EP 38 – An Urgent Plea to Pastors BEFORE the Presidential Election, #maga #maca #shepherd

So my encouragement to pastors is talk to your congregations, tell them what's at stake, encourage them to go out and vote. We should have 100 of Christians voting in this election, and pastors need to get out there and tell their congregations.

So this is my plea as a pastor to pastors. Please get your congregations out to vote. Otherwise, America is going to be a very, very, very dark place, not too far down the road.

Yeah, and I'll be the bad cop to Seth's good cop. Seth was just encouraging pastors, but I'll say it in the negative, that if a pastor is unwilling to speak against this level of evil right now, he's not a shepherd.

And it's not too late for you, pastor. If you haven't spoken out against abortion and all this trans agenda and the communism that Kamala is pushing, you're not a shepherd unless you do it. You still have time to do it, but your identity as a pastor is on the line at this point.

And welcome to Tearing Down High Places. My name's Average Joe. Got the pastors all gathered around from around the states and Mount Laurel, New Jersey. So welcome again, Seth Brickley. Where from? Great to be with you guys.

Just north of St. Cray Falls, Wisconsin, just north of St. Cray Falls, Wisconsin. It's great to be with you again. And of course, last week we were together doing the VP debate watch party. But this week we were together again to talk about the upcoming election.

Yeah. Welcome, Jeff.

Welcome, Tim. Tim's traveling, but making it anyway. You want to share your secret?

No, we don't need you to tell anybody. It's okay. Greetings from Martinsburg, Virginia. Or Martinsburg, West Virginia, I should say. West Virginia. Yes, yes. We're listening to Jeff's favorite song, Country Roads, on the way here.

Is that your favorite song, Jeff? When I'm in West Virginia. That's a great song. I did some time in Morgantown. I did a little grad school at WVU. And after every football game, that's what they sing.

And the musketeer shoots his gun. If you like that song, Jeff, I was going to suggest we go to the Mountaineer game. Oh, okay. Yeah, but only if you're there, I guess. So we got some big questions to talk about today.

We're doing a lot about the election. Pastor Jeff has been actively leading the charge over in Pennsylvania, the swing state right next to our church in East Philly, aka Mount Laurel, New Jersey. So we're focusing a lot on that.

Do you guys want to talk about why we're focusing on that?

Yeah, I would just say that all of human history hinges on this moment. And it's almost not an overstatement because secular humanism has so infected the culture that half of the people are buying into it.

And the manifestation of that in all of these areas, the killing of innocent babies by the mutilation of children, the exposing of children to pornography in the library and in the school libraries, the list goes on and on what secular humanism has rocked in our culture.

And to give a champion of secular humanism like Harris the presidency and to give her that opportunity then to bring in Washington, D .C. as another state, to get rid of the filibuster, to open the borders as they have been for the last four years, to flood the country with future voters, we may never have the chance to return to where this country began after this year if we don't win this election.

So I don't know if it's an overstatement or not. I don't think so. We could be plunging right into the tribulation. And this is just the birth pangs. The one world government is just on the precipice.

Maybe it's supposed to take over and we can't stop it. But for our part, when Christ comes, will He find faith on earth? We need to occupy until He comes. We need to be battling and fighting because who knows, maybe for such a time as this, we are here and the Lord will give us a revival and our kids and grandkids and maybe great-grandkids, we don't know, will grow up in a Christian culture.

This is the moment as we approach the 250-year anniversary of this country. This country will depart completely into apostasy or there will be a revival. It's either or at this point. So that's why we're talking so much about it.

Yeah. How big a problem is it that both parties right now are only talking about abortion and the Republicans have backpedaled from that? And the other side's kind of pretending like they can get along with us.

It's not a big deal. You know, the Democrats are like, oh, yeah, we're going to…. Kamala's out there talking about cutting taxes. I don't see that happening.

What do you guys think? Yeah, they're going to say whatever they need to say to win and you can't believe a word that Kamala Harris, her campaign is saying because like Jeff said, I mean, we are on the brink of losing our nation forever.

This nation, by the way, that was founded on biblical Christianity. When people ask the question, what made America great? The answer is it's biblical Christianity. And the founders understood this. They understood that the Republic would only succeed if Christianity was the focal point of the nation.

So we as Christians, we as pastors, we have a responsibility to speak to these issues. We need to love our neighbor in the public square. That's the second greatest commandment. And by standing down and not doing anything here, by letting the Harris campaign win, we would be hating our neighbor and we would be giving up the opportunity for our children to grow up in a land of freedom and grandchildren if Christ's return delays.

