WWUTT 2435 Q&A The Golden Ratio, Choosing Good Music, Jimmy Swaggart's Legacy

The Podcast Intro and Listener Questions

Does the Fibonacci sequence teach us something about God? What can you do if you feel like you're being spiritually oppressed? And is there anything redeemable about Jimmy Swaggart's ministry? The answers to these questions, when we understand the text.

This is When We Understand The Text, a daily Bible commentary to help encourage your time in the Word, that we may be more like Christ Jesus. Tell your friends about our ministry at www .utt .com. Here once again is Pastor Gabe.

Thank you, Becky.

You're welcome.

Psalm 119, verse 9. How can a young man keep his way pure? By guarding it according to your word. With my whole heart I seek you. Let me not wander from your commandments. I have stored up your word in my heart that I might not sin against you.

Blessed are you, O Lord. Teach me your statutes. And that's our commitment is to the word of Christ, that we may walk in holiness and godliness in the present day. At the end of the week, we take questions from the listeners and you can send those questions to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com or send us a voicemail going to www .utt .com and click on that voicemail tab.

We missed you for about a week.

Yeah.

So I had a toothache last week.

Yes.

It was pretty bad.

Yeah.

It was.

And I decided I was just going to invest my voice and my energies in doing the sermon on Sunday and then we would pick up the Q &A basically where we left off.

Yeah.

Sorry about missing a week of podcasts. I still was, I was ahead far enough on Hear the Word of the Lord, that was still going.

On.

Yes.

Though I had to take a break here. But anyway.

Now you're like behind or right on schedule?

I don't know. It depends on how you look at it.

Fair enough.

So if that break was intentional, I'm way ahead now.

Yay!

But if it wasn't, I'm much behind. On the downside, we're not going to hit 2 ,500 episodes in the same month that we're celebrating 10 years on the air. So 2 ,500 episodes won't happen until September.

Ah, yes.

I've missed a couple of weeks this year now. That's okay.

We can continue celebrating. It's fine.

Yes.

We appreciate you so much listening to the program, your support and telling other people about it. And we love hearing from you through voicemails. This is Scott. We've played Scott a couple of times, sends us goodies in the mail.

Yes.

So a couple of weeks ago, we had mentioned something about a Bible study teacher who was having trouble swearing. So Scott had some counsel regarding those who may struggle with that themselves.

Oh, wonderful.

So here's this message from Scott.

Well, howdy to you, Pastor Gay, to Becky, your beautiful wife, and to your children. Blessings. They're in Casa Grande. This is Scott in the great Northwest where it's 74 degrees. Don't worry, we're supposed to heat up here soon.

Anyway, a question and answer from last Friday where they found a pastor with a swearing in cussing. And I've had days where, not days, just one day where for some reason I started cussing. And I found myself asking, why did I do this?

Why did I say this? And I found myself repenting of my sins, asking Jesus to forgive me, and then praying to the Holy Spirit to guide me, to humble me, be more Christ-like in my walk. And I just want to thank you guys for everything, the blessings I've received from question and answer, and especially from the Jeremiah studies.

Anyway, you all have a great day. Enjoy the Cheez Whiz. Put it on some of those Pop-Tarts, and maybe put some of that hot sauce on there. No, don't do that. You all have a wonderful day, and I'll see you in about three months.

Not that I'm coming to Casa Grande.

I am.

In about three months, I should be able to start sending some more stuff. Be blessed. I'm out of here. Scott.

We thank you so much for the goodies you send us, Scott.

Oh, it's been such a blessing.

And our kids express their appreciation, too. We're not going to let them put that Cheez Whiz on the Pop-Tarts, though.

No.

No.

You've already enjoyed some of that Cheez Whiz.

I have, yes.

Now, what did you use? What did you put it on?

We had some frozen soft pretzels, and so I heated one of those up and enjoyed it.

The Cheez Whiz was perfect for the soft pretzels.

