Should Christians Ever Pray Imprecatory Prayers?

How would you respond to someone who says, like, look, that's people who were inspired by the Holy Spirit. But either that or, you know, Jesus is God, obviously. So so they're allowed to do it. They're allowed to pray things like that.

But then we're not. Morning. The following message may be offensive to some audiences. These audiences may include but are not limited to professing Christians who never read their Bible. Sissies, sodomites, men with man buns, those who approve of men with man buns, man bun enablers, white knights for men with man buns, homemakers who have finished Netflix but don't know how to meal plan, and people who refer to their pets as fur babies.

Your discretion is advised.

The Gospel of Salvation and the Coming Judgment

People are tired of hearing nothing but doom and despair on. The message of Christianity is that salvation is found in Christ alone. And any who reject Christ, therefore forfeit any hope of salvation, any hope of heaven.

The issue is that humanity is in sin and the wrath of almighty God is hanging over our head. They will hear his words. They will not act upon them. And when the floods of divine judgment, when the fires of wrath come, they will be consumed and they will perish.

God wrapped himself in flesh, condescended and became a man, died on the cross for sin, was resurrected on the third day, has ascended to the right hand of the father where he sits now to make intercession for us.

Jesus is saying there is a group of people who will hear his words. They will act upon them. And when the floods of divine judgment come in that final day, their house will stand.

Introducing the Question of Imprecatory Prayers

Welcome to Bible Bash, where we aim to equip the saints for the works of ministry by answering the questions you're not allowed to ask. We're your host, Harrison Kerrig, and Pastor Tim Mullett. And today we'll seek to answer the age old question, should Christians ever pray in precatory prayers?

Now, this is a funny topic, Tim, because, you know, I mean, not even maybe even a year and a half ago, I'm not even sure that I knew what an imprecatory prayer even was. I had never even heard of them before, which is which was, you know, mostly my own fault.

If I had just read through the Bible and really taken my Bible study seriously, I probably would have figured out what they were. I mean, I think part of it is I knew I knew there were, you know, in the Old Testament, especially there were certain parts of certain parts of the Old Testament that seemed to be very, like, very, you know, at times, you know, graphic, obviously.

But then also the Israelites often called on God to basically judge all of their enemies. Right. And so I knew that was there, but then I didn't know that it had like its own its own, you know, category, basically its own like title that we can call these things by.

And so, you know, I learned I learned that they had a name when I was in college, when I was going to school. And, you know, it was just something that I think it really they really fascinated me because here we were learning about something as we were going through our Old Testament.

It was probably Old Testament survey that we were going through this. And, you know, our our professor brought up imprecatory prayers. And, you know, we for about a day, maybe a day and a half, we had discussions about what do we what do we do with this part of the Bible?

And I just found it so interesting because I had I had never even heard people talk about this kind of stuff before. And and the very few times I did hear people hear Christians talking about imprecatory type prayers, especially like in the Psalms, it was mostly just trying to not have to explain explain them or what their purpose was and just trying to get out of that.

And, you know, not necessarily always apologize, but just try and not have to talk about it, basically, because it's icky or, you know, whatever the reasoning was. And so I'm interested to have this conversation.

They sound mean, right? Yeah, they do. I mean, some of them are they sound pretty mean, huh? But it is an interesting conversation that I'm looking forward to having tonight, because I think this probably is one of the aspects of the Old Testament that it seems like a lot of times it's just mostly skipped over entirely and you just hope no one brings it up, right?

Yeah, most people don't want to deal with the reality of the kind of prayers that are in the Psalms, but then not only the Psalms, Jesus also is known for making some imprecatory prayers and you see them throughout the New Testament, too.

So the primary example is in the Psalms, but then most people don't really pay attention that well to a lot of the New Testament stuff. But then, yeah, when push comes to shove, most people are going to lean on the love your enemies kind of passages and not really have a great explanation for how to harmonize these things.

