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Sunday school from September 26th, 2021
Okay, well, let me pray let me pray and then we'll get started Lord Jesus as we again open up your word. We pray that through your Holy Spirit We may rightly understand believe confess and do according what you have revealed there in your word.
We ask in Jesus name. Amen. All right, so there were questions. There mark has a question. Josh has a question as it relates to the sermon. So. Yes, so so the question it relates those of you online if you didn't hear the question the question relates to the intermediate state for the damned and and so Let me let me give you a text on this so that we've got this sorted out and I'm not just winging it because that Would be bad.
Let's see here. I need a New Testament text and I'm going to look for Lazarus hang on a second here in the gospel of Luke in particularly. Here we go. Luke 16. All right. So Luke chapter 16 and this is where you'll note that in my in my sermon I wasn't as Precise as some might want because the question is there are people if people are in hell today.
Are they taken out of hell at the Day of Judgment only to be thrown back into hell? Kind of that that's that's a legitimate question and let me see here. All right, here we go. Luke chapter 16 verse 19 There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen who feasted sumptuously every day now.
When I preach on this text in the past, I always point out the this this rich fellow. What's his name again? It's what's his face? We don't know his name. All right, and the idea then here is is that in Scripture if you go if you End up in hell You die in unbelief you go into eternity nameless.
If your name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life, you have a name. Otherwise Jesus says I don't know who you are. Who are you? Right? So I always like to point out this this rich fellow. He ends up going to hell without a name and at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus covered with sores.
Who desired to be fed with whatever fell from the rich man's table moreover? Even the dogs came and licked his sores. So the poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side Kopos here you could it gets translated in some translations as Abraham's bosom.
So the idea then is is that prior to Christ's death burial Resurrection and ascension the intermediate state for Christians was in Sheol. So if you were to you know Look look this up kind of in the Old Testament The the place that everybody who was dead went to was Sheol and we learned from Jesus in this text that Sheol has two Compartments if you would one is referred to as Abraham's bosom and The rich man and the and the rich man also died and was buried in Hades.
Hades is what gets translated as hell in in many translations as well. And so if you want to make a proper distinction between Hades and the lake of fire the ultimate hell. Then you can make that distinction.
But Oftentimes and you'll see this in English translations. Hades will get translated as hell. And so when it's when we confess in the creed Christ descended into hell. The the the original text says Hades he descended into Hades.
And and so always and again you get questions as it relates to the intermediate state for the unbeliever. So the unbeliever then is held in judgment and already beginning to experience the torments of an eternity.
In the lake of fire in Hades and the question is where is Sheol? Always and again in the Old Testament Sheol is described as being in the inner part of the earth. So, you know those who died they descend to the dead.
They descend to Sheol and then you remember the one time that Samuel the Prophet was conjured up by King Saul. You know the the witch of Endor Engaged in necromancy and he actually Samuel actually showed up it talks about him ascending, you know.
Coming up from the grave kind of an interesting thing. So when we talk then about hell. There is a wide sense you can talk about hell and then there's a narrow sense that you can talk about hell. Hell in the wide sense is going to include the intermediate state in Sheol or in Hades for the unbeliever and the in the super narrow sense then is the ultimate terminus for all persistence in an unbelief, which is the lake of fire and then I would note that Rich man also died was buried in Hades being in torment.
He lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off at a side and he caught out father Abraham have mercy on me. Send Lazarus dip the end of his finger in water to cool my tongue for him anguish in this flame.
So Hades itself, I would note Qualitatively has probably no major difference between the final end so. You know the the torment already begins they they they they are already if you sent and if you were to kind of put it prejudged by virtue of their impenitence and refusal to be forgiven and Then you know the Day of Judgment will kind of sort all of the rest of it out.
And then once all of that is sorted out. Then the final final and this hell in the narrow sense is the is the lake of fire. Does that make sense? Okay, since Josh didn't ask is isn't here. He's the one who asked the question Marilyn.
You have a follow-up on that. Okay. Okay. Yeah so the question then is this is this the kind of the heart of the the twisting of Scripture and the creating of the doctrine of purgatory. All right, so in Roman Catholic in the Roman Catholic Church They teach that there's there's another intermediate state for those who die in the faith.
Having not dying in a state of having committed a mortal sin. So you still you know, you're still in good standing with God, but you haven't achieved sinless perfection in this lifetime. So in their in their way of thinking since the unholy cannot be in the presence of the holy.
Therefore there has to be a time of purgation where God is going to burn off what's left of your sinful nature and. So the unbeliever are not the believer who dies in a state of grace, but hasn't achieved perfection.
Then goes to purgatory and if you if you look at the artwork and the descriptions as it relates to purgatory in the Roman Catholic Church, there is no functional difference between hell and purgatory as far as the experience is concerned it's described in terms of fire and burning off and things like this and if you remember the the beginning of the Reformation that the the the spark that lit the whole thing on fire was Johann Tetzel.
Johann Tetzel was sent by Rome by the pontiff for the purpose of engaging in a church fundraising program. And he was selling Indulgences and in History records that this guy was good I mean as far as how he how he he was able to bring the money in and so Because he was given the ability to sell indulgences.
He was he would tell people they can use these indulgences in any manner they wanted and that they could even purchase an indulgence for the for the reason of or for the purpose of Releasing their grandparents or their mother or their father from purgatory and.
So he had this wonderful little jingle that he used to Sing and I guys remember television commercials with jingles like really hokey ones, you know. When I was growing up we had We had Cal Worthington in his dog spot.