So we always say this is the most important election of our lifetime, but this one truly is. I mean, it is so important that Christians get out and vote and make a difference. And Joe, maybe we can talk about what would a country where Kamala Harris and the Democratic Party, what would a country look like when they get complete control?

Yeah, I was going to jump to that or either the other question in regards to that. What does that look like, Jeff?

Proverbs 1434. Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a reproach to any people. It's not just a matter of how much money this country has or how the population, how educated we are. If we reject God and continue down this path of just godlessness and unrighteousness, then that sin in this culture will be a reproach to us and the country will fall under that kind of discipline and judgment from God.

So righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a reproach to any people.

Is it possible for us to live in two separate worlds here as Christians with this, dare I say, demonic government?

Is it like are you talking about like coexist and everything can just be fine?

Yeah, because I feel like the theme today is addressing those pastors who are not speaking out about the the evil that's in front of us, the devastation that the Democratic Party has included in their platform and the fact that they are no longer pretending to be able to get along with a Christian culture.

They are attacking the Christian culture and they have stated that they want to outlaw parts of the Bible, maybe not all of it, but they've started with some. And I'd be really curious. I mean, we talked about the Equality Act and I don't want to bore our audience with the Equality Act anymore, but what happens after they get that passed?

What's the next thing they go after in the Bible?

What do you think? Yeah, well, Joe, what we're seeing is they believe that they are God, right? They don't believe that the government, they don't believe that God is God. They believe that the government is God.

And I spoke at an event last week with where U .S. Senator Ron Johnson also spoke. He's our Wisconsin Senator, and he's really on the front lines in Washington of fighting these things. And as he's fighting these things, he sees what's going on.

He sees the inner workings. And what he said was, he said that they hate America and they want a one world government. Okay, what does that sound like? Well, that sounds like Revelation 13. That sounds like the Antichrist taking his throne.

So literally, we are standing here in 2024 and ending in the way of this beast system that is trying to set up before our eyes. And how sad it would be if we don't even talk about this with our people as pastors and fellow Christians.

We have a tremendous responsibility to speak out against what's going on and say, we need to do whatever we can to stop this evil and to have righteousness prevail in this land. I just heard recently that Tim Walz, of course, last week we did the Tim Walz VP Watch Party.

Tim Walz, under this bill that was passed, that if there's a botched abortion, the baby would be left to die. Eight babies in Minnesota have died already because of that. Think about that.

Heartbreaking. I think that's such an important point because I don't think people understand what is being spoken about when Republicans try to squeeze that into a tiny sound clip. Right? I think that needs to really be expanded upon and talked about.

And I think when it's squeezed into that little sound clip, certain media outlets are able to distort the truth. Any thoughts?

How about you, Tim? Jump in. Oh, man. I think what Seth was saying is really on point. We need to be fighting and you can't just sit back and watch the country get destroyed. And honestly, I feel like my fear is that it's just going to go so downhill that our children and our grandchildren are not going to be able to enjoy what we enjoyed, what our parents enjoyed, what our grandparents enjoyed, what our great grandparents enjoyed, because they are asking for evil to be in charge of the country.

And they're proud and they're happy about it. And they're going to realize that that was a huge mistake when it's way too late. So I think that the best thing we can do by loving our neighbor is telling them, no, we need to vote for Trump, not because we think he's the greatest guy in the world, but because Kamala Harris will destroy the country.

And I think other countries can probably take advantage of a vulnerable state our country would be in as having that woman running it. So for me, I think what drives me is I believe in the Bible and I believe in God and I want other people to believe all of those things.

But I also am looking to the next generation of people and I want to try and teach them the right things because what happens once the generation of pastors is gone? And then we need to really start raising up new young people to be able to decipher the times.

And even politically, I think we should be talking about it a lot more. People hate talking about politics and religion, but it's the two most important things we need to talk about.

Tim, I love what you say about, I mean, you're basically saying, you know, you're worried about the next generation being able to enjoy the blessings that we've had. And I feel like there's some great pastors out there that are, well, I don't feel like anything.

I ought to stop saying that. That's because of the air I swim in that I say that too much. But I believe that it's true that there are great pastors out there saying, well, you know, the next generation is going to have an opportunity to suffer more.

And that's always good for Christianity. Is that our role to allow that to happen? No.

