Dead Men Walking Podcast: Tim Murphy

Dead Men Walking

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00:00

It's May 21. We're just going to get mad. Yeah, it's going to get mad about stuff. Righteous anger. Amen.

00:06

We ain't going to last 10 minutes. Hello, uh, live Facebook and we're doing this live. Yeah. Oh, it's live.

00:13

Facebook. And then we're also free right now. Uh, you get to watch us record an episode because, uh, this episode, uh, this is

00:21

Tim here, he'll introduce himself here shortly when we start recording, but this isn't going live till Wednesday.

00:26

So you guys get a sneak peek of watching us record an episode here a few days early. All right.

00:31

We ready guys? I don't. So we'll go from there. Well, hello everyone.

00:47

Welcome back to another episode of dead men walking. I'm your host, Greg Moore. And to my left is

00:53

Jason. Come on now. Jason Hamlin. We do have somebody in the middle here.

00:58

So we're, we just got, you messed me up. This is the first time we have someone in the new studio in studio in studio in the middle.

01:05

We've been in the middle. Oh, the voice you're hearing is Mr. Tim Murphy. How are you, sir?

01:11

I'm doing great. I got to tell you something, man. I was telling Jason this boss, it's, it's nasty, angry, acoustic guitar.

01:18

Good way to start the first one in studio in the redesigned studio. We've been doing a lot of zoom calls.

01:24

Uh, Tim has been a longtime, uh, friend and mentor for me. Um, heck you played a song in my wedding 14 years ago.

01:32

Wait a minute. Mentor. I would say we talk now and then. I don't know. I'm honored by that.

01:38

Well, for those, for those listening, why don't you, uh, give a little bio, give a little bit about yourself before we jump into the topic tonight.

01:45

So people know where you're coming from. Okay. So, um, like Greg said, I'm Tim Murphy, so I'm not from here originally.

01:53

Um, my wife and I can tell. Yeah, I know. No, not. Oh, okay. Okay. Oh, you're very polite.

01:59

You are. This is great. So we, we moved up here in 1989.

02:04

We moved to Monroe because my wife, Cindy is from Monroe. She's born and raised.

02:10

I was born, um, in Southern Indiana, Clarksville, which is right across the river from Louisville, Kentucky.

02:18

Then you're, uh, you're accepted in that area, but on the Ohio river. So, um, this year on the 31st, we'll be married 37 years.

02:28

So thank you, Cindy. All right. That's awesome. So, um, we got married in 84 and, uh, we decided instead of moving up here right away, we decided to go ahead and stay in that area and, uh, recently at compelled church where we both go.

02:45

Um, we gave our testimony. So this is going to be a little bit of a rehash of that. So it's, it's pretty, we, um, cause

02:51

I was be a rock star or make it in music. I really didn't have any needless to say. Uh, it's not very conducive to, uh, yeah, to a fruitful marriage or to a healthy marriage.

03:02

So we just started to drift apart. She was, um, she was, uh, teaching during the day and I was playing clubs at night quite a bit for teaching me.

03:11

Yes, that's right. Well, that was later on teacher. That was later on eventually. So yeah, so I guess

03:17

I'll correct that. I don't want to say drifted apart. I mean, I took significant steps to make sure that I destroyed our marriage.

03:22

And you telling her, you know, I, uh, I just want an acoustic guitar. I don't know what to do with this thing.

03:28

I mean, I did, it's not the one I wanted. How grateful was that? And so, you know, I started to play around with punk around with it.

03:34

And it's, it's just like a lot of things in, in our walk with the Lord, you know, he's doing things and he's moving and we can't even see him or we're not even paying attention.

03:41

And, and so to make a long story short, I just started to try to learn how to, you know, the, the different pick attacks and the different courting and things like that.

03:50

And so then Pastor Joe Atkinson said, Hey, Wednesday night, why don't you come and lead worship for us?

03:55

Right. And I was like, wait a minute. There's no band. There's no noise. I can't hide behind anything. It's just me and an acoustic.

04:01

So man, my, my mouth was dry and I was sweating. And you know, I, I, I'm glad nobody recorded it.

04:07

It was probably pretty horrendous, but that kind of got me started on, on leading worship and it's really, really grateful

04:12

I got to do it for Redeemer for about 10 years and in a church plant for seven, and then, um, we were kind of looking for a place to land and we went to, uh, went to compelled.

04:21

It was Bedford Christian community. When I first went there about nine years ago. So, so that's kind of my story.

04:27

I've, I've, I've got, uh, I've got three boys. Uh, Christian is my oldest and he's in Bournemouth, England right now studying.

04:35

What's he doing there? It's a graduate studies for architecture. And he asked me again this afternoon, guys, he said,

04:40

Hey, when are you going to be on that, uh, bones of the Patriots show what time does that thing come on? Yeah.

04:45

So, uh, I don't know if he's up or not. It's probably about, eh, it's about one in the, one in the morning there, but, uh, he was looking forward to it, but anyway, he's out there making his way.

04:54

And, uh, that's awesome. And then, uh, Wesley, um, is my middle son. He lives just down the road from us. So he gave us our first, uh, grandson, him and Cheyenne.

05:03

So grateful for that. Declan's our, our grandson. We're, we're very blessed to have him. And then

05:08

Kelly's my youngest. Um, he's still living at home, but that's okay. Um, you know, we're, we're, uh, he's, he's finding his way and he's starting to,

05:16

God's starting to bless him. He's starting to, uh, he's going to be helping, uh, Mike best with, uh, code ninjas here pretty soon when they open up.

05:23

Oh, wow. Very cool. Yep. So that's kind of what I'm about. I didn't mean to, did I, what did I take too long?

05:29

No, no, not at all. Yeah. The live video just kind of went out. I don't know, Greg, did you, uh, I went out.

