December 21, 2018 Show with Marcus Pittman on “Babies are Murdered Here”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your.

Own questions. Now here's our host Chris Arntzen. Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio wishing you all a happy Friday on this 21st day of December 2018, just four days away from Christmas and I am so happy to have as a guest for the very first time ever on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Marcus Pittman.

Many of our regular listeners will be familiar with that name. He is the executive producer and showrunner at Apologia Studios, creative director at Crown Rights and cinematographer known for Next Week with Jeff Durbin and How to Answer the Fool.

Today we're going to be addressing a documentary called Babies Are Murdered Here and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Marcus Pittman.

Thank you Chris, thanks for having me. Well before we go into your personal testimony of salvation which we typically do when we have a first-time guest on the program,.

Tell our listeners about Apologia Studios. So Apologia Studios was built going on four years now, April three years ago and then that was started actually because Jeff and I kind of got connected through the first Babies Are Murdered Here.

Apologia Studios, Apologia Church, and In the Portion Now

That would be Jeff Durbin for our listeners who aren't familiar with Jeff. Yeah Jeff Durbin was the pastor, is the pastor and I did the movie Babies Are Murdered Here and I sent him a preview of it and that's what started his church getting into abortion ministry and from there he asked me to come out and do video production for the church and we built the studios and we have Apologia TV and next week with Jeff Durbin, Apologia Radio and a bunch of other things.

Even you know she alerts a lot of Christian media at Apologia.

Well why don't you go through some of those things that you listed that Apologia Studios is responsible for. For instance next week with Jeff Durbin a very unique program that in fact I don't think there's anything even close to it anywhere on any in any media or on the internet.

Tell us about that. Yeah well next week is, we're changing the structure of it so that's going to be a panel show now and sort of like The View. Don't say that, that's not a good way to advertise it. A lot better than The View, a lot better than The View.

And so yeah so that's kind of a comedy show but the purpose of it really was to really create a show that has a lot of views so that we could really influence the culture on an important matter of, on the important matter of abortion.

So it talks about a lot of different issues other than abortion but the purpose of it really is let's get a big audience and a big following so that we can impact the culture and speak to things that matter.

So like the idea is essentially that we have, God's given us the gift of media, we can reach large audiences via social media at least for the time being we can and so while we have that opportunity we should create shows and content that reach a large audience so that when we speak on issues that matter a lot of people can hear it.

So it's sort of, it's sort of, that's sort of the basis of it and that's why we started next week and then there's Apologia TV and Apologia Radio as well.

And now tell us about Apologia Church and actually you know I was shocked recently because I know that Dr. James R. White, our mutual friend, has joined Apologia Church and has become the scholar-in-residence there.

That's not what I'm shocked about. I'm shocked because when he was announcing that on the dividing line I'm almost positive he pronounced it just like you guys do, Apologia Church. He didn't say Apologia this time.

Now has he changed the way he pronounces it now that he's a member just because that's the way that you guys officially pronounce it?

Yeah it's something supernatural that happens once you become a member. You start pronouncing it a certain way I guess.

And so tell us about that church.

Yeah so Apologia Church is in Tempe, Arizona. Actually we're in Mesa, Arizona now, well temporarily. So well the Tempe, Mesa, Phoenix area and I think we're up to 300 or 350 members is what I heard. And so we meet Sunday afternoons and then we have community three elders which and Zach Morgan and In the Portion Now and Apologia Studios which are two separate ministries underneath.

The Abortion Documentary and Why Its Title Matters

In the Portion Now is really the primary ministry that really acts right now in terms of saving lives and starting distinct clinic ministries all over the world. I think we're up to 300 churches now that have signed up and each one of those churches are completely independent and under the authority.

Essentially it's really great because what we do is we help churches get started and provide them training and resources and we have people on staff. So essentially once a church comes to us, we interview their elder to make sure they're doctrinal, make sure that the elder is on board and the elders are going to be actively involved in what happens and that the church is ready and prepared to, you know, or whatever the case may be.

We coach them through all those things and then once they're out there doing it, they're out there saving lives and their complete own abortion clinic ministry. So since we've started, we've had 300 churches every day.

Every day of the week there's a church from In the Portion Now that's out doing abortion clinic ministries and, you know, we kind of give them what they need and send them on their way so that they're able to do it and it's been amazing to hear, you know, how many thousands of babies are saved.