It's so ignorant of history because where the political structure and system becomes oppressive, it actually decreases the number of believers. They say that, you know, martyrdom is the seedbed of the church.

And in the first three centuries of the church, you did have a lot of persecution. And oftentimes it came from, at first, the Jewish synagogue against the believer, and then later the Roman Empire. And yet Christianity grew.

But have we not had 2 ,000 years of church history to see where different government structures have been tried? All you have to do is look at the difference between North Korea and South Korea, where freedom and capitalism were preserved in the South and where oppressive, authoritarian government, overtook the North.

And the difference is 50 million believers, 500 ,000. And so Christianity does not thrive under communism and authoritarian government. And so we don't allow that to overtake America. It's not even the result that has happened through history.

So that wouldn't, Jeff, are you saying that, like, you can't vote for Kamala Harris with a clean conscience if that's your goal? You have to have some other reason to vote for Kamala. Right.

Well, and it's just... What could that reason be? Is there a good reason? Is there any reason? It's not, but here's the irony. Like, everybody seems to acknowledge, even great church pastors acknowledge, that the abortion issue is on the side of the Bible and the truth and conservative Christianity.

But they say, but you have to show love to the immigrant. And you have to show love to the poor. And they are just assuming that the Democratic Party is not hating the poor and hating immigrants by encouraging illegal immigration, which leads to so many deaths, so much human trafficking, so much fentanyl coming over the border.

What they're doing for the immigrants, so-called, is actually hating the immigrant. And the poor, with all these social programs and social engineering handouts from Uncle Sam, is actually hurting the poor.

If you read the book, White Guilt, by someone who was, Shelby Steele was his name, the Hoover Institute. He traces the government handout programs to the destruction of the inner city. And he talks about how incentivizing the breakdown of family, where the government becomes the father in the home, and single parent homes are encouraged by government incentive handouts.

This is what caused the poverty of the inner city. It was these very handouts. So it's not loving the poor to give more and more government money to the poor. That's, in fact, what's caused so much of the problem.

And it exacerbates the problem to the degree that you keep doing it.

Yeah, yeah. And there's two groups of people here that we have a problem with. One group is they're actually gonna vote for Kamala Harris. And that is the David Frenches, the Russell Moores, the Ray Ortlund.

Ray Ortlund just came out a week or two ago saying that he's gonna vote for Harris. And then on the other end, you have pastors who won't say anything about the election. It'll pretend like there's nothing going on.

They'll just preach their sermon that Sunday before the election. And so my plea is more towards that group. I feel like the Russell Moores of the world, the David Frenches, they're evangelicals for Harris.

And I came up with a better term for that. That is wolves for Harris. I mean, they're just showing who they are. If you love Christ, you're gonna love what He loves. And their whole platform is pagan ethics.

So they're showing where their values are. They have worldly values. Okay, so they're not evangelicals for Harris. They're wolves for Harris. But on the other end, you have great pastors. You know, a lot of these guys, I would say they're brothers in Christ.

They do a lot of good things. And my plea is to them is to understand where we are at, this place that we are at. Communism is patient. China either has to invade a land or they infiltrate it from within, right?

So what's happened in America for a very long time is that through the universities, through the media, through politicians being paid off, they have infiltrated institutions. And now Ron Johnson, who I heard last week, he even said this.

These Marxists, these communists have infiltrated the church, right? So that's where you have people like Russell Moore who infiltrated the ERLC of the Southern Baptist Convention when he led that organization, the ERLC.

Now here's something that's very interesting, guys. Tim Keller, of course, he passed away a year or two ago. Trevor Loudon is an expert on communism. Have you guys heard of Trevor Loudon? No. So Trevor Loudon actually just released a 700-page book.

It's the most extensive research on Kamala Harris there is to show her communistic roots. Okay? And what Senator Johnson said one week ago is that he said that communism has infiltrated the church. And Ron Johnson's not even coming from this as a guy who's this strong, born-again Christian.

He just sees it from a, you know, from a governmental side of things because he's in the government. But here's what Trevor Loudon said about Tim Keller. Trevor Loudon is not even a born-again Christian.

Now he might be getting close to that, and let's pray that he does become a Christian. But Trevor Loudon, as a student of communism, as one who studies communism, he knew who Tim Keller was, even without knowing the inner workings of Christianity like we do as pastors.

He knew who Tim Keller was because of Keller's communistic influence on the American church. Think about how alarming that is. So we as pastors, we have to have discernment to see what's going on here.