05:34

I'm not messing with it. I think the video decided. Yeah. Yep. Sorry. It's a new app.

05:40

It's we are still recording. Yeah. We are still the, the, the equipment is intuitive.

05:45

It's it happens technology. And look, Tim's being a very modest because, uh,

05:51

I've listened to a lot of his worship. I've sat underneath him being a worship leader and, uh, you are anointed, talented and a humble worship leader.

05:59

And I do really appreciate you. So I know he's not going to ever toot his own horn, but I will for him.

06:05

And that's one of the reasons why we wanted to have him on here too, is because you're on local TV as well, like on local television.

06:12

So a lot when I was younger, like 20, 20 years ago, now look, this is, this is a regional

06:19

Metro Toledo, Detroit, Monroe area. Come on. There's, there's, there's a time where like, you know, local musicians would get on local television shows and I'd be flipping through and I'd, I'd catch something local and I, and I remember, you know,

06:38

I was a, I was a young punk musician. So I was just like, you know, I was like, Oh, here we go.

06:44

Here comes another guy with his guitar doing something that I don't even care about. Well, Tim comes on one time and I'm like,

06:51

Oh, here we go. I'll listen. He kicks some butt. It was like, Oh my gosh, this is awesome.

06:58

I was so good. And I was, I was not really in the church at that point either. I don't, I don't know where I was at.

07:05

I might've been in, you know, ninth, 10th, 11th grade, but I definitely was not there, you know?

07:11

And yeah, it was awesome, man. I was hoping that ended with like, I was hoping that ended with like, and his song led me to the

07:19

Lord. Yeah. We feel that's why we hit John. That's made me want to become a guitar player.

07:26

Tim is the reason that I toured the world. No, I'm joking, but okay.

07:31

Let's bring this back home. So we're going to get into, we're going to get into a subject tonight that I think is very critical before we do that.

07:38

We're going to do a little newsy news and Jason, you got your news stuff ready? Yeah. Let's do this.

07:53

All right. Did you do the high part? Yeah. I, I go,

08:01

I go in the, uh, cartoon. Yeah. Like, yeah, we got some newsy news by Queens.

08:10

Right. Thank you. It's so great. So what's up on the docket? Yeah. So check this out and feel free to jump in Tim Chick -fil -A employee wins car and then gives it to coworker.

08:20

Oh, those Chick -fil -A employees. This is so great. This girl was 17 years old and she won a car.

08:26

She is, she was from Appleton, Wisconsin. Okay. And, uh, she, she happened to show up at a

08:33

Christmas party and, uh, they had a raffle for a car and she decided to give it to her coworker who was riding her bike to work every single day in Appleton, Wisconsin.

08:44

Now I've been to Appleton, Wisconsin many times, and I tell you what, it gets cold up there in Appleton, Wisconsin.

08:50

It's about 30 minutes from Bowling Green. But, uh, but yeah, I tell you what, man, this is awesome though.

08:56

Somebody, and I mean, it, it, it doesn't even matter what kind of car it is. Uh, I'll just tell you it was a 2008

09:02

Hyundai Elantra, but it was a free car. Yeah. And also for a 17, 18 year old, you get a car.

09:09

You're like, yeah, well, the 17 year old made the decision to give it to her coworker, which is super.

09:14

Once again, the Chick -fil -A employees just outdoing us all. Right. Exactly. I'm sorry though. I have to ask you.

09:21

Why were you in Appleton so many times? Appleton. We played all over up there. We played in, we played up in Wisconsin.

09:27

He toured for like 12 years, man, in Japan and everywhere else. We were all over. We used to do the Northern Plains all the time.

09:33

So yeah, man. That was probably the reason why. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You just bring it out.

09:38

I'm awesome. That's so great. Who would have known? Right. Would have known.

09:43

Exactly. Well, yeah. To have the fortitude at 17 to say, Hey, I see a need. I mean, isn't that what the kind of kids we want to raise too?

09:50

I hope, uh, when my daughters and my son get that age and if they see that, like so train them, right.

09:56

It there's, there is no need for material goods in this world, really. It's nice to have those things, but that isn't our treasure, man.

10:03

And to have a 17 year old, see a need for a friend and go, yeah, you can have it because you need it. Exactly. Man, a 17 year old

10:09

Greg, I don't care what it was. I probably would have flipped it for a profit, you know, for a profit of like $10.

10:15

So it doesn't matter. It's still profits profit. Exactly. Um, uh, so what else we got? Let's go on the other end of the spectrum.

10:21

Hillsong church leadership accused of spending tithe money on luxuries.

10:27

Oh no. I saw something about this. Yeah. They were loading them on prepaid debit cards. Yeah.

10:32

So it wasn't quite as easy to, uh, to track. Yeah. That's so sad, man.

10:37

But when you make millions and millions of dollars, you're paying out, you know, a 3 .8

10:43

million in salaries, benefits, and expenses. I mean, I don't, I don't know. What do you, how do you guys feel about, uh, the, just, just, just, uh,

10:53

Jason's getting, okay, I'm just going to go ahead and throw this out there. All right. Should a pastor be able to make six figures?

11:02

Oh, I don't know if you can put a monetary limit on it. I really can't. Uh, here's the thing.

11:08

I am not a Steven Furtick fan. When he bought a 1 .06 million dollar house,

11:14

I defended him. I was like a million dollar house in South Carolina. I mean a million dollar house up here. Yeah. That's, I don't have one, but that's really not that expensive when it's compared to across the country.

11:23

So I don't know if I can put like a dollar amount of, you can't make this amount. I mean, me personally, and we'll get

11:29

Tim's, uh, you know, I, I thought here too, man, I think it's all about the intent, the heart, the, what are you doing with those things?

11:38

Um, how are you ministering to your flock? How are you using those assets that the Lord has given you? Because we're just stewards of those, right?

