December 15, 2017 Show with Stephen Nichols, Tom Ascol, & Ray Rhodes with “In Loving Memory of the Late Dr. R. C. Sproul (Feb.13, 1939 – Dec.14, 2017)”

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Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century Gospel Minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, We are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with, and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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Now here's our host, Chris Arntzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth, who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this 15th day of December 2017.

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And today is a sad day for many of us. Many of us are just learning today about the passing into glory of Dr.

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R .C. Sproul, born February 13th, 1939, and going home to glory

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December 14th, 2017. We will forever be connected in that I was born the day after that, not the date of course, but I was born

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February 14th in 1962, and my dear precious wife,

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Julie, entered into eternity with Christ on December 15th, 2011.

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And today is her anniversary of going home to be with the

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Lord for all eternity. And so it's a sad day for me, and I know many of you are very sad to hear the shocking news that Dr.

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Sproul went home to heaven yesterday sometime in the afternoon. But of course, not even those who love him most and knew him best are grieving as those who grieve with no hope.

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Dr. Sproul is certainly in paradise with Jesus Christ as we speak, and not missing this planet for a moment.

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We are going to be paying tribute to Dr. R .C. Sproul today. First, I'm going to be playing an interview

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I conducted with Dr. Sproul some time ago on the old Iron Sharpens Iron radio program.

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This was such a joy to have the opportunity to interview Dr. Sproul on Wednesday, May 19th, 2010, and to receive the glowing commendation for my radio program not long after that he wrote was absolutely mind -blowing.

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It's a commendation that I will forever cherish and treasure, obviously. It is a commendation that I have had on my

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Facebook masthead ever since I had a Facebook page, and it's also featured among many other commendations on my

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Iron Sharpens Iron radio website. But before we have our two special guests today, who will also be paying tribute to Dr.

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Sproul, the first being Tom Askell, who is pastor of Grace Baptist Church of Cape Coral, Florida, and also the president of Founders Ministries, which is a

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Reformed Baptist ministry within the Southern Baptist Convention. And then following that, we will have

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Dr. Stephen J. Nichols, who is the chief academic officer at Ligonier Ministries, the ministry founded by R .C.

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Sproul. And he's also president of Reformation Bible College. He is also going to be paying tribute to his dear friend,

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Dr. Sproul, later on in the program. But without further ado, here is a voice that I know many of you have grown accustomed to love and grown accustomed to be edified and educated and blessed by.

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Here is my interview from 2010 with Dr. R .C.

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Sproul. Good evening, Long Island, New York, Connecticut, and those listening internationally over the

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Internet. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 19th day of May, 2010.

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I am so honored and privileged and thrilled tonight because for the very first time, I have as a guest on this program

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Dr. R .C. Sproul, a founder and chairman of Ligonier Ministries. And tonight we are going to discuss a very provocative theme,

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Tough Questions Christians Face. And that is the theme of the Ligonier Ministries 2010

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National Conference. And we're also going to be announcing the new college at Ligonier Academy of Biblical and Theological Studies.

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And it is my honor and privilege to welcome you to Iron Sharpens Iron for the very first time, Dr. R .C. Sproul. Thank you,

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Chris. It's good to be with you. And before we even get into the theme of the conference, and also the new college at Ligonier Academy of Biblical and Theological Studies, when exactly did you found

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Ligonier Ministries? I understand it started in the Pittsburgh area of Pennsylvania. Well, it's about 50 miles east of Pittsburgh in the

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Ligonier Valley. And we found it in 1971. 1971.

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And I'd be shocked if anybody listening to my program wasn't familiar with Ligonier Ministries.

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But give a brief description for our listeners who are hearing about it for the first time. Well, Ligonier Ministries began as a teaching mission that was particularly designed to train

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Christian workers who had college educations but did not have the inclination or opportunity to go to seminary.

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People like staff members of InterVarsity, Coalition for Christian Outreach, Young Life, and groups of that ilk.

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And, of course, we also had a lay ministry to churches, and pastors would bring their churches for weekend seminars.

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And we had a resident student program that was very similar to what happened at LaBrie.

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Francis Schaefer was a friend of mine, and he helped coordinate the founding of Ligonier Ministries by giving us a lot of sound wisdom and so on.

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And the ministry expanded largely through audio and video and my books.

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And after 13 years in western Pennsylvania, the board wanted to get out of the campus ministry and to focus on the

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AV outreach ministry. And so since most of our constituents lived in the southeastern part of the

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United States, we relocated our headquarters in Orlando. And we've been involved in conferencing and radio outreach and audio and video educational materials and the publication of Table Talk Magazine and the publishing arm of the ministry, which is

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Reformation Trust, just to name a few of the things that we're doing. Well, Dr. Sproul, you are well -known as being one of the most gifted spokespersons for the

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Reformed faith or Calvinism. I do want you to know that the gentleman who is supposed to be my co -host tonight,

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Daniel Buttafuoco, who is an attorney and also the founder of the Historical Bible Society, regretted that he could not be here because he had a trial that he had to be involved in.

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But he wanted to thank you for your book, Grace Unknown, The Heart of Reformed Theology.

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I gave that to Dan back in about 1997. Dan was an

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Arminian Christian, still is, an elder in an Assemblies of God congregation. I gave that to him for Christmas back in 1997,

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I believe it was. And on New Year's Day, he called me up in the morning and said,

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I have not been asleep since two days ago. I've been reading this book that you gave me by R .C.

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Sproul. I believe every word. I am now Reformed. And it's amazing how

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I meet folks who have been led to these glorious doctrines of Sovereign Grace through your ministry.

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In fact, the second half of tonight's broadcast, we have Ken Jones. I'm sure you are familiar with Ken.

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I know Ken very well, Sean. Yes, and he is one of the panel members of the White Horse.

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I interviewed every co -author, including Ken, of the book

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Glory Road, The Journeys of Ten African Americans into Reformed Christianity. Every one of them on this program mentioned you as having a profound effect on their life.

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Well, that's really wonderful to hear that. That's somewhat overwhelming.

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I'm sorry that Dan couldn't be with us tonight, too. We could have had some sharpening from his iron.

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Sure. Well, this is one of the... I'm not just saying this because you're my guest tonight.

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This is one of the most provocative themes for a conference and one of the best rosters

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I've ever seen at a conference, especially because each of these subtitles of your conference,

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Tough Questions Christians Face, each one could be a conference in and of itself. We have, Why Did Jesus Have to Die?

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John MacArthur. Is the Doctrine of Inerrancy Defensible? Michael Horton. Does the

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Doctrine of Divine Decrees Eliminate the Reality of the Human Will? Another one by John MacArthur.

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What is Evil and Where Did It Come From? Dr. R .C. Sproul. Why Do Christians Still Sin?

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R .C. Sproul, Jr. How Do We Know Which Interpretation Is Right? Derek Thomas. Is the

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Bible Just Another Book? Stephen Lawson. Is the Exclusivity of Christ Unjust? Alistair Begg.

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Why Does the Universe Look So Old? Al Mohler. Is Calvinism Good for the

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Church? Burke Parsons. If God is Good, How Could He Command Holy War?

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Derek Thomas. And Can We Enjoy Heaven Knowing of Loved Ones in Hell?

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R .C. Sproul. I have interviewed all of these men that you have at this conference, with the exception of two that I'm eagerly awaiting to interview,

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Alistair Begg and Al Mohler. But what a lineup of speakers and titles.

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Yeah, we're very excited about this lineup. It's really an exquisite lineup. In fact, it also included at one point

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John Piper, and then he had to take sabbatical, and so we had to replace him.

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But we're sorry that he won't be able to be with us. But this is just an incredible group of speakers that will be at that conference.

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And I think, as you said, a very provocative focus for the conference to address these issues that are very difficult and that cause a lot of people a small amount of anxiety as they struggle with them.

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We do have a caller on the line from Texas listening on the Internet. If you could give us your first name and the city that you're calling from in Texas.

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Hi, yes, this is Tony in Irving, Texas. Great. Now, Tony, if you could take the answer to your question off of the

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Internet, because we want to leave room for other callers. Okay, very good. Well, first, hi,

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Dr. Sproul, and I would like to thank you first for your teaching ministry on the radio. I've benefited also greatly from it as a

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Calvinist here in the Dallas area. And also, thanks for sharing your time to interact with us on this radio program.

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My question for you concerns the well -meant nature of the gospel offer, since this is also one of the tough issues that Christians face.

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There is a small but increasing group of Calvinists who think that there is no willingness or desire or wish on the part of God and has revealed will for the salvation of a non -elect or the reprobate.

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Would you say that you agree with such men as Prosper, Ercinus, Edwards, John Murray, Ian Murray, and J .I.

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Packard, just to name a few, who believe that there is a genuine wish or desire on the part of God for the salvation of all men?

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And would you say that God's gospel offer is indeed well -meant? Yes, the question of the integrity of the universal offer of the gospels is one that the

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Reformed people, and you mentioned the panoply of scholars who have addressed this issue over the years.

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I will hold the traditional view that's expressed by Ercinus and later by John Murray and others, that there is a genuine offer of the gospel that is related to God's generally gracious disposition to all who are fallen, with certain qualifications.

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Keep in mind that the gospel is not offered indiscriminately in the sense that it's offered to anybody.

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It's offered to anybody who believes. And so, in a very real sense, that restricts it.

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I mean, that should go without saying that what we call the universal offer of the gospel is contingent upon a response of faith.

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And the reason I put that little quibble in there, Tony, is that we are hearing more and more from preachers in the media who are announcing that God loves everybody unconditionally.

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And that sort of leaves the impression that people don't have to do anything in order to be redeemed, including repent and believe.

