Answering He Gets Us

If I messed up, then Christ also messed up when he messed up.

No, Christ didn't mess up. You did. And the reason you did is because you're not looking at context.

Christians, the Beast, and Bad Hermeneutics

The reason is that Christians support the beast. That's it. Christians worship the beast. Most of them. Whose names were not written in the book of life. They worship the beast. The beast is the empire of Germanic tribes, which we call now West.

The beast exists in certain halls. Babylon is the church of Rome. That's the truth. That's a historical point. If you are subscribed to the dispensationalism, you cannot find the Son.

If you interpret the Bible using hermeneutics, using context, looking at it in its grammatical, literal interpretation, you can't be saved. He just said that. And his book says that. Welcome to Apologetics Live.

We're here to answer your questions and challenges about God and the Bible. Meet your hosts from Striving for Eternity Ministries, Andrew Rappaport, Dr. Anthony Silvestro, and Pastor Justin Pierce. We are live, Apologetics Live, here to answer your challenging questions about anything you have about God and the Bible.

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We've got something for everyone over there. Cole is saying that the StreamYard link is broken. It can't be broken because our guest got in, so you may need to refresh. I did set it up late. So, Cole, you may just need to refresh.

So if you want to join, refresh. I know that it's working because our guest got in here and was able to use that link. So, therefore, I know it works. Maybe it's just a problem with you, Cole. Just saying.

We'll see. He's pretty tech savvy. We'll see if he gets in here. So with that, just some housekeeping things that we have. We usually like to do an in-the-news section and different things. But what we're going to do is talk about some conferences instead.

So I'm going to bring our guest in first, Dr. Casey Butner. How are you, sir?

Man, I'm doing great. Thanks for the invite to be on the show again, Andrew.

So you are with First Baptist Church Orlando, correct? No?

Oh, I'm sorry. That's the church we're going to talk about. Oh, I'm sorry. I would have taken that as a compliment about 15 years ago, but not today.

Yeah. Well, let me put something on screen here. Got to love when they change the words. They changed it from share to present. So why don't you talk us through the conference you have?

Oh, man, I would love to. Thanks for putting that flyer up. We're hosting Phil Johnson, Justin Peters, and Susan Heck, December 10, 11, and 12. And we have the rest of the information on the front of our website you see there at the bottom, bbcwg .org.

So this conference is geared towards exposing worldliness that's creeping into the church and calling all Christians to stand upon sound doctrine. And when I was talking with Phil back at the Shepherds Conference, he said, this is my wheelhouse.

I would love to come. And so it's such an honor to be able to have Phil Johnson come. And the same with Justin Peters. He's been here before. Susan Heck has never. She's looking forward to coming as well.

And she'll be selling her books as well. So nevertheless, you know, I'm excited because this is an opportunity of a lifetime. We truly have an unprecedented amount of churches that are going woke or just embracing worldliness as a means to try and evangelize.

A lot of that, which we'll be talking about tonight. So nevertheless, these guys are going to be preaching towards these things and exposing them and giving us the scriptural solutions. Susan Heck will have main sessions with the women.

And then Phil Johnson and Justin will be preaching in main sessions where everybody is inside. The unique part about this conference is it's live inside and outside. So we have big screens outside. We're family integrated so families can come and they can worship outside.

They can watch the sessions live outside and they can see their children on the playground right there at the same spot. So it's a pretty cool campus here in Central Florida in the wintertime. So we have folks who are flying down already.

It's going to be a good time. Not only that, we have Classical Conversations homeschool groups that are going to be serving refreshments and snacks throughout the entire conference. So it's going to be good.

Yeah.

And so we have another conference to talk about. And that is a very important conference, I think, put on by Kootenai Community Church. And that is the cessationist conference. This is basically the way this conference came about was the fact that we're trying to get filming done for the film, the cessationist film.

And so what ended up happening was there were a number of speakers that still needed to be recorded. Their interviews needed to be recorded. Jim Osmond being one of them. And when they were going to come up to Jim's church and they asked, hey, can we just get John Samson to come up?

And that way they can save some money on doing the videos. And they ended up coming up with a great idea saying, why don't we just do a conference with all the speakers that still needed interviews? And that way that's extra footage for the film.

Great conference to have. So this is going to be November 18th up in Kootenai, Idaho. So this is northern Idaho. It will be the opposite of what Casey was just talking about. These are the extreme weathers.

