Laborers'- What is true Biblical unity?

Cling to the cross then put both arms around it. Hold to the crucified and never let him go. Come afresh to the cross at this moment and rest there now and forever. Then with the power of God resting upon you go forth and preach the cross.

True Biblical Unity Versus Ecumenism

Welcome to the laborers podcast. Thank you for joining us tonight. We are going to be discussing true Biblical unity, we hope you will stick with us.

Welcome to the laborers podcast, which is a part of the truth in love network. Join us as together we strive to grow up together in all things into Christ. Subscribe and follow the truth and love network on Facebook YouTube Rumble Spotify and iTunes.

Now, let's join our laborers for tonight's broadcast.

Welcome back to the laborers podcast. The comment line is open. We would love to hear from you. Give us a critique. We're open to that. How can we pray for you? We'd love to know that as well or ask questions or even just let us know that you're watching.

We'd love to hear from you. Oh my goodness. We have a full house. Full house. Look at this. Oh.

What you just kicked out Jonathan for Dan.

Jonathan got raptured. Where'd he go? It's not what we've been wrong.

Wait, I thought we weren't talking about the Rapture tonight. We are not. So you got there is. Well, if you go back to the other format, I think you can fit Jonathan in that little corner there either way.

All right, so We got an interesting topic tonight. Biblical unity is everybody just geared up excited for this one.

Awesome I.

Want to have to find a different background, but it's not working.

So many people but that's good. That's a good thing. We've not had this big of a group in a while.

I know right? This is fantastic. That's really good. We'll go.

Hey Tyler. Is your background where it shows the all the links between Old Testament New Testament promise it is.

It is so cool, I just turned back to look at it like it was here.

That's not good the background is.

Oh.

Well, we're gonna be talking about biblical unity tonight and Have a fantastic group with us. I'm thankful for all your brothers. So let's jump in. The first question is What is? Biblical unity and I phrased it as what is true biblical unity because I think there's a there's a foe Unity out there.

There's there's an attempt. There's a sin I'm probably a sincere heart in attempting to strive for.

Unity.

But I think I think we've missed the mark in some way. So we want to know what what true biblical unity is. From from your perspective as you study scripture as you've walked in ministry. What is true biblical unity.

And then we'll tackle that second part Of that question.

Can I say a couple things first? Yes, sir. Because I you phrased it that what is true biblical unity and I think there are times where? Knowing what the counterfeit is is helpful and better understanding what the true thing is.

And I was actually thinking about this today as I recorded bread of the word today with the Tower of Babel. Because they were very unified in what they set out to do. The exact wording is let us build a city in a tower Whose top may reach unto heaven and let us make a name lest we be scattered upon the face of the whole earth.

Their whole motivation for building that tower was to keep themselves together to make a name for themselves. But it was a unity that was founded upon rebellion to God. It was a unity that was founded upon Being the arbiter of their own fate.

But then you skip over to the next chapter and God makes himself known to Abram and What does he say? He says I will make your name great. He takes the the promise and he takes the motivation from Babel that was rooted in rebellion against God and he turns in on his head and.

And so he tells Abraham I'm gonna make your name great. I'm gonna make you a blessing to many people and. That that just paves the way for what God continues to unveil through Israel and through eventually with the church that there's this idea that God is bringing together people for something great.

But that great thing brings glory to God not to themselves.

And.

So when God is bringing together the church when we talk about having a unified church. It is a unity that brings glory to God. I.

Agree, I.

Think.

True biblical unity is going to be focused around around the gospel because it's in the second part of the The the question the clarifying question, you know, it starts out. What is true biblical unity?

Role does the Bible play in our unity? Is there a difference in between what we are attempting to do and ecumenism now as anybody that watches this will know that a Lot of us are from different perspectives, right?

Me and Josh pick at each other all the time. Me and Elias pick at each other me and Tyler Dan. Everybody is from a different a different space right now. Ecumenism says We're gonna lay aside all of those differences and we're just gonna get along no matter what.

But I think true biblical unity is focused solely on the gospel. But while yet Having these distinctions. We're gonna be so focused on Christ and what he's done and By grace through faith in Christ so gospel focused that the other secondary issues the other.

