February 20, 2019 Show with David W. Virtue on “The Episcopal Church: Has It Sunk Too Deeply Into Darkness to Be Rescued?”

The Program Introduction and the Gospel of Proverbs 27:17

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This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 20th day of February 2019. And I am so delighted to have for the very first time ever on my program today David W. Virtue.

David actually, even though he is an Anglican, he was a high recommendation, an enthusiastic recommendation for a guest by my very first pastor, Mike Gaydosh. Mike Gaydosh is the founder of solid-ground-books .com and Mike sent me a copy of David's book, The Episcotape Letters, which is a takeoff on the C .S. Lewis classic, The Screwtape Letters.

And he said, you really should get this guy on your program, Chris. So I did a little investigation. I spoke to the publisher, Jim Brewster, and Jim put me in contact with David Virtue and providentially now we have this program underway right now live.

And David W. Virtue is founder of an Episcopalian and Anglican online news service for Orthodox Anglicans worldwide, reaching nearly 4 million readers in 204 countries called VirtueOnline .org. He's the author of four books, including A Flame for Justice, A Vision of Hope, Homosexuality, Good and the Right in the Eyes of God?

The Wedding of Truth to Compassion and Reason to Revolution, and The Episcotape Letters, which I just mentioned before, a series of satirical essays on the state of the Episcopal Church and their implications for the wider Anglican communion.

Today we are going to be addressing the theme, the Episcopal Church, has it sunk too deeply into darkness to be rescued? And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time as our guest on Iron Shepherd's Iron Radio, David W. Virtue.

David Virtue's Conversion, Education, and Anglican Ministry

Oh, thank you for that very kind introduction. And it was such a pleasure meeting you face to face at the last Iron Shepherd's Iron Radio pastor's luncheon that I held here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, several months ago, back in December actually.

And it was a joy to meet you in person. And it was such a providential occurrence that a bishop in a conservative Anglican congregation, who I had never met or heard from before, showed up at the luncheon.

And when I told him, did you know that David W. Virtue is here? He lit up like a Christmas tree and wanted to meet you immediately. Yeah, well, I'm glad that you did. And I'm going to write off the bat, give our email address for anybody who wants to join us on the air with a question of your own about Episcopalianism, about Anglicanism.

Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. That's C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. Please give us at least your first name, your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Please only remain anonymous if your question is involving a personal and private matter. Perhaps you are Episcopalian yourself and you have some criticisms that you want to raise about the very denomination that you're in or the congregation that you're in and you don't feel comfortable identifying yourself publicly.

Well, that's obvious that you might want to remain anonymous, so we would allow that. Perhaps you are an whether you should remain in that denomination or communion or perhaps you vehemently disagree with our guest today.

Whatever the reason is that you want to remain anonymous, we will grant that if it is about a personal and private matter. But please, if it's a general question on theology, on doctrine, of Episcopalianism, on Anglicanism, please at least give us your first name, city and state and country of residence if you live outside the USA.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. David, one thing that we typically do on Iron Trip and Zion Radio when we have a first time guest is we have that guest give us a summary of how they came to vitality and vibrant discipleship in Christianity, in how they became born again, how they became followers of Christ and declarers of the scriptures.

We'd like to know something about your upbringing, what kind of religious atmosphere, if any, you were raised in, and what providential circumstances were raised up in your life by our sovereign God to draw you to himself to the point where you are today.

Question, I'll try to give you a short answer. I was born and raised among the Plymouth non-denominational, though they were big fine musicians. At a very early age I accepted Christ as my savior when I was really a child.

Like my testimony, I've known the scriptures all my life and I've been maybe wise under salvation, been down on drugs and rock and roll and the whole. My upbringing was solidly Christian. I accepted in the Plymouth and then I went off to England to study theology at London Bible College or London University back in the 60s.

I went on to do graduate studies at Trinity Evangelical. I then graduated from Regent College in Vancouver, British Columbia. I became the religion editor. I was awarded a Doctor of Divinity degree by Lord's Seminary for my writing, and I was in London by John Stott of J .I. Packer.

And then I came under really quite the influence of Michael Green and his books, who was probably the most vibrant evangelical or, in my view, Anglican evangelist of the 20th century. He just died a few weeks ago at the age of 89.

He was really, he'd written about 50 books and his books have really become the standard text for many, many evangelicals, including, I might add, Dr. Rickard. You know, the purpose is to see John Stott before he died and wrote to me and said, no man has influenced me more than John Stott.

And I think the cumulative effect of what 30 years ago, and I watched even that church go down the drain over homosexuality, and a few years back, I became an Anglican. I joined the Anglican Church of North America, joined my local dietary and to act the Anglican Church of North America.