But if you go to in November to Idaho, you will look forward to December in Florida. You can come fall out.

You can fall out. It's free for us. So come on down and enjoy a free conference. We'll feed you well.

Well, actually, this one's going to be free as well. Yeah. So I think they're just they're going to do a love offering to kind of offset the cost, I think, of the travel. But November 18th to the 20th.

You can you can see the details. You have. I'm speaking, Dan Phillips. I haven't spoken at conference with him in many years. Looking forward to being with him. Jim Osmond, who's the pastor of Kootenai Community Church.

John Rutherford is a pastor here in New Jersey. I've known him for many years. Outstanding man. He's he has been developing a lot of work on the personal Holy Spirit. John Samson, who I'll meet for the first time.

Justin Peters. I don't know who that guy is. I've heard his name somewhere, but he's going to be on with us tonight.

But he had to go preach somewhere.

Yeah, that's more important. And then Kevin Hay, who I have not met. So this is going to turn out to be a really good conference. I got to see the the speaking itinerary and it is hefty. So I'm looking forward to this conference.

It is going to be a lot of just great, great content. And I'm going to say this. I'll say this in the beginning of the show. We usually say what to look forward to in the next few shows. But I'm going to give you the rundown of the next few shows and let you know where we're kind of where we're headed.

Because I mentioned the conference and that has gotten some people discussing because there's some people who think that maybe this conference is divisive or whatnot, having a conference on cessationism.

Well, we're going to address that. So next week, I will not be on, but Anthony will have Dan back on. Dan Llewellyn, he dealt with prayer, the topic of prayer. That will be next week. But the week after that, October 27th, will be Jim Osmond, Justin Peters, myself, and Matt Slick to talk about cessationism and whether it is divisive to the body of Christ.

What is the biblical views? It is, I'm sure, going to be a very interesting topic. Then November 3rd, I'm going to have two ladies coming on. We're going to talk about feminism and is feminism enslaving women today?

So that's what we got coming up. I do have an interesting video that I found before we get started in our show, the show part that we're going to talk about the main stuff. I saw this, and I just couldn't help but to chuckle.

This is a woman who did a video saying if conservatives were like libs. Let's just watch and see. What would a conservative act like if they were acted like a liberal? Holy frosted again. Particles. Okay, so if you haven't seen, that was a complete ripoff of a liberal who basically did a—literally was that upset.

The liberal used all kinds of foul language. Not when RBG was hospitalized and not going to make it. Saying, you just have to wait until Trump is out. Hillary can get back in and help us. I thought that was hysterical.

So you sent me this video that we're going to start with. I'm not going to play the whole thing. The whole thing is 35 minutes. If you have specific sections you want, I'll let you do that. We could go to specific time spots, but I think the beginning of this gives us enough.

It does. I want to let you, before I put the video up, if you could set the stage for what we're about to see. This is at a church. This is First Baptist Church of Orlando. This was during what? This was a special—this was like a youth event?

Was that what this was? No, sir.

Well, it sure seemed like it. Oh, man. You know, to set it up, it's real easy to know what should be happening during a worship service. We worship God. We preach the word. And that's just not happening at First Orlando.

And, you know, according to the conference we're having, 1 Timothy 4 says,. And so if you're going to point out in context those things that are not pleasing to the Lord, then we should talk about these things and expose what is happening.

Unfortunately, you'll see within just the first few minutes that which is not preaching, the exact opposite of preaching. And if you are void of the Holy Spirit, if you're void of the ability to exegete the word of God and let the word of God work in people's souls, then you've got to substitute it with something else.

Here you're going to see humor. You're going to see just outright grossness, if you ask me. To put this on the stage on a Sunday morning worship service and call it preaching and call it a worship service, there literally should be no one left at First Baptist Orlando.

I don't know why a single person sat through this, but there's three services now going on with what you're fixing to show.

Well, I think we could know why, but we'll get to who does the ushering and things like that in a moment. Let's just play the beginning of this clip. And just remember, this is Sunday morning worship service.

Sunday morning worship service, folks. And this is what you go to church to hear.

We're going to have some fun today. I got jokes already popping in my head right now. It's going to be awesome. We're going to have some fun. We're going to laugh. Some people think that you shouldn't laugh in church.

