The Remnant?

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February 6, 2025

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02:55: Well, greetings. Thank you for being here, whether you are a regular or the algorithm brought you our way.
03:02: And an especially warm welcome if this is your first time with us Adventist or otherwise. So my question of the night, according to scripture, what is the mission of the
03:18: Christian church? According to scripture, what is the mission of the
03:23: Christian church? If you are new to this platform, you might be wondering what answering
03:29: Adventism is all about and why does such a thing need to even exist? You don't see answering
03:35: Baptists, answering Presbyterians, et cetera. And these are great questions. Central to the mission of this platform is to equip as many
03:43: Christians as possible to reach as many Seventh -day Adventists as possible with the gospel.
03:49: In order to do such, one must understand that Seventh -day Adventism brings with it a novel worldview, a worldview that is not shared by Christians.
03:58: I talk about this a lot around here and for good reason. As I've shown many times, it is their unique worldview that informs all of Seventh -day
04:06: Adventist theology. That would include their theology around the church, what is called ecclesiology, which is what we're gonna be getting into tonight.
04:14: If you are a Christian and you interact with the Seventh -day Adventists, there is a good chance that you will be treated charitably, including them putting out the vibe that you're both
04:22: Christians on the same team, et cetera. However, what must be understood is that while the majority of Adventists are sincere, well -meaning people, the claims made by individual
04:34: Adventists do not always reflect the organization's official claims, statements, and beliefs.
04:41: This platform is about examining organizational matters, not every individual
04:46: Adventist in the world, which is why tonight we're gonna be exploring whether or not Seventh -day
04:52: Adventism as a church is united with the Christian church, sharing in the same mission and message, or if there's actually a fundamental divide on these core issues.
05:03: With me to discuss tonight is my friend and pastor, Jeremiah Nortier from 12 .5
05:10: Church in Jonesboro, Arkansas. Also, we're gonna be assisted by SDA president, Ted Wilson, as he shares with us some
05:17: Adventist distinctives when it comes to their proposed identity as God's last day remnant.
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06:06: Brother, thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me on again.
06:11: Is this number three? I know we talked about the heavenly trio maybe a year or so ago.
06:18: That's correct. This is actually number four. We talked about the parallels between Adventism and the church of Christ.
06:26: We talked about the heavenly trio. And then you were here with Dr. Boyce to talk about restorationism versus reformation, the difference between the two.
06:36: That was an excellent episode. I always learn something from Dr. Boyce every time I listen to him. I know, I love him.
06:41: He caused so many Adventists to melt down because of his Anglo -Catholicism, which was rather interesting.
06:47: We've seen a lot of feedback regarding him and his handling of scripture. But nevertheless,
06:54: I'll be curious tonight to hear your pastoral insight as we look at some claims from the SDA church and listen to their president talk about their fundamental belief, specifically fundamental belief number 13.
07:05: I'll be curious to hear your pastoral insights, but along the way, I also hope to be able to leave not just the audience with a better understanding on this issue, but also you as a pastor.
07:15: So I will be connecting some dots along the way, helping to put some skin on the bones, if you will. Sound good?
07:21: Yes, absolutely. All right, so to start though, let's do a couple of icebreakers here to set the stage.
07:28: What is your answer as a pastor to the question of the night? According to scripture, what is the mission of the
07:35: Christian church? So there's two passages in mine, Ephesians four and Matthew 28.
07:41: The primary mission for the ecclesia, the church, is to equip the saints for the good work of ministry.
07:50: So that's primary. Saints or church are for the saints, not the aints. Okay, people don't understand that.
07:55: They gear their services and their liturgy, really their lack thereof, for goats.
08:01: And it's like, look, this is for the saints. This is for the edification. We get a taste of heaven. Do people get saved in the midst?
08:07: Absolutely, but the mission of the church is to equip the saints for the good work so that the saints can be sent out into the world to fulfill the great commission, to go and baptize in the sovereign triune name, and to learn all of what
08:22: Christ has told us to do. So that would answer it that way, Myles. Amen.
08:29: One thing here, sorry, I'm trying to get one thing set up that is broken on my end.
08:35: There we go. I love Baptists and you guys have the best sort of like,
08:40: I don't know what that's formally called, but the like you said, it's for the saints, not the aints. I love that.
08:47: I think there's a lot of love to our Baptist world over here. For sure, we're gonna talk a little bit about, we're gonna talk a little bit about, well, the differences between Baptists, Presbyterians, et cetera, a little bit later.
09:00: But one other thing that I wanna point out here is specifically Luke chapter 24.
09:07: You mentioned Matthew 28, and this is somewhat of a parallel, but there's a lot we could look at on this, obviously, but my mind goes to the tail end of Luke 24.
09:18: After his resurrection, the Lord Jesus is with his disciples. He's about to ascend and take his throne, but before doing so, he leaves them with the
09:25: Christian mission. Notice folks, he says, then he said to them, these are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the law of Moses and the prophets and the
09:39: Psalms must be fulfilled. Then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures and said to them, thus it is written, that the
09:49: Christ should suffer on the third day, rise from the dead, or end on the third day, rise from the dead, and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in the name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
10:05: You are witnesses of these things, and behold, I'm sending the promise of my father upon you, but stay in the city until you're clothed with power from on high.
10:14: And thus the reading of God's holy word. So Jeremiah, like I said, you are a
10:19: Baptist, I am a Presbyterian, yet despite our differences, we are united in the same mission that Jesus left the apostles with.
10:28: As the Old Testament foretold of the person and work of Jesus, which is what the gospel most specifically is, the good news about the person and work of Jesus, who he is and what he accomplished, followed by how you as a sinner can turn to him and receive him for the forgiveness of your sins.
10:49: And the mission of Christ followers is to take this message to all nations, tribes, tongues, peoples, et cetera.
10:56: Same thing we see in Matthew 28 with the Great Commission, take the gospel to the nations, baptizing them in the name of the triune
11:03: God, teaching them to obey all that Christ commanded. Ultimately, the church exists to one, spread the gospel, two, equip believers, and three, glorify
11:13: God in all things. All of that is summed up in the singular mission Jesus gave the church.
11:19: Now I have a second question. Did Jesus leave the church with multiple missions or just a single mission?
11:31: The Great Commission sums it up. And I look at it as two parts. People think that discipleship is getting somebody in the church to be baptized and all right, we got to rinse and repeat.
11:43: And it's like the second half is to teach them to obey all that is commanded. So maybe you can teach me something here, but I mean, there's a single -mindedness in the
11:54: Great Commission, but that covers a multitude of things that the New Testament tells us to do. So my reason for asking this is gonna become more apparent as we get further into tonight.
12:03: You're gonna see why I'm asking this, because there's a little bit of nuance here and I wanna clarify. So folks, the church has one primary mission, to glorify
12:15: God by making disciples of Jesus Christ, Matthew 28, 18 through 20. However, this mission expresses itself in multiple ways.
12:26: Including one, evangelism. So sharing the gospel with unbelievers, Matthew 16, 15.
12:32: Two, discipleship, teaching and equipping believers to grow in faith, Colossians 1, 28.
12:39: Third, worship, honoring and glorifying the triune God in all aspects of life.
12:44: So John 4, 23 through 24. Four, service and compassion, mercy, if you will, meeting physical and spiritual needs.
12:53: So Matthew 25, 35 through 40. Five, fellowship and community. So encouraging and strengthening the body of Christ, Hebrews 10, 24 through 25 is an example.
13:03: And then six, defending the faith, apologetics, upholding biblical truth against false teachings, 1
13:09: Peter 3, 15, Jude 3, et cetera. So these are not separate missions, but different facets of the one mission
13:18: Christ gave to his church. Everything the church does should ultimately be in harmony with this.
13:25: So Jesus did not leave the church with multiple missions. He left one mission, and that single mission expresses itself in multiple ways.
13:33: Might be a small nuance, but it's an important one, and we're gonna see why shortly. Anything you'd like to add to that?
13:39: Yeah, you had me sweating. I was like, did I forget another second mission that Jesus gave? Well, I'm glad that you said that because we're gonna transition here now to listening to our clips.
13:49: I know that that was a very short laying of the foundation, but that's important before we get into this. I wanna listen to Ted Wilson explain the
13:56: SDA church's 13th fundamental belief, which is titled the remnant and its mission, okay?
14:02: And we're gonna get into this, and we're gonna test what he says against what we just talked about to examine our question of the night, if you will.
14:11: So with that said, let's get into it. The remnant appears throughout the
14:17: Bible, and probably one of the most well -known stories is that of Noah and the ark.
14:24: It was during a time of great wickedness as described in Genesis 6, verse five and verse 11.
14:32: Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
14:42: The earth also was corrupt before God and the earth was filled with violence.
14:48: But we are told in verse eight, Noah found grace in the eyes of the
14:55: Lord. God told Noah of his plan to destroy the earth with a flood and explained there would be a way of escape for everyone who chose to accept
15:05: God's grace through faith and obedience. Noah was to build an enormous ark, inviting all to come inside where they would be safe from the coming storm.
15:21: For 120 years, Noah preached, but in the end, only eight people chose to be saved,
15:29: Noah and his family. They were the remnant. In the last days, right before Jesus returns to earth to take his followers to heaven, a similar situation will happen again.
15:43: Jesus tells us in Matthew chapter 24, verse 37, but as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the son of man be.
15:57: The world will be filled with wickedness, but those who trust and believe God will remain strong amidst the world's influence, rejecting its self -serving ways and embracing
16:10: God's ways. All right, so Jeremiah, the
16:15: SDA church loves making Noah a type or a picture of all sorts of things.
16:22: Noah is supposed to be a picture of the end times regarding the remnant and salvation because Jesus says, as it was in the days of Noah, so also will the coming of the son of man be.
16:33: What are your thoughts on what he said? And was that what Jesus was saying in Matthew 24, 37?
16:40: So I was thinking about this earlier and it's wild that I'm learning from you that this is such a huge emphasis with the
16:49: Adventist. So I wanna say when we look at the Olivet Discourse, yes, at the coming of the son of man, there's going to be swift judgment.
16:59: I think that is really what we're supposed to glean from the times of Noah. I mean, a lot of people look at this as a proof text for people are gonna be snatched, one left at the mill.
17:07: It's like, oh, people are gonna be smited at the second coming of Christ. And so that's what's going on here in the
17:16: Olivet Discourse as it relates to Noah. To go beyond that is more than what the text is actually telling us.
17:23: And so as we're gonna continue to hear him talk about the word remnant, right? Remainder, essentially those that are called out or distinguished,
17:32: I want us to talk about the scripture has a very pointed definition of what the remnant actually looked like.
17:38: Yeah, like I said, they love to use the story of Noah for all sorts of things. We're gonna see the story of Noah mentioned later in a source that I'm gonna bring up.
17:48: But I find it somewhat ironic that the same Ted Wilson, like I've shown numerous times before, loves saying that the only approved hermeneutic of the
17:55: SDA church is the historical grammatical method. Yet they constantly allegorize historical events like Noah, basically engaging in the same allegorical hermeneutic that became widespread during the middle ages.
18:09: It was obviously around before then with the likes of expositors like Origen and Cyril of Alexandria, like the
18:16: Eastern fathers. But I just find it somewhat comical that the SDA church is basically using the story of Noah the same way they are only, they aren't talking about the
18:24: Orthodox church or even the Roman Catholic church for that matter, who they use the Ark as an example of.
18:30: If you're outside the Ark, you're drowning in the water, you need to join their church because their church is symbolized by the Ark and those sorts of things.
18:36: So, all right, let's continue listening to what he says. This end time remnant is often what is being referred to when you hear about the remnant.
18:48: And it is described in our 13th fundamental belief, the remnant and its mission.
18:55: The universal church is composed of all who truly believe in Christ. But in the last days, a time of widespread apostasy, a remnant has been called out to keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
19:11: This remnant announces the arrival of the judgment hour, proclaim salvation through Christ and heralds the approach of his second advent.
19:23: This proclamation is symbolized by the three angels of Revelation 14.
19:29: It coincides with the work of judgment in heaven and results in a work of repentance and reform on earth.
19:39: Every believer is called to have a personal part in this worldwide witness.