11:45

I can't look at someone who has a lot of money and go, oh, that's, that's now it's now Christ clearly preached.

11:51

Look at, it's going to be tough time to get in because it's easy to make it an idle man when you got all that stuff.

11:56

And then you have responsibilities to your employees. If you own a business to, you know, other things. So I, but I think if you're, if you're wise and discerning, whether you're a pastor or not,

12:06

I think you can make a million dollars. I think you can make a million dollars and still love the Lord with all your heart.

12:12

You heard that Cindy, right? I think it's hard. Yeah. Yeah. But what do you think

12:18

Tim? Yeah, let's put him in the middle. I'm probably gonna, you know,

12:25

I'm probably going to just kind of fall on Greg's side as far as really it, you know, so it's, it's about the, again, it's about the attitude of the heart, like Greg said.

12:35

And, you know, it's, it's always, you know, we, we say things like, well, you know, we, it's kind of hard to judge, but boy, do we spend a lot of time judging, right?

12:44

And so, you know, I'm, I'm kind of, you know,

12:49

I am in the middle here. I, it, it does make me wince a little bit. Um, but you know, at the same time, yeah,

12:56

I, I think, I think the Bible's pretty clear about, you know, million dollars. We are, we just love saying that you like to say one more time.

13:06

Look at a million dollars. I'm gonna make that a drop. We're just going to drop it. But there is a lot of work that goes into being a pastor.

13:13

Oh, sure. I mean, wow. I mean, if you really think about even, even a biblical pastor, exactly.

13:20

And, and especially when it gets to the 500 person church, you know, there's a lot of work in that.

13:26

And I know you do obviously have elders. You do, obviously have a team around you. Um, maybe I shouldn't have said team brothers and sisters.

13:35

It's okay. This is not easy there. Fortune 500 church, Jason. Let's be easy with this Megalodon church that I just made up.

13:42

No, but, uh, but yeah, no, no, no. I, yeah, it, it is, it is an interesting topic.

13:47

And I think it's a self -selecting group too. I think the ones that truly care about the flock and truly care about, um, the, the biblical requirements to be a shepherd, most likely probably not rolling around in a $2 million house by choice.

14:01

So I think, but, but I look at it, you asked me a question and I'm very literal. You said, is it possible?

14:06

Yes. I think it's possible. Is it the best situation? Probably not. Right. Is it the wisest or wisest decision or the most discernment to be rolling around with a 2 million in assets?

14:17

So you, you're really into what Creflo dollar does. We get it. Okay, cool. Okay. Great. Great. On the side of Creflo dollar.

14:23

Yeah. I'm a big Creflo dollar fan. All those fans. I just realized this like went to Appleton, but I guess, but the original story was that maybe, well, they're just, maybe some funds were misused.

14:36

Yeah, we got off. Yeah, that's too bad too, because that the Hill song has just been plagued with scandal the last few months.

14:45

Here's the issue though, is I read an article and it almost seemed like, cause you got to realize too, the world loves to jump on this stuff.

14:52

If they can find anything within a church and we can sit here and say, look, we don't agree with everything Hill song did. I was not a

14:58

Carl Lentz fan at all. Um, I, I, you could kind of judge by his fruit where his mind and heart was at.

15:03

That's it is what it is. But the world, I, I, I read an article and it was like, they're, they're paying for the pastor's vacations and they're paying for the supplies.

15:12

And it's like, yeah, that's what a church does. It provides, so there was, it was almost like, I didn't know, you know, until more comes out,

15:18

I don't want to pass judgment just because I don't know how it was being misused. It's just an accusation of misuse.

15:24

And most of the, uh, most of the articles, but it was just funny how, you know, your, your Washington post and your

15:30

New York times and all these guys that, you know, TMZ, they pick it up and they're just saying what really does happen.

15:36

I mean, if you're in a church, we're supposed to take care of our shepherds and the tithes do that, uh, whether you're a 10 person church or, uh, you know, 6 ,000

15:44

Megalodon, Megalodon, are you patenting that? Is that a word? I think actually that was still a character.

15:50

Well, it's like a dinosaur. That was Eric Volkman and, uh, uh, our ministry class.

15:56

Yeah. Eric Volkman came up with the Megalodon church. Megalodon church. Okay. A very shout out to Eric Volkman out there.

16:02

Awesome. Great guitar player, by the way, Tim. Yeah. So, uh, probably learn from me. Exactly.

16:08

Every single person in Monroe County, the greater Toledo, Detroit area. So, yeah, let's, let's bring it home with the last one then.

16:15

Yep. So now that I don't have it open, let's go ahead and bring it on home.

16:21

And I caught him off guard. Bring it on. That's what happens when you have new gear. Yeah. Right. Here we go.

16:28

All right. So, um, Christian population in China could reach 300 million by 2030.

16:36

Despite the persecution. Hallelujah. Despite the persecution on that one. I mean, this is, they are probably sending missionaries to us probably by now already anyway, but by then it's, it's really going to be.

16:51

Yeah. So despite the fact that the Chinese government two months ago, uh, took three of their, uh,

16:58

I guess we would call them like federal agents or like CIA, but spies put them into groups, uh, fake the conversion on each of them so they could go into the

17:05

Bible studies, arrested everyone, killed three of the leaders. You headed them. Uh, this is China we're talking about, you know,

17:12

China, uh, our, our, you know, our friend supposedly by some politicians. You're telling me that we're seeing a growth in Christianity and a communist country that will literally imprison you or put you to death boy.

17:25

Oh, it gets me excited because persecution grows the church. Yeah. Persecution grows the church.

17:30

I mean, that's almost how we are modeled. It's it's times of great blessing and wealth and materialistic goods where we kind of get like David and we sit back and we go, let's count our men, man.