Defining Imprecatory Prayer

Yeah. So in having this conversation and trying to answer the question, should Christians ever pray imprecatory prayers? It'd probably be good to start off, you know, for the people who were like past Harrison, you know, Harrison two years ago, who didn't even know what an imprecatory prayer was.

Why don't we just start with defining what even is an imprecatory prayer?

Yeah, well, that's a forgivable error because it is kind of a word that isn't found in the Bible so far as I can see. And so just not knowing that term is not make you guilty of some sort of scandalous sin along those lines.

But then a good example of this might be Psalm 109. And it's a little bit long, but I think it may be helpful just to read it and get a feel for what an imprecatory prayer sounds like. But then when you're thinking about imprecatory prayers in general, they're just prayers that are going to invoke judgment or calamity on a person.

So Psalm 109 to the Choir Master, a Psalm of David. Be not silent, O God of my praise, for the wicked and deceitful mouths are open against me, speaking against me with lying tongues. They encircle me with words of hate and attack me without cause.

So he's basically just starting out with the sins of others against him. Right. They encircle me with words of hate, attack me without cause. Return for my love. They accuse me, but I give myself to prayer.

So they reward me evil for good and hatred for my love. He says, appoint a wicked man against him. So this is where the imprecatory part comes in. So he's explained the situation. Here's the imprecatory part.

And it kind of goes on and on. So appoint a wicked man against me. Let an accuser stand at his right hand. When he has tried, let him come forth guilty. Let his prayer be counted as sin. May his days be few.

May another take his office. May his children be followless and his wife a widow. May his children wander about and beg, seeking food from the ruins they inhabit. May the creditor seize all that he has.

May strangers plunge or plunder the fruits of his toil. Let there be none to extend kindness to him, nor any pity to his fatherless children. May his posterity be cut off. May his name be blotted out in the second generation.

May the iniquity of his fathers be remembered before the Lord. And let not the sin of his mother be blotted out. Let let them be before the Lord continually. So his sense let them be before the Lord continually that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth.

For he did not remember to show kindness, but pursued the poor, the needy and the broken hearted to put them to death. He loved to curse like curses come upon him. He did not delight in blessing. May it be far from him.

He clothed himself with cursing as a coat. May it soak his body like water, like oil into his bones. May it be like a garment that he wraps around him, like a belt that he put puts on every day. May this be the reward of my accusers from the Lord of those who speak evil against my life.

But you, oh my God, deal on my behalf for your name's sake, because of your steadfast love is good. Deliver me. For I am poor and needy and my heart is stricken within me. I am gone like a shadow at evening.

I am shaken off like a locust. My knees are weak through fasting. My body has become gaunt with no fat. I am an object of scorn to my accusers. When they see me, they wag their heads. Help me, oh Lord, my God.

Save me according to your steadfast love. Let them know that this is your hand. You, oh Lord, have done it. Let them curse, but you will bless. They arise and are put to shame, but your servant will be glad.

May my accusers be clothed with dishonor. May they be wrapped in their own shame as a cloak. With my mouth, I will give great thanks to the Lord. I will praise him in the midst of the throne. For he stands at the right hand of the needy one to save him from those who condemn his soul to death.

So there's an example of them. That's funny. There's probably like three or four different places in there that I thought it was going to stop. And then he just kept, he kept going, man, he kept going.

So, so that sounds pretty mean to pray. It's very detailed and specific. Yeah, it was oddly, it was oddly specific. And, and I mean, this was like, this was not like a, uh, this was a premeditated prayer, premeditated prayer, man.

He had it knocked out. He had it, he had like, um, yeah. So, so that's like, okay. So you've given us a basic, um, definition of an imprecatory prayer. You've read an example of one, give us that, give us that definition one more time, Tim.

Yeah. I mean, a purgatory prayer essentially, if it's just, uh, it's just a prayer that invokes judgment or calamity or curses upon one's enemy, essentially. Okay.

