Responding to Dallas Jenkins Statement on Mormonism, and Other Disturbing Church Scandals

Apologetics Live

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This is apologetics live to answer your questions your host from striving for eternity ministries

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All right, we are live tonight

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I just want to welcome everybody to another exciting adventurous Discussion in an apologetics realm with apologetics live and we got brother

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Anthony Silvestro his show. Oh, how are you doing first time? I'm not a show together in a while.

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It's been a long time Yeah Yeah, we've been we've been doing a lot of shows just kind of like, you know

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What do you call it ships in the wind or ships crash crossing in the wind? Whatever it is.

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Yeah. Yeah, it's been a while One thing I do have to point out is that we accidentally have deleted the video clip

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The intro clip that has all three of us as the intro partners and it just says, you know

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The the older one and we got to get that fixed because that we do I noticed that That's not gonna work.

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It's it's a Andrew Anthony and Justin and and then also we also have another another brother

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That he shows up every once in a while. You guys don't know him and I want to introduce you guys to this guy

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He's he's the crocodile hunter. I mean Alligator hunter that what is that what that is in the back?

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Yeah, it is an alligator. Yes an alligator this is dear dear dear brother, Justin Peters, my twin brother, you know, he's

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Looking good, brother. Thank you. Y 'all too What is it you've been doing here lately there was something that you just finished up doing

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I can't remember what it was It's like a some some small conference like a hundred people or so Yeah.

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Yeah, there were a few folks that showed up to the truth matters conference That was held at the

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Ark encounter Hosted by Grace to you and of course arc answers in Genesis and yeah, it was it was a good time.

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It really was it's very encouraging feedback from folks good good few days of fellowship good mixture of presentations and Conjoined it.

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It was good Yeah, I'll tell you I didn't know what to expect out of this conference It was it was kind of all over the board in terms of it was it was great

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But there wasn't like us I think the central theme was supposed to be social justice, but There was there was a lot of topics talked about it.

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It was it was excellent, though Yeah. Yeah, I enjoyed it. It was it was good mixture,

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I guess and broad and yeah I think that kind of the overall theme was social justice, but they asked me to speak on mysticism and so I'm I mean that had a little social justice thrown in there because to come to the conclusion of Social justice from scripture.

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You've got to have a mystical hermeneutic to do that So, oh, yeah.

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Oh, yeah what now no While you guys have been gone and doing conferences whatnot Josiah and I've been kind of holding down the fort talking about the critical race theory and the social justice train and how that You know the transgender

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LGBTQ and all the indoctrination and stuff going on from the Marxist Background and this guy he's he's holding a book up.

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What's his name? Oh, sorry. Oh, yeah. He's reading a book. So So Josiah, we've been trying to hold that down talking about You know just the social justice and the critical race theory and stuff

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So yeah, we've got and we actually discovered we probably have enough for another another um

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Video to do on that, you know talking about the indoctrination going on We just had everybody heard we had a big shootout thing going uh down in texas and And everybody's want you know wanting to run around Claiming, you know that they they know the answer to what happened and and they want to they know how that they can fix this

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And that then you know, the problem is is it's the deceitful heart of man You have a person that's completely denied god who's who's lived in a world of denying god who's being taught to deny god

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There is no reason for living he's bought into the whole indoctrination of his

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His gender identity his sexual identity his worth his value and he is he he's allowed himself to become just demented and we're going to find out that just like Everyone else he's going to be used as a pawn in the political agenda

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And uh, it's not gonna it's not gonna end there we're gonna see these things happening over and over again as the world, you know seeks to destroy itself and so But but you think how many how many people died so far in that?

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How many 21 so far How many people die in abortion every day

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You know 3500 And so one's a tragedy and the other's not you know, it's it's like, you know one's one's a a civil riot now and Living in a messed up world

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It's funny. It's funny to talk about that one of the local news stations in our area um had a put out a story regarding the uh, the

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Missing baby formula right mom's trying to find baby formula can't find it and their babies are going to starve and uh

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And so of course I with the snarkiness I like to have at times. I I wrote a comment underneath the the article

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That's uh, basically said hey Maybe we should go ask the liberals where all our baby form is at because we're finding it in ukraine and also at our borders

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Yep to which somebody responds and says, you know, how dare you not not appreciate life and And uh and not care about those those people coming across the border

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I remember how what she phrased it wasn't undocumented illegals like we would call them but uh She she phrased it a certain way and to which

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I said Do you believe in abortion I guess her answer is

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Of course, of course, right? She believes in the freedom of choice for women. Well, then you don't actually care about life.

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Do you? so But these are always the contradictions we see in a world view

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That is not god right outside of a biblical scope of biblical understanding There's always contradictions in there

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Oh, yeah, absolutely, you know one thing I want to point out here is uh, you know bond servant melissa

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She said that your somebody's computer kept messing up At this conference and and and we just finished talking about this a minute ago

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What what what was it that you had what happened you got you got to tell us what happened? Yeah, so i'm about I don't know 10 or 12 minutes into my presentation and uh,

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I was I I was clicking the down arrow key for my next little graphic to pop up And it wasn't popping up and I thought what in the world is going on and then all of a sudden

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I see this message on my mac says uh, your computer is your computer is shutting down or restarting due to a problem or something and it just like Like There it goes and I mean out of the blue no warning and I switched from a pc to a mac for this very reason

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Go to a mac. They said they won't do that. They said they never have problems. They said they don't

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Except for when you're in the middle of one of the biggest conferences you've ever done I know one of the biggest conferences i've ever done.

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Um Yeah, and and i'm in the middle of my presentation of the truth matters conference with john macarthur sitting on the front row

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My mac just said okay, we're done Oh wow, it just shuts down and I wonder if you just got a lemon justin because remember we had problems with your computer

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At my church when we did the conference together last september We had problems with your computer at casey's pastor casey's church last may when we did a conference together and andrew.

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Yeah, I remember that This is a new one. This is a new laptop another new one. Oh, wow

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Well, maybe there's a maybe there's a mac mac attack going after you. That's what it is mac attack.

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I yeah Yeah I don't know. I if I if I if I had a little bit of a charismatic ben i'd say it was some

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Some demons running around. It's the gremlins. That's what it is The gremlins did did you have did you did you get to do anything for them, you know to to abide the time, you know

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Do some pops and willies or do anything like that, you know Yeah, while I was waiting on it, uh, not knowing if this thing was going to start back up or not

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I was just like, oh, well, I I don't know any card tricks I mean, I just Maybe todd bentley can drop kick it into a wall for you.

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I mean that Or or what's that? What's that guy's name that did the kick in the baby thing? What was that that were claimed?

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I talked about uh But then todd white used to bring up the story a bunch of times.

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I'm sorry. Todd bentley brought up the story a bunch of times Yeah, yeah, he did. Yeah, todd. Todd bentley, uh learned what he does now from Smith wigglesworth smith wigglesworth.

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That's the name. That's the name smith It was in my mind and just about to come out of my mouth when you said it

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Yeah, and then of course drew drew vanita He he had to jump in and steal our thunder because he had to write write it down Because he was waiting for us to say it before he typed.

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Yeah, drew's right. It was smith smith wigglesworth was a british Well, I think he was originally from wales.

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But um, yeah faith healer in the in the first half of the 20th century so like, you know 19 20s and 30s and and um

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He was known for kicking people kicking and punching people. He claimed to be able to see the demon The if you have cancer you got the demon of cancer attached to you demon of arthritis demon of you know, whatever and uh, the only way to dislodge said demon, of course is to Kick it off of people punch it off of people

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Just like that. So that's what jesus did in the morning. That's right Exactly like you did.

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Yeah. Yeah, and you have to think about it though. That's that's a perfect segue into what we're going to be talking about because if you think about people that teach false teaching and false doctrine or Adhere to different things that we got to hold up before we jump into that.

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Oh, yeah There's a question that came to me that we have to address first. Okay, go ahead before we jump into all this

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See, I had a perfect segue. It was a perfect setup and I had to ruin it. I'm sorry. I messed it all up Okay, go ahead.

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Okay. So so I want to give just a moment of background here Is uh, there was a post that somebody put out

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Oh, maybe five days ago that says if sending christian kids into public schools to be little missionaries worked it would have worked

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That's all that because that's that's the common thing that christians will say that my kids are going to go be salt and light in The public schools or they're they're they're little missionaries.

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This is their mission field, which is absolute nonsense and so, uh, we all know that kids

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Well, let me read my post that I I reposted it and put this out there I said sending christian kids to public school in many christian schools is like sending a baby sheep into a pack of starving wolves

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Not to mention the majority of christian parents who send their kids to public school would get schooled by christian cults and agnostics and atheists themselves

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The church overall is way under prepared to give an apologetic and evangelize the world Yet expect there are even more unprepared kids to do so in a hostile god -hating public school environment

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So that was my that was my post Got a lot of attention, even though i'm like terribly shadow banned and ever and have been since like last september

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When I started posting against homosexuality and transgenderism pretty regularly But I bring all this up because I got a very sincere post from someone or i'm sorry a facebook private facebook message um somebody

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I know um Who who sent this to me and and here's the post that this person?

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Email would like answered um from us tonight So she said this

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I saw your post on christians sending kids to public schools, which actually I totally agree with so she agrees

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With the post I would love to homeschool and think it's completely better. I do ask

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What about people like me where I am christian? My husband is not and he doesn't currently live with us because he is an alcoholic and doesn't want to stop doing all these things

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I work full time so I cannot homeschool or afford christian school. I do study and reading with my kids every day

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I'm honest about the things that are trying to be indoctrinated and tell the truth about what god says We are a part of bib and we are also a part of a biblical local church

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What else would you suggest me to do? So this is somebody who is a is in a situation that is in a really difficult situation

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Yeah Now this is not somebody who look there's plenty of people that we've talked to we've come across who husband and wife both work and they they can afford a number of nice things in life that look we would all like to have and But the reality is is they often are doing this at the expense of their children

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Where they're both working not because they need to to make ends meet but because they want the extras in life

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Whereas maybe the wife should not work stay home and raise the children Um the way she's called to do and for the father to provide and then also to pour into the children at home

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So we're not talking about that situation, right? We're talking about one where Essentially single mom.

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So what what does she do? What can she do to try to battle against what she's dealing with their kids in public school?

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Well, um, i'm gonna jump in and weigh in on this. Um I i've got four kids that have been through christian school.

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I've never had my kids in in Um private or public school. I've never done it.

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I refuse to do it um Let me just weigh in as a parent who has

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The children and it's been my conviction to never have them in public school so we started out of the christian school and it ended up being really bad, uh, we had the we had people that were

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You know the financial overseers that were doing bad stuff They were stealing money and there were women at the at the school that were involving themselves with the teenage boys um

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When I took it to the administration, they knew about it and were covering it up so Those those, you know sinners sin and they're going to sin and they're going to infiltrate

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You know anywhere you go. So i'm i'm not saying That every single association that you're going to get involved with, you know, when a public public or private school is going to be a good thing

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Okay, so you have to be very careful About where you send your kids. So that's first thing but secondly when we decided okay, we've had enough

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We're strictly going home school. Um, we started looking into different Programs, you know anthony and I we talked about this a lot and uh, we started with monarch.

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Uh monarch a Aoc, I believe it is And i'll pull it up and find it.

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Um and then my children started two years ago going full -time to um

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Going through the monarch program. It is a It is a computer -based program All of the material is on the computer.

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You can do All the stuff they have right on the computer um Christian -based it's uh, uh incredible program and my kids have completely excelled at it uh, they've excelled at it and Another suggestion

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I want to ask what would add to Is if you decide to go down any of these routes talk to your pastor talk to your church and ask them if they can help because I'd be surprised if they don't have some type of fund where they could actually help you or they couldn't come up with a fund to help in this situation given your

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Your situation there. Yeah, whatever you guys got Yeah, I I think that's a great starting point and i'll throw a couple comments up here

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Um kt and jesus says there may be another family who would help or a co -op So maybe there's another church family that people you're close with you trust that um are already homeschooling their kids and maybe you could

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Pay them a little bit to To homeschool your child as well. That's that's certainly a possibility.