We'll never know the number now, but it's incredible. Dollar for dollar. It's the best money you can spend on the abortion clinic ministry because you're going to fund everything themselves. So we're just like a little going and then once they're out, they're taking it from there.

And it's gospel-centered. Everyone who's out there at the abortion clinic, they're preaching the gospel and making sure it's rooted in sound theology and not, you know, sign up to be a part of it and everything is solid theology.

Praise God. Well, I am just so.

Thrilled to hear the continual updates on babies that are being saved from being.

Torturously and brutally murdered in their mother's wombs. Yeah, we actually just had somebody come in the studio and they gave a testimony. I'm sure it'll be up soon. I think it's four kids. They had four kids and she was pregnant with her fifth and they were thinking about having an abortion.

They just looked at each other and was like, no way. And, you know, they even went in as far as got the ultrasound and Planned Parenthood was saying, oh, you don't want to see what's on there. It's nothing on there and all this stuff.

And they were like, well, that doesn't sound right. And yeah, we've had four kids. And so they, you know, were like, Planned Parenthood's lying to us right now to get us to kill our kids. And then, you know, so they left and he died and didn't think that was right.

And they kept their kid and the child came into the studio and we, you know, got to see them laugh and play. You know, like, this is like, really saving lives, like real lives. So, you know, it matters a lot.

Praise God. It's always.

Great to hear that a ministry dedicated to something as important as rescuing babies from being slaughtered, that there's fruit coming from it, that it's not just a theory. It's not a hypothetical thing that you're talking about.

You're actually rescuing children. And I just thank God for it. And we'll be giving our listeners contact information later on in the program where you can keep in touch and find out more information about all of these wonderful things that Marcus has described.

Well now, Marcus, as I said before, typically when I have a first-time guest on the program, obviously when they are a Christian guest, sometimes I have non-Christian guests, but that's a rarity. But when I have a first-time Christian guest, I have them typically give a.

Summary of their testimony of salvation, and if you could do that for us. Yeah, so my testimony is, I was four years old, and I was sitting on my mom's lap, and maybe we were watching Billy Graham. I'm not exactly sure.

But I asked her about salvation and stuff, and I said the prayer, and as far as I know, that was legitimate. But what really ignited my faith was once I started getting into Way of the Master. And so Way of the Master...

And that was at five years old, was it? No, no, no, no. That was maybe 2006. So yeah, I would always call myself a Calvinist. I went to a Southern Baptist church that had a Reformed pastor, pretty much.

So I knew Calvinism, and I understood it and could defend it, but it wasn't until really Way of the Master that the doctrines of grace really just kick-started in me, and I began to apply them in my life and really embrace those doctrines and love those doctrines.

That's interesting that you say that,.

Because I was not aware, even though I know that Reformed people love the Way of the Master, and they love those folks involved in that ministry, I wasn't aware that they were Reformed.

Um, well, you know, I think it depends on who you hang out with when you do that stuff. So when you're out there Sri-preaching, for me, like, it made the doctrines of grace come alive, because when you're out there talking to people and they're boasting in their sin and they're talking, you really see, like, total depravity come into effect, because you go, man, these people really are depraved.

And then you also see that there's no way that they can be saved without faith, and faith is a gift. And so you see that happening, and you see, like, no matter what you tell them, no matter what you do, no matter how clearly you share the gospel with them.

Amen. And I know that the Way of the Master, one certain thing that they.

Have that is strongly connected to Reformed theology is they believe in the importance of using the law in evangelism to make sinners aware of their wretchedness, that perfect standard that we are commanded to completely and perfectly fulfill that we never will be able to, and that's why Christ needed to die for us and impute his own righteousness to us.

Right. And I look forward to getting those folks from Way of the Master, although I've had Ray Comfort on the show for about 15 minutes. He does very short interviews. Yeah, he does. I would love to have the other folks on, and I don't know why I'm getting temporary amnesia, but, oh, Kirk Cameron, that's it.

I don't know why I was forgetting his name, but Kirk Cameron actually spoke, I wasn't there when he spoke at Hebron Colony Ministries, but Hebron Colony Ministries is a is a Christian ministry for men who are seeking to recover and completely repent of addictions, and I lapsed into, or should I say back into, a very serious and deadly addiction to alcohol after 18 years of sobriety a number of years ago, and I went to Hebron Colony Ministries in Boone, North Carolina.