My response to that is always, what good father doesn't want to hear his children's laughter in his house? So we get to laugh. It's going to be fun. I was hanging out with Pastor David earlier or yesterday.

He took me out to eat. It was awesome. What was that place? Hooters. Oh, that's right. It was amazing. Okay.

First off, I don't know if this guy actually knows David there because he's kind of hesitated, like he was trying to remember the guy's name. So I don't know if this comedian was brought in just for this, but Sunday morning, you're going to open up with talking about the fact that the pastor took you to a bar restaurant known for women poorly dressed.

And you think that's funny. In fact, I think the pathetic thing is, did you hear the audience laugh?

Yes. And that's what is left there. Those who are wanting entertainment.

I mean, when you sent this to me, I think right at this point, I'm like, do I have to hear more? I really didn't want to, because right at this point, it is so inappropriate. I mean, absolutely inappropriate to be talking about a restaurant like Hooters on a Sunday morning.

I was going to say at a pulpit, but they don't have one.

He just literally brought an entire worship service, which should be worshiping Jesus Christ and his purity and his holiness down to the depths of sin and depravity. So everybody's mind is going towards that, which is sensual and even sexual.

And he's going in the opposite direction right up front. He showed his cards from the very beginning and it doesn't get any better. In fact, he doesn't quote any scripture beyond what you'll see in this next couple minutes of the clip.

And it's just off the jokes for the rest of the time. He's absolutely making God's house into a mockery. It's awful. I couldn't believe it. And I felt the same way. I couldn't listen to the whole thing, but the introduction tells it all.

Yeah.

So we'll play a little bit more of it. I'm not playing all of it, but yeah. So let's hear a little bit more. I'm just playing. I didn't go. I went by myself, man. So he just said that the pastor went by himself and people are laughing at that.

So, you know, what's he doing there? He's like, I'm spiritual. I wouldn't go to a place like that. The pastor would. So do you know, does he actually know the Pastor David or no?

You know, I don't know. I think he's been there before, but it wouldn't surprise me. Most, you know, times you're going to, you would go out to eat with a guest speaker and spend some time together. You know that.

So I wouldn't be surprised if they don't. So I don't know the answer to be honest with you.

Yeah. But it's not like he's from that church or anything like that. No. Right. So, because if that's the case, I mean, what it would say to me is that here you got a church. So what they did is they brought in comic relief for us in place of the preaching of the word of God.

Yeah. So, I mean, the people in this church, they have nothing because they're getting, they're going to get this instead of, you know, God's word. Like, is there any comparison? None. I mean, so we were going to do a whole show on the abuses of church, you know, and thing of the pulpit, but we're going to, I want to focus a little bit on this and then we're going to, we're going to spend and folks, I'm going to encourage you to share this out now because we're going to spend a good part of this episode going through this new campaign that we see going on.

He gets us. If you haven't seen it, we're going to play clips of their, their commercials. And I'm just going to say, if you think that what we heard so far with this, Michael guy in first Orlando is bad.

I got news for you. The show is going to get worse, like much worse. I'm just saying it's, it's not good. All right. Let's let's hear comedy. So we're going to laugh. It's going to be great.

Here's a cool book. So there's three verses of scripture. It's going to apply to what I'm going to talk about today. There's three verses of scripture. If you want to write them down, I highly recommend you write them down because later on when you read them, I think they're going to pop in a new way.

Okay. Before he gets to it, before he gets those passages killing me, I know what I want to say.

I'm going to let you, so what were you going to say? There's three verses of scripture that apply to what I want to say. I mean, that's the epitome of using God's word to accomplish the means that you have.

It's the opposite of exegetical preaching. The difference between deductive reasoning and inductive reasoning is so beyond their comprehension that it kills me. And so, I mean, the very basis of preaching is not taking an idea that we have as if we know more than God and we know better than God on how to communicate truth to people and then use the Bible to accomplish our goals.

It's like we're God. So basically, again, he's laid his cards out on the table. We can see exactly what he is and what he's doing. And this is who Danny and David have brought to the preaching platform on a Sunday morning.

You know, comedy. Okay. If you're going to do something, do it on a different entertaining. If you're going to do fellowship or whatever, you know, something like that. Have fun as Christians, whatever.

There's nothing against that. But this is supposedly preaching. Okay.

But here's the thing. You're bringing out the fact that he is using scripture for his own means. Yes. Well, but I see, I don't see a problem with that. You know why? I don't think he's actually going to get the scripture right in the first place.