It was perfect.

Yes.

There you go.

I love my canned cheese.

She does. I think I've talked about this before, but Becky likes cheap cheese.

I do.

So I tried to spoil her.

Yep.

When we were first married.

When we first got married, I tried to get you like a smorgasbord of exotic cheeses. I don't know that exotic is the word, but they were high-end cheeses.

Outside of my box.

Yes.

I thought, I'm going to show her a good time with a lot of great cheese.

It was quite cheesy.

Yes.

I've been cheesy in plenty of other ways beyond that, but she didn't care for it. You did not like

No, I tried to smile through it.

Yeah.

You didn't like the expensive cheeses. She wants like

And choke it down.

Velveeta, which I think is like a block of plastic cheese. So fine, I'll enjoy the expensive cheeses.

Some of our children do too.

Enjoy the cheap cheese?

Yes.

Yes, they do.

And others actually hate the cheap cheese.

It's so strange. So some of them got your genes on the cheese and others got mine.

But yes, we definitely enjoy those.

The Pop-Tarts, by the way, so Sunday morning, since Sunday is so hectic for us, we don't cook on Sunday. So we do Pop-Tarts for breakfast. That's a typical Sunday meal. The kids can grab it fast and it doesn't take up a whole bunch of breakfast time as we're getting ready for church.

I can't cook breakfast. I can't make anything on Sunday morning anyway. And then we do pizza after church, typically, because then we don't have to cook anything unless we're having a potluck at the church, which is this Sunday.

Yay!

We got potluck coming up. And let's see, what was I mentioning about the... And then Sunday night is kind of leftovers or Sunday Sundays. We make Sundays.

Sunday Sundays.

On Sunday.

Yes.

It's awesome.

So that's our Sunday routine. So, Scott, you've contributed to our breakfast on Sunday with that gift of Pop-Tarts.

Yes, with a variety.

Yeah.

And we sure appreciate that. If you want to send us a gift, you can. You can send it to the church. Anything that comes through the mail, that's where we tell you to send it. Otherwise, most of our questions come via email.

And this next email comes from Jenna. Hi, Pastor Gabe. Oh, hey, this is a math question.

Oh, okay.

And you like math.

Yes.

You're a math person.

Sure.

So when it comes to the subjects that Becky likes to teach, math is one of those. She enjoys teaching math. So here's Jenna's math question.

Okay.

I've always been curious about what's going on with the Fibonacci sequence. Do you know this?

No.

Okay. Now, nevermind. It's not a math question that Becky knows. You don't know the Fibonacci sequence?

Maybe.

The golden ratio?

No.

Okay. I know this mathematical sequence is said to appear all over, from the human face to plants, to trees, to the spirals of seashells, et cetera.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

You know what we're talking about now? I'm curious as to what your thoughts are on this in terms of how we are to understand this biblically. Did God create this sequence to illustrate his power or glory or something else?

Is this sequence even real? Are we putting emphasis on something that isn't as special as claimed? For example, the golden ratio was also coined the divine proportion by Luca Pacioli. Thank you for all you do, Jenna.

Well, this is an interesting I think this might be the first math question

I think so.

Yeah.

That we've ever had. Now, in case there's anybody who, like Becky, doesn't know what we're talking about

It took me a minute.

When you hear of Fibonacci sequence, I'm not a math person. I know what the sequence is, but I don't know how to explain it. So I pulled up this website. This gives a definition of the golden ratio. So the Fibonacci sequence, I know how to explain this one.

It's two numbers, and then the next number is added to the previous number to come up with the next number. So you start with zero and one. Zero plus one, that's one. The previous number is one. You add it to the new number, one.

So one plus one is two. Now you take the previous number, one plus two is three. Two plus three is five. Five plus three is eight. Eight plus five is 13. On and on it goes.

Okay.

So that's the Fibonacci sequence. And you can follow that on into infinity. So now for the golden ratio, and here's where I need some help describing the golden ratio. Designers everywhere should know about the golden ratio.

