The Diving Board, Episode 8

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August 25, 2019

In this episode, we begin to analyze the second part of Marcus Grodi's evidence from the early church fathers that led to his conversion to Roman Catholicism: the Eucharist. We cover the origin of the Eucharist and the origin of the term "Sacrifice of the Mass" and begin to show from the early church that the Eucharist was the tithe offering for 300 years, until the end of the 4th century when the Roman Catholic Sacrifice of the Mass was born.

00:05: And this is very significant. Not one, not even one of those Eastern bishops disputed or questioned the
00:13: Pope's authority. I mean, the
00:19: Eucharistic, let's just say this, the Eucharistic abuses are abuses to Jesus' DNA, his body and blood.
00:35: As I continued to study my early church father, older brothers and sisters, I started to realize that God had a plan for me that was bigger than any plan that I'd ever had for myself.
00:47: And before you know it, it turned to the Catholic Church. When I made that decision to become
00:52: Catholic, everything began to fit. It was like a puzzle with the four sides that I put together, with the papacy and the
01:01: Blessed Mother and tradition in the Eucharist. Let's say there's a person watching this program right now from where you were.
01:16: Why should they make the same journey home that you made? I would say investigate the history for yourself because the famous line from Cardinal Newman is to be deep in history is to cease to be
01:27: Protestant. And that's pretty much what happened to me. So I would say take the Catholic Church's claims, investigate them, and as my father always told me, go wherever Jesus leads you.
01:39: And maybe it would end up in the Catholic Church. Hello to everyone.
01:46: We are back with a new episode of The Diving Board, where we dive deep into history. The Diving Board podcast focuses on the conversion testimonies of Protestants who convert to Roman Catholicism.
01:58: In particular, we focus on the arguments of Protestants who fell for the famous dictum of erstwhile
02:03: Protestant -turned -Roman Catholic Cardinal Newman, who once said, to be deep in history is to cease to be a
02:11: Protestant. What we find in so many Protestant conversion stories is that they believed they had become so deep in history that they couldn't be
02:19: Protestant anymore. But as we have shown and will continue to show, so many
02:24: Protestants who convert to Rome thinking that they, too, are deep in history are actually only ankle -deep and indeed so shallow in history that they do not even know that they are only ankle -deep.
02:36: In fact, for Roman Catholics, ankle -deep in the first four centuries is as far as they dare venture, because to go deeper than that is to discover the soft white underbelly of Roman Catholicism.
02:48: There is no evidence of its existence until the latter half of the fourth century. Getting deep in history is therefore something a
02:57: Roman Catholic cannot do, because Roman Catholicism itself is a grotesque aberration of the
03:02: Church of Christ, a novelty 300 years removed from the Church of the Apostles and their followers.
03:09: This is episode 8, which is our third episode on Marcus Grodi, host of the
03:15: Journey Home show on the Coming Home Network, a Roman Catholic ministry that focuses on the return of wandering
03:21: Protestants back to the fold of Roman Catholicism. Marcus Grodi's voice will be familiar to our listeners because his voice is featured in our intro audio as he interviews
03:31: Dr. Joseph Johnson. And we have used his interviews of former Protestants in order to highlight their ignorance of history.
03:38: And now we are analyzing Marcus Grodi himself in order to highlight his ignorance too.
03:45: Marcus Grodi provides citations from the early church fathers that influenced his decision to return to Rome, and he divided his citations into four main categories.
03:54: The church hierarchy, the Eucharist, which is to him the Lord's Supper and the Roman sacrifice of the
04:00: Mass, the Primacy of Rome, and the Unity of the Church. In our first two episodes, we only had time to get started with the first category as we worked through his citation of Clement of Rome, as well as his citations from Ignatius of Antioch and from Irenaeus of Lyons on the church hierarchy.
04:20: In our first episode, Grodi mischaracterized Clement of Rome as saying that the church at Corinth ought to obey the
04:27: Bishop of Rome by submitting to the Bishop in Corinth. In fact, Clement was insisting that they not submit to the
04:34: Bishop of Rome, but rather that they should submit to the Scriptures by submitting to the plurality of duly elected elders, and that the schismatics should do whatever the majority of the congregation had decided.
04:46: No, that does not sound like Roman Catholicism at all. Then we addressed Grodi's unscriptural and historically unviable assumption that apostolic succession is a guarantee of orthodoxy, and showed from the
04:59: Scriptures and from the historical record that neither the apostles nor the early church shared
05:04: Grodi's unwavering trust in the bishops, often warning about bad ones, confronting sinful ones, and dismissing others when their lives and teachings were at odds with what the
05:13: Scriptures teach. In the second episode on Marcus Grodi, we picked up on his citation of Ignatius of Antioch's admonition that the bishops, presbyters, and deacons were instituted by God, and that nothing, nothing, absolutely nothing should be done apart from the bishop.
05:30: We then showed from history that nobody has ever actually believed or practiced that, and certainly not modern
05:36: Roman Catholics, who have only lately discovered under Francis I, that they can disagree with the
05:42: Pope after all, if he says things contrary to their personal private interpretations of tradition, the magisterium, and the
05:49: Scriptures. We showed, rather, that Ignatius was simply responding to a contemporary Gnostic teaching from a document called the
05:55: Apocalypse of Peter, in which the author taught that Christians need to reject bishops and deacons because they are not instituted by God.
06:04: Ignatius of Antioch was simply correcting that false teaching. After that, we addressed
06:09: Irenaeus' writings on the authority of tradition, and Marcus Grodi's attempt to have Irenaeus support apostolic tradition as a higher and earlier authority than the
06:19: Scriptures. As we showed from Irenaeus himself, he believed emphatically that the
06:24: Scripture is the apostolic tradition, which is why he believed that apostolic tradition is authoritative.
06:30: Using Irenaeus' definition of apostolic tradition, I think apostolic tradition is authoritative too, as should all
06:37: Christians. Okay, that wraps up Marcus Grodi on his first topic, the church hierarchy.
06:43: Let's move on to his second topic, which is the Eucharist, a term Roman Catholics apply exclusively to the consecrated bread and wine of the
06:52: Lord's Supper. This is going to be a long episode. In fact, it will take two episodes, over an hour each, because there is just so much information to cover, and so many myths and misunderstandings to correct.
07:06: We will call these the Eucharist episodes, so we can point people back to them later. We are going to cover a lot of information, and the show notes will be extensive.
07:16: Hopefully, this will be a handy audio reference guide to those who wish to understand how the
07:21: Lord's Supper, instituted by Christ the night before he died, through historical ignorance and misunderstanding, has been twisted into the idolatrous, abominable, sacrifice of Christ's alleged body and blood to God the
07:34: Father, as practiced by Roman Catholicism since the late 4th century. So, Marcus Grodi starts into the
07:42: Eucharist by citing Ignatius of Antioch from about 107 AD, and Justin Martyr from about 155
07:49: AD, noting that they both use the term Eucharist, and by this he wants to demonstrate the early church's belief in the real presence of Christ in the
07:58: Eucharist, and to prove the early origins of the word Eucharist to refer to the consecrated elements of the
08:04: Lord's Supper. When I use the word consecrate here, I am referring to the specific moment in the liturgy when the bread and wine of the
08:13: Lord's Supper are blessed, just before they are consumed for the meal. By way of reminder, the
08:19: Roman Catholic religion teaches that at the Last Supper, Jesus consecrated the bread and wine, and turned it into his literal body and blood, and then offered them as a sacrifice to the
08:29: Father for our sins. In fact, Roman Catholicism teaches that the real sacrifice for our sins took place not on Friday afternoon at the cross, but on Thursday night at the
08:41: Supper. Yes, that's right, they do teach and believe that the real sacrifice for our sins took place on Thursday night, and it was there, at the
08:51: Supper, that Jesus offered his body and blood as the sacrifice. The teaching originated in the latter part of the 4th century, in 382
09:01: AD, with Gregory of Nysa in his work called On the Space of Three Days.
09:06: Now citing from Oration 1, He offered himself for us, victim and sacrifice, and priest as well, and Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.
09:19: When did he do this? When he made his own body, food, and his own blood drink for his disciples.
09:26: Again, that's Gregory of Nysa, On the Space of Three Days, Oration 1. Ambrose of Milan joined in the new chorus of offering
09:35: Christ's body and blood in the sacrifice of the Lord's Supper. In his commentaries on the
09:40: Psalms in 389 AD, he wrote, It is he himself that is offered in the sacrifice here on earth when the body of Christ is offered.
09:50: That's Ambrose of Milan, Commentaries on the Twelve Psalms of David, Psalm 38, paragraph 25.
09:57: Additionally, because the bread and wine, after they are blessed by the priest, are said to be literally the body and blood of Christ, and because Christ is a person who is
10:08: God, then the consecrated bread and wine are also the soul and divinity of Christ as well, and therefore the bread and wine are to be worshipped as God, according to Roman Catholicism.
10:21: It is important that the listener understand that in Roman Catholicism, after the bread of the
10:26: Lord's Supper is blessed, the proper expected response is to kneel, bow down, and even to cast oneself face down on the ground to worship it.
10:36: That is why Roman Catholics are taught to genuflect, or bend the knee when they enter a church building, and kneel at the consecration of the elements, when the bread and wine are blessed by the priest.
10:47: That is what Roman Catholics mean, and what Marcus Grodi means by the real presence of Christ in the
10:53: Eucharist. And when Marcus Grodi says you need to become Roman Catholic because the early church fathers taught the real presence of Christ in the
11:01: Eucharist, that is what he is talking about. He wants you to bow down to the bread and worship it, because he thinks that's what the early church did.