I always look for opportunities to sing their praises because the Lord used them to not only deliver me from an addiction, but to save my life, and before I got there, it was only a couple of years before I got there, I think, Kirk Cameron came there and preached, and they used to have the video up on YouTube.

I don't know if they still do, but he's doing a really good work there. I admire him very greatly, and would love to get him on the show eventually. Well, let me give our listeners our email address, chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, c-h-r-i-s-a-r-n-z-e-n at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Please only remain anonymous if it makes you feel more comfortable because the question involves a personal and private matter.

It just occurred to me that Apologia Church has their own.

Recovery ministry. Do they not? We do. We have something called Redeemed Rebels that comes on. I don't know why it doesn't come on, but it's a Bible study group, and I think we do those on Tuesday nights at our church.

And the church itself was founded in some kind of a recovery organization, right?

Yeah, I wasn't there back then, so I don't have any stories to tell about that, but yeah, I was started in as part of a drug rehab clinic, and they were doing Bible studies, and then it developed into the church now.

So that is as much as I know on that.

The Origins of the Film and the Power of the Phrase “Babies Are Murdered Here”

That's quite all right. And tell us now about how Babies Are Murdered Here came to be, this documentary. I love the title. It sounds like a strange thing to say about such a horrific title, but the reason why I love it is because I am tired of even conservatives and pro-life activists and Republicans and conservative radio pundits and TV hosts always restricting their vocabulary to the use of the term abortion.

And abortion has become, in my opinion, a very sanitized word. It doesn't give anybody a jolt to their system. It doesn't make their eyes pop open and their heart start to race, and it doesn't make them start to sweat.

It doesn't make them recoil in horror and disgust. It's a clinical term, and it doesn't sound much different than appendectomy or something like that. Babies Are Murdered Here says it like it is. Tell us how this documentary.

Came to be. So what happened was my friend John Speed in Syracuse, New York, she bought me a plane ticket and said, hey, I'd love to spend the weekend with you, and I'd love to spend the weekend with you and have you come and film like a promo video.

And you said, that sounds great, who is this? Yeah, well, no, I knew John Speed from Way to Master, and so we were friends. He wanted to do a promo video for the church, and so we came up there, and the complete act of providence, so he got the plane ticket back at 8 a .m. as opposed to 8 p .m. on Sunday, so I wasn't able to film any of the church.

So he just said, well, we're going out to this abortion clinic we've never been to. You can go out there and film. And so before we did that, a man by the name of Robert Gray was in town, and he went to two pack of markers, a red and black marker, and he made this sign that said Babies Are Murdered Here, and it was just reactions, like emotional reaction to it.

I was like, wow, this is an amazing thing, and we went out there to the abortion clinic with it, and we made this trailer. We're like, maybe there's a movie here on people who go outside of abortion clinics.

Along with some other footage, I made this trailer for money to make this movie, and only got $5 ,000 to make this movie, and I didn't have a job at the time, so I would just take the money, get a plane ticket, go somewhere else.

But what happened was people saw this trailer with a sign that said Babies Are Murdered Here, and from the trailer itself, people started making their own signs. So the movie really became about this word, using the word murder, to discuss abortion.

People all over the country started gathering outside of abortion clinics with these signs that said Babies Are Murdered Here, and over the past year or two, that sign has become so synonymous outside of abortion clinics, that Planned Parenthood created their own sign that they hang outside of Planned Parenthood that says, healthcare happens here.

So you have probably what was a million-dollar marketing campaign that Planned Parenthood paid for to really just respond to it, and so that's David and Goliath to me. It's just a $1 ,000 movie you place on YouTube, calls Planned Parenthood to come out of the woods and have to respond to it, is pretty amazing and unbelievable.

So they know who we are. But I think the shocking thing is, the biggest reaction, the negative reaction we've had to that movie, has been from the major pro-life groups. The multi-million dollar lobby groups.

And so one of the things we found is they really don't like to use the word murder when they talk about abortion, and it was baffling to us why they wouldn't call abortion murder. And we found out that if you, all these organizations, every major pro-life organization in the country, all the major political lobby groups, they're all run by Roman Catholics.