Cal Worthington in Southern California was like the most notorious Used car salesman ever and he had a jingle if you're looking for you know. If you're looking for a new set of wheels. It was ridiculous, you know Eddie so but Tetzel had a jingle and his jingle was when a coin in the coffer clings a soul from Purgatory Springs.
Okay, and when you read the 95 theses which are written against Tetzel and against the whole selling of indulgences Luther basically one of his arguments was If the Roman pontiff truly had the authority to Spring people out of purgatory.
Then he should let everybody out out of the kindness and mercy of his heart for free. Okay. Which I think that was a that's a pretty good point on the part of Luther, right? So so and I'll show you the text that's used for the purpose of creating the facade that.
That there's this place called purgatory. Let's see. It's first Corinthians 3 first Corinthians 3 and Here's and I got to do this out of context. So let me find the way to do it out of context. So So I'll read it out of context starting at verse 12.
If anyone builds on the foundation with gold silver precious stones wood Straw each one's work will become manifest. The day will disclose it because it'll be revealed by fire and the fire will test what sort Of work each one has done.
If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives He will receive a ward. If anyone's work is burned up He will suffer loss though. He himself will be saved but only as through fire. You see there it is.
We're gonna be saved only as through fire. Ta-da purgatory. It's in a gun. I'm not buying it you guys don't look what's wrong with you Lutheran's. Yeah, and so and then they use a portion from one of the Maccabees in the Apocrypha where they offer Sacrifices on behalf of the people who died in battle, you know, so all you can offer sacrifices for the dead.
Therefore, you know now that that then so everything's out of context and in we the Apocrypha is not scripture. Jesus never quotes from the Apocrypha is the Word of God ever. None of the Apostles quote from it as if it's the Word of God.
It's not so what is going on there in 1st Corinthians 3 and. And so if you're I know you're gonna be shocked at my solution for figuring out what's going on here I'm gonna invoke the three rules for sound biblical exegesis.
Context context context. So our presenting problem in 1st Corinthians 3 Is begins in verse 1 I but I brothers I could not address you as spiritual people. But as people of the flesh infants in Christ, I fed you with milk not solid food.
You were not ready for it. Even now you're not ready for it for you're still in the flesh for while there is jealousy and Strife among you. Are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way for when one says I follow Paul.
Another says I follow a polis. Are you not being merely human? I follow Roseboro. Don't do that. Okay. We can just get that just forget that all together. Okay. So what then is a polis? What is Paul? Servants through whom you believed as the Lord assigned to each of us.
I planted a polis water. God gave the growth so neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything. Let that sink in. Okay, I'm a nobody. Paul's and nobody. All right, the one who plants the one who waters there nothing only God who gives the growth he who plants and he who waters.
They're one each will receive his wages according to his labor. For we are God's fellow workers. You are God's field God's building and then watch where he goes with this and this if I can give you a cross-reference.
We all know the verse because we've heard pastors say it before. I sometimes wonder if some pastors actually believe it. But scripture is clear that you be careful if you want to desire to be a teacher in Christ Church because every teacher in Christ Church Automatically gets into a different line on the Day of Judgment and the line is the stricter judgment line.
All right, and so what's described here in first Corinthians 3, I think is part of this stricter judgment. So the idea then is is that Paul's making it clear those who preach and teach in the church. They are fellow workers with God and and so the idea then is is that there's a stricter judgment.
So then he says according to the grace of God given to me like a skilled master builder. I laid a foundation and Someone else is building on it. So let each one of you care how he builds upon it for no one can lay a foundation.
Other than that, which is laid which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold silver precious stones wood a straw. Each one's work will become manifest. So think of it this way.
If the foundation is Christ now now this kind of deals with the stricter judgment thing. So you have a pastor who truly believes in Jesus? That's not the question whether or not they're saved now. The stricter judgment comes into play and all of their work in the church.
The building materials are going to be subjected to fire to determine what they were. Did the pastor build with precious stones with gold and silver or did he cut corners? Did he not build according to code?
Did he use schlocky building materials and go? Right, right. So that's kind of the idea, you know, so and by the way as a pastor I have all I have all kinds of decisions. I have to make on a weekly basis from week to week I can look at my schedule and say, you know what?
I'd rather go out and do some photography this week I'll just not Do my job and preparing my sermon. Oh, I'll wing it, you know, in fact, I'm not even gonna wing it. I'm just gonna tell talk about myself and I'm gonna tell some really good jokes.
All right, I'll tell some good pastor jokes because every you guys love those things right. Remember you guys remember our Old Testament text from Numbers today where that where that fellow was? Complaining that L dad and me dad were prophesying and and and who were they talking to?
Joshua the son of none. So I mean think about it folks think about it. We had L dad me dad and no dad Dwayne's ways gone and we pay you for this. Okay. Yeah. Alright, so I could just stand up comedy every week and and you know, and I could draw a crowd right?
You know what you we can I can rather than telling you what you need to hear I'll just tell you what you want in here. You guys want to tell want me to tell you how that you can use Jesus to make you rich.
Oh, I can do that. Okay. Yeah, right I can do it so I'm gonna start building with building materials really awful building materials and. And I could sit there and go man. Look at how big this church is that the that I built here on the foundation of Christ.
And Jesus is all alright, let's check that let's test that thing out and he you hear. Here's the here's the torch and he just takes your works and he tosses the flame onto it and it goes. Right, so the guy building with schlocky building materials, how is that gonna do in the on the fire?
Not so good, right and that's the point here. So if anyone builds on the foundation with gold silver precious stones wood. Hey straw. Each one's work will become manifest. For the day will disclose it because it'll be revealed by fire and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done.
