Why Christians are Shifting Their View of MLK

Introduction and Why MLK's Legacy Is Being Reconsidered

Hey everyone, we're live on the conversations that matter podcast today. It's a snowy day where I am. I am actually watching the snow out my window right now come down. It's actually debatable. Is it snow or is it sleet?

It kind of goes back and forth because we're right at that around. I think 30 degrees or so so it kind of like jumps.

But.

It's not the kind of day you want to go out in I'll put it that way if it's a little colder it's not as bad if it's warmer, it's rain and obviously it's not as bad, but It's right when it's on the edge that you really don't want to go out.

So Actually, I was supposed to meet up with a patron today for lunch and we had to cancel because of it. So Playing it safe. I used to not Have the luxury of doing that because I drove for a living for so many years I was part of my job at least and so it didn't matter what the conditions were generally I mean there is it was very rare that I would be Allowed to not go into work and so I'm grateful to be able to sit here and do this podcast today instead and Get a couple other things done some some writing some by the way I should say if you are subscribed to truth script Tuesday That's gonna be later this evening.

I'm gonna put that out there as well. So you get two in one day. That's how it goes, but you can't get two in one day unless you're subscribed. So you got to go to Whether that's iTunes or Spotify or wherever you subscribe to audio podcasts or if it's on YouTube.

You got to go to the YouTube channel for truth script and subscribe there. Yeah, thank you Elijah. Elijah says congrats on the baby and Appreciate the prayers. Thank you. Yes, it's been difficult a little bit the last few months for my family.

But that definitely gives us some hope and so we're appreciate should of that. Just a few comments before I start this is gonna be a long one, I think because I I want to get into Really MLK social and political views more than anything else his legacy.

Why I'm gonna make an argument for why I don't think we should revere him the way that it seems like typically in the last few decades, he's been revered even in conservative circles and And I've done this kind of thing before in a way I've exposed some of the things that MLK Did moral failings bad theology that kind of thing?

I'm not gonna do that as much. I really want to get into the substance of his views. I think that's where the battle is right now to be honest. And I think the narrative is shifting both on the left and on the right, but more so I think on the right I think that we are at the precipice of starting to go the other way on MLK.

And actually bringing back some of these critiques of MLK that existed 40 50 years ago. That were put to death after the MLK holiday Became mainstream and was passed and all of that but there were senators.

I mean there are people who objected Jesse Helms was one of them and He had good reason for it. And you know, some of it was ties to communism and communists and things like this I'm not gonna get into so much those things.

There's a whole Cottage industry on Connecting people to Marxists right good like Glenn Beck's chalkboard and I'm not gonna do that. I'm not saying it's not worthwhile to make connections, but I really want to get into the meat of this.

So that's what we're gonna do a few questions though and comments here. Oh Jessica 1993 says Virgil Walker just did a short piece on this on the g3 channel. He also did a deep dive on there Just thinking pot that's fantastic podcast by the way, and I want to say to Virgil Walker's credit despite whatever disagreements he has with me and Whatever disagreements I might have with him about the way he's handled the Christian nationalist stuff.

I.

Did see that piece and I thought that it I would probably go further on some things what you're gonna hear in this podcast. But I thought it was good. I thought in it's it takes courage just so you know.

It does take courage to some extent at least especially especially if you are in a in a black community.

Or.

You come from an area that's black to criticize MLK. Just not really done. It's just not done. And so I Say credit where credit is due. And I feel bad. I'm sorry Andrew. Andrew for $10 asked two questions.

And I don't know if my answers are gonna be that great. But he said you've mentioned in several videos that crew went woke. Do you know if ratio Christie also went that way. If not, I'd rather support them.

Not to the extent crew did that's for sure and I I don't believe so to be honest. My understanding is they've actually taken measures against social justice and wokeness now. I don't know the full extent of those measures.

I think people like Neil Shen be and.

I.

Can't remember the name of the organization now. There's an organization that it is on the tip of my tongue. Maybe it'll come to me later. But Maybe it's the Center for biblical unity. I think that's it.

I think that that's been their approach more if I'm not mistaken They may some some of them don't quote me on it may have used the Thaddeus Williams book as well. I consider all that stuff and I'm not trying to say all of its bad or anything.