It is a mathematical ratio that creates aesthetically pleasing designs. Since the golden ratio exists so frequently in nature, it's not a surprise that its results are natural looking. And the golden ratio kind of works in reverse.

So whereas in the Fibonacci sequence you're increasing in numbers, the golden ratio would kind of more look at the decreasing of the pattern that is created by those ratios. So the golden ratio goes by several other names.

The divine proportion, golden mean, golden section, phi, which is the Greek letter. The golden ratio is a number that's kind of equal to 1 .618, just like pi is approximately equal to 3 .14, but not exactly.

You take a line and divide it into two parts, a long part A and a short part B. The entire length A plus B divided by A is equal to A divided by B. Are you following me?

Sure.

So think of a rectangle. And if you put a perfect square, which I guess all squares are perfect technically. So you put a square inside that rectangle, and now you have the leftover smaller rectangle off to the side.

Now put another square there, and it creates another smaller rectangle. Put another square in it, another smaller rectangle, and on and on it goes. So that's the golden ratio. And again, it's kind of decreasing in number, whereas the Fibonacci sequence is increasing in number.

Getting bigger.

Right.

But in theory, these numbers are infinite. You can increase infinitely, you can decrease infinitely, which that decreasing number never comes to zero. So the ratio means it's constantly ratioed all the way down through infinity, however small that number would be.

So how do we explain these kinds of things biblically? Well really this kind of testifies to infinity, and that God is infinite. The math itself, it is something that we kind of postulate, or we might discover.

So we see the consistency in those numbers as you follow the Fibonacci sequence out, or the golden ratio down. So we see a consistency there because God has created everything to run consistently. God created math when it comes down to it.

But we create, or we discover the mathematical laws. So think of Sir Isaac Newton who discovered gravity. Isaac Newton didn't invent gravity. He discovered it. And same with

Tested it and got the numbers.

All the different laws concerning gravity, yes. So same with when he discovered the laws of motion. We don't say that Isaac Newton invented the laws of motion, he discovered them.

Right.

Well, I mean, they base their, his work, I mean, he based his work off of other people's discoveries and fine-tuned it.

Right. And you're also talking about a man who had a fear of God. So Isaac Newton was a believer. And this man, love nature, knew that a God created this who governed over all of this, and so therefore created the laws by which all these things exist.

Yeah, God gave it order.

Right. God gave it order. And Isaac Newton is giving definition to that order. So it's kind of, in a sense, the instruction that God gives to Adam to fill the earth and subdue it. And Isaac Newton, in coming up with or discovering these different laws, and not just those laws of motion, laws of gravity, he discovered calculus, or basically invent, he did invent calculus to a certain degree.

Fair.

But all the laws that exist within calculus are defining the world as it exists mathematically. And then you also have the laws of optics. So Isaac Newton is the one who discovered that all the different colors, when put together, become white light.

So the whole thing with the prism, you can break out the light into colors or pull them all together and it creates white light. And incidentally, he discovered all of this before he was 26. So in his first 25 years of life, this guy was brilliant.

I feel very lazy.

That's right.

I know.

It's like, what did I discover before age 26?

Right.

Nothing, because Isaac Newton had already thought of all of that.

Right.

Well, there you go.

Yeah.

And he didn't think of Einstein.

Yeah.

That's right.

Fine-tuned his work.

There were other scientists that came along. Ecclesiastes 3 .11 says that God has made everything beautiful in its time.

Amen.

Also, he has put eternity into man's heart, yet so that he cannot find out what God has done from beginning to the end. So we can look at something like the Fibonacci sequence and we know that it will go on into eternity, or the golden ratio will go down into infinity.

Yet we cannot fathom like the lowest number of the golden ratio or the highest number of the Fibonacci sequence.

But we see where it starts.