I don't think he's going to have any of these passages in context, but let's give it a shot and see. Michael, take it away.

As a result of what we talked about today, that's pretty cool. He's playing with the microphone stand. So the three verses are Jeremiah 29, 11. You write it down, sir. You're not writing. You just go memory.

Okay. That's fine. Roll with that.

Just roll with it. Okay. Jeremiah 29. I hate the guy. Why does the guy have to write it down? It's the most quoted verse out of context in the world. I mean, why would he have to, I mean, most people know Jeremiah 29, 11, but in case you don't allow me to read this to you and let's see, I just want to see if he's going to have this in context.

I, I, something tells me he's not, but this is what Jeremiah 29, 11 says. Well, I know the plans I have for you declares the Lord plans for welfare and not for evil to give you a future and a hope. That sounds so great.

I bet he's not going to continue reading in the context, say versus 17 and 18. Thus says the Lord of hosts behold, I'm sending to you on them, sword famine, pestilence. I will make them like vile figs that are so rotten.

They can't be eaten. I will pursue them with sword famine, pestilence, and make them a horror to all the nations of the earth to be a curse, a terror, a hissing, a reproach among the nations where I have driven them.

I bet. He's not going to read that into the context. I bet. He's also not going to ask the question, who is this written for? Because verse 10 tells us verse 10 for, thus says the Lord, when 70 years are complete for Babylon, I will visit you and I will fulfill to you my promise and bring you back to this place.

We, we know who this is written to and it's not us today. I'm sorry, folks. If your favorite life verse is, is this Jeremiah 29, 11, you are out of context. It is. It's just this. The reality is when you look at that verse, it was written to those who live through the Babylonian captivity.

And that's not you. I know, I know pastor Casey, you think I look old enough to have actually lived through the, but I'm not,.

I'm really not. Okay. You look like an ad kind of guy to me. Yeah.

I mean, so does Jeremiah 29, 11 have something for us? Yes. It shows that God was faithful to the Israelites when they were in 70 years of captivity, that God kept his promise. And we can, we can know that he will keep his promises to us, but let's see what, what else he has to say.

That's what I would do too. I'm like, I'm going to be writing stuff. But anyway, so Jeremiah 29, 11, and then there is John 10, 27. That's a good one. Okay. John 10,.

27. Now here's the thing. I did watch this whole thing. And I can honestly tell you after he refers to these passages, Casey, he never got back to them. No. And so I never quite knew how this fit in, but here's another verse.

John 10, 27, my sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me. Hmm. Um, I don't think that means what he thinks that means. Yeah. To quote one of our friends. Yeah. Because he's going to, he's going to later on, try to give a gospel presentation, which is just really bad.

Um, and so, but I think what he's trying to say is that if we just, if we're listening for the voice of God, or, you know, if we hear him whisper to us, then, you know, I think there's a, I think there's a good book.

Uh, Oh, that's right. God doesn't whisper by Jim Osmond. He needs a copy of that to realize that we're not going to hear an audible voice of the Lord. Yes. It's just saying, but let's see what else we have.

Then. Revelations 3, 20. Okay. Revelation 3, 20 is his next one. And some of you already know that passage, another passage used out of context, behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him.

And he, with me, um, that passage has nothing to do with Jesus knocking on the door of your heart. He's not waiting to see if you'll let him in. Right? So this is, I'm not even going to go beyond this.

I, if you guys want to talk to yourself, I'll try to put the links in the show notes. You can, you can watch that at your, I can't even say leisure. You know that. So go ahead.

I must give a plug for our church. I, I'm so impressed, especially with our Wednesday night crowd. Um, we do inductive Bible study on steroids and it's written up in this 3d Bible study sheet. And if you go to the front of our website, bbcwg .org, you can download this, um, for free.

And if you email me, I will send you as large of a stack of these cars, but it's basically how to dig deeper into God's word and to probe the text, to extract the truth, to find out what it means. And then you can apply it to the circumstances.

Once you have seen what it is in context from the author to the audience, and then once you extract the truth and you've interpreted it correctly, then you learn how to apply it. So you've got to move it across the pond.

So to speak, you've got to see what was said and done in context and their culture and their century and extract it and then move it to, um, your context. So nevertheless, our people absolutely love doing 3d Bible study.