This isn't purgatory. This is this is the stricter judgment bit where all pastors and teachers in Christ Church have their work judged by fire. Well, I look at this text and go. That would be really cool.
Oh, I. Could you imagine you don't have to imagine this is gonna you we're gonna see this Actual pastors who've built empires to themselves out of wood hay and straw right and Jesus takes the torch to it and the whole thing burns and What does the text say?
So if anyone is built on the foundation if what he's built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. Well, the only thing that's gonna survive fire is that Golden silver and precious stone stuff, right if anyone's work is burned up.
He will suffer loss. Though he himself will be saved but only as through fire. Now is that teaching purgatory? No, okay. So the purgatory doctrine that's where it comes from. Is that they twist this text and pours meaning into it?
That just doesn't exist. And so I One time pointed this out to somebody who was a Roman Catholic and I was chastised By them and here was their chastisement. Pastor Rose, bro. You're not allowed to have individual Interpretations of biblical texts.
That's not how the church is interpreted. So your interpretation is wrong. To which I said, I know how to read. Okay, the tech I know the text says what it means and it means what it says. All right. So, all right mark, we've been hanging on to your question.
Let's let's get it on the table. I'm gonna brace myself here. Yeah, yours mentions fire, okay, well we used to work for the US Postal Service so this does make sense, you know. Okay, so mark 9 let me get there.
Yes, so this is a tough text. Yeah mark 9 and you'll note that that wasn't what I was emphasizing in my sermon. But it does show up in the readings. So let's take a look at it. Mark 9 40 what? 49. Okay.
So here's the tail end of this and this is this is one of the more difficult Portions of this passage in fact of the Gospels to exegete. So let me back up into our context here. Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin.
It'd be better for him if a great millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea. In fact, just you know, don't let the mafia get involved. Just do it yourself, right? Yeah, this is what the mafia does to those who cross them, right?
So if your hand causes your sin cut it off. It's better for you to enter life crippled then with two hands and go to the hell of to hell to the unquenchable fire. If your foot caused you to sin cut it off.
It's better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell and you'll note here that you know. You know. This is a different word that used for hell Rather than Hades. But they are English translations will translate both of them as hell.
If your eye causes you to sin tear it out. It's better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye then with two eyes and be thrown into hell. Where the worm does not die the fire does is not quenched for everyone will be salted with fire.
Salt is good. But if the salt has lost its saltiness, how will you make it salty again. Have salt in yourselves? Be at peace with one another. And Everyone reads this and goes Huh. Okay. Now here's where we have to use kind of the metaphor and I I've always found that in order to get This I have to throw the cross references in too.
So here we have a text that is as clear as what? Mud muddy salt, right. Then Jesus talks this way also again in the Sermon on the Mount. All right, bless for the righteous on my account, okay, so here he goes Matthew 5 13 You are the salt of the earth, but if the salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored?
It's no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people's feet. I Clear that up. No. All right. So I if if this will help you feel any better. We I had entire seminary classes whole classroom conversations based on salty texts all right, and there's a reason why is because These texts are not clear and you have to start extrapolating things in order to kind of work this out.
So when you use the cross reference here salt of the earth and the idea then is is that salt is Something that makes something tasteful. Tasty and without salt it it's bland. It doesn't make any sense and what Christ here is doing in our gospel text and in other places.
The salt is a reference to Jesus and you sit there going. How do you figure? All right, here's how because there is a little known passage in all in the Old Testament and One of the things I've noted when I taught through the Pentateuch was that When you look at the sacrificial systems, okay, all of the different sacrifices that are required.
All right. You got you got you know sacrifices for young Kapoor for guilt offerings for sin offerings and all these other things. There is a tiny passage in the Mosaic Covenant that is super easy to miss and in that text it explicitly says that every single sacrifice Must be made with salt.
Okay. I want you to think about it. Okay, let me see if maybe see if I can find it. I think it's in Leviticus, but I've got to do a little hunting here. Hold on a second here. Duplicate tab. And I am going to look for salt and There it is, all right.
All right. So Leviticus 2 you shall season all your grain offerings with salt. You shall not let the salt of the covenant with your God be missing from your grain offerings with all your offerings you shall offer salt.
Okay. So here's here's kind of the implication is is that when you have such an obscure reference. This is the kind of stuff that sometimes God desires that you read something and go. I have no idea what that means and so you're walking through your day going.
I just don't know what that means and you're thinking on it. You're thinking on it. You're thinking on it. You talk to other people and they're thinking on it and and you just wrestling and wrestling and wrestling.
And so what do you do you keep reading your Bible and then you come across Leviticus 2 13 you sit there and go. Wait a second. Every single offering has to be offered with Salt and you don't see this command except for here and.
So if you have not read and reread the Mosaic Covenant as an Old Testament Jew, it's easy to miss this little feature and. Then one day you sit there and go. Oh everything has to be offered with salt.
Okay, so if every single offering has to be offered with salt. Then wait a second here everyone will be salted with fire. This is talking about judgment. Everyone being salted with fire. All right. Now, wait a second here if I'm salted with fire.
Here's then I'm Roasting for my sins and it's in the context of suffering for your sins, but then Jesus says salt is good. But if the salt has lost its saltiness, how will you make it salty again? You sit there and go what's going on here?
He kind of switched channels on you real quick here. So here you have Going back to the Mosaic Covenant. Every single offering is a substitutionary offering that animal is dying instead of you. You are living it is suffering the consequences of your sin and every single offering has to be offered with salt.
Okay, so you either are the one who is going to experience the fires of hell or The salt then connect that tiny little substance connects it back to Christ because every one of those offerings Offered with salt is a type and shadow pointing to Jesus.