11:11: Roman Catholicism teaches that the Lord's Supper is the sacrifice Christ offered for your sins, and you should worship the bread and wine of the
11:18: Lord's Supper in humble, abject humility, reverence, and adoration, because that bread and wine created the universe.
11:25: Don't ever forget that. The early church did not teach that, and we will get into that more this week and the next, but for now, here is
11:33: Marcus Grodi citing Ignatius of Antioch on the Eucharist, quoting his letter to the church at Smyrna in 107
11:40: AD. Now I'll go to another topic. Another big topic for me was the
11:46: Eucharist. All right, I was a pastor. I celebrated the Lord's Supper. But what did the early church believe about the
11:53: Lord's Supper? I'll go back to St. Ignatius of Antioch. He's writing this around the year 107, his letter to the
12:00: Smyrnians. He says, They abstain from the Eucharist, they meaning the heretics, those outside the church, and from prayer, because they do not confess that the
12:09: Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior, Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins, in which the
12:16: Father in His goodness raised up again. First, what struck me as I read this the first time was that the use of the word
12:24: Eucharist. Thanksgiving, the calling of the Lord's Supper, the
12:29: Eucharist, connected with prayer, and they didn't celebrate the Eucharist because they didn't believe that it was truly the flesh and the blood of Jesus.
12:38: And I had to put myself in that category. And which side was I? The side of Ignatius or those he called heretics?
12:47: And I taught that the Lord's Supper was merely symbolic. I would have been on the side of the heretics.
12:56: Okay, there's a lot in there. And as I said, we're going to be spending this whole episode and the next on the
13:01: Eucharist. But for now, let me just say that when Ignatius of Antioch uses the word
13:06: Eucharist, Marcus Grodi thinks he is referring to the Lord's Supper. But in reality, he is referring to the tithe offering, as we will show from Ignatius' own words.
13:17: We'll come back to Ignatius momentarily. Now here is Marcus Grodi citing
13:22: Justin Martyr on the Eucharist. Let's go to another early church father.
13:29: This is St. Justin Martyr. He's one of the first Christian apologists. He was born near Samaria about A .D.
13:37: 100, converted to Christianity from paganism about A .D. 130, became a great defender of the faith against the philosophers.
13:45: He taught and defended the Christian religion in Asia Minor and at Rome, where he suffered martyrdom about the year 165.
13:52: So he was essentially a contemporary of St. Irenaeus.
13:57: And he writes in his first apology, We call this food Eucharist, and no one else is permitted to partake of it except one who believes our teaching to be true, and who has been washed in the washing, which is for the remission of sins and for regeneration, and is thereby living as Christ has enjoined.
14:18: For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these, but since Jesus Christ our
14:24: Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the
14:36: Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by Him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and blood of that incarnated
14:47: Jesus. Now, again, this quote emphasizes the unanimous belief in the early church, and again, if we could spend the whole program going on quotes from the early fathers, in the belief in the reality of the body and blood of Christ in the
15:05: Eucharist. In the early church, they affirmed the importance of recognizing the miracle of God, the same miracle through which
15:16: God enabled Christ to be incarnate by the word of God in flesh for our salvation.
15:25: In that mystery, we see the miracle also of the Eucharist. Marcus Grodi is citing here from Justin Martyr's First Apology, chapter 66, and we will provide more information on Justin's liturgy in a few minutes, but it is important to know this up front.
15:44: When Marcus Grodi quotes Justin Martyr as saying, the food is made into the Eucharist by the
15:50: Eucharistic prayer, he is reading a mistranslation that is intended to mislead.
15:56: And it is not Marcus Grodi's fault, it is the translator's fault, because the translator is intentionally covering up something that is evident in the
16:03: Greek, which is that the Eucharist does not refer to the supper, but to the tithe that comes before the supper.
16:11: The actual Greek says, the Eucharistic food is made into the body and blood of Christ by the prayer of his word.
16:19: As we will show, to Justin Martyr, the bread and wine was already the Eucharist before the consecration, because the
16:26: Eucharist referred to the thank offering, or the tithe offering of the first fruits of the harvest, not to the
16:32: Lord's Supper. From Justin's own words, and from the scriptures which he cites, the prayer of his word, that is,
16:40: Jesus' words at the Last Supper, this is my body, this is my blood, is pronounced over bread and wine that has already been
16:49: Eucharisted. We'll get to that in a minute. Justin Martyr did not believe that Jesus' words turned the bread and wine into the
16:56: Eucharist, he believed that Jesus' words turned the Eucharist into Christ's body and blood.
17:02: It was already the Eucharist before the consecration, and Jesus' words simply consecrate the bread and wine for the meal.
17:10: And finally, Marcus Grodi makes the claim that the early church unanimously agreed that the bread and wine of the
17:16: Lord's Supper were literally the body and blood of Christ. That is a remarkable statement, an audacious claim that is easily overturned by the evidence, which we will provide today and next week, because even after the words of consecration, the bread and wine were still considered figures, symbols, types, and antitypes of Christ's body and blood, and not the real thing.
17:39: They were not considered literally to be the body and blood of Christ, and they were never ever offered as a sacrifice to God, at least not until the end of the 4th century, which is where the
17:50: Roman Catholic sacrifice of the Mass began. But first, there are a couple words we need to explain for our
17:57: Protestant listeners, and frankly, we're going to have to explain them to our Roman Catholic listeners, because they don't know what the words mean either, and I mean that charitably, they really don't.
18:07: The two words are the Eucharist and the Mass. When you study the early church writings, it becomes painfully obvious that Roman Catholics do not know the true meaning of the word
18:18: Eucharist to the early church. And when you read their own encyclopedia, it is painfully clear that they do not really know why they call the
18:25: Lord's Supper the Mass. So let's talk about those two words, because their misunderstanding on those two words is why they have abandoned the apostolic liturgy of the
18:34: Scriptures and fallen for a late 4th century novelty. For those unfamiliar with the word
18:42: Eucharist, it comes from the Greek word Eucharisteo, which means Thanksgiving. It is a perfectly fine word, a beautiful word, and it comes from the
18:51: Scriptures. It was the word the gospel writers used to describe what Jesus did when he multiplied the loaves in John chapter 6 and gave thanks to his
18:59: Father. It is the word they used to describe what Jesus said at the Last Supper, taking the bread and wine and giving thanks to his
19:07: Father before the meal, before calling it his body and blood. In the early church, the
19:13: Eucharist referred to the thank -offering of prayers and supplications and the tithe offering that was collected for the poor, and it was a thank -offering of the first fruits of the harvest to God, set aside for the widow, the orphan, and the stranger.
19:28: That Eucharist, that offering, took place before the Lord's Supper. Then, when it came time for the
19:35: Supper, bread and wine were taken from the Eucharist, from the tithe, at which point they were consecrated and called the body and blood of Christ for the meal.
19:45: The Eucharist referred to the thank -offering that took place before the elements were called his body and blood.
19:51: That is scriptural. It is what Jesus did, and it is what the early church taught and believed about the
19:57: Eucharist. And importantly, unbelievers were not allowed to be present for the
20:02: Eucharist and the prayers because the early church did not believe it was possible to offer a gift and prayer of thanks without a clean conscience, and it was not possible to have a clean conscience apart from faith in Christ.
20:15: And therefore, no one was allowed to stay for the tithe offering unless he was willing to acknowledge
20:20: Christ's incarnation, his birth, life, death, and resurrection. That is to say, unless he was willing to profess faith in Christ.
20:30: And thus, unbelievers, catechumens, and the backslidden were dismissed from the service when the time came for the
20:36: Eucharistic oblation, which is to say, for the tithe offering, or what we now call the collection or the offertory.
20:44: And when someone was newly baptized, he was finally allowed to stay for the Eucharist and the prayers.
20:50: For example, in the early second century, Justin Martyr said that as soon as someone is baptized and confesses faith in Christ, he is finally allowed to join in the prayers and participate in the thank offering.
21:03: That's Justin Martyr, First Apology, chapter 65. And in the third century,
21:08: Hippolytus of Rome said that those who are scheduled to be baptized are to bring their own Eucharist with them for the oblation.
21:15: That's Hippolytus and Aphora, chapter 20. And at the Council of Nicaea in 325
21:21: AD, in Canon 11, it says that those recently found to be in sin were not allowed to stay for the offerings until their time of repentance was complete.
21:31: And still in the early fourth century, Julius of Rome, about 341 AD, stated that catechumens, that is, those who are in training but have not yet made a confession of Christ, were supposed to be dismissed from the service before the offering of the tithe.
21:48: That's recorded in Athanasius, Apology Against the Arians, part 1, paragraph 28.
21:54: That's right. The catechumens, the unbelievers and the backslidden were dismissed prior to the
22:00: Eucharistic oblation, which is to say, prior to the tithe offering. And that leads us to our discussion on the word mass.
22:09: It is no exaggeration to say that nobody, nobody, and I mean nobody in Roman Catholicism, not even the
22:16: Pope himself, actually knows the real reason they call the Lord's Supper the mass. And the reason that they do not know why they call the
22:23: Lord's Supper the mass is because they also do not know why they call the Lord's Supper the Eucharist.
22:29: The word mass comes from the Latin words Ite Missae Est, which is what the
22:35: Roman Catholic priest says at the end of the supper to dismiss the congregation when the service is over.