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If God loves me unconditionally, without any conditions, then it's like Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood.

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He loves me exactly and precisely just as I am. And that's very dangerously misleading.

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And so, yes, I believe that the gospel is offered to all who believe.

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Now, again, somebody's going to say, but isn't it true that only the elect will believe?

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I said, yes, that would be true. But nevertheless, it's offered to anyone who does, in fact, believe and trust in it.

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Well, do you believe, jumping off on that question, do you believe that the gospel, the preaching of the gospel, even when the unelect hear it, that it has benefit in their lives?

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Obviously, it will not have an eternal benefit. But do you believe that it does have a benefit in the life of the nonelect when he hears the gospel?

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Yes and no. It's kind of a double jeopardy there.

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The benefit is every time the gospel is preached, even if people don't submit to it, it has a restraining impact on them, which will reduce to some degree the wickedness that they engage in in this life.

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The downside is that everyone who hears the gospel and rejects it now acquires a new and very serious negative judgment from God, because to reject the gospel is to insult the

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Son of God and the Father who sent him into this world.

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In that sense, ultimately, all the benefits that we receive from God in this world at the last judgment, if you're an unbeliever, become tragedies, just in contrast to the teaching that all the so -called tragedies that believers experience in this world, since they work together for good through God's sovereign purpose, end up as blessings.

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Now, I don't want to offend any of my listeners unnecessarily, but isn't it true that if you are professing to be a

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Christian and you profess to believe in the inerrancy of the scriptures, that if you say

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God loves everybody unconditionally, you must be therefore a full -blown universalist because there could not possibly be a hell with inhabitants in it, if that was true?

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I don't agree with that. I think it is an implicit universalism, though those who say that,

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I think for the most part, don't really take it to that conclusion. They seem to live in what we call a happy, felicitous contradiction.

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A happy and felicity, or I'm sorry, but an irrational felicity.

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I just want to repeat our number, it's 631 -482 -8300, 631 -482 -8300.

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One of the themes that you're speaking on, what is evil and where did it come from, that's one of the questions that amaze and baffle a lot of folks.

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This is a question also that perhaps those that reject the doctrines of sovereign grace, the doctrines of God's sovereignty in election and predestination, will immediately throw at us as a tough question.

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And as you said, this conference is about tough questions Christians face. But if you could obviously give us an abbreviated answer because this is a whole lecture you're giving at the conference.

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Yes, and most of what I'll be doing at the conference is giving sort of a historical reconnaissance over how the great scholars of church history have struggled with the question of the origin of evil and basically come to the conclusion that we don't have an adequate answer to that question.

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So even whether you're a Calvinist or not a Calvinist, it doesn't matter as far as answering the ultimate problematic question of the entrance of evil into the world.

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That's a problem for theism, whether reformed or unreformed. Although, one of the things by which we take comfort as reformed

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Christians is that we know that evil could not have entered the world or be in the world if God in some way did not purpose that it be here.

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Because if you believe in God and that he is sovereign over all things, and every

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Arminian would admit to that and confess their belief that God is sovereign over everything.

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If God is sovereign over history and over the creation, then obviously his sovereign power and authority extends over evil itself.

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And don't get me wrong, it's a sin to say that evil is good or that good is evil.

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But at the same time, since God is God and God is sovereign and evil exists, we cannot resist the necessary conclusion that in some sense, listen carefully, it's good that evil exists or God would not tolerate it.

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Now, that does not mean again that evil is good or that good is evil, but rather I'm saying that even though evil is evil,

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God works his purposes through and in that present as he is sovereign over.

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You see that in the case of Joseph, and you see it most dramatically in the purposes that God works for the redemption of his people through the unbelievable wickedness of Judas and all of those who were involved in the execution of Jesus.

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Yes, and as that classic text from Scripture, Romans 8, 28, teaches that all things work together for the good for those who love

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God and are the called according to his purpose. It doesn't say all things are good. That's right. We do have another listener on the line.

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We have Bob in White Plains, New York. Welcome to Iron Sherpins Iron, Bob. Hello, Chris, and hello,

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Dr. Sproul. How are you guys? Just fine, Bob. It's good to hear from you. Hey, I just want to say, Dr.

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Sproul, God bless you so much in your ministry at Ligonier, because I have to say that I'm well fed every morning by your program,

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Renewing Your Mind on WNCA Radio. I'm so glad to hear that as well. Hey, I just want to know,

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I also want to say that I admire your son, R .C. Jr., and his book,

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Believing God, was a tremendous blessing to me. That is a great book, isn't it? I love that book. I had everybody on our board.

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I gave a copy of everybody on the board of Ligonier's that book. I was ministered to by that book.

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It's a great thing. Thanks for saying that. I also started reading Grace Unknown as well.

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Somebody introduced me to that book. Did I mention earlier that they've redone that book, and the new title is What is

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Reformed Theology? Oh, I did not know that. Yeah. Okay. As I'm reading

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Grace Unknown, I come from the Church of Christ background, and so the

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Reformed Theology is somewhat new to me. I just came onto the program, so I don't know if you've discussed this yet, but I'm scratching my head as I'm reading the book a little bit, and I'm thinking of particularly

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John 3, 16. I'm saying to myself, did God so love the world, or did God so love the elect?

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And then also 1 Timothy 2, where Paul, verses 1 through 6, where Paul is talking about prayers and intercessions for all the people there, when he was talking to Timothy for kings and people in high places, etc.,

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saying that God desires all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

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I wonder if you could just touch on those two scriptures as it relates to reform. I think in the discussion, John 3, 16 has been severely misused.

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All that that text teaches us is that God loved this fallen world enough to provide a redeemer for it.

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It doesn't mean that he loved them enough to save everybody in the world, otherwise it would lead us to universalism.

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But rather, God's love is so great that he gave us his only begotten son, that whoever believed in him would not perish, but have everlasting life.

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And he sent his son into the world, as John goes on to tell us there, that was already under condemnation because the world had rejected

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God the Father. And they preferred darkness rather than the light.

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So the text itself doesn't really address the doctrine of election in any way at all.

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All it does is tell us all who do A, that is, believe, will not have

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B, they will not perish, but they will have C, everlasting life.

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Some people derive the implication from this that this means that anybody in the world has the innate ability in and of themselves to incline themselves to faith.

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Well, John makes very clear in chapter 6 that's not the case, that in our fallen condition, no one will of themselves come to Jesus.

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Now you mentioned this other text, were you talking about 2 Peter or Timothy? 1 Timothy 2.

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All right, about God desires, God does not want anyone to perish.

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Right, right. Again, that tells us about his will of disposition,

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I think, in the Timothy passage. In the 2 Peter passage, God is not willing that any should perish, which is often used as the strong biblical case against election.

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But in the context of that, you have to ask, when it says that God is not willing that any should perish, we have to say any what?

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Any kangaroos, any grasshoppers, and people infer from the text that God is not willing that any person would perish.

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Well, if in God's sovereign will he decrees that no person on this planet perishes, then what?

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No one will perish. And if his desire that all come to repentance is expressed in a sovereign sense, then that again would be a text for universalism.

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And so those who reject Calvinism, but also at the same time reject universalism, have a problem with these texts because these texts prove more than they want to prove, taken from their perspective, if you're following my thinking at this point.

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But if you look carefully, for example, at the 2 Peter passage, it's very clear what

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Peter is talking about when he says, not willing that any, if you look in the context, the antecedent of any is us.

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And if you look at the people to whom the letters address, the letters address to whom?

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To the elect. So the text, rather than undermining election, solidifies it because God is not willing that any of the elect should perish, but that all of them come to salvation.

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Hey, Bob, thanks for the excellent questions. Thank you, gentlemen. 631 -482 -8300 is our number, 631 -482 -8300.

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Before we move on to announce the new college at Ligonier Academy in Biblical and Theological Studies, if you could also touch on one of the most profound themes of your conference,

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I would love it if you could come back on the program and do the whole hour on this because there's a lot of broken -hearted people out there grieving the loss of a loved one who was, in their belief, lost.

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Can we enjoy heaven knowing of loved ones in hell? Now, obviously, this would be very difficult in the brief time that we have left to fully plumb the depths of that question, but if you could at least do that.

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I don't think that if we weren't talking about it for two or three hours that I'd really be able to relieve the stress that people have over a question like that.

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I remember when I was in seminary, somebody asked that question to my professor there, how can

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I be happy if I wake up in heaven and I discover that my mother is in hell? And the professor looked at the student and he said, young man, don't you understand that when you are in heaven, you will be so perfected from the remnants of sin and your glorification that you will be able to look at your mother in hell and delight in the fact that she's there.

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When he said that, I burst out laughing because I thought he was joking. I really did. I thought, this guy can't be serious.

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But he was serious, and what he was getting at is right now, I can't imagine myself being happy if people that I know and love and really care for are in everlasting darkness.

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But that's because I'm looking at it from the perspective of a person who's barely sanctified and still

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I have more sympathy with my sinful friends and relatives than I have with God.

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And I'm more concerned about the well -being of my friends and loved ones than I am for the glory of God.

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And if indeed the divine judgment is an expression of God's glory, then there will have to come a day where I'm far more sanctified than I now am that at that day

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I will be able to rejoice that God's will is being done. I'm not there now, Chris.

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A few of us are, but the idea is in my head, that's the only way I can get my hands around that, that there will come a time where I will be more on God's side than I will be on my friend's side.

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I remember my friend, Ed Moore, who pastors a Calvinistic Baptist church here in the New York metropolitan area, he was at a conference where someone in the audience asked the speaker, if I get to heaven, will

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I see my mother there? And the speaker said, if you get to heaven, you'll be just as happy to see my mother there.