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Um drew vanita Uh, he might be he might be winning comments of the day today If he we keep putting him up here

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But is there another family in the local church is homeschooling or they might be able to help their kids same same thing here um

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Here's stephanie link who says may many or make many kids did private school and scholarships

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Um only paid 300 for two kids So that might be an idea to check the christian schools in the area to see if they have hardship cases or or scholarships

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That are available. Those are all great Great thoughts um, and then before we get to justin and justin peters and josiah

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Von serving for jesus says what about when he can't teach a subject like advanced math? Well what justin and I have talked about justin pierce and i've talked about in the past is that um

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There's great great christian homeschooling programs out there For the first six years or so for anthony we used a becca

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Granted it's from penn school christian. It's you have to deal with the fact that's kjv only deal of fact

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That's going to be slightly arminian. Although that really doesn't come out in their curriculum um, and they're they're slightly legalistic, which

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Doesn't really come out in their curriculum either. But but just to know that's the background But a very good program early on and then we have switched since then to bob jones

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Which is uh considered one of the best all around homeschooling programs that are out there Both in the sciences and the english side of things

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Um, what's unique about these two programs is that you can either do it live um on the computer like like justin's monarch where you're

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In class but online and in class and ask live questions But you also have the option with certain programs like a becca at early ages and bob jones later on Where you can get the videos dvds ahead of time so you can pop the dvd in and it's if the teacher is teaching your child

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While sitting right there Um, and so even if you aren't good in some of the advanced subjects, they already have the videos

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They have all the workbooks. They have all the tests Uh quizzes all the answer keys

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It is really easy for a parent to follow to be able to do all this stuff And I promise you whatever you do in homeschooling

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Will be far superior what you will get in any even college prep courses in a high school so it is it is

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Absolutely Excellent. And uh, but and these are just these aren't the only programs There's a there's a boatload of them out there and they're actually very reasonably priced

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So I just wanted to throw that out there and then open it up to josiah and justin Um Yes, you want to go ahead and justin

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Oh, I don't I don't know really what else I can contribute to that all other than just kind of a general i'm

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All for homeschooling, I think the public schools are just an absolute wasteland back when I was in public school

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I mean, I got a yeah, I got a pretty good education A lot of my teachers went to my church and but it's it's just a different world

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It's a different world today. Um so But drew drew has a good idea.

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There has come in another another family in their local in her local church that would might be able to to help but um

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Yeah, it really said situation Uh, I my heart goes out to her.

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She she feels probably abandoned and alone Uh from her husband, but my heart really breaks for for her in her situation

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And yeah co -opting Is a is an option if you have a family in the church you can trust

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Um, I know a lot of co -op families in our our area that Uh that are based out of churches and uh, the the best thing about any kind of Private schooling or homeschooling

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Um, you want to be making sure you get your kids get the gospel every day all the time just Have it poured into them so that maybe they'll repent and trust in jesus that's the that's one of the big things about homeschooling is you're trying to Um, bring your kids to christ

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Yep Amen to that you know one thing that I want to make sure that is is is put out there too is

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When a child is in public school, they are in school for seven to eight hours a day

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And they're being indoctrinated the entire time right that is and that's independent of if they come home watch secular tv

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Secular movies commercials magazines, right? They're getting indoctrinated Everywhere, um, you go to the you go to the shopping mall and walk around and you see worldly stuff everywhere, you know soft

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It's essentially soft pornography in a lot of windows in uh in shopping malls, so so we're inundated with this everywhere and public schools are

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Are the worst you only watch the news in the last several months and you recognize how evil

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That has become inside the schools has been doing this for a long time. We just are finding out about it now

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Actually, it's a one probably the only good thing about covet is that it exposed parents To what was being taught to their students when they were watching those online screens during that time

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It opened up a lot But having said all that what are some resources you guys recommend?

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Let's say she she can't do any of the suggestions we gave at least right now What are things that that she can do some of the things

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I really enjoy is um, paul washer's workbooks I think are very simple easy to do.

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He's got a number of them. That's uh, that can be done in discipling your kids I I absolutely love those when anthony was a lot younger,

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I really liked the sinclair ferguson books that like it was like the Big book of questions and answers or something.

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He has several of those Those were really good early on answers in genesis. Also some good kids books

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After that, what else do you guys? um Recommend for resources that could be really helpful well the with the monarch and i've been saying monarch a lot because you know, you know, you just you know, we've already talked about the the

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The um abeca program and things like that. Those are really good homeschool programs. You can get books.

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In fact, you can get those books used For from anywhere just almost for free uh, a lot of churches, uh, a lot of homeschool parents will give

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Away those those books, uh to churches so there is that um but like I said monarch again, but they have what's called the ignite christian academy

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And it's a full online academy. It's accredited the whole thing, you know, like uh, anthony was talking about You don't you don't teach the kids you send them to school right there and Uh, they're at your house and they're learning they're learning

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Uh the biblical curriculum, you know, I mean my kids are learning bible um I actually sat with my son a 15 year old.

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He's 15 now, by the way birthday was the other day so my 15 year old sitting with his uh, um, uh

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Bible and new testament professor and he's talking about way of the master I'm going you're crazy.

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He's like, yeah, he's going through way of the master and stuff knows justin peters and i'm like doesn't know you personally but you know knows the ministry and stuff like that and he's just You know, he's as giddy as can be and they were talking and they're going through Um several the books and stuff and it's just they really are encouraged to uh to grow and I think what

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I love about it the most personally is Every time I went to school anywhere

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I went to school you read through about half to three quarters of the book You learn through that and then the next year you do half or three quarters of the book

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And the next year you're half or three quarters, but you're not actually learning the entire curriculum You're just learning a portion of it while the teacher's screaming and yelling and fighting with all the other kids and it just you know

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It's just a royal rumble amongst trying to teach a couple of nuggets And this you go through the entire book and for All of the every single one of them every class everything the entire book and these kids

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He comes up and he's asking me. Hey dad in this quantum trigonometry Slash physics.

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So the you know i'm going what? I mean, he's so far over my head. I was like You know

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He's a ninth grade. I'm just man Yeah Oh, yeah Well, you know while we're talking about this, um israel wayne just popped in who i've had a pleasure of meeting not too long ago

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When I was uh doing a preaching tour out in idaho and then we met again in florida a couple weeks ago

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But uh israel is is an excellent apologist for anybody who doesn't know him He's been pigeonholed in the homeschooling movement.

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He knows homeschooling really really well And um, we are going to get him on a show here in the near future

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And uh gonna pick his brain for two hours on on homeschooling. So i'm really excited about that show

25:26

Um, but that'll be coming up here soon. So thanks for joining in israel Well before we get started, um,

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I know that you guys i'm not going by the way, but I want to promote this one thing Because anthony's going to forget it

25:38

And I want to make sure since justin's here brother you guys are doing an israel trip and uh israel 23, uh 2023 israel tour .com

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And can you guys can you guys talk about this for a minute? You know, well, there's a there's a striving fraternity one with with karm.

25:56

So andrew and matt slick are leading one and uh, that one is sold out, but there are spots available for the uh,

26:03

What do you call it for anybody who would drop out? These would be the first ones in chances are 10 to 15 percent 10 to 15 will drop out before next year and Those who are in those first Those who are who are on the wait list will be able to get in um, justin is is doing one with his old pastor jim osmond and a few other people which

26:25

I believe that that has not been open to the public yet If i'm not mistaken Correct.

26:31

Yeah There's still another week or two to see if any more of jim's church members are going to go before you open that to the public yeah,

26:37

I think so, I think there's just a few spots left and yeah, we'll see if those get get filled before we make a big announcement for it, but Yeah, so I would go with you guys.

26:50

I would go with you guys, but i'm going doug bookman and he's Uh the seminary they're taking us over there and teaching us for two weeks straight day and night

26:58

And taking us in all kinds of little nooks and crannies and stuff and i'm like i'm all for it Oh, i'm so excited.

27:05

Yeah Yeah, we were gonna go on the trip and my wife said she doesn't want to go out of the country to have somebody shove something up her nose on her way back in so She's like I don't want to go to israel anymore.

27:16

Like oh, okay, we won't go. Okay. Well, that's fine So tricia, um before and then justin's going to jump right into our topic for tonight

27:24

How do I send this to my nephew with kids? He needs to see this later after he gets home from work. You can go on to striving for eternity .com

27:31

or apologetics live .com and then i'll take you right to the page And you'll be able to find the youtube link on there and be able to send it to Whomever you would like to send it to Yeah, send send this to everybody guys.

27:43

One thing that i'm going to tell you about Uh before we start, I know we keep on saying before we start but All of us here are getting banned and shadow banned and blacklisted

27:53

From having content on facebook. I can prove it You go to true social and you put stuff on there and it just blows up I mean people all over the place are seeing it

28:02

When you have christian content that you post on on Facebook and even on youtube a lot of time this stuff is is either outright blocked or the

28:12

Uh, I actually was I actually posted a thing on on facebook, uh from john mccarthur, uh sermon

28:19

Just a clip from him and I was it was told it was offensive took it down and threatened me to To kick me completely off of facebook if I did it again

28:29

So I had to I had to appeal it but you know, that's what's going on so share this stuff, please, you know

28:36

Yep, that's right Okay, justin you got a big topic for tonight and and I gotta be honest with you

28:43

I I run into people all the time who love this series who know nothing about it

28:50

And so I am really excited when I saw you were going to do this show want to do this show Like I am i'm all hyped up i've got all my own research here ready to go as well, but i'm looking forward to this

29:01

So so tonight tonight For tonight only and then probably next week and the week after constantly more and more and more we're going to be talking about Uh, the chosen creator dallas jenkins.

29:14

He clarifies. This is his definitive declaration to clarify his views on the question are

29:24

Mormons are mormons Christians and he actually said that and I think i've i've counted like seven or eight different interviews

29:35

Where he's he's done that and he's actually has said it Uh over and over again, but he keeps saying

29:40

I didn't really say it that way. Let's nuance it So what it is I pulled up this article um from the christian post

29:48

And because I want to give credit where credit's due Uh, I don't usually promote the christian post because there's not much christian about it, but Um, they're actually got a few things in here.

29:58

We're going to talk about so dallas jenkins The creator of the chosen

30:07

He uh was has been asked many times about uh The mormons and they and as I as I recall guys, they don't like being called mormons anymore, right?

30:17

Is that right? Do they want to be called they don't three years ago new vision

30:23

And uh, and they're no longer to be called mormon. So now it's Just the church jesus christ latter -day saints a new vision

30:31

A new vision. Yeah, we're gonna talk about that first Yeah, you ought to put that in one of your future video clips.

30:36

Justin. Yeah, you you should yeah. Yeah, I should You're right. You're right.

30:42

Well, but but why is it why is it? I mean you said the words Why is it that Somebody can say they had a new vision

30:49

And it's a definitive statement for all the mormon church The reason is is because they get direct revelation.

30:57

The president Gets direct revelation as if god was speaking through him

31:03

Yeah Well, that's what they believe. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so this is a continuationist idea that you have, you know non -cessationist you have

31:13

Uh, the elo the the god of mormonism And and now they say well, you can't say we're mormons anymore.

31:20

Well, the reason for it Is because all the baggage with mormonism, so they say oh, well, we got to get rid of that So we're a church just like you christians are part of the christian church

31:31

We're christians too. Just like you're part of christian church Yeah, and let's be really clear as we walk into this right is that is that 20 years ago?

31:42

Catholics joe's witnesses mormons and others never claimed to be christian, right? They claim to be what they what they were

31:48

Yeah, that's right But it's only been in recent times as part of their their heavy evangelistic mindset to bring people into their cults

31:56

That they have been calling themselves christians to try to pick off the the low -hanging fruit, so to speak

32:02

So and that's important because when you're talking about the chosen Let me ask you guys. Have you guys watched any of the any of the the shows?

32:09

No, I refuse to I know all the stuff in the background so i'm not going to give uh, you know

32:14

How many any I had my money it'd be like it'd be like listening to hill song and I already got I already had to listen to justin peters.