So you everyone is salted with fire you've you and I have all been salted with fire. But here's the thing Jesus took that for us. He's our sin and so the idea then is is the saltiness is a reference to his death on the cross.
Salt is good. But if the salt has lost its saltiness, how will you make it salty again answer? What's he talking about here? The preaching of the gospel. If somebody is out there preaching Christ. But not preaching him crucified for our sins and the gospel isn't the core of their preaching and teaching.
You have a salt list. Christianity the salt is connected to the sacrifices and to these sacrifice to Christ. So have salt in yourselves and be at peace with one another. Oh if salt is referring to the sacrifice of Christ I can have salt in myself and then the result of that is what peace with everybody else.
So as soon as you can connect the salt to the sacrifices and to these sacrifice Christ and how it's connected. Then you can start to unravel these texts, but fantastic question. Did I help? Okay. All right.
That was pretty salty me to ask that. So yeah. All right. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Mm-hmm. Preservative. Yep. That's right. Yeah. That's right salt will draw infection out. It'll also preserve right exact and that and see when you start then connecting the gospel to the salt.
Then you can talk about the properties, right? Yet you could yeah. Yeah, so you can assault a fire. Yeah, sorry my apologies here. All right, let me check questions here in our chat. Make sure we haven't missed anything.
Dane had a question about the sermon and I believe it was the same question. Is it that Josh had okay had the same question? Oh good. So so my question then is for you all y 'all have we answered your questions effectively as it relates to Hades and to salt.
You know, okay good new heaven and new earth. We net we get new bodies. So with those cast into the lake of fire it is there is it is it their bodies for eternity? Here's the thing at the resurrection when Jesus returns.
Every single human being is raised from the dead in a body that does not die. Kind of work that out. Okay. All right. So Carmen says why was no one trying to save anyone from Shale in the Old Testament like no other people would go to heaven than Jews.
So car Carmen that's not exactly true. So when we especially as we're working our way through the book of Jeremiah note the themes over and over again in the book of Jeremiah calling the people of Judah to repent of their sins and To be forgiven and that they would avert God's wrath which is which in Jeremiah Jeremiah preaches very overtly about hell and that the ultimate consequence of Persistence and an idolatry would not only be God's judgment with the destruction of Jerusalem, but that they would suffer in hell.
Jeremiah talks in these ways and we'll see that but then you'll note that you'll also see in God calling Judah to repent. Part of the themes that you see in the prophets is is that with the children of Israel?
Repenting of their sins and believing in God that God would bless them and that God by blessing them. That that would cause the fear of Yahweh to to come into the hearts of those who out were outside of Israel so.
So God was absolutely Concerned about Gentiles as well. And indeed he promises in the gospel in Genesis 15 that the seed of Abraham would be a blessing to all nations. That the idea then is is that always the intent of God was to use the Jews for the purpose of bringing the Messiah.
But that the all nations would be saved and forgiven as a result of Christ. That was always the intent and it's very clearly taught out taught out in the Old Testament as well the Jews had a really pernicious way of kind of thinking that They had the super inside scoop and that they just preferred that everybody else would go to hell and you can see this by the way when I You really want to get an example of this.
I always come back to to Jonah. All right. Always and again the worst preaching ever is on Jonah. But when you read the book out, it's really fascinating so We'll take a look at the outside chapters rather than the inside bit.
I'll remind you what's on the inside the word of Yahweh came to Jonah the son of Amittai saying arise and go to Nineveh that great city and call out against it for Their evil has come up before me. But Joseph Jonah rose to flee to Tarshish from the presence of Yahweh.
He went down to Joppa found a ship going to Tarshish so he paid the fare and went down into it to go with them to Tarshish away from the presence of Yahweh and Always and again bad preaching on this text will go something like this though.
So when the Lord tells you to do something that's crazy as it might sound. Don't don't you flee to your Tarshish or God will cause a fish to come swallow you up. No, no bad bad really bad. Okay, the better question to ask because it's actually answered in the quote in the text.
Why is Jonah going the other way? Okay. What we know about Nineveh. Okay, so the the Ninevites they are. Well, they're so brutal in war that they made they make the Nazis look like little schoolgirls like upstarts all right that it was the Ninevites and the Assyrians themselves that they.
They were the ones who invented the prototype for crucifixion but rather than using a cross and a cross beam what they would do with the Men that they captured who fought against them after they would win a battle.
They would take their bodies and they would put them on a pike and then you know. And then take their bodies and put them up in the air. These guys were horrible and they and they didn't stop at torturing men.
They tortured women and children and the things they did was horrible. And so here God says to Jonah arise go to Nineveh and Call out against it for their evil has come up before me and Jonah heads the other way.
Why and this kind of gets to the Carmen's point? When you when you read What happened Jonah finally his compelled by God, all right. There's no way you can run from God. So Jonah tries to run away. God causes the fish to swallow him.
He spends three days cooling his heels inside of a fish was just had to be wonderful. No air conditioning smells like stomach acids and fish and. Okay, I'm sure he came out bleached. But but you know, so when the Word of the Lord comes to him a second time is off fine.
I'll go right. So here's what happens. Jonah calls out against them and What happens the Ninevite. The Ninevites repent. In Jonah chapter 3 the word reached the king of Nineveh. He rose from his throne.
Removed his robe. Covered himself with sackcloth and sat in ashes. And by the way, Jesus makes it clear in his preaching these Ninevites. They're in heaven. Okay, he said Jesus said to the Jews who wouldn't believe in him that the Ninevites would rise up on the day of judgment and Condemn them for their unbelief.