That's what it is. So, so what, what is the purpose of a prayer like that? Because that seems to, I'm sure there's, there's probably, you know, a lot of people that are, that are confused to, uh, when they come across these kinds of passages to think, you know, the, um, the, the God they've read about in the new Testament, um, is the same God who's saying, Hey, pray prayers like this.

And even, I mean, you know, if, if you understand what the Psalms are, I mean, these are, these are like, these are songs that they're singing, the Israelites are singing and worship to God. So, so they've got like, I mean, the one that you read, it almost sounds like a, almost like a diss track in some ways, you know, um, and, and they're supposed to be singing that to the Lord.

And so, so what is the, what is the purpose of, of praying prayers like that? And even, and even singing them in a corporate gathering together?

Imprecatory Prayer as Justice and Vindication

Sure. Well, um, maybe it's helpful to point out that this isn't just an Old Testament phenomenon. Okay. So, you know, as you're thinking about like, what is the purpose behind these things, there's obviously different kinds of passages, like there's, there's, um, you know, most notably, you're going to find Psalms like that in the Old Testament.

And that's where most people are familiar with this concept. So in precatory prayers or in precatory Psalms, most people are familiar with it at that level. And then, so you have those kinds of passages and then you have in your, um, in the, in the New Testament, you have Jesus who basically is saying, you know, love your enemies, right?

So you have all the love your enemy passages do, do good to those who persecute, um, do good to those who persecute you. And despite food use you, uh, you know, if your enemy hungers, feed him, if you thirst, give him drink for, and so doing you reap calls of fire upon his head.

So you have those kinds of passages. You have Jesus saying, you know, father, forgive them for they know not what they do. Right. So you have, you have the love your enemies passages, and then you seem to have these, you know, uh, praying judgment upon your enemies kind of passages.

And then you're trying to figure out some way to harmonize them. And your question is, you know, why are they there? Why are they there? Then they, before I say give, give an answer to that, just, you might want to think about like just how often these kinds of things actually show up.

Uh, so for instance, like in Matthew 23, 13, Jesus says, what do you scribes and Pharisees hypocrites for you shut the kingdom of heaven against men for you need to go in yourself, nor you suffer, um, those who are entering to go in, I mean, that's a prayer that's pronouncing judgment on those, the scribes and the Pharisees with some pretty harsh language.

And so Jesus is known for that. Um, you know, of, of Judas, uh, Jesus essentially says, you know, um, what did that man, it'd be better that, um, he had never been born. Right. So, so Jesus commonly pronounces woe upon, you know, different, uh, false teachers or, um, you know, those who are seeking to, um, betray him in that way.

Uh, first Corinthians 16, 12, um, if any man doesn't love Lord Jesus, let him be anathema essentially this Paul. So let him be accursed. Um, yeah, Galatians, you might think about Galatians if, you know, we, or an angel from heaven preached any other gospel to you than what you've heard preached, uh, let him be accursed essentially.

Um, you know, Paul talks about, um, in Galatians five at the end, you know, that, um, he wishes that those who, the Judaizers would essentially be, um, emasculated for troubling them. Um, uh, second Timothy four 14, Paul talks about Alexander, the coppersmith.

He says, Alexander, the coppersmith did me much evil. The Lord reward him according to his works. Okay. And then, you know, I'm sure that you're familiar with a revelation, uh, where the saints in revelation are saying, how long ago, Oh Lord, Oh, holy and true.

Until you exercise judgment upon the inhabitants of the earth, uh, essentially they're murderers, the one who beheaded them. So, you know, part of this is like, when you're thinking about this category of imprecatory prayers, it's, um, there there's different realities that a person has to hold in their head all at once.

And there's different lines of thought in the Christian life. And if you, you press one line of thought in one direction too far, you're going to get, um, you're going to get some problems and you press it another way.

You're going to get other problems. But like the idea though, is that a Christian should, um, love justice. Okay. So like there's this, there's this concept of justice needs to be done and Christians are to love, uh, justice.