And these cards are available to your audience for free as well. So I just want to encourage and promote inductive Bible study. So this card is basically inductive Bible study on steroids and we enjoy it.

And our people are not fooled by these one-off verses that are just quoted once. And then the speaker, the motivational speaker is off to the races on accomplishing their own goal at the expense of the Lord's day, taking the word of God and using it for their own purposes.

I'm, I'm literally ashamed of what first Baptist Orlando is doing. It made a complete U-turn. Yeah, it's, it's pretty pathetic.

Um, Bill says to me, Andrew Rappaport, why shouldn't, why should we expect the unregenerate to act like regenerated? Well, that's a good point you make there because let's talk a little bit more about this church.

First Baptist Orlando. Now you've done some episodes with Justin Peters on, on his dedicate podcast, uh, about first Baptist and their, their praising of homosexuality. They had a worship service when there was the shooting in the gay bar and by a Muslim.

And they ended up just ushering them all into heaven. Every single one, they gave all the names and did a service for them. But now they have a new thing they're trying to do to reach out to the homosexual community.

Uh, they believe it seems that the best way to reach people is to invite them into church, not to sit in a pew, but to do what Casey? Yeah,.

To serve and to put their first Baptist church shirt on them, put them in the places of service that are visual, that are seen like as in praise and worship, as in greeting, as in baptizing, as in being baptized.

And the list goes on and on and on. It's very sad, but, um, this is the ministry that they're embracing the LGBTQ inclusive, uh, approach. And, um, there's a lot of training going on behind the scenes to implement these things.

So there are still good people at first Baptist Orlando that may not, um, believe perhaps what, um, the prior episodes have exposed. They may not, um, really truly see it yet, but the truth is rising to the surface.

It's own display. The facts are right in front of their face. And I'm really encouraging folks to step back and look objectively at what's going on. You, you have to think and look at the scriptures rather than just believe what you're hearing, because all of this is so entertaining.

It's, it's, it, if you fall into being amused, then you'll be amused right to sleep. And your missions money is not going to what you think it is within the Southern Baptist convention through first Baptist Orlando.

The worship there is corrupted. The preaching is corrupted. I don't know how to be any clearer, but the facts are right here in front of us for them to put a comedian in the place of a preacher is further evidence of their ministry motives and the direction that they're going.

I think the thing is when you are going to encourage anyone to come into church, any unregenerate person, and you're going to have them come into church and then say, we're going to put you in a position where you're the face of the church.

You're the first person people are going to see when they come in the church. I mean, you don't want an unregenerate person serving in the church. They're, they're the ones that need to hear the gospel when you put them in and they're serving.

And then where's that going to stop? When you have some people who are not members of the church who are not looking to, um, to get saved and they want to be inquire, are you going to say no, now that they've been serving as ushers?

Well, no, now they're going to be up on stage serving inquire. Yeah. Where, where does it end up stopping? And this is the abuse we, we end up seeing in the church. We see that we're talking specifically, we started from the pulpit.

Now we're talking about the abuse that's goes on within the, the really in, in the allowing unregenerate people, but even worse, those who are outwardly against Christianity to serve, to serve in church.

Yep. Yep. Now I did not prepare you for this next one. I know we want to spend a lot more time this in this episode, talking about the, he gets us campaign because I didn't know much about this. I found out about it today.

We've been doing research all day on this and, and freaked out at it, told it mentioned it to you. And you were like, yeah, I've seen these commercials. And so we want to spend time there, but this, this, I know I'm going to apologize to you, Casey.

I know that this is going to trigger you. If you thought the comedian was bad, this is through this next video. Let me set it up three. It literally, the title of the video is three pastors and a beer.

Okay. Three pastors and a beer it's set up. It looks like it's a bar. Okay. The three pastors that we're going to see here. Now this is in, this is Jeff Durbin, Doug Wilson, and Toby something there. Now I know some people ask questions a couple of weeks ago about Doug Wilson.

I, on this one, I think you're going to play it. I will say, if you have, if you have young children, you may want to have them leave for a little bit. That is really depressing that I have to say that when three pastors are speaking.

Okay. I'm just giving the warning. I'll give you your word. It's not a very long clip is it's going to be less than two minutes. It's very pathetic that I have to set that up and say something like that.

When you have three pastors get together. And now this is part of the end abortion. So you want to go and watch something about ending abortion. And this is what you end up hearing. You decide if you think this is appropriate language for a pastor.