19:46: You see, this fundamental belief is based solidly on the Bible. And you can read the
19:52: Bible passages and more about it at the URL shown below.
20:01: Okay, so by based on the Bible, Jeremiah, you can think of that in the same way that a movie is based on a true story.
20:10: It isn't an exact representation of the history, but it uses real historical events, landmarks, names, et cetera, to then present an adaptation of that where they take liberty to, you know, dramatize things and spice it up for film, et cetera.
20:26: Because what he's really getting at is they point to proof texts in the Bible and then they plug in Ellen G.
20:33: White's dogmatic assertions about those texts, along with all the fanciful, elaborate extra details that she brings that are not found in the
20:42: Bible. But before I break some things down here, he read and gave a small overview of their 13th fundamental belief titled the remnant and its mission.
20:50: As an outsider looking in, what all did you hear him saying? Yeah, so the word remnant is what
20:59: I'm starting to hear. I'm starting to piece the pieces together. I'm starting to see them come together and saying like the
21:05: Seventh -day Adventist church, they are the remnant. And I'm sure he's gonna say, we gotta join them.
21:11: They're the true remnant. And we are the ones that maybe have apostatized and all the other things. And so this sounds real similar, like you were saying earlier, for those cult -like groups that are saying, hey, you gotta join our church.
21:24: We are the one true church. Miles, I engage a lot with the Church of Christ.
21:30: It's a similar mindset as you gotta be baptized in the one true Church of Christ, Romans 16, 16, the
21:38: Churches of Christ. And then they don't probably greet one another with the holy kiss, like the verse goes on to say. But the word remnant,
21:44: I would not go to revelation to build that doctrine. I do wanna do a quick book plug.
21:51: Our God Reigns by Sam Storms, just a good resource. As we're looking at the book of Revelation with the grammatical historical method of interpretation, with the historic redemptive understanding that the clearer text give more light than the unclear text.
22:10: And one of the places we point to first is saying, look, Revelation, prophetic apocalyptic literature, okay.
22:16: We're gonna take that genre into account. And so we're talking about the word remnant. I know in the clip he does give a general understanding of the definition of the word remnant as remainder or kind of a part of the whole.
22:30: But maybe this is a good time. I would say rather than going to Revelation, that's very symbolic and there's some wonderful truths that exalts
22:39: Christ as King. I would say in the book of Romans, which is very clear didactic teaching, we see how the
22:47: Apostle Paul uses the word remnant on a couple of different occasions. And I wanna say there is a way to know who the remnant, who the elect in the true church of God actually is, true saints.
23:02: And so the verse that you have pulled up here, quoting the Old Testament. So this is true Old Testament.
23:07: This is just as true then as it is today. Isaiah cries out concerning Israel.
23:13: And I just wanna pause. Earlier in Romans chapter nine, not all Israel, physical nationalistic
23:21: Israel is of the true Israel of God. So Isaiah cries out concerning Israel.
23:27: Though the Israelites have been like the sand of the sea, only the remnant will be saved.
23:34: And so we have to say timeout. The Apostle Paul has already been talking about what salvation looks like.
23:41: Justification is by faith apart from works. And so if you do wanna scroll down on the passage, look with me at verse 30.
23:49: What shall we say? That the Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it. That is a righteousness that is by faith.
23:58: Paul is echoing the groundwork that he's already laid earlier in the book of Romans.
24:03: So verse 32, why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it was based on works.
24:12: He continues to talk about the true remnant of God are those that are justified by faith alone.
24:20: But it's a real faith. It's a heart that trust in Christ alone all to the glory of God alone.
24:27: And so what I'm hearing with the Seventh -day Adventists, because I've looked into them before, is there is a strong emphasis on keeping the
24:36: Sabbath. And I say, time out, that is a law. And so if you're saying that you are the one true church by your
24:42: Sabbath keeping and rules, I'm like, that is echoing the old covenant, which is a covenant of works and is a covenant of condemnation and a covenant of death.
24:54: We are a part of a better covenant that saves to the uttermost. And it is like we would have some shared commonality here.
25:01: We are saved by a covenant of grace, not a covenant of works. And so I do wanna just point out one more verse as we're looking at Romans.
25:09: Look with me at Romans 11, starting in verse five. So to at the present time, there is a remnant, okay?
25:19: But they are chosen by grace, not by your Sabbath law keeping. But if it is by grace, it is no longer miles on the basis of works.
25:28: Otherwise, grace would no longer be grace. And so it's an odd way to say we're the remnant.
25:36: We gotta go to revelation to build that case when Paul has been echoing old Testament passages showing us that God is crucified by faith alone in Christ alone.
25:51: And then they live to the glory of God. Amen, bro. And you pointed out something super important there.
25:58: Shout out to Sam Storms. I love Sam Storms. You pointed out just kind of a fundamental hermeneutics 101 type thing, which is that the unclear passages do not trump when it comes to sound hermeneutics, the clear passages.
26:12: We interpret the unclear in light of the clear, not the other way around. Now, what you're gonna find in Seventh -day
26:18: Adventism is they think the unclear is crystal clear because as the remnant, they claim that God has given them special prophetic insight that no one else has.
26:27: So it's crystal clear to them. But then you'll find that the clear passages are actually obscure.
26:33: They're really hard to understand. When Paul says in Galatians 1, there's only one gospel, any other gospels cursed by God.
26:41: I've heard all sorts of answers to that. Well, Paul was trained in a legal sort of context.
26:47: And so to understand him is really difficult because of his training and his background and these sorts of things.
26:54: Well, I wanted to code here what all was said by Ted Wilson because there was a lot. And if you were not trained in the
27:01: SDA dictionary, you're not gonna catch it. They mentioned universal church, a remnant, keeping the commandments, et cetera.
27:08: Now, you aren't gonna get the gist of that in the clip because the wording of the fundamental belief is loaded.
27:14: The investigative judgment was weaseled in there. Their unlawful use and handling of the law gets a nod.
27:20: Ellen White gets nestled in there and a bunch of other things. But folks, let's read this again.
27:28: The universal church is composed of all who truly believe in Christ, but in the last days, a time of widespread apostasy, a remnant has been called out to keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
27:40: This remnant announces the arrival of the judgment hour, proclaim salvation through Christ and heralds the approach of his second advent.
27:48: This proclamation is symbolized by the three angels of Revelation 14. It coincides with the work of judgment in heaven and results in a work of repentance and reform on the earth.
28:00: Every believer is called to have a personal part in this worldwide witness.
28:06: And then you get all their proof texts. So I wanna point out a couple of things. Highlighted are buzzwords or phrases that are loaded in their system.
28:15: Interestingly, they almost have an adaptation of the visible, invisible church distinction going on here.
28:22: The universal church is composed of people like Jeremiah and I, but the Bible allegedly teaches that there's an end times remnant called out from the universal church, which is an apostasy,
28:36: AKA we are spiritual Babylon. How is this you might ask? Because we allegedly don't keep the 10 commandments and have the faith of Jesus.
28:46: By the phrase faith of Jesus, they mean the teachings of Jesus, which they assert to be their entire system of theology, as I'm gonna show in a little bit.
28:56: Secondly, nestled into the word remnant is Ellen White, as we will see in a moment regarding their interpretation of Revelation 12, 17.
29:05: But then we also see the quote announcement of his judgment hour, which is coming from Revelation 14, as well as the work of judgment in heaven,
29:14: AKA the investigative judgment. And then the final sentence, every believer is called to come join them and share this restored faith of Jesus, which includes the investigative judgment.
29:27: But without even understanding what all is nestled underneath the buzzwords, we can clearly see that the mission of the
29:33: SDA movement is different than that of the Christian church. The Christian church is supposedly apostate and rejected by God.
29:41: We need to come out from where we are and join them as the remnant in their unique proclamation of a special message that only they have.
29:50: In fact, like we're gonna see, part of this unique message includes the call for Christians to leave their church and join them as the remnant.
29:58: That's supposedly there in Revelation 14. John was telling his original audience about Protestantism being apostate and needing to leave your apostate
30:07: Protestant church and come join them. Now, we're gonna look at this more fully in a little bit, but I just wanted to highlight how much is actually being said that the average person on the surface is not gonna catch all the nuances of.
30:20: Any other thoughts after hearing that, my brother, before we keep listening? No, that was very good.
30:26: I know me and you have talked about the investigative judgment before, and I just wanna remind our audience what we're hearing in keeping the commandments.
30:35: This is totally going against the law gospel distinction.
30:42: We keep the commandments of God not to be a part of the remnant or to be saved, but because we are justified by faith alone in Christ alone, we desire to obey all of what
30:53: Christ has commanded for us in our sanctification as we long to be glorified one day.
30:59: Yeah, and they're gonna obviously take umbrage with like the way you worded that, cause they're gonna try and say, well, no, no, we don't keep the law to be saved.
31:07: And a little bit of a spoiler alert here for folks who have not seen, I just got done recording this past week, three long discussions with the guys over at Coltish, and the investigative judgment is one of the things that we ended up talking about.
31:22: And I explained this in more detail in that discussion, but they affirm what is called covenantal gnomism, which was a really popular in the sort of NT right, new perspective on Paul discussion.
31:33: Yes, is that just by faith, but where we maintain our right standing by our works once we're saved?
31:40: Bingo, bingo, you're in the covenant by grace through faith, it's all by grace, it's all by grace.
31:45: You're in by grace through faith, but then you're kept by obedience. And they'll tell you, well, it's just the fruit of being saved.
31:53: No, this is just a slippery way. You'll hear some SDA theologians use the language of, you have to meet the conditions of the gospel.
32:01: Jesus made something a possibility because they're not just synergists, they're like synergists on steroids.
32:07: Ellen White said, for example, Jesus opened the door to salvation, but now it made salvation a possibility, but he can really only be a savior if you empower him to be a savior.
32:18: If you come to him and you labor alongside him and do your part and these sorts of things. So yeah, covenantal gnomism folks is the teaching that you're in by grace, kept by obedience.
32:29: And that's ultimately what they're teaching here. And like you're noticing, I could show you a mountain of quotes where they essentially say the remnant is identified by those who keep the commandments.
32:38: And that's what they're gonna point to in the next verse that we're gonna look at in the next clip we're gonna play here.
32:44: Throughout history, God has always had a remnant of faithful ones.
32:50: Down through the centuries, thousands of martyrs have sealed their faith with their blood, especially during the prophetic 1 ,260 year period known as the dark ages.
33:06: Prophecy tells us the same persecuting power of the dark ages will rise again as a combined religious and political power in the last days.
33:17: And will once again, persecute those who will not bow to its demands.
33:24: But God has raised up a faithful last day remnant people who are identified in Revelation chapter 12, verse 17, a fantastic verse.
33:36: I love this verse. As those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
33:45: This faithful last day remnant is not some exclusive club. Everyone who loves the
33:52: Lord accepts the truth as found in his word. And by God's grace is willing to follow it fully is welcome to join
34:02: God's remnant people. Okay, so Jeremiah, little bit of a lead up here.
34:10: And then I'm gonna have a question for you. Okay. The claim here is that Revelation 12, 17, this is one of their favorite proof texts.
34:16: You're just gonna hear this beat into the ground in Adventism. That it's supposedly foretelling of the time just before the second coming where God will have a remnant people like he did in various ages past, with Noah and Elisha, et cetera.
34:29: They then state that this remnant can be identified as those who are keeping the 10 commandments and have the testimony of Jesus.
34:36: Therefore, since the end times began in 1798 and we live past then, that means we're in the last days.
34:46: So we can identify this remnant of people if we find the institution that has those two things.
34:53: I just wanna remind people that the SDA church claims that Ellen White's writings are divinely inspired and that they correct inaccurate interpretations of the
35:01: Bible, aka, she is supposedly an infallible interpreter. This looks a lot like paragraph 100 of the
35:08: Roman Catholic catechism, which in substance says the same thing. So Ellen White is functionally though, the sole
35:15: Adventist magisterium. Hence why I have Photoshopped a papal tiara on her head.
35:21: One of the many things she said regarding Revelation 12, 17, quote, "'And the dragon was wroth with the woman and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus,' Revelation 12, 17.