The devil has used certain men to infiltrate the church with a movement that doesn't view God as God, but views the government as God. And it's evil. It's satanic. There it is.

Trevor Loudon. There it is. Thank you. Kamala Harris's communist roots. Yep. So Seth, I got a question for Seth. So Seth, say you weren't a pastor, right? Or you went to visit somewhere, or you're just an average churchgoer, and you go into a church, and you're there for a year, and especially like heading up to the election, and the pastor never said anything about politics.

As a churchgoer, what would your move be?

Okay, so the election comes and goes, and you didn't make one mention of it. And this is, by the way, we're talking about gray. Some people might not understand what we're talking about here. So Jeff Cleaver wrote a book, Blood Red Church.

And it's really targeted, and Jeff, you can speak to this, but the blue church is the liberal social activist church, right? Let's have these Democratic candidates come and preach about how they've been oppressed their whole life, right?

And then you have the red church, which is they've been influenced by the ethics of the Bible. And as those who've been redeemed by the blood of Christ, we are making a difference in the public square for Christ's sake, right?

And then you have the gray church, which is they're silent. They don't really talk about politics, or even they've even compromised a little bit. Is that accurate, Jeff? Is that accurate?

Absolutely. Yeah, and usually the point of compromise has to do with issues of race, because they've taken on the diversity, equity, inclusion mantra around the issue of race. So they might at least claim to be strong on abortion, although you don't really ever hear them talk about the problem of abortion.

They keep that out of the pulpit. But they do much with diversity, and then immigration tends to be a bit leftist. So it's great because it's the blue and the red just mixed together in an ungodly mixture.

Yeah, so to answer Tim's question, though, you're pretty much saying they go to a gray church.

Yeah, I would say they're going to a gray church, yeah. They're going to a gray church. How do you deal with the gray pastor if you're in the congregation?

Yeah, I think a layman in that congregation should go to the pastor after the election and say, You know what? We had this great opportunity before us, even if Trump wins. But I'm really concerned that we didn't do our part.

I mean, we as a church, you should have said something to encourage us to get out and vote, to vote for righteousness, and you didn't. And I would say, depending on his response, he might say, No, we don't do that in this church.

I would say find a different church at that point. But I think give your pastor an opportunity to explain himself because this is such a lie out there. It is the lie of pietism. We don't get involved in this.

You're not going to find that in the Bible. We talk about these biblical John the Baptist, the Apostle Paul, Jesus. I mean, they're calling out the governing authorities. They're holding them accountable.

It's in the Bible, but there's this false conventional wisdom that's out there that, Oh, no, we don't. You know, we stay in our lane. We don't go there. And a lot of pastors listen to that. And guess what?

It's Big Eva. It's this poisonous machine we call Big Eva that we talked about in a previous podcast. That's the lie that's out there. We don't want Big Eva pastors, right? Christians should not want a Big Eva pastor who bows the knee to Big Eva.

We bow the knee to Christ. We listen to his word. And if you have a pastor who doesn't have enough courage to actually and enough moral conviction to actually address these things, I would say find a church.

Be willing to drive 30 miles if you need to, as inconvenient as that is. But to be with a shepherd who's doing his job is far much better than to be with a shepherd who is committing a dereliction of duty.

Is it as simple as a dereliction of duty? I mean, do they actually know what to do? Are they ignorant? Who is influencing them?

I think they're probably influenced maybe by the church themselves. And I think it becomes this model as the church is shepherding the pastor and what to say, when the pastor should be shepherding the flock on how to grow in Christ.

So I think it's almost fear for I got to give the people what they want to hear or don't say what they don't want to hear. So maybe they're like, oh, politics is a touchy subject for people in my church.

I'm not going to go there because people will leave or they bought. That's a good way to say it. They might have bought the lie of this false wisdom. That's not wisdom. It's foolish to say, you know, never talk about this.

Yeah.

Jeff, I think it's so important that you reshare what you said in the past about certain groups. And I think you should name those groups that are teaching pastors to deceive their flock and not let them know where they stand politically.

And I think that is sin that needs to be repented of by these great pastors.

Yeah. And some of them have gone beyond like the David French and Curtis Chang and Russell Moore. They've gone beyond the just be silent and neutral position to saying, well, you should talk about it.

So an example of that would be Bill Rydell down in Washington, D .C., an evangelical free church. He talks. He has a talk called Politics and Our Christian Witness. And he actually says the same thing that we do about pietism.

He says, you know, you can't just not talk about politics. The trouble is when he weighs in, he falls on the left side of the aisle. So he pushes people to minimize abortion and to see other things as pro-life issues.