And I I'm not looking at this like black and white. I I would say it is an inadequate critique though that you're gonna find from from those Organizations or people for the most part. It doesn't it doesn't really go far enough and it's it's really coming from a more liberal mindset.

That's where the critiques coming from. So but to their credit there They they have done something about it as far as I know and and again I'm probably gonna get I'm probably gonna get some emails for people in Ratio Christie saying we're against wokeness.

How dare you? I just know this because people have sent me stuff all kinds of stuff. I will say this too, though I know of crew staff who have gone to Ratio Christy and they love it and they think this is so much better than crew and at least there's room for me to exist here and I don't feel like I'm constrained all the time and They're at least taking a whack at the woke stuff into that.

I say good job. So if you're gonna support one, I would support Ratio Christy over crude hands down. Also another question for $10 from Andrew, did you ever do a video on the entire Jay Grusham nation sag?

I'm not sure what that is. His life, I don't know if there's a controversy I'm unaware of. I only have a cursory understanding of the whole thing. But Stonehouse's biography is too long. I have not read Stonehouse's biography of Machen.

I've actually never read a biography of Machen. I've read articles about me and I've read a lot of primary source stuff. Obviously his book Christianity and liberalism. I really like his speech before Congress on public education.

And I know I've read some of the critiques from more social justice angles on his apparent. At least at some point in his life. I think it was earlier in his life support for racial segregation and education.

So I don't really know I've addressed that that before in the podcast and I can't remember all the details of it. But I know but you can find it. And by the way, I should say if you want to find something you can certainly go to YouTube type in The podcast title, but if it's something that isn't in the title or tagged and it's just a because it was long podcast I said something somewhere there is a tool you can use and It's called Let's Church Let's dot Church and if you go there, there's a whole bunch of shows.

They got the dividing line. They got 80 Robles podcast. My podcast is there and you can search the transcripts and it's it's AI technology. But the gentleman who put this together just did it for free.

He just wanted people to be able to access information. And so I was a little at first I was a little reluctant. I'm not gonna lie. I was kind of like, I don't know this Skeptical a little bit of AI stuff, I guess but I was also just like I really want people searching all my transcripts.

Cuz I talk a lot on this podcast and man, I say some stuff sometimes that. Later on I think man, I shouldn't have said it that way, but you know, it's out there. So so it's a it's a helpful tool and I'll just apologize if I said something wrong, you know.

It's not a big deal. So yeah, go check it out. You could just type in Machen at Let's Church. All right. Well, okay. All right one more thing because someone did pay Earl Starbuck for $2 Asked about denying the divinity of Christ.

We'll talk about that a little bit today. Yeah, so MLK Did do that? We're not gonna get in detail on that but most of that comes from his seminary Papers and and we're not gonna get into the plagiarism stuff either.

I've all I've also covered that even I have a dream speech part of that is plagiarized. As far as we know the the Christology stuff though the more I Hesitate to say Orthodox, but the more Orthodox leaning Christians who like him.

Okay, we'll try to defend him and say well that was his earlier life and clearly You know based on little statements like I've come back to the faith of my father's and things like this. They'll say well, well, he he's was Orthodox by the end of his life.

Just like us and I think that's a bunch of baloney to be honest. It's just it's making an assumption and I'm gonna show you some things from later in his life that lead me to believe he never Changed his views on Christ.

Okay, we are going to yeah, people are putting all kinds of things in the chat about MLK. We're gonna shift though here and I I do have a sponsor. I should probably play it now. It's only a minute long.

Can I do that? Is that all right? Because I really want like stream of consciousness along with the slideshow. If you you know want to know more about MLK and a substance of what he believed and how it's being interpreted today I want this to just be a clear flow.

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And then one last thing I'm gonna put in the Comments a link. This is for patrons, but it is a link to the slideshow. I'm going to be going over today with primary source quotes from MLK and All kinds of other things.

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So check them out. They're sponsoring the podcast this month, which I appreciate. All right, well, let's get into this. I'm gonna start with a slideshow and then I'll start taking questions probably in maybe half an hour or so.

Midway through this this whole thing. How is truth script streaming this?

I.