32:21

Just go off about anybody listening to hill song or well Here's the difference

32:26

I actually did Watch him Well, josiah and I talked about this.

32:33

We've been doing as much research on as we can and Here's the difference, you know what appeals to the chosen that didn't appeal to hill song

32:45

They know That you and me and others Are going to be Studying the scripture looking at the bible and comparing it and so they're not they don't have

32:56

Outright blatant mormon teaching and flaws in it. That's not the purpose of the chosen Right, that's not the purpose.

33:03

The purpose is to get you Comfortable with the lds church and to go to their website because Who is it that starts the support for them?

33:15

And lds ministry. Yeah They are trying to use this as a seedbed to get you to come into the church to understand more doctrine to allow that they actually have a

33:27

A website and I can't I can't find it, but they actually have a website Where you can come off of the chosen?

33:36

website you can go on to the the lds and You can sign up to have some of their elders come and talk to you and do a bible study with you

33:46

Yeah now if that's not fishing, I don't know what is you know, so so here's the question though Let's be fair about this right and and listen to some of dallas's words, which by the way, um are really painful

33:58

He's I I watched enough of his videos today and my ears want to bleed now.

34:03

I've got I can pull this I the purpose of communication is is to speak with clarity

34:12

Right, I mean well for somebody to understand what i'm telling them I need to make sure they understand what

34:18

I actually believe and what i'm trying to communicate In in you know, I psalm 119 130 the unfold this is about god the unfolding of your words gives light

34:27

It imparts understanding to the simple right god's word is meant to be clear to us

34:33

In in our understanding starting with a gospel first and foremost and and so Us being made the image of god and when we claim to be christians as dallas jenkins does

34:47

You are to speak with clarity That's right God's way

34:53

Clarity. No, no, you mean the word nuance you mean nuance? Sorry. Yeah, right. I mean nuanced

34:59

Yeah, let me nuance let me nuance the gospel for you The nuance is that christ died for our sins in accordance with scriptures

35:05

He was buried. He was raised on the third day in accordance. The scriptures is not by works Lest you may boast right?

35:10

I mean this is clarity when we speak So when we finish this and we're not going to listen to 16 minutes or just a few minutes

35:19

We won't we're just to get just so that you understand what he's saying When we're finished

35:24

I want to ask each of you a question And I want to hear how you're supposed to answer are you willing to answer it?

35:32

Okay, here we go. Here we go Hey there, it's dallas and uh, I was hoping that I wouldn't have to do this

35:39

But I think because of the growth in awareness of the show around the world there has also been a significant increase in the number of articles written about it the number of videos posted the number of posts done on social media comments on social media and There has been an increased amount of attention given not only to the show itself lately

36:01

But to a comment that I made several years ago That I probably need to add a little clarification to and this is what we kind of call the lds issue the lds question when it comes to the chosen and the reason that I want to give this, uh statement or this comment, um and have it be my final comment on the matter because i've given dozens and dozens of comments about it that Seem to be unfortunately ignored by several people.

36:26

Um, but uh It's because I I do believe that it's healthy to for there to be some level of clarity for people who are wondering about it because um, it's not my own personal

36:37

Offensiveness that I that I care about i'm not I don't feel the need to defend myself, but I have had had I have had had

36:43

Is that a phrase I've I've had multiple friends multiple viewers of the show reach out and say

36:49

Is this true and are you aware that this is out there and did you say this and and uh, and because of the fact that almost 100

36:58

Of the people who have commented about this have actually misquoted me or at the very at the very least um gotten it wrong in terms of what

37:07

I meant Very good. I've given I feel like I probably should Give you a little bit of clarity because I do think words matter and I do think topics like this are important so, um,

37:18

I have Let's just start with the the central question. Is it true that I said? Um, which is what you've seen in some headlines or seen in some some, uh, some titles of videos

37:28

Dallas Jenkins says quote And then it'll say mormons or lds whatever term that they want to use

37:35

Mormons and evangelicals love the same jesus or lds are christians

37:42

Is it true that I said that and the answer is no I did not now um

37:48

Did it appear like I said that could it be easily interpreted as me saying that I think that's true I think we can agree that You know words matter nuance matters

37:58

And um, I probably could have given more context and clarity um that Then that i'm giving now um, you know i've done hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of interviews and written thousands of things about my faith and about the faith of others and I try very hard to be nuanced.

38:16

I try very hard to make to be cautious and wise and clarifying about every word that I use

38:22

But I don't always succeed and I think this is I think it's fair to say that this is one where Um, I don't take back what

38:29

I said, but I could have given it a little bit more clarity I think it's also true

38:34

That it would be a problem If I actually said those words definitively if I actually made the statement

38:42

Um evangelicals and lds Or lds are christians that would be a problem and here's why not because there aren't

38:52

And not because there aren't lds and evangelicals who love the same jesus but because it would be wrong of me to ever

38:59

Say that any one group believes any one thing altogether That is just a level of arrogance that I don't have and it's something that I actually believe has been a problem over the years with many people is whatever

39:12

Title or label that someone has had assigned to them or that they've assigned themselves or whatever group they're part of that we oftentimes will

39:21

Will label the entire group as having a particular belief or a particular personality It would be just as dumb for me to say that all lds are christians

39:29

As it would be to say that all evangelicals are christians or that all catholics are christians or any other faith tradition

39:34

And it would also be dumb of me to say that none are That's also a level of arrogance that I don't possess

39:42

I happen to be speaking about when i've talked about my brothers and sisters in christ and i've talked about those

39:47

Lds folks that I know who love the same jesus. I do i'm referring to some of the friends that I have

39:53

Who identify as lds who i've gotten to know very deeply over the last few years in particular and have had

40:01

Hundreds of hours of conversations with and I stand by the statement that those friends of mine that i'm referring to Absolutely love the same jesus that I do

40:13

I almost lost my mind. Um, hang on just a second. Where am I at? Okay, here we go. Let's get rid of him

40:19

I have a question one question Are mormons christians go no

40:26

Next question That's an easy one so so we have well

40:32

I heard that's an easy one come on give it to me, of course, okay, so we have three um Pastor jim osmond birthday boy

40:42

Happy birthday Well, I just now got into the chat. I saw the group chat going on and I thought sounds like an interesting subject.

40:48

So i'll Dial in and just listen for a bit Okay, our our our mormons christians based on their doctrine

40:57

No, okay. So how much nuance did we have to throw in there? None So you see what what anthony just said is we need biblical clarity and truth dallas jenkins

41:09

Why is he why is he saying this new one? Why why is it? Why is he throwing all that out there?

41:15

Here's here's what my my belief is. Okay, and and I don't I don't want him to accuse me of putting words in his mouth, right or or or try to To uh to read his heart as he said in multiple videos, um that I I painstakingly watched today

41:30

But you know when when a christian walks through the museum of the bible in washington dc You're like that was really cool, right?

41:38

I mean why because we're getting to see The history of the bible right and all kinds of old manuscripts and I mean it's absolutely wonderful the problem is is that by the time you get through the entire museum and you turn around you're like Hold on a second

41:53

A jehovah's witness could have walked through this museum and felt the exact same way. I did A mormon could have walked this museum and felt the exact same way

42:01

I did A muslim could have walked through this museum and felt exactly the way I did the museum as good as it is

42:09

I I think is absolutely awful that anybody could walk out of the museum and have that type of thought process

42:16

Why is it that a christian family with a what's supposed to be a christian museum?

42:23

Doesn't have a real gospel presented anywhere a gospel that is supposed to offend the right people

42:29

And and is supposed to console the right people I don't I don't I don't understand that at all

42:35

And so my my belief with dallas jenkins is he has done his best to play this middle ground

42:41

For for the benefit of his own pockets. And again, I can't I can't accuse it's just that it's just that He has made a show that seems to please

42:53

All kinds of groups that will look at the four gospels and be okay with I mean when you look at some of the youtube comments underneath dallas jenkins's videos

43:02

There were buddhists who were writing in saying they now love jesus

43:07

As a result of the movie even though they are still buddhist I saw that comment multiple times and I didn't have to scroll very far

43:15

So this is this is really really dangerous to me i'm going to say one last thing proverbs 2017

43:22

Bread gained by deceit is sweet to a man. But afterward his mouth will be full of gravel I believe that this is the ultimate in deceit

43:31

Andrew, uh one definitive question Are mormons christians?

43:38

Uh, no, actually I just had two people holding up What do they believe actually we're down here in dc and I saw two mormon missionaries that means two young girls who are 19 18 19 years old talking with this couple and I politely walked by and informed the couple that Mormonism is a man -made religion

43:59

Uh that teaches that we could be god and I turned to the gentleman said where's the first time we ever heard? That we can become like god genesis chapter three

44:08

I said this is a demonic religion and the one girl goes. Thank you very much Goodbye, because they were they were exchanging phone, uh contact information

44:16

So I was like, let me at least warn you and I feel that I did I did my due diligence No Uh, it's a religion of a con man

44:24

A known con man a known con man. That's right. Yeah It's just one just one thing about the uh, the chosen.

44:32

Um, And melissa bondservant for jesus. She said this exactly right if you don't know

44:38

There are a couple of nuanced things that they did do and i'll talk about nuance that to add to their story They made matthew a man with asperger's

44:47

Now question. Did you see anywhere in the scripture where matthew? has a a defective issue

44:55

A mental handicap or physical handicap. I know a matthew with asperger's his last name is slick

45:03

But that's about as close as I think we can come Yeah Yeah, so this I Know i'm not trying to go all ifb here and in legalistic, but i'll be honest.

45:15

Well, gosh, okay It's not enough preach I want to start using king james english here pretty soon.

45:24

It's not enough To just believe in jesus. Amen as as we were hinting at that Mormons believe in jesus.

45:35

Jehovah's witnesses believe in jesus Muslims believe in jesus, but they don't believe in the right jesus they don't believe in the jesus of the bible and and i'm going to take it a step further because i'm whether it's like son of god movie that was what six seven years ago that was

45:51

That was a real big thing for a while and people are all gaga over that now. It's the chosen and I have a

45:59

I have a fundamental problem with the whole genre of Jesus movies

46:06

Because it puts an image in your mind of deity That is not accurate and even with the best of intentions trying to do the best job to portray jesus in the best way it falls woefully short and it puts a

46:24

I think it it comes. I think it's a violation of the second commandment I mean, I know there'd probably be some debate about that, but it puts

46:31

Uh, if someone were to come to me and i'm obviously not an actor But if someone were to come to me if dallas jenkins had come to me and said

46:38

Hey, uh, justin i'm making this movie on jesus and I want you to portray jesus My first response to him would be are you kidding me?

46:46

You you want me a fallen sinful creature to portray deity well, let me pray about it.

46:54

No No No, not in a million years the thought of even doing that would absolutely terrify me

47:04

Um, so I have a problem with the whole genre. Could you be a little bit more definitive on that? I mean, yeah, well

47:10

In the in the interest of full disclosure justin. I don't think that a crippled jesus would have sold well in the film anyway

47:16

I think that they probably would have had some shots in there of Of you walking across the judean countryside with your disciples

47:22

On your crutches and people might have looked at that and thought I don't know I'm, not sure that that's really biblically accurate.

47:29

Oh, he'd have been Are you saying he healed others himself? He cannot heal. Yeah are you saying like a faith healer shouldn't

47:39

Be you know having cancer or wearing glasses I think you and your motorized scooter could have made for some good cinema

47:45

Oh That'd be well that Jesus on a motorized scooter would be just about as accurate as the jesus of the chosen.

47:54

I'll You know and look we understand that whenever you know, if you go to sight and sound or any of those things

48:01

Yeah, they're gonna take some license in in And and they say that right?

48:08

So fine, we get that The the issue that and and I haven't watched the chosen.

48:14

So Uh, if people want to say that i'm arguing from ignorance, okay um but when we end up trying to You know make it where the the the

48:31

People that we know in the bible We want to make them Seem more like us

48:37

Why do you want? You know It's it's because they don't like the the jesus that does exist and and you know what justin was saying earlier

48:47

You know for those of you who watch the movie fireproof. Um There's a character in there.