And he gives credence to that argument.

So he just really believes in communism. Why doesn't he come out and say, I love communism. I think communism fulfills scripture. Why does he say that?

But the same reason Kamala Harris doesn't come out and say it.

I mean, it's not a Christian, though. I'm talking about these pastors.

If you come out and say it, you know, I mean, a lot of these guys are wolves. If you come out and say it, you're not going to deceive anybody because you have to consider this. Why is it that this political party, the Democratic Party, which is further from biblical Christianity than any other political movement, any other political party in the history of our country.

Why is it that there's an increasing number of evangelicals going in this direction? And the answer is social justice. This is how Satan gets people. He preys on people's emotions.

Seth, what I hear you saying is because they don't have the truth, they know better than to come out into the light and try and defend it. Is that what you're saying?

Yeah, they're deceivers. What they're doing is, yeah, they know the truth. And they've been deceived themselves into thinking somehow government handouts and social justice and, you know, showing compassion in these areas.

This is how Satan works. He goes after emotions. Like, oh, nobody wants to be called a racist. Nobody wants to be called a bigot. Nobody wants to be called a homophobe or transphobic or xenophobic. Nobody wants to be called any of these things.

So it's like, oh, these are political issues. And somehow they find a verse to try to make it fit. But Satan is a master deceiver. That's how he gets into churches. And we're calling it out.

Yeah, go ahead, Jeff. Yeah, I wanted to share. I don't think it's so simple as to say Bill Rydell is a communist. Right? That's the issue. It's that they're so devoted to this idea of social justice that they're willing to tolerate differences over moral questions.

So I sat down with another pastor in the EFCA whose name is Joe Hensler. And we had a long talk. And it seemed to be a very agreeable conversation until afterwards he cast it as being a horrible thing.

Because we spoke for like three hours. He thanked me for it. It was all great until it wasn't. But the point is he described himself as a libertarian. And he really got his hackles up when I said that a Christian cannot vote for a Democrat.

Because what he understood that that would mean is that he would have to call it sin to vote for a Democrat. And this would be so divisive in his church. And it would be especially divisive along the racial ethnic identity lines.

So you just can't ignore the fact that in the African American churches the turnout for the vote when you do the polling is something like 90 voting for Democrats. Well, to call that sin, they identify that as racism.

So this race issue is at the center of it. But it's really because many people have been led to believe that it's okay to vote for Democrats. And they're upholding that in the name of social justice. So for these guys, a libertarian like this Joe Hensler, he doesn't like government involved in anything.

He's not wanting government to take over and give handouts. But this commitment to racial diversity in his church precludes him from telling the truth about how serious it is to vote for an abortionist.

And that's really the dividing line, I think. It's the issue of social justice and their commitment to diversity and looking at people by the color of their skin rather than speaking about these moral issues.

Have you shared with that pastor, Jeff, about how abortion is part of the destruction of the family and the destruction which is coming in from communism? Do you go down that path with him? Yeah.

And this particular pastor, his name is Joe Hensler, big church up in Allentown. He would surely agree that abortion is wrong. And he personally hates it. It's more of a matter of how outspoken he would be against it.

And whether he would make the connections to whether it's a communist agenda behind it. What do you mean by that, Joe?

So, I mean, the late 1800s, communism was alive and kicking over there in Europe. And they sent people over here. And that's when we started getting feminism and homosexuality and all these wicked things hitting our...

And it was all designed. It was all part of the Enlightenment philosophies that hit us up with Hegel and Kant and anything you want coming out of your mind. It's part of making the government God. In order to make government God, you have to destroy the things he set in the foundation.

I think of a sermon you did two weeks ago when you established the four governing bodies created by God. One of them being the family and one of them being government. The other being church and the self.

Great sermon, by the way. The self is the one I always forget about, too. Yeah.

We should be putting most of our effort on self-government. We sure should. That's not the topic today.

But you're 100%. In order to get people to love the government, they have to hate God. That's what communism is. In order to absorb all that power, you've got to take what's keeping people being self-responsible and being self-governed.

It's only their trusting God that gives them the ability to trust or love their neighbor. Enough to give them self-governance. Otherwise, you want to control them. Put a mask on them.

Shut them down. Lock them in their house. What people don't understand is that in America, Christianity used to be the most powerful force in America. And then over the last 30, 40, 50 years, there's kind of been this transition.