And part of the purpose of the Precon imprecatory prayers is it's not just about like vengeance in the role, if it makes sense, so it's not just about like, like personal vindictiveness. Um, um, that a person is praying.

So it's not just like someone did me wrong. Therefore I'm mad at them. Okay. Okay. And I want them to be punished because, um, you know, I personally am sinfully angry at them and can't seem to get over it.

So it's not about that. What it's about is it's about God's purposes being done in the world. And, you know, one of the things that we read, um, and it may have been, um, you know, easy to pass over when we were reading it, um, in Psalm 109, but, um, essentially he said, um, you know, Psalm 109, 21, but you, Oh God, my Lord deal on my behalf.

And now notice what he says. It says, deal on my behalf for your name's sake, because your steadfast love is good. Deliver me. So, you know, um, David essentially is the King and he's God's representative.

And when his enemies are, uh, triumphing over him and accusing him, like they were messing with God's plan, you know, in a very significant way there. Okay. So when Jesus, when, when David is saying, you know, Lord deal with your accusers for your name's sake, he's not saying deal with your, my accusers for my name's sake, he's saying deal with my accusers for your name's sake, meaning you had purposes in setting me up as King.

And when my, if my enemies triumph over me, then that's going to call into question your promises towards me and your protection of your people and your plan for your people. And so a lot of these imprecatory prayers are not meant to be just personal acts of vindictiveness.

Uh, what they are is they're about God's priorities and God's kingdom come and his will be done. And so when Paul was looking at like the Galatians, um, being troubled by the Judaizers and he's saying, I wish they were emasculated.

He's not saying I'm just so personally mad at them for them being mean to me. He's looking at them and he's saying, Lord, like deal with them for your name's sake, because I love these people. Like, I love the people they're harming.

Okay. And I care about them and I want them to be protected from this. And I want them to believe the true gospel and to believe what's right. So the, so these, um, purpose of these are about like justice being done, but God being vindicated about his character being vindicated and about his purposes advancing in the world, if that makes sense.

Yeah. So, um, so it's basic, so it's not like a, Hey, I'm, I'm praying this to try and convince God to get back at this person for me, right. Um, it's kind of like, uh, as you were explaining that I was thinking of this song, maybe you've heard it before, Tim, by outcasts.

Um, I think, I think it's called roses and you know, there, there's one part of, it's a very vulgar song, so, you know, I won't admit it then.

No, I can't remember if I, I listened to some rap back in the day playing basketball, but I don't, I don't know.

Well, and this song, you know, the basic, I think the, if I remember right, the premise of the song is, is basically you have, he's singing about a girl who's like, just, just like kind of crazy and, uh, self absorbed and, and only cares about herself and thinks she's all that.

And, um, and part of the song, he basically has this whole section where he describes like a very, a very detailed, you know, I hope, I hope she's driving on her way to the club and putting on her makeup on looking in the mirror, and then she swerves off into a dish and a ditch and crashes, you know, and, and he says it all in like this really fast, like it's not to the beat of the song.

It's not to any rhythm that he's done. It's really not even to a rhythm. He's just saying it all as fast as he can, trying to cram in as many details and many bad things that happened to her as possible.

And that's supposed to be what makes it funny. But then, but, and so he's saying this like, obviously terrible thing about someone that, that he's like wanting to happen to them. And the reason it's terrible is because, uh, he's, he's wanting to be vindicated basically.

Right. And so you're saying, you're saying like he, he, I guess you could say in a sense, he is praying an imprecatory prayer there, but he's, he's praying it selfishly for his, you know, for his own gain.

And what you're saying is, Hey, no, we're, we're supposed to do the opposite of what outcasts did in their song, right? We need to, we need to, um, uh, you know, like, like when they're praying these prayers, they're praying it as like, uh, um, you know, vindicate yourself Lord.

Right. Right.