Let that one sink in. All right. So the king issued a proclamation published throughout Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles. Let neither man nor beast herd nor flock taste anything. Let them not feed or drink water.
But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth and let them call out mightily to God. Let everyone turn from his evil way from the violence that is in his hands who knows God may turn and relent and turn from his fierce anger so that we may not perish and When God saw what they did how they turned from their evil way God Relented of the disaster that he had said that he would do to them and he did not do it.
Next sentence but it displeased Jonah exceedingly and He was angry and He prayed to Yahweh and he said Oh Yahweh. Is this not what I said, you know, you kind of have to throw some attitude in this. Isn't this what I told you.
Okay, I said this when I was in my country. That's why I made haste to flee the Tarsus for I knew you were a gracious God. Merciful slow to anger abounding in steadfast love relenting from disaster, right.
What kind of prophet is this? Okay, I wanted to see hellfire smoke brimstone. You forgave. Right. So I would note Carmen that God seems to care a lot about them Ninevites, right? And you'll note that Jews had a hard time Sharing the mercy of God with others.
Okay, Jonah would prefer that they all burn in hell Rather than be forgiven. Okay. So and so he has a full-on temper tantrum. Therefore now Oh Yahweh take my life kill me. I would rather die than live in a world with those Ninevites are forgiven.
They might want to sit in my pew at church. All right. All right, so the Lord said Do you do well to be angry? Jonah doesn't answer. So Jonah went out of the city sat to the east of the city and made a booth for himself there.
He sat under it and shade until it should see what would come of the city. He's thinking maybe God will send the nuclear winter after all. So Yahweh appointed a plant and made it come up over Jonah. So now God's having mercy on Jonah the guy who's completely disrespected God.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, you know that Jonah isn't here. I decree declare the judgment of God no. So he made it come over and so God appointed a plant made it come over Jonah that it might be shade over his head.
To save him from his discomfort. So Jonah was exceedingly glad because of the plant. All right. But then when dawn came up the next day God appointed a worm that attacked the plant So that it withered and when the Sun rose God appointed a scorching east wind and the Sun beat down on the head of Jonah.
So that he was faint and and he asked that he might die. It is better for me to die than to live. Kind of temper tantrum is this man, but God said to Jonah. Do you do well to be angry for the plant? Joseph yeah, I do well angry angry enough to die.
You Know he's saying it like this, right? So Yahweh said you pity the plant for which you did not labor. Nor did you make it grow which came into being in a night and perished in a night? And should I not pity Nineveh that great city in which there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand persons.
Who do not know their right hand from their left and also much cattle? The end and you sit there you go. Oh God did labor. God is the creator of all of us. Right. He the Lord is the maker of heaven and earth and he has pity on his creation.
He has mercy on us. And so you'll note that God's heart even for the war criminal. Violent no good dirty rotten Ninevites is that they be forgiven and you'll know. The gospel is a scandal to Jonah the forgiveness of sins scandalizes him.
Scandalizes people to this day. Is it any wonder we would prefer not to talk about the forgiveness of sins? I would note today's cancel culture. They're like Jonah. Yeah. Jonah was like the original cancel culture guy.
Just cancel Nineveh. Would you already? Okay I got this. Nope forgiven. Yeah, we all are that's the thing you can't you can't read this and sit there and go. And what does Christ say pray for your enemies.
What. Yeah, and the cattle to. It's not. I also made the cattle and I care about them to. I care about the creation. And you know, that was very moving. Thank you. What why are you looking at me like that?
All right, all right, let's go back to questions. I can see where we're going here. Let's see here. All right, Louise says in the Catholic Church. We were told that purgatory was scriptural. The verse they used was Matthew 18.
Matthew 18 34 the wicked servant won't get out of jail until he pays the last penny. Oh Lord have mercy. That is so bad. Okay, so You brought it up Louise. Let's take a look at this text. I feel like you know, it's so funny in the first catechism class adult catechism class this week I felt like I was doing the Bible answer man and just sometimes, you know.
You get all these questions just kind of come up. And so, all right, let's do this. Let's go for it. All right, Matthew 18 fascinating an important text and we'll take a look at it in Context. So let's see here.
Woe to the world for temptations to sin. Do not despise little ones. All right, here we go verse 15. Here's the beginning of the context. All right. This is the text that deals with church discipline.
Alright, if your brother sins against you, so this is a believer in Christ. This is somebody you go to church with and guess what do church people sin against each other? Yeah. Yes, they do, okay. All right.
So what what do we do? So when somebody sins against you Jesus says get on Facebook and air all their dirty laundry on the internet and Make them look like complete. No, he doesn't say that. Okay. Here's what he says.
So if your brother sins against you you go and tell him his fault between you and him alone if He listens to you've gained your brother so no Christ is very clear the one he's siding with is the one who was sinned against and His goal is that the one who committed the sin would repent and like the Ninevites be Forgiven right?
Okay. But if he does not listen Take one or two others along with you that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. Oh. Somebody's innocent until proven guilty remember that scripture is very clear that when it comes to charges charges have to be established and They have to be weighed by the proper people who are in the right Offices to make judgments based upon those things.
What do we do today? We try people today in the court of public opinion via social media. Uh-uh. No. Charges have to be established by witnesses now, by the way, this doesn't deal with like false teachers.
Somebody's teaching something publicly that's false and you can pull into their YouTube channel and play the thing that and say. That's what they said. And here's what the scripture says. That's not what this is talking about.
So over and again, I get people say to me, you know, Chris, you know. You say a lot of terrible things about Kenneth Copeland. Have you reached out to him to talk to him privately? No. Because this is not what you're supposed to do with a false teacher the in Matthew 18 is when somebody has sinned against you.