My bishop is Julia Dobbs. We started a small congregation in Germantown, Pennsylvania, not far from here. We have about 25 faithful souls. We're small. We don't pretend to be big. We're trying to make inroads into a new community.

Anglicanism, Episcopalianism, and the Church of England Divide

Well, there are, as you know, a wide spectrum of beliefs and ideologies of worship and so on that go under the umbrella of both Episcopalianism and Anglicanism. First of all, some might think that the only difference between Episcopalianism and Anglicanism is that Anglicanism, after or during the Revolutionary War here in the United States in the 18th century, many of the Anglican churches changed their names to Episcopalian because they didn't want to be identified with England during that war.

And they might think that there is no difference at all. Before we get into the left-wing, right-wing spectrum, what's the difference, in your opinion, between.

An Episcopalian and an Anglican? Well, truthfully, the Anglican branch of the Anglican Communion is the Church of Brazil, is part of the Anglican Church. Part of the Anglican Church communion, the Anglican communion, and now there's been a split in America.

Sexuality and the ordination of a gay person. You have two branches. You have the Anglican Church in North America and the Episcopalian Church. In a sense, all of them use the same Book of Common Prayer.

Some use the 29th, the 15th century. In terms of worship, what they believe separates the two groups from each other. The Anglican Church in North America is recognized by Catholicism, and that's what we have is two jurisdictions in North America.

And as far as the left versus right distinctions, I mean, you do have, as I already mentioned, a wide spectrum there because even on the right side of the divide amongst Anglicans and Episcopalians, you have those that are high church Oxford movement, Anglo-Catholics, which, in my opinion, having been raised a Roman Catholic and having come to saving faith and abandoned and repented of what I believe is an idolatrous religion with a false gospel, I have great problems with the Anglo-Catholic communion.

I don't know if you are thinking that I'm too severe on that, but you also have solid, thoroughly reformed, even very Calvinistic, Anglicans that embrace the 39 Articles. When I have read the 39 Articles on a number of times, I consider myself to be more Anglican than many Episcopalians and Anglicans.

That I've met. So, where do you land in that spectrum? My Anglo-Catholic ecclesiology, that I do, with the evangelical wing, if you go to England, the vast number of bishops and priesthoods will call themselves evangelical.

They come out of the Lambeth tradition, Canterbury tradition, and George Carey was an evangelical. There have been Anglo-Catholics, there is this to become Roman Catholics, and they don't like that at all.

Real Anglo-Catholics, I don't... Yes, and I'm assuming that you have to be careful, though, about.

Being... treating the issue in a broad-brushing way, either with an accepting view or a critical view. You have to be careful about being... lumping everybody into the same basket, because of their label, perhaps.

But I take very seriously the Gospel of the Reformation, which I believe is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and I am somewhat, perhaps more leery than you are about the Anglo-Catholics, but I'm willing to have a conversation with them anytime they're.

Willing to sit down with me. Yes, the real enemy of our souls are the revisionists that I simply do not share, and while I don't... As far as your book, let's hear something about the Episcopate letters.

The Episcopate Letters as Satire Against Heresy

Well, what happened about 10 years ago, because the things that we're doing is so... And just as I began to reread C .F. Lewis's The Screwtape Letters, I realized that that would be a great model to use to write what I call the Episcopate letters.

...style of Lewis, but not nearly as good of... Like reading this stuff, generally like satire, I think they're like a different kind of humor. Letters began to accumulate, and someone said to me about a year ago, why don't you put this out?

He read it, and said, I want... I probably think the reality is that this is one way to get at heresy by simply mocking it and showing it to be utterly absurd, and utterly defying David as the model, and if he can do it,.

Then... Well, you know, we actually already have a question submitted by your publisher that you just mentioned, Jim Brewster. I'll read it for you now. In fact, I have to enlarge it, because I'm just turned 57, and I'm going blind here, and the font that normally comes in on my computer is very tiny.

So, while I enlarge Jim Brewster's email, I'm going to repeat our email address for any of you that want to join us on the air. That's chrisarnsen at gmail .com, c-h-r-i-s a-r-n-z-e-n gmail .com.

Please give us, as always, your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence, if you live outside the USA, and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

That's chrisarnsen at gmail .com, chrisarnsen at gmail .com. Okay, we're going to be getting to Jim's email in just a second. Okay, my parents, 50 years, and I, K through 10, I'm not really sure what that means.

My parents, 50 years, I guess they've been married 50 years? I'm not really sure. My parents, 50 years, and I, K through 10, worshipped at the Cathedral of All Saints in the Diocese of Albany, New York.

I have heard that the bishops there have been involved in both sides of the church's dive into homosexual inclusion. Can you comment on that, please? The Diocese of Albany has not. They have.

Partially inhibited, refused at the last general convention of the Episcopal Church, he refused to go, mandated that all priests in the church, because if you didn't like it, you go and support you. He would not allow that.