Have access to the truth script YouTube. I'm usually the one on it. So that tells me my brother probably I don't know I think there's probably two or three people that have access. All right. Let's focus now I Want to talk about Martin Luther King jr.

And you might ask, you know, why talk about this the day after MLK Day? There's a specific reason for it and the reason for it is because I wanted to see what people were saying and I can't preemptively know what they're going to say.

So I Want to talk about the MLK of the right of the left of evangelicalism. He's a little bit like Abraham Lincoln. He's a symbol that is used by many groups they want to attach their Themselves to MLK to justify whatever cause that they're involved in.

In fact, I saw not too long ago. You had the Anti-kovat doctors the frontline doctors and they were quoting MLK all over the place and You know, what does that have to do with with their issue? Well, if you can hit your your wagon to MLK Then it justifies it morally because he's become really kind of a proto Christ figure.

He's become Almost the father of the country. He's more time is devoted to him as far as discussion and teaching and Honoring him than George Washington. I mean it even people who don't know any history in public because they've gone through the public education system.

They know about MLK, right and they only know though a version of MLK and so there's different versions floating around and I want to talk about this because I think this is why We told we're gonna talk about this.

Anyway, I mean if there weren't Versions of MLK being used to justify political things then would we even be talking about this? Probably not. So the political rights MLK is where I want to start and you saw yesterday Ron DeSantis Who got third or no second?

I guess it It was kind of close to Nikki Haley, but he did edge out a second in the Iowa caucus very distant behind Trump. But he posted before the caucus or maybe the day of the time is always right to do what is right?

Dr. Martin Luther King jr. And I think this is the way that MLK is often used by people and I'm not saying Ron DeSantis doesn't know about MLK I'm sure he knows some things but but people who don't know about MLK or know very little it's like well He's just a good guy.

Right every he just stood for the right thing. So do what's right? And so there's this sort of general MLK that that's out there that really any side can use but the right likes to use MLK. Mike Pence today.

We honor. Dr. Martin Luther King jr. An American whose faith and courage moved our nation to a more perfect Union. Dr. King inspired a movement that changed the course of American history and his example inspires us still today.

And you see a lot of this merging of MLK you saw this at the 1776 Commission. Even from the Trump administration was supposed to contradict or compete with the 1619 project this merging of MLK.

With.

Founding documents and it's like the founders a line that goes from the founders to Abraham Lincoln to MLK, right and. And it's a sacred line. And of course, I I don't buy this at all. I think that That line if it exists at all the connections aren't Connections over creating a more perfect Union or equality or you know, the kinds of things that are often assumed about it.

It's it's more. It's more of a whatever connection is there is because that you know, they happen to live in the United States and they did political Things it's pretty general. You know Abraham Lincoln you could say you could say there's connection between MLK and Abraham Lincoln, I guess in a way they both believed in a very Intrusive federal government state action and and even the meddling in social institutions and those kinds of things.

But but Lincoln's views on race are completely different than MLK and he wanted to ship the slaves back to Africa, right? So there there's this mythos that exists out there and the left used to be the ones that touted this stuff.

But now the right is touting it more there. Merging, you know MLK with the founders like it's kind of there there he was carrying on their dream Christopher Rufo Said if I were let's say Secretary of Education I would launch a civil rights investigation to every Ivy League universities discriminatory DEI and admissions policies then work with legislators to block all federal funding until they remedy the situation.

To attack MLK is Shortsighted we measure our greatest statesmen by their accomplishments within the tragic conditions of history and human nature. Whether it's the founders or dr. King a certain degree of idealization is necessary for creating a coherent national narrative.

The correct reaction to the left's noxious ideology is not to say we need racialism for the right. It's to say we recognize the realities of race but aspire to a higher standard the full expression of natural rights the subordinates.

Racial faction to the best of our nation. We're gonna get into some of these things today, but I want to say this. You can see it. You can notice a slight shift even in Christopher Rufo. He has to acknowledge now.

Well, you know, I know there's problems with MLK, but look we shouldn't attack him guys. I know there's some problems. We shouldn't attack him. Why shouldn't we attack him? Well, you know he's got some moral flaws, but What he was striving for and this is generally where conservatives go what he was striving for in the I have a dream speech is this colorblind society and in the colorblind society that there's no room for any group to Try to exert their own preference or dominance or supremacy or any of that.