Personally, all right. So now you take it two or three witnesses so that the charge may be established and if he refuses to listen to them. Then you tell it to the church. You now make this a church matter.
And why are you telling it to the church so that everyone goes? Oh, I can't believe that they did that. Let me get on the phone and share it with everybody in Oslo. No, you tell it to the church so that everybody in the church now joins in.
Singing the chorus repent brother repent and be forgiven be reconciled. The church is now involved not two or three people everybody in the church is involved. Praying and reasoning with this fellow to get him to turn from a sin if he refuses to listen even to the church.
Then you go all Burger King on him. He gets to have it his way. You don't want to be forgiven. You don't want to be reconciled. Okay, and this is where excommunication happens. Then he's to be to you like a Gentile or a tax collector now real quick question here.
How did Jesus teach treat those Gentiles and tax collectors? Did he make sure to avoid them at all costs never be found in their presence? No, what how did Jesus treat him? Like everybody else. Yeah, yeah.
All right, right. So the idea that in treat is so when somebody's excommunicated. It's not so that you can sit there and go like this. Well glad we got rid of that guy. Okay. No now we're back to the beginning.
We're gonna we're gonna come on the church hear the gospel. Come and and and repent right so we're just Back to the beginning and we're gonna evangelize that person in love. You know excommunication is not for the purpose of having somebody end up in hell.
Excommunication is for the purpose of that person. Recognizing their sin and repenting always in this context and I always tell a story that that I experienced. I you know, I'm one of the rare people who's actually seen excommunication occur.
And this was really early on when my wife and I were very new to the Lutheran Church. We were attending Holy Trinity Lutheran Church in Hacienda Heights, California. It was a little bit of a trek. We lived in Irvine at the time, but that was the closest really truly confessional church.
And so we would pack the kids up and drive all the way out to Hacienda Heights and we had only been attending there for a few months. When one of the younger fellows in the congregation his wife was in a full-on adulterous affair with somebody and her husband found out about it and he confronted her and he desired for her to repent and for them to be reconciled and to save the marriage and She was having none of it.
So he brought it to the elders and says my wife is you know Sleeping with this fella and the elders got involved and called her to repent and she refused so then they brought it to the pastor and the pastor met with her and she let she Basically gave the pastor what for you know, he describes what went down as really being obstinate.
You know her standing her ground. I this man's my soulmate. I love him. I don't love my husband anymore. God would never condemn me for this adult, you know for for having this man all this kind of stuff and she refused to repent.
So he brought it up to the church following Matthew 18. The church got involved in calling her to repent and she basically stopped answering her phone. Wouldn't allow people to contact her and so the church notified her that the following Sunday that the divine service would begin with the right of excommunication and that they were going to turn her over to Satan and So the she showed up for it too, that was a weird part.
So there she is she's sitting in the back of the church and Barb and I are sitting in the back of the church with our kids because that's the safest place to sit when you got kids that are as squirrely as mine were and so, you know, which she's like on the pew over from us and and That was one of the most uncomfortable moments I have ever lived through in my life.
Having them read Matthew 18 the excommunication text and then saying to her that you know that her sins are bound to her and that and she's no longer permitted to come to the Lord's Supper and should she come to church that the absolution doesn't apply to her and and that they were handing her over to Satan for the purpose of saving her soul and After they had excommunicated her she walked out and that was the last I ever saw of her.
Well, I got word years later that She eventually did repent now. It was too late to save her marriage. She repented and confessed her sin and her adultery and cried out to God for mercy and She not only repented she was restored into full fellowship.
All right, but they followed Matthew 18 to the T and the thing is is that you'll note that That it sounds so outrageous to our ears because when was the last time you've heard anything like this and This for us was in the early 90s.
And I haven't heard of any excommunication since then but that doesn't mean there hasn't been any but the church has kind of lost its Lost its backbone to follow this because you'll note then that when Jesus talks about This this excommunication it's in the context of something else and let me explain what the context is.
If you just roll back up into Matthew 18 verse 10 see that you do not despise one of these little ones there we go again. She's talking about his believers as little ones once he cares deeply for I. Tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my father who is in heaven.
So what do you think if a man has a hundred sheep and one of them has gone astray? Does he not leave the 99 on the mountains and go in search of the one that went astray and if he finds it truly? I say to you he rejoices over it more than over the 99 that never went astray.
So it is not the will of my father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish. That's the immediate thing that Jesus says then it then if your brother sins against you in other words The the process of Matthew 18 is the means by which Christ goes after his lost sheep.
When somebody sins against another person and refuses to repent and to be reconciled and refuses to be forgiven. That's a missing sheep. So then you'll note that the steps of Matthew 18 are the means by which the Good Shepherd goes.
Hunting and searching for his lost sheep and we somehow have got it wrong when we think that Excommunication is all about washing our hands of a person and casting him out. That's not the point. The point is is that to kind of wake them up to just how serious this all is so that they will repent all right, and.
Then so then he says so let him be to you as a Gentile as the tax collector truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven. Whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
This is talking about the office of the keys. All right. So the sins you forgive will have already been forgiven the sins you retain or are retained. So Christ here is talking about this. So again, I say to you if two or more of you agree on earth about anything They ask it'll be done for them by my father in heaven.
And this is in the context of church discipline then for where two or three are gathered in my name there. I am among them. This is true for all congregations. But Christ is reminding them then that when you even when you gather for the purpose of excommunication, he's present with you for that purpose.
All right. So it's then in this context that the story continues. Peter came up and said to Jesus Lord How often will my brother sin against me and I forgive him as many as seven times? Because Peter's starting to work this all out.