Right. We can start somewhere and we can see that it just goes on, but these things testify to God being an infinite God.

Right.

So an infinite God created the finite and the limitations in which we exist, but even within these limitations, we find hints of eternality and therefore can know that there is something beyond even the limited lifespan that we live.

And so a person, even through natural revelation, can ponder these things and consider that there is something beyond just this limited experience.

Right.

And hopefully will draw them to recognizing, I'm a sinner in need of a savior. And the infinite God has provided that savior. I took a huge leap there, but you know, that's as we kind of...

Steps there.

Right.

As we follow the steps, eventually we're going to come to find the primitiveness of man, how fallen we are compared to God.

How big God is.

Yeah, right. How unholy we are and how perfect he is.

Yes.

And then the need to be reconciled to God, which has been provided by Jesus Christ.

Amen.

So, yeah, finding a biblical answer for that, Jenna, I hope that was satisfactory to you. This next one comes from Chris. He says, hey, Pastor Gabe, love the podcast. Thankful for your ministry. I was hoping to get some help with a situation that was posed to me.

A friend of mine told me about an encounter they had with a being. They were laying in bed and I've gathered from this email that this is a girl. So she was laying in bed one night and had an experience where she believed there was a being standing at the foot of her bed.

All sorts of fear and emotions and reactions that surrounded that, of course. She spoke of losing her vision. Her body felt like it was on fire, chills, et cetera. I had no earthly idea how to respond biblically to this.

I was hoping that you could point me to some scriptures and resources so that I could be more informed about stuff like this. Thank you again for your time. So this, as we've talked about before, a Christian won't be demonically possessed.

Right. But we might be oppressed by spirits. Right. Things that can haunt us and things of this nature. What to make of her experience, I don't know. I can say personally, I've never experienced anything like this before.

I've had experiences of feeling like there's another presence in the room. I have felt spiritual oppression. That's not like a demon's here and pushing on me somehow or something like that. Sure. But I have felt some sort of spiritual attack.

I felt the weight of some sense of spiritual dread. I've had that before. So however equal that might be to this, it seems like this has more physical symptoms to it, like losing vision, body felt like it was on fire, chills, things like that.

What are some solutions to this? Pray. Yeah, definitely drawn near to Christ. You know, it's kind of like what we read not long ago in Luke 11. I'm in Luke 15 now, which, by the way, I get back to that on the podcast Monday.

But in Luke chapter 11, Jesus talked about an unclean spirit. When the unclean spirit has gone out of a person, it passes through waterless places seeking rest and finding none. It says, I will return to my house from which I came.

And when it comes, it finds the house swept and put in order. Then it goes and brings seven other spirits more evil than itself. And they enter and dwell there. And the last state of that person is worse than the first.

As he said these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him, blessed is the womb that bore you and the breasts at which you nursed. But he said, blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it.

So the interesting thing regarding this unclean spirit that Jesus talks about, it finds seven other spirits more evil than itself. They come back to the person and dwell there. And the last state of that person is worse than the first.

But this comment that he makes about blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it. Then hearing God's word, being obedient to the Lord, drawing near to Christ. These are going to be our best defenses against the schemes of Satan, even when those schemes are spiritual attacks like this.

Yeah, that's true. I know whenever I get into just a state of mind where it's, you know, like you feel like you're being spiritually attacked.

Is it like a despair or an uncertainty or.

I'm more like an emotional struggle with everything going on. Like it's it's not that my day was bad. It's not that anything's going bad. It's just that my my struggle to keep to the word.

OK, what I mean? Sure.

Yeah. And pray to the Lord. I don't know what it is, but it's it's usually hits all at once, you know, and it's it's.

It's like the comment I've made when you don't feel like praying. Yeah, that's when you pray.

Right. Yes.

Right. So that sort of thing.

Yeah. Yeah. And so not little. It's huge, you know, and then in moments like that, you know, the the more I can get around the word, even if I can't I don't know if it's not really can't bring myself to pray, but like I don't think about praying as long as I'm with someone who will pray for me.