In the Catholic Catechism, there's a statement about murder, and there's one line in there that gives an exemption to people who commit murder if they're found to be victims. So I guess it's supposed to be self-defense, but it uses the word victim in the Catholic Catechism.

And so what we found out was the reason they use the word victim is so they don't have to charge all these women with a carnal sin. And so for victims, they don't have to kick these women out of the Catholic Church.

And so that's their loophole. And so it's a lot more, that's why they say, well women are in a tough situation, they're struggling, you don't know the situation at hand, these women are victims, and Planned Parenthood lies to them, and all these things.

But we know that a woman, when she's pregnant, she knows that she has a baby, right? That's why they go to the abortion clinic in the first place, is to get rid of the baby. They're not clueless as to what's inside of them when they miss their period.

And so they, right, no one is. They're with knowledge, and they sin willfully. It's shocking that one of the biggest, most controversial things you can say when you're talking about abortion in our nation is to blame the woman and call the woman a criminal.

That's the worst thing you could say. You remember when Trump said it, when he was running for president, it was all over the news, he said that a woman should be tried for murder for having it. And he was just like thinking logically about it when he was asked the question.

I don't think he's ever really thought about the issue before, and he was thinking logically about it, and was like, well, yeah, if a woman pays someone to murder her child, she should be found as a criminal.

And all the pro-life groups came out and was like, no, no, Trump, we don't support you on this. You can't say this. And so you have really, I guess, the pro-life lobby groups, the pro-life Catholic run groups in our nation, and even some of the Protestant ones, to be honest, are very effeminate and like really speaking the truth as to what abortion is.

And they reject using the word murder. And that was in part in the first film, as we were just like, wow, these women, I mean, these pro-life groups really do hate using biblical language. But there's a lot more to it.

It's not just that. They don't like using graphic signs. They don't like using repentance and preaching the gospel. For them, the view of abortion clinic ministry, and a lot of products have adopted their philosophy, and it's a very Arminian, anti-reformed view of preaching the gospel outside of abortion clinics.

For them, it's just like, let's just, if we get them off the edge, then we can save their baby and develop a relationship with them, and then maybe we can get to the gospel. But it's a hostage situation, and we just need to save the baby's life.

And so from a reformed view, when we're out there, these women are murdering their child, they're totally depraved. Nothing we say or do is going to convince them otherwise but a miracle from God. Preach the gospel and hope that even if they murder their child, what we said as they were murdering their child rings in their ears, and maybe they get saved later.

The problem with Catholic pro-life groups is the woman, well, you murdered your child, you know, we can offer you counseling if you need it, but it's not gospel-centered counseling. And so our main goal, really, is just to preach the gospel and pray that people's souls are saved eternally, and also maybe a baby will get saved.

The truth is that saving a child is hard to do, like there's nothing out there you could do. An ultrasound isn't going to convince a woman not to murder her child. Hi, I'm Stephan Lindblad, assistant.

Sorry about that, that was a technical error there, sorry about that. Okay, okay, so like the ultrasounds and the baby baskets, those things aren't going to convince a woman to save her life. Most of the women who will even go to an ultrasound, they're on the fence and not sure about it anyway, but a woman who is committed and she's, I'm going to have an abortion, they're going to do it, but from a miracle of God and a.

Change of heart. Yeah, in fact, I was surprised when Jeff Durbin was a guest, I believe it was the last time he was a guest on Iron Trip and Zion, he said that most of the women who they confront and you confront, meaning Apologia Church, outside of an abortion clinic are fully aware of the concept that they are murdering their baby.

I was surprised. They laugh and joke about it. I was surprised to hear that. I thought that they might have been brainwashed as women years ago were, that it's just a blob of tissue, but obviously it flies in the face of even everything secular society does when they respond to a pregnant woman.

If the woman is very happy about this and intends to keep a child, they always refer to it as a baby. Have you come up with a name yet for the baby? Have you felt the baby kick yet? What is the gender of the baby?

But if she wants an abortion, all of a sudden it becomes a fetus. But it is quite horrific to know that women, many, many, many women are getting their babies murdered and they're fully aware of it as if they are doing something that is mercy killing or something as absurd as that.

Well, that was the thing. The first time I went to an abortion clinic, someone was like, you should just go out with us. We're just going to share the gospel and all the signs. You don't have to say anything.