We we don't even see it.

And so.

This is then also again merged with it's the full expression of natural rights. It's a liberal approach. All this is a liberal approach by the way that these natural rights that the founders believed in MLK was then applying somehow and this contradicts the DEI stuff and and I think you know, you know, I I will say that I think that there is some merit to Pointing out at times.

I think it's way overdone way overdone and and probably to our own detriment but there is merit to at times pointing out that What MLK was doing and what he stood for at least. Broadly speaking publicly because there's yeah, there's different MLK's.

Was.

In contradiction to the DEI policies of today at least on the surface. The the legend of MLK, right. Which I don't buy this at all. By the way I think that MLK would have been for the DEI stuff today.

But but I think at least the legend of MLK, which were kind of led to believe is the full MLK. That really it boils down to the letter from the Birmingham Jail and the I have a dream speech. That's all most people know that MLK.

Would.

Probably not care for the DEI policies at least in principle you would think right. So I get why people do that. I've I've even made that point before I looked back and I think was like three or four years ago I had made a you know, it was a portion of MLK's I have a dream speech and interspersed were social justice warriors in Christianity saying things That contrary they seem to contradict it.

For example MLK talks about Really his pride in the United States, you know, he's not down on the pilgrims now in other places he is kind of but maybe not the pilgrims specifically, but he he's. He's down on white people throughout history and what they've done and he sounds like a you know.

A social justice warrior from today, but at least to that speech He's saying very unifying themes and. And so then I contradict that I juxtapose it with things that social justice activists are saying and I think there's some merit there.

But again when you do that too much, what you do is you end up reinforcing MLK as a standard. He's the moral standard. He's the standard by which the nation is going to be judged. I wish the country I should say is gonna be judged.

So.

Given the amount of slides I have I need to get going here. But but there is a political right MLK. He's used as a symbol by the right Prager. You Put out a video a few years ago, but they reposted it.

So I figured out they reposted it. I'll put it out there. He said Jason Riley in this particular Kraber Krieger you video and there's this part of the transcript. King has had no real successor if black Americans were still faced with legitimate threats to civil rights such as legal discrimination or voter Disenfranchisement, it's likely that leaders of Kings caliber would have emerged to carry on the fight.

Instead what we have today are pretenders who have turned the civil rights movement into an industry if not a racket. King and other black leaders at the time spoke openly about the need for more responsible behavior.

The pretenders to Kings legacy mostly ignored this Advice preferring instead to keep the onus on whites activists who long ago abandoned Kings colorblind standard. Which was the basis for the landmark civil rights laws enacted in the 1960s tell young black Americans today that they are Victims first and foremost black activists and white progressive stress racism because it serves their own interest not because it actually improves the station of blacks, so This is a I would say the fairly standard political conservative.

It's really a neo-conservative kind of view of MLK and that MLK's work was accomplished. That's what you see in this like his work was done black people can vote now. We don't have voter disenfranchisement.

We don't have the legal discrimination that once existed. We don't have separate drinking fountains anywhere so his work is done and now there's nothing left to do and so everyone who's Trying to carry on his legacy using his name.

They're really frauds. They're just trying to build off of the momentum of what he did. But there's nothing left to be done. The job has been finished and that is really the difference between like 1776 Commission and 1619 project.

There's one of the reasons we need the 1607 project which is coming out next month premiering at Calloway Gardens in Second week of February Abbeville Institute's hosting that so if anyone wants to sign up for that I'll be there.

I'll be introducing the documentary. There's a book with it. But anyway That's that's the the difference between those two things is not that big because The 1619 project is saying there was a promise in America and we've not achieved it and the 1776 Commission is saying There's a promise at the beginning of America at a foundational level that has been achieved.

And so MLK he we achieved it. So we have the equality and there's no need for anything else, right? No, they'll and it it's just a misunderstanding of how the left works how progressives work how MLK Had he still been alive and what he was doing towards the end of his life would have even worked.

Okay, so we have we have the Civil Rights Act I should say but we we there's always more because look at the economic disparities that exist I'm okay talked about this all the time the disparities that exist and the need for all kinds of redistribution and Affirmative action programs and all that kind of thing.