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Yeah, that's the same point of all that I'm saying. Yes. That's right. Well, this is exciting news about the new college at Ligonier Academy of Biblical and Theological Studies.

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Tell us about this and who can apply for this. Well, we just started it last July. The first program that we have is a doctor of ministry program for pastors, and that's phase one.

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And phase two is an undergraduate Bible college with majors in Biblical and Theological Studies, and later on we're going to have one in sacred music, and we have a curriculum that features church history, philosophy, apologetics,

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New Testament, Old Testament, and theology. And it's a Bible school, really. And right now we're hoping to kick off the first semester of the academy next

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September. That is September 2011. We're just now taking inquiries and applications for that first class.

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But we're very, very excited. We have a gorgeous location for this academy.

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We have no intentions of being Cecil B. DeMille University with a cast of thousands, a small college, with intimate relationships from a pedagogical perspective between faculty and students.

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Now, one question I've been curious to ask you, because I have not read this as of yet anywhere, but I know that you have gone through some theological transformation, as everybody who goes through the process of sanctification does, but were you ever a non -Calvinist in your

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Christian life, and were you ever an anti -Calvinist? You know,

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Roger Nicole, a great Swiss theologian, says we all are by nature semi -Pelagian.

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And when I was converted, it was kind of a Damascus Road sudden conversion, and I knew intuitively that it didn't have anything to do with it, that it was

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God who found me. I certainly was not pursuing God at all when I became a Christian. However, when

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I tried to understand the theology of salvation, virtually everybody around me had taken an

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Arminian approach to it, but my chief professor in college was Reformed, and he did everything in his power to persuade me of Reformed thought, but I fought it kicking and screaming for five years.

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Actually, I didn't submit to the doctrines of grace until I took a course in seminary on the theology of Jonathan Edwards.

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And my theology professor there, coupled with Edwards, and I had a little note on my desk that said, you're required to believe and to teach what the

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Bible teaches, not what you would like it to teach. And it was like Edwards just relentlessly put my nose in Romans 9, and I couldn't escape

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Romans 9. And once I acquiesced to it, then I saw it on every page.

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You know how that is. Yeah. Well, you know, a pastor that I know who was born and raised in an

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Arminian evangelical home, he came to the doctrines of sovereign grace, obviously by God's grace itself, but the instrument

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God used was an unsaved, non -Christian college professor who taught a course on Jonathan Edwards just because he was a profound figure of American history.

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And that was what the Lord used to bring him to the doctrines of grace. Isn't that something? It really is. You know, but I think there's a sort of a poetic justice in that, because I've spent so many years contending for the

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Reformed faith and dealing with my Arminian friends who find it very distasteful, and I have to be patient and I have to remember, hey,

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I sat where you are now for a long time, and I think sometimes God's just getting even with me for my obstinance.

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Well, I apologize to all of our listeners who are hanging on to talk to you. We unfortunately have to say goodbye to Dr.

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Sproul right now, but all the information you need about his books, about DVDs, about the conference, about the

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College at Ligonier Academy of Biblical and Theological Studies can be found at Ligonier .org,

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L -I -G -O -N -I -E -R .org. Any final words you'd like to say to our audience?

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No, just, Chris, I just want to say thank you for your graciousness in hosting me on your program.

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And I want to ask the people who are listening to this discussion, some I'm sure right now are struggling, some of them are probably angry,

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I just ask people to continue to search the Scriptures and examine these matters of the doctrines of Christ, because they are important.

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Because in the final analysis, the question is, is my salvation of God totally, or is it part

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God and part me? And I think as long as we hold on to that human -centered aspect of our understanding of our salvation, we fail to see the graciousness of grace.

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And it's really a liberating thing and a joy to the spirit to come to an appreciation of how sweet and excellent

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God's grace is that he would save a wretch like me. Amen. Thank you so much,

35:37

Dr. Sproul, for being on the broadcast. I will be sure to promote this conference regularly and hope to get as many of the speakers on to promote their own lectures at the conference as possible.

35:51

And I hope to have you back on this program very soon, Dr. Sproul. Thanks a lot. I'd love to do it,

35:56

Chris. Thank you and God bless. You bet. And that was Dr. R .C. Sproul on Iron Tripping Zion from Wednesday, May 19, 2010.

36:07

And when we return from a short break, we're going to be joined by my friend, Dr. Tom Askell, who is pastor of Grace Baptist Church of Cape Coral, Florida.

36:18

And he is going to be telling us how the ministry of R .C.

36:24

Sproul had a phenomenal impact on his life. And then later on, we're going to be joined by Dr.

36:31

Stephen J. Nichols, the president of the Reformation Bible College, a college in Sanford, Florida, that was founded by Ligonier Ministries, which was founded by the late

36:42

Dr. R .C. Sproul. Don't go away. God willing, we will be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

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39:35

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39:48

Welcome back, this is Chris Arnzen and my first guest today will be Dr. Tom Askle, pastor of Grace Baptist Church of Cape Coral, Florida, also the president of Founders Ministries, and we are going to be discussing, in tribute to the late

40:04

Dr. R .C. Sproul, who went home to glory yesterday, we're going to be discussing the impact that the life and ministry of R .C.

40:12

Sproul had upon my guest, Dr. Tom Askle, and it's such an honor and privilege to have you back on the program,

40:18

Tom. Thank you, Chris, I'm glad to be with you and honored to be here on this occasion.

40:25

Well, if you could, tell us something about when you first learned about R .C.

40:30

Sproul, about how old you were approximately and where you were in your faith journey at that point.

40:38

Yeah, well I was in seminary, the best I can recall, and had heard about him in Pennsylvania when

40:45

Ligonier was still in Ligonier Valley. And I was finishing up my seminar work for the

40:54

Ph .D. studies at Southwestern Seminary in Fort Worth, and the book Holiness of God had just come out,

41:01

I don't know if that was 85 or 86, right around in there. And I got it, but I was having a lot more reading

41:07

I had to do for those seminars and the prep work for oral exams, so I put it in a stack of about 15 books that I was going to read as soon as I got time back to myself.

41:19

And so that was in that stack of books, and I read it and shortly after that became pastor out here in Florida.

41:27

And the book just had an incredible impact on me. He opened up scriptures to me in ways

41:33

I had not seen or thought about as deeply or clearly in that book.

41:38

So I got the video series of the old VHS videotapes and watched his lectures teaching this material, and that was one of the things that early on when it was appropriate,

41:51

I felt like it was appropriate, introduced to the church here in Cape Coral. The church was not in good shape and had not been taught well, and we had a lot of needs.

42:00

And so that's where we started up in my preaching. One of the things I quickly moved to was the doctrine of God.

42:07

And so this video series was very instrumental for adult Sunday school for I forget how many weeks or months we went through it, but however long the sessions were.

42:19

And they were broken out. That's what we did. And so that was the first time that I really became familiar with him.

42:25

And, of course, when he moved to Florida, it was easier to get up there and learn about Ligonier more on a firsthand basis.

42:32

I've been greatly helped by his teaching and ministry, and praise God for him.

42:39

Amen. Now, when you first had discovered Dr. Sproul's ministry, were you also already

42:45

Reformed at that time, being a Southern Baptist? I'm not sure where you might have been in regard to those doctrines. Yes, I was.

42:51

But it was within a few years of having come to see the doctrines of grace.

42:57

So I was still very much sorting my way through, thinking through implications and applications.

43:03

And I don't remember exactly when this occurred or where it happened. It may have been sitting in on one of his teachings at a conference or somewhere up at Ligonier.

43:15

But I remember him telling the story about sitting in John Gerstner's class.

43:21

And Gerstner asked the question about, you know, if God is absolutely sovereign in salvation and gives grace to whom he will, and if election is unconditionally eternal, then why in the world should we evangelize?

43:34

What possible motivation do we have? And everyone was too scared to answer the question.

43:42

So finally he timidly put his hand up. He said, well, I know this is probably not the right answer, a very good answer, but, you know, he does command us to.

43:51

And the way Sproul told the story was Gerstner just upbraided him with a lengthy list of attributes of God.

44:00

Yes, why in the world should we think that it would be any motivation at all to obey the command of our sovereign, almighty creator,

44:09

Lord who has given us life and breath, who gave his son to die on the cross for us? Of course, obedience to him is not much motivation at all.

44:17

That made a big impact on me to realize, okay, God's God, and what God says goes.

44:22

And if I don't understand it and he tells me to do it, that's clearly my responsibility. And I'm sure that although you were already

44:30

Reformed and you're thinking when you discovered Dr. Sproul, I'm sure that as your life progressed and as his life progressed, there were a continuing stream of blessings that came into your life and to your ministry as a result of hearing him preach and reading his books.

44:47

Oh, without a doubt. And I was able to go to Ligonier conferences here in Florida for several years, many of our members have gone to those conferences and, of course, benefit tremendously.

44:59

The Ligonier ministry itself has just been incredibly helpful to founders. We've benefited from them on multiple levels, and they've said to us repeatedly how they appreciate the efforts that we've been engaged in and want to support and encourage that.

45:17

The Table Talk magazine, I began to subscribe to Table Talk back when, if I remember right,

45:23

I think it was an 8 1⁄2 by 11 pulp paper type of magazine.

45:30

So it was bigger than originally you're saying. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, if I remember right, I'm pretty sure I'm correct in that, at least for the first couple of years or so,

45:38

I believe that's the way the magazine was formatted. And that has been a staple diet.

45:43

We use that throughout our congregation. And then just the people around R .C.,

45:49

some of the folks that he has mentored and raised up there to help lead in Ligonier have been also very influential in my life.

45:59

So I praise God for him. I've grieved his death knowing that it was coming and yet rejoicing that he was an incredible gift to the church and to our world for this generation.