Wait a second if I these guys who are sinning against me, you know, if if I. If they go on like this continuing to ask me to be to forgive them after they've sinned against me I'm gonna end up, you know.
Being abused, you know, these guys are gonna sin against me constantly. They're gonna take advantage. So so where's the limit for this Jesus? So he he comes up with he think what he thinks is a generous number as many as seven times.
Oh, yeah. All right, you get to see it. Yeah, so could you imagine the seven times rule when somebody sins against you just want to let you know Ashley. You're up to five. Okay, two more and we're done.
Okay, right. Could you imagine how that would work out? Right? All right, Jesus said I don't say to you seven times. It's 77 times or you know the Greek 70 times. 7 is this huge ginormous number, right?
And then he goes therefore note the verse 23 begins with therefore, okay. This is all in this context then. Therefore the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his servants.
When he began to settle one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. Let me give you a little perspective on this number one. The king is Jesus. It's pretty it's you know. Let's just get that on the table.
The king is Jesus and the debt is ten Thousand talents. How much is a talent. About a hundred pounds? Hundred pounds. So ten thousand one hundred pound units of gold. How does a person rack up a debt like that?
I? Mean California isn't even a wash in this much red tape, you know, you know red ink, right? How do you huh? I was I was scrolling Instagram because you know I like to put my photography there and they had an advertisement for a company that will help you invest in gold if you give Them a hundred dollars a month and every time you can afford they'll send you two grams of gold.
How long will it take to? To purchase two grams. Answer well about two and a half months every two and a half months. They will send you a gold ingot of two and a half grams of gold. Okay. Okay, great in other words, it's gonna take a long time to get any gold that's measurable gold is precious.
Gold has always been expensive. So this guy owes 10 ,000 talents might as well be a bazillion dollars and then you got to do the dr. Evil thing a bazillion dollars. Anyway, all right. All right and By the way, if you want to know who this fellow is.
That's you. And so let's make sure we got the characters work out. Jesus is the king you're the servant who owes 10 ,000 talents and Since he could not pay His master ordered him to be sold with his wife his children and all that he had and payment to be made.
He's not gonna get much for that guy. All right. Since you know what it says he could not pay and by the way, that's your lot in mine. I there's no way I can pay my debt to Christ. No way no way you can pay your debt to Christ.
So what is Jesus? So what does he do? So the servant he fell on his knees posture of prayer and humbleness. Imploring him have patience with me. I will pay you everything. No, you're not. Okay, I would like to point out.
What do you think the interest is on 10 ,000 talents of gold? Okay, no the interest daily interest even if it were like. Even if that if it were 2 You would have to be making a lot of money a year just to make the payments on the interest.
Right. Yeah, right you you ain't paying this back. Okay. You ain't paying this but have patience with me. I'll pay you everything and then why did what it say out of pity for him the master of the Servant released him and forgave him the debt.
The whole lot of it 10 ,000 towns 100 fully forgiven. Don't tell me the gospel isn't good news. Right and Don't tell me the gospel doesn't make it so that the dirty rotten sinners don't get off scot-free.
They absolutely do. Who ends up eating this debt the king right. And Rather than praising God and doing an Ebeneezer Scrooge. Right, we've all seen a Christmas story, right? So, you know, there's Ebeneezer Scrooge.
He has that night where he runs into all of these different ghosts and he realizes he's gonna end up in the grave alone and just Terrible and what an awful person is and he wakes up that morning and realizes he's still alive.
And what does he do? He buys the Christmas goose and he can't wait to spread all this Christmas cheer to let everybody Share in the joy that he has and then of course it all ends with tiny Tim saying and God bless us everyone right.
That's what's supposed to happen here. This guy just got forgiven the United States national debt totally forgiven scot-free. He should be spontaneously singing a Broadway musical. The hills are alive with the sound of debt freedom, you know, right?
No, what does he do? All right. So here's your context Louise. I'm blaming you for all of this by the way. All right. I'm sorry. That was looked a lot like the hippos from Fantasia. My apologies. Okay.
All right, so when the servant went out he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii. Let me put that into perspective for you. $1 ,000. For a day laborer a month's wages. That's it.
Right and what does he do? He seizes him and began to choke him saying pay what you owe. Right. I want my five dollars, right? Better off dead reference for those of you who know what I'm talking about, right?
Okay. You have to have grown up in the 80s to know this reference because no one else really watches that movie anyway. So pay me what you owe so his fellow servants fell down. Pleaded with him have patience with me.
I'll pay you. Hmm, this sounds oddly familiar right, and he Refused and he went and put him in prison until he should pay the debt. When his fellow servants saw what had taken place. They were greatly distressed and they went and reported to their master all that had taken place.
Then his master summoned him and said to him You wicked servant I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me and Should you not have had mercy on your fellow servants as I have had mercy on you.
Oops. Wait a second. Don't we pray something like this? Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us, right? So in anger his master delivered him to the jailers until he should pay all his debt.
So also my Heavenly Father will do to every one of you if you don't forgive your brother from your heart. So Louise putting this all back in context, did you see anything they're talking about purgatory?
I didn't see anything about purgatory. This is talking about the fellow whose claims that he's a believer in Jesus. I've had all my sins forgiven and is the most merciless unforgiving Person on planet earth.
It's totally inconsistent. We forgive because he first forgave us. We love because he first loved us and the implication of the gospel then is is that because we're at peace with God that that the other gospel then flowing over us then pours out to other people and This comes back to what Christ said you are the salt of the earth.