48:53

Uh Javier, I think is the name and and this is the the actual person that plays javier uh has been impacted by justin peter's ministry, so we got to meet him and and Uh, he he came out of some of the charismatic stuff from justin peter's

49:09

So which is kind of neat? but there's a scene in there where this guy javier is

49:16

He's walking around because he wants he's praying He needs a job and waiting for a job and here he's he's just walking around a neighborhood and some guy calls out to him javier

49:27

Because he's expecting a javier to show up to his house to do work on the house and so this this guy hires javier and they're working together and Like a couple days later week later

49:38

The the guy goes to lunch with his other friends and the friend who said he'd send javier over goes.

49:44

Hey Sorry about javier. He couldn't he's in the hospital and never showed up. He's like, what do you mean javier's at my house right now?

49:51

Yeah, and they realized it's a different javier the problem with that with the jesus of mormonism and catholicism and all these others is

50:00

It's a different jesus. Well, I mean catholicism at least is closer, but mormonism travel witnesses But here's the thing that really bothers me with it to and justin you were kind of saying this earlier is

50:11

But there is a book Came out called how wide the divide This was a book that was basically to mormonism what's uh, evangelicals and christians together was to roman catholicism and what ect was was a bunch of conservatives saying

50:28

Yeah, catholics are like us And what was going on was the catholics who said we're condemned to hell we're suddenly saying

50:36

You know, we're we're christians just like you You had the mormons that did the same exact thing and how wide the divide was where you had a mormon and a christian

50:45

An evangelical christian and the the mormon is saying exactly what they believe Um, oh not fireproof courageous.

50:53

Sorry. Thank you. John um, so so what ends up happening is you end up having that here's here's

51:00

An evangelical that's just placating to the to the mormon saying yeah, we're very similar We're very similar not defining the terms

51:07

But just trying to say we can get along And then you ended up seeing a campaign that the mormons did called we are christian, too

51:15

And they want they who say we've lost the gospel now want to be just like us And say they're like us and the joe witnesses are doing it right now

51:23

They've redone their website and they're claiming they're christians like us. We we Supposedly lost the gospel didn't have the right gospel

51:30

Suddenly, they all want to be like us and unfortunately too many christians are going come on in. Yes It's just so nice that we can all be together

51:38

Yeah, it's shameful and and what you have to think about too is is We're talking about starting points.

51:45

Okay, we have to define starting points because What I said earlier is in the chosen you're not going to sit there and see

51:54

Them say oh the jesus that we believe in the jesus of the the the bible

52:00

Are diametric diametrically opposed to each other. You're not going to see that You're going to see them say oh we believe in the same jesus and andrew you just finished saying it they are

52:10

Christians quote unquote just like the baptist and just like everybody else and when when jenkins comes along and he says

52:17

In his statement when he comes along and says in his statement. No, I don't believe that all

52:23

Uh mormons are christians just like I don't believe that all Baptists are christians are all catholics are christians all evangelicals are christians

52:31

The reason he said that is is he's saying the lds mormon church is a

52:38

Division and part a denomination of the greater christian church they are christians

52:45

And inside that just like we have false converts. There's false converts in their churches as well

52:53

So he can he can say Um, I don't I don't believe that they're all christians, but i'm not so arrogant as to say that none of them are well

53:02

It was a lot like ed litton statement, wasn't it on homosexuality that you know how

53:07

I know not all homosexuals Are going to hell because not all heterosexuals are going to heaven

53:13

I mean, it's it was a statement just like that the the biggest issue

53:18

I have is we're kind of talking through this is You know, he brought up in several of his videos this idea of there's commonalities between the faiths

53:27

Exactly, and and he talks about different faith traditions So he's he's looking at them like all on the same level to a degree, right?

53:36

And and he's looking at the commonalities in the gospels that he's supposed to be portraying in the chosen and he's ignoring

53:42

Yeah, so chris huff says jd greer statement Yes, jd greer made it and then ed litton copied it and ed litton gave it in a sermon as well

53:49

In in one of his plagiarized, uh talks and both of them guys Said it was probably said by several hundred other pastors across the country as well.

53:59

What did you say justin? The original statement came from tim keller they they

54:05

Lifted it off of tim keller, which is Not a good source to be getting your theology

54:11

Well so so I just pulled this this is dallas jenkins's

54:17

Statement he said I think it's also true that it would be a problem if I actually said

54:24

Those words definitively He added to that word definitively, okay

54:30

Jenkins added That would be a problem and here's why not Think about what he's saying

54:36

Not because there aren't lds folks who aren't christians And not because there aren't lds and evangelicals who love the same jesus

54:45

Because it would be wrong of me to ever say that any one group believes any one thing altogether

54:54

So so you see what he's saying? I mean guys he's legitimately saying Straight out of the box there.

55:01

He's saying it's not a problem that there are false converts It'd be a problem for me to say that there's not false converts

55:09

That's the argument he's making I mean, it's it's it's in plain Language, just like we have false converts.

55:16

They have false converts as well, and we're christians just like you yeah, but it's a logical fallacy because within Okay, broad term and overused but evangelical assuming assuming we mean by evangelical

55:33

People who believe salvation by grace alone through faith alone in christ alone assuming that okay.

55:38

Yeah Evangelicals have the right gospel They have the right jesus

55:45

Yes, there's obviously there's many converts and I mean many false converts within evangelicalism

55:51

But they do have the right gospel Mormonism doesn't have the right gospel.

55:58

They've they've got the wrong jesus and the wrong gospel. So the truth salvation is

56:06

The gospel truly is presented within the evangelical world It is definitively not presented within mormonism at all on any level and so Any any person who would be an lds?

56:24

Who is actually a christian? would have to be someone who is got converted not because of the lds church, but but in spite of the lds church, you know, it would only be because They actually heard the real gospel somewhere else

56:39

And they they would at best at best be a brand new baby, very immature christian

56:46

But here's the thing if that if an lds person truly does get saved truly does

56:53

Become converted and regenerate Adopted into the family of god. They're not going to stay lds

57:00

They're gonna leave they're going to leave You know Look, it's you know, matt sometimes says this about mormon catholicism, but it's true as far with mormons as well

57:11

Are there some that are within the mormon church that may legitimately get saved? Yes But it is not because of mormon doctrine, but apart from it

57:22

Yeah That you cannot you cannot believe in Good mormon doctrine and go to heaven.

57:31

It's impossible Right Well, and that's why the clarity needs to be there

57:37

Right is the question that really needs to be asked of of him is Is ask him what the what the actual gospel is taught in the bible?

57:47

It's for him to answer that question and then what is the gospel quote unquote That is being taught by the mormon church

57:54

The one that's being taught by the roman catholic church and the one that's being taught by phil in the blank, right?

57:59

I mean that's really the question that has to be asked and that and that he needs to answer rather than all these

58:04

Fuzzy words that and and in a nonsensical 15 or 16 minute video that that really said nothing

58:12

Well, and and you think about on foundational starting points? Okay, so so ask the question

58:20

Who is god? Okay We have a fundamentally different teaching

58:27

Between biblical christianity the scriptures judaism Okay, we have a fundamentally different teaching between that and the gods plural of the lds mormon church, they

58:43

Are absolutely completely different you have you first thing you have is, you know, you think uh, psalm psalm 90 verse 2

58:51

I I posted up here a little bit ago. So psalm 90 verse 2 we we would actually say

58:56

That according to scripture, we believe that god has revealed before the mountains were born you

59:04

Or or you gave birth to the earth and to the world from everlasting to everlasting. You are god

59:10

We we believe that the bible teaches that god is eternally god. He never became

59:16

God, he he never was a man Who became god well? The lds teaching the mormon teaching is that the god that they're talking about elohim was born from other gods

59:33

Who had celestial sex is what they talk about They had celestial sex.

59:38

He was born and then he lived according to the the the the laws

59:45

And the covenants and andrew he wrote this book a really cool book called What do they believe and he writes down in the very first part of it the articles of faith on chapter 4

59:57

The articles of faith say we believe in god the eternal father and his son Jesus christ

01:00:03

And the holy ghost and you say well, wait a minute. They believe in the same god. No, they don't No, they don't we believe that um

01:00:14

I'm getting feedback. I don't know where it is. Yeah, i'm hearing your feedback, too I don't think it's me.

01:00:20

Anyway, uh, we believe uh that man will be punished on their own sin What's that I don't know what it is.

01:00:32

I just like to quote and andrew from your Can can you hear me fine?

01:00:40

Yeah, we can hear you. Yeah, I hear you Go in. Okay I just want to quote from andrew's book

01:00:47

About it's on page 145 of what what do they believe? About jesus christ and his deity

01:00:54

They do not believe in the dual nature of jesus being both fully god and fully man.

01:00:59

Jesus was god became man Died and became god again So that that's not the same jesus as what the bible teaches as Who being equal

01:01:15

To god because he is god and just you know philippians Two say being in the being in the form of god did not see it see it a thing to be grasped, but he

01:01:30

Emptied himself. He didn't loop cease to be god, but he he set aside his splendor and glory And became like a slave

01:01:38

By becoming a man And he never ceased to be god.

01:01:43

He was fully god and he was fully man And that his death on the cross is is

01:01:51

He's he was still fully god and fully man on the cross We don't teach like the mormons do that jesus ever ceased to be god and then had become god again

01:02:03

Or like beth moore teaches that he ceased to be the son of god on the cross Yeah Yeah, well,

01:02:11

I think that's right. We don't see the teaching that we can become god except in genesis chapter 3

01:02:18

Yeah, who was it speaking Satan oh satan

01:02:24

You know, and that's exactly what you're pointing out there, you know I think one thing that that is missed so many times is

01:02:32

They they they use the biblical new nuanced terms And by by nuance,

01:02:38

I mean that they're changing the terms to mean what they want it to mean But you know you think uh, andrew you pointed out in point number eight on their

01:02:46

On their on what they believe we believe the bible to be the word of god In point that's that that's the end of it, right?

01:02:55

Is that what it said? No We believe the bible to be the word of god as long as it's it's translated correctly

01:03:02

But we also believe that the book of mormon to be the word of god. So Yeah, there's a problem there

01:03:10

What they've done is they've elevated the book of mormon and several others over the bible

01:03:17

Because the bible has to be translated correctly So so here's the thing to you'll see with many cults

01:03:24

And and this is something to look for Anytime you have the bible plus And that that plus is what is used to interpret the bible

01:03:34

Then the bible is not sufficient. In fact, it's lower than whatever the plus is

01:03:40

If you need the roman catholic church's magisterium to interpret the bible Then they're above the bible because the bible is useless until you have that If it's jehovah witness's watchtower, if it's the mormon church's president

01:03:54

Prophet, uh, or the book of mormon And and by the way, most most mormons don't read

01:04:00

The book the bible, okay And if you were to do a comparison if people have done this the book of mormon is actually closer to christianity than it is mormonism

01:04:10

Because what we know of is mormonism the church of jesus christ of latter -day saints Really was got its structure not under joseph smith who founded it

01:04:20

But after he was after he was killed it was really You know His predecessor bringham young who really created the doctrines that we know of with mormonism.

01:04:31

So joseph smith's stuff uh early on book of mormon was very Much in line with the bible um the irony of where we get this idea of some of the stuff of being gods and And even more so with you know if you guys know mormonism a lot of it deals with that what do we have to look forward to in heaven is

01:04:50

Celestial marriage we get to be married forever Have be gods of our own planet and produce children.

01:04:56

Where do they get this from? They get it from what they call the book of abraham The book of hebron is really interesting to study what the book abraham is

01:05:04

Joseph smith had some guy traveling through town with these with these plates that had uh, egyptian on it and reformed reformed egyptian and You know, he claimed he translated this and it was actually a book of abraham

01:05:20

That had the gospel that was lost and the gospel is that we would be married forever and then one day

01:05:29

There was a rosetta stone they discovered the same hieroglyphics with the language that we knew today and they could now translate the book of abraham and discovered

01:05:41

It's a funeral dirge. It doesn't speak anything about abraham nothing and and What the internet's been damaging to the mormon church?