17:41

Let's see what we got here. How many soldiers? What have I conquered? And it's like, man, in my life, I know that any type of person, and I'm not comparing myself at all to what's going on in China, but in my life, that's when

17:53

I've been closest to the Lord, man, in times of valleys and persecution in depression, that's when

17:59

I've been closest to the Lord and my weakness is when his strength is made known. And that is such a great story to hear, to hear that.

18:06

I mean, 300 million. Yeah, man, that's awesome. And they're being persecuted. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and that, and that may go into our topic as well.

18:15

Um, Tim, would you like to kind of bring us into this, this awesome topic that you brought for us this evening?

18:22

Cause, uh, before we were on, before we were on tonight, um, uh, Tim was just talking about all this subject and I was just like getting goosebumps.

18:30

I was, I was loving it. So here we go. You were thinking about that show and he played the guitars and that I was like, oh my gosh,

18:36

I'm in the same room as Tim Murphy. We have your rider full of red

18:41

Skittles. It's green Skittles. Let me come back. So we were talking about sidelines.

18:51

Come on, let's, let's, let's hear it. Let's pull it in. Um, Greg had talked to me about, um, possibly coming on here.

18:59

It's, it's been a while. And, and first of all, I just want to say to both of you, I'm, I'm a big fan of your work and it, and it's, uh, no,

19:10

I'm honored to be here. Really? I appreciate you guys. Um, well it's you a little. Okay.

19:15

Okay. It is. It's all me. Yeah. That didn't take long.

19:25

Judging sanctification. So I think, I think everybody can pretty much relate, uh, with, with a lot of what

19:31

I'm going to say. Um, obviously last year was a, was a crazy year. 2020 was beyond what anybody would have expected.

19:40

Um, a lot of confusion, uh, just, just a lot of crazy stuff going on.

19:45

Um, with, with, uh, the Corona virus, the pandemic, the, which, which, what it basically turned into, um, our response to it, uh, you know, the violence in the country, the upheaval, uh, obviously leading into a presidential election.

20:01

So it was just a perfect storm, just a lot of stuff going on. And, um, so I was, I was basically, you know, obviously

20:10

I think as, as a lot of Christians were at that, at the time, just really, you know, so what is God saying, what, where are you and all,

20:17

Lord, where are you and all this, where are we going? And I, and I think, I don't know about you guys, but cause

20:23

I'd heard pastor Nate say this a couple of times last year. And especially with having the churches shuttled,

20:29

I mean, at Easter, no, no one, I mean, never in my lifetime would

20:34

I have imagined. So, um, I, I really, I was expecting this massive revival.

20:42

I was respecting, excuse me, expecting like just this big move of the spirit and, and just, and just this militant, like, no, no, no, we're not gonna, we're not gonna put up with this.

20:53

We're gonna, you know, God's on the throne and we're going to move forward. And, you know, and I think, um,

20:58

I think the confusion and just the weariness and just the, the, just not knowing where things were going or how things were, were happening at the time was no clear direction.

21:09

It just, it just left a lot of people weary. And I know I was one of those just kind of tired, just not really knowing, knowing what

21:14

God was, was doing. And, and I was, I didn't, I wasn't hearing any consistent voices. I wasn't hearing, hearing anything, you know, from either, you know, local ministers or, or my brothers and sisters, or, you know,

21:27

I was, we listened to several national guys too, and, and there just didn't seem to be any consistent message, uh, which was, which was confusing to me.

21:36

So after the election, um, you know, obviously just continuing to just seek

21:42

God and, and just trying to figure out where are we headed here, you know, what is God doing? What's he saying?

21:48

You know, just all of a sudden just started to, uh, just feel a stirring, you know?

21:54

And, and I think when I was talking before I came on, you guys had said that you kind of started feeling the same thing, that God is just beginning to, to, uh, pour out his spirit now and things are starting to coalesce.

22:06

So at the very beginning of the year, uh, in my prayer time, you know,

22:11

God brought me to this passage. So this is, um, this is first Peter one, three through four, excuse me, celebrate with praises the

22:20

God and father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has shown us his extravagant mercy for his fountain of mercy has given us a new life.

22:30

We are reborn to experience a living, energetic hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

22:38

We are reborn into a perfect inheritance that can never perish, never be defiled, never diminish.

22:46

It is promised and preserved forever in the heavenly realm for you. And then it's so, so, okay.

22:55

Do we're, we're, our salvation is based on what Christ has done. No one can take it.

23:02

It's never going to perish. It's never going to fade. But, but the thing that really stuck out about this was, is that we're to experience a living, energetic hope and what

23:10

I'd basically seen for an experience for 10 months, wasn't very energetic and wasn't very living.

23:16

So then that, that led me to second Peter. Um, though, uh, it says, so keep coming to him who is the living stone, though he was rejected and discarded by men, but chosen by God and is priceless in God's sight, come to be his living stones who are continually being assembled into a sanctuary for God.

23:38

For now you serve as holy priest offering up spiritual sacrifices that he readily accepts through Jesus Christ.

23:46

For it says in scripture, look, I lay a cornerstone in Zion, a chosen and priceless stone.

23:51

And whoever believes in him will certainly not be disappointed. So I just,

23:58

I just feel a stirring in my spirit that, that, you know, in this time that now as a, as a response to everything that happened last year and all the confusion and, and people just not really understanding who they are and kind of losing their identity.

24:11

And, you know, uh, that, that God more than anything is just starting to, um, just confirm in my spirit that he's calling us to be living stones, living stones.

24:22

Um, and that, you know, as, as believers, the, the choice of, of, of being on the sideline or standing on the sideline, uh, or, or kind of, you know, walking down the middle is, is probably not going to be an option.

24:38

Yeah. Um, that, that, you know, with the things that we've already seen and the things that are coming, um, it, you know, we're, we're going to have to know the word.