22:40: The Roman Catholic Encyclopedia acknowledges that Roman Catholicism is not entirely sure why they do this or why they call the
22:48: Lord's Supper the mass. Now citing from the Roman Catholic Encyclopedia under the entry
22:54: Ite Missae Est. It is our formula of the old dismissal still contained in all liturgies.
23:04: It is undoubtedly one of the most ancient Roman formulae, as may be seen from its archaic and difficult form.
23:11: The medieval commentators were much exercised to explain the meaning of the strange expression.
23:17: Durandus, from the 11th century, suggests several interpretations. It has been thought that the word
23:23: Finita is omitted as in Ite Missae Est Finita or Est is taken absolutely as meaning exists as in the mass is now an accomplished fact.
23:36: The real reason seems to lie rather in interpreting correctly the word Missa. Before it became the technical name of the
23:43: Holy Liturgy in the Roman Rite, it simply meant dismissal. Again, that's the
23:49: Roman Catholic Encyclopedia under the entry Ite Missae Est. As you can see, even the
23:56: Encyclopedia is not sure why the word mass is used and assumes that it must refer to the dismissal of believers after the supper is over.
24:05: If you read the whole entry in the Encyclopedia, you'll find that the earliest evidence they can provide to support their current interpretation is from Floris the
24:14: Deacon in the 9th century. As is typical with the Roman Catholic religion, they are not looking back nearly far enough.
24:21: They are correct in the notion that it is a dismissal. What they are wrong about is the point in the liturgy at which the dismissal was to occur.
24:29: In the ancient liturgies, the dismissal occurred before the Eucharistic tithe offering began.
24:35: After the unconverted and unbelieving were dismissed, the Eucharistic tithe sacrifice was offered with prayers.
24:43: And then, after the tithe and prayer offering was complete, bread and wine were taken from the Eucharist, at which point the words of Christ, that is, this is my body, this is my blood, were then recited over the bread and wine to consecrate them for the supper.
24:58: And keep in mind, in the earliest liturgies, the consecration was a simple recitation of Christ's words over the bread and wine.
25:06: This is my body, broken for you. This is my blood, which is shed for you. At which point the consecrated bread and wine were eaten, but were not offered or sacrificed.
25:17: So, in fact, the sacrifice of the Mass literally means the sacrifice of the dismissal, and the dismissal was for the
25:24: Eucharistic tithe oblation. If there was ever a sacrifice of the Mass in the early Church, it was the sacrifice of the dismissal, which was the
25:33: Eucharistic tithe offering. And you'll get a good sense of this as we proceed through the history of the
25:38: Eucharist and the history of the liturgy. It was considered wrong to present the thanks or the tithe offering to the
25:44: Lord with an unclear conscience, that is, if you were not a believer or you held something against your brother or you knew your brother was holding something against you.
25:53: And thus, unbelievers, catechumens, and backsliders were dismissed prior to the tithe offering, the
25:58: Eucharist. And now you know more about the sacrifice of the Mass than even the Pope does.
26:04: And, in fact, you now know more about the sacrifice of the Mass than almost any other Roman Catholic on earth, because they really aren't that deep in history at all.
26:12: Now, if you are like Marcus Groti and you are not very deep in history, it is easy to misread
26:17: Ignatius of Antioch and Justin Martyr and to assume that they were describing a Roman Catholic liturgy, and that is why we say here that to be deep in history is to cease to be
26:27: Roman Catholic. And to get to our point today, the problem with Marcus Groti is that he does not really know what the original
26:34: Eucharistic sacrifice was, and he does not really even know why it ended up being called the sacrifice of the dismissal in the first place.
26:41: In his ignorance, he has assumed that the Eucharist must refer to the bread and wine that has already been consecrated.
26:47: So, when Ignatius of Antioch says heretics abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they confess not the
26:54: Eucharist to be the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, Marcus Groti thinks it means heretics abstain from the supper because they don't believe in transubstantiation.
27:04: But when the ancient liturgy is understood in the context of the dismissal, followed by the Eucharistic tithe offering and prayers, followed by the consecration of Eucharistic food,
27:14: Ignatius of Antioch's words take on a whole different meaning. It simply means that heretics do not participate in the tithe offering and prayers because they are unwilling to take the bread and wine from the tithe and consecrate it by saying, this is my body broken for you, this is my blood which is shed for you, because they don't really believe that Jesus took on a body, suffered, died, and rose from the dead.
27:36: That's all. And we can say something similar of Justin Martyr's words. As we have said,
27:42: Marcus Groti assumes the Eucharist refers to the Lord's Supper. So, when Justin Martyr says, and this food is called among us
27:49: Eucharist, of which none is allowed to partake, but the man who believes that the things we teach are true, he makes it sound like Justin Martyr is saying that nobody is allowed to participate in the
28:00: Supper unless they believe in transubstantiation. But when we understand the liturgy of the early church, and in fact if we just read the liturgy of Justin Martyr, what
28:09: Justin Martyr has really said is that only those who have professed faith in Christ and his incarnation, death, and resurrection are allowed to stay for the
28:17: Eucharistic tithe offering, and then after that food has been Eucharisted or offered, the
28:23: Eucharistic food is then distributed to all who are present, and then when Christ's words are spoken over that Eucharistic bread and wine, we have been taught that they are
28:31: Christ's body and blood to us. It is not a confession that the bread and wine have been transubstantiated, but rather a confession that Christ was truly incarnated and suffered and died for us.
28:41: That's all. And, as you will see in the history of the liturgy, sometimes that bread and wine is distributed into the recipient's hands before the words of consecration are spoken.
28:52: You'll get to see that several times as we walk through 300 years of the Eucharistic liturgy. And thus, there is nothing either in Ignatius of Antioch or in Justin Martyr that is at odds with anything most
29:03: Protestants do in their liturgies today. The recitation of Christ's words over the bread and wine of the
29:09: Lord's Supper is a confession of faith in the incarnation, not a confession of belief in transubstantiation.
29:15: And as we said earlier, Marcus Grodi has spoken a grotesque falsehood in his claim that the early church unanimously agreed that the bread and wine of the
29:23: Supper were the literal body and blood of Christ. Take all the evidence together, and what we find in the early church is what is essentially a
29:31: Protestant liturgy, including their repeated and emphatic claims that the consecrated bread and wine are still just figures, symbols, types, and antitypes of Christ's body and blood, but not the real thing.
29:44: And remember, the real point of Marcus Grodi's references to the early liturgy is to prove that the early church offered
29:50: Christ's body and blood to the Father as the Eucharistic sacrifice for sins and worshipped a crust of bread and some squeezed grapes as if they had created the universe.
30:01: What we will prove today and in our next episode is that in the early church, the Eucharistic sacrifice was the tithe offering that occurred before the consecration, and nothing was offered after the consecration and the consecrated elements of the
30:15: Lord's Supper were just considered to be symbols or figures of Christ's actual body and blood to be eaten rather than sacrificed.
30:23: And Marcus Grodi would know this if Marcus Grodi was deep in history. Okay, so what we propose to do today and in our next episode is to show the primitive liturgy of the
30:35: Scriptures and the proper apostolic use of the word Eucharist and then show how the early church understood the
30:41: Eucharistic tithe offering as a sacrifice of praise and thanks as prescribed by the prophets and the apostles.
30:47: We will have a brief sidebar on Cyprian of Carthage because of how he is used by Roman Catholics to support the early origination of the
30:54: Roman Catholic Sacrifice of the Mass and then we'll start our journey through 300 years of the apostolic scriptural liturgy of the early church before the
31:03: Roman Catholic Sacrifice of the Mass was born. And I'll make no bones about it. The Roman Catholic Sacrifice of the
31:09: Mass is an abominable, heretical, late 4th century novelty utterly foreign to the church
31:15: Jesus Christ established. So, let's get started. Okay, let's start with the scriptural accounts.
31:22: According to Luke 22, 19 and 1 Corinthians 11, 24 Jesus gave thanks for the bread before breaking it and giving it to the disciples and calling it his body.
31:32: According to Matthew 26, 27 Mark 14, 23 Luke 22, 20 and 1
31:38: Corinthians 11, 25 Jesus gave thanks for the wine before giving it to his disciples and calling it his blood.
31:44: In each case, the word for gave thanks is Eucharistesis. In other words,
31:50: Jesus Eucharisted the bread and wine first and then called it his body and blood. The church recognized this and made the
31:58: Thanksgiving, or Eucharist a part of the liturgy. And when thanks had been offered to the Lord all the people said,
32:04: Amen. This is recorded for us in 1 Corinthians 14, 16 -17 where Paul asks how someone can say
32:11: Amen after the Eucharist if the Thanksgiving is not offered in a common language. Now citing 1
32:18: Corinthians 14, 16 -17 Else, when thou shalt blessed with the
32:23: Spirit, how shall he that occupyeth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
32:31: For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. So from this we can see there was a definite point in the liturgy after the
32:41: Thanksgiving when the people said Amen. We also know that the
32:47: Eucharistic Thanksgiving sacrifice included the provision of food for others as Paul wrote in 2
32:52: Corinthians 9, 10 -11. Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness, being enriched in everything to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.
33:12: And the word there for thanksgiving is Eucharistia. And also in Philippians 4, 18 which identifies the provision for the poor and those in need as a sacrifice of praise.
33:24: But I have all and abound, I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odor of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, well -pleasing to God.