01:05:51

And so what they ended up doing was putting out these uh what they call uh journals of discourse and they don't make it really public

01:05:58

But they're there for people that do the digging where they try to explain these things so what they explain with the book of abraham is the book of abraham is a

01:06:08

Inspired translation. In other words, joseph smith said he translated it word for word And that this is what it is in the egyptian

01:06:16

And yet now that we realize it's nothing like what it is in the egyptian uh, the answer now is that this is a divine translation now what a divine translation means is

01:06:28

God got it completely wrong But believe it anyway, right? Uh, one thing that several people have posted up here, let's just get to a couple of statements

01:06:39

Uh in the king, uh fall at discourses they teach against the trinity. Um, Uh, I actually first heard about this from james white talking about that uh, he actually he's right what he does is he he says that that uh, when joseph smith was 16

01:06:56

I believe it was Give me a second. I'm, sorry When I believe he was 16

01:07:02

Uh, he'd been praying and asking what church should he join? And um as he was as he'd been praying

01:07:09

God the father and god the son jesus himself They both came down and talked to him physically in physical form

01:07:17

They were standing in front of him and talked to him and as andrew pointed out They both told him do not join any of the any of the the apostate churches

01:07:26

Because they are all apostate. None of them are true christian. They've all went apostate and um, and that that he needs to he needs to wait and they're going to Reveal to him the new and true faith that they're going to give to him so that's where that's where You know you you have this separation of the trinity

01:07:49

But you have also god this god the father coming in uh, quote -unquote elohim who came in in physical form

01:07:56

Uh came in and and spoke to to him in his physical form and showed himself Reveal himself correction real quick just real quick a correction that uh

01:08:06

I said journal discourses. It's it's the gospel topic essays and where uh

01:08:12

They've tried to correct and they've correct tried to correct how the whole issue of the blacks were

01:08:17

Were you know, they originally said blacks were cursed and that's why they couldn't be the priesthood That's corrected in the in these gospel topic essays

01:08:25

So they're very interesting because what those what those topic essays are doing is revealing that those of us who've been

01:08:30

Saying these things about the mormon church for years. Uh, we're right Anthony Oh Anthony was gonna say something i was gonna put so humble clay said joseph smith sounds similar to muhammad

01:08:44

Actually lutheran satire did a video on this called a latter -day re -gift

01:08:49

It is the most is the funniest six and a half minutes you will ever watch on the internet Well, if you want if you want something on that humble clay, uh, go to mrm .org.

01:08:58

It's mormon mormonism research ministry Uh mrm .org and eric johnson actually did that because I was talking to him about he's like, oh

01:09:07

I got a book on this There's a lot of similarities between joseph smith and mormon and and muhammad in how they came about They both went to a dark place.

01:09:16

They both got this revelation. They both had an angel that they they would be in trust Uh, there's a lot of similarities and they were both they were both initially afraid of it, too

01:09:26

Correct they both initially thought this entity this Thing that appeared to them was malevolent was was evil.

01:09:34

They were both initially scared of it. So, um, You know, there's no way to prove this but it's just kind of my working theological hypothesis that That it was probably the same demon that appeared to both joseph smith and muhammad

01:09:49

Now now the interesting thing for islam is what convinced muhammad a woman?

01:09:56

The prophet muhammad listened to a woman So who do we trust the prophet?

01:10:04

Or the woman in islam you should trust the prophet therefore that Was a demon in what he claimed just saying

01:10:12

Yeah, so, uh andrew goes over a lot of this stuff and what he said over and over again that he was demon possessed

01:10:21

Yeah Yeah Yeah, exactly link up there has a good comment.

01:10:26

She said, uh, As man is god once was as god is man may become that she's right about that I've i've read that many different times many places.

01:10:36

Yeah, but yeah, she's absolutely right about that Then well, that is a couplet that's known within mormonism uh that is uh

01:10:45

Basically, the idea is that god was once a man Uh, and we can become like god is

01:10:51

Yeah, um anthony, where can they get that book that you were holding up? Yeah, I was gonna say that uh striving for eternity .com

01:10:59

so go there get this book And in fact dallas jenkins if you're watching or you have somebody watching this show for you

01:11:07

Um, I am happy to send you free copies my own expense of andrew's book

01:11:13

What do they believe so you can learn what mormons actually believe official doctrines what the roman catholics actually believe official doctrines

01:11:20

What judaism actually believes official doctrines and then as a as another free gift to you

01:11:25

I will give you his other book which I don't have within arm's reach called. What do we believe? And this is what you are supposed to believe

01:11:31

Dallas jenkins if you are truly an evangelical, hey throw one more in there, uh for folks who are listening that want to evangelize

01:11:40

Mormons we have a book at striving .org called sharing the good news with mormons and You can get it at our store for 35 off with the coupon code lds

01:11:51

So that gives you 24 different ideas different ways to share the gospel with mormons You'll not only learn a lot about evangelism, but also about mormonism

01:11:59

So so the reason that we're talking about this is as chris huff. He posted this He says this also highlights that true believers do not need to partner with dallas

01:12:09

Or anyone who believes a false gospel. So when somebody asks you well, what's wrong with the chosen?

01:12:15

Well, we don't get our doctrine from the chosen. We don't get our teaching from the chosen

01:12:21

We don't get our understanding of scripture from the chosen stick to the bible See see here's the issue

01:12:28

Um dallas jenkins says that you know, we believe that we believe the bible And and we we listen to the bible we adhere to the bible but only after The holy spirit only after it's been guided through the holy spirit.

01:12:42

In other words the the idea, uh, the quote that he had been talking about um

01:12:47

What what he's talking about is the idea? That we have to have this this feeling this if you will a burning in a bosom type feeling before we can

01:12:58

Uh go to the scripture so it's not the scripture as the foundational authority it's our feelings about how we deal with it

01:13:06

Uh, and that that actually comes from mormonism. That's a mormon doctrine Which tells us that there's a burning in the bosom that can tell us when the spirit is working and telling us what's true

01:13:20

Joseph smith actually did teach that he said Uh in in in mormonism, it teaches that if you want to know that the book of mormon is true

01:13:28

What do you do? You go you you pray about it. And if god will give you the burning in the bosom the burning emotion the burning in the bosom

01:13:37

Then you will know and that's the holy spirit affirming for you that the the the book of mormon is true

01:13:43

Peps at ac works really good to take care of that burning So, you know,

01:13:51

I I think we should address this one statement from jenkins right is he said that um

01:13:57

We we watched this in the video clip already said I think it's also true that it'd be a problem if I actually said those words definitively

01:14:03

That would be a problem and here's why not because there aren't lds folks who aren't christians and not because there aren't lds

01:14:09

And evangelicals who love the same jesus Would it be wrong for me to ever say that any one group believes any one thing altogether now?

01:14:17

First and foremost is what we've been starting to do and what you can do if you just get andrew's book

01:14:23

Is you can read all about what the lds actually believes as their official doctrinal positions

01:14:30

So when somebody says they're lds by default, they believe what the lds church teaches

01:14:36

If somebody says a roman catholic they by default Believe what the roman catholic church teaches

01:14:41

I mean this is this is common sense and this is where this that has to be the starting point When somebody identifies with a group

01:14:49

So dallas so dallas jenkins is acting like somebody can identify with a group But I actually believe what the group believes and maybe actually be something different.

01:14:56

That's that's absurdity. That's insane Yeah now having said all that Lds and evangelicals love the same jesus.

01:15:04

So let's be really clear um So andrew What is or who is the jesus that the mormons believe in?

01:15:14

well The jesus that the mormons believe in Was a physical product of heavenly father and heavenly mother so created through Celestial sex, right?

01:15:26

Okay. He is the brother of lucifer Okay, brother lucifer, uh that he is

01:15:35

Going to become god or now is god and he'll have his own planet Um now one of the interesting things is jesus was sinless.

01:15:44

However, heavenly father was not They believe heavenly father sinned on a previous planet So you go figure that one.

01:15:52

Why did why would jesus be perfect then if no other human in history in other planets has been?

01:16:00

g this jesus that You know will have if he's going to be a good mormon

01:16:07

Uh have to be celestial a celestial marriage to somebody to produce children on his planet because that's

01:16:14

The way that you build the planets uh your own planet, so This is very different than the god of the bible or the jesus of the bible who is who is eternal no beginning no end

01:16:30

Who is god Not just a man. He is truly man and truly god

01:16:37

And creator of all things. Yeah, and and so here's the dilemma you end up having he was a a he was

01:16:45

He would have been from a planet called kolak Yeah, which is kind of interesting now

01:16:50

Think about this colossians one says that jesus christ created all things everything that was created anything that was created

01:16:57

Visible invisible heaven earth if it's been created jesus created it

01:17:03

So the question to ask the mormon i'm trying to understand this How did jesus christ create the planet kolob before he was born?

01:17:13

How did he create his parents before he was born and by the way, how did he create The planet kolob before his parents were born and create his grandparents

01:17:22

You see in an attempt to answer the question. Where did god come from? They created a bigger problem

01:17:29

Yeah, well and see and this is the point right is how can lds and evangelicals love the same jesus when it is not the same jesus

01:17:39

And and that this is the the whole point that dallas jenkins really needs to understand So, thank you for that andrew no and one thing you have to think about hebrews one, uh hebrews one and says in verse five

01:17:54

For unto which of the angels did he ever say you are my son did I ever begotten you and again?

01:18:00

I will be a father to him and he shall be uh unto me a son and when again What bringing the bringing the firstborn into the world did he say let all the angels of god worship him you see

01:18:13

What what the uh lds and uh mormons teach Is that all of the angels?

01:18:21

Are are spirit brothers And what the bible teaches is that jesus christ

01:18:29

Is not an angel and he's not he's eternally god But he's not an angel and he didn't get created as a man and as you were pointing out

01:18:39

And I don't want anybody to miss this Elohim came down in time

01:18:45

Came down in time at the plan Came down in time and he had physical sexual relationships with mary

01:18:57

Who was married? to joseph And conceived jesus who came into the world

01:19:06

And who you know lived and and died and jesus adhered to not only the the

01:19:13

Old testament or the the the gospel the the the scriptures, but he also adhered to the mormon scriptures as well

01:19:21

So don't forget that, you know, don't don't miss that stuff so We're talking about a completely different Jesus a completely different god and and we have a couple more resources that I had pulled up Um, have you guys ever heard of living waters?

01:19:38

I don't know if you guys maybe yeah, that's that's the studio or sight and sound studios

01:19:44

No It's something like that. It's it's like well, they've got excellent material.

01:19:49

Everybody knows that we we have extra material well, they have a very uh 28 minute, uh

01:19:55

Uh in season three, they did a 28 minute discussion on the secrets of mormonism and they did not pull any punches

01:20:01

They didn't waste like a minute And what I want to do is go through about maybe five minutes real quick We could break it down and kind of because I want to reiterate.

01:20:10

This is not just us saying Okay, this is not just us saying. Oh, we believe this and this is our our stuff

01:20:17

I want you to hear what what it's what it's the the doctrine is and what's being taught It's not just us saying they're doing that This is common knowledge

01:20:27

You ever stolen anything I sped it up a little bit one point two five

01:20:37

A teenage boy named joseph smith jr said he had a vision while he was praying in the woods According to the official account.

01:20:43

He said he was visited in the 1820s by god the father and jesus christ Who told him that christianity had become corrupt that all the churches were wrong?

01:20:52

Their creeds were an abomination and he shouldn't join any of them Three years later joseph was visited by an angel named moroni

01:20:58

He told him where to find some golden very golden plates that would explain the true gospel And tell him about the history of the american indians.