If the salt has lost its saltiness, what good is it if we lose the gospel? We've lost everything. Everything and if we're not treating each other with kindness mercy Gentleness love respect and if we're not at peace with one another in church.
Do we believe the gospel do we really recognize that we've been forgiven a bazillion a Trillion gazillion dollars in debt that we owe to God because of our sin. That's the point of the text. Right has nothing to do with purgatory.
And if I were a Roman Catholic, I would be embarrassed to even Take this text and try to use it as a pretext for purgatory because it's not All right. All right last question. So since we spoke about Jonah, can you explain the three days and three nights scriptures?
Because it seemed two nights in three days. You ask a great question Carmen. All right, so I actually wrote an article about this years ago All right so here's the thing when you when you tally up the Verses where Jesus talks about the fact that he's going to be dead one.
Sometimes he says he'll rise on the third day and then in the reference to Jonah he says he's going to be he's going to be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights and Here is your issue.
Okay, is that both are true, but you have to learn how to think like a Jew and let me explain. Okay, when does the new day begin? For a Jew. It's unsaid. Okay, and When does okay, so if that's when the new day begins when the Sun goes down.
That's when a new day begins. All right now here's where there's a prophecy and I gotta I gotta hunt this down real quick because I got to find my Text and this requires me to go to my blog and on my blog.
I actually wrote about this. So it's Fighting for the faith. You know, it's I gotta spell it right Fighting for the faith calm. I'm gonna go to the captain's log. Hold on a second here and Let's go to captain's log and I actually wrote it.
Whoa. Hello. Sorry about that Josh. I know your ears are bleeding now. Okay, hang on a second here. Let me hunt this down. Let's see here. Doo-doo-doo scrolling scrolling scrolling. Hang on a second here.
Let's see here. No No I'm gonna I'm gonna hunt this down. There it is. Okay. Haha, okay, so in I think it's in the Prophet Amos and I'm gonna let this load up, okay. Let's okay. So So a lot so here's what I've put this is my contribution biblical proof that Jesus died on Friday not on Wednesday a Lot of ink has been spilled regarding which day Jesus died on on the one hand the gospel narratives make it clear that Jesus died on the day before the Sabbath Saturday.
And so I quote Luke 23 here. But on the other hand if it's true that Jesus died on a Friday then it appears that there is a contradiction in Scripture. Jesus himself explained that he would be in the tomb for three days and three nights.
And here's your reference Carmen Matthew 1244 just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish. So will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth?
Well, if you tally it up even using the Jewish way of keeping time something something's missing. So when someone quickly sums up the days and nights that Jesus was in the heart of the earth if he died on Friday.
The math doesn't just doesn't seem to add up. So so you have Friday night Jesus is crucified at 9 in the morning and he dies at the ninth hour, which is 3 in the afternoon. So there's your first day and by the way in the Jewish way of thinking any part of a day is considered like a whole Day, so you got one day two days and he rises on the third, but he says three days three nights.
So you got Saturday night? This is your first day Sunday this so this is your second day and this is your third day. So in order to solve this resolve this problem, it's helpful to know that Jews do not count days according to 24 hour time period.
They count days according to night day cycles. This way of counting days is revealed in Genesis 1 and there was evening there was morning the first day. There was evening there was morning the second day you got the idea.
So note scripture reveals that a new day begins at sunset not midnight. But even knowing this information doesn't totally solve the apparent contradiction. So the reason is is that when you count up the days and nights?
Jesus was in the quote heart of the earth if he died on a Friday you come up one day short. Okay, one night short. So Jesus dies during the day Friday so you got plus one Saturday. Jesus is dead during the night plus one day and during the day plus one day.
You got the idea Jesus is dead. So three days and two nights you're missing you're missing part of it. So no matter how to no matter how you add it up. We're missing a night. All right. Uh-huh but and so we got just as Jonah was in the Was three days and three nights in the belly of fish.
So the Son of Man so some have tried to resolve this by seeming contradicting by postulating that Jesus had to die on a Wednesday. That's that's that's that's another way, but there's a real simple solution.
It's found in Amos 8 Verses 8 and 9 let me read it to you and on that day declares Yahweh Elohim I will make the Sun go down at noon and darken the earth in broad daylight. The missing night is while Christ is on the cross.
Okay. That's the missing night. So remember Jesus dies in the dark. He dies in the dark. So if you read that right God all the way back in the Old Testament told us that he was gonna cause on that day.
The day of crucifixion the Sun to go down at noon. So what time of the day during Jesus's crucifixion did the Sun stop shining answer? It was now about the 6 hour noon and there was darkness over the whole earth until the 9th hour 3 p .m.
So if God caused the Sun to go down at noon and there was darkness from 12 p .m To 3 p .m. Because the Sun's light failed did Jesus die at night or did or did he die during the day? He died at night. All right, and so.
So answer since God called the light day in the darkness He called night the answer is obvious Jesus died in the sunless darkness caused by God when he made the Sun's light to fail at noon on that day and God calls Darkness that he calls that night.
So with this data then we can now accurately make an accounting of the sequence of day and night which took place on Good Friday. Here's what it really looks like Friday night. This is the night Jesus is betrayed.
During the day then he's crucified at noon. The Sun goes down and it's nighttime and then you have the beginning of a new day when the Sun begins shining again after his death. So now we've got three days and three nights and it's all because you have to just pay attention to the details.
So Jesus does rise on the third day for sure. And he is three days and three nights in the heart of the earth because he dies at night. So that's the answer to your question Carmen, which is a great one, by the way.
Alright, I've got to wrap up here. So peace to you brothers and sisters and Lord willing. We'll see you all next time.