The other things are gonna kind of they're still gonna be there But not something that we're willing to kick each other out of the kingdom for.

Yeah, I think one of the differences between true biblical unity and Ecumenism. Troy, I think I actually wrote down almost exactly what you said, but before we started Ecumenism wants to. It's it's unity at the cost of truth.

So it's it's compromise on core doctrines with people that we confess by and large or. They're out of bounds. They are Following a false gospel. You can't have unity with Mormons. You can't have unity with Jehovah's Witnesses and you can't have unity with Rome.

If they continue on the the path that they've they've been on. Well the path that they were on was Consistent. They've left that past and I don't know what I don't what's gonna happen to him now they're worse off than they were but.

Yeah, so it's it's an it's recognizing other believers as Genuine believers, even though they have different Opinions or convictions on secondary and tertiary doctrines so having humility and grace towards the secondary and tertiary stuff.

Recognizing that they are in Christ. That your camp whatever camp you happen to be in isn't the only one. You're not the one true church and everybody else is a heretic but the having humility towards Others who view secondary issues differently than you recognize that they're in Christ and that you can.

Have.

Fellowship with them it despite differences on secondary and tertiary issues.

Maybe I can clarify one thing.

Mm-hmm.

With ecumenism and I'm the one that added that section to it because I think it's a really important subject when it comes to. When it comes to Unity, especially in modern-day descriptors. It really is defined as it doesn't require you to compromise, but it expects you to ignore compromise.

Yes, in other words. In other words. For example like the homosexual agenda in churches today.

Like.

Conservatively, we read the Bible is very clearly. It's sin. We do not believe in ordaining Homosexual priests, you know those kind of bishops or leaders those kind of situations like that. Ecumenism would not expect me to change my belief on that.

But it would expect me to cooperate with someone who believes differently as if that's not so in other words. It's not going to require me to compromise, but it is Requiring me to ignore strong conviction in order to get along and and so what we're trying to say is there is a place That unity is not possible when it moves outside of the orthodoxy of sound biblical Teaching is that fair?

And I think that's why Roberts first question. I put a circle around Biblical unity there is a difference in in defining unity by scripture. Around the truth of the gospel versus modern day moves or modern or whims of people, you know as as things go along and and system shifts and worlds shifts and culture shift.

Truth and doctrine does not shift and so we can find unity in Sound truth and sound doctrine and so so I think in all it's not on the docket tonight. So not to lead us on a rabbit trail, but in order to have a really sound Understanding of biblical unity.

You also have to have a really sound understanding of biblical separation as well the doctrine of separation because we don't practice unity without Sound separation as well. And so I think that's why the water gets murky a lot of times.

In that is because people don't know where to divide or not, you know or where to celebrate something or not you know, we all saw this past week the lady in the church there that pleaded with President Trump to have mercy and you know on this group and she was talking about that and and I've been engaging with people online about that and I don't have any problem asking someone in power to be merciful to the week the issue was for me the mouth that it came from because she said in the name of our God and The reality is her God is not the same God as my God because she does not have the God of the Bible.

She has a different man-made God, even though she comes under the pretense of Christ. It's not the same. So that's that's what's just important with with that effort. Because ecumenicalism would expect us to call everyone that says hey, I'm a Christian.

We just get along. Even though that there's some very serious matters that divide actually divide us that we could not ignore that make sense. It's a biblical unity is I think what we're striving for.

We're not we're not in this group just striving for ecumenicalism. You know, that's why we talk about hard things. That's when we talk about hard differences that's why we push on each other and we we attempt to be humble with one another on those on those subcategories, but On the main things there is biblical unity and we all wholeheartedly subject ourselves to the authority of Scripture and then we grapple with with correct interpretation and exegesis and hermeneutics and we labor through that so.

So I just wanted to add why I felt like isn't going to add that part of the question.

Man.

Versus we're after biblical unity.

But sure.

Scripture as the Foundation of Unity

Yeah, no, amen and definitely and like, you know the question what role does the Bible play in unity at. I believe it's everything. You know, it's it's it's our foundation, you know God's Word, you know, we believe, you know, we are standing on his truth right, this this word is is a Infallible it's the inerrant Word of God.