33:39: So we have from the Scriptures a liturgical giving of thanks for God's abundant provisions, and such provisions were considered a sacrifice acceptable and well -pleasing to God.
33:48: And we also have the apostolic Amen after the Thanksgivings are concluded. We also know that after the
33:56: Thanksgiving but before the bread and wine are consumed there was a blessing over them both at which point they were called the body and blood of Christ.
34:04: Here is Paul again, this time in 1 Corinthians 10, verses 16 -17. The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ?
34:15: The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? For we being many are one bread and one body, for we are all partakers of that one bread.
34:26: Taken together with the Gospel accounts, we can use Paul's description to construct a very simple primitive liturgy from the
34:32: Scriptures, in which there was a Eucharistic thank -offering, followed by an Amen, followed by a distribution and consecration of the food, followed by the eating of that consecrated food.
34:43: A thank -offering, an Amen, a consecration, and a meal. That, as it turns out, is the same liturgy as the early church, and is, at its core, the same liturgy of most
34:53: Protestants today. But what is also evidence is that this is not the liturgy of Roman Catholicism.
34:59: What we will show is that the early church held to this simple liturgical order for 300 years, and then a novelty arose in which the
35:07: Eucharistic thanksgiving sacrifice began to take place after the consecration, and the
35:12: Roman Catholic Mass sacrifice was born. But first, let's spend some more time talking about that Eucharistic thank -offering in the early church.
35:23: In the reading of the Gospels, the early church saw Christ thanking His Father for the bread and wine, and thus they celebrated something called the
35:30: Eucharist that took place prior to the Lord's Supper. It is what we would now call the tithe offering, or the offertory, or the collection, but in the early church it was called the
35:39: Eucharist, that is, the thank -offering of the first fruits of the flocks and the harvest, because, before supper,
35:46: Christ had offered thanks to His Father. The early church did this in imitation of Christ. That is how the early church celebrated the
35:53: Eucharist. First, thanking God for His abundant provisions and offering them back to Him, as a
35:58: Eucharist, a gift, a tithe offering, a thank -offering, setting aside the best of their food for the poor, the hungry, the widow, the orphan, and the stranger.
36:08: And then, taking bread and wine from that offering, they blessed them and used them to celebrate the
36:14: Lord's Supper. It is true that in some cases an early writer describing the liturgy would acknowledge that the bread and wine for the supper was taken from the
36:22: Eucharist. And therefore, he would say that we eat of the Eucharist during the supper, which is a true statement.
36:28: But the consistent testimony of the early writers is that it was a Eucharist before it was blessed, before it was consecrated, and did not suddenly become the
36:36: Eucharist at the consecration. What is also true is that the early church never offered the
36:42: Eucharist after the consecration. Marcus Grota has suggested that the early church was unanimous in its belief in the real presence of Christ in the
36:50: Eucharist because Roman Catholicism believes Christ is really offered to the Father in the
36:55: Lord's Supper. But there was no offering of bread and wine after it was called the Body and Blood of Christ in the early church, so there was no sense in which the early church believed that Christ was really offered to the
37:06: Father in the Lord's Supper at all. It is important to understand that subtlety in order to understand how
37:12: Roman Catholicism attempts to trace its novelties back to the early church. Every early church reference to a
37:18: Eucharistic tithe offering is interpreted by Roman Catholics to refer to the Roman Catholic sacrifice of the
37:24: Mass. See? The early church offered the Eucharist as a sacrifice. Roman Catholicism offers the
37:30: Eucharist as a sacrifice, too. And Protestants? Well, they don't even use the word Eucharist. Therefore, Roman Catholicism is the true church, and the early church offered the sacrifice of Jesus' Body and Blood to the
37:42: Father in the Lord's Supper, just like Roman Catholics do today. See how that works? And it is not just Roman Catholics who make that argument.
37:50: Protestants who want to reconnect with the early church also fall for the error of projecting the medieval
37:55: Roman Catholic Mass sacrifice of Christ's Body and Blood back on to the early centuries in order to restore authentic worship.
38:03: Here are several examples. Now, citing from Jim Jordan in his article Doing the
38:09: Lord's Supper from November 1995, The Lord's Supper presents
38:14: Christ's death to the Father. And now, citing from Jeffrey Myers in his book called
38:22: The Lord's Service from 2003, quoting from page 223, What I am arguing for is that the
38:28: Eucharistic prayer is made to God, and the death of Jesus is showed forth to Him as the people listen and participate.
38:36: Here, Jeffrey Myers is citing from 17th century French Reformed pastor Pierre Dumoulin. It may be said in the
38:44: Eucharist we offer Jesus Christ to God insofar as we ask God to receive on our behalf the sacrifice of His death.
38:53: And now, citing from Peter Lightheart, The Eucharistic Sacrifice from January 2017.
39:00: In the Lord's Supper, the tokens of Christ's death, bread and wine, are presented to the
39:05: Father. He remembers His promise, and Christ gives Himself with all His gifts. So, as you can see, it's not just Roman Catholics who are saying that the authentic celebration of the
39:18: Lord's Supper is to present Christ's death to the Father. It's actually Protestants too.
39:23: So let me state this clearly. The Church of Jesus Christ has never, never, never, never, ever offered
39:31: Christ's death to the Father in the Lord's Supper, or presented Christ's death to the Father to prompt Him to remember
39:37: His covenant. Never, ever. These men, by making these statements, display their galactic ignorance, both of the
39:45: Scriptures and of ecclesiastical and sacramental history. And instead of restoring the Church to its apostolic roots, they are merely entangling it in late antique and medieval
39:55: Roman Catholic superstition and idolatry. Christ did not institute and the
40:01: Apostles did not pass on to us a liturgical offering of Christ's body and blood to the
40:07: Father, or even a symbolic sacrifice of Christ's symbolic body and blood to the Father. It is a late 4th century novelty, it is heretical, it is abominable, it is idolatrous, and only the galactically ignorant would propose such a thing as an apostolic rite.
40:24: As we will show in this episode and the next, the arguments of wandering Protestants and Roman Catholic apologists cannot possibly work without an orchestrated and systemic ignorance that infects the apologetic and scholastic community, as well as some very clever, very deceptive, and downright unconscionable tampering with the original sources, in order to force the early
40:45: Church to appear to offer Christ's body and blood to the Father. It is a remarkable case of historical revisionism, and it has led to the downfall of thousands, as they have assumed that the early
40:56: Church really offered Christ's body and blood to the Father. The early Church absolutely did not.
41:01: And when I say there is a galactic ignorance of the early liturgy among both scholars and apologists, I mean that exactly how it sounds.
41:09: And the ignorance to which I refer is an orchestrated ignorance intended to legitimize one of the most abominable practices in history, which is the liturgical representation of Christ's sacrifice to the
41:20: Father. It is an abomination that has led to the downfall of millions of souls, and it is based on an orchestrated ignorance even among scholars.
41:30: We will get to that a little bit today, but more so in our next episode. But for now, before we go much farther, we need to revisit the concept of sacrifice in the early
41:40: Church. To the ear of the Protestant, the idea of the Church offering any sacrifice at all sounds wrong, because we have learned, in accordance with the
41:48: Scriptures, to reject any further sacrifice. But we must train our ears to accept what the
41:54: Scriptures prescribe, and the Scriptures do indeed prescribe sacrifices to be performed by the
41:59: Church. I cannot overemphasize the importance of this, especially from an apologetic standpoint.
42:06: If you approach the matter of sacrifice simply by rejecting all sacrifices other than that of Christ, it is the road to Roman Catholicism, because it grants to Rome the prerogative of defining the battlefield.
42:18: What I mean is that the early Church, for centuries immediately following the apostolic era, offered sacrifices, and if you reject those, you not only reject what the
42:28: Scriptures plainly teach about sacrifices, but you will also leave to Rome the prerogative of defining all those sacrifices performed in the early
42:36: Church, and they were indeed called Eucharistic sacrifices. Many a Protestant has stumbled into mortal error by letting
42:43: Rome define the parameters of the sacrifices of the early Church, and Marcus Grodi is just one example.
42:49: All former Protestants who have returned to Rome have stumbled at this point. But let us now wield our most important weapon against the
42:57: Roman apologists, which is the Scriptures, and with that weapon we will take back the battlefield and hold it.
43:03: Through the prophet Malachi, the Lord condemned the unacceptable burnt offerings of the Jews, and foretold a day when, in every place, incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering among the heathen.
43:16: That's Malachi 1, verses 10 -11. Yes, that is the Lord Himself saying that we,
43:22: His Christians, would one day offer sacrifices to Him. Indeed, the apostles left instructions that sacrifices must and would continue under the
43:32: New Covenant, but those new sacrifices would take the forms of praise, the fruit of our lips giving thanks.
43:37: That's Hebrews 13 -15. Doing good works and sharing with others. That's Hebrews 13 -16.
43:44: Spiritual sacrifices. 1 Peter 2 -5. Providing for those in need. Philippians 4 -18.
43:51: And your body is a living sacrifice. Romans 12 -1. Such sacrifices are holy and acceptable.
43:58: Romans 12 -1. 1 Peter 2 -5. And well pleasing to the Lord. Philippians 4 -18.
44:04: Hebrews 13 -16. The spiritual incense that accompanies these spiritual sacrifices is the prayers of the saints offered on an altar in heaven.
44:13: Revelation 5 -8 and 8 verses 3 -4. There is no more offering for sin, according to Hebrews 10 -18.
