Proof of Creation with Dr. Jason Lisle

Apologia Studios

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:00

The goal for New St. Andrews College, as it trains its students, is not to make people who will be able to go out and just get jobs.

00:09

People who will just be bricks in the wall of our society. The goal for New St. Andrews College is to make students into men and women who will really impact culture.

00:24

Go to ApologiaStudios .com, get signed up, partner with us on all access. You get all of the radio programs, you get the

00:30

TV show, you get the after show, including Apologia Academy, and you partner with us in ministry, bringing the gospel around the world.

01:07

I really encourage everybody to go, and I think probably the best place you could just go look for it is search on YouTube, Jason Lyle Fractals.

01:16

It's an amazing discussion, amazing, it's late. It's an amazing discussion.

01:23

You'll really see how the Christian worldview provides a grounding for so many aspects of our reality, and so I highly encourage a look at that discussion from Dr.

01:34

Jason Lyle. Hey, let's talk. You got a card? I do. Let's do a discussion about science.

01:40

Yeah. Yeah, Mr. White. Science. All right.

01:45

Okay. This isn't about science. Okay. Unless you're talking about the science of law and justice.

01:54

We'll weave in and out. Yeah, yeah. Yes. Did you see the - El Camino? Yes. Yes, I did.

02:00

Great ending. That was also really good. Yes. There was only a small bit of Mr. White in there, though. Very small. Very small. Very small.

02:06

And no solves, disappointing that. Yeah. Sorry for the spoiler alert. Anyways, in LA, did you see what they just announced this week, that they -

02:15

That they don't have power? That they're out of money? There is that. Well - That they're gay. Well -

02:21

No. Okay. All those things, but they've already known that. That's not new. This is new information. But they're not any longer going to prosecute petty crimes under the amount of $950.

02:31

I should see that. So you'll get a ticket, but they're going to dismiss the uncollected citations.

02:39

Man, unbelief is so stupid. Yeah. And so when I saw that, I was like, okay, so if I get caught carrying my firearm in LA, I'm probably going to get charged with a felony, right?

02:52

I'm not sure what the law is, but it's pretty - I mean, it's California, so you have to have your firearm and your ammo, or you're locked up in separate locations, which is completely pointless.

03:02

Yes. You know? Yeah. So - If someone attacks you, you're like, hang on! Yeah. Hold on, let me -

03:07

Oh, I dropped my keys. So, yeah, so that's most likely what would happen. But if my firearm got stolen, right, it's less than $950, so the police would just be like, meh.

03:21

Meh. Me - Sorry. Yeah, it's interesting. It's just crazy. So we were talking with Dr.

03:28

Lyle about how the biblical worldview gives a grounding. It provides the preconditions necessary for the scientific method, for sense perception to be meaningful, for laws of logic, laws of arithmetic, those sorts of things.

03:41

But this comes down to another thing the Christian worldview provides a grounding for, and that is ultimate ethics.

03:47

Exactly. So the law of God, God's - it's interesting because this discussion actually does, and you know this, rubs against the common

03:56

Christian culture. Yeah. Right? And this gets to the law of God discussion.

04:03

Evangelicalism in the West today has a very different perspective than biblical Christianity or historic

04:09

Christianity. So when you think about even the Puritans, the Christians who came over to this continent and started establishing communities, when they started establishing communities, those communities were not just willy -nilly saying, hey, how should we deal with theft?

04:24

Maybe a ticket and sort of just let it go? They were saying, well, how do you deal with theft? They didn't have a question about like, where do you go for the answer?

04:32

When they were even writing up their laws and statutes, they pointed to the law of God. They directly quoted from Deuteronomy, Leviticus, those sorts of things.

04:41

So for example, in the early colonies, it was still against the law to have sex with animals