And so when you have brothers coming together and they have their differences. It means they go to the scriptures to stand on God's truth and Even though they would have some differences. But they know it's the truth that they unite on which is the gospel and I know and that's a question.

No more down the line. But yeah, you know, so one thing for me is, you know as an Anglican is That you know, we pray the book of common prayer, which is basically not 100 90 90 to 95 scripture we saturate ourselves with the word because we want to pray the word we read read a daily office and so when and that that is just Constantly having God's Word in in in our thoughts and our mouths and in in our deeds, right?

So when when when striving for unity you to hold each of each one of us accountable. We go we use the word we use God's Word. To hold us together it is if without without without that foundation we have we have nothing.

Let me put some things in here real quick, um I'm gonna make this clarification for anybody who's looking in on the truth and love network of labor's podcast the labor's conference. Which you if you haven't registered for please go to labor's conference comm and register.

We will we would love to spend time with you at that conference. But if anybody's looking in on us and they may say well This is their particular niche everybody has their niche this is this is their niche that they're trying to.

You know push push unity. They're trying to push this to push that and and we kind of we kind of hammered through that recently and I wanted to make that clarification that.

Um Unity.

Unity it is not our primary goal here. Our primary goal here together is to glorify God to exalt Christ and in his gospel. And share that gospel. Expose of the word. And that Unity, I believe is a fruit of what the Holy Spirit does in us.

It's not something that we can Muster up and and Do on our own Initiative on with our within our own power. It has to come from the Holy Spirit. It's a fruit of what he does in our life. So it's not our niche.

It's not our ultimate goal.

We've not intentionally sought out Anglicans that come be unified with us. The Anglicans just keep showing up.

I.

Just wanted to clarify that if anybody's looking in on us and the other thing is one of the see from If you guys have had the same experiences pulling from what pastor Jonathan was saying about biblical unity and the doctrine of separation.

From my experience in in church life I think one of the places where I've seen that we we've gone off the rails is there's this local church unity or denominational unity to such a degree that I can't I can't associate all own secondary issues that I can't associate with somebody who is a partial preterist who is a Presbyterian who is an Anglican?

There's this local church Loyalty, there's this denominational loyalty.

That.

Has such a tight grip that I'm not seeking true biblical unity. I'm seeking local church or denominational unity. Have you guys seen or experienced that? Oh.

Yeah, 100

Does. Definitely not just a Baptist thing. But I think that's that that's pretty common and and so many of these denominations is that we we kind of stick over here. Right the almost like it's the brand.

We got to keep the brand intact because people that know how to teach the Bible are Presbyterian. Or they're this or they're that. If I go to my buddies that are over at the local seminary in my town Most of the people they're listening to are gonna be the same doctrinal ism as their professors.

So when I put that I shared a video in our little private chat this week from a Guy who does like theology with puppets and the guy's Pentecostal. I'm not Pentecostal, but I thought he was great. I thought not that guy was.

I was bringing some fire. But there's so many people that I've I've come across that We've got to have everything lined up exactly like me, but that that's. It's loyalty to a brand it's loyalty to my preferred ism as Opposed to as you said loyalty to what Christ is building.

I Think I.

Think it's interesting that whenever Someone does get plugged into a church right and that this is this is not necessarily a bad thing. Right that as they're under the word and you know, someone is expositing Scripture and teaching and all of this stuff, right that as they're as they're growing up maturing in their faith.

Right that they're gonna kind of they're gonna have that type of bent to them but one thing that that does do is create an echo chamber and so we all kind of end up in this group of oh well, here are the brothers that I pray with that I serve with that I'm Fellowshipping with that are at my local church that I'm plugged in with they're calling me throughout the week.

I'm calling them. And you know a lot of times they're they're at the same church they're very very very like-minded and so you begin in this in this echo chamber and. So then the issues that you're dealing with are issues that everyone in your echo chamber are dealing with to where.

You know someone may not know what's going on in the Anglican world right now someone may not know you know about the local non-denom or the Something going on in the SBC or Because it means nothing to them.