24:50

We're going to have to, we're going to have to know the word and his truth. We're going to have to stay in step with the spirit.

24:56

You know, God's calling us to tell people, you know, who we are. Yeah. Well, you know,

25:02

I mean, that's all, I mean, spot on. Yeah. Uh, the last in 2020, if I saw anything that, uh,

25:11

COVID really highlighted within the church, two things was the importance of the ecclesiastical gathering and assembly of the brethren.

25:19

Um, and two, uh, really kind of cauterizing the fact that Christianity is not a spectator sport.

25:26

Right. Amen. Exactly what you were saying. I was looking at the same thing. I go, man, we're going to start to see a squeeze and we're going to start to see the believers that understand their faith, that understand what the gospel is about, that understand it's interactive, that understands that we just can't go to a church for a one hour service once a week and say, we put in, put in our time,

25:49

Lord. Um, it is a interactive participatory faith and COVID really kind of highlighted that because I kind of,

25:58

I saw some people not too affected. Oh, cool. Yeah, man. Now I can watch, I can watch in my pajamas while I eat

26:05

Cheetos and look at nothing against anyone who is, who eats Cheetos. Yeah. That's what

26:10

I don't want those Cheetos eaters out there to be offended or makes a lot of money. Oh yeah. Creflo. Yeah. But my point is, is, and we had a pastor on out of California who was kind of defying the mask mandate out there with John MacArthur, his name's

26:25

Joel Webben. And he, he got on and he was just gave a really good 20 minutes on the importance of the ecclesiastical gathering of the assembly.

26:31

Like Christ shows up in a very unique way there. And that's biblically based. And that, that was the big thing for me is this was even a teaching moment

26:41

I saw in some churches of really, even for the leadership to go, Oh no, we keep doing, we've been doing this for so long.

26:48

Every Sunday, every Wednesday, Tuesday, small group, whatever it is that you almost just get into the motions of it. And you don't realize what a blessing and how spiritually important it is to have those people to have us come together, brothers and sisters in Christ.

27:01

So if nothing else, I was more of a optimist on that shirt. It was frustrating seeing churches shut down.

27:08

And like you said, there was no one message, right? I mean, we had some over here. Nope. We absolutely have to shut down some over here.

27:15

We won't do it. And we're not just going to do it because we think it's a government thing and a government takeover. And you had some in the middle that were, you know, half on half, it was just, it was just a mess.

27:25

You had a lot of different subjects coming up too, at the same time, critical race theory, intersectionality.

27:30

I mean, homosexual marriage. I mean, transgender, there's a lot of things that was coming up politically and in the church.

27:40

I mean, this whole woke church that we've been talking about for the past, you know, seven, eight months, whatever it's been.

27:48

I mean, we are really running into a lot of walls where it's like, okay, okay, where are we going with this?

27:57

Okay. You know, and where's the church going with all these subjects? It's so funny. I didn't even know what we were going to be talking about tonight, honestly.

28:03

But like, I was just talking about this to my wife today about this because I mean, when it comes to,

28:14

I mean, I always bring up Postville and how Christ is on the throne right now. All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to him.

28:22

Like, I am so excited still, even though I know that 50 people just got killed and I ran because they didn't deny

28:32

Christ, you know? And it's like, oh my gosh, there's so many stories that we hear about and Christ is still on the throne.

28:40

And yeah, I get upset about like the other day we did a great show with Dr.

28:47

Andrew Sandlin. And here we are, Greg and I talking after the show and I was just talking about taxes and like I turned into like the pessimist for a second just because it was like, man, like what is going on, you know?

29:02

And I almost put up a post on Facebook that said, does anyone out there think that God is out to lunch, you know?

29:09

Is God out to lunch or does he know what's going on? You know, like where do you think

29:16

Christ is right now? Where do you think he was during those 400 years between Malachi and Matthew? Where do you think he was when

29:23

Israel was under Pharaoh, you know? I mean, it's just like he's still been in the same place, the same yesterday today and forever.

29:33

Like what are we talking about, you know? Like why are we being such pessimists at certain times?

29:40

I mean, and you know, we are being sanctified, yes. But man, like I love the attitude of let's go get him, you know?

29:48

Like almost like Doug Wilson always says the two -word prayer, it's

29:55

Geronimo, amen. And it's like, let's just get out, you know, let's get out there and impact culture, you know?

30:05

Well, that's kind of what you're talking about, right, Tim? I mean, it's a great word. We really have an opportunity. We really have an opportunity to be a true counterculture movement, okay?

30:15

And so throughout history, those movements, you know, have been started by the artists and by the people of faith and things like that.

30:22

I mean, just looking around at what's going on and what's potentially coming with, you know, censorship and things like that,

30:29

I mean, it's exciting to know that we're going to make our own space, and it really is.

30:37

I talked to Christian about it. We really have an opportunity to be in a true counterculture movement.

30:42

But the beauty of it is that, you know, this is all something God is doing. So he's empowering, he's giving us what we need to do.

30:50

We don't have to make it up or, you know, or be clever or whatever the case may be. The Holy Spirit, I just really feel like God is pouring himself out right now, and he is, you know, he's revealing himself.

31:04

Now, he does all the time. Don't get, you know, I know that. God speaks all the time. Cindy asked me, you know, so what'd

31:10

God tell you today? I said, well, I'm sure he was saying something. I just don't know what it was or I wasn't listening or whatever. But again, for me, guys, it's just really been in just a month's time,

31:19

I can't even count how many times just confirmations from what you just said, Greg, what you were talking about with, you know, that just the typical way we do church moving forward is not going to be, people are going to want more than that.

31:33

And, you know, I came up with, there was three other phrases, you know, so this is an engagement, and to your point,

31:40

Jason, this is an action. So we're going to be purposeful about it. We're going to take the steps.