46:11

Yeah, he's one of those individuals that even though those who are very close to him, his wife and his children and his grandchildren and those who work closely with him, will no doubt be grieving in a much deeper way than we are.

46:26

But at the same time, they know that this man has had a very long and fruitful life filled with accomplishments.

46:36

I mean, he's globally known as being one of the key representatives of Christ's church on this planet alive today.

46:45

He was alive until yesterday and now he is even more alive in the presence of Christ.

46:51

But he is a man that also was reaching a point in his life when he was battling illness, battling difficulty physically.

47:01

So I'm sure that the grief and the mourning is buffered by sweetness, knowing where he is, knowing that he is a legacy that he has left behind that will continue to not only equip the saints but also lead the lost souls globally to the

47:20

Lord. Yeah, amen, amen. I just picked up yesterday when

47:25

I got the news. I pulled off my shelf my copy of the holiness of God. So I'm holding it now looking at it.

47:32

I just noticed that he dedicated this book. I think it's to his grandchildren, Keke and Ryan.

47:39

And he put this, and to their generation that they may live during a new reformation.

47:46

And I think that's what's happening. I think that the Lord has granted that desire and has used his labors in a very significant way to stoke those flames.

47:59

Indeed. I remember when I was a very young Christian having been raised

48:05

Roman Catholic and having spent a little time searching in Arminian churches and Pentecostal churches where when

48:15

I finally believe I reached the point where I was genuinely regenerate and when

48:22

I couldn't wait to be baptized where before I was very nervous, apprehensive, anxiety filled, perhaps even very fearful and embarrassed to publicly pronounce to all that I was giving my allegiance to Jesus Christ and denouncing the former self that I was.

48:49

When I came to a point where that was no longer the case, I couldn't wait to get baptized. I couldn't wait for my family to see that I was now a new person and that I had a new allegiance and so on.

49:02

And thankfully that occurred in a reformed Baptist church which was then Calvary Baptist Church of Amityville.

49:09

And now today it's known as Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick, New York. But one of the first experiences

49:16

I had as a new reformed Christian was going to the

49:22

Philadelphia Conference on Reformed Theology and R .C. Sproul was one of the first among other speakers at the first PCRT that I had ever attended.

49:36

And I remember just being totally blown away by this man and saying to myself that I had very rarely experienced hearing somebody with the gifts that he has in oratory and his intellect and so on and his ability to retain and teach the deep truths of scripture.

50:02

I'm sure that you would agree with me that one of the things that is such a blessing about Dr.

50:08

Sproul and I've heard many other people say this, is that if he's beginning to lecture on a very deep issue and he begins to use very long theological terms that look like eye charts and he brings up figures from history that you've never heard from before eventually you know he is going to bring this discussion down to the level of nearly everybody in the audience.

50:38

And he's going to break down these complicated and deep things so that a person of average or below intelligence like me will be able to say, oh that's what he's talking about.

50:50

That is profound. Wouldn't you agree that that would be one of his gifts? Oh absolutely. He spoke in ways that were not condescending at all and yet could make profound theological truths accessible to people who didn't have his gifts or his training or his intellectual firepower.

51:16

And I think that that's been manifested in what God has done with Ligonier Ministries.

51:22

He's gone after the people in the pew. He's gone after folks that aren't going to go to seminary and get trained in deep theological disciplines.

51:36

And he's done it very successfully. He's an incredible teacher, an amazing teacher. And what would you say are some of the favorite or best resources as far as you're concerned personally that have blessed you and helped you the most by Dr.

51:54

Sproul and made available through Ligonier Ministries that you could recommend? Well, as I said, the book on the holiness of God, I just think it's unsurpassed in the way that it explains the character of God or the reality of God as holy.

52:12

It's not an attribute. That is God. It's his essence. That would be first on my list. It's another one that may not be as well -known, and I think he actually wrote it earlier but I didn't come across it until later, was knowing

52:24

Scripture. And I have found that to be a tool on just understanding the

52:29

Bible, how to stay in the Bible, biblical hermeneutics, some of the critical issues regarding Scripture. I can put that in the hand of any serious

52:38

Christian who's willing to read it, and they understand it. I've used that book tremendously in a lot of different contexts.

52:45

And in one of his later books, I don't know when it came out, but Everyone's a

52:50

Theologian. I mean, that's a book that you can go to and look up particular theological categories that you want to learn about, and he has put that on the lower shelf as well, so that it's very, very accessible.

53:06

Those are three that come to my mind immediately. I have to tell you, too, his children's books are great.

53:12

Oh, yeah, the illustrations in them are phenomenal as well. Well, you know,

53:33

I'm going to go to our midway break, and I was hoping that perhaps just for a few more minutes when we return from the break you could stay with us for a few more minutes before Dr.

53:41

Nichols joins us. Would you be able to do that? Yeah, I'd be glad. We're going to be going on about a 10 -minute break because it's required of Grace Life Radio and 90 .1

53:51

FM in Lake City, Florida. They require a 12 -minute break between our two segments.

53:58

So I hope all of you listening are patient, and if you want to join us with a question, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

54:04

chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away. God willing, we will be right back after these messages with more of Tom Askell, and then later on with Dr.

54:13

Stephen J. Nichols paying tribute to the late Dr. R .C. Sproul. Iron Sharpens Iron welcomes

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Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting you to tune into A Visit to the Pastor's Study every

55:44

Saturday from 12 noon to 1 pm Eastern Time on WLIE Radio, www .wlie540am

55:54

.com. We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you, and we invite you to visit the

56:00

Pastor's Study by calling in with your questions. Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull.

56:07

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for A Visit to the Pastor's Study, because everyone needs a pastor.

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Our church is far more than a Sunday worship service. It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.

56:39

It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement. It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing.

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We're a diverse family of all ages. Enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ in fellowship, play, and together.

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Call Lindbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402. That's 516 -599 -9402.

57:07

Or visit LindbrookBaptist .org. That's LindbrookBaptist .org. Welcome back. This is

57:12

Chris Arnzen. And Dr. Tom Askew, are you still with us? Yes, sir. I was wondering if we could wrap up sooner than expected because Dr.

57:21

Nichols is going to be joining us soon. And then could you return at 530? Oh, no, I can't, brother.

57:27

I wish I could, but I've got a commitment. I understand. Well, that's quite all right. It's one of those live radio things where he had to change something in his schedule, so he has to come on the program earlier than he was expecting.

57:40

Sure. Good to be with you. Well, I want to make sure that our listeners have all of your contact information.

57:46

How do they get a hold of not only Grace Baptist Church in Cape Coral, Florida, but also

57:51

Founders Ministries? Well, the church website is truegraceofgod .org,

57:58

and the founders website is founders .org. So you can go to those two websites and learn just about anything you want to know about us.

58:06

Great. Well, I'm looking forward to seeing you. I think that you're going to be speaking at the G3 conference, aren't you?

58:12

That's correct. Lord willing, we'll be there in January. Well, I am looking forward to that because I have an exhibitors booth there, and God willing,

58:20

I'll see you there. I'm looking forward to not only hearing and seeing you preach live in person again, but also sharing fellowship with you.

58:27

So that's an extra reason for me to be excited about going to the

58:32

G3 conference this year. Well, that's kind of you, Chris. I look forward to seeing you as well. That's this

58:37

January, I meant. I said this year, but obviously everybody knows what I'm talking about. And for those of you listening, if you want to go to the

58:43

G3 conference, go to g3conference .com to register, g3conference .com, and the event will be taking place from the 17th through the 20th.

58:52

The 17th begins with a debate featuring Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, and the 18th through the 20th is an actual conference, which

59:00

I will be discussing in greater detail later. But thank you, Dr. Tom Eskell. I look forward to your return very soon.

59:06

All right. Thanks, Chris. God bless. God bless you too. And we're going to be joined by Stephen J.

59:11

Nichols any moment now, and he is not only a dear friend of Dr. R .C. Sproul, but he is president of Reformation Bible College, and he's a

59:23

Ligonier Teaching Fellow, adjunct professor for Reform Theological Seminary, a visiting lecturer at Westminster Theological Seminary's program at the

59:32

John Owens Center in London, and he's an author of many books, including Welcome to the

59:37

Story, Peace Classic Readings for Christmas, A Time for Confidence, and volumes in the guided tour series on Jonathan Edwards, Martin Luther, and J.

59:48

Gresham Machen, and host of the weekly podcast, Five Minutes in Church History.

59:54

He's also the president, or should I say the chief executive, the chief academic officer of Ligonier Ministries, and I'm looking forward to our discussion with Dr.

01:00:06

Nichols. Many of you may recognize that name because he has been a guest at least several times on Iron Trip and Zion Radio already, and he's quite a gifted speaker, quite a brilliant young man, although I've been told that his looks are deceiving.

01:00:26

I always thought that he was a lot younger than me, but I think he's a lot closer in age to me than I ever expected, which is always a depressing discovery when somebody's close or near to your age or older than you that looks decades younger than you do.

01:00:41

But Dr. Nichols should be joining us at any second. If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

01:00:54

That's C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Please give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.

01:01:04

If you live outside of the USA, and please only remain anonymous if it's about a personal and private matter.

01:01:11

I'm not sure why that would be the case if you're writing in about a tribute to R .C.

01:01:18

Sproul, but perhaps your theological issue is so compelling, we'll take your question anyway, that may have a personal connection to it.

01:01:27

But in any case, if it's not about a personal or private matter, please give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.

01:01:36

And by the way, I might as well take the time while we wait. Well, here's Dr. Nichols now.

01:01:44

Dr. Stephen J. Nichols, welcome to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, brother. Hey Chris, thanks for having me.