OK, then I'm hearing the word still. You know what I mean? Right. And going to church regardless.

Yeah. Being with and the fellowship.

Yes. Yeah. And listening to sermons and just being there, it fills my spirit and brings me out of.

That. So for you, Chris, it could be that you have an opportunity here to pray for your friend, to minister to her, to point her to the word that will hopefully give her some relief over whatever this is.

James chapter four says, draw near to God and he will draw near to you, resist the devil and he will flee from you. Yes. So passages like this drawing near to Christ is going to be your best resistance.

Yes. To whatever this is. I know that there are there are charismatic teachers out there will say things like, well, you just need to bind it in the name of Jesus or something like that. You could you could certainly rebuke it in the name of Jesus.

You could say something like that. But remember that Jude says Michael didn't presume to rebuke the devil when they were arguing over the body of Moses. Instead, he says, the Lord rebuke you. So even Michael, though he's more powerful than Satan, doesn't bind Satan.

It's whatever is happening here. May it be the Lord's will that is done. The Lord rebuke you. Yeah. So for us, we draw near to Christ. Satan has no power over Christ. Right. So so you draw near to the Lord and he will draw near to you.

That's the promise we have from scripture. So we'll pray for you, Chris, and pray for your friend and hope that there will be a solution there, that God will reveal something to you through his word. Amen.

Choosing Good Music and Christian Liberty

This last one comes from Jesse. Hey, Pastor Gabe, thank you for sharing your experiences and insights regarding the Christian music industry lately. It has helped me start to think critically about my own music choices.

My biggest question right now is what to do with mainstream artists who release beautiful hymn albums, but then continue to produce worldly secular music. For years, I've enjoyed Alan Jackson, Brad Paisley, even Elvis Presley's hymns.

I am not presuming to know these men's personal walks with God, but just based on the other music they release, I cannot assume they are faithful followers of Christ. Should Christians avoid listening to these albums in their private worship?

Well, I think the key thing that you that's in your question there, Jesse, is saying private worship. So most of the stuff that I've discouraged Christians getting into is the stuff that that's quite blatantly sinful, like the language and the stuff they sing about in those songs is just wicked.

We should we should not be entertained by that. So stay away from that. But then also those songs that have been put out there by heretics, such as Bethel Music, Elevation, Maverick City or Hillsong. They have said that they're putting that music out there to draw people into their teaching.

And so we should have nothing to do with that when it comes to when it comes to corporate worship, especially don't use those songs in your church. Right. Don't bring them into your congregation. You're you're singing songs that were written by heretics.

We have no fellowship with them. There are better songs out there. You don't need those. Oh, yes. But if you're in your car, it comes on the radio or it's a song you like. By the way, I came across this song recently.

I really, really like the sound and I heard it by accident. And so then I remembering a few lyrics, I pulled it up on Google, found what the song is, pulled it up on YouTube, listened to it again. And then when I'm reading the lyrics, I'm going, man, the theology in this is bad.

But the song is so catchy, I couldn't get over how catchy that song is. So for me, that's that's a private thing. Yeah. I'm not going to I'm not going to bring that into corporate worship because the theology in the song is not fit for the corporate gathering.

But for private, you know, I mean, would you call that private worship, though? I wouldn't say that is just enjoyment. Yeah, I wouldn't even say that's necessarily worship. It's just enjoyment. Yeah. Well, although there are hints in the song that are just almost there.

Yeah. So I can appreciate those lyrics and say, see, I know where this needs to go that you won't take it. And so in that sense, I can have an appreciation for it. I'm not going to mention the artist, though.

I'm not going to mention the song because I don't want you to potentially listen to something and cause you to stumble. Right. But this is in that realm of what we've talked about for we've talked about before being Christian liberty.

And if you can't listen to Alan Jackson, Brad Paisley or Elvis Presley with a clear conscience, then don't listen to them.