35:35: This prophecy points out clearly that the remnant church will acknowledge God in his law and will have the prophetic gift.
35:44: Obedience to the law of God and the spirit of prophecy has always distinguished the true people of God.
35:49: And the test is usually given on present manifestations."
35:55: Close quote. In other words, according to her interpretation or rather application, this end times remnant can be objectively identified as the group who one, keeps the 10 commandments and two, possesses the gift of prophecy.
36:10: More specifically on that second point, they possess a special prophetic word from Jesus himself, where he is speaking to their movement through an individual who has the gift of prophecy.
36:24: This they claim was manifested in Ellen G. White in her writings. Jesus is supposedly speaking there and they also keep the 10 commandments supposedly since they uphold the fourth commandment that everyone else allegedly has abandoned.
36:36: So my question for you, what is your response going to be to the
36:42: Adventist that knocks on your door and shares this with you in hopes of compelling you to come join the
36:48: SDA church? Well, I will find a way to talk to them about the gospel of grace.
36:55: But when they say the grammatical historical method of interpretation, I'm gonna say, oh, so context matters, right?
37:03: Oh yes, we love context, I'm sure. I mean, that's what I hear from the church of Christ until we explore these proof texts a little bit more and then it's usually we gotta go somewhere else.
37:12: And so revelation number one, apocalyptic prophetic literature, hey, we gotta interpret it as such.
37:18: But I will say earlier in chapter 12, I believe it's around verse nine, where we read about this great dragon that was thrown down, the ancient serpent who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world.
37:32: As we keep going back up, he was cast out of heaven. So Satan has been persecuting the people of God for a long time.
37:41: It didn't just start with Ellen G. White and those who remember to keep the Sabbath holy because I guess we just all forgot.
37:48: No, this is a context of spiritual warfare that the saints have always been under persecution.
37:54: So my first thought, if someone knocks on the door is we're gonna have to explore context. Yeah, and so here's the route
38:02: I always go just because I don't like getting into like, well, I don't agree with historicism and your sort of school of prophetic interpretation, which is a whole discussion in and of itself.
38:12: I just go along with them and explain, you guys don't keep the commandments. They have tunnel vision on the fourth commandment, yet they failed the test before even getting there.
38:23: Because as you saw, when you were with me before, they have a false God. The present day movement, while it has shifted on their semi -Aryan roots of the pioneers, they still have an idol, even if it's a different one than the pioneers.
38:38: So the two groups in Adventism, the pro -heavenly trio and the anti -heavenly trio crowd, they're just bickering back and forth over two idols.
38:45: So they don't even make it through the first commandment. But even that should give cause for concern. They're allegedly the remnant
38:51: God raised up to restore his church, yet he used heretics that didn't even believe in him to do so, giving a woman in the 19th century all sorts of visions on stuff that was in harmony with the semi -Aryanism of the movement at the time, only to eventually give her visions later on that would contradict those earlier visions, presenting a different understanding of God that's in focus.
39:16: Point being, even if we grant their theory and interpretation, they don't fit the bill for their own qualification.
39:23: But a second question for you, what would you argue the correct interpretation and application of Revelation 12, 17 is?
39:31: Because that's what the person who comes and knocks on your door is gonna say. Well, if it's not my interpretation, they kind of just view it as like, well, what
39:37: I'm claiming is just the default one. If you're gonna say it's not that, then prove to me what it's saying. Yeah, well,
39:44: I guess what I said a second ago is probably more apt to answer in the second question is expanding on context.
39:49: This is talking about how Satan has been primarily persecuting the church, right?
39:56: And so this gift of prophecy, man, we can talk, I would wanna talk about what it means to herald the truth of God, but it rests on those who are truly called out, who are truly set apart.
40:09: And that is by grace through faith in Christ alone. And so those are deeper presuppositions that I would press them on.
40:16: And I did wanna echo something you said just a second ago. I loved what you said. Basically ask them how they're doing in keeping those 10 commandments, right?
40:25: Because as they wanna focus in on the fourth, well, how are you doing in terms of loving your neighbor?
40:31: Right, because Jesus gets to the heart of the law. Oh, I don't do that perfectly. Oh, so you don't keep the law.
40:37: Well, I repent. Well, do you repent perfectly? Well, I try my best, right? I hope you didn't miss on one of those sins that you repent of.
40:44: Oh, well, I just kind of prayed a general prayer. So I think to your point is pointing them back to God and his perfection.
40:53: We are called to be holy as he is holy. And we can't do that, so I need a perfect savior.
40:59: But these restorationist groups, they are soulless bootstrapped, right? They're trying to earn favor with God or at least to stay in the covenant.
41:09: It's funny because the church of Christ, they have a five -step formula. You gotta hear, you gotta repent, you gotta believe, you gotta repent, you gotta confess and be baptized.
41:18: But the hidden sixth step is remain faithful in their particular group.
41:24: And so it's sad because these restorationist groups are trying to earn favor with God and keep favor with God by their good works.
41:34: Yeah, and the Adventists are gonna tell you, no, it's not to earn anything. It's not to earn anything. But I understand this is another area where the language barrier is happening.
41:41: It's like, what group out there that teaches works -based salvation says, hey, we teach works -based salvation.
41:48: None of them say that, folks. None of them say that. I have a question real quick. Okay, go ahead.
41:54: Does the Seventh -day Adventist use the word obey to kind of cloak works? Because with the church of Christ, you got different kinds of works.
42:03: You've got works of Mosaic law over here. Oh, but your obedient works, those are works of God over here, and it's all under the word obey.
42:12: Yep, that's exactly what they do. So they love the word obedience. They typically will say obedience.
42:17: And if you disagree with them on this, it's interesting because you'll get this snap response of just immediately it's, if you disagree with what they're saying about obedience, they'll immediately jump to, oh, so you're saying you can just live however you want?
42:29: Yeah. No, that's not what I'm saying. The problem in Seventh -day Adventist theology, I can't speak as much to the church of Christ, but the problem in Seventh -day
42:36: Adventist theology is they've misplaced obedience. This is a much bigger discussion for another day. And it's ultimately because their covenant theology is warped.
42:45: It is distorted. They don't, like you mentioned earlier, they do not distinguish between law and gospel. And that's ultimately coming from the root of them misunderstanding the proper understanding of covenant theology.
42:55: And so they end up mingling the two together, which results in them misplacing obedience and ascribing to it something that is not correct.
43:04: Obedience is not a justification retention device. Obedience is the fruit of already being justified.
43:11: And you'll have good days, you'll have bad days. You're gonna get some SDAs who are gonna tell you they don't sin anymore.
43:17: The sort of, they've bought into this sort of sinless perfectionism. And as you pointed out, this is typically at the behest though of them having a very truncated view of God's holiness.
43:28: There's not a very strong emphasis and discussion in Seventh -day Adventism. I'm not saying it's not there at all, but there's a very truncated understanding of God's holiness and what the standard really is.
43:38: And it's interesting with those types, the ones who think they're not sinning anymore, the standard of imperfection is always right just below wherever they are.
43:47: They're always just kind of right above wherever it is. And it doesn't take very long to start getting into the sort of like, a lot of them will say idolatry.
43:55: If you bring that up, they kind of boil that down to like, well, I didn't bow down to a statue today. It's like, well, did you put anything in your, even your mind above God today?
44:05: Were your priorities out of whack and you put something before God? That's an idol. You didn't keep the law perfectly and they don't really properly understand the purpose of the law.
44:15: So interesting parallels there between them and the church of Christ. Restorationist movement, man. Yeah.
44:22: Rather than hiding their faith, these remnant people are commissioned to share three vitally important messages with the entire world.
44:32: These heavenly tidings known as the three angels messages are found in Revelation 14, six through 12 and comprise
44:44: God's answers to the overwhelming satanic deceptions that will sweep across the world just before Christ's return.
44:55: The apostle John describes the first angels message like this, then
45:00: I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth, to every nation, tribe, tongue and people, saying with a loud voice, fear
45:15: God and give glory to him for the hour of his judgment has come and worship him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.
45:29: You see the first angel spreads the everlasting good news that God is our creator, our only source of salvation and that we are to worship only him.
45:40: It also contains wording right out of the fourth commandment indicating that the seventh day is still the day
45:49: God has set aside and made holy for worship. Another important aspect of this message is that the hour of his judgment has come, urging a call to true repentance and reformation.
46:07: All right, so brother, before unpacking this for both you and the audience, what is revelation 14, six through 12 talking about and what would you argue the text is telling us about?
46:22: Yeah, well, I'm least glad we start in verse six because it did mention the eternal gospel.
46:28: So I already know if I'm talking to a Seventh -day Adventist, they just brought me a verse that talks about the gospel truly with the good news of how someone can have their sins forgiven.
46:38: I think I would spend a lot of time there and about how that is the remnant out of every nation, tribe, language and people.
46:46: So I would talk about there. And then when we get into Babylon, the great, sure, these are the nations that are under the power of Satan, right?
46:57: And so once again, this gets back into a bigger discussion. I wanna recommend this is a commentary on the book of Revelation of how we see the church at war with the kingdom of darkness.
47:10: And you know who reigns supreme in his heavenly ministry from above and on high,
47:16: Jesus Christ. And so he protects the true bride, the true church, the true remnant, those that are called out by grace alone through faith alone.
47:24: So I'm curious to hear some of your thoughts because it's so interesting. I'm used to a different set of proof texts with baptism, right?
47:33: So hearing how, and it makes sense for, you know, a group like the Seventh -day Adventist to go to the book of Revelation because it's like they got to use the cryptic text to inform you.
47:44: And I could see the deception with maybe people that are evangelical and don't know a lot of really good theology.
47:51: I could see how, man, it says that. They're explaining a lot of things around that. And so it could be really deceptive.
47:59: That is exactly what happens. And so you mentioned the phrase, some translations will say the eternal gospel.
48:05: You'll hear them use the phrase everlasting gospel. And there is a whole truckload of things that are
48:15: Trojan horsed into this. So I'm excited now to break this down for you. So we're gonna end up, tonight, folks, we're gonna end up going through both the fir, or all the first, second, and third angels' messages here.
48:25: Their interpretation of Revelation 14, six, the first angels' message, changed after the great disappointment.
48:32: Originally, it was said to be foretelling of the Millerite movement and what was proclaimed in 1843 and 44.
48:42: As the Adventist Pope claims to be shown in vision, that the prophecy of the first and second angels' messages was fulfilled in this disappointment and heralding of William Miller's message, meaning the
48:54: Bible allegedly foretold of the Millerite movement and the great disappointment, which is what they claim
48:59: Revelation 10, nine through 11 is also saying. But after the great disappointment, most
49:06: Millerites abandoned this thinking, and rightly so. They instead came to believe that Revelation 14 was describing a future event yet to be fulfilled, to which
49:15: Ellen White blasted them and credited Satan and the fallen angels for why these individuals adopted that idea, leaving them in darkness.
49:24: She was also allegedly shown that all of heaven was filled with indignation over this and Jesus was slighted by such.
49:33: Now, the original understanding of the Millerites was that fear God and give glory to him for the hour of his judgment has come was referring to the judgment of God upon the wicked, which is generally understandable since the entire focus of chapter 14 is about the wrath of God toward the wicked.
49:48: In short, though, they believed this text was saying that God's wrath toward the wicked was going to be poured out upon the earth in 1844.
49:56: But since that didn't happen, and some of the Millerites refused to accept that they were wrong, they faced a new dilemma.
50:06: Since the wrath wasn't poured out on the wicked in 1844, how could they continue claiming the first angel's message was fulfilled when the judgment of the wicked never happened?
50:17: This was then the catalyst leading to their theory of the investigative judgment in heaven. So instead of executing justice on the wicked, they completely inverted the focus of the text from being about the wicked to actually being about a pre -advent investigative judgment event that started in heaven, not on earth, where all of those who professed faith in God all the way back to Adam are having their life record reviewed to see who is and isn't worthy of the atoning benefits of Christ.
50:45: They embraced this theory because it allowed them, one, to still maintain that judgment began in 1844, and two, still be able to assert that the first two angels' messages had already sounded, maintaining what
50:57: Ellen White was allegedly shown in vision. Thus, they claim this passage is actually foretelling of October 22nd, 1844, when the investigative judgment began in heaven, and that's what the hour of his judgment has come is supposedly referring to.