01:01:50

Good to be back with you. Yeah, I've already given a more detailed introduction to you, so we don't have to cut into our time today.

01:01:59

But perhaps you could even begin immediately, before we even get into anything specific about Dr.

01:02:06

Sproul, perhaps you could give us something of, and everybody grieves differently, and of course this is very fresh, but you know, we as Christians, especially when we know a loved one who has gone home to glory, or who has departed from this earth, we know that they've gone home to glory, and we know that they have a life that has been filled with evidence of being a champion for Christ, and so on.

01:02:35

We grieve in a different way, much differently than those who have no hope, or those who have perhaps a giant question mark hovering over their head in regard to somebody who has departed.

01:02:47

They don't know for certain, because they've only had an opportunity to evangelize somebody several times, or perhaps the person that they've been evangelizing for decades has given little evidence, but maybe has given some.

01:02:59

But in Dr. Sproul's case, that is an entirely different story, because he's one of the, and I hate to sound like I'm going overboard with hero worship, but he is clearly one of the greatest heroes of modern day

01:03:13

Christianity that many people can claim as their own, and is one of the key representatives who was teaching and writing, representing

01:03:23

Christ's church on earth in this century. But how do you, as someone who's not only a close friend and colleague, but a brother in Christ, react to this kind of news?

01:03:37

Yeah, I'd be glad to start there with you. Well, tell us, brother.

01:03:46

Yeah, sure. Well, you know, I've not been at Lincoln, founded in 1971, so I've been down here about four years.

01:03:55

But in the last four years, I've been able to spend time with Dr. Sproul. I've tried to glean as much as I can from him, just in terms of what his vision is for the college here,

01:04:06

Reformation Bible College, his vision for the ministry, and just his vision even for the next generation.

01:04:14

And so through all that, I just have really appreciated the times, just sweet times that I could be around him.

01:04:24

Truth is, I miss him. I miss him already. Just a dear, dear man.

01:04:30

And I sort of liken him to Luther, the church history figure.

01:04:35

Of course, he loved Luther. He had the mind of Calvin, but I think he lived a bit more like Luther, and I think he was a

01:04:43

Luther of our day. Just as Luther was sort of a larger -than -life figure, well, I honestly believe that was

01:04:50

R .C., just a larger -than -life figure. In fact, a Lutheran pastor I know recently commented to me, this

01:04:57

Lutheran brother was trying to claim R .C. as one of his own. That might be a stretch.

01:05:06

But he was certainly one who loved life. You know, here's what I've been doing. I've just been listening to him.

01:05:13

I went back and found a clip of a piece he had done. It was a little Q &A session with Derek Thomas, and at the very end

01:05:22

Lee Webb asked him about his times of suffering. He reminded R .C. that he had written a book called

01:05:27

Surprised by Suffering, and he said, you know, R .C., how are you? Are you coming back to that book?

01:05:33

Are you taking your own advice? He proceeded to say that every day he prays the 23rd

01:05:40

Psalm. And he said, I just have to go back to that. I just have to remember who

01:05:47

God is and who I am and that he is my good shepherd. And it's just a beautiful way to remember his legacy by allowing him to teach us how to respond to this moment of grief and this time of loss.

01:06:07

I mean, we rejoice for him, there's no doubt. He preached on a Sunday. This is the last

01:06:13

Sunday of November he preached at St. Andrews. A wonderful sermon on Hebrews Chapter 2,

01:06:19

How Shall We Escape If We Neglect So Great Salvation? Pre -said sermon.

01:06:24

And then that Saturday, as we announced on our blog, that would have been December 2, he went into the hospital.

01:06:31

So he was faithful and fruitful right up to the end. And we just rejoice in the life, the full life that God gave him.

01:06:42

And we know that he is right there amongst the choir of angels singing,

01:06:48

Holy, Holy, Holy. So we just couldn't be more happy for him. And no, it wasn't too long ago, he said this in a taped series.

01:07:01

He said, you know, if I were to die right now, I have confidence

01:07:06

I stand before God. He said, I have all the righteousness that I need to get into heaven because I'm clothed in the righteousness of Christ.

01:07:14

And I have Christ's righteousness. So we do. We just rejoice for him that he has truly been a faithful servant.

01:07:23

And he now rests in the presence of his Lord. And of course, all his heroes.

01:07:28

You know, I'm sure he's found Luther by now. So we just rejoice with him.

01:07:34

But we grieve. I grieve. I miss him. We miss him here. Our heart goes out to his family, to his wife

01:07:40

Vesta. R .C. liked to tell a story of a friend of theirs, a family friend of theirs, whose young kid thought

01:07:49

R .C.'s name was R .C. and Vesta. Because he actually thought that was his name, because he just never knew of R .C.

01:08:00

and never heard of R .C. other than R .C. and Vesta. And the two had truly become one flesh, and they were inseparable.

01:08:07

So we grieve for her, and we lift her up, and we hold up the family. But he taught us.

01:08:15

He taught us that we do not rely on our own strength. We recognize our weakness.

01:08:22

And we have a, the Lord is God, and he is abundant in goodness to his children.

01:08:30

And R .C. taught us that. So he's helping us how to respond to this.

01:08:36

And I don't want to be dramatic here, but, you know, the reality is, we talked to someone this week.

01:08:43

They said they can't imagine the Reformed universe without R .C. in it. I know. It's a gaping hole.

01:08:50

It's just a gaping hole. And we mourn and we grieve. But he taught us well, that we look to God, and we trust in God, and we just have such a good

01:09:01

God who loves us. Yeah, the first half hour of my program today,

01:09:07

I played the first and, unfortunately, only interview I was able to ever conduct with Dr.

01:09:14

Sproul, and it was such an honor to have that opportunity, especially since, subsequent to that, he wrote the most glowing and most phenomenal commendation for my radio program that I could ever dream to possess.

01:09:32

That is something that I will treasure until I'm in heaven. But he mentioned a couple of things.

01:09:38

He was actually talking providentially about how when we are in heaven, we will no longer be agonizing over the deaths of those that we know were lost because when we are in heaven, our minds will be much more perfectly in sync with God's will.

01:09:55

And he also was talking about, it was providential that you're on today because the interview was,

01:10:04

I believe, May 19, 2010, and Ligonier was just launching the college. Yeah.

01:10:11

So we were talking a bit about the college. Back then, they were going to be calling it, and maybe they did for a time, but they were calling it the

01:10:17

Ligonier College. Yeah, so he really quickly changed that, and he wanted it to be the

01:10:23

Reformation Bible College, and that's what we are. You know, I think about this.

01:10:30

His own college years were very formative on him. You know, he went to college unconverted, and he'll tell you this, he was in church all his life, but he never heard the gospel.

01:10:40

He was in a Presbyterian church, and the minister had amended the shorter catechism.

01:10:47

And the minister had added a question, who was the greatest Christian who ever lived?

01:10:53

And the answer was Albert Schweitzer. That was actually in his amended catechism?

01:11:00

That was the question that he had to memorize, yes. And Vesta, she was in the same class. So, you know, he goes off to college unconverted, and in his freshman year, he's converted.

01:11:12

Then he is sitting in a lecture at an introduction to philosophy class, and he's bored out of his mind. He's newly converted.

01:11:18

He's sitting in the back reading Billy Graham sermons, not paying any attention. And then the professor launches into this lecture on Augustine on creation and time, and R .C.

01:11:29

was blown away. And then all those folks who've read Holiness of God, you know the opening pages, that midnight walk where he was compelled to go from his dorm to the chapel on the campus of Westminster College, north of Pittsburgh.

01:11:44

And there he had his encounter, and as he says in the Holiness of God, with the awesome

01:11:50

God, with the holy God. And then, of course, he's married. In between his junior and senior years, 1960,

01:11:57

June 11, 1960, he marries Vesta. So college could not have been more formative for him, and I think he knew that, and I think he knew how college minds are shaped and formed and what can result from impacting kids in college.

01:12:15

And I think that had a lot to do with him wanting, his own experience had a lot to do with him wanting to start a college, and of course he's going to call it

01:12:22

Reformation Bible College, because he wants to train up Reformers. He wants bold proclaimers of the gospel who know the truth and are willing to defend the truth and contend for the truth.

01:12:33

And so, you know, as I try to get a handle on R .C.'s life and all of his legacy,

01:12:39

I really do think there are a few of his accomplishments that are as dear to his heart and his heartbeat as the college and as the work of the college here.

01:12:51

And he started in the PCUSA, correct? He did. He started in the UP. Back then it was called the

01:12:57

United Presbyterian Church USA. This would have been in, oh, 1965 that he was ordained, and then he did transfer his credentials over later to the

01:13:09

Presbyterian Church in America. And I'm assuming that there was some kind of radical change in his theology and way of viewing things that would have caused him to make this leap, because that's a difficult thing to leave a denomination that you are a part of.

01:13:29

Do you know how early in his life he is confident he really became a child of God, where he was in love with Christ and seeking to follow

01:13:42

Him? Yeah, yeah, sure. So right away, so he's converted his freshman year, and then he just devours the

01:13:49

Old Testament. He reads it through in no time at all, and he comes away from his first reading of the

01:13:56

Old Testament, he speaks of this often, and he says, this is a God who plays for keeps. He recognized almost from the out...

01:14:04

You can almost begin to see that the singular focus on the transcendence of God at the center of his theology, almost right from the moment he's converted.

01:14:18

But his formative years were in seminary, and there he came under Dr. John Gershner. And so, remember, the

01:14:24

PCA is not founded right now, and this is a time of turmoil within the

01:14:30

Presbyterian Church, and Gershner is just fighting for conservatism, and so is R .C.

01:14:35

There was a group formed called Presbyterians United for Biblical Concern, and R .C.