Right. That's true.

And that would be my counsel there.

I gave my two cents about, you know, like, is it worship or is it not? Is it just enjoyment? Right. Because there's two totally different things.

Which even in our enjoyment.

Well, yes, you can. You can give praise to God for your enjoyment. Sure. Right. But I wouldn't. I don't know some of the songs that I like that I think are catchy. I don't. I don't consider that worship like other than being thankful for good music.

Good music.

There you go. Yes, that's right. Just like we're thankful for good food. You can be thankful for good music. Yes. Well, we thank you, everybody, for either writing into the program or sending us a voicemail.

And don't forget, you can go online to the website and do that. W .W .U .T .T. Dotcom. This is a production of Providence Reformed Baptist Church here in Casa Grande, Arizona. And you can find out more info about our church going to Providence Casa Grande dotcom in the second half of the program.

For those of you listening to the podcast, I've got another half hour coming up. I'm going to be responding to questions or comments that came that came in on the most recent what video I did on Jimmy Swaggart.

If you listen on the radio, you've got to look up the podcast to hear it. God bless you guys. We'll talk to you next week. On July 1st, twenty twenty five, televangelist, pastor and recording artist Jimmy Swaggart died at the age of 90.

Swaggart was once as big as Billy Graham, holding massive crusades across America and around the world. He owned a television network, founded a Bible college, wrote more than 50 books and sold over 15 million gospel music albums.

It's my job to carry out the great commission of Jesus Christ, to take the gospel to the whole world. And that's exactly what I'm trying to do. I'm not a charlatan. I'm not a fake. I'm honest.

No, Jimmy Swaggart was a complete hypocrite. In 1988, Swaggart was caught with a prostitute at a hotel in a New Orleans suburb. On February 21st, he delivered his infamous I have sinned speech to his church in Baton Rouge, broadcast on live television.

I have sinned against you, my Lord, and I would ask that your precious would wash and cleanse every stain.

It may have been the most watched sermon on television in history as his services were reaching over 500 million people in one hundred and forty five countries. He gave no details as to what sin he had committed.

But the world soon heard Swaggart is stepping down from his powerful TV ministry while the Assembly of God Church investigates him for having an affair with a prostitute. The Assemblies of God defrocked him as an ordained minister.

So Swaggart became an independent Pentecostal and remained pastor of his church, the Family Worship Center. Then on October 11th, 1991, Swaggart was caught again with a prostitute, this time in Indio, California.

But instead of confessing, he told his Louisiana church, the Lord told me it's flat, none of your business. Then four years later, he was pulled over by police while cruising a prostitution district just a few miles from his church.

Swaggart was pastor of the Family Worship Center for 70 years until his death. His ministry was celebrated by President Donald Trump and fellow televangelist hacks like Jesse Duplantis, Kenneth Copeland and Benny Hinn.

The Apostle Peter warned many will follow their sensuality and because of them, the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed, they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle and their destruction is not asleep.

Learn from these charlatans what is said in Numbers 32, 23. Be sure your sin will find you out. Turn to Jesus Christ for forgiveness when we understand the text. That is the newest What video that was posted on Wednesday, July 2nd, after Swaggart died on July 1st.

And you can find the video on YouTube searching for the death of Jimmy Swaggart. How will he be remembered? That's the title that I put it under. Or just go to our YouTube channel, WWU T .T. Let me come back to that passage that's there at the end of the video.

This is 2nd Peter, chapter two. But I'll start here in verse one. But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

And many will follow their sensuality. And because of them, the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed, they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle and their destruction is not asleep.

And I do believe that passage describes a man like Jimmy Swaggart and other teachers in his camp who may not have died yet, but they will have to answer before God for the charlatans that they were. Swaggart committed sexual immorality in the 80s and the 90s, at least as far as we know, those were the occasions in which he sinned, those times that he got caught.