01:21:05

These plates were supposedly written in reformed egyptian So he had to translate them into english and the result eventually became known as the book of mormon another testament of jesus christ

01:21:15

With that as a backdrop now, let's look at what mormons believe and where they get their teaching from His followers are known as mormons and they have taught some very interesting things

01:21:31

Such as that if it weren't for joseph smith, nobody would be saved If it had not been for joseph smith and the restoration there would be no salvation

01:21:41

All right, let's pause just for a second everybody jump in How do we get this in here? Can we get it in there this way there we are

01:21:50

All right So if everybody's in there you you just saw that Let me see if I can well a couple things that are interesting with that real quick is one is the fact that The you know, they mentioned the the hieroglyphics of um

01:22:07

You know of the the you know book of mormon, yeah the reformed egyptian There's no copies of the book of mormon in egyptian

01:22:18

And that it's convenient that way we had the book of abraham But there's no copy so now that we can do the rosetta stone it'd be really interesting to see what the book of mormon translated

01:22:31

Yeah But but think about what he's saying here If it had not been for joseph smith and the restoration there would no be no salvation.

01:22:40

Yeah He's basically the fourth member of the trinity Well, just it's it's mind -blowing to to think that Dallas jenkins or others would say.

01:22:52

Oh, well, they're christians, too Are there some that are christians? And and he did he can say he didn't all he wants to but even in his definitive statement

01:22:59

There was a definitive statement that we all heard that there are lds Christians if you believe the doctrine of the latter -day saints um

01:23:12

Church, you are not a christian Okay, there is no salvation without joseph smith

01:23:18

By the way, we're going to learn later that they believe that joseph smith was the one that died for you and his death that was efficacious so listen

01:23:31

Hit the play button. I'm, sorry, there is no salvation outside the church of jesus christ of latter -day saints Mormons get their beliefs from five main sources the book of mormon

01:23:42

Which joseph smith said is the most correct of any book on earth Second the doctrine and covenants, which is a book mostly about theology third the pearl of great price fourth the king james bible

01:23:53

Is translated correctly which for the average mormon means the bible cannot be trusted entirely

01:24:00

But the ultimate authority in the mormon church comes from the living mormon apostles and prophets

01:24:05

Especially the president who is considered to be the voice of god on earth Kind of like a mormon pope and he can overturn any teaching of a previous president, which is not uncommon

01:24:15

Let's now look at what they teach about god joseph smith said In what's called the king follett funeral discourse one of his last teachings before, uh, he was killed macarthur's jail

01:24:25

He said we have imagined and supposed that god has been god from all eternity I will refute that idea and take away the veil so that you may see

01:24:32

When he refuted the idea that god had eternally been god. He forever separated his followers from biblical christianity

01:24:37

Until mormonism can repudiate that belief. There is no way that mormonism can even begin to consider biblical christianity

01:24:44

And so when we talk about the biblical jesus, we have to step back and say First we start with an eternal god who in psalm 90 verse 2 before the mountains brought forth

01:24:52

Wherever thou form the earth and the world even from everlasting to everlasting thou art god So when we talk about jesus being god and we point to the passages on the deity of christ

01:24:59

Which a mormon will accept they believe jesus is a god. He is the god of the old testament Just a different god than elephant.

01:25:04

They have two different gods at that point We need to emphasize we are talking about an eternal god who created all things who is not himself created

01:25:11

He is not himself one of the spirits of men Interestingly enough mormons believe that jesus is jehovah

01:25:17

And yet when you go in the old testament, jehovah creates the spirits of men. Zechariah 12 1 and yet in mormonism

01:25:22

He is one spirit In colossians chapter 1 paul describes jesus and says that he is a creator of all things

01:25:29

Visible invisible principalities powers means or authorities all things created by him and for him He is before all things and him all things exist consist hold together

01:25:36

And yet in mormonism jesus obviously was not the one who created the planet that his father lived on when he was a man

01:25:41

Or the god before him or the god before him and so they have to limit these descriptions of jesus to just having relevance to this planet

01:25:49

Elohim was once a man who lived on another planet And he went through a process of following the gospel there

01:25:56

He was deemed worthy and when he died, he was resurrected with his wives Organized this world notice.

01:26:03

I did not say created because the mormon god cannot create anything Ex nihilo out of nothing or into nothing. He can only organize pre -existing matter, but he organized this earth

01:26:12

And he begets spirit children with his wives. The first begotten of his spirit children was jehovah or jesus

01:26:19

We all are the spirit brothers of jesus each one of us Let's jump back in real quick.

01:26:27

All right Did you guys catch everything he was talking about? He's saying that The very foundational starting point is who is god

01:26:37

The the jehovah's witness i'm sorry the mormon the lds church they believe in a completely different god one that was

01:26:46

Created from other gods who were created from other gods who were created. This is an infinite regress

01:26:53

Right that there is no originator god. It's just infinitely back back and back and back and back and they keep on having

01:27:01

Celestial sex and see and it blows my mind andrew you were just talking about you know, the the muslim

01:27:10

Idea, uh, you know and how they you know Treat women basically, right?

01:27:15

When they should have been listening to the woman they're listening to the man and whatnot but this treats women as Sexual objects for the rest of eternity they create a world where their job is to be procreated upon And create spirit children who come in and inhabit other other planets and infinitely they

01:27:41

Keep doing this so so women are basically the objects of of of you know, what, uh,

01:27:48

I don't know what you want to call it just a sexual procreation Yeah, I mean that's what they have to look forward to but here's the interesting thing with it is that a woman cannot get

01:27:59

To the celestial kingdom to the ultimate level of heaven and see her own children without a husband

01:28:06

So I was going to ask you that Okay, this this is you guys know That's kind of personal when we go to the mormon pageants and things like that The women are the hardest ones like if we start engaging with a husband

01:28:20

You will see their wives pull them away because their wife cannot get to heaven without the husband So if a if a wife or a woman in general is a mormon

01:28:32

And she dies without a mormon husband. What happens to her? Well, she can go to the

01:28:39

As as a good obedient lds member she can go to the second heaven But not the third

01:28:45

Not that highest level. I mean, I I actually now wrap your head around this folks.

01:28:51

I used to work with a a mormon a member of mormon church When she became a mormon she realized she could not get to celestial heaven

01:29:00

Without a mormon husband who is temple worthy Not just being a mormon. He's gonna be temple worthy.

01:29:06

He's got he's got to be up on his tithing He's got to be meeting with the bishops and and doing everything they're saying and so what she did was

01:29:15

She was married to a man who was not mormon. She denied him the physical relations of marriage

01:29:22

Knowing that eventually this guy would commit adultery upon him committing adultery. She immediately left him

01:29:29

Had grounds according to the church for divorce Left him and go and went and married a mormon person a mormon man so that she could be

01:29:37

In the celestial kingdom now, let's think about that and say which which one is worse here folks Wow Purposely set up a way for her husband to cheat

01:29:47

So that she would be able to to claim she's a good mormon so so denying your husband physical relations

01:29:57

So that you can marry someone else And that's temple work that's that's that'll get her you know the highest level of heaven

01:30:07

I tell you what what I would like to see in in the audience for those that are watching we've got 45 on This one channel and I know we have a bunch more in other places

01:30:16

Um, i'd like to see uh, something like a poll or something like that Do you believe?

01:30:23

that jesus and satan are brothers Do you believe that they're brothers born from elohim?

01:30:33

You know Is is that something that you're comfortable saying? And in believing that do you believe that you're a christian to to say that?

01:30:41

And here's why i'm going to ask the question because Uh, let me put um Dr. White back in here

01:30:49

Uh, you guys don't need to drop out just it just takes just a minute I just I just want you to hear this and this is from ray comfort and kirk and a couple of guys.

01:30:55

So here listen You and I we were also begotten by elohim and one of his heavenly wives in a spiritual pre -existence

01:31:02

Another one of the offspring. So we're all spiritual brothers with jesus Is jesus the spirit brother of lucifer and you and you and me?

01:31:10

Yes was jesus lucifer's brother Yes And and as you are his brother lucifer's brother as you are jesus's brother as well

01:31:20

We're all children of our heavenly father In the pre -mortal spirit life jesus lucifer and all of us were the spirit children of god and his wives

01:31:34

Okay, did everybody hear that? Okay, did I I just want to clarify it

01:31:40

Did everybody hear what I heard? That not only all of us are spiritually brothers and sisters with jesus

01:31:49

Not speaking in the context of salvation But of being

01:31:55

And then satan is is is the spirit brother as well Yep, yep

01:32:04

That is a different jesus That is a different jesus I think there's a scripture verse, uh, john 1 12

01:32:13

Not all have the right to be a child of bed Only those who believe in jesus have the right to be called.

01:32:21

So we're not all children of god Only believers are children of god Something they get wrong.

01:32:28

Yeah catholics say the same thing. Yeah, we're all children of god, aren't we? Yeah Yeah, and and the thing is though this is a major part of mormon doctrine though, yeah

01:32:41

Because they they mean physical. I mean we are we're literally the offspring of heavenly father and heavenly mother

01:32:49

Trish trisha burton. She she posted this said Uh quote jesus became a god

01:32:55

And reached his great state of understanding through consent uh consistent effort

01:33:02

And continuous obedience to all the gospel truths and universal laws and that's what

01:33:07

I was going to also point out with in andrew's book Is that in andrew's book one of the tenants?

01:33:14

of belief Uh, do I have it pulled up here? No, I don't i'm sorry um, one of the tenants of belief is they believe in in the the um, the ten commandments and they believe in The the upholding of the of the covenants of mormonism.

01:33:31

Yeah. Yeah, so I I didn't quote that exactly right but Yeah, it's it's a cult mormonism is a cult.

01:33:38

Uh, you may as well be Muslim as be mormon and by the way the

01:33:45

The way that mormons and muslims view women There's a lot of similarity.

01:33:51

There's a lot of islamic I um shadows Within mormonism

01:33:59

In relation to that when I go in churches and teach that are what do they believe?

01:34:05

Seminar one of the things I point out justin is just that that you can tell that mormonism and islam are man -made religions

01:34:12

And when I say that I don't mean human made I mean specifically the gender male Yeah, because what they have to look forward to in heaven

01:34:21

Is everything that they would say is sinful here when you have all these women You're having sex with all the women in islam.

01:34:28

You have all you can alcohol everything they say is wrong here What do the women have to look forward to? Basically being a sex slave for eternity.

01:34:37

Yeah So, um I don't know how to pronounce it d otero

01:34:45

Uh, i've heard that mormons say that that even god is subject to the universal law and we just read that that's

01:34:53

And that is that has um That has shadows of word faith theology.

01:35:01

I mean, they're all related. They're all related mormonism word faith roman catholicism

01:35:06

Uh and islam they're all related. There's so why is that justin? Do they have the same source?

01:35:12

Are they from the same father? Huh? Yeah bingo Yep a father of lies

01:35:22

Specifically the father of lies. Hey, i'm gonna i'm gonna drop out. I just popped in for a little bit i'm down here in dc spend time with my bride, so um

01:35:33

We went to a seminar over at the museum of the bible tonight. Really really cool on smartheology Um, but some maybe maybe sometime we'll talk about on a later show before you drop out

01:35:43

Do you have the paper bag? You're going to wait till next week? No, I'll have to get a paper.

01:35:49

Oh, you're going to get a paper bag myself out of so so somebody on online said that Andrew could not argue his way

01:35:55

Out of a wet paper bag and I challenged him online. I said andrew I challenge you to argue your way out of wet paper bag.

01:36:04

I don't know exactly how you're going to do that, but I'll have to do that Andrew could argue his way out of houdini's outfits underwater

01:36:12

And and and I agree 100 percent. So I think it's hilarious that this guy said that Well, we'll see if he shows up.

01:36:18

I mean so far you guys didn't have a guy coming in tonight that claims that uh, there were no black lives matter protests, did you

01:36:27

No, no. Okay a guy who claimed that there that black lives matter was not an insurrection, but it was only january 6th

01:36:34

Oh, wow. Yeah. Okay. We'll see if he shows up next week. I I said this week.

01:36:39

I won't be here He said he doesn't want to come on because i'm such a meanie If i'm so mean

01:36:44

I say well, come on when i'm not on Yeah, he is so mean he is so mean Hey, we do need to take a moment though and all just just rest and relax, right?