31:45

We're going to step out. So, you know, what does that look like? So, you know, along with the scriptures, God gave me engage

31:53

God. We have to engage God. We have to engage others, and we have to engage the enemy. So we engage

32:00

God, obviously, again, we've got to know the word. We've got to spend the time. It's nothing, you know, it's not a magic pill.

32:07

We've got to spend time in his presence. We've got to be asking him, you know, to show us, to reveal things to us.

32:13

We've got to know the word. And then if we do that, then we're going to have what we need to engage others, and we need to be purposeful about that.

32:22

And then if we engage God and engage others, we're going to be engaging the enemy. He's not going to like that.

32:28

You know, he's not going to like that at all. Yeah, 100%. That makes me think about 1 John 5, 19 as well, and this is something that Christians will,

32:39

I think I've brought this up on our podcast before, but I'll just say it again. 1 John 5, 19.

32:45

We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one, okay?

32:51

But we tend to forget 1 John 4, 4.

32:57

It says, little children, you are from God and have overcome them.

33:02

For he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. You know?

33:09

Yeah. Anyway, sorry, my post mill's coming up. Yeah, it's all good. You know, and what you've been saying,

33:16

Tim, too, is I think some people need to hear this as well, because I think there's going to be a real shaking of people who have been doing church, but as this shifts, and as we have to get into the game, and the sidelines are removed, and when we're doing this engaging that you're talking about, it's going to feel real funny for people.

33:34

They're going to go, wait a minute, what does this mean? Whether it's I'm doing church in another location, or a small group, or the way

33:42

I'm involved in service in my church. It's like we have to let them know, too, that it's okay to feel a little apprehensive, because I think what's going to happen is you're going to have some that'll just go, nope,

33:54

I'm out, I'm good. Look at it, serious, right? Like we probably know a couple in every, anyone listening, if you go to church, you probably know a couple that'd be like, if a little hardship comes,

34:03

I'm good, I'm going back to the couch, right? You're going to have some that are gung ho, let's engage, yep, this is what

34:09

I've been waiting for, and you have the majority in the middle going, this feels different and weird. I would just encourage listeners that as this shift takes,

34:17

I mean, it's going to take place. I think it's going to take place in the church, politically, spiritually. It's happening right now. I think we are going to start to get pressed.

34:24

I think we're going to start to get refined. Whether that looks like, I was just having a discussion with someone yesterday against privileged and persecuted, actually last night on Instagram Live, and we say, oh, we're persecuted in the

34:37

United States, right? We went from privileged status to now we're probably not so privileged as a religion.

34:43

That's really what's happening. I don't know if you could call it, I mean, you could call it persecution, but when I think persecution,

34:49

I'm thinking all rights taken away in prison, tortured, martyred, those type of things.

34:55

We still have it pretty good here in the United States. Yes, we're getting pressed, and I'll tell you what, even this little bit of pressing, hey, you got to wear a mask to church, look how many people flipped out, and I'm not a mask guy.

35:06

I love the Paul Washer quote, though. He said, you guys are mad about wearing masks, but you've been wearing masks to church all your life.

35:14

Oh, man. But my point is, is what happens when we really start getting shaken and stirred?

35:24

In this country, what happens when the church really starts getting shaken and stirred? We have bills, and I don't want to get political, but I'm just telling you, and I will a little bit, just because this is, you have to realize that God...

35:37

I'm going to scoot over a little bit. I'm going to give you some room. Quick, Tim, over here. He's about to blow.

35:45

No, I'm just saying, I don't like it to make up about all politics, but this is how the flesh works and how the fallen man works as we try to get things done through the political realm, right?

35:55

Because it's Satan kicking his heels against what God has rightly instituted, which is a righteous government.

36:01

Romans 13 clearly speaks about it being instituted for the righteous so we don't have to fear.

36:09

And what Satan wants to do is twist that, and he'll put political bills and people that are self -centered and want status and all these things to really write these bills that are in exact opposition of what righteous government should be.

36:20

We have a bill, H .R. 127, I think, in the house right now that says, hey, one, we're going to take away the tax -exempt status of churches.

36:29

Thank you to the Creflo dollars and the Stephen Furtick's for blowing that for us, you know, making $200 million and you're tithing 1 % of it to missions.

36:39

Okay. So I said that two years ago that was going to happen. Remember, I said that. I said, look, you can't run it like a business and expect the government to go, hey, we want to taste, right?

36:49

So they're taking that away. They also want to institute federal employees outside of major churches to take down social security and to take down your name and number.

36:57

I did hear that. That's true. Yeah, absolutely. That's working its way through the house. I thought that was like, yeah, conspiracy.

37:04

Right. That's crazy. But the funny thing is, is those bills have been floating around for five to eight years. So this isn't anything new, but they now think they have a chance to kind of get it passed in the house, the

37:13

Senate. So, you know, and I look at that and I go, okay, we have that in the background. What does that look like to church attendance or to someone who's a, you know, an

37:21

Easter and Christmas kind of Christian, or just a one hour at church every week, not really grounded in the faith to where now

37:28

I have to give my social security number to come into church and tell you what it is I agree and don't agree with that the preacher's talking about, whether it's about transgenderism or, you know, sex before marriage or homosexuality or any one of these topics that, you know, a government could deem in, you know, exclusive or, you know, against the agenda of equality.

37:51

And I just really see over the next three to five years, a really pressing of the Lord testing us and saying, what is, you know, removing the idols, first of all, from our lives, because I don't, we think

38:04

I don't, we think, oh, what an idol, golden idol. I don't have any idols. What do you mean? Martin Luther has a great quote.

38:10

And I say it all the time. The thing that your heart clings to in times of trouble, that is your true God. And that is your idol. And so many things we cling to, right?

