didn't say it in the second service, which is great.

Great. It was probably just the cultural pressure that he's feeling all the time. It just soaks in.

It soaks in. It comes out before he even thought it through. So even though he knew it was wrong, the pressure, I think, of him speaking and thinking it through while he was speaking, he kind of gave in to the pressure and then realized, wow,

I shouldn't have done that. It sounds to me like there was no thinking at all. It's just he heard that somewhere. It was in the back of his head.

I mean, I don't believe in a subconscious, but somewhere in his conscience, in his brain, he had heard that.

He had thought it all the way through. An unformed thought, kind of. An unformed thought. Thank you. He respected him to where he at least said, yeah,

I don't know why I said that. That was wrong. But I don't know. When he'd go back to that church, I would hope he would then apologize to the whole congregation for saying that that's okay.

Well, pastors have that James 3 responsibility. They're teachers. They have to know what they're talking about.

They can't just say something. Yeah. And if they do, they can correct, right? You know, we do make mistakes, but you have to realize the weight of speaking for God in the pulpit.

Right. So the scriptures here in Psalm 51 6, behold, I was brought forth in iniquity and in sin.

Did my mother conceive me? Speaking of the moment of conception. Yeah. A pastor should understand that theologically, the moment

Jesus was conceived in the womb, he was fully God and fully human. Right.

So to not uphold, you know, when John the Baptist is in the womb of Elizabeth and Jesus is in Mary's womb.

John leaps for joy, indicating that that he's a person, you know, and this is some supernatural thing.

It's beyond his developed brain to think through what he's experiencing. But he is a person and Jesus is fully

God and fully human in the womb. So unless we as Christians can clearly say that a baby in the womb is a person, then we're compromising.

But if you say that, that means that this person from conception deserves equal protection.

So let me set you up with that. Then, Joe, what did Alabama do that that we can celebrate?

OK, well, you can go there, but you got something else to say first. I was going to say I was just going to try and be smart and say that.

Well, John obviously had a heartbeat because he wouldn't have been able to leap. Right. Right. Yeah. Right.

It's such a great scripture. I mean, that is the word of God. Like two babies alive.

Yeah. And I think we need to know that, you know, babies are a gift from God. Yes. So, I mean, it's

I'm looking at Luke one, two, and it says that and she exclaimed with a loud cry, Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb.

Yeah. Yes. And I think makes me think of, you know, someday your grandchildren or your great grandchildren are going to find a verse and they're going to be like, now we know why that verse was in there.

Right. Yes. Because God's eternal. Yeah. And this is special to me because my fiance's name is

Mary Elizabeth. So, it's Mary and Elizabeth. Yeah. That wasn't planned, but she also does speak out on these issues because it's just a cool thing.

That's good. That's really good. That's really great. Yeah. Let's talk about Alabama. So, France is a loss for us.

Big time. It's a big loss because they're coming after us. But here's a big win.

Alabama. Alabama rules, and this was also this week, I think, rules frozen embryos are children raising questions about fertility care.

Let me give you some more detail. Alabama Supreme Court ruling that frozen embryos in test tubes should be considered children and it's, according to the

New York Times, has sent shockwaves through the world of reproductive medicine, casting doubt over fertility care for would -be parents in the state and raising complex legal questions with implications extending far beyond Alabama.

Yeah. How about that? That's well said. It does have implications because if you're saying that at the moment of conception, there's personhood.

Yes. Now, it's the 14th Amendment. Yeah. Equal protection, and that would include punishing those who destroy life.

Correct. So, if this doctor, this fertility doctor has... See, how unnatural is this, though?

Like, just to harvest eggs and sperm and just create in the laboratory and then willy -nilly just destroy these embryos.

Yeah. Like, that's like mad science kind of stuff. That was unthinkable for the first 6 ,000 years of the world's existence, and now as science is able to do it, they've just charged headlong without giving full thought to the implications of that.

But if we had a biblical worldview, then this conception that happens is sacred.

This is a human life, and to destroy it, this doctor says, oh, okay, we're not going to use this one. Destroy it.

Mm -hmm. This doctor, by due process, 14th Amendment, should be held accountable.