51:13: Jeremiah, I don't know why I brought this slide up because we're not there yet, technically. That's okay. Any thoughts on all of that before we peel back the layers on this phrase, everlasting gospel?
51:24: Everlasting, eternal, it's because there's only one way of salvation.
51:31: And so we see about an everlasting covenant in the Old Testament scriptures, and you have
51:36: Old Testament saints being justified by faith in the coming Messiah who inaugurates by his blood a better covenant.
51:47: And so it is interesting to me how some of these phrases and these verses, they just take a little bit and then just import all the
51:57: Ellen G. White interpretation. And so it does make me sad, but praise be to God that his gospel is an everlasting gospel because we have our sins removed as far as the
52:07: East is from the West. Amen. So central to all of this is like you pointed out and I said is what they import into that phrase everlasting gospel, which
52:16: Ted has already mentioned numerous times. This is vitally important to flesh out and for people to understand.
52:21: So folks, bear with me. So in the Review and Herald, which for those that do not know, this is the
52:28: SDA Church's worldwide paper. We read this about what they claim the everlasting gospel is.
52:36: Quote, this movement with which we are connected stands for certain great fundamental truths.
52:42: The existence of God, the inspiration of the Holy Scriptures, salvation alone through the vicarious sacrifice of the
52:48: Lord Jesus, repentance, regeneration, and the gift of righteousness by faith, the work of the
52:53: Holy Spirit, the immutability of God's law, the binding claims of the Bible Sabbath, the priestly ministry of Christ in the heavenly sanctuary, the investigative judgment now going on, the soon coming of Christ to take his children home, the doctrine of spiritual gifts, the manifestation of the gift of prophecy in the remnant church, life only in Christ, Christian temperance, and other leading important Bible doctrines.
53:17: These great truths constitute the everlasting gospel message for this time.
53:24: To the Seventh -day Adventist Church has been committed this message. The everlasting gospel was preached by Noah, by Abraham, by Paul and Peter, and by all the prophets and apostles of past ages.
53:37: It was preached in the setting appropriate to their day. We cannot preach this gospel message as Noah preached it, or as Paul or Luther gave it.
53:48: It is for us to preach it in the setting of God's great threefold message of Revelation 14.
53:57: Luther preached righteousness by faith in the setting of the gospel message for the 16th century. We must preach righteousness by faith in the setting of God's message for this time.
54:07: We are told by the messenger of the Lord, talking about Ellen White, several have written to me inquiring if the message of justification by faith is the third angel's message.
54:16: And I have answered, it is the third angel's message in verity. The apostle
54:22: Paul preached of righteousness and temperance and of a judgment to come.
54:29: We cannot preach the judgment of God as did the apostle. We must preach the hour of his judgment is come.
54:36: That judgment is now going forward. The great underlying principles of these truths are the same, but in our preaching, their application must be made to the present day conditions."
54:49: Close quote. So already we have serious issues. We see they claim that the everlasting gospel refers basically to the
54:58: Seventh -day Adventist church's entire system of theology. This is an insight into how when they use the word gospel, they aren't referring to the person and work of Christ.
55:11: They mean Seventh -day Sabbatarianism, the investigative judgment, Ellen White as a prophet, their lifestyle and temperance doctrines, et cetera.
55:18: And all of those things are essentially dogmas, not merely doctrine. Meaning in this model, if you don't believe their system of theology, your soul is in jeopardy.
55:31: Secondly, we see they try and say that the everlasting gospel was preached by people such as Noah, Abraham, Paul, et cetera, but it was preached in the setting of their day.
55:41: So it looked different. It can't be preached the same way today because we live in a different time and there's a specific present truth message for this day and age.
55:50: For example, when Paul preached about a judgment to come, they're claiming they still preach the same thing he did, that there's a judgment.
55:59: It just looks different because we live at the end of time and Paul didn't. That's what they mean by phrases like present truth or the truth for this present time.
56:08: Go ahead. So Martin Luther, what the quote was referring to, right? When Martin Luther was preaching?
56:14: Yep. So he did not have their view of keeping the
56:20: Sabbath. So help me understand why they can put Martin Luther in a positive light there. So this gets into their whole,
56:28: Ellen White's essentially the great controversy where they've cherry picked various people throughout history and they try to say like, well,
56:34: Luther was right about this and John Calvin was right about this and this individual was right about this. And we've taken all these things from all the different individuals that got one thing right, basically.
56:44: And we're the fullness of all of those truths together that were coming out of the Babylonian exile of the church being in captivity, which they try to appeal to Luther on, et cetera.
56:55: So Babylon captivity, are you either in that captivity and are lost or are you not?
57:02: Like, how does that work in their mind? They're appealing to Luther's understanding of the church going into captivity.
57:07: So we talked about this a little bit the last time you were here, basically this idea, they try and claim that Paul said in 2
57:13: Thessalonians that there's gonna be this great apostasy, which they basically read into the text that the church is gonna die, essentially.
57:20: They won't say that it died. If you ask them to point, okay, point to me who was the
57:25: Christian in the year 600? Who was a Christian in 800, 900? It's gonna be these unnamed fringe pockets of who knows where.
57:35: And basically the papacy rose up and began persecuting the church. And the church was in Babylonian captivity for all this time until basically like Jan Hus and the
57:45: Waldensians, et cetera, which kind of were the forerunners leading up to really the reformation, but the reformation ended too soon, which needed to lead to a restoration.
57:55: So when they talk about Luther here and preaching righteousness by faith, they're essentially saying that, well, he had present truth in his time.
58:04: Righteousness by faith applied a certain way in his day and he had to preach it a certain way, but we don't live in the same timeframe in the sort of context that he lived in.
58:13: So we have to preach righteousness by faith in this present truth end times period.
58:19: Got it, okay. Well, I appreciate you bringing some clarity on that. I will say I'm trying to get my Presby bros to reform a little bit more.
58:26: Yeah, and that's your Anabaptist roots coming through there, because that was the claim from, that was
58:34: Thomas Munser's claim to Luther. You're still basically Roman Catholic and we're like, well, yeah, we're reformed
58:41: Catholics. I realized John Calvin probably would have been in favor of me being drowned or something.
58:47: That is true. And I don't necessarily agree with Calvin on all of that, but that's a different discussion obviously for another day. Thankfully, we don't live in Geneva, but two years prior in the same publication, speaking about this same thing, they also wrote, quote, the very fact that this prophecy of the three angels messages covers the period between 1844 and the end of this age shows conclusively that this threefold message is
59:11: God's special message for us at this very hour. Just as surely as we are living between 1844 and the coming of Christ, just so surely we may know that this threefold message of Revelation 14, six through 12 is
59:24: God's present truth for this present time. The time for this message is very definitively fixed to the present generation.
59:33: He who will receive this prophecy as given by Jesus Christ may be just as sure that this is
59:38: Christ's special message for us today as if Jesus were to appear in person and speak this threefold proclamation with an audible voice.
59:47: In harmony with this idea that this message is limited to the period between 1844 and the end, we find that no one prior to 1844 had ever claimed to have given this threefold message.
01:00:01: Neither Luther nor Calvin, not Knox, Wesley, Alexander Campbell, or any other of the great lights of those times set up the claim that they were doing this predicted work of Revelation 14, six through 12.
01:00:13: If this work had been done by any of them, they would have surely known it. This prophecy of Revelation 14, six through 14 does not and cannot refer to any proclamation of the gospel in the days of the apostles, the early
01:00:29: Christian fathers, or the reformers of the 16th, 17th, or 18th century. It is strictly a last day message applicable to those who lived just before the return of Christ, close quote.
01:00:46: So they understand Revelation 14, six and seven, and that phrase everlasting gospel to be a gospel that wasn't preached by anyone prior to their movement.
01:00:58: It's not apostolic in origin. It wasn't heralded by the apostles, the church fathers. It's strictly a last day message, which they claim the last days began in 1798.
01:01:09: Yet Paul the apostle says in Galatians one, there's only one gospel, any other so -called gospels cursed by God.
01:01:17: And he says, it's the gospel that Jesus himself gave to the apostles and that has been handed down to us today in sacred scripture.
01:01:25: The apostles did not preach the investigative judgment for the forgiveness of sins. They didn't preach, get out of the
01:01:30: Protestant churches and join the SDA church as the remnant for the forgiveness of sins, et cetera. But to defend against this charge, they try and propose like we saw in that last source, that they're not preaching a gospel that's different than the apostles.
01:01:43: It just takes a present truth form that's applicable to our day. Very slippery and deceptive because it is a different message.
01:01:52: You don't just get to say, well, Paul preached about judgment. And since we do too, that means we're preaching the same message.
01:02:00: When what they mean is something entirely foreign to the apostles, wasn't preached by them and was entirely unknown until their movement was born out of a false prophet date setting for the return of Christ.
01:02:13: Furthermore, Paul presents the gospel as the good news about the person and work of Jesus, not systematic theology.
01:02:20: Jeremiah, thoughts on any of that before transitioning to the final source on this that will add another problematic dimension to all of this.
01:02:27: Quick question about the eternal gospel. Where's the dividing line for them?
01:02:32: And not them just saying, oh, you're misled and you're misinformed, but you're a part of this universal church.
01:02:39: For them, like, is there a dividing line? Like if you don't keep the Sabbath holy, are you lost or something else?
01:02:47: I'm gonna leave you on a cliffhanger because we're gonna get into that later. Okay. That was good.
01:02:52: So lastly, I wanna look at some of what SDA theologian Herbert Douglas said in a paper titled, what is the everlasting gospel?
01:02:59: So we can see another aspect of all of this. Some Adventists get hopping mad when
01:03:05: I cite Herbert Douglas and they can get over it. Herbert Douglas, folks, for those that do not know, lauded light of the
01:03:12: SDA church he has since passed. Hopefully his soul was in union with Christ and he is in the presence of incredible holiness right now, experiencing beatific vision.
01:03:20: That's what I hope. He seemed like a great guy, but what we're about to read here is seriously problematic. He starts out by saying, quote,
01:03:28: John the revelator saw that sometime before the end of the world, before Jesus returned, a movement would arise, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth, to every nation, tribe, tongue and people, saying with a loud voice, fear
01:03:43: God and give glory to him for the hour of his judgment has come. Revelation 14, six through seven. Those who respond to this gospel are described in verse 12 as those who keep the commandments of God in the faith of Jesus.
01:03:57: This everlasting gospel focuses on one, God to whom worship and obedience are due, and two, a people who give glory to him during the time of his judgment.
01:04:08: Why is this emphasis on the everlasting gospel so timely, so important, so necessary?
01:04:16: Apparently there was something about the gospel that had been muted or muddled for some time before the events seen in Revelation 14, requiring this special heavenly intervention to set matters right, especially at this foretold time of his judgment, close quote.
01:04:37: So he's operating off of faulty presuppositions, which lead to errant conclusions. And they're the same errors that Ted and the
01:04:44: Fundamental Beliefs book operate on, or the Fundamental Belief operates on. Namely that the end times began in 1798, and Revelation is foretelling of the
01:04:52: Millerites in the Seventh -day Adventist movement. When the text says the everlasting gospel will go to all tribes, tongues, peoples, and nations, that's supposed to be talking about the
01:05:04: Adventist system of doctrines, like we read in the Review and Herald. What the Christian church is taking to the world,
01:05:11: Douglas is going to call a limited gospel. And that's supposedly not what's in focus here in Revelation 14.
01:05:19: Something about the gospel was allegedly lost between the apostles to the present day, and the text is telling us that there would need to be a heavenly intervention to basically restore the fullness of the gospel.
01:05:33: A few pages later, he also notes, quote, the purpose of the gospel is to make plain why
01:05:39: Jesus came and why he died. The everlasting gospel in the end times restores the
01:05:46: New Testament gospel in its wholeness, in its integrity. It explains God's plan to save men and women in such a way that their presence in the new earth would not jeopardize again the well -being and security of the universe.
01:06:01: Thus, the gospel is not limited to the good news of his pardon and forgiveness. It presents the ellipse of truth that reveals the integrity of God's grace as including his forgiveness and his power to transform.