01:14:41

and Gershner were very much a part of that. And, you know, eventually you begin to realize that you're trying to fight within a denomination.

01:14:50

You eventually realize that this is a line Warfield told Machen decades ago, you can't split dead wood, you know?

01:14:58

And so you get to a point where you just need to leave, and that's where R .C., after fighting so much for the conservative cause, just threw his hat in then with the

01:15:07

PCA. But, no, from his seminary days and influence of Gershner and his own reading and just the impact of Scripture upon him, he was steeled in his convictions, and you see it.

01:15:23

And, of course, in the 70s, he's involved in the inerrancy push and is a significant architect of the

01:15:30

Chicago Statement on Inerrancy, and that's 1978. So that's, you know, very early in his startup.

01:15:36

You know, I might be mistaken, but didn't his mentor, John Gershner, remain in the

01:15:42

PCUSA longer or the UP longer than R .C. did? He did, yeah, and Gershner just really felt like he needed to make an impact.

01:15:52

And I think, you know, it's probably different if you're towards the end of your career than if you were at the beginning of your career and what your hopes are to make an impact.

01:16:02

So I think there's a little bit of just needing to realize the different contexts that are there.

01:16:07

But it was more of not a difference of opinion about where things are going, just a question of where energy is best put at the time.

01:16:18

Yeah, I know that Dr. Sproul truly loved his mentor, John Gershner, and admired him, even though they did have differences theologically.

01:16:25

I don't know when those differences arose, but I know that there were some. I know that one of them would be the free offer of the gospel and some of those other things.

01:16:35

You know, I remember R .C. at one point, he said, I would be lost without Gershner.

01:16:42

I would have been lost without Gershner. And if he just hadn't had that influence, you know, being at a liberal seminary, yeah.

01:16:50

So R .C. really was indebted to Gershner, and he loved that man.

01:16:55

Yeah, and I don't know if you ever noticed this, or if this is something that just me and some other folks have imagined, but it sounded like the older R .C.

01:17:05

got, the more he sounded like John Gershner in his voice. I'm not saying necessarily everything that he was teaching, but in his voice.

01:17:13

Yeah, you know, Gershner could growl, and I'll just leave it at that.

01:17:21

How's that? One thing that I thought was interesting about Dr.

01:17:28

R .C. Sproul, and I'd like to see if you agree with me, but one of the reasons why he was a rare individual was that unlike many others, the more famous Dr.

01:17:42

Sproul became, the more world -renowned he became, the more of, if you want to,

01:17:49

I know that he would never ever dream of wanting to be described as a Christian celebrity, but you can categorize him in that way just because of the fact that he is so beloved globally and so on.

01:18:05

But the more famous he got, the more conservative he became, it seems to me, other than or in contrast to many people who begin conservative, and the more famous they become, they become more and more moderate or accommodating.

01:18:26

It seemed to me that Dr. Sproul was going in the reverse direction. Would you agree with that statement? Well, you know, he has a line in Chosen by God where he says, you don't do theology by counting noses, and he always was, just believed so much in the authority of Scripture that he had a genuine sense of conviction of a truth, not because it sprung out of his own head, but because it was the truthfulness of God's Word.

01:18:58

And so he had his convictions were steeled, and he didn't need public opinion.

01:19:05

In fact, I think it's interesting that, you know, the more R .C. sort of zigged, while a lot of contemporary evangelicalism zagged, the more that he zigged, people followed him, because he was different, because he took a stand, because he just wasn't going wherever the culture was going or modifying his views or trying to be accommodating to where cultural pressures come in.

01:19:33

He was refreshing because he took a bold stand and a courageous stand. You know, you see this in evangelicals and Catholics together, and he took some stands during that moment in the 1990s there that did cost him dearly.

01:19:48

Oh yeah, he was on the John Ankerberg show, I can vividly remember, along with John MacArthur and D.

01:19:55

James Kennedy. That's right, yeah. And, you know, MacArthur said, I think this explains the friendship, because theologically you've got a lot of, you can have two more different people, you know, in terms of eschatology, one's a

01:20:07

Presbyterian, one's a Baptist, but these two had a deep respect, and you see it even right now in the way

01:20:13

MacArthur is just speaking of his dear friend. And it was that commitment to truth, but not just the commitment to truth, the boldness of proclaiming the truth and standing up for the truth that I think knit those two together.

01:20:26

And, again, you know, R .C., he goes back to the Reformers for this, he calls them battlefield theologians, and I think that's what he was.

01:20:35

But he was, you know, the other thing about him, and I think we miss this sometimes with him, he loved people, and I think he just genuinely cared about people.

01:20:46

You know, I didn't know this until just recently, but while he was a student in seminary, his first congregation was a very, very blue -collar,

01:20:55

Hungarian immigrant church in Lindora, Pennsylvania, which was sort of a suburb community of Butler, which was sort of a suburb community of Pittsburgh.

01:21:04

I mean, these were hard -shell steel workers and Hungarian immigrants, just fresh from the

01:21:15

Hungarian Revolution. And that was his first congregation. And, you know, he's in seminary having a seminar on the

01:21:24

Council of Trent, and then he has to show up at Sunday and preach to people who don't even have an elementary school education.

01:21:32

And I think that that, being his first pastor, really impacted him on how to care for people, how to communicate for people.

01:21:40

And from the beginning, he just cared about the lady, he cared about the people in the pew, and I think you see that emphasis throughout his ministry, throughout his life.

01:21:51

Yes, he was no dry communicator of dead orthodoxy.

01:21:58

He was a compelling speaker, and even as I was telling

01:22:04

Dr. Tom Askell before you came on, of Founders Ministries. He's a dear man, sure.

01:22:10

Yeah, and as I was telling him, Dr. Sproul had a gift for starting out with a very complicated, deeply intellectual, sophisticated argument, but then he would always make sure that he would bring the content of his message down for the ordinary person to understand what he was speaking about.

01:22:32

And he did so with such a compassionate voice that it was engaging.

01:22:39

I mean, there are so many people from across the theological spectrum that were captivated by Dr.

01:22:45

Sproul, even if they weren't in Reformed circles. He just had something about him that God gave him that made him, the grace oozed out of him, for lack of a better term, which is not, in my opinion, something very, very common among academically gifted scholars like he was.

01:23:05

Yeah, that's right. He definitely saw his service to the

01:23:10

Church and not to the academic community. There was a time early, right after he finished seminary, did doctoral work for a year, studies in Amsterdam at the

01:23:23

Free University there. Then he came back and he had a series of very short professorships.

01:23:30

He had a one -year professorship at his alma mater while a professor was on a year sabbatical, and then he had a two -year stint up at Gordon College.

01:23:41

And then he had one year at Conwell, which at the time, it's now merged, Gordon -Conwell

01:23:46

Theological Seminary, but at the time it was Conwell Theological Seminary on the campus of Temple University in Philadelphia.

01:23:53

And while he was teaching at Temple, he was also doing an adult Sunday school class in a church there in Orland, just outside of Philadelphia.

01:24:02

And he was sort of bored at seminary in his teaching, but he loved the 11 o 'clock or whatever hour it was

01:24:12

Sunday school class at Orland. And you begin to see that almost at that moment, likely, is where the vision for Ligonier Ministries was born.

01:24:22

And that desire to really, again, just like the Reformers, to take the message to the people and to see a hungry laity who desires not to be spoon -fed, but desires the meat of God's Word, he just lights up in front of that kind of crowd and they respond to him.

01:24:45

And that's really how Ligonier was born. And just over the years, God blessed it and just extended the reach of R .C.'s

01:24:52

ministry. So we're just, and now here we are, and we're just very grateful for all these folks that have been impacted by him and have been taught by him and discipled by him.

01:25:05

We're just very grateful for all that. Now, how was it that he first got into contact with you and how you eventually wound up being the president of Reformation Bible College?

01:25:17

Yeah, well, I still pinch myself that I'm here. So I don't know. You know,

01:25:23

I had written some things for Table Talk. I sort of swim in the same pond that he did with Edwards and the

01:25:33

Reformers. And, you know, I began just sort of on the periphery of Ligonier with some writing for Table Talk and speaking at a conference here or there.

01:25:45

But it was really just shortly before I came down here that just struck up the relationship with some of the leadership here at Ligonier Ministries.

01:25:51

Chris Larson, our president, CEO of the ministry, and then just through the Sprouls. And as I heard about his vision for the college and what he hoped it to be, it just really deeply resonated with me.

01:26:03

And I just felt like, oh, this is something I could really just roll my sleeves up and get behind and just really believe in.

01:26:11

And God just really brought it together. And it's truly one of the singular joys of my life to be able to have spent some time with R .C.

01:26:22

and to be here and to be at this college that he founded and that he animated, really, with the spirit not only of his theology, but with the spirit of his emphases and of his heartbeat.

01:26:36

So it's truly a joy for me to be here. Very grateful for it. Amen. And, you know,

01:26:43

I give away every time. I mean, I'm pretty certain it's every time or at least close to every time that somebody close to me has somebody close to them pass away, whether they are believers or not,

01:27:01

I give them a copy of his book, Surprised by Suffering. That has been such an enormous blessing to me.

01:27:08

And now comes the time for people who love him most to be gleaning the benefits from that book more than ever.

01:27:16

Yes. You know, that's where he's taught us this is a beautiful thing. You know, you love these things of providence that come into these moments.

01:27:28

But we plan. Our radio show, of course, is Renewing Your Mind. We plan this months out. The broadcasting team, actually,

01:27:35

I say we, but it's the broadcasting team. They plan this months out. And probably two or three months ago, we planned what would be today's broadcast.

01:27:45

Now, next week we're going to have some special remembrance ones, but this week was just business as usual, as it were.