44:21: But that does not mean there are no more sacrifices at all. A new temple of living stones had been constructed for the very purpose that these new sacrifices would continue, according to 1
44:30: Peter 2 -5. These sacrifices are valid. They are apostolic. They are scriptural.
44:37: We must not forget that. Now, the early church, thus understanding
44:42: Malachi's prophecy and the apostolic instructions, implemented sacrificial offerings accordingly.
44:49: Thanks, praise, hymns, good works, sharing, caring for one another, and prayer.
44:56: These were the early Eucharistic sacrifices, and they were practiced widely throughout Christ's church. And for 300 years, that is all they offered.
45:04: They did not offer Christ's body and blood. The weekly gathering of Christians to participate in the
45:10: Lord's Supper became the venue where those sacrificial offerings were made. Tithes of the harvest were collected for distribution to the poor.
45:17: Thanks were offered to God for his provisions. And from the tithes, baked bread and mixed wine were taken for the celebration of the supper.
45:25: Justin Martyr, writing in the 2nd century, explained that Christians brought the tithes of the harvest weekly.
45:31: The wealthy among us help the needy, and we offer hearty prayers of thanks for all things wherewith we are supplied.
45:38: The tithes were collected and distributed to orphans and widows and all who are in need, and all of this in the setting of the
45:46: Eucharistic liturgy on the day called Sunday. That's Justin Martyr, First Apology, paragraphs 65 and 67.
45:54: We have been taught that the only honor that is worthy of him is not to consume by fire what he has brought into being for our sustenance that is a reference to Malachi 1 .10
46:03: as we just mentioned, but to use it for ourselves and those who are in need that is a reference to Philippians 4 .18
46:10: and with gratitude to him to offer thanks by processions, that is the bringing forward of the tithe, and hymns for our creation, that is a reference to Hebrews 13 .15
46:22: and our teacher of these things is Jesus Christ. My annotated recitation is from Justin Martyr, First Apology, paragraph 13.
46:30: I admit, Justin Martyr concluded, that prayer and the giving of thanks when offered by worthy men are the only perfect and well -pleasing sacrifices to God.
46:40: That's Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Tripho, paragraph 117. In the same century,
46:46: Irenaeus described those same sacrifices referring, of course, to the tithe offering of the saints for the poor appealing to the gift of Epaphroditus in Philippians 4 .18
46:56: providing for the hungry and thirsty in Matthew 25 and caring for the poor in accordance with Proverbs 19 .17
47:02: The new incense we offer is not aromatic smoke offered on an earthly altar, but prayers in accordance with Revelation 5 .8
47:09: and Revelation 8 .4 offered on a heavenly altar. You can find these references by Irenaeus to the new oblation of the new covenant in Against Heresies, Book 4, chapters 17 and 18.
47:21: In the third century, Cyprian of Carthage held that the sacrifice foretold by Malachi 1 .11 was not blood or burnt offerings but rather the sacrifice of praise that's
47:31: Cyprian of Carthage Treatise 12, chapter 1, paragraph 16. Tertullian also in the third century said that the sacrifice prophesied in Malachi 1 .11
47:40: were fulfilled in the ascription of glory and blessing and praise and hymns and simple prayer from a pure conscience that's
47:49: Tertullian against Marcion chapter 3, verse 22 and chapter 4, verse 1 and in his work on prayer
47:56: Tertullian said it is this, prayer, that we bring to God's altar as our sacrifice
48:02: We are the true worshippers and the true priests praying in spirit. We make our sacrifice of prayer in spirit an offering which is
48:11: God's own and acceptable to Him. This is the offering which He has asked for and which
48:16: He has provided for Himself That's Tertullian on prayer chapter 28 Origen, also writing in the third century saw the sacrifice of Malachi 1 .11
48:26: offered neither in a place nor in a land but rather in the heart. That's Origen homilies on Genesis homily 13, paragraph 3.
48:37: Church historian Eusebius asked in the early 4th century what else can Malachi mean but the incense of prayer and not a sacrifice of blood but of good works.
48:47: That's Eusebius of Caesarea, proof of the gospel book 1, chapter 6 Aphrahat of Persia in the mid 4th century testified observe my friends that sacrifices and offerings have been rejected and that prayer has been chosen instead
49:03: That's Aphrahat demonstration 4 on prayer chapter 19 As I have said many times these were apostolic, scriptural, holy acceptable, well -pleasing sacrifices of a grateful church.
49:15: So yes the early church offered sacrifices they just did not offer the Roman Catholic sacrifice of the mass.
49:21: That is they did not offer the body and blood of Christ to the Father. In fact they did not know and could not have known what that Roman Catholic sacrifice was.
49:31: It simply had not entered into the mind of the church to offer Christ's body and blood to the Father, even symbolically
49:39: Now on that note, I want to address one early church father who is cited by Roman Catholics in support of the mass sacrifice.
49:47: We have to address this one particular point for reasons that will be obvious and it's important that Christians be aware of it.
49:53: Here is Cyprian of Carthage writing in the 3rd century and he appears at first to be describing the modern heretical
50:01: Roman Catholic mass sacrifice. Now citing Cyprian of Carthage, epistle 62 paragraph 17
50:09: And because we make mention of his passion in all sacrifices, for the Lord's passion is the sacrifice which we offer we ought to do nothing else than what he did.
50:19: For scripture says, for as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup you do show forth the
50:25: Lord's death till he come. As often therefore as we offer the cup in commemoration of the
50:31: Lord and of his passion let us do what it is known the Lord did. Again, that is
50:37: Cyprian of Carthage epistle 62 paragraph 17 Yes, that is what
50:42: Cyprian said and he said it in the mid 3rd century. He said the Lord's passion is the sacrifice we offer and he said it in the context of the
50:50: Lord's supper. Now let's think through this. Cyprian was the metropolitan bishop over Carthage the metropolis of North Africa As such, he was the highest ranking bishop in a vast territory that spanned from Libya to the
51:03: Atlantic Ocean He was a very prominent metropolitan bishop with a great many bishops under him.
51:09: As I have mentioned in other episodes, the early church gravitated toward a loosely Episcopal hierarchy and in these times the highest ranking bishop in the region was the bishop of the metropolis and in North Africa, that metropolis was
51:22: Carthage and in Carthage that metropolitan bishop was Cyprian. Now before going much further, we must highlight something about Cyprian, something so scandalous and shocking it is hard to believe that it even happened.
51:35: Cyprian was raised by pagans as a pagan and no sooner was he converted to Christianity than he was immediately elevated to the office of metropolitan bishop the very thing the apostle had warned and instructed against for Paul had written that the bishop must not be a novice, lest being lifted up with pride, he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
51:55: That's 1 Timothy 3 .6. Unfortunately Cyprian of Carthage went from being a pagan to a metropolitan bishop almost literally overnight and it is so offensive to the
52:05: Christian mind that his biographer, Pontius the Deacon, had to try to explain why it was not a plain violation of the apostolic prohibition.
52:13: Now citing from Pontius the Deacon The Life and the Passion of St. Cyprian 3.
52:20: The apostles epistle says that novices should be passed over, lest by the stupor of heathenism that yet clings to their unconfirmed minds their untaught inexperience should in any respect sin against God.
52:34: He first, and I think he alone, furnished an illustration that greater progress is made by faith than by time.
52:43: Again, that's Pontius the Deacon, The Life and Passion of St. Cyprian. 3.
52:49: And thus the clear instructions of the apostle were swept under the rug of Cyprian's allegedly rapid sanctification and Cyprian thus took the highest possible office in the church, that of a metropolitan bishop, immediately after his conversion from paganism.
53:04: The reason this matters to us in the discussion on the Eucharist is that the very thing Pontius the
53:10: Deacon was worried about and tried to excuse is what actually came about, namely, by the stupor of heathenism that yet clings to their unconfirmed minds their untaught inexperience should in any respect sin against God.
53:23: For all of his good intentions, Cyprian took the episcopate too soon and had not had time to study the difference between sacrifices, oblations, offerings, memorials, and commemorations.
53:34: And thus, when we read Cyprian, we must understand that we are reading the words of a child, a child who has not yet learned to express himself.
53:42: I will now give two illustrations of this in Cyprian's writings, along with proof that he could not possibly have believed in the
53:49: Roman Catholic sacrifice of the Mass. I would encourage the listener to read everything Cyprian wrote and see what
53:55: I am talking about. I provide a lot more detail in part 5 of my blog series called,
54:01: Their Praise Was Their Sacrifice, and I will provide the link in the show notes. Now, with that said, here is one example in which
54:08: Cyprian says that the names and donations of hard -working Christians should be presented in the sacrifices, by which he clearly means those hard -working
54:17: Christians should be remembered and commemorated in the sacrifices that are offered, not actually offered in the sacrifices.
54:24: Now, citing from Cyprian of Carthage, Epistle 59, paragraph 4, But that you may have in mind in your prayers our brothers and sisters who have labored so promptly and liberally for this needful work, that they may always labor, and that in return for their good work you may present them in your sacrifices and prayers,
54:44: I have subjoined the names of each one, and moreover I have also added the names of my colleagues and fellow priests, who themselves also, as they were present, contributed some little according to their power, in their own names and the name of their people.
55:00: And beside our own amount I have intimated and sent their small sums, all of whom in conformity with the claims of faith and charity you ought to remember in your supplications and prayers.
55:12: Again, Cyprian of Carthage, Epistle 59, paragraph 4. Clearly, in Cyprian's undisciplined thinking, keeping your brethren in mind in your prayers and presenting them in your sacrifices and prayers and remembering them in your supplications and prayers are all the same thing.