So it's just ignorant of who MLK actually was. You had yesterday. These are just two I think good examples of Evangelicalism so you have I would say evangelical left Daniel Darling evangelical right John Roo.

And by the way, John Root went back and and he I saw before the podcast. He had deleted this particular tweet. And it was already in my slideshow though. So this is this is the view I guess he had yesterday morning, but he got some pushback and he deleted the tweet.

I think he's a good man I really do I mean like I've said things I disagree with too, but I think that he He fine-tuned it now and he said look I'm talking about the I have a dream speech MLK. So but but regardless Daniel Darling said Martin Luther King jr. Rightly called on America to live up to her founding ideals.

There you have it He used the language of human dignity drawn from Christianity. He saw the humanity even of those who opposed him. All right, so that's sort of evangelical left and you have evangelical, right?

You can't possibly celebrate MLK jr. Today while supporting BLM incorporated in DEI at the same time. He would be opposed to both which I don't think he would be at all. But in fact, I think that's the the road that runs through MLK.

That's where it eventually leads.

But.

But there's some truth in. Like I said at the beginning, there's there's sort of some some glimmers. There's some pieces in both of these things and It's not the full pie. They're they're slices and that's part of the problem with the way that MLK is appropriated today.

The Right, the Left, and Evangelical Appropriations of MLK

Gospel coalition put out a piece I would say this is evangelical left and it said I'll just read you. It's a prayer. So it's a prayer about I guess MLK. Let me just read for you the relevant section. Lord Jesus pondering John's vision of your gathered beloved loud praising every nation bride bride.

Ignites our longings for the day of your return. It's also a great way to remember the work of two Martin Luther's one from Germany and one from, Alabama. What's the basis upon which this imperfect countless multitude will enjoy all the perfections of eternity?

Only the gospel of grace that Martin Luther rediscovered. Okay, and then it goes it goes forward. It says Martin Luther King jr. Helped us understand that the purpose and power of your grace. Isn't just to get us into heaven, but also Get heaven into us.

So so this is sort of the utopian mindset here that you have MLK coming almost like a prophetic character. He comes and he's going to show the way forward for Christians to get heaven into us. Right. It sounds kind of profound.

I guess to certain people. I don't know. I don't know if it's that profound but It it's salvation the gospel. It's not just getting us to heaven. There's also getting heaven into us. This is immunizing of the eschaton.

It's it's to it starts off with this vision that John has every tongue tribe a nation and that's what MLK did. He was giving us that vision of all of these things together. It's gonna happen on this earth when in reality, we know that's not true.

John's vision now I take a futurist view of revelation. But John's vision is something that that is to occur and even if you don't take a futurist view of revelation. You're still gonna have to wind up with this is in heaven.

John's vision is in heaven. It's not on earth.

And.

And so there and there are certain things I mean that we pray that I will be done on earth is in heaven and of course the left takes that now to Justify every social program they have if they can somehow tie it to a heaven reality.

There's no hunger in heaven, right? So let's do you know anti-poverty programs that with the view in mind that we're gonna be successful in an ultimate sense when we're not and so.

It's.

They'll misappropriate that verse for their own agendas and Try to make it about you know, some utopian scheme and I see the gospel coalition kind of in that same vein they're trying to Find these heavenly realities and you know, I think it might have been Stephen Wolf I want to give credit where credit's due had pointed out that look they never do this on marriage.

They never say well, there's no marriage in heaven. Let's not have any marriage here. You know, they there's certain distinctions between these worlds. But that that's TGC you had the American Spectator ran a piece by Paul Kengor.

Grove City College. That's a I think they're evangelical if I'm not mistaken evangelical University the Martin Luther King jr. That liberals hate. Of course Mark Levin reposted this and it talks about King Kim Davis if people remember Kim Davis who went to jail because she refused to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples and She justified what she did partially based on what MLK did.

She was a Democrat and Martin Luther King said I would agree with st. Augustine that an unjust law is no law at all. Now what is the difference between the two? How does one determine when a law is just or unjust.

A just law is a man-made code that squares with the moral law or the law of God and unjust law is a code that is Out of harmony with the moral law to put it in the terms of st Thomas Aquinas and unjust law is a human law that is not rooted in eternal law.