01:06:14: The everlasting gospel adds much more to limited gospels that focus only on one half of the gospel ellipse.
01:06:24: The religion of Christ means more than the forgiveness of sin. It means taking away our sins and filling the vacuum with the graces of the
01:06:31: Holy Spirit. It means a heart emptied of self, the glory, the fullness, the completeness of the gospel plan is fulfilled in the life.
01:06:40: His ellipsis is not mine. So listening again to Revelation 14, the everlasting gospel will get a fair and full hearing in the end times.
01:06:49: Limited gospels that ridicule adherence to God's expressed will as being outside of the gospel will appear inadequate beside the clear proclamation of the everlasting gospel.
01:07:02: Limited gospels that cry legalism at any attempt to embrace faithful obedience will be seen as contrary to the message of New Testament grace.
01:07:13: Close quote. So brother, he contrasts the gospel with the everlasting gospel.
01:07:22: The gospel is the person and work of Christ, why Jesus came and why he died, which in the
01:07:28: Adventist understanding is informed by their great controversy worldview. And it distorts what the Bible actually says about both of those reasons.
01:07:35: Nevertheless, the good news about the person and work of Christ is what constitutes the gospel, the everlasting gospel, he tells us, is a restoration of the fullness of the truth.
01:07:49: It adds much more to limited gospels, which he says only capture part of the gospel he lives.
01:07:55: The everlasting gospel is supposedly a restoration of the idea, well, it includes this, that justification and sanctification are not distinct and separate things.
01:08:05: In other words, if you don't believe that obedience to God maintains your peace with him, you don't believe in their two -tiered late medieval understanding of justification, you have a limited gospel, which will be shown to be inadequate at the end of time as their unique everlasting gospel message goes out to every tribe, tongue, people, and nation.
01:08:26: So it isn't just the laundry list of doctrines that we saw them present in the Review and Herald, but the everlasting gospel also supposedly is a restoration of late medieval soteriology apparently.
01:08:38: Because if you point out to them their faulty understanding of the role that obedience plays in the life of the believer, like I mentioned earlier, you'll be shouted down as having a limited gospel that's, you know, you're decrying legalism and these sorts of things.
01:08:51: So Jeremiah, after seeing these sources, what sort of concerns would you have with all of this?
01:08:58: Well, with it being a wrong gospel, it's centered around works. It, in fact, even though it's giving lip service to not, but it is a system of legalism.
01:09:08: Now you referenced how, it's you enter in by grace, but you stay in the covenant by your works.
01:09:14: And this cannot offer true peace, right? The concept of shalom, a cease fire.
01:09:21: And so, you know, going back to Romans, because Romans decimates cultic groups, especially legalistic groups like Church of Christ, and as we're seeing with Seventh -day
01:09:30: Adventism. Romans 5 .1, I always go back to, because it gives peace to my heart, right?
01:09:36: Going back to the gospel of grace that is eternal, everlasting, because we have our sins no longer imputed on our account.
01:09:44: Paul says, therefore, since we have been, right? This is a past work, but now as applied, we are justified by not baptism, not our works, not by Sabbath keeping, but by faith.
01:09:59: We have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. So this brings peace. And my point is, if I could, you know, down the road, disobey, thwart the, you know,
01:10:12: God's grip on my soul and go out of the covenant of grace or the covenant with God, that doesn't give me peace.
01:10:20: It can't fulfill the promise that Paul is saying that when you are, or when the
01:10:25: Son has set you free, then you are free indeed. So my thoughts of hearing a distinction between the gospel over here, that's kind of limited in contrast with the everlasting gospel.
01:10:38: It lets me know that they don't understand the quote unquote first gospel because that is the everlasting gospel because it brings everlasting peace and righteousness.
01:10:47: So yeah, it's wild miles. I've never heard that before. So thank you.
01:10:53: Yeah, so they try to contrast Revelation 14 as like this different gospel. It's like, well, it does include the person and work of Jesus.
01:11:02: It's so slippery. We had a number of Adventists this week because a clip went up where I was talking about this exact same subject, just kind of some different aspects of it.
01:11:11: And I can't tell you how many SDA said, well, then tell us what you believe the everlasting gospel is of Revelation. It's the same gospel as, there's only one gospel, folks.
01:11:20: Thank you. I point them to an article on our website where I talk about this in more detail, but it's not some, again, this is why
01:11:26: I was saying they have fundamentally flawed presuppositions. They're assuming that this is some special message post 1798 for a specific select group of people.
01:11:37: And Jeremiah, you'll be shocked probably to hear this. Seventh -day Adventism, at least on paper, is bigger than both
01:11:43: Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses combined. They're also far more international.
01:11:49: They love to boast about this. They love to say, well, what other group is in over 200 countries worldwide?
01:11:55: They use that to say, look, the remnant's gonna be every tribe, tongue, people, and nation. And what other group is in this many nations?
01:12:04: So that's supposed to prove that this everlasting gospel is their message here. So yeah,
01:12:09: I lumped in, go ahead. We talked about maybe a while back is, you know, when people look at the book,
01:12:15: The Kingdom of the Cults with Walter Martin, two groups, Seventh -day Adventist and the
01:12:21: Church of Christ flew under the radar. And so I want people to hear that there is a deeper level of deception with these two particular restorationist groups.
01:12:30: Yeah, Martin didn't follow his own advice and scale the language barrier, and he ended up getting taken to task by the
01:12:35: SDAs, who very deceptively, well, kind of a discussion for another day, but you see toward the end of his life from the
01:12:43: John Ekerberg show that he very clearly started to realize this regarding the authority of Ellen White. And if you guys go and watch that, it's actually on our channel for those that want to check it out.
01:12:52: I'm also grateful that you brought up Romans 5 here. This is immediately where I go with any Seventh -day Adventist immediately.
01:12:58: When I'm doing one -on -one evangelism with an SDA, the first place I go is Romans 5 .1. And I ask them, do you have peace with God?
01:13:06: Oftentimes I get the snap call of, well, yeah. And then I ask them, what does that mean to you?
01:13:13: And we start getting into what Paul means because this is coming out of chapter four where he's talking about the blessed man.
01:13:20: Who's the blessed man? Well, he's citing from the Psalter, it's David, but he also points out
01:13:26: Abraham. So these two old covenant figures, right there, we already see. Paul clearly didn't have this idea of present truth.
01:13:33: Well, Paul lived at a different time than David and Abraham. And so he had this present truth and he had to talk about justification in his present day.
01:13:41: No, he didn't do that. He says in the new covenant, in the covenant of grace, you're justified the same way
01:13:47: Abraham was. You're justified the same way any person has throughout all of redemptive history. So I always come here because in that chapter, he explains why he is saying, well, he explains what the therefore is therefore.
01:14:00: It's because he's coming out of explaining how the person who's justified by God, and we could get into what justification is.
01:14:08: Essentially it was Christ declaring. Geraldo Camacho was on here, folks, for those that wanna go check that out.
01:14:14: He was here to talk about justification specifically. And he broke this down so well that there's not punctuation in the original
01:14:21: Greek manuscripts. We add these sorts of things for various reasons, but he explains how what justification is, according to Paul in chapter four, is
01:14:30: Christ was not raised for our justification in the sense that because he was raised, oh, now he can justify people.
01:14:38: That's the sort of thing that's coming through in SDA theology is Christ had to come and he had to weave together this rope of righteousness and these sorts of things.
01:14:45: And then he was raised so that he could justify people. But that's not what the text is saying.
01:14:51: The text is saying that Christ raising declared that Jeremiah, you're justified.
01:15:01: Miles, you're justified. That's what the raising of Christ was. It was a declaration.
01:15:07: Your sins are forgiven. Your sins are forgiven. And that's why you can have peace with God.
01:15:14: So now they say, repeat that maybe again for me, that Jesus couldn't justify until he came in his earthly ministry and was died, suffered, died, and resurrected.
01:15:26: Because my point is, what do they do with the earlier part of Romans four that talks about how by Abraham's faith, he believed
01:15:34: God and it was counted, le godsumai, he was justified before God. So this gets into a very long discussion, which will probably prompt more questions from you.
01:15:47: It gets into their Christology a little bit, but it also gets into the sort of great controversy storyline.
01:15:53: You have to understand. So Herbert Douglas mentioned there that the limited gospel talks about why Jesus came and what he came to do.
01:16:00: Well, they're wrong on that too. They teach that Jesus came ultimately to vindicate the law from accusations made by Satan prior to the earth's existence.
01:16:10: That in heaven, Jesus was exalted to be made equal with God the Father, a very contested claim in Adventist circles.
01:16:17: You'll find various people on various sides of the aisle that say, no, no, no, and they argue this. But Ellen White claimed in her early
01:16:24: Christology back in 1858, that Jesus was exalted to be made equal with God the
01:16:29: Father. This made Lucifer jealous. So he began rebelling and that's how he became
01:16:34: Satan. And so he began attacking the law, the 10 commandments, God's government, these sorts of phrases that she used.
01:16:41: And so because of that, a great controversy started. It's those central claims from that storyline that then inform everything else in their theology.
01:16:51: So why did Jesus come? Well, it was to vindicate the law of God and demonstrate to all these watching intelligences on all these other planets and these other worlds that are watching in on the world because now there's seeds of doubt that have been sowed because of Satan and God's on trial and he has to vindicate himself.
01:17:07: And so the plan that he has enacted to walk out to do such involved
01:17:12: Jesus coming, living a perfectly sinless life and demonstrating that the law can be kept.
01:17:18: He went to the cross and he paid the penalty for sin, which is death. And that demonstrated to all the watching intelligences, humans, the beings on other worlds, fallen angels, the angels that haven't fallen, that the law is fair, it can be kept and that you can keep it too.
01:17:34: So because of that, they also affirm the Kenosis heresy of Philippians two, that Jesus set his divine nature aside and he was only a man on earth.
01:17:43: Ellen White claims in the desire of ages, he had a sinful nature, but he never sinned, which is oxymoronic, but he was no different than we are.
01:17:50: He had no advantage over us. And so they claim that he came to weave together a perfect robe of righteousness such that he could then impart that to us.
01:18:01: Now this thing gets into imputation versus impartation. They try to appeal to John Wesley on this and say that, well, we're just firmly in the
01:18:09: Methodist tradition. And I've tried to get Lucas Curcio on here from a Method ministry because I want to talk to him about that.
01:18:15: And I want to talk with him about that and say, hey, how do you feel about this group trying to ride the coattails of your tradition and try and saddle you all with this mess of the investigative judgment and the great controversy.
01:18:26: But nevertheless, your question, maybe I can bring you back and we can discuss that a little bit more. It's going to open up a big can of worms to -
01:18:34: I like how you have to bring me back in. What it's interesting, I'll say real briefly, is the same kind of questions that I ask the
01:18:41: Church of Christ I find myself asking that the Adventist here, and it's the same package with just a little bit different wrapping because our heart is trying to magnify
01:18:54: Jesus Christ, but all these cult groups, it's like we cling to Sabbath law keeping, we cling to the commandment to be baptized.
01:19:03: And I hope I don't get you in trouble saying this, but the Eastern Orthodox Church, they're saying, you got to look to us as being the one true church.
01:19:09: There's no salvation outside the ark of us. And Roman Catholicism is just another bag package a little bit differently.
01:19:17: And so the everlasting gospel is by faith alone in Christ alone, and that's what gives peace.
01:19:24: Yeah, so it's like we would have, you and I would have differences, for example, with the Orthodox and the Roman Catholics on the subjective aspect of the gospel.
01:19:33: The objective aspect is the detail, the death, burial, resurrection of Christ, apostles' creed, these sorts of things. The subjective component is how is that now applied to you?
01:19:43: How does that now apply to your account? That's where we would differ with them. Well, it's the same with the Seventh Adventist, except they're not even correct on the objective aspect of the gospel.
01:19:53: They're off on both the objective and the subjective aspect. How it's applied to you is off, but also what the message even is.
01:20:01: And really, they're no different in this regard from a lot of the ecclesialist groups. Basically, we're the true church. You have to come join us.