And so really to get outside of your echo chamber is to be confronted with a whole bunch of stuff from everywhere and it it takes. It takes a minute to work through but it's. It's often looked at as very weird in a bunch of mindsets.

It's just as something like oh, well you Talk to these people and those people and those people and it's like yeah. Yeah, I got them confront me on a group chat all the time. It's crazy.

Now I do think it is something to note that biblical unity is Harder than unbiblical unity more often than not. That ecumenical ism is a bit more thoughtless at times because we don't which is it's Unbranded unity, it's just what we have to be together.

But when you start getting the the Baptists and Pentecostals and the Presbyterians together There's a bit of natural pushback. That's a little tricky to work with them and we've kind of navigated a lot of that in the two years I've been here and then we brought in Anglicanism with like Elias and now we got Jeremiah and that's a whole nother hurdle.

Because these are these are people we didn't talk about in VeggieTales. This is not the the brand of Christianity that so many of us know. And so this idea that we can be together is oftentimes very new very novel very unfamiliar.

And so the idea of being unified it's a fight sometimes I Think we've we've we can we can all attest to that to some degree that to be unified is a fight. It is laborious. It is work. This is why there's so much language in the New Testament about striving for unity striving for peace.

So insofar as it depends on you that this is not the default position. This is something we're fighting for. Because the church is beautiful.

So talking real quick on the doctrine of separation there's really only two specific things that we should be willing to divide over and that is first here doctrinal gospel issues if there is another gospel preached as Paul said my angels or charismatic preachers or Whoever else if another gospel is preached then we should separate from them so I think that's number one is is defining the gospel very clearly and.

And then the second thing is over over sin. Like that is how what the Bible describes is sin if a denomination church or group stops defining biblical sin as sin and begins to justify a person's sinful lifestyle as normal versus contrary to God's design.

Then then we don't condone sin. So those are two really clear areas that become very definitive things then after that. You really do have to be like what Tyler said is a striving for and I want to echo what Robert said Jesus Jesus said this that you will know that you're my disciples by how You love one another right and then and so so really the first question we should ask is do we actually love.

Do I love this guy, you know, do I love Dan? Okay, like like when Dan or Elias or whatever we're talking about The Eucharist versus or ordinances versus Sacraments or whatever, you know, like the first question I have to ask.

When my love for you is dependent upon how you answer that's not a good Christian standard my love for you and your love for me is because Christ first loved us and now has commanded us to love one another that we can demonstrate to the world that we're disciples.

So that in even major very important issues if we have disagreement. The world can still look and say wow those guys man. They don't they don't act like they like each other if they saw all of our text feeds all the time, right?

But then at the end of the day, it's like we see each other and it's like a it's like a bear hug you know and we love each other and we care about each other's families and those kind of situations and so that's how we demonstrate unity and so it is.

Not something created but it is an outflow of our love. It is an outflow of The love that's within us and and it's demonstrating that we're truly disciples of Jesus first. And followers of him first and so I think that's that's echoing a little bit of what Robert was trying to say earlier that the Holy Spirit does this and it is biblical unity is Is is definitely a product of labor?

You know, I think it's Poor whenever you you brought up our text thread, right? You see us going into it. You know how many of y 'all have had slugfest with your brothers, you know. The brothers will fight harder than they will people down the road, but the brothers will fight together as well you know.

Because there is that. Because we have already worked through the first step right the the gospel situations right that first level virgin birth Inerrancy of Scripture. The the role of Scripture since we have worked through all of that stuff.

Now.

There there is that we work on the secondary issues and sometimes it it does get ugly. But there is always that that unity that we're striving for.

Why Unity Matters in the Church

Then stay let me pull you here on the second question. And I'm gonna add to it a little bit. It says what is unit? Why is unity important in the body of Christ? And of course the body of Christ is Comprised of Visible Militant invisible local all of all of those things.

Why is unity? important in the body of Christ and Tag to that I mentioned earlier. There's this sense of local church denominational loyalty at the expense of Excluding others not wanting to associate with others, but We can't forget that we we make a covenant Using that language with our local church.

We have a we do have a loyalty to our brothers and sisters. Especially, you know if you're a pastor elder in a church Our local church comes first. You know and then these other ministries are kind of you know on the side our local church comes first.