55:29: He was not really saying that the brethren and their hard work should be presented in the sacrifices. He was saying that they should be remembered or commemorated in them.
55:38: The next example is similar. This time he refers to two martyrs who have gone to glory and notice that Cyprian says we always offer sacrifices for them celebrating the dates of their martyrdom by commemorating them annually.
55:52: Now citing Cyprian of Carthage, Epistle 33, paragraph 3. Laurentius and Ignatius, who themselves were also once warring in the camps of the world but were true and spiritual soldiers of God, casting down the devil by the confession of Christ, merited palms and crowns from the
56:12: Lord by their illustrious passion. We always offer sacrifices for them, as you remember as often as we celebrate the passions and days of the martyrs in the annual commemoration.
56:23: Again, Cyprian of Carthage, Epistle 33, paragraph 3. Now in several of his other letters,
56:31: Cyprian acknowledges that martyrs have no need of additional sacrifices because they are already in glory and yet here he is offering sacrifices for them.
56:40: Well, it's not that complicated. Cyprian says we offer sacrifices to commemorate the passions of the martyrs.
56:47: Clearly in his undisciplined thinking, offering, sacrificing, and commemorating are all the same thing.
56:53: Just keep that in mind when you read Epistle 62 or when Roman Catholics cite Epistle 62 in which
56:58: Cyprian says we make mention of his passion in all sacrifices for the Lord's passion is the sacrifice which we offer.
57:06: He was a child and should be read as a child and his childish expressions clearly reduce to the simple understanding that praise and thanks are sacrifices and that the thank offering is just as much a part of the memorial as the meal is and in these remembrances we should be thankful for Christ's death and commemorate it.
57:24: That is what Cyprian meant. Just like he said we should present your brethren in your sacrifices and offer sacrifices for martyrs which is to say their martyrdom and good works should be remembered when we contemplate the many things for which we should be grateful.
57:38: And we know this is what Cyprian meant because we also know from Cyprian himself that he knew very well that the
57:44: Lord's Supper was not a sacrifice of Christ's body and blood and that the sacrifice of the church was a sacrifice of praise.
57:51: First listen in epistle 62 as Cyprian denies that Jesus had his own blood in the cup the night before he died.
57:59: Now citing from epistle 62 paragraph 7 and keep in mind that the whole point of the epistle is that some
58:06: Christians had recently been found to be celebrating the Lord's Supper with water instead of wine in order to avoid detection as Christians by the stain of wine on their lips.
58:16: In response Cyprian says we ought to have wine in the cup because that is what Jesus had in his cup.
58:23: We'll pick up where Cyprian has quoted Genesis 49 11 about the blood of the grape and Isaiah 63 2 about the winepress.
58:31: Now citing Cyprian epistle 62 paragraph 7 The treading also and the pressure of the winepress is repeatedly dwelt on because just as the drinking of wine cannot be attained to unless the bunch of grapes be first trodden and pressed so neither could we drink the blood of Christ unless he had first been trampled upon and pressed and had first drunk the cup of which he should also give believers to drink.
58:58: Again Cyprian of Carthage epistle 62 paragraph 7 Now let me just say the obvious this is from the same epistle in which
59:07: Cyprian said that we must offer what Christ offered and his passion is what we offer in the sacrifices and nevertheless
59:14: Cyprian says neither could we drink the blood of Christ unless Christ had first been trampled upon and pressed.
59:21: In other words Christ could not have given his disciples his blood to drink unless he had first been crucified on Friday and therefore whatever
59:29: Christ offered in the cup on Thursday could not be his blood and therefore Christ could not have instituted the
59:35: Roman Catholic sacrifice of the mass on Thursday night. That is not something you would say if you truly believed
59:42: Christ had offered his own blood in the cup and had given his own blood to his disciples to drink the night before he died.
59:51: Additionally when Cyprian of Carthage was writing about the fulfillment of the Malachi 111 prophecy he insisted that the prophecy is fulfilled not in the offering of blood but in the offering of thanksgiving and praise.
01:00:04: In treatise 12 paragraph 16 Cyprian of Carthage says the prophecy of Malachi 111 was also prophesied in Psalm 50 .14
01:00:11: offering to God thanksgiving and in Psalm 50 .23 whoso offereth praise glorifyeth me just think about that Cyprian of Carthage finally gets down to talking about the
01:00:22: Malachi 111 prophecy about the sacrifice that the Gentiles would offer and he says it is a sacrifice of thanksgiving and praise consistent with Hebrews 13 .15
01:00:32: making no mention of Christ's body and blood. That is not something you would say if you believed the sacrifice of Malachi 111 was the offering of Christ's body and blood and soul and divinity to the
01:00:43: Father as Roman Catholics practice today. Now we took this 15 minute diversion on Cyprian because we absolutely must get our history right on the
01:00:52: Eucharist if we are to understand what the early church and in particular Ignatius of Antioch and Justin Martyr said about the bread and wine being
01:01:00: Christ's flesh and blood. Remember we must keep in mind the fact that Marcus Grodi converted back to Roman Catholicism because he thought
01:01:07: Ignatius and Justin taught that the bread and wine of the Lord's Supper is literally Christ's body and blood.
01:01:14: And what is more he thought that the early church was unanimous on that point. What we have established so far is that the early church practiced the sacrifice of thanksgiving and praise and as Eusebius said it was not a sacrifice of blood but of good works all consistent with the
01:01:30: New Testament apostolic teaching on sacrifices. It was simply a tithe offering and from that Eucharistic tithe came the bread and wine of the
01:01:38: Lord's Supper which was then consecrated and eaten. It is important to understand that the
01:01:43: Eucharist as a supper gets its name from the Eucharist as a tithe and that in the early church the tithe offering was called
01:01:50: Eucharist. And to explore that we're going to have to dig deeper a lot deeper.
01:01:56: So I want to help you visualize this as we begin to walk through the liturgy of the early church. So if you can imagine for a moment a liturgy that flows in time from left to right on a typical
01:02:06: Sunday morning. And let's say your left hand is the Eucharist the tithe offering and your right hand is the
01:02:12: Lord's Supper. Now hold your hands in front of you with splayed fingers. If you're driving just leave your hands on the wheel and keep your eyes on the road.
01:02:20: But holding both hands in front of you touch the tips of your thumbs together. For our purposes today let's say the point at which your thumbs are touching together is the moment of consecration during the liturgy.
01:02:32: In the early church that moment was called the consecration or holy prayer blessing or speaking the word of God over the bread and wine as in this is my body broken for you this is my blood which is shed for you or the invocation of the
01:02:46: Holy Spirit or the Epiclesis when the Holy Spirit is asked to make the bread and wine the body and blood of Christ to us.
01:02:54: But for the sake of illustration let's say the point where your thumbs are touching is called the Epiclesis or the consecration that is the blessing of the bread and wine for the meal.
01:03:04: The Eucharistic tithe offering of the early church was always to the left of the Epiclesis and the offering was never called the body and blood of Christ.
01:03:12: And the supper was always to the right but the elements of the supper were never offered or sacrificed.
01:03:18: The offering was complete before the elements were ever called the body and blood of Christ. And by the time the elements were called the body and blood of Christ the offering was already over.
01:03:29: In other words, in the early church the only opportunity to offer anything was before the elements were called the body and blood of Christ.
01:03:36: And likewise the only time the elements were called the body and blood of Christ was at a point in the liturgy when nothing was being offered to God.
01:03:43: To put a finer point on it, in the early church the Roman Catholic mass sacrifice was impossible.
01:03:49: It would take 300 more years for it to come about. And in fact the only way the
01:03:54: Roman Catholic mass sacrifice could be discovered in the Lord's Supper was if the attributes of Christ mentioned in the liturgy began to drift to the left of the
01:04:03: Epiclesis that is, from the right hand to the left, causing it to appear that Christ was being offered in the
01:04:10: Eucharistic tithe, even if only symbolically. Or if the Eucharistic tithe itself began to drift to the right of the
01:04:17: Epiclesis that is, from the left hand to the right causing it to appear that the consecrated elements were being offered in the sacrifice.
01:04:26: As it turns out, that is exactly what happened. And by the middle of the 4th century, we begin to find references to the
01:04:32: Eucharistic tithe offering before the consecration being a propitious sacrifice of things that are in the likeness of Christ.
01:04:40: And even then, the likeness is only symbolic. And then, by the end of the 4th century, the offering itself drifts to the right of the
01:04:47: Epiclesis. And we finally have the Roman Catholic sacrifice of the Mass, in which Christ's alleged actual body and blood are being offered to the
01:04:55: Father for the sins of the world in the Lord's Supper. And what we will discover is that in order to make all this seem to flow from the
01:05:02: Apostles, the propensity of scholarship in the last 1600 years has been to collapse the
01:05:07: Eucharistic tithe offering into the Epiclesis so that the early church is made to appear to be
01:05:13: Roman Catholic. Even Protestants have participated in the deception. I can't emphasize enough how important it is for Christians to know this, not only to understand the history of where the
01:05:24: Roman Catholic sacrifice of the Mass originated, but also to understand how later scholars attempted to obscure its late development by tampering with the early writers to make the
01:05:34: Roman Catholic sacrifice of the Mass appear to originate much sooner than it really did. A lot of information to cover here, but for now, let's walk through 300 years of history to show that the
01:05:45: Eucharist was the tithe offering separate from and prior to the consecration. And it is going to take two episodes to cover it.