01:20:08: You're outside the ark and you're drowning in the water. Let's get back into this. We read the message of the second angel in Revelation 14, verse eight.
01:20:18: And another angel followed saying, "'Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.'"
01:20:31: The book of Revelation is filled with symbols representing real entities and events.
01:20:39: Now, the second angel warns that Babylon, the biblical symbol of false worship and coercion, is going to fall.
01:20:49: God's judgment is coming. It is a plea to flee the confusion of Babylon and its false teachings and turn to Christ and his truth contained in scripture.
01:21:04: The second angel's message will have increasing relevance as the end draws near, and its message is repeated in an even stronger way by the fourth angel of Revelation 18, who cries mightily with a loud voice, pleading for God's people to come out of Babylon.
01:21:27: Okay, so Revelation 14, eight. Jeremiah, another Adventist shows up at your door wanting to talk with you about their so -called gospel message.
01:21:36: This time they bring up this text and claim it's telling us that it's referring to churches outside of the
01:21:43: SDA church being apostate and fallen, and that God has raised up the SDA church to call people like yourself out of apostasy.
01:21:52: How are you gonna respond? Yeah, it's probably gonna be similar to earlier. I'm gonna ask, well, how do you know
01:21:57: Babylon is all of these things? And we're gonna cycle back to this term remnant, the one true church.
01:22:06: To me, getting them to try to make two different gospels is exactly the kind of conversation that I wanna have to show that, no, there's only been one way to be reckoned with God.
01:22:18: And it doesn't matter how many spurious proof texts that they bring up out of the book of Revelation. I'll remind them, this is a book that magnifies
01:22:26: Christ and shows us that there is spiritual warfare in the church always prevails. Yeah, and just,
01:22:33: I mean, the simple fact that their interpretation of Revelation, apparently the book of Revelation took on some new cryptic meaning in the 19th century.
01:22:40: Just all of a sudden, it just now has this new, what did these texts mean to, I have, for example,
01:22:46: Andrew of Caesarea's commentary on Revelation, the earliest commentary of Revelation that's known from like the sixth century.
01:22:52: Well, what did the book of Revelation mean to a peasant Christian in the 900s? Well, what does your interpretation, how does that apply to them?
01:23:01: It doesn't, so you have to make some new novel, secret understanding in the 19th century, why?
01:23:09: But this is predicated upon their faulty sort of Millerite idea that at the time of Millerism, you have to understand, folks, that there were people that they were interacting with that were saying, we can't know for 100 % certain that our understanding of the apocalyptic passages of scripture are correct because there's a lot of moving parts, there's a lot of unknowns, and that's okay.
01:23:33: It's not the end of the world. The plain didactic portions of scripture are clear.
01:23:39: It's okay if there's some parts of scripture that are difficult, et cetera. They weren't okay settling for this.
01:23:45: They had to have some, well, we have this special insight. See, no one else can understand Revelation, but God has, he rewarded their obedience of studying the
01:23:53: Bible by giving them special light and insight that no one else has. And so that is undergirding the sort of claims that are going on here.
01:24:02: They can't really get away from that. But the second angel's message in Babylon. So let me break this down. So like the first angel,
01:24:09: I wanna flesh this out more for the audience to better understand what all is being claimed here and where exactly it's coming from.
01:24:15: Because obviously the biblical text says nothing about Millerism, Protestants, et cetera.
01:24:21: This is their interpretation. And I'm gonna keep emphasizing this and saying this. This is the
01:24:27: Adventist interpretation. The text does not just say this. I get so annoyed when they'll just try and tell me, they'll cite a proof text and then just make dogmatic assertions.
01:24:37: No friend, that's your interpretation. They don't seem to understand that you're just giving us your distilled down interpretation of the text, yet you're trying to act like the text just plainly says this and we're ignoring it.
01:24:51: First, in the exposition of their fundamental beliefs, this is from the SDA, Seventh -day Adventist Fundamental Beliefs book.
01:24:58: They write, quote, in Revelation, Babylon is also known as the wicked woman, the mother of harlots and her impure daughters.
01:25:05: Revelation 17, five. It symbolizes all apostate religious organizations and their leadership, though it refers especially to the great apostate religious alliance between the beast and his image that will bring about the final crisis described in Revelation 13, 15 through 17.
01:25:23: The second angel's message brings out the universal nature of Babylon's apostasy and her coercive power, saying that she has made all nations drink of the wine into the wrath of her fornication.
01:25:36: The wine of Babylon represents her heretical teachings. Babylon will pressure the powers of the state to enforce universally her false religious teachings and decrees.
01:25:48: Babylon falls because she rejects the first angel's message, the gospel of righteousness by faith in the creator.
01:25:55: As during the first few centuries, the Church of Rome apostatized, many Protestants today have departed from the great
01:26:02: Bible truths of the Reformation. This prophecy of Babylon's fall especially finds its fulfillment in the departure of Protestantism at large from the purity and simplicity of the everlasting gospel of righteousness by faith that once so powerfully impelled the
01:26:19: Reformation." Close quote. Now, what's fascinating about that final sentence is that the doctrines they allege are a falling away from Bible truth are doctrines that the first generation
01:26:31: Protestants affirmed such as Sunday as the Lord's day. Literally none of them were
01:26:37: Seventh -day Sabbatarians even though they've tried rewriting history to claim that the Waldensians were until John Calvin deceived them.
01:26:43: Nevertheless, they state all of this is fact and it's because it's what Ellen White tells them the text is saying.
01:26:51: Again, quote, or sorry. First, the text obviously says nothing about this representing
01:26:57: Protestants being apostate and falling away from so -called Bible truth but it's Ellen White that asserted
01:27:03: Babylon here refers to apostate Protestants who are supposedly divided into innumerable sex and they possess no unity with one another.
01:27:10: Another laughable charge considering Jeremiah and I have far more unity than the average Seventh -day Adventist does with the people in their own tribe.
01:27:18: We've read this quote, I don't know how many times on this platform so people can pause if you'd like to read it. And it was also
01:27:25: Ellen White that tells them on the next page of the same book that the harlot woman of Revelation 17 five is
01:27:30: Roman Catholicism and her whore daughters are us Protestants. Now, something that's important to understand is that just like with their interpretation of the first angel's message, they had to reinterpret this as time went on.
01:27:44: SDA historian George Knight notes this in his book Search for Identity, the Development of Seventh -day
01:27:49: Adventist Beliefs where he writes quote, regarding the second angel's message of Revelation 14 eight the
01:27:55: Sabbatarians, referring to the Sabbatarian Adventists or the Sabbatarian Millerites, continue to follow the lead of Charles Fitch in interpreting
01:28:03: Babylon as including both apostate Protestantism and Roman Catholicism. As James White put it in 1859, we unhesitatingly apply the
01:28:13: Babylon of the apocalypse to all corrupt Christianity. Corruption as he saw it, involve both a moral fall and the intermingling of Christian teachings with non -Christian philosophers, such as the immortality of the soul.
01:28:27: The latter left the churches defenseless against such beliefs as spiritualism. Babylon in short, stood for confused churches.
01:28:36: The one important line of development set forth by the Sabbatarians in regard to the second angel's message was to conceive of the fall of Babylon as a two phase or progressive corruption, close quote.
01:28:50: So the question has to be asked, what does he mean by development?
01:28:58: This is the quote that the Fundamental Beliefs book is parroting when they said that Babylon falls because she rejects the first angel's message.
01:29:05: Ellen White claimed that the second angel's message was nearing its conclusion when the Millerites proclaimed the loud cry during the summer and autumn of 1844.
01:29:15: Now pay close attention to how she describes God's rejection of the churches in 1844.
01:29:22: As the churches refused to receive the first angel's message they rejected the light from heaven and fell from the favor of God.
01:29:30: They trusted to their own strength and by opposing the first message, placed themselves where they could not see the light of the second angel's message.
01:29:38: But the beloved of God who were oppressed accepted the message. Babylon has fallen and left the churches near the close of the second angel's message,
01:29:49: I saw a great light from heaven shining upon the people of God. The rays of this light seemed bright as the sun and I heard the voice of the angels crying, behold the bridegroom cometh, go ye out to meet him.
01:30:03: Close quote. So the rejection of what she's calling the first angel's message here was the rejection of the message of Jesus' return on October 22nd, 1844.
01:30:13: Yet history shows that they were entirely vindicated the people that did that because it was a deception.
01:30:20: But God apparently showed Ellen White that the churches that rejected their fanaticism and date setting had been rejected by him.
01:30:26: Or she writes quote, when the churches scorned the counsel of God by rejecting the advent message, talking about Millerism, the
01:30:33: Lord rejected them. The first angel was followed by a second proclaiming, Babylon has fallen, has fallen that great city because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication,
01:30:43: Revelation 14, eight. This message was understood by Adventists to be an announcement of the moral fall of the churches in consequence of the rejection of the first message.
01:30:55: The proclamation Babylon has fallen was given in the summer of 1844. And as the result, about 50 ,000 withdrew from these churches.
01:31:06: Close quote. In fact, she claimed that because of this, our churches don't have faith in God's word.
01:31:12: We don't love God and the Holy Spirit has been withdrawn from us. Only Adventists love
01:31:18: God, have faith in his word and have the Holy Spirit apparently. As she says here in the story of redemption on page 366.
01:31:26: But wait, Dr. Knight told us that there was a development around this doctrine, right?
01:31:32: Well, yes, because Ellen White changed her mind. First, she said that the second angels message was a call to leave the churches because they were morally fallen due to rejecting
01:31:41: Millerism. By which she meant they rejected the belief in the literal physical second coming outright, which is obviously absurd.
01:31:49: She more than likely recognized this herself, which is why the second angel's message then became about going to church on Sunday and believing in the immortality of the soul.
01:31:57: Two things that weren't even being discussed when they were heralding the Millerite message before 1844. They cite an article of hers from the
01:32:04: Review and Herald in their Bible commentary, where they note this change, which is ultimately what Dr. Knight, The Fundamental Beliefs Book and Ted Wilson are all getting at.
01:32:12: These two doctrines, going to church on Sunday and the immortality of the soul are the false doctrines of Babylon and why
01:32:20: God has rejected us supposedly. Notice, quote, this is from the SDA Bible commentary. On Revelation 18, one to two, this is the same message that was given by the second angel.
01:32:30: Babylon has fallen because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. What is that wine?
01:32:36: Her false doctrines. She's given to the world a false Sabbath instead of the Sabbath of the fourth commandment and has repeated the falsehood that Satan first told to Eve in Eden, the natural immortality of the soul.
01:32:49: Many kindred heirs, she has spread far and wide, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
01:32:57: Close quote. But fear not, because of course, Ellen White claimed to have a defense and reason for this drastically different understanding, which is that both the first and second angels' messages needed repeated and can apparently take on entirely new meanings the second go around when things didn't originally pan out.
01:33:16: Notice, this is from Manuscript Releases, Volume 16. Quote, the whole earth is to be lighted with the glory of the
01:33:24: Lord. The pure in heart shall see God. It's those who are following the Lamb, whithersoever he goeth, that he receiveth power from the angel that came down from heaven, having great power.
01:33:35: The first message is to be repeated, proclaiming the second advent of Christ to our world.
01:33:40: The second angel's message is to be repeated. Babylon, the greatest fallen, has fallen and has become the habitation of devils and the hold of every foul spirit and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
01:33:51: For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
01:34:03: Close quote. Now, I get that the video we are listening to is just an overview of the fundamental belief, but even the exposition of their beliefs don't explain all of this to people because they'd obviously rather leave this part off of their past in the dustbin of history to be forgotten, but we're supposed to believe that this is what's going on in Revelation 14 .8.
01:34:24: The first angel's message is repeated, proclaiming the imminent second coming of Christ, just like the first go around, except wait, it's actually about the investigative judgment too.
01:34:34: Similarly, when the second angel's message is repeated, the same thing happened. Now it's allegedly focused on the
01:34:40: Sabbath and the immortality of the soul. Originally though, it was about rejecting the first message, which was believed to be about Christ's imminent return, but according to Ellen White, was truly about the investigative judgment.
01:34:53: I am sorry, folks, I'm sorry, but this is insulting that they expect us to believe this.