01:36:55

I mean guys, we we need to take a moment and just take a break Sit back get our comfy little slippers on And take us to take us a break, you know

01:37:05

And and having said that Let's go If you don't have the means to take the break, let's go to my pillow and uh go to uh, mypillow .com

01:37:15

and you can type in the promo code sfe and they will give you a good discount towards Fluffy comfy pillows and fluffy comfy.

01:37:24

What are those things? moccasins They're slippers It looks like jet skis

01:37:35

They look like jet skis I I wear size 11.

01:37:41

So so jet skis, okay waterproof jet skis. They'll keep you warm And so those are real authentic my slippers

01:37:53

Oh, they are. Um, I typed in While they're having their hundred dollar off sale and I got a hundred dollars off was 50 bucks was shipping in every year

01:38:05

Wow, that's great Don't buy the full price whatever you do So justin,

01:38:12

I think we have a guest in the background. No come in and give some some thoughts Oh, that's right, it's mr.

01:38:20

Polygamy, right? Is that who it is? Who? Yeah, one wife one god.

01:38:25

I think it says one wife. Oh one god Well, I think he has the order reversed.

01:38:32

Oh, that's right It's the cluck commander nobody in the world like cluck commander, hey brother, how you doing?

01:38:41

Hey guys Uh, yeah, I got some thoughts about all this. Um, I actually um was going to recommend um a couple of other books um, first of all, um

01:38:52

You brought up, uh, james white. Uh, he's got a great book out there called. Um, the uh letters to a mormon elder

01:39:02

Yeah, and that's a really good one you can find a fine Um, if you dig around I think at monergism .com.

01:39:08

I think uh, you can find it for free. I think it's like a pdf um

01:39:14

And then also if you come across any book from sandra tanner I would and apparently, uh

01:39:23

Justin peters there is making funny faces My My granddaughter just uh, well, she didn't walk in she's six months old, but she was just carried in so well

01:39:36

It's funny on the screen. It shows you facing. Uh, uh anthony there. So I thought you were like making funny faces to him.

01:39:43

So Here's the story Uh, anyway, uh any book that you can you can get your hands on uh from sandra tanner, uh is a fantastic resources when it comes to mormonism um,

01:40:00

I have one that is It's got to be like 600 pages long. I mean, it's it's huge It goes through so much of their history and just uh, the the uh in -depth uh lies

01:40:13

That uh, mormonism is all about and uh, it's really fantastic stuff. I've been reading it, uh every now and then um

01:40:21

And then for entertainment reasons, I don't know if you've been if you're aware, but there's this one Uh tv series that's out right now.

01:40:29

Yeah bill mckeever is a fantastic mormonism Yeah mormonism research ministry

01:40:37

Yep, uh and on uh amazon prime, I believe it's I think it's on amazon prime

01:40:43

You can there's a a show out called under the banner of heaven And if you have not seen that yet, check it out.

01:40:51

It's really interesting Uh, it's it's actually about it takes place back in the 80s it deals deals with the one particular, uh,

01:40:59

An actual real life murder that happened Uh, it was all it's all based on true story.

01:41:05

I mean on you know, a true story a true crime and um

01:41:10

It is really in depth and it's really interesting. I mean sure there's probably a lot of Uh Liberties, you know taken with the uh, this the storyline but uh as far as what the mormons believe and the history but with um, with joseph smith and uh, brigham young and all that it is

01:41:33

Really in depth and uh, it talks mostly about focuses a lot about the blood atonement that uh that they have um

01:41:43

Belief in and so it's pretty great. I mean, it's it's a good story It's like I think like seven episodes and right now i've watched the first seven uh, six six episodes right now

01:41:56

So anyway, um check it out if you want to it's a good show, um and Other than that,

01:42:05

I think uh, yeah, I don't have anything else to say Well, that's good,

01:42:12

I appreciate you saying what you had to say All right. So if anybody else has anything they want to come in to say well, come on in You know, uh dallas jenkins if you want to come in to say something you're welcome to it.

01:42:24

Yeah, we'll light answer the questions Oh I'm gonna have to bow out.

01:42:31

All right, brother. All right, brother. Hey, thank you so much for coming Everybody say thank you to justin and and by the way

01:42:36

Um one way you can say thank you for to justin peters is go over to justinpeters .org

01:42:42

And and support our dear brother. Um Justin knows how I feel about him. I think he's a dear dear brother

01:42:48

He's a friend of mine and just somebody that we we all and not just me We all count justin as a dear friend and brother.

01:42:54

He's here As often as he can be he's uh, very busy and we want you guys to support him uh that I cannot tell you, you know what kovid did what the

01:43:05

The bands and everything else have done to hurt christian ministries that biblical ministries

01:43:10

And and you know, justin needs support and and you know, even strive for eternity apologetics live, you know

01:43:16

We need as much support as possible, you know Not just financial support guys One thing that helps more than anything is if you will take the material that we're producing and share it with everybody you can

01:43:28

Because that gets the message out that there's something That uh is not being shadow banned or it can't be shadow banned

01:43:35

It can't be blocked and and there's truth out there that you need to hear So, please support my dear brother.

01:43:41

Now. I just want to say that so thank you. Justin. I appreciate that brother well, i'll expect a check in the mail, so No, he doesn't pay me for nothing

01:43:52

Oh, yeah Justin we have been really blessed by your ministry

01:44:01

Keep well, I appreciate that Thank you. Praise praise the lord for it. And uh, y 'all have been a real encouragement to me as well.

01:44:09

So Thank you so much. All right, brother. God bless go have fun with that grandbaby I'll do it.

01:44:16

All right, man. He's a lot cuter than y 'all anyway. Yes. Yes I believe it Very much

01:44:23

Thank you brother, but hey, we've got one more one more thing I want to show everybody And as I said, this is from jeremiahfilms .com

01:44:32

And it's uh, it's called the bandwormon cartoon and when I first saw it

01:44:37

I was like, haha, that's silly This thing is so spot on There's I mean everybody gets their understanding

01:44:45

They start here and they work out and they say this this is absolutely Rock solid and I want you

01:44:52

I just I I want you to hear this Guys, if you want me to stop at any point in time And point anything out whatnot.

01:44:59

Just let me know Uh, we're not going to go through the entire thing, but I just I want to go through a little bit of it Have everybody hear it

01:45:05

Near the basic tenets of mormonism are in direct conflict with biblical christianity the following piece of animation based directly on actual mormon publications highlights these major doctrinal differences

01:45:20

Mormonism teaches that trillions of planets scattered throughout the cosmos are ruled by countless gods

01:45:25

Who once were human like us? They say that long ago on one of these planets to an unidentified god in one of his goddess wives

01:45:36

A spirit child named elohim was conceived This spirit child was later born to human parents who gave him a physical body

01:45:48

Through obedience to mormon teaching and death and resurrection He proved himself worthy and was elevated to godhood as his father before him

01:45:59

Mormons believe that elohim is their heavenly father and that he lives with his many goddess wives on a planet near a mysterious star called

01:46:08

Here the god of mormonism and his wives through endless celestial sex produced spirit children

01:46:20

To decide their destiny the head of the mormon gods called a great heavenly council meeting

01:46:27

Both of elohim's eldest sons were there lucifer and his brother jesus

01:46:33

A plan was presented to build planet earth Where the spirit children would be sent to take on mortal bodies and learn good from evil

01:46:45

Lucifer stood and made his bid for becoming savior of this new world Warning the glory for himself.

01:46:52

He planned to force everyone to become gods Opposing the idea the mormon jesus suggested giving man his freedom of choice as on other planets

01:47:04

The vote that followed approved the proposal of the mormon jesus who had become savior of the planet earth enraged

01:47:12

Lucifer cunningly convinced one third of the spirits destined for earth to fight with him and revolt

01:47:21

Thus lucifer became the devil and his followers the demons Sent to this world they would forever be denied bodies of flesh and bone

01:47:32

Those who remained neutral in the battle were cursed to be born with black skin

01:47:38

This is the mormon explanation for the negro race The spirits that fought most valiantly against lucifer would be born into mormon families on planet earth

01:47:49

These would be the lighter skinned people or white and delightsome as the book of mormon describes them

01:47:57

Early mormon prophets taught that elohim and one of his goddess wives came to earth as adam and eve to start the human race thousands of years later

01:48:07

Elohim in human form once again journeyed to earth from the starbase kolam

01:48:12

This time to have sex with the virgin mary in order to provide jesus with a physical body

01:48:22

After jesus christ grew to manhood three wives mary martha and mary magdalene

01:48:32

Through these wives the mormon jesus for whom joseph smith claimed direct descent Supposedly fathered a number of children before he was crucified

01:48:43

According to the book of mormon after his resurrection Jesus came to the americas to preach to the indians who the mormons believe are really israelites

01:48:54

Thus the jesus of mormonism established his church in the americas as he had in palestine

01:49:14

By the year 421 a .d

01:49:20

The dark -skinned indian israelites known as lamanites had destroyed all of the white nephites in a number of great battles

01:49:30

The nephites records were supposedly written on golden plates and buried by moroni the last living nephite in the hill camora 1400 years later a young treasure seeker named joseph smith who was known for his tall tales

01:49:49

Claimed to have uncovered these same gold plates near his home in upstate.

01:49:54

New york He is now honored by mormons as a prophet because he claimed to have had visions from the spirit world

01:50:03

In which he was commanded to organize the mormon church Because all christian creeds were an abomination

01:50:11

It was joseph smith who originated most of these peculiar doctrines which millions today believe to be true

01:50:21

By maintaining a rigid code of financial and moral requirements and through performing secret temple rituals

01:50:28

For themselves and the dead the latter -day saints hope to prove their worthiness and thus become gods

01:50:37

The mormons teach that everyone must stand at the final judgment before joseph smith the mormon jesus and elohim

01:50:46

Those mormons who were sealed in the eternal marriage ceremony Expect to become polygamous gods in the celestial kingdom

01:50:54

Rule over other planets and spawn new families throughout eternity The mormons thank god for joseph smith who claimed that he had done more for us than any other man including jesus christ

01:51:10

The mormons believe that he died as a martyr shed his blood for us So that we too may become gods

01:51:22

So while jesus shed his blood for your soul Joseph smith shed his blood so that you can become god

01:51:32

Guys Yeah, it wasn't because he escaped prison and he was he died in a shootout of course not

01:51:41

No But think you know, he had the seer stone. He had the seer stones, right? And and he was given to them given those by the angels uh

01:51:51

I think one thing that's that that was missed here is that you have moroni who was a roman soldier way back when in the first century puts the the golden plates in in the the ground and then the angel moroni tells joseph smith where it's where it's at so that he can fix the right religion because You know, it's been done wrong for so many generations you know

01:52:21

The the sheer, you know utter blasphemy that's what melissa says Uh, what do you guys think about about that stuff?

01:52:31

I think dallas jenkins needs to repent I'll disagree. Amen. I mean,

01:52:36

I I don't know what else to say about this. It's you know We we've clearly shown in this show

01:52:43

It's been clearly shown in many books and other publications that mormonism Is not christian.

01:52:49

It is a cult. It is one. It's dams you to hell. It is a false gospel it a fall of a wrong jesus,

01:52:57

I mean Everything about it is wrong. And so starting point everything everything's wrong.

01:53:02

Everything's wrong And so for dallas jenkins to make such nonsensical um

01:53:08

Just hazy fluffy Comments in a 16 minute video and other videos.

01:53:15

He's done again. I painfully watched an article Hundreds of interviews and articles, right?

01:53:21

I mean at no point did he think about Actually researching what does the

01:53:29

Lds church actually teach and believe what does the roman catholic church actually teach and believe

01:53:36

I'm, sorry. It's just it's foolish. What's at stake if you if you have the wrong jesus The wrong god the wrong way of salvation the wrong eternal perspective the wrong hope

01:53:47

Uh, what is at stake at that? I mean we have trisha burton I I want to read this and I want you guys to answer that question.