01:27:52

The program planned for today was R .C. giving a sermon on The Believer's Final Rest.

01:28:00

Wow. That's the title of the sermon. Wow. The Believer's Final Rest. And it's

01:28:05

R .C. talking about seeing Christ and the hope of the believer is

01:28:11

Christ as our reward. That was the sermon. And so, you know, we know God is sovereign.

01:28:18

We celebrate God's providence, but, you know, when you see it in this moment. And so, you know, I just say that to say, here's

01:28:24

R .C. in the moment of his passing, teaching us of what a blessing it is to die in the

01:28:33

Lord and to know that he is with his Savior and that he is seeing Christ face to face.

01:28:40

It's just beautiful. It's very beautiful. Amen. Well, I know that I'm going to be, once again, cracking open the book,

01:28:50

Surprised by Suffering. And, in fact, I'm going to try to find the video that I had of that.

01:28:56

I don't know if there's still a DVD or some kind of visual version of that that is available.

01:29:02

I know he did have one at one point, Surprised by Suffering. But I don't know if you heard the beginning of the program, but today is actually the sixth anniversary of my own wife's passing.

01:29:14

So it's very providential that R .C.

01:29:19

would go home to glory yesterday. And, of course, you start thinking of things that we have no way of knowing.

01:29:25

My wife, my late wife, treasured the ministry of Dr. R .C.

01:29:30

Sproul and James Montgomery Boyce. And I can't help but wonder if she's up there talking with both of them.

01:29:36

Yes, right. Those two had such a great relationship. The influence of them on the church and just the broader evangelical world.

01:29:47

So I'm sure R .C. is enjoying being reunited with his brother -in -arms, Jim Boyce.

01:29:53

Yeah, in fact, I have such precious memories of my dating years with my wife. When we would go see

01:29:59

Dr. Boyce in Manhattan, he would make frequent trips to Manhattan to do Bible conferences.

01:30:05

Those have some precious memories for me with my wife. But I want to make sure that you have just a couple of minutes uninterrupted to just leave our listeners with what you most want to have etched in their hearts and minds when it comes to our modern -day hero,

01:30:22

R .C. Sproul, entering into eternity. You know, I think it goes back to what

01:30:27

I was trying to convey at the beginning, that as I look at R .C. and it's just such an incredible legacy of books,

01:30:34

I can't think of a piece of Christian doctrine that he didn't write on. But as I come back to it,

01:30:41

I keep sort of tracing all of it back, like spokes of a wheel back to the hub, just to the doctrine of God.

01:30:48

And I think R .C. was just brilliant at summarizing for us and just making things, spoiling it down to the essential and clear and straightforward point.

01:31:01

And to me, it summed up in his statement that God is holy and we are not.

01:31:07

And as we understand who God is, and as we understand who we are, we are immediately thrown to the

01:31:15

God -man, Jesus Christ. And to recognize that there is no hope without Christ, that there is no way we can stand before a holy

01:31:26

God if it were not for Christ and his perfect obedience and his sacrificial atoning death.

01:31:33

And so this image that R .C. just loved of exchanging our filthy rags, and to just think about that, that God gave us his only begotten son, and he gets out of that deal our filthy rags.

01:31:53

He takes our filthy rags, and then he gives us his righteous robe.

01:32:00

God gives us Christ's righteousness, and we are clothed in Christ's righteousness. To me, that just brings everything

01:32:08

R .C. was about together, that God is holy, that we are not, and we are in absolute need of the

01:32:15

God -man to reconcile us to a holy God, and we stand clothed in Christ's righteousness.

01:32:21

And that's the beauty of the gospel. That's the sweetness of the gospel. And we just need to love it and proclaim it and defend it.

01:32:32

That's what we're called to do. And I just would encourage those folks that haven't been exposed to R .C.

01:32:44

to get out there. I think you're going to find him a wonderful teacher and to just be helpful to you.

01:32:50

But he just helps us remember what are those essential things and how crucial they are to us. Amen.

01:32:56

Well, Steve, it's been such an honor and privilege to have you back on the program, especially that you made time to do so today, the day after the homegoing of Dr.

01:33:05

R .C. Sproul. I look forward to having you come back to the program, and I want to make sure our listeners know that the

01:33:10

Reformation Bible College website is ReformationBibleCollege .org, ReformationBibleCollege .org,

01:33:18

and the website of Ligonier Ministries is Ligonier .org, Ligonier .org.

01:33:23

I look forward to your returning when perhaps you can spend more time with us. I know that you had to leave after a half hour, so it's my honor and privilege that you were making that half hour available to us today.

01:33:36

Yeah, thank you for having me and I appreciate the time with you to talk about R .C. It means a lot to us.

01:33:41

Thank you. Hey, thank you, brother. Well, God bless you, and coming up next on our program is

01:33:48

Ray Rhodes, another one of my favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Ray is a pastor at Grace Community Church of Dawsonville, Georgia.

01:33:59

He's also an author, and he has informed me that the two people who had the most impact on his life as a

01:34:09

Christian are John MacArthur and R .C. Sproul. And I just look forward to hearing about how

01:34:19

Ray has been blessed by Dr. Sproul's ministry right after these messages, so don't go away.

01:34:24

God willing, we'll be right back with Ray Rhodes to complete our tribute today to Dr. R .C. Sproul. Tired of box store

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01:40:01

Pastor Ray Rhodes of Grace Community Church of Dawsonville, Georgia. He's also an author, and he's been a guest a number of times on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and it's my honor and privilege to have you join our tribute to Dr.

01:40:12

R .C. Sproul. Thank you, Chris. How are you doing today, brother? Well, today is a sad day for me, not only because one of my modern -day heroes has departed from the earth, but today is the sixth anniversary of my wife's homegoing.

01:40:32

She went home to be with the Lord in 2011 on this day, December 15th, so today is definitely a sad day, but I have that sadness buffered with the joy of knowing that they are in the presence of Jesus Christ, and we cannot even fathom the joy that they are experiencing.

01:40:52

Amen, brother. That's exactly right. To be with Christ is far, not a little bit, better, right?

01:40:58

Yes, and if you could do anything to make sure your mouth doesn't move away from the phone because you seem to disappear there and get a little staticky, so I try to make sure that you speak loud and clear for us, brother.

01:41:11

All right. That's much better, much better. Well, tell us, Pastor Ray, how did you first become aware of the ministry of Dr.

01:41:19

R .C. Sproul? I was a student at New Oakland's Baptist Theological Seminary from 1985 until 1988, my first tour of duty at seminary, and I believe it was early of 88 when a friend of mine,

01:41:37

Dr. David Bailey, who authored the definitive biography of Roger Nicole, by the way, he had a book,

01:41:46

Chosen by God, by R .C. Sproul, and I read that book almost immediately, and to be honest with you,

01:41:56

Chris, it made me mad at first. That seems to be the story of a lot of people with A .W.

01:42:03

Pink and R .C. Sproul and certain Reformed writers because they start reading them before they are in harmony with that theology, and then the initial response is anger.

01:42:16

Are you there? I can't hear you, brother. Can you hear me,

01:42:23

Chris? Now I can hear you. Yeah, I'm sorry. Next time we talk I'm going to be in a better location. This was spur of the moment.

01:42:30

Okay. But, yes, I was given Chosen by God, and upset by the book initially, even though I'd been exposed to the doctrines of grace some years earlier, and started reading

01:42:45

Ephesians, so the thought was on my mind, but this book upset me, but my second reading through it cornered me.

01:42:54

I couldn't defeat its arguments. And, of course,

01:43:00

R .C. presents his truths in such winsome ways that I was fenced in, and I believed that it was true, not only because of the book, but also because of my reading through Ephesians.

01:43:17

You have to repeat your last statement because you were reading through Ephesians. Is that what you were saying? That's right.

01:43:23

I was reading. I'm going to try to move to a better location, see if that helps. Okay, I'll announce our email address while you're doing that.

01:43:30

If anybody wants to join us on the air with a question, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com

01:43:36

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

01:43:44

USA. I'm sorry, are you ready, Ray? Yeah, Ken, is this any better? It sounds a lot better right now.

01:43:51

Okay. Okay, yes, reading Chosen by God along with Ephesians began turning my heart more in tune with the doctrines of grace.

01:44:04

And then my friend gave me a copy of The Holiness of God. And I found myself floored by that book.

01:44:14

And it's teaching on God's greatness, God's holiness, God's purity,

01:44:19

God's transcendence, just the character of God. And I found myself so humbled by that book.

01:44:28

So that was my introduction to R .C. back in the 80's and it continued on and on and on.

01:44:35

Your description of the anger that you felt when you first read The Holiness of God reminded me of when

01:44:43

I, as a new Christian, and before coming to an understanding or belief in the doctrines of grace, in fact, when

01:44:51

I first heard about them, I just denounced them as being bizarre and weird and I even told my elders when they interviewed me for membership,

01:45:02

I said, I don't think I'm ever going to believe in that stuff. But the booklet that gave me the same reaction as The Holiness of God gave you was

01:45:15

George Whitefield's Letter to John Wesley on Election. And I got angry and I said, this stuff is true because Whitefield so beautifully pointed out in the scriptures that these teachings are true.

01:45:31

And my first reaction was, this is true, but it's horrible. This is true, but I don't like this.

01:45:36

This is true, but I hate it. But in about a month I said, this is true and I love it. Praise God. That's right.

01:45:43

And I think our initial reaction is because, I think Sproul mentioned that in Chosen by God, we as Americans especially are so used to the idea of democracy, and we want an equal vote on all matters, and to think of God as sovereign over all things, including our salvation, having graciously determined before the foundation of the world to save a vast number that no one can count, no one can number, of undeserving sinners, it initially at least flies in the face of our ideas of democracy,

01:46:25

I think. That's part of the issue. But like you said, as we read the scripture and grow in our understanding of the sweetness of that doctrine, it becomes increasingly beautiful to us, doesn't it?