All right. Ready to fight now. Okay. All right. So, so let's talk. So, um, should we force women to wax men's testicles? Yeah. The look on your face says it all. Yeah. That is what a pastor wants to sit down, have a discussion with two other pastors.

And that is how he wants to start a conversation. And, and this is part of his end abortion now campaign. How do we win on ending abortion? Um, is, is anyone in the world going to take a church serious when that's what they want to discuss, man?

I mean, should anyone in the church take that? I mean, look, I'll, I'll work for all, you know, uh, honestly, it's not the right word. I'm trying to think of the word, but you know, for exposure or disclosure, I should say, uh, I do know Jeff Durbin.

I don't know either of the other two men I know of Doug Wilson, very little. Uh, I think that Doug Wilson was kind of set off by that. Actually, you know, I'll just, I, you know, let me just play a little bit so you can see Doug's kind of response to this.

Is this a trick question?

We'll start at the right way.

So he's saying that is starting at the right way. And, and Doug at least seems like, okay, I don't know how to go here. Okay. So why what's, what's wrong if, if, and so they actually, he wants to continue with that discussion.

And I was just flabbergasted. I now granted, I didn't watch past this. Um, Jeff is a, is a, a really nice guy, really smart guy. Okay. So me bringing this up is not saying that everything he does is wrong, but we were, we were working on doing a show of abuses we see within church.

And this is not, well, it's in a bar, I guess, not a church, but it's, it's a ministry. Casey, I know I shock you with this. Yeah. Yeah. Your thoughts. Is this appropriate discussion for three pastors to be having, and then record this discussion and put it up for folks to watch.

The first thing that I would say is that he's not living above reproach on this. And his very calling is at stake. What is he doing there? There's no context. There's no place for this course, jesting and joking.

Um, another thing that comes to mind is Ephesians four 26. Um, I'm sorry, down to see if he's just four 29, let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only in such a word that is good for edification, according to the need of the moment.

So that we'll get grace to those who here do not grieve the Holy spirit. I think it, it's definitely garbage. There's no reason why I should be talking about these things. And if you cannot say it around children, then you don't need to be saying it.

If you cannot edify those who are hearing, that is just terrible. So I would, I would simply ask him your calling. My friend is being called into question by such gross communication. What preacher does this?

And I to agree with you, smart guy, brilliant on a street with apologetics, um, and able to debate anybody, even in the court of law. And, uh, you can learn things from listening to him, uh, debate on the street, good apologetics techniques.

But, um, he has a worldview, an end times worldview that enables him to, um, utilize these types of means that, which I do not share and do not think it's biblical.

Yeah. Now, Drew is saying here that, uh, they're talking about a news story. I, you know, I, I'm, you know, and some people ask him what's the context to be honest with you. I don't care what the context is.

Um, here's, look, this is, this is from an unsaved person putting a comment in here. Uh, Dr. Joel Duff, who you guys may have seen comments when he was on with, on Jason, but he's saying stupor and Wilson are shock jocks of the pastor theologians.

And I wonder if that's what they're trying to know. I, like I said, it's, it's Jeff who's asking the question, but I just, you know, it's totally inappropriate.

I think. Oh yeah. I mean, consider this in Colossians three, five, therefore consider the members of your body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, greed, which amounts to idolatry for, because of these things, the wrath of God will come upon the sons of disobedience.

And so you're actually, as a Christian, Jeff, you're entering into a category that God calls, uh, that God labels the area in which his wrath pours down upon. When you bring people's minds towards the immoral area.

And you stir that up. It's a technique that is not a biblical, uh, at the shock technique. That's not what Christ did. It's not what we should be doing. And we should not be bringing people's mind towards the immoral.

You're right. This gets me stirred up and I can't stand it. And I think that this is a, a, a holy, um, anger towards these types of things. And I'm telling you, Jeff needs to be corrected on this. He has a large audience and he needs to be taking people to the throne of God in an upward direction, not in a downward direction in these directions.

So I would say, Jeff, if you think I'm wrong, reach out to me and correct me.

Yeah, no, I, I agree. I mean, look, here's some comments. You know, Cynthia says, very sad, Andrew, Jeff Durbin, literally cursed during a sermon. Um, and he did, he, you know, he had in a sermon, he had set it up.