And that's, that's the main, you know, if you, if you get anything from this, the main distinction that is to be made is that like when, when people think about imprecatory prayers, the only context they have for thinking about this kind of thing is some kind of self-centered, um, selfish, uh, you know, just petty vengeance kind of thing.

So they picture like a petty tyrant who basically just, you know, someone hurt their feelings or did something mean to him. And then, and then, you know, as you read, reading through David's list of things, like you're tempted to view it in that way, as if he's just some petty tyrant, right.

And everyone's being mean to him and, you know, abusing him. And, and then he's just praying that, you know, God do these extreme exorbitant things to them in response. And like, that's, that's just not the way to read what's actually happening.

Righteous Anger Versus Sinful Anger

Uh, so, you know, as you, as you're reading through the Bible, one of the things to realize is that God wants us to love our enemies and do good to those who persecute us and despitefully use us. And so there's like a, there's a personal victim, like personal, like vendetta kind of category that I think most people, that's the only experience they have in life is some sort of personal vendetta kind of category.

And then, you know, when, um, like moving a little bit beyond that, then we also seem to have a category for like a very fierce kind of protectiveness towards. Our loved ones and towards our family members too, right?

Like meaning. So if someone does something wrong to like one of my kids, then I'm justified in being kind of an out of control maniac and taking vengeance in my own hand and doing whatever I need to do in order to fix that.

And so, so there's like a, like, um, a, a, um, personal vendetta. And then there's like a vendetta on behalf of another person kind of thing that people understand, but then there is a very real God centered element to this that I think most people are unfamiliar with.

Okay. So God has priorities in the world and like God's the one who, like, if you think about it through the lens of offense as a Christian, as you grow in the Christian life, like God's really the only one who's, who's able to take like completely justified personal offense that is righteous for him to have.

Okay. Right. Yeah. Cause he's perfect. He hasn't wronged anyone. Right. Yeah. So like, when we think about this, in some sense, this is like a discussion about anger. Okay. So there's, there's different categories of anger in the Bible.

You have a sinful anger in the Bible and you have righteous anger in the Bible. And if you can get your mind around these two categories of sinful anger and righteous anger, then it puts you in a good position to understand the difference between like imprecatory prayers done, right.

And imprecatory prayers done wrong. Okay. Okay. So like try to think through these categories. So like the difference between sinful anger and righteous anger is, is all about like, like, if you want to think about what anger is in a simple way, anger is, I want what I want when I want it.

That's what anger is. But then you have to ask yourself, um, like, like what, what's the difference between these two things in, in sinful angers is all about my kingdom come. I will be done on earth as it, or, you know, on heaven, as I want it to be done on earth, whereas righteous anger is about God's kingdom come God's will be done.

Um, you know, on earth as it is in heaven. So like, it's just kind of the reverse of that. So most of us, we only have this category for sinful, like sinful, self-centered, petty, selfish anger, right?

You did something. I don't like, I want you to be punished because, you know, basically don't nobody do me like that, right? Yeah, that's simple anger, right? That's sinful anger. But then like the difference between sinful anger and righteous anger is righteous anger is all about God's priorities.

Righteous anger is all about God. Like the offenses that God should be dishonored and that I love God so much. And like my love for him pales in comparison to my love for any human being. And so in that way, like I should love other people as I love myself, right.

But I should love God way more than I love anyone else. Okay. Now, if you have like a person who is set themself in opposition towards God's plans and in hostile to everything that God is carrying out, there should be a holy kind of hatred for that person that can coexist, right?

Like, so they can coexist alongside a genuine compassion for them, but based on what they're doing, what they're doing fundamentally is wrong. It needs to be stopped. And God needs to be honored. It just like you would have a holy anger towards someone who is abusing your wife, right?

So like we have a category for like that. Like if someone is doing something wrong to your wife, someone is doing something wrong to one of your kids, we know how to respond in a jealous way, but like you magnify that by a million, that's how you should respond when someone is dishonoring the Lord.