So there is a sense of loyalty there. So so why is unity important? In the local church and then outside the local church and and how do we How do we lead? Toward that in our churches. I know that was that was a lot.

So just take whatever you want.

For.

Just take whatever you want.

Sure, biblical unity is important because what it does is it shows it shows the glory of God in the salvation of people. What I mean by that is this as God calls us to himself Gives us his life his righteousness takes away our sins.

We become a United with Christ and becoming united with Christ we could become united with one another as well.

The.

Psalm 133 says Behold how very good it is. How good and pleasant it is for brothers to dwell together in unity. And it describes it as an anointing of oil that comes upon the head like Aaron runs down Aaron's beard.

Describes it as the dew of Hermon that comes down from the mountains of Zion. This is this it says for there Yahweh commanded the blessing. And what was that blessing? Life forever. So unity is important because we've all been called to that same mountain called the crop to come together Looking to Christ.

So that's important in the large school. It's also important In your local church especially because that's where you get to see the the rubber meet the road so to speak. So we just had a young guy join our church Two weeks ago he took his his membership vows.

He took vows to to uphold the scriptures to to believe in proper doctrine to accept correction if he needed to and at the same Time we made a commitment to him that if we see him stepping out of line We're gonna come and put our arm around him and say hey, man, that's not the way to go.

The reason why it's so important for us to be Biblically unified in the local churches that is one of them by which God has called us To help each other out to guide each other along the way so that if Myself or somebody else is going through a rough time.

We can be encouraged if we need correction. We've got our brothers that know us and care for us that can do that this thing's for us. So it's it's it's practical, but it also shows The love and care of God that in while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.

So that while my brothers and sisters in the local church are being scoundrels I'm still gonna love them as Christ loved the church. Mm-hmm. I don't know if that answered any or all your questions or or what but that's that's what I got for now.

Fantastic.

If I can add something real quick so because we're on part two right question Why is the unity important in the body of Christ? Yeah one is because of Christ himself commands us to be one body right to be to be unified and I'm looking through the book on prayer real quick The 2019 and there's a prayer actually that says literally for the unity of all Christian people.

For anyone knowing the 2019. The prayer goes like this. I'll just say it quickly Oh God the father of our Lord Jesus Christ our only Savior through the Prince the Prince peace. Give us grace to take heart the grave dangers.

We are in through our many divisions. So he's saying there's many with divisions. There's danger that comes with that deliver your church from all enmity and prejudice and everything that hinders us. From godly Union.

And as there is one body in one spirit one hope of our calling one Lord one faith one baptism one God and of And father of us all so make us all to be of one heart and of one mind United in holy bond of truth and peace of faith and love that with one voice We may give you praise through Jesus Christ our Lord Who lives and reigns with you in the Holy Spirit one God everlasting glory.

Amen so because one the courts commanded but also it's it's who God is right God God is one right and so in perfect unity right the triune God is one in perfect unity as a prayer said with the Holy Spirit and God the Father and so Therefore his church must be one and unified and based on his truth.

Where am I gonna find that in my copy of the book in common prayer?

So I have the 2019 so in the 2019 they have additional prayers. It's it's under for the unity of all Christian people. You might have it under maybe just unity in in certain common prayers. But yeah, so 2019 I find it more easy to navigate through.

I.

May need to go to that. Yes, I'm not Anglican, but I do utilize it from time to time when I'm not pulling out the Psalter, but.

They have plenty of bookmarks in that particular copy. Oh, yeah, it's great.

Anyway, I think one of the mind says that we need to avoid is is this that I Think we all believe whether it be from a post-millennial mindset that it's Gonna happen here on earth or eventually in heaven.

We're gonna be unified in our theology As as we're glorified, but we all believe that the Spirit is leading us to that. But I think the mind said that we we need to avoid and it will be helpful to avoid is that the this idea of And I'm gonna use a term that we I think it's in our circle here.

It's used jokingly, but My denomination is is the superior one. So when the Spirit does unify us everyone will be Baptist or everyone will be a man Anglican or everyone will be Presbyterian Monthly with something good to avoid.