He said, this is my diocese. I will not allow any homosexual marriages. It is allowing Satan to get a foot in there. He's allowed to still function. Any priest who wants to conduct, the only bishop, the only bishop in the Episcopal and Communion, partner bishops, he's the only bishop that's, he is angelical because he believes in the universality from other evangelical brothers, from the worst of appeals, by the way.

He's in violation of the church's teaching of marriage and sexuality. And by the way, Jim.

Brewster, I finally figured out what you meant by those numbers. Obviously, you meant that your parents worshipped at the Cathedral of All Saints in Albany for 50 years, and you did from kindergarten through the 10th grade.

Now, I understand what you meant. The Cathedral has gone through some.

Changes. A guy there who wasn't particularly evangelical seminary out in Ambridge and growing again. When the gay marriage thing came along, people did leave over that.

Apostasy, Scripture, and the Rise of Homosexual Inclusion

Well, obviously, the issue on homosexuality, the, not only the adoption of that unbiblical, unnatural and depraved and wicked behavior, damnable behavior, the acceptance of this didn't just fall out of a tree or pop out of nowhere.

This, obviously, has come from an abandonment by great numbers of authorities in the Episcopal Church and perhaps even Anglicans who no longer believed that the words of Scripture are God-breathed. They no longer believed in the inerrancy of Scripture.

They viewed the Scripture as something like somebody views a buffet in a cafeteria or a salad bar where you just walk past it and pick anything that you like and abandon the rest or overlook and leave behind the rest.

And this is really at the root of this whole problem. The homosexual issue is just the fruit of apostasy, isn't it?

Yes. It did not begin in the 90s. They passed a resolution. There were people living outside of the norm of marriage. We had to declare whether you're married or not, you're free to become an Episcopalian.

So they started to downgrade the marriage canon, going back at that thing to the point of saying that we must be inclusive. So that began the long and steady march towards LGBTQ, the whole range of sexualities, and from there it became apparent that the marriage canon would be allowed and that's been the slippery slope and that's where we're at today, just fornication and it ended up with homosexual marriage and really it's an abandonment, totally.

Graham, you can talk about killing anybody and school other than what the church...

Now would you say that the German higher critics and so on in the 19th century even predated what eventually began to erupt in a more openly and clearly recognizable perverse form in the late.

20th century? Well I think began to the resurrection, the Bible can't be trusted.

About sex. Well we have to go to our first break right now and if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own again, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Please, as always, give us your first name, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA, and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away, we will be right back after these messages with more of David Virtue. Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,.

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The Ordination of Women and the Slippery Slope Argument

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The Diocese of Albany, Homosexual Inclusion, and the Authority of Scripture

Welcome back. This is Chris Orenson. If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours, with about 90 minutes to go, is David W. Virtue, who is founder of virtueonline .org, which is an online news service for Orthodox Anglicans worldwide, reaching nearly 4 million readers in 204 countries.

If you'd like to join us on the air with your own question about our theme, the Episcopal Church, has it sunk too deeply into darkness to be rescued? Our email address is ChrisOrenson at gmail .com. ChrisOrenson at gmail .com.

And as always, give us your first name, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside the USA. And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

David, you have already addressed this, but perhaps you may want to add to it. We have a first-time questioner from Powder Springs, Georgia, in the Atlanta area, and this is Bruce, and he says, When and how was it clear that the Episcopal Church was going off the Christian track?

What exactly are their heresies? That might take more than the 90 minutes we have left.

What exactly are their heresies? Well, it's probably the 70s and 80s, who actually wound up dying in the Judean desert. His son committed suicide, and he tried to get in touch with them, involving spooks and stuff like that.

He questioned the resurrection. He questioned.

The miracles. Now, when you said involving spooks, so you took him at seances?

Yeah, yeah, seances. Somehow they had no stomach to put him on trial. John came along, and he went right off the deep end and had his 12 theses, which denied every single doctrine we know. He denied the resurrection of Jesus.

He denied the virgin birth. He became, in effect, a Unitarian, and put these guys on trial and made them heretics. Going off the track story, have all been basically heretical bishops or convention resolutions, Trump scripture, and that's where the gay marriage.

He's a general, getting progressively worse, going back to James Pike, and then progressive New York, 25 years, steady and ongoing.

Well, thank you, Bruce. Please give us your full mailing address in Powder Springs, Georgia, because you have just won a free copy of the Episcopate Letters, compliments of our guest today. Please get that to us as soon as you can, and cvbbs .com, cvbbs .com, which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

They will ship that out to you at no charge to you or to Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio. And we'd also like to give another plug to J2B Publishing, who published the Episcopate Letters. And the, let's see here, we have another listener.