01:05:53: So let's get started. Today we'll cover the Gospel accounts, the Didache, Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch, and Justin Martyr.
01:06:03: So, starting with the Gospel accounts in around 30 AD, the Eucharist of thanks was offered before calling the bread and wine his body and blood, not after.
01:06:13: The Eucharist preceded the consecration. Now, in the 40s AD, Paul confirms in 1
01:06:19: Corinthians 11 -24 that the Eucharist happens first, and calling the elements Christ's body and blood takes place afterward.
01:06:26: In 1 Corinthians 14 -16, Paul indicates that it is usual to say amen immediately after the thanksgiving, or Eucharistia.
01:06:34: And in 1 Corinthians 10 -16, he indicates that it is usual to bless the bread and wine immediately before calling it the body and blood of Christ.
01:06:43: It is Paul himself who confirms for us that after the Eucharist there is an amen, and before the elements are called
01:06:49: Jesus' body and blood, there is a blessing or a consecration. The Eucharist and the consecration obviously cannot be the same thing, because the earliest liturgy had a
01:06:58: Eucharist, an amen, a consecration, and a meal. Next we have the
01:07:03: Didache, which is shorthand for the teaching of the 12 apostles, ostensibly dated to the late 1st century.
01:07:10: We note that a rudimentary liturgy is reflected here, and one of the first things we notice is that the liturgy is heavy on the
01:07:18: Eucharistic tithe, but the consecration is omitted, now citing chapters 13 and 14 of the
01:07:23: Didache, on the thanksgiving sacrifice of the early church. Chapter 13,
01:07:30: Support of the Prophets. Every first fruit, therefore, of the products of the wine -press and threshing -floor of oxen and of sheep, you shall take and give to the prophets, for they are your high priests.
01:07:42: But if you have not a prophet, give it to the poor. If you make a batch of dough, take the first fruit and give according to the commandment.
01:07:50: So also, when you open a jar of wine or of oil, take the first fruit and give it to the prophets.
01:07:56: And of money and clothing and every possession, take the first fruit, as it may seem good to you, and give according to the commandment.
01:08:05: Now continue with chapter 14, Christian Assembly on the Lord's Day. But every
01:08:10: Lord's Day, gather yourselves together and break bread and give thanksgiving. Eucharistus ate.
01:08:16: After having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure, but let no one who is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned.
01:08:28: For this is that which was spoken by the Lord. In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice, for I am a great king, says the
01:08:36: Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations. Again, chapters 13 and 14 of the Didache. Just keep in mind that last sentence is a reference to Malachi 111, the prophecy of the sacrifice of the
01:08:48: Gentiles, and the thanksgiving sacrifice in view is obviously the tithe, because the thanksgiving is offered as the first fruits that are brought on the
01:08:55: Lord's Day and set aside for the poor. Earlier in the Didache, there are instructions on how to pray at this point in the liturgy, and please note two things.
01:09:03: The minister takes the cup and gives thanks, and takes the bread and gives thanks. In other words, we are still only talking about the
01:09:11: Eucharist, the thank -offering, and when the author says, let no one eat of your Eucharist, it still has not yet been consecrated, and thus the
01:09:19: Eucharist in that statement still refers to the bread and wine of the thank -offering, not to the
01:09:24: Lord's Supper. Now citing chapter 9 of the Didache, explaining how to pray at the thanksgiving, which is to say, at the
01:09:32: Eucharist. Now concerning the thanksgiving, thus give thanks.
01:09:37: First, concerning the cup, we thank you, our Father, for the holy vine of David your servant, which you made known to us through Jesus your servant.
01:09:46: To you be the glory forever. And concerning the broken bread, we thank you, our Father, for the life and knowledge which you have made known to us through Jesus your servant.
01:09:55: To you be the glory forever. Even as this broken bread was scattered over the hills and was gathered together and became one, so let your church be gathered together from the ends of the earth into your kingdom.
01:10:07: For yours is the glory and the power through Jesus Christ forever. But let no one eat or drink of your thanksgiving, but they who have been baptized into the name of the
01:10:16: Lord. For concerning this also the Lord has said, Give not that which is holy to the dogs.
01:10:22: Again, chapter 9 of the Didache, on the Eucharist. This is important to us for a couple reasons.
01:10:29: First, all we have here is a tithe that is very clearly identified as the sacrifice Malachi had prophesied.
01:10:36: And then the minister takes the cup and gives thanks, and takes the bread and gives thanks. So far, it's just a
01:10:42: Eucharistic tithe of thanks and praise, following the order of the liturgy and the scriptures. And the consecration of the elements has not yet taken place.
01:10:51: Anyone who wants to check my Greek on this can look at the interlinear Didache, the link for which is provided in the show notes.
01:10:58: And so, when it says, but let no one eat or drink of your Eucharist, the clear implication is that the words of consecration have not yet been spoken, and will not be spoken until the bread of the
01:11:08: Eucharistic tithe has been distributed into the hands of the saints, as we are about to see with Justin Martyr, and other representations of the liturgy over the next several hundred years.
01:11:18: And thus, so far, the Eucharist is still the tithe offering. It has not yet been consecrated.
01:11:25: Okay, let's now move forward to the 90s AD with Clement of Rome in his letter to the
01:11:30: Corinthians. In paragraph 38 of his letter to the Corinthians, Clement referred to the tithe offering as the giving of thanks, or Eucharistain, now citing from Clement of Rome to the
01:11:42: Corinthians, paragraph 38. Let the rich man provide for the wants of the poor, and let the poor man bless
01:11:49: God, because he has given him one by whom his need may be supplied. He who made us and fashioned us, having prepared his bountiful gifts for us before we were born, introduced us into his world.
01:12:01: Since therefore we receive all things from him, we ought for everything to give him thanks, Eucharistain, to whom be glory for ever and ever.
01:12:10: Again, that's Clement of Rome to the Corinthians, paragraph 38. Anyone who wants to check my
01:12:16: Greek on this can see Menier's series on the Greek Fathers, volume 1, column 285, which shows that the
01:12:22: Greek word Eucharist is used to describe the tithe offering for the poor. Now, there is an interesting tidbit for us here, and it will be of some interest to us in a moment when we get to Justin Martyr.
01:12:33: It has to do with bringing forward the gifts during the liturgy. According to the letter from Clement, there had been a rebellion against the presbyters who had been elected by the majority of the
01:12:43: Corinthian congregation, and the church had written to Rome for assistance. Clement wrote back and said that it was wrong to eject from the
01:12:50: Episcopate presbyters who had not done anything wrong. Now citing from Clement of Rome, paragraph 44.
01:12:59: Our sin will not be small if we eject from the Episcopate those who have blamelessly and holily offered its sacrifices.
01:13:07: Again, that's Clement of Rome, letter to the Corinthians, paragraph 44. Roman Catholics tend to think that it refers to the sacrifice of the mass, but what it says literally is, our sin will not be small if we eject from the
01:13:21: Episcopate those who have blamelessly and holily brought forward the gifts. Anyone who wants to see the
01:13:27: Greek on that for the word Dora, or gifts, can see Meunier's series on the
01:13:32: Greek Fathers, volume 1, column 300. The word gift there, Dora, is the same word used in Luke 21 .1
01:13:39: to describe the widow's mite, where Jesus saw men casting their gifts, or tithes, into the treasury.
01:13:45: All Clement had done was say that the presbyters had handled the tithe properly and should not be cast out, since they were innocent, honorable men.
01:13:53: And as we will see, the tithes were entrusted to the bishops, and the tithe offering was called the
01:13:58: Eucharist, as the Didache and Clement have indicated. And those gifts, or first fruits, were brought forward during the liturgy for an offering.
01:14:06: Okay, let's proceed with Ignatius of Antioch, and we'll notice exactly the same pattern. Let's return now to Marcus Grodi on Ignatius from 107
01:14:15: AD. He says, "...they abstain from the Eucharist, they meaning the heretics, those outside the church, and from prayer, because they do not confess that the
01:14:25: Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior, Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins, in which the
01:14:32: Father in His goodness raised up again." First, what struck me as I read this the first time, was that the use of the word
01:14:40: Eucharist, thanksgiving, the calling of the Lord's Supper, the
01:14:45: Eucharist. Okay, notice that Grodi has assumed that Ignatius was talking about the
01:14:51: Lord's Supper, but Ignatius wasn't. He was talking about the tithe. There was a time when the first verse of paragraph 7 of the letter to the
01:15:00: Smyrnaeans was actually considered the last verse of paragraph 6, and that means Marcus Grodi is reading the passage out of context.
01:15:07: I'm not going to ascribe any ill will on Marcus Grodi's part. He is just reading it the way it appears to him on the page in the version he has.
01:15:15: But let's read the citation in context, starting in paragraph 6. And notice,
01:15:20: Ignatius' first reference to the Eucharist is clearly and emphatically a reference to the tithe for the poor, the widow, and the stranger.
01:15:28: And he complains that the heretics do not participate in it, because they have no love for the poor. Now, citing from Ignatius of Antioch to the
01:15:35: Smyrnaeans, paragraphs 6 and 7. But consider those who are of a different opinion.
01:15:42: They have no regard for love, no care for the widow or the orphan or the oppressed, of the bond or the free, of the hungry or of the thirsty.
01:15:51: They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our
01:15:56: Savior Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father of His goodness raised up again.