Hey, if if the Spirit leads us to all be Anglican, I need to be open to the Spirit and And say that I'm only human. I We're all going to be Presbyterian or if we're all going to be Baptist That's not for me to determine I want to be one as the Spirit leads us to be one.

Anybody have any thoughts on that and what are some other common barriers that we see among believers to unity? I.

Think what you just hit on was humility.

Being.

Being humble in in even your thought process of Seeing your key theological position. Yeah, every one of us thinks that we are right in Scripture that that this is how Scripture is to be interpreted, but it's having the Humility after learning that you're you know, you're wrong on so many things.

Knowing that I could I could be wrong on on X Y Z and I'm not willing to make this stand Falsely.

Yeah, I I've been wrestling with this for a couple years. And I've changed my House. I'm gonna change my position, but I've changed my outlook. Because I've got a lot of friends. I've got a handful of Lutheran friends.

Which was not something I really had a bit big exposure to growing up. And now I've got a couple Anglicans that I'm conversing with.

So.

Talking to other believers that aren't in your camp like you're very narrow camp. Whatever that is post mill reform Baptist Presbyterian, whatever it is. Talking to believers from other streams that are genuine believers That understand the gospel.

They're not they're not preaching a false gospel. And I'm in another group chat. And there's there's a handful of an Anglicans in a couple Lutherans in there as well. And so after sitting back for a couple years and just observing listening to How they interpret scripture looking at the scriptural justifications that they've used for their their various doctrines and realizing like that's.

That's not I don't agree, but that's not that's not unfair like they're not out of out of bounds In like an orthodoxy sense like they do have a scriptural justification. It's not how I would read that passage, but they have one.

You know what? I mean? It's a secondary issue or a tertiary issue and realizing that they're there. There are genuine believers Who don't believe what you believe and there have been millions of believers that did not believe what you believe.

Going back 2 ,000 years, right like that. That's as much as I think I'm right on Everything that I believe. I'm pretty sure Paul was not if he if Paul came back from from heaven. Today, I don't think he would be a died-in-the-wool reform Baptist.

I think he would have some some opinions that I will be like really that's that's what you that's what you meant. Like I can't think of what they would be. You know what? I mean? Like Doug Wilson has a quote that says I Know I'm not right on everything.

Or so I know I'm wrong on some things, but I don't think I am there's something to that effect. We're like I understand empirically or At the root of the matter there are things that I'm wrong about. I Can't think of what they are.

I couldn't say like I believe this and this is wrong. No one intentionally believes things that they think are incorrect. I've got blind spots. I just don't know where they are. Exactly. Yeah, it's it's having the humility to say Christianity is not my singular understanding of it like there's there's Genuine believers from other camps and we need to be Gracious and humble when dealing with with other Christians.

You know like like Elias for example if you it's a Josh. You want to go hang out with a bunch of Anglicans? Over here, you know this bunch of Anglicans of this, you know little pub over here. You want to go hang out?

I'd like I'd know. Like like I I don't know. But being able to talk to them and hear what they believe and and and see the reasons behind their various doctrines and customs. It helps you get perspective on the faith and and Paul talks a lot about is it in I think he opens Colossians with Commending them for their their faith in Lord Jesus and the love for all the Saints.

Right and all the Saints does not just mean all the Reformed Baptists or all the post-millennials like that. It's all the Saints. And while I think I'm right on all these things. It just because somebody else doesn't agree with me doesn't mean that they're not they're not in the kingdom and we need to be gracious and charitable toward towards other believers.

On those secondary and tertiary issues.

Yeah, one thing that's really important guys and I think Robert I think menu the old guys here tonight wouldn't. Is that a safe assumption.

Don't let the beard give it away.

White in the podcast I looked in the mirror earlier money and look this white until you get on camera, you know, but you know, I've been in full-time ministry for I'm in my 27th year now and. And been a full-time lead pastor for over 20 years now and so.

So when you start Walking through things like that One of the humble things that we all have to agree I Hope that you are not in the same place that you were five years ago theologically and I hope that you will not be in the same place.

You are five years in the future. Theologically that we are all in a journey constantly and and I can remember major Spiritual formation Times in my life and that's one thing that we all love to quote early church fathers.