And so This is also part of the king of the right. The king of the right quotes Augustine because he quoted Augustine and his letters to the Birmingham Jail a letter from bring Birmingham Jail and in that particular work He he appeals to this this understanding of human worth and Parallels that to social equality that these things are really one in the same and so any kind of social inequality Must be against human worth and because it's against human worth and you apply Augustine's Understanding of what a just and unjust law is and in this case, it must be unjust that that's the argument there and of course, I would agree with Augustine.

I think all Christians would and I think MLK knew what he was appealing to at a time when the country was much more Christian than it is now. You know people say the same about Abraham Lincoln, right.

Abraham Lincoln. There's good evidence to suggest he was probably an atheist but whether he was or not whether he was an atheist most of that's based on Herndon his Lawyer who worked with him. Whether he was or he wasn't though.

He was certainly not a pious man. There's really no evidence to indicate he was a Christian but what did he keep using in his particular speeches biblical themes because he was at a time when that carry legitimacy and I.

Think.

MLK probably did something similar as well. I mean he's there's some philosophical stuff here. But you know, we want to zone in on the Augustine, but we want to ignore his appeals to secular philosophers like Hegel or Marx or you know others so.

So this is Paul Kengor yesterday, this is all, you know fresh off the the printing press this all just happened. Christianity today surprisingly Surprisingly posted what I thought was actually a pretty decent article on MLK.

I was surprised but this gets into why I think the narrative is changing. They talk about on the 95th anniversary of Kings birth that we need to approach King with with humility. We need to realize that his story is not our own and his understanding of Christian faith was probably different from ours.

He was a man of both deep flawed and profound insights. He was not the only civil rights hero or even the best one. But he was deeply engaged with the Christian message of justice and reconciliation and there's much we have yet to learn from his life.

So this is Christianity today acknowledging. You know what? He wasn't exactly Orthodox theologically and That he had flaws. He wasn't actually the best civil rights leader. I'm a little surprised but maybe I shouldn't be and I would say this is evangelical left.

Why are they doing this? I predicted a few years ago. The me too stuff was going to come to haunt MLK eventually if the me to Movement continued they would have to there's no getting around it. They would have to acknowledge MLK and.

And perhaps that's part of what's happening here, but I think that the shift on the right was Was even more what was bigger to me? I should actually just preface it with before I get to the right I noticed Trevin wax and Kate shell nuts.

So Trevin wax from the gospel coalition. Kate shell nut for from Christianity today both reposted this. This article from Christianity today, and if you look at their previous.

Twitter.

Activity, this is not all of it. But there this is some of it on MLK. They are glowing about MLK. I mean, they love MLK. He is he is the standard. I mean, he's these. I won't read you all of them. You can go back and look at it yourself, but.

I.

Consider this a shift. This is a shift on the evangelical left that you know, we're gonna acknowledge that he's not the best. Maybe we're gonna say that he maybe he's not as much of our guy as he was.

You see on the evangelical right which is I would consider and I mean right by. I'm not saying they're like the based right or the dissident right or the. Yeah, I don't know the. There are more classical liberals I would say but but they're on the right as far as you know.

They're they're Orthodox in their theology for the most part. I think I think yeah, I have to say for the most part because of Owen Strawn mostly but and his Trinitarian ideas, but. Yeah, but but they're not on the woke side of things will say at least when it comes to you know.

The radical woke stuff. So so g3 Josh by someone strand those guys. They they also said things in the past like Josh by said MLK's dream will be fulfilled one day before God's throne. I mean, it's the same thing.

You just saw in the gospel coalition's piece. He's saying the same thing. No, Jim Crow laws racism terrorism or segregation and praise the Lamb, you know, but what's the vision before God's throne? I mean, it's it's every tribe tongue nation all of that.

Well, what does he do? He repost the article from Virgil Walker, which was a great article about MLK. And you know, basically the real MLK is not a good guy. He's bad theology. He's got a false gospel.

Owen Strawn same thing back in 2014, you know, he's grateful for MLK and. And his Pete a man who peaceably bent the world to the racial ethics of Scripture. May we work towards the same end and then he repost Virgil Walker's thing yesterday.