It's kind of a neutrality that we've lived in. And I think a lot of pastors who grew up in that environment think that it's just going to stay that way. That's just the way things are. But eventually what happens is that when you move away from Christianity, some other ethic is going to replace that.

And so that's what we're seeing. We've seen this flood of... And they're not tolerant of Christianity. They see Christianity as the enemy. So we're moving... And some people... Others have talked about this.

We once lived in a positive world where society was positive toward Christianity. Then it's a neutral world where it's like, OK, well, we're not going to persecute them. But there's some pagan ethics in there.

And then now we're moving towards negative where Christianity is going to be persecuted.

They're all a bunch of lying worldview squatters. Yeah. Stealing our blessings. You guys ever heard of J. Warner Wallace? He's an apologist. He has this book where he looks at all the evidences for the blessings of Christ outside of the Bible.

Because if you want to talk to an atheist, that's where they want to go, right? So let's appease them. Let's take a look at history. And he looks at 0 AD. What happened there? Oh, we had to rename everything.

The whole clock and time because of one guy. And then he's got this thing where he goes to this timeline and then all of a sudden all these inventions that cause blessing in culture and society just go straight up.

But we can't look at that and say, thank you, Jesus. All we've got to do is go,.

I want more. And there's another book by Wayne Grudem called The Poverty of Nations where he traces the degree to which the Reformation took root and where those innovations come from. Notice the Industrial Revolution comes from England and from the British Empire largely and then to a slightly lesser degree France and the Scandinavian countries and then ultimately the United States of America.

It's where the Protestant Reformation took root that the blessing and the powerful economic engine of capitalism really came from.

Communism doesn't build anything. They steal what's already been built. So Christianity made this country great and now they're trying to hijack this great country of ours. How about we, if you guys are okay with this, let's say Kamala Harris wins this election and let's say that she wins the House and she wins the Senate and then the Supreme Court they get the Supreme Court down the road.

Because they pack it. They would pack it if they had the ability to do that. Let's imagine together.

What will America look like if this happens. And you guys can jump into it. Maybe I'll start off. You mentioned the Equality Act, Joe. Joe, explain the Equality Act. You seem to know it pretty well.

2021 the Democrat led House of Representatives passed a resolution that would have gone to the Senate and then it would have been signed by a President had not the Republican led Senate blocked it just barely because they don't have unity when it comes to these kind of packages either.

We got a lot of Republicans that vote along the line of Democrats on these issues because they are globalists. And globalism requires one world religion. And that is what they want. They want a unified religion across the planet.

If you translate that into Newspeak it's the end of the freedom of thought. Atheism has benefited greatly from Christian rule. Christians being in charge meant that we valued freedom of thought freedom of belief because why?

Because God gives us freedom of thought and freedom of belief. So we value that enough to put it into our government. They want that gone. And they want their own thought process. They want their own blasphemy laws.

They want their own ways of controlling everything. And the Equality Act is dare I say the cornerstone to that.

Desire to build on that. So it's basically an anti-discrimination you can't discriminate against.

Gays and transgenders also hiring practices you would have to hire a specific undercover thing that it does that tears down. Christianity. Orthodox Christianity anyway is the elimination of pastors to be able to counsel people who struggle with homosexual thoughts.

They've already done this with professional psychologists because of course they would volunteer for that anyway. But when a young Christian person comes into one of your offices you're no longer going to be able to open the book the Bible and say God's word says this and help them with their sinful struggles because one you're not going to be allowed to call it sin.

And then if you preach from those same verses what they call the clobber verses there's plenty of them as we all know. If you preach from that you could be shut down. Find her jailed for speaking out against these things.

I gotta say jailed. I don't think they put penalties into it specifically.

So think about that. The Democratic leadership they want this. And not only that in 2023 in January of 2023 the House Democrats the same House Democrats voted almost unanimously to in the case of a botched abortion just like we talked about Tim Walz in Minnesota that the baby would be left to die.

Almost unanimously they voted for that. This is the same group voting for these same.

Things. Well you asked a great question about the exact penalties which we don't know because those are all run by bureaucratic processes that happen after our so called representatives represent us and vote in these things or vote them out and those bureaucracies can do whatever they want.

So that's why there's a bill in front of the Supreme Court and they potentially could change that which would be wonderful but right now and that's something that the Republicans all love the bureaucracy too.

They just want to love it a little bit less so they can get elected. But this whole bureaucratic system where we don't really have representation. We saw that in Mount Laurel recently. We went to the library.