That's murder, and that's what no incrementalist kind of, whether Republican or Democrat in the quote -unquote pro -life movement is willing to say.

But that's the biblical point, that if this is a person, you have to protect this person's life, just like you would protect babies in the womb or even put in a test tube, the same way you protect this people of color or this sexual group or whatever.

A human life made in the image of God must be protected. That's the big thing I wanted to say today. Right, right.

Equal protection. That was on my mind. Equal protection. It's so huge. With punishment. Yeah. Otherwise, there's no protection.

And I think we can get there without the 14th Amendment, because the 14th Amendment's a very controversial amendment. It has caused so many painful, wicked things in our culture.

Because of that identity politics. You know, that's the Romans' 13th role of government, to protect life.

Yep. And we have to stand on that 100%. So, some interesting things.

I saw one meme out there that, or someone suggesting on social media, that they were now going to, because they had some frozen embryos, they were going to claim them all as tax dependents, right?

Because of their life. Which would be great. Yeah, sure. We're right ahead. I think that, for the time being, until that's addressed.

But this is the kind of thing that we really need legislation to go and define these things and define on the side of life.

Because you're not going to get around God's law. That's right. You're going to always come back to it.

It's going to catch you up. You can try to bypass it, but it's just not going to happen.

The Ten Commandments are written in stone. And people that try to break that, you know, Moses shattered them, but God gave him more tablets, right?

Right. But it's figuratively saying, you're not going to break God's law. Right. You're going to break yourself, as the people of Israel discovered when they were making idols, you know, and then they had to drink their idols, ground up and made into powder.

Yeah. Yeah, the point is, God's word, His holy law, will stand firm.

And no one's going to change that. Now, so this is going to, I see us down the road talking about more medical things over and over again as our scientists try to get creative with the blessings of science and do things from a worldview that doesn't have the fear of God at the onset.

Right. So, I mean, how dangerous is it that we have so many scientific things going on from people who don't understand that the beginning of wisdom and knowledge comes from God?

Can you see the mark of the beast coming? You know, like with the one world government and now

AI and the things they're experimenting with there, people don't understand that they're willing to tamper with the very creative order of God.

Yeah. And this kind of thing is going to lead to judgment. Yeah, so.

Yeah. I would say, you know, I do a little bit of tech out there and I'd say the AI is not as scary as they're trying to make it right now.

I mean, right now it's predictive language. Yeah. That's what it is. But what about when they try to integrate like Elon Musk is doing with some chip in the brain that would then, you know, increase intelligence and all that?

And we're going to have to talk about that. That's the medical. Yes. That's doing things with, that's just doing medical things haphazardly with no consideration of God's design.

Right. And these are all things that we're paying tax money in to support no matter how hard we try.

And we'll get, we got, we're going to go to South Carolina next. Okay. We're just going to talk about tax money. Right. But you know, driverless cars.

Do you want a driverless car? No. No. Why not? I want to be in control of driving my own car and I'd rather just trust

God to help protect me and give me the ability to drive the car. I don't want anyone else making a turn for me.

I agree. Especially, yeah. All tech breaks. Or it acts unpredictably at certain times.

Here I stand. No driverless cars. People who know their God. No, I don't know.

I mean, I use cruise control and that kind of locks you in with the lane control. Yeah, it's a little different. But you can still take back over.

Yeah. If it comes to you have to, you know, get a driverless car, I think I'll just start riding a bike. This is where you make your decision.

Yeah, I think I'd make my stand on that. I don't want to ride a driverless car. I don't think. You know, maybe if everyone else is doing it,

I'd think about it, but I'd still probably be in them. Governor Murphy has, Governor Murphy has toyed,

I don't know if he's done it or not, but he's toyed with the idea of an executive order that all vehicles will be electric by 2035.

Really? Really. So, I mean, so they're taking over the ability for us to even create our own things.

Wow. You know, so, but back to abortion. I mean, but it's all part of the same thing.

We're not going to, we're not going to control any of these other things if we can't at least say we're not going to murder innocent babies.