01:34:59: It is a total mess of confusion, which is rather ironic considering they also tell us that Ellen White was supposed to be part of the hallmark of them being the remnant and distinct from Babylon is that they're supposed to be united in ways that the rest of us aren't.
01:35:15: Ellen White's function was supposed to be one of keeping them from being doctrinally confused like all of us
01:35:20: Babylonian Protestants. Now, Jeremiah, I know that that was a lot, but as a pastor, what are your thoughts on all of this?
01:35:28: One of my biggest thoughts is when one person leads a movement or claims that they have an infallible interpretation of God's word, this is what you get.
01:35:41: This is when you have an infallible magisterium or you have the watchtower or you have a living prophet like Ellen G.
01:35:49: White. There's no such thing as studying the scripture, looking for harmony, logical consistency.
01:35:56: It doesn't matter because one person is leading the way. And so I just wanna encourage people, if you have a controlling source, a controlling person or group, that's the signs of a cult, a leader, somebody whose interpretation cannot be questioned.
01:36:16: This is where me and Myles would unite greatly on. The scripture has to be the sole infallible authority in the life of the
01:36:26: Christian. We are to test, like what we're doing, we're testing what Ellen White says with the scriptures, like the
01:36:32: Noble Bereans. We're testing all things and holding fast to that which is good, which is the bar of scripture.
01:36:38: Kind of off camera here, John 17, 17, Jesus says, father sanctified them in the truth.
01:36:45: Your word is truth. And so just from a pastoral perspective, you're bringing out the deception that creeps in to the church and the communities and leads people astray.
01:36:57: And yeah, Myles, it definitely breaks my heart. Yeah, and this just further proves that Christians cannot fall for the bait when this organization tries saying stuff like, no, we're
01:37:06: Christians just like you. We're on the same team. No, once again, we see that Christians are not united with Adventism.
01:37:14: I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Adventists are nice people, Jeremiah, great people. That's why I'm doing this.
01:37:19: That's why this exists, not because I hate Adventists. I love Adventists. I want Adventists to come know the truth, but we need to call a spade a spade.
01:37:26: We need to call it as it is. We're supposedly apostate. God showed Ellen White all this.
01:37:32: You can't just broad brush that away. You can't just hand wave that away. This was allegedly shown to her in vision.
01:37:38: She claimed things like our pastors are deceived by Satan. They're tools of Satan that are using the
01:37:44: Bible to lead people astray because in these apostate Protestant churches, they don't really check the Bible for themselves.
01:37:50: They just believe the Bible as their pastor tells it to them, which is so ironic considering that's exactly what
01:37:56: Adventism is for the most part. It's just repeating the system. Evil angels are masquerading as Christians in our churches.
01:38:03: We're worse than heathen. God hates our prayers. They're an abomination to him. All these sorts of things. Yet out the other side of the mouth, it's no, no, no.
01:38:10: We're Christians just like you, brother. No, we're the enemy in their scope. And they take an entire chapter of scripture that's about the wicked and apply it to us.
01:38:21: Don't fall for it, folks. The third angel's message contains the most solemn warning found in the
01:38:29: Bible. Saying with a loud voice, if anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God's wrath poured full strength into the cup of his anger and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the lamb.
01:38:59: Friends, this final crisis involves true and false worship. A time is coming when everyone on earth will decide whether they will worship the beast and his image receiving his mark or will, by the grace of God, be true to him and receive his seal.
01:39:21: The proclamation of these very important messages is the mission of God's remnant people.
01:39:28: All right, so Jeremiah, now we get to one of the SDA church's favorite subjects.
01:39:34: One that they think they have a bulletproof understanding of, the mark of the beast.
01:39:40: What Ted presented was rather general. It'll have to do with true and false worship, which will determine if you're marked or sealed.
01:39:47: And he said, Revelation 14 .9 is the most solemn warning in the entire Bible. Before we look more closely at the
01:39:54: SDA church's claims, the audience wants to know, what would you posit that the mark of the beast is?
01:40:02: For one, I would begin of saying, you don't wanna start with that and build everything on top of it.
01:40:08: But I would, it's funny, cause I've changed eschatologies over the years. I'll just tell people I was that pre -millennial dispensational waiting for the rapture.
01:40:18: And so it's funny, cause I had that kind of answer. Where now, I look at the book of Revelation as kind of, it's rehashing cycles of how the church is being persecuted.
01:40:32: And so when I think about the mark of the beast, I'm not, for one, taking that hyper -literal, right?
01:40:39: But I'm thinking about what 1 John said, how there are already antichrist among you, those that have pledged allegiance to Satan.
01:40:49: You have the mention of the man of lawlessness and 1
01:40:55: Thessalonians in there. And so I don't claim to know, but I think of being in a good spot is when you have rejected the gospel of grace and you have embraced the lies of Satan ultimately.
01:41:10: Yeah, I'm in the GK Beals, like a modified idealism, the school like modified idealism.
01:41:17: I think that it gives the best presentation that doesn't fall into either ditch. So the futurist idea basically devoids the text from really having any sort of application to generations prior to always the present generation.
01:41:31: The historicist view, which is essentially what they're a part of, does a similar thing. And then the preterist view,
01:41:38: I think completely relegates it to the past and it doesn't necessarily have a present day application.
01:41:45: And so I'm of the opinion that the modified idealist understanding can both deal with the original audience that John was writing to, as well as the present day, that it's essentially any person who is part of the kingdom of darkness.
01:41:59: You don't have... Now, they're not gonna tell you the seal of God is the Holy Spirit, like Paul explicitly says in Ephesians 1 .13.
01:42:07: But I would argue that because the seal is the spirit of God, if you don't have the spirit of God, you by default are part of the kingdom of darkness and you are essentially part and marked for that domain.
01:42:17: And that's how it can have application in basically every generation. It's not just relegated to some future thing at some point in the future of like a microchip or all these crazy theories that you oftentimes hear in like the dispensationalist schools.
01:42:30: But let's talk here about the mark and the seal so I can break this down for you and you can get a better picture of what all they're saying here.
01:42:36: Because again, he ramrodded a lot in there if you understand the language. So to really meaningfully engage with an
01:42:44: Adventist folks on this subject, which is something I see a lot of people wanting to do, it is really important to understand what all they are claiming.
01:42:53: They are not saying, I repeat, they are not saying that the mark of the beast is a present reality.
01:43:02: They're not saying it's a present reality. If you say that to an
01:43:07: Adventist, they're gonna immediately just dismiss everything else that you have to say. Because it's such a basic thing that they're gonna say, oh, well, if you can't even get that right, then
01:43:16: I'm gonna listen to you. They don't believe it's a present reality. It only becomes a present reality once the image of the beast becomes a reality, which they claim is a form of apostate religion that will develop when church and state unite and enforce a national
01:43:32: Sunday worship and rest law. Ted is simply paraphrasing what the exposition of their beliefs book says where they write, quote, the third angel's message proclaims the most solemn and fearful warning in the
01:43:47: Bible. It reveals that those who submit to human authority in earth's final crisis will worship the beast in his image rather than God.
01:43:54: During this final conflict, two distinct classes will develop. One class will advocate a gospel of human devisings and will worship the beast in his image, bringing upon themselves the most grievous judgments.
01:44:07: The other class in market contrast will live by the true gospel and keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
01:44:15: Revelation 14, nine through 12. The final issue involves true and false worship.
01:44:21: The true, or when this issue is clearly brought before the world, those who reject
01:44:27: God's memorial of creatorship, the Bible Sabbath, choosing to worship and honor Sunday in the full knowledge that it is not
01:44:34: God's appointed day for worship will receive the mark of the beast. This mark is a mark of rebellions.
01:44:44: The beast claims it's change of the day of worship shows the authority even over God's law. The third angel's message directs the world's attention to the consequences of refusing to accept the everlasting gospel and God's message of the restoration of true worship.
01:45:01: Close quote. So they proof text Revelation 14, nine, just like Ted did, followed by all sorts of grandiose assertions that are supposedly just plainly there in the text.
01:45:12: Despite the Millerites entirely missing that the text had the investigative judgment, Seventh -day Sabbatarianism, investigative judgment, or I already said that, sorry, in the immortality of the soul, et cetera.
01:45:22: But all of this is asserted dogmatically because Ellen White was allegedly shown all of this envision.
01:45:28: For starters, she errantly claimed that the Pope changed the Sabbath. To try and support this, they'll point to various statements from people like Cardinal Gibbons, who said the
01:45:37: Roman Catholic Church changed the day of worship. They then read into these quotes that they're saying the
01:45:43: Pope did this, when in actuality by the church, they mean the apostles because they believe the apostles were the first Roman Catholics, and they claim that the first day of worship was instituted by Jesus, who began such with the apostles, who then handed it down to the present day.
01:46:02: So she's just objectively wrong here, but that's where the assertion is coming from that the beast claims to change the day of worship.
01:46:10: It was Ellen White who claimed to be shown by God that in the end of time, there will be two classes of people with the dividing line being the
01:46:18: Sabbath. The book doesn't even cite her on this claim, but they almost verbatim copy this over from a quote from Great Controversy without telling people.
01:46:27: Again, two pages later, they almost cited this exactly verbatim without noting such.
01:46:33: She proof texts Isaiah 8 .16 to say this proves that the Bible teaches that the 10 commandments have a seal and it's in the fourth commandment.
01:46:41: And when the Sabbath was fictitiously changed by the Pope, the seal of the law was actually taken from it, which is why she also included that in the duty of the true apostles of Jesus is to restore this seal back to its rightful position.
01:46:57: Eventually, apostate Protestantism and Roman Catholicism will unite, forming what they believe to be the image of the beast, a church -state union, which will legislate that everyone, small, great, rich, and poor, will have to worship and rest on Sundays.
01:47:13: It is at this point, the mark of the beast will begin to get issued. Oops, sorry,
01:47:22: I went ahead. This will eventually culminate in all of us apostate Christians uniting with the world under a delusion of Satan, where we'll allegedly be blinded by him, see only as he sees, and feel as he feels.
01:47:35: We will begin oppressing the humble remnant of Adventists and crush out their freedom to worship on Saturdays.
01:47:42: So much so that she claimed the entire world is gonna be stirred with enmity towards Seventh -day
01:47:48: Adventists since us apostates will allegedly be united with all the Buddhists and Hindus and Muslims and atheists.
01:47:54: We're gonna be so hopping mad that they won't worship on Sundays that eventually the entire world is gonna hate them.
01:48:04: This is gonna lead to supposedly a death decree going forth where it's gonna be sanctioned to hunt
01:48:11: Adventists down globally and have them put to death. And as you can see, the time of trouble was supposedly soon to break upon them back in 1890, just like it was present truth to believe such in 1849 as well, which
01:48:23: Ellen White also endorsed in vision. And as she notes in that final sentence here, only the
01:48:28: Adventists who keep the law perfectly will stand the test. As Jesus said, the entire law is summarized in love for God and love for neighbor.
01:48:36: Only those who actually keep the law perfectly will be able to make it through the time of trouble and be saved.
01:48:44: Because as she also claimed, a single spot or stain upon the character will keep one from receiving the seal of God.
01:48:54: The same thing being said in great controversy, by the way, for all the Adventists that just had an internal crisis moment and thought that this was just a one -off claim.
01:49:01: Nope, sorry, I cite this all the time. She said the condition that Jesus was in is the identical condition that you'll need to be found in if you wanna make it through the time of trouble, which
01:49:14: Jeremiah, you may not know this, sorry. You may not know this, but she claimed that this is because you'll have to stand before God without a mediator.
01:49:24: Jesus will cease being such. And if you aren't sinlessly perfect, Satan's gonna get you during the time of trouble.
01:49:31: You'll sin, you'll have stains on your character, you won't receive the seal, et cetera. All of that mess is included in their teaching on this.
01:49:40: Brother, what are your thoughts on all of that? If you don't have a mediator, a perfect mediator, then you will suffer the full just wrath of God on true judgment day.
01:49:53: So the fact that you're kind of bringing out that they deny that Jesus will somehow, they'll say that he'll cease being your mediator, that just, that goes against such clear teaching, part of Jesus's heavenly ministry now.