01:53:54

Yeah, I was taught this this cartoon is spot on fifth generation

01:54:01

To come out of this praise god praise the lord hallelujah fifth generation

01:54:07

She hears the truth and gets out fifth generation ex -mormon here. Praise the lord Amen Yeah, so okay.

01:54:15

So what's at stake? Okay. Well galatians 1 verses 6 through 10 I'm astonished you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of christ and are turning to a different gospel

01:54:26

Not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of christ But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you

01:54:36

Let him be accursed as we have said before So now I say again if anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received let him be accursed

01:54:46

The next verse by the way for now For am I now seeking the approval of man or of god?

01:54:54

Or am I trying to please man If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of christ

01:54:59

Dallas jenkins, you cannot pretend to be serving christ. You cannot pretend that your show is serving christ

01:55:06

Because you are trying to please man You're doing exactly what this passage talks about You are you are clearly distorting the gospel of christ when you are proclaiming

01:55:18

All the nonsense you are about lds and catholics and others Uh, it's just it's really clear.

01:55:24

Amen. Amen. I have to be on another show, but i'd have to I have I can attest to the show chosen it is

01:55:34

It is heretical It is heretical teaching of jesus. He teaches that jesus

01:55:42

When he sees that jesus said That not even he could do everything

01:55:48

Yeah, he teaches Yeah, that that That's first season whenever he's changed water into wine

01:55:56

He said not even I can do everything talking about andrew dancing and he also elevates women to where they

01:56:08

Teach men and rebuke men. He has He he has jesus being arrested by romans in the second season

01:56:17

And jesus is You know, it's totally nonchalant and Giving answers that you know, it's it's it's all extra biblical

01:56:35

He What they have jesus do in the show Is he doesn't address repentance they have mary magdalene go and get drunk and Revert back to her sinful lifestyle because of ptsd and He doesn't address repentance at all.

01:56:57

He just says he may he's like didn't you ever don't don't you know I You you're you're bound to mess up again

01:57:05

I I saved you not to be perfect. I I just called you called you out to follow me

01:57:13

It it's And and the pharisees This is what gets me the most with what they do with the pharisees

01:57:22

They have pharisees reject jesus not because he goes against their traditions But because they have such a rigid strict interpretation of torah now if you if you read the if you read the teachings of The talmud and you read the the oral traditions a lot.

01:57:43

They skew a lot of the old testament They don't actually interpret it literally like it's supposed to be interpreted but Aside from that they teach that people who hold close to the scriptures

01:57:57

Are the pharisees so people like you and me? We're pharisees because we only believe

01:58:07

Uh what the bible has revealed about god. It's a good point

01:58:13

A lot of professing christians say that stuff today, too Yeah, so, um melissa owens.

01:58:20

You had a question a little bit earlier. Um, The first book of andrews that he wrote is called.

01:58:26

What do they believe and and this is one you said you have He goes through the uh, the main western religions and uh does a fantastic job of it

01:58:34

So he goes through judaism roman catholicism islam mormons jehovah's witnesses

01:58:40

And then the last chapter is on christianity, which is just giving you the basic doctrines of of uh christianity

01:58:48

Um so that you can see where these other false religions differ from biblical christianity then he turned that last chapter into his

01:58:59

Second book which is called. What do we believe? And this is basically a 200 page systematic theology of the christian faith

01:59:07

And as I as I tell people when I go to conferences You can read wayne grudem like this

01:59:13

Although you have to paperclip a few pages together as phil johnson says a couple of and uh, there's there's other systematic

01:59:20

Theologies joseph and I just talked about this what I think last yesterday evening about different systematic theologies um

01:59:26

Andrew does an unbelievable job written at a lay level In 200 pages like this is a this is a must read book for anybody

01:59:37

So that's what that book is. Um, it's not about mormonism. It's about what do we believe? Yeah, uh one thing

01:59:44

I want to point out here is I mean, we're almost and they're both available for eternity striving fraternities.

01:59:50

That's right One thing I want to point out. I tried to make sure and pull this up This the the video the cartoon that we watched is from ed decker and those guys um, they are they're responsible for um, the god maker movie the god makers movie it's on amazon, but I can't pull it up for some reason.

02:00:13

Maybe one of you guys can pull it up and put it in Um, I can't pull it up for some reason off amazon. It's i'm being blocked like all over the place um, which wouldn't surprise me, but um, the god makers

02:00:25

The god makers movie that's where this came from Uh, it's a clip from it that it actually uh is ed decker

02:00:32

And those are the guys that did fast facts on false religion um They that's another resource.

02:00:38

I didn't even think about just from until just now Uh ed decker those guys are you know

02:00:45

They're the apologetics that when we were little kids, we were all kids and they were doing it. So um

02:00:52

Ron carlson ed decker these guys they did um fast facts on false religion and This is the god makers movie.

02:01:00

Um It's a clip from it and I see the paperbacks here on amazon

02:01:06

Can you can you put that in or put it on the screen so everybody can see it because I can't I can't get to it.

02:01:11

I don't know what it is Yeah, everybody everybody hates me. I don't know what it is They're trying to trying to shut us down I think they look over me because I don't

02:01:24

All I do is a bunch of sharing. I don't do a lot of actual posting well, uh, we were actually gonna do a a whole other um

02:01:37

Yeah, i've got a vpn captain black eagle. Um, it's a very good one. Um And maybe that's what's making it angry

02:01:43

But no, we were actually going to do a show, uh, and we're going to deal with Other other topics that have come up and we're probably going to need to do that You know, that's another hour.

02:01:54

Let me share it. Okay That's another hour or two. Uh a discussion that we would be having um

02:02:02

On um on the things that are going on with the sbc and the cover -ups that are going on. Um Maybe we can

02:02:09

I don't know, you know Get that next thursday unless we got something planned Uh, we have something planned next thursday.

02:02:16

Andrew has a guest. He's bringing on a nathaniel jeanson from anson's genesis Oh, well, never mind.

02:02:22

We didn't do that. So we need to do that Somebody said anthony time and i'm just gonna tell you i'm exhausted

02:02:29

I'm exhausted guys. I can't do anthony time Even though I will say this

02:02:36

Just tag teaming me. I'll take over. I have not seen anthony In a show

02:02:42

We haven't done a show together a full show since it's been it's probably been four or five months

02:02:51

Maybe longer maybe longer. It's been a long time and I I was wondering where is he at?

02:02:57

Where's he at? Because he's here and i'm not i'm not he's here. It's it's been back and forth But you know, I'll just tell you, you know we are trying so hard to to produce content that Will glorify god

02:03:09

And will help the body of christ and I can't say it enough if you like what we're doing, please share it because people are

02:03:18

Uh, no, i'm not choking up. I'm not choking up But no, seriously, I love my brother. They anthony knows how

02:03:24

I feel about him. Just I knows, you know, john. John knows, you know, justin Everybody has a name

02:03:31

Yes I thought it was just like click commander chicken, man. I mean Yeah, well see

02:03:36

I know him I know john really well and so you know, so I I know him unless I can just throw it in there just like that, but we just in like How many time zones difference now?

02:03:48

Was it five? Uh, yeah, but I mean We we try so hard to produce this content if you guys want to you know

02:03:59

Want to support us or if you have ideas Uh, if there's anything like you want to know about something that's pressing uh, if you guys will you know

02:04:08

Go to info. Uh, what is it? Contact us? Contact us on striving for eternity

02:04:15

Uh trying for eternity .org slash support that's support. That's not contact There we go

02:04:22

Info at striving for eternity .org If you guys will contact us and let us know what you want to hear about what's impressing to you

02:04:28

Uh, we we are going to talk about the sbc we're going to talk about um, what's his face that went out there and Tried to force himself on the women and I say what's his face because there's multiple ones we had all the in the lineup to talk about but it's just There's so much to talk about that.

02:04:47

We just don't have that much time so Yeah, if you want to share this video with dallas jenkins if he's not watching because he's probably not

02:04:57

But if you want to share this video dallas jenkins, we'd be happy for him to see it He's more than welcome to come on and try to defend himself

02:05:04

Well, and and I want to point out one thing, too At no point in time. Did we say that he's not a christian?

02:05:10

I can't I don't know if he is or not But what I do know is is he is joining together.

02:05:16

What fellowship does light have with darkness? What accord does christ have with belial? Well, you know what what what do we have to do with a believer with a non -believer?

02:05:26

and our admonition is not to Say he's not a christian, but our admonition is to say that false cults like the lds

02:05:35

Is not christian So don't join with them. Don't get deceived by them Yeah, and that's a good point justin because that you're right.

02:05:44

We can't we can't read his heart all we can say is that he has avoided

02:05:50

Continuously answering very basic questions about christian doctrine and mormon doctrine

02:05:55

And he's and it it seems like he's purposefully avoided it with the way that he's gone on these nonsensical rants

02:06:03

Yeah, and so so dallas jenkins. That's where you're you're to be held accountable is is you need to If you truly are a christian you're going to put

02:06:14

God above man you're going to put god above your business and about the money that you're you're going to make

02:06:20

And and recognize that you know what you may upset the mormons But hopefully many will get saved through this even if you don't make as many bucks because it's not being promoted by the mormons

02:06:33

Yeah, and that's the whole issue. I mean guys If you have the wrong jesus and the wrong starting point you have the wrong middle and the wrong end

02:06:44

Guys, uh, tricia burton. She came up and and I do not know tricia Uh, I hope to get to know her, uh get to hear her story

02:06:51

That she came out from five generations of the lds She's the one been affirming that what we're saying is true

02:07:00

And she came out because she heard the gospel guys. The problem is is you will not hear the gospel in an occult

02:07:07

You won't hear the truth that jesus christ eternally god Became man

02:07:14

And came to this world because we are sinners to save sinners and to restore the the the earth back to What it was before the found before the fall

02:07:28

He came to not only not only save our souls But he's going to restore the davidic throne

02:07:36

And the kingdom restoration we believe in all that somebody asked earlier that if you know dispensational pre -millennial, what is there a problem with that?

02:07:44

Well, everybody in this group that you've seen so far. We're all dispensational pre -millennial. There's only one

02:07:49

You know non -dispensational heretic that's out there. That's drew vanita, you know, and i'm just kidding.

02:07:55

He's not Dear dear, you love the brother, but you know, he'll grow in his understanding one day

02:08:00

He'll get there and if he doesn't when the rapture happens and he's he's gonna be up there He'd be like told you so and he's gonna be oh cool man.

02:08:07

This is great All my all my amillennial friends say that uh, they reserve the right to change your mind midair and I say that's fine

02:08:13

I love that. I love that. Yeah, and and guys now think about this The reason we can play around on those things is because we have the solid essentials, correct?

02:08:24

Okay Trisha would have never come out of mormonism You know out of the false converts would have never come out of false conversion false believers, you know the the ones in roman catholicism buddhism hinduism, you know

02:08:39

Reiki and all these other false, you know things would never come out If they did not hear the truth from you

02:08:48

Dallas jenkins, you can't just sit there and say oh I have lds brothers and sisters. No, you don't if they believe

02:08:55

What we've talked about tonight, they're not brothers and sisters in christ and they need to hear the truth from you Yeah, that's right

02:09:05

Drew I just love you to all the pieces. I have no problem changing my mind in midair Oh good great brother, okay guys you got anything else

02:09:17

Uh, no, I I think we've uh, we've covered this as well so we couldn't the time we had so yeah

02:09:22

Yeah, i'm surprised you didn't have 30 more questions Look I have pages up on my

02:09:28

I I know your laptop if you if anyone wonders why i'm looking down at times I have my laptop right in front of my big computer

02:09:34

Um so I can go through Everything. I got tons of notes here that haven't been touched

02:09:41

That's okay. Melissa. Well, what you need to do is you put them in a in a word doc and then we'll attach it to this

02:09:47

I said, okay. Melissa says it's all gonna pan out in the end. That's right. So she's a pan millennialist.

02:09:53

Yeah All right. Well, hey guys If you uh, if you liked what we did give us a review at love the podcast slash apologetics live support us

02:10:01

Um, we'll be seeing you next thursday and uh share everything we've got all our content with as many people as you can