38:17

Our status, our job, our money, our cars, our family. Relationships. You could go, my wife is the thing

38:23

I cling to. Isn't that godly? No, that's an idol because Christ is Lord. He is the one and true, only one and true

38:29

God and everything else needs to fall to the wayside. So I think one, it's going to help us remove idols from our life.

38:36

But two, I think it's going to refine, right? The refiner's fire. And I'm excited about that. So you talk about optimism,

38:43

Jason, I'm kind of right there with you too, Tim. I think, yeah, we need to engage, but I would like to encourage all of those that are feeling a little bit uneasy about, hey, things are going to be different in church.

38:53

This is an opportunity to not only be sanctified, but to grow closer, to have a closer relationship with God.

39:00

And in some aspects, I kind of welcome that type of valley that I think we might be going through as a corporate church, corporately in this nation.

39:08

I say there's opportunities there to glorify God in that. And that's what I'm excited about.

39:14

It's going to be tough. I think it's going to be tough. And I think it's going to be a shift for a lot of people. I mean,

39:19

I think there's too many people just playing church. If you took away some of the things that they have right now that we've become accustomed to.

39:26

I mean, we went to the Supreme Court because we didn't want to bake a cake for someone. We've got it really good in this country as Christians.

39:34

And I'm not saying that the things going on right now aren't real. You know, maybe we need to get a pastor in here to go, hey, wait a minute.

39:40

Now I deal with all kinds of stuff. I get it. But man, our brothers and sisters. That's why Paul talks about, don't forget them in prayer.

39:46

Those ones being jailed and persecuted and killed for the faith. That's happening all around the world. And I'm not trying to be an alarmist, but you know, you just have a couple different amendments fall, a couple different things shift in this country, an event or two.

39:59

And we could be in that state as well. And I just hope that the ecclesiastical church of God is ready for that.

40:05

And they know who they can trust in when those things happen. Yeah. Wow. Sorry.

40:12

We'll edit half that out guys. Well, that's going to be the question that, you know, the people are asking.

40:20

I know I've been asking it is again. So what does it mean to engage? I mean, do I, do we just like run out in the street and start, you know, screaming at people or have a pitchfork and right.

40:31

It really, it all starts. It all starts with God. Okay. We have to be, we have to be in tune.

40:39

We have to be in step with the spirit. We have to be empowered. And there's another very small, but powerful passage in first Corinthians 16, where it, you know, be on your guard, be men of courage, be strong.

40:53

What's the last part of that though? What is it? Do everything in love. That's the toughest one.

40:59

So here's all the, right. So here's all these military terms, right? Here's all these things we're going to go out and we're going to do great things for God.

41:06

And we're going to, you know, we're going to storm the Bastille and we're going to do all this stuff. Do everything in love.

41:12

And when we're in God's presence, we're changed. We're different. So again, it all starts with being more purposeful or being purposeful about spending time with him and getting to know his word.

41:25

Because yeah, truth is kind of gone. We don't know where to find it anymore.

41:31

As far as like in the media, dead men walking is where you find it. But it really is about God.

41:40

You know, the thing that excites me is that, and I'll just speak for myself.

41:46

God is the fulfiller. We follow the Lord and we're able to reach our potential.

41:53

We're able to, you know, God's going to get the most out of us. We're going to have a sense of purpose and we spend time with him and we engage him and we get involved and we get off the sideline and we start to say, okay, this existence

42:08

I've had and the time that I've spent my life with God is starting. And it happened to me, guys. You know, it just became a routine.

42:16

It's just a routine, you know? And so, but I think God's calling us out of the routine because he wants to show us some amazing things, even in the midst of what we're getting ready to go through and what we're going through now.

42:26

And again, it's that sense of purpose that I don't just work a job. I, you know,

42:32

I have a job, but I'm going to impact the people that I'm working with. There's so many people I can reach. And again, it's just been a great ride this past two or three weeks.

42:40

I mean, people are being healed. Words are being confirmed. There's urgency. I'm excited.

42:47

I'm excited, man. No, for sure. And that love part, that's, man, that's what I had to learn. And I'm still learning.

42:54

It took me 10 years to understand that to love someone doesn't necessarily mean you affirm them.

42:59

And I equated the two. If I show you love, compassion, that means I'm affirming whatever it is

43:05

I might disagree with in your life. And those are two totally different things. And when Paul says, man, you are like a clanging symbol without love,

43:14

I've had the Lord speak to me and just go, and I've read that. And he goes, yeah, that's you. You're a clanging symbol when you don't approach it in love.

43:21

And it's hard for me because I'm a black and white person. I'm a, you know, kind of AB, like this is the truth.

43:28

This is what you need to know. I hadn't noticed that. But that has nothing to do with love, though.

43:34

What? Yeah. You know, I literally, I was reading the Bible one day and the Lord said, well, man, if you want to play it that way, then yeah, you deserve hell.

43:41

I guess I shouldn't have shown you love. He said that audibly? Whoa, no, no. The word said it.

43:47

I was reading. What is this, like, gotcha podcast? Good Lord.

43:54

When I step into some landmines tonight, ladies and gentlemen, put me in the middle.

44:02

But yeah, that was, that was a tough one for me. When you, when you say with love, it's so important. It's so important because sometimes it's very easy to leave that behind and just go, this is the way it is.

44:14

And technically you're, you could be correct. You're speaking the truth. Yes. They might need to hear the truth, but if it's not done in love clanging symbol, man.

44:24

So yeah, when we're engaging, uh, and in doing it where you said he uses all those terms that are, that are warfare terms.

44:32

Yeah. They get me all riled up, but do it in love.

44:38

Yeah. What is that, man? That's, that's the dichotomy of Christ, man. Like a warrior and a lamb, right?