And so you have to have some sort of like category for righteous anger in this discussion in that I want God's priorities to be done. I mean, you know, you should, you should think about like, as you're looking at all these false prophets and all these false teachers that are out there that are deceiving people, you know, and basically binding on them heavy burdens and, you know, and imagine yourself, you know, in the time of the reformation with Martin Luther nailing his 95, you know, thesis on the, you know, the Wittenberg chapel and all that, like there's a, you have a system that's set up where these individuals are fleecing these people and telling them in order to get favor with God, you have to buy it.

Their indulgences, like there should be this, like, um, like a absolute hatred for that kind of act. And, you know, it's very appropriate in that kind of context to be praying God, like vindicate your name, um, protect your people.

Right. Yeah. And, you know, stop your enemies. Okay.

Yes. So at that point, Peter, Peter and ax, um, who, who was it that sold their house and then didn't give all the money to fire. Yeah. Nice. And Sapphira, he, you know, he says, mayor silver perish with you.

Or no, I'm, I'm sorry. That's not, um, that's not, that's Simon, the magician. Um, he, he thinks he can, he thinks he can purchase the gift that they're, that they're, um, you know, I think they're healing people and he went, he wants to receive that gift as well.

And he asked them how much money it would cost. And Peter's response is, you know, mayor silver Paris with you because you thought you could purchase the gift of God with, with wealth or whatever, something like that.

So, so it's very, you know, um, like he's, he's adamant, you know, Peter's very clearly adamantly defending, um, the way to salvation, which is not, it has nothing to do with, you know, money obviously.

So that's just an example of what you're talking about.

Eschatological Judgment and Final Vindication

Right. Yeah. So I think if you get your mind around these categories of sinful anger versus righteous anger, it puts you in a right position to understand like, what is the purpose of these in purgatory prayers and why are people praying them?

And so there's a way to pray it in a very vindictive and self-centered way. And then there's a way to pray these kinds of things in a way that's very focused on God's priorities. It's not, um, it's not about vengeance, like personal vengeance.

It's about God's priorities, God's will being done in the world. And you wanting God to be honored and glorified and vindicated, um, more than you want anything else. And that's, that priority supersedes everything else in that way.

So in light of that, um, you know, if, if the point is to say in a purgatory prayer is not something that's supposed to be vindictive, um, you know, for, for my sake, at least, you know, I was thinking of, I was thinking, I was passages throughout the Bible that are basically, you know, they're either in purgatory prayers or, um, there there's, you know, there's some form of, of people calling out, wishing for justice and wishing for God to avenge them.

Right. And so, so I just, I just looked it up real quick cause I couldn't remember any off any specific passages off the top of my head. You know, I've found revelation chapter six, verse 10, it says, um, let's see.

And they cried out with a loud voice saying, how long, Oh Lord, holy and true. Will you refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who live on the earth? So you have that kind of example where they're very clearly calling for God to, you know, judge them, um, to kill them, um, but for, to avenge their blood.

So, so how does that fit in with the, with what you were saying about in purgatory prayers being like, not, um, you know, not something that's vindictive on your, for your, for your sake?

Yeah. I think when you're thinking about the idea of an imprecatory prayer, I mean, like fundamentally there's this God centered element to it, but then there is the reality that judgment and vengeance is committed to God.

And so what, like, we are ultimately longing for the day when vengeance ultimately will be carried out. Okay. So, so Christians are not like categorically against the idea of vengeance, like in, you know, in an eschatological sense, like we, like we know that there's going to be an eschatological judgment and like, we live, we live life in the, like with the knowledge of the reality that like we're coming to a day where, you know, all the people who like persecuted us and despitefully used us, there's, there's a day coming where their mouths are going to be stopped.

And so we have different postures towards them. So you have a posture where you want them to turn to Christ. That's a very clear kind of posture that you're going to have towards other people, meaning like if you're a person who's been forgiven much, and you see that God's forgiven you like a debt that you can never pay and like, there's nothing you can do to earn it.