And my attitude was like, you know, I just don't have, like, I'm just not a mercy ministry counseling sort of guy. I'm much more of like a hard truth, you know, in your face, you know, what you're supposed to person.

Like, that's how I am. I just, I'm not. I mean, at least at the time, I'm much more filled with grace now. But when I went out there, they're like, well, don't even worry about it. And when I went out there, I realized that that's not really the ministry that's required out there.

What we need out there is people that speak the hard truth. So what you need is the people who speak the hard truth. And so that's what I found. Like, I was shocked. The first time I went to the abortion clinic, there were women laughing, giving us the middle finger, bragging about how many kids they've killed in the past.

This will be whatever number. And they do this all the time. And I was just like, whoa, this isn't women who are stuck in a hard position. These are women who know exactly what they're doing. No, of course we don't want to.

We don't want to talk to me. We don't want, we don't want to, we don't want to give the.

Impression though. That was somehow that happened. And we have, we have to speak the truth. We have to, you know, convict these women, these women for, for knowing what they're doing.

And we don't want to give the impression that every single woman is laughing about. Can you hear me, Marcus? Marcus, you're going to have to call me back because for some reason you can't hear me. I well, hopefully when we go, when we come back from our first break, Marcus will be able to hear me.

I don't know why I call back. Yes, you should call back Marcus. Uh, when we come back, hello, Marcus, can you hear me? Yeah, I can hear you. Okay. For some reason that we could hear you perfectly. You could not hear me though.

I don't know why. Okay. Uh, what, what I was, what I was saying, uh, was we don't want to give a, the impression that we are saying that every woman that kills their unborn child is doing so with the gleeful and mocking attitude that you've mentioned.

There are obviously, and there are even children who are being compelled, if not forced, uh, against their will to get abortions by their parents. And there's all kinds of circumstances.

Where women, yes, there's all kinds of circumstances, sex trafficking, of course. And, and parents, uh, that, that forced women to have abortions against their will. But that's a very small number of the, the main business.

Or if you were to divide up, like what percentage of sales a Planned Parenthood has, uh, uh, the very small majority would be women who are legitimately forced to do this. Uh, now the pro-life groups will say that there are women forcing them to do that, or they're going to kick them out of a house or something like that.

But in those instances, the mother is called to protect her baby's life at all expense to her own wellbeing. So even in those instances, so if you're in a situation where you're, you're, you need to be brave and do what you have to do to save the life of your child, even in that instance.

And obviously, obviously though,.

If the pregnant girl is a child, uh, even though we would still believe that this is murder she's committing, there's going to be a lot less, um, responsibility in an earthly sense, I'm talking about for her to make those kinds of decisions to refuse an abortion.

If she's a child, I'm talking about a young, a very young teen, or perhaps,.

Uh, it'd be a lot harder for her to make those decisions, but she's still accountable for God.

For murder. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And we have to, we have to go to our very first break right now. And as I said before, if anybody would like to join us on the air, our email address is CV. I'm just about to give the website for Cumberland Valley Bible book service.

Cause I was looking at our phone number. If you have a question to ask is, and I'm here, I'm doing it again, I'm giving a phone number. Our email address. If you have a question to ask is Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com. That's C H R I S a R N Z E N a gmail .com. Please give us your first name. Uh, at least your city and state of residence, your country of residence. If you live outside the USA and please only remain anonymous.

If your question involves a personal and private matter, and obviously on a topic like this, I could readily believe that, uh, this topic would lend itself to listeners wanting to remain anonymous because of something that they have personally gone through in regard, or perhaps are going through right now and in regard to this issue.

But if it's not a personal and private matter, please give us your first name, city and state and country of residence. If you live outside the USA, uh, don't go away. God willing, we will be right back.

We'll be right back with Marcus Pittman and more of our discussion.

On babies are murdered here. Got to tell you for my money, Chris Arnson's radio program is just the best criticizing. I think that's what it's called. This is Todd Freel of wretched radio and TV with Phil Johnson.

Of grace to you, inviting everybody to come to the G three conference, which has almost instantly become one of the best conferences in the country.

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Chris Sorensen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here. I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years. His name is Dan Buttafuoco. Dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer, but not the type that typically comes to mind.

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Paul wrote to the church at Galatia, For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ. Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

We are a Reformed Baptist Church and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689. We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts. We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do, than how men view these things.