01:50:07: He's ruling and reigning now on our behalf, interceding on our behalf before God the
01:50:12: Father. So when I hear that, it just breaks my heart and it lets me know how much further outside of the faith that they actually are.
01:50:22: And yeah, they have to suction off of true orthodoxy, like you were saying earlier, and pretend that they are
01:50:28: Christian, right? But that's just to try to get in your ear to kind of shoehorn all of what
01:50:35: Ellen G. White's saying. Yeah, to begin proselytizing you. Yeah, I know, it's like Hebrews 7 explicitly says multiple times, and the author is citing from the
01:50:43: Psalter. It's like this was foretold, but long before the New Testament, that Jesus is a priest forever.
01:50:50: I mean, I've heard so many excuses to this. It's just crazy the mental gymnastics that they'll go through to try and uphold this.
01:50:56: Well, the office will be there forever, but he won't be being a mediator. I've heard that.
01:51:02: I've heard, it doesn't say that. I mean, it just, it does, friend. Then they'll come back with, well, if he's gonna be a mediator forever, you're saying that there's gonna be sin forever because they don't understand that the mediation of Christ is tied to the incarnation.
01:51:17: It's tied to him being the God -man. He's gonna forever be the God -man. Not just that, but they also don't understand that the priesthood of Christ being after the order of Melchizedek is a simultaneous priest -king role.
01:51:30: Ellen White claimed to be shown in vision that when he ceases being a mediator, he's gonna take off his priestly garments, which are supposed to symbolize his function as a priest, and he's gonna put on his kingly garments.
01:51:41: So he'll assume the role of a king at that point. They don't see it as a simultaneous role.
01:51:47: Again, Hebrews 7 is very clear. Melchizedek was a priest -king, a simultaneous role.
01:51:53: So they just don't understand the incarnation. They don't understand. It's funny because they try to claim that Christians don't actually understand the priestly ministry of Christ, that Christians don't understand the heavenly role of Christ.
01:52:05: And part of their duty in this present truth, restoration of truth, is to restore the truth about what
01:52:10: Christ is doing up in heaven, yet they're completely off. Like I said, you'll notice too that there was no mention of Ephesians 1 .13
01:52:17: here when it comes to the seal of God, even though, again, this is another area where it's just the plain didactic portions of scripture become obscure.
01:52:28: You'll get long -winded hopscotching all over the biblical text to try and infer that the fourth commandment is a seal and that it's in contrast to the mark of the beast and so on.
01:52:38: But Ephesians 1 .13 explicitly saying the Holy Spirit is the seal of God, oh, that's ignored.
01:52:45: It's said to be a second seal on top of the Sabbath or it's claimed that the Holy Spirit does the sealing but isn't the seal itself, despite the text verbatim saying such.
01:52:56: But a bonus point for you, because Ted didn't mention this, the third angel's message of Revelation 14 also apparently includes the announcement of the
01:53:07: Adventist health message and that one needs to adhere to a plant -based diet. She claimed that the
01:53:13: Adventist health message is the right arm of the gospel and that it's a part of the third angel's message just as closely connected with it as the arm and the hand are from the body.
01:53:24: Quote, the health reform I was shown is a part of the third angel's message and is just as closely connected with it as are the arm and the hand with the human body.
01:53:33: I saw that we as a people must take an advanced move in this great work. Ministers and people must act in concert.
01:53:41: God's people are not prepared for the loud cry of the third angel. They have a work to do for themselves which they should not leave for God to do for them.
01:53:49: He has left this work for them to do. It is an individual work. One cannot do it for another, close quote.
01:53:57: On top of that fact, she also claimed that if you reject the health message, you reject
01:54:03: God because he's the one that revealed the truth of it. Quote, God gave the light on health reform and those who rejected it rejected
01:54:13: God. One and another who knew better said it all came from Dr. Kellogg and they made war upon him.
01:54:20: This had a bad influence on the doctor. He put on the coat of irritation and retaliation. God did not want him to stand in the position of warfare and he does not want you to stand there, close quote.
01:54:31: So Jeremiah, I'm not sure if you knew that but the everlasting gospel also includes that you need to adopt a plant -based diet otherwise your soul is at risk.
01:54:43: Oh my, no, I didn't know that. Yeah, so this gets into their idea of, well, heaven is a return to Eden and Adam and Eve were only able to eat plants and they ate a plant -based diet.
01:54:54: And so while you're on probation now, which is a whole nother can of worms, you have to demonstrate that you can adhere to the heavenly diet.
01:55:03: You know, you're gonna be in beatific vision in the presence of incredible holiness and you're gonna be thinking, ah man,
01:55:09: I wish I could eat a steak. It's so unfortunate that I can only eat vegetables here.
01:55:15: Yeah, God has his children in all churches but through the remnant church, he proclaims a message that is to restore his true worship by calling his people out of apostasy and prepare them for Christ's return.
01:55:33: It is only through God's grace and relying on him that the remnant can accomplish their
01:55:39: God -given mission. You can learn more about God's remnant church and its mission by visiting the
01:55:46: URL at the bottom of the screen. I also encourage you to read the amazing book,
01:55:53: The Great Controversy, which is available free in multiple languages at egwritings .org.
01:56:02: Friends, the end is near. Jesus is coming soon. Now is the time to give our hearts fully to him and become a part of God's remnant people, fulfilling the mission he has called us to do.
01:56:18: I invite you to become a part of that mission today. So brother, after all you've heard,
01:56:28: God has children in all churches. Even those heathen Sunday ones where Satan's taken over and he's using them as his pawns.
01:56:36: What are your thoughts on what he said in light of everything that we've looked at tonight? It's a contradiction.
01:56:43: I mean, are we in Babylon or are we not? Are we a part of a kind of church, but not the one true church?
01:56:49: What does that mean? I got, to me, are we children of the devil or are we not?
01:56:55: I just, I don't understand it. Well, you're in luck because I'm about to explain it to you.
01:57:00: So you asked a question earlier and I said, we're gonna get to that. We're now at that part of the presentation, okay?
01:57:07: Sweet. So after everything we've looked at, they're still gonna tell you, no, no, no,
01:57:14: God has people in all churches. Actually, Ellen White said the majority of God's people are in other churches.
01:57:21: We're not saying we're the only ones that'll be saved. Yeah, folks, you have to understand what is meant by this.
01:57:28: Interestingly, but not surprising, Ted didn't expound upon the full scope of what they mean by this.
01:57:35: And the evidence for such is on their own website. On the webpage for this fundamental belief that Ted is explaining here, the remnant and its mission, which is literally just coming from the
01:57:50: Fundamental Beliefs book explaining this fundamental belief, they write, quote, the apostle
01:57:56: John, the last of Jesus' disciples, and the one who wrote Revelation, tells us exactly who
01:58:01: Satan will target. Satan's goal is to harm those who keep God's commandments and believe what
01:58:06: Jesus taught. But among the lawlessness of the corrupt world, God will call for his devoted followers to separate themselves from those who have rejected him.
01:58:16: Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, come out of Babylon, my people, lest you take part of her sins, lest you share in her plagues, for her sins are heaped as high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities,
01:58:27: Revelation 18, four through five. Those who do not come out of the wickedness of the world will be subject to the same fate as Satan, utter destruction.
01:58:39: God refuses to let sin go on forever, and those who hold on to sin will have to account for their deeds, 2
01:58:46: Corinthians 5 .10, close quote. So we saw earlier that Ellen White said the humble remnant is gonna be attacked by those evil, wicked
01:58:54: Protestants and Catholics who will be united with the world. We're gonna see as Satan sees, feel as he feels, be full of indignation toward Adventists, and we're what
01:59:04: Satan is using to attack the humble, pious remnant who keep the law and had this special prophetic utterance from Jesus, et cetera.
01:59:12: If we don't come join them, we're no different than the wicked world and share in the same fate as Satan, utter destruction.
01:59:19: They continue, quote, but God's remnant people are not just supposed to hide in holes as they separate themselves from the world.
01:59:27: God has a job for his people to do, a message they will deliver. For many people, this message will make the difference between eternal life with God and the permanent second death.
01:59:40: All who hear it will have to make a single vital decision, either to follow
01:59:46: God or side with Satan and share his fate, close quote.
01:59:54: So the remnant isn't supposed to fear the wicked Christians that they say will one day hunt them down globally, don't hide in holes.
02:00:01: God has a special job and message for them to take to us apostates. Upon doing so, once a person hears it, they have to make the life or death decision to either join them, which is equated with serving
02:00:16: God, or side with Satan and share in his fate, utter destruction. So folks, don't fall for Ted Wilson's posturing here and the sweet, sappy background music.
02:00:27: God only has people in other churches insofar as they haven't heard the
02:00:32: SDA message yet and need to come join the SDAs. They claim the end won't come until their novel message has gone to the whole planet, every tribe, tongue, people, and nation, because they equate this novel message with what goes to every tribe, tongue, people, and nation, not what
02:00:47: Christians are taking to the world. And that really answers the question in focus tonight.
02:00:54: Unfortunately, Christians are not on the same mission as the SDA church. They believe they are called out and separate from the rest of us.
02:01:02: They are sharing a different message. At the end of the day, the
02:01:08: SDA church sees their mission as taking their novel message to the world, as their mission statement plainly says.
02:01:15: And now everyone knows what all is being Trojan -horsed into this phrase, three angels' messages, as well as some of the rocky history surrounding its doctrinal development.
02:01:26: The SDA church is here to get you hooked on prophecy and make you feel like you have a special insight into such like no one else does.
02:01:34: And it's this special Gnostic insight that's gonna bring you closer to God than all of those wicked
02:01:39: Sunday Christians out there. We just listened to an SDA pastor in the members only section on the channel who outright said the data shows that the
02:01:47: SDA church's evangelistic efforts are most successful with evangelicals who already have a bent towards Bible prophecy.
02:01:57: Christians need to understand that this organization ultimately considers itself to be distinct and separate.
02:02:04: We're Babylon. They're supposedly the ones keeping the law. Ellen White said they're the depositories of God's law.
02:02:10: And in every generation, God has had a people who they were the depositories of his law. And the SDA church is that at the end of time.
02:02:16: They have a prophet with a special prophetic word from Jesus that no one else does. And this unique prophetic word is essentially a restoration of the full gospel, the complete gospel, the everlasting three angels messages, present truth only for the end times gospel that the apostles didn't even preach.
02:02:35: We need to be sharing the true gospel with Seventh -day Adventist folks. Lots of them do not like me saying this and that's fine.
02:02:42: But again, a spade is a spade. Christians have to understand that behind all of the language is a different message, a different mission, a different gospel, and a different God, et cetera.
02:02:56: Which is why the call of this platform is for Adventist to come out of her. My people, there are sheep that are caught in this movement that the triune
02:03:04: God is absolutely calling out. They have ears to hear, and we trust that the
02:03:10: Lord is a powerful savior, not a potential one, and they will be let out.
02:03:15: May God use this effort for days, weeks, and years to come for the advancement of his kingdom. Brother, would you mind closing us out by sharing the gospel?
02:03:24: It'd be my honor. So the gospel is a proclamation of good news.
02:03:29: And so why do we need good news? Because we are all sinners before the one true
02:03:35: God who is holy, holy, holy. And so he will execute his justice on lawbreakers.
02:03:43: And so we deserve wrath for our sin because ultimately all of our sin is aimed vertical against God, the
02:03:50: God who gave you breath, the God that sustains your life. And we've all went astray from birth.
02:03:57: We've all sought our own way and our own devices, and we have transgressed God's perfect law, which is holy, righteous, and good.
02:04:04: The book of Acts, many individuals ask the questions, sirs, what must I do to be saved?
02:04:11: Saved from my sins, saved from this temporary world of destruction?
02:04:16: Well, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved. We put our faith in Christ. We're saying a faith plus nothing, not your obedient works to a list of commands, like the command to be baptized or to keep the
02:04:33: Sabbath day holy. The Sabbath we find in Jesus Christ.
02:04:38: He perfectly kept the Sabbath holy. And so the Christians true rest, true shalom is in Christ who not only suffered and died on our behalf, but he resurrected the third day.
02:04:52: And so we celebrate a new Sabbath in Jesus Christ. Thank you so much.