Amen. That's, yep. If we can't agree on that, the worldview difference, it's, it's gone completely.

Yeah. Irreconcilable. Irreconcilable. Apart. Yeah. It's already very, very apart.

It is. Yeah. Yeah. So we got one, one win, one loss. Okay. France was a loss.

I don't know what happened in South Carolina, so I'm like on the edge of my seat. All right. Here we go. Here we go in South Carolina.

South Carolina is like a tie game right now. It's still to be settled. Right. So, but in South Carolina, the state of South Carolina is trying, but hasn't been able to cut off Medicaid funding to Planned Parenthood.

A federal appeals court ruled on Tuesday that doing so would deprive Medicaid patients of their right to choose their provider.

So that ruling is a... Well, it's a loss, but I don't think it's game over. It's not game over. So there's still battling.

It's a battle. Yeah. We're in the midst of the game. So we'll, we'll put, yeah. Do these battles matter? Like, should we just like say, hey, whatever's going to be is going to be, you know, like What are we as Christians doing getting involved in these political matters?

Oh, let's just go back to... I thought you were interviewing Joe. Man, I like it. So yeah, it matters so much.

I mean... I'm just thinking what, what a lot of people think about a podcast like this and about engaging in the culture.

I'm going to say, you know, so we talk a lot about red, blue, and gray church. And I like, I like to think that at this point, anybody who's listened to more than a couple of our podcasts knows what a red, blue, or gray church is.

But in case you haven't, red blood church, a blood red church is a church that's faithful to scripture and not afraid to, to defend the spheres of government, family, and church.

That each one of those are created by God and have their own rules. And sometimes the church has to call out the government and say, you need to sit back there with your sword and do what

God said you can do. Right. Get out of our stuff, which includes things like charity and orphans and widows and...

Yep. Anyway, but they don't do that. And they should stay the heck out of medicine. Yeah.

Medicine was always a charitable institution. Oh, interesting. Yeah. And there's... Government has taken over medicine.

Completely. Completely. And there's this crazy web that's... And we saw it in 2020.

That's when my eyes were open. Yeah. And before that, I was sort of assuming like, ah, it's all... Everybody's got a good interest.

Yeah. You know, you see the snake on the pole. Yeah. It's like, you're there for healing. Medicine's a problem. Medicine's a problem.

There's a lot of doctors right now, too, who are stuck working for big hospitals.

Okay. And they've... About a decade ago, they sold their practices because there was a big paycheck.

And they're like, well, heck, why not? I don't have to be an entrepreneur doctor. I can go work for this hospital. Right. And they saw a lot of benefits.

They wanted to get away from having to deal with HIPAA regulations. They wanted to get away from having to deal with technology. They figured, heck, let someone else take the liability.

Oh, and that's the big one. The liability of malpractice insurance was huge. Okay. So now, these doctors, they're like, well, they've got plenty of money.

It's not about money. They say, well, I want to go back to practice for myself. But they can't.

Hmm. Because, for multiple reasons. One of them is the liability insurance.

If you bought St. Mercy's Hospital, or Mercy, whatever. I'm just making up a name of a hospital.

But, you know, that's a non -profit. They're exempt from a lot of the liability of malpractice.

You can't sue them. Ah. You can't sue them because of their non -profit status. Well, if they leave and go into practice for themselves, guess what happens?

What? They have to get malpractice insurance that would cover when they are going to get sued. Okay. Because they don't have that non -profit protection.

Ah. Okay, Tim. I'm starting to suspect that Average Joe is not so average.

Oh, yeah. You're going to start calling me Above Average Joe. Yeah. You're not Average Joe. You've read and studied things that most of us have not.

Wow. You're right. This is just from business. I'm a tech guy, and that's just kind of what

I know. I don't mean to flatter you, but yeah, you're doing good, man. Well, thanks. You're in the battle with us, and whether you're a pastor or a layman, so to speak, we need to be in this battle.

That was why I asked that question. Yeah. Christians, we need to realize the moment that we're at.

Yeah. The cultural moment right now where America could be lost to the one -world government that's dominated by France and Europe.