01:46:38

Amen. And if you could, tell us some specific things about the life and ministry of Dr.

01:46:44

Sproul that really had a lasting impact on you and your ministry that lasts until today. Yeah, a few things that come to mind readily, the books of course, but I was able to attend a number of Ligonier conferences, and at some of those conferences

01:47:02

I had the opportunity to say hello at least in passing to Dr. Sproul and introduce my daughters on occasion.

01:47:10

But he also for a number of years hosted a pretty small pastors conference.

01:47:16

It was just the first year, in fact, I think there was only 50 people that were involved in that, and I had the privilege of attending that.

01:47:24

And I remember after one of those sessions he was teaching on art and beauty and order.

01:47:32

After one of the sessions I walked up to him with a friend of mine and asked him a question. And no one was really around, folks were dispersing and he walked us over to a piano and began playing a tune.

01:47:46

And he illustrated, he gave us his answer by way of musical illustration on the piano.

01:47:53

I don't remember the specifics of the question, but he was describing to us something about art and beauty and order.

01:48:00

And that was a very very warm memory of Dr.

01:48:06

Sproul. And he was very approachable. Every time I had the opportunity to speak to him he was very humble, very approachable, very gracious.

01:48:16

And would you agree, as I brought up to two of my previous guests, that one unique thing about him was making very deep things understandable, even for, and I hate the term lay people, but for lack of a better term, he really was able to articulate profound, sophisticated, complicated truths in a way that dummies like me and others with a similar

01:48:41

IQ would be able to comprehend. At least to an ability where we could really understand what he was talking about.

01:48:51

That's exactly right. In fact, I wrote about that today and how he could take lofty truths and make them understandable to a simple mind like mine.

01:49:03

And I would say John MacArthur and R .C. Sproul, probably the two nationally known pastor -preachers, theologians that have most shaped my thinking and understanding about the character of God and the

01:49:18

Scripture. Now, Chris, here's a good story that you'll relate to, I think. You know

01:49:23

Kevin Girard, my fellow elder. Oh yeah, he's worshipping with us here at Grace Baptist for about a year.

01:49:29

Yeah, when Kevin was on one of his tours to Iraq, he was reading table talk out in the desert, and someone snapped a photo of Kevin reading table talk, and sent that in to Ligonier, and it became a cover of one of the table talk editions.

01:49:48

Oh really? And when I was down for one of the conferences in Orlando, I took a copy of that to R .C.

01:49:59

and had him sign that for Kevin. So that was a great picture of Kevin Girard reading table talk in the desert of Iraq.

01:50:09

And Dr. Sproul remembered that picture, remembered that story, and we talked about that.

01:50:17

Well, please give my regards to Lieutenant Kevin Girard, Lieutenant Colonel Kevin Girard, because I am looking forward to,

01:50:26

I hope he hasn't changed his plans, and of course God can always change both of our plans, but he intends to be at the

01:50:31

G3 conference this January, and I am going to be, God willing, manning an exhibitor's booth there, and I would love to see him again.

01:50:40

Yeah, that'd be great. In fact, as of tomorrow, he'll be a full Colonel, so you'll have to salute him.

01:50:49

Yeah, that's another one of the great memories of him.

01:50:55

He was a profound teacher, had a wonderful sense of humor, and I think

01:51:00

I heard him say that the books he was most proud of that he had written were his children's books, and I think he wrote, what, three, maybe three or four children's books.

01:51:12

Well, you know, one of the things that I think he serves, one of the great ways that he serves as a wonderful example for all of us, especially perhaps in the

01:51:25

Reformed camp, is that although Dr. Sproul took very seriously theology and doctrine, and he would get upset when the

01:51:35

Gospel was being tampered with or diluted, or even when changes in the

01:51:41

Gospel were attempted to be made by those professing to be Christians, including the way that the

01:51:50

Gospel was being viewed as a lower rung of importance when the

01:51:59

Evangelicals and Catholics Together document came out, and he was very vociferously opposed to that. But at the same time, he had a biblical, ecumenical attitude.

01:52:11

And what I mean by that is when those folks who were his peers believed in the

01:52:19

Gospel and were very gifted at presenting and proclaiming and defending that Gospel, the other secondary and tertiary issues melted away in their weight of importance.

01:52:33

For instance, his great friendship, his renowned friendship with Dr. John MacArthur I think should serve as a great inspiration and example to us, because even though Dr.

01:52:44

MacArthur is a dispensationalist, and unlike R .C.,

01:52:50

Baptist, or Baptistic at the very least, and in fact they even debated on the issue of Credo vs.

01:52:58

Paedo -Baptism, he believed that those issues should never overwhelm the commonality that they had in the doctrines of Sovereign Grace and the

01:53:10

Gospel of Jesus Christ. And I think that we need to all learn from that. Yes, I agree with that.

01:53:15

I think their friendship is a model, and there's so many great tributes that have come in for R .C.,

01:53:21

Dr. Sproul, but MacArthur's was one of the best. I don't know if you had an opportunity to read that full tribute or not.

01:53:28

But their friendship, and much of that friendship, I think, was forged in the midst of controversy as they stood for the truth, stood for justification by faith alone, and in the midst of the

01:53:40

Evangelicals and Catholics together, controversy. So, yeah, I think they're a model with differences.

01:53:47

That debate is very both of them state their positions, their Baptism debate, they state their positions very strongly, and yet you have the feeling throughout, those guys love one another.

01:54:00

Yeah, I believe it's very apparent that they love one another. Well, before we go off the air,

01:54:06

I want to give you four minutes of uninterrupted time where you could just summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today, involving our beloved, departed hero,

01:54:18

Dr. R .C. Sproul. Yes. Again, I would go back to the character of God.

01:54:26

You know, as we read the Scripture, our understanding of God develops and grows, and God uses people,

01:54:36

God uses teachers and books to help us to see and learn more and more about the character of God.

01:54:44

And I think that was it for me with R .C. Sproul, is that through his books, through his teaching, he helped me to see and understand the

01:54:54

Scripture, that God is much bigger than I ever imagined. He is glorious beyond compare.

01:55:02

He is brilliant. He is magnificent. He is transcendent. And yet, he is present with his people.

01:55:11

And I think that is the legacy of Dr. Sproul, is again, taking the lofty truths about the character of God, His holiness especially, and making that understandable for the person in the pew, so that they, like he, like all of us, could better understand

01:55:34

God, better understand who God is, and therefore respond to God with worship to the glory of the

01:55:41

Lord. And I think that's the common theme in all of his books. I've got a shelf full, as you probably do as well, of his books.

01:55:50

They're all great teaching. They all underline, highlight that God is great, that God is sovereign.

01:55:59

And yet, God, so holy, and though we are so sinful, He, by His sovereign grace, is saving a vast multitude of undeserving sinners.

01:56:12

And He does that through the righteous life, the atoning substitutionary death of Jesus Christ on the cross, and His resurrection to all who, by God's grace, will repent of their sins and believe the gospel.

01:56:27

And so, like Luther before him in the 16th century, it's justification by faith alone, in Christ alone, by grace alone, to the glory of God alone, according to the

01:56:40

Scripture alone. And I think that's the legacy of R .C. And we will greatly miss him, but praise

01:56:48

God for the books and the tapes, the audio that will be available for my children to read and listen to for the generations to come.

01:56:58

Amen. Well, before we go off the air, I want to make sure that our listeners have all of your contact information.

01:57:06

I know that the website of Grace Community Church of Dawsonville, Georgia is gracechurchdawsonville .org.

01:57:15

That's gracechurchdawsonville .org. And do you have any other contact information, how people can get in touch with you, how people can get your books?

01:57:28

I know one valuable resource where people can purchase your books is cvbbs .com, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com.

01:57:35

And I know that Solid Ground Christian Books has published some of your work, so that's solid -ground -books .com,

01:57:42

solid -ground -books .com. Any other contact information? Yeah, mainly just getting in touch with me through the church website.

01:57:50

Some of our other sites are down right now. And scheduled for 2018 is a biography of Susanna Spurgeon with Moody Publishers, and so just listen in, look out for that.

01:58:03

I'm excited. In the process of writing that now, getting ready to submit the first draft to Moody, and we hope it will get in in 2018, but it could be a little later.

01:58:13

Well, I just want to tell all of those listening who are either listening live or perhaps later by the recording that will be archived, those of you who are closest to Dr.

01:58:26

R .C. Sproul, I want to let you know that I am praying for you. I want our listeners to pray for those who love

01:58:34

R .C. Sproul the most, who are most connected to his life, such as his wife, Vesta, and his children and grandchildren, his colleagues and employees, and so on, that the peace of God may overwhelm them during this time of grief and mourning, that they may realize what a privilege and honor and joy that they have received from having a close and special place in his life.

01:59:00

And for any of you listening who want to know more about the memorial service and everything else that you would like to find out about Dr.

01:59:10

R .C. Sproul, you can go to www .rcsproul .com www .rcsproul .com www .rcsproul

01:59:16

.com www .ligonier .org www .ligonier .org I hope you all have a safe and blessed and happy weekend, especially a

01:59:26

Christ -honoring Lord's Day and a very Merry Christmas season. And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater

01:59:37

Savior than you are a sinner. I hope to hear from many of you next week with your questions for our guests on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

01:59:46

I'm sorry we couldn't get to any of your questions today because of the time limitations, but please write in next week.

01:59:52

God bless you all, and we'll look forward to seeing your questions next week on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.