And that you want, we're just like these people who are spitting. Like you are the same person that, you know, is being like, uh, that is persecuting you, right? You were them like, so that was you. So there's a sense in which like grace and humility and desire for mercy wants them to come, um, to repentance.

And so you have a certain posture that like, and I think that should be the primary posture that you have towards people in this life in particular is a posture that says, I want you to come to penance.

That's what I want. Okay. That's what I want personally for you. But then there is a, there is a eschatological component to this. That's a bit different than all that. Okay. So meaning like, we know that all of God's enemies are not going to repent.

Okay. Right. Like, so they're not all going to come to the Lord. There is, so part of this is like a hell discussion. Okay. So we know that hell exists. We know that hell is real. And we know that like, um, there, you know, any number of people, um, you see this in running a podcast or anything like that, or having any kind of public ministry out there being involved in church, you see that there's many people who slander you and who, um, say evil things about you and say wicked things about you.

And part of the, you know, the comfort that a Christian can have is you, you can have comfort in knowledge that, you know, at the last day, you're going to be vindicated to have been in the right. Okay.

So you're not just like, um, it's not just like, um, uh, it's, it's not just that justice is like completely and totally irrelevant to you whatsoever. Right. So it's not that you just want like out of control mercy with no justice.

What you want, if you have a, you have, you know, one foot in one direction, one foot in another direction. And so in the eschatological sense, like there will be a day coming where everything will be set right.

And you as a Christian will be shown to have been in the right for following God. And so there will be a vindication of you in that sense, like in the last day where it will be shown that what, you know, everything that you suffered unjustly will be, will be, um, put on full display in that way.

And so we like, so part of our posture is it's not just, um, is what I'm trying to say is it's not just this, like, I want right now, you know, anytime anyone is mean to me, I have a personal vindictive kind of posture towards them that says you do something mean to me.

I want you to go to hell. Right. Like that's not, that's not the kind of posture we should have, but like in the final analysis, we do know, and we are waiting for the day when all of that will be proven, like we're, we're all that will be sorted out, right.

Yeah. Where justice will be done where God will be vindicated. Not only will God be vindicated, but we will show up, be shown in the last analysis to have been in the right. Okay. Sure. So it's not just like, I want to suffer unjustly.

So signing up for the Christian life is not just me signing up to basically be persecuted my whole entire life and suffer for it without a word and nothing ever come of it. So like we are long, like, so you have to have some concept of like justice in the final analysis being done.

Um, and, and that's going to involve you being shown to be in the right and those who, um, you know, cut your head off being showed to be in the wrong that you can at the same time long for them to be a Saul.

Right. You get what I'm saying? Like you can long for your persecutors to be a Saul, but then you can also long for, if they're not a Saul for justice to be shown in the end for God to be vindicated for everything to be wrapped up.

Does that make sense?

Yeah. So if I understand you correctly, um, based off that passage in revelation, essentially what's being stated there is a desire to see what God has already promised. He's going to do carry it out, right?

So he promised that, you know, obviously we believe that hell is a real place, um, that anyone outside of Christ will be damned to hell for all eternity. Um, and, and God has promised that he will send everyone there who is outside of Christ, who is not, um, put their faith and trust in him and repented of their sins.

Uh, and so in revelation, what they're doing is they're just crying out for God to fulfill that promise, right?

Fulfill his promises and to, you know, have justice be done in the final analysis. And so what we're not to do is we're not to take vengeance in our own hand in this life and have a vindictive kind of posture.

So that's what I'm trying to talk about. We're not supposed to have some sort of vindictive posture where I'm going to make justice happen here. And now what you do is you give that over to God. And so you have a concern.

I want justice to be done. Okay. Yeah. I want just, I want just to be done, but I'm giving that over to God. And now one of the means that God uses in this life to carry that out is the government who bears the sword.

So the government is God's deacon of vengeance in this life, but then the government is not going to get it all cleaned up in this life. You're waiting for an eschatological time where that's going to all be done.