Yeah. And it's a totally different worldview. We'll talk about this another time, but the French Revolution and where they went with that to who they are now versus the

American Revolution, which was built on biblical principles coming out of the Reformation and the country that was born from that.

Yeah. We're either going to lose America to the one -world government, or America's going to have another revival, and we're going to make

America great again? Not that one. Make America Christian again? Yeah. Oh, that's a good motto.

Make America Christian again. And that's really what we're talking about. That is the point. I stole that.

I steal all my best lines. I don't have a really original one. Did you steal Average Joe? I did. No, I knew you did.

I like Above Average Joe. That's how we're going to win. You call yourself Average Joe, but we don't buy it.

Well, you know, look. The reason we got into that was because South Carolina can't cut off Medicaid funding.

Well, this Medicaid funding, it sounds like such a nice thing. Oh, we're going to give poor people medicine.

Well, that was already happening before Medicaid. All the hospitals were what?

Charity. Christian. 90 % of them. Not all of them. In fact, the first one in America wasn't.

It was right across the river in Philadelphia. Ben Franklin started it. That's what I'm trying to say. We know this.

I agree. Amen. But, you know, we've got to keep these non -profits from being tainted by the government because the government just forces us into these immoral positions.

How do we get out of these? We're going to be stuck in immoral positions. Christians aren't even going to... We're all going to have to go to Lancaster and live with the

Amish. Because we just broke out of the world. So they did the separatist thing, but we're in the world, not of it, which is why we are addressing these things.

Here's the problem, though. By and large in the culture, we're losing. Most Americans, even in Ohio, when they had a chance to take a stand against abortion, when it went back to the states after the fall of Roe v.

Wade, Ohio instead accepts abortion. And you're thinking, if Ohio doesn't take the right stand, know their

God and stand firm, we're in trouble. Well, we are in trouble because what's happening is we're in the

Northeast. So New Jersey, we're way outnumbered. You go north of us and it's like dark up there.

Everything up there is pretty well dark. There's little pockets of revival and little pockets of good churches.

You go south of us and there's some hope, especially as you get as far down as Florida, with DeSantis now outlawing

DEI, another subject. That's awesome. So there are really hopeful signs as well.

But by and large, we're losing the culture war, right? So we've got to turn that. We've got to get out and preach the gospel of Jesus Christ, get people saved, disciple them in the whole counsel of God's word, and establish people in the truth.

And now we have something to stand on. But also, there's another factor here, that most

Americans are wrong in their thinking, but they're not really thinking.

And they're like sheep that can go this way or that. So strong and active leaders on the left are going to push the bar way farther.

They'll have outsized influence. In the same way, if we have churches, just even a few, with strong active voices, we can move people beyond what you could imagine.

So that's why I think last time we celebrated when this Freedom to Read Act fell, that's because we can actually make a difference.

Even if we're in liberal New Jersey, we did that, right? France is trying to make a difference.

Hey, that makes me motivated. Right, that makes me motivated. Well said. Praise the

Lord. Well, France, yeah, they're trying to influence us, but let's fight back. Let's not just say, okay, we're going to just let things go as they will.

No, that's not how our enemies approach this war. So we mentioned the gray church and the blue church, and I think the best opportunity is to get gray churches to become red.

You want to talk about that? Well, this was your idea as far as the summit. No, actually it was

Ivan's idea. Awesome idea, Ivan. To get churches to come and join together in being red and to celebrate victories like that.

So when I mentioned Matt Maher, when he stood up about the war in Israel, and Bill Lubkin did the same thing, we'll honor this kind of thing to encourage what's right.

We're not going to go negative here because we don't want to be like negative Nancy, right? We want to keep it positive as much as possible and encourage the brethren to take a stand.

The Daniel 12 kind of thing. We want to encourage repentance. Yeah. Amen. So that's great stuff.

So yeah, so we're one -one, and we're going to see what happens in South Carolina.

We'll keep up to date on that. And yeah, I guess that's about all we got.

Do we got anything else we want to talk about this time? Nope, that's it. That's it? I think that's it, yeah.

So if you see a brother down, pick him up! What's the second part? If you see a high place, tear it down!