01:16:02: Again, Ignatius of Antioch to the Smyrnaeans, chapters 6 to 7. Notice that when
01:16:08: Ignatius refers to the Eucharist, it is clearly in reference to the tithe offering. The heretics do not participate in the tithe offering, because they have no regard for the widow, the poor, the stranger, etc.
01:16:19: The reason they do not care for the hungry or the poor is because they do not care for the human body. And to our liturgical point, the heretics would never participate in the
01:16:28: Christian liturgy, because part of the liturgy requires them to take the bread and wine from the Eucharistic tithe and recite
01:16:35: Christ's words, This is my body, broken for you, and this is my blood, shed for you.
01:16:41: And the heretics, which Ignatius has in mind here, did not believe that. They did not believe that Christ had a physical body.
01:16:47: So they would never participate in the Eucharistic tithe offering, if the conclusion was to take solid and liquid food and call it
01:16:54: Christ's body and blood, that had suffered and died, and rose from the dead. And of course, the only people in the early church who were allowed to participate in the
01:17:02: Eucharistic tithe offering were they who trusted in Christ and believed in His incarnation, death and resurrection.
01:17:08: In the early church, to confess the bread to be His body and the wine to be His blood was to confess the incarnation.
01:17:14: It was not a confession that the bread became His body or the wine became His blood. This will become much more evident as we move forward, but first let's continue with Justin Martyr from the mid -2nd century.
01:17:26: We'll return now to Marcus Grodi on Justin from about 155 to 156
01:17:32: AD. And he writes in his first apology, Jesus Christ our
01:17:59: Savior was made incarnate by the Word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation.
01:18:06: So too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the
01:18:12: Eucharistic prayer set down by Him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and blood of that incarnated
01:18:23: Jesus. Now, again, this quote emphasizes the unanimous belief in the early church in the belief in the reality of the body and blood of Christ in the
01:18:37: Eucharist. Okay, now let's just think about this for a second. So far, we have seen the
01:18:43: Didache, which said that the Eucharistic tithe should not be administered to people who have not been baptized into Christ, and Ignatius has said people of a different opinion do not participate in the
01:18:54: Eucharistic tithe. What we will find is that Justin Martyr is saying exactly the same thing, so let's take a look.
01:19:01: First, listen as Justin Martyr acknowledges that the Eucharist is a tithe offering for the poor.
01:19:06: Now citing Justin Martyr, First Apology, paragraph 13. He has no need of streams of blood and libations and incense, whom we praise to the utmost of our power by the exercise of prayer and thanksgiving, for all things wherewith we are supplied, as we have been taught that the only honor that is worthy of him is not to consume by fire what he has brought into being for our sustenance, but to use it for ourselves and those who need, and with gratitude to offer thanks by processions and hymns for our creation, and for all the means of health, and for the various qualities of the different kinds of things, and for the change of the seasons, and to present before him petitions for our existing again in incorruption through faith in him.
01:19:49: Again, Justin Martyr, First Apology, paragraph 13. Notice that Justin Martyr has identified the tithe offering, the
01:19:59: Eucharist, as the sacrifice and prayers prophesied by Malachi. When he says he has no need of streams of blood and libations and incense, and the best way to sacrifice to him is not to consume by fire what he has brought into being for our sustenance, he is referring to Malachi 1 .10
01:20:18: which says, Rather, the best way to sacrifice to him now is to use what he has provided for the needs of others, a well pleasing sacrifice according to Philippians 4 .18.
01:20:39: And when he says that the best way to do this is to offer thanks with processions and hymns for our creation, it's about thanking
01:20:45: God for providing for us. And those processions refer to bringing forward the tithe offerings as described by Clement of Rome, who said the presbyters have faithfully brought forward the gifts.
01:20:56: Again, we are talking about the Eucharist, and by Eucharist he means the tithe offering. Okay, when
01:21:02: Justin gets to the liturgy he says only people who are baptized can participate in the thanksgiving offering.
01:21:09: And he explains that everyone comes together and offers thanks and then bread and wine are brought forward and the minister gives even more thanks and then the people do exactly what
01:21:18: Paul described. They say amen after the thanksgiving. Here is Justin Martyr again, now in paragraph 65 of his first apology.
01:21:45: And when he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, that is the prayers and the Eucharist, all the people present express their assent by saying amen.
01:21:55: And when the president has given thanks and all the people have expressed their assent those who are called by us deacons give to each of those present to partake of the bread and wine mixed with water over which the thanksgiving was pronounced and to those who are absent they carry away a portion.
01:22:12: Again, that's Justin Martyr. First Apology, paragraph 65. And notice carefully that people have said amen to the thanksgiving just as Paul described it in 1
01:22:23: Corinthians 14 16 and then that food is distributed to the saints but no consecration has yet been pronounced.
01:22:30: And this is where Marcus Grodi picks up his citation of Justin Martyr. And notice, Justin is still talking about unconsecrated food.
01:22:38: It has been Eucharisted but it has not yet been consecrated. Now continuing with Justin Martyr in the very next sentence which is chapter 66 of the
01:22:47: First Apology. And this food is called among us the
01:22:53: Eucharist of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true.
01:23:00: And who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins and unto regeneration and who is so living as Christ has enjoined.
01:23:09: Okay, so far the tithe has been offered, the minister has taken the bread and given thanks and taken the cup and given thanks and the people have said amen to the thanksgiving and it has even been distributed to those who are in attendance but still there has been no consecration.
01:23:24: Nobody has said this is my body broken for you and this is my blood poured out for you. So it is still the
01:23:30: Eucharist. Now let's continue and notice that Justin finally introduces the consecration after the
01:23:36: Eucharist has been distributed. Continuing now in paragraph 66 of his first apology. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these but in like manner as Jesus Christ our
01:23:49: Savior having been made flesh by the word of God had both flesh and blood for our salvation so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of his word and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who has made flesh.
01:24:08: For the apostles in the memoirs composed by them which are called gospels have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them that Jesus took bread and when he had given thanks said do this in remembrance of me this is my body and that after the same manner having taken the cup and given thanks he said this is my blood and gave it to them alone.
01:24:31: Again chapter 66 of Justin Martyr's first apology. In this context
01:24:37: Justin has said that the food that is distributed to believers is Eucharist because so far it is still only bread and wine over which the thanksgiving was pronounced but it has not yet been blessed by the prayer of his word which is to say it still has not been consecrated and this is where we have to correct the translator.
01:24:56: The English rendering says the food which is blessed by the prayer of his word becomes Jesus flesh and blood but that rendering obscures
01:25:04: Justin Martyr's plain language showing that the Eucharist preceded the consecration. In the
01:25:09: Greek it says by the prayer of his word the Eucharist food becomes the flesh and blood of Jesus.
01:25:15: Just keep that in mind when the food is distributed it is food over which the thanksgiving was pronounced.
01:25:22: That is it is Eucharist food. Just like when Jesus Eucharist the bread and wine before distributing it to his disciples.
01:25:30: It is only after it is consecrated that the Eucharist food then becomes the body and blood of Christ.
01:25:36: The Eucharist preceded the consecration. Anyone who wants to check my Greek on that may look it up in Migny's series on the
01:25:43: Greek Fathers, Volume 6, Columns 328 and 329. It shows that the liturgy of the early church followed the pattern of Christ at the supper.
01:25:51: Thanks is pronounced over the food which is therefore the Eucharist and then Eucharist food is distributed to those present and is blessed by the prayer of his word which is the consecration.
01:26:02: Next week we will pick up with Irenaeus where we find exactly the same pattern. That is that the
01:26:07: Eucharist refers to the tithe offering. But that is where we will have to leave off today. When we return we will continue with the
01:26:14: Eucharist as the tithe offering until we arrive in the late 4th century when the attributes of Christ began to be manifested to the left of the
01:26:23: Epiclesis. And finally the sacrifice itself moves to the right of the Epiclesis and the abominable, heretical,
01:26:30: Roman Catholic late 4th century mass sacrifice finally came into existence.
01:26:35: Thank you very much for listening to what is very difficult and dense material. But unless Protestants understand the origin of the terms mass and Eucharist, they will not be able to anticipate and deconstruct
01:26:46: Roman Catholic attempts to find their abominable mass sacrifice in the early church. And they will continue to fall for arguments like that of Marcus Grodi whose ignorance of the early church is on display even as he tries to prove how much he knows about it.
01:27:00: And as we proceed with the Eucharist and the Lord's Supper we will continue to see repeated emphasis by the early writers that the bread and wine of the
01:27:07: Supper are just symbolic of the real thing and are not offered to God in the Supper. We have a lot of history left to explore.
01:27:15: Irenaeus of Lyons, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian of Carthage, Hippolytus of Rome, the
01:27:21: Didascalia, Origen of Alexandria, Cornelius of Rome, Dionysius of Alexandria, the
01:27:26: Council of Nicaea, and Julius of Rome until we finally see the Roman Catholic sacrifice of the mass emerge in the latter part of the 4th century with Syril of Jerusalem, Serapion of Thimois, Gregory of Nazianzen, Gregory of Nysa, and Ambrose of Milan.
01:27:44: That is when we finally see the sacrifice of the liturgy moved to the right of the Epiclesis after the consecration and that is the beginning of the
01:27:52: Roman Catholic mass sacrifice, what they erroneously call the Eucharist. This is
01:27:58: Timothy F. Kaufman and you have been listening to Episode 8, The Conversion of Marcus Grodi, Part 3.
01:28:05: Thank you for listening to The Diving Board. We'll see you next time.