44:44

A lion and a lamb, one who gave up his life, but it's also coming back with fire in his eyes, sword in his hand, you know, tattoo on his thigh, man.

44:52

Love that. Listen to it. He's probably going to be listening to slick. No, just, just kidding. That's sacrilegious.

44:59

I was wielding that sword. Wolves at the gate. Wolves at the gate. Across the

45:04

East man. I'm waiting for it. Dude. There's some really heavy Christian bands are like really metal heavy.

45:10

Yeah. What was that? They're so good. Well, I just can't get into the new guys. I've kind of lost track guys, but I definitely lost track.

45:18

But yeah, there's a few that I sent me one. He sent me one. It was a screamo punk. Oh, the Luther's hammer.

45:24

Luther's hammer. Excuse me. That's heavy, man. Wait a minute. Reformed. Hold on. There's a band called

45:29

Luther's hammer. Yeah, man. These guys are real thing. It's straight up. Just like reformed lyrics.

45:35

And they just, they just rock. It's like, it's a little, it's probably more punk than anything, but I got to have a little melody, man.

45:43

I don't know. I can't do it. Yeah. And I'm more of a Zeppelin. See, I, I, whenever I think of my, uh, myself,

45:52

I, uh, listening to those kinds of that kind of music, I'm wearing like bear skin jacket.

45:58

Oh, you're the Trump shaman. And I have the, uh, and I have the ax in my hand. I got the sword on my belt.

46:08

You've been down too long in the midnight sea. What's becoming of me?

46:16

Well, you know, it's funny. It's my six year old. He goes, when it's Bible study time, he goes, holy Bible.

46:22

Does he really? Are you kidding? I showed him the song. We changed it to Holy Bible. That is awesome. Only in your house. Bringing them up.

46:27

Right. Only in your house. Could that happen? That's outstanding. Well, we totally derailed there at the end.

46:33

We tried to get serious for a little bit, but Hey, let's, let's, uh, let's do final thoughts. You got, you got anything else? First, Tim and final thoughts.

46:39

We're coming up on an hour here. Jason, how about you?

46:45

I would let Jason go first. Okay. My, my, uh, yeah, I, I think

46:50

I've spoken enough on this podcast, but I, but all I want is 20%.

46:59

That's um, uh, no, I, I just want to thank you, Tim, for, uh, for coming on and he's

47:04

God only wants 10%. I'm in trouble. Yeah.

47:10

But yeah, no, thanks so much for coming on. Thanks so much for talking on this subject because it really is something that all of us need to be thinking about.

47:18

And, uh, yeah, I'm right there with you. Let's let's get serious. Let's go get them, you know? Yeah. It's like getting the game.

47:24

Yeah. Let's get in the game. Let's not be passive Christians. Let's, you know, get in the word, know the word and speak truth when we're supposed to speak truth.

47:32

And I mean, yeah. Submit to authority, disciple others, love one another.

47:39

Discipleship is awesome, man. Remember, discipleship is awesome. It's just like,

47:44

I'm tired of American Christian church. It just says, come to church. We give you a little sermonette. We give you a couple songs and then nothing through the week.

47:52

Maybe you do a home group or something like that. That's great. But like we need to engage the culture. We're the ones that win in the end.

47:58

Christ is King. He's ruling and reigning on the thorn right now thrown thrown right now.

48:04

Yeah. I like that. That was pretty amazing. That was good. Yeah. Ruling over the thorn as well.

48:10

But it's like exactly what you said, man. Like it's time to get engaged. And church is going to look different this coming year or two in the next three to five years as well.

48:18

And it's like, what does that mean? I think it's exactly what Jason said too. And you like know the word, be under submission, love the

48:26

Lord, cast aside all the idols in your life and just pursue Him. And I'll tell you what, one of my favorite quotes by Charles Spurgeon is the sovereignty of God is the velvet pillow that I rest my head on in times of trouble.

48:40

And it's like, he's in control, man. Like he knows exactly what he's doing.

48:46

And if I can be part of that, part of that process. However, this thing comes to the end when, like we're saying,

48:54

Christ is riding across the sky on his horse. I want to be part of that. You know, and man,

49:01

I don't know. I think this was a timely word for us to talk about. As always, we appreciate you guys listening as well too.

49:08

Did you have anything before we wrap up here, Tim, or no? No, just how grateful I am for your ministry, for both you guys. I appreciate your heart.

49:15

Geez, ministry, that's a strong word. I know, right? Who would have thought? Easy with that M word. I know.

49:21

I didn't mean to ruin your podcast. No, it's all good.

49:27

We're a ministry, Jason! We're about to pass around that plate. No, that's awesome.

49:36

No, man, it's been an honor. I appreciate you guys. Thank you so much. Yeah, absolutely. So guys, for those of you listening, we've had a lot of feedback on Pocket Cast, which is odd.

49:46

I got like four or five comments on there. We're obviously on Apple and, I mean, where you can get the podcast.

49:53

Obviously, Apple, Google, Pandora, all those places. You can find us on Facebook. Well, I don't know if we're on Parler still.

49:59

Are they shut down? What's going on with that? I haven't done anything there in the last couple of weeks. Yeah, they haven't come back yet. I'm sure we're going to get taken down from there.

50:05

There was a couple of people. We had Dr. Michael Brown on a few months ago, and he made some comments on the LGBTQ movement, uploaded it to YouTube, and my comment section is already full there just for speaking the

50:17

Bible, and he does it in love. I don't know if you're familiar with Dr. Michael Brown, but I mean, the guy is like, you know, gentle giant when it comes to that, but he speaks the truth.

50:25

Yeah, he's amazing. I love Dr. Brown. So yeah, make sure you follow us there. We always love reviews too. That always helps.

50:30

Bring glory to God by telling a friend. Jason, do you have anything else? Later. God bless.