We have Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania. And she says, although I am a woman, I am very opposed to the ordination of women. I see it as a clear prohibition from the words of scripture. Is not the allowance of the ordination of women opening up and has it already not opened up the wickedness when we see homosexuals being ordained right and left and all other kinds of atrocities taking place because of the very hermeneutic use to permit women into ministry leadership appears to be used as well by those who are ordaining homosexuals?

That's a very good question. In fact, yeah, I mean, a lot of the times, and of course, not everybody uses the same rhetoric or apologetic, but you have liberals who ordain homosexuals who will say, well, the prohibitions in the Bible and the Old Testament, and even in the New Testament by the Apostle Paul, these are cultural things that gave rise to these prohibitions.

It has nothing to do with the loving monogamous relationships we have in the 21st century. You'll have things like that. And the same kind of hermeneutic is very often used by those who believe in the ordination of women.

So if you want to respond to that, David.

Well, we call it the slippery slope theory, which seemed to be a, I believe, a minority position now. Even in conservative Anglicanism? Yes, even in conservative Anglican ordination.

Now to further clarify, when you say that you're in the minority, it seemed that you were just saying in your explanation, when it went on further, that the view of the ordination of women amongst conservative evangelicals, perhaps even more precise, if you will, Calvinistic 39 articles Anglicans, the ordination of women, the allowance for that would be a minority view.

Oh, very much a minority view. Yes, they went into the Old Testament, basically for centuries anyway, into the pottery, he came out of the church, but he never saw them playing any significant role that they have claimed for themselves today, done any better than the men have.

Well, thank you, Susan, Margaret, you have won a free copy as well of the Episcopal.

Tape Letters by our guest today, David W. Virtue. And please give us your full mailing address in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania. So that's cvbbs .com. Our sponsors can ship that out to you at no charge to you or to Orange Urban's Iron Radio.

We have CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, who says, you have repeated the use of the term priest. I'm hoping that you use it in a different sense than the Church of Rome does, where they actually are involved in their minds anyway, in the transubstantiation of bread and wine into the literal body and blood of Christ.

You do not believe in a sacrifice of the mass, and hence use the term priest, because of that,.

Do you? I think that's a misunderstanding, a slightly different view of crime, rather.

Now, the Reformed Baptists such as myself and many other conservative evangelicals, perhaps especially those that are Calvinistic like myself, outside of Anglicanism, object to the word priest, because we see the only priest in the New Testament as the priesthood of believers.

But you're using it, and to my understanding, the Anglicans that use the term are using it because of a Greek term, presbyteros? Yes. And I may be mispronouncing that. Presbyteros. Yeah, there you.

Go. So am I right on that? Is that why you use that term? Yeah, I would prefer to travel down the laity, like the laity was the bottom of the heap, and there were nobodies. See, the matter is that the laity is the bottom of the heap.

But I might point out, without the laity, you don't have a church. You see, my priesthood will always be apostate. Well, we are going to our midway.

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The Ordination of Women, Priesthood, and the Laity

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Particular Baptist Church of San Angelo, Texas, and I'm thrilled to have joined the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio family of sponsors. We fully subscribe to the Second London Baptist Confession of Faith as a faithful summary of the most vital biblical truths, desire to worship the triune God of the Holy Scriptures in spirit and truth, and seek to make His glory known in the Concho Valley, West Texas, and beyond.

Sovereign Grace PBC of San Angelo purposes to center our worship on the Holy Scriptures and the Gospel of Jesus Christ in the hope that He will grow us in love and the unity of truth. After Sunday services, join us for a fellowship meal, followed by our Ladies Fellowship in our Children's Sunday School Class.

If you're looking for a church in West Texas that's serious about the Word of God and worship that pleases Him, come visit us. For details about Sovereign Grace Particular Baptist Church of San Angelo, Texas, email sgbcsa at gmail .com or visit us at sgbcsa .com.

That's sgbcsa .com. Hello, my name is James Renahan and I'm the President of IRBS.

Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas. The Word of God says, if a man desires the office of an overseer, he desires a good thing. Do you have the desire to serve Jesus Christ in pastoral ministry? 20 years ago, the Institute of Reformed Baptist Studies at Westminster Seminary, California was born.

For those two decades, these institutions worked together to train men for ministry in Reformed Baptist churches. It has been a wonderful partnership. Now we have advanced our school into an independent seminary offering a full program of courses leading to the Master of Divinity degree.

This is IRBS Theological Seminary. We believe that the scriptures of Old and New Testaments are the inspired and inerrant Word of God, that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh who came to save sinners by his life, death, and resurrection, and that the task of the church is to honor and serve the Triune God in all things.

IRBS Theological Seminary is dedicated by God's grace to preparing godly ministers who will be committed to these doctrines. Do you sense a call to serve Jesus Christ and his church as a pastor? Why not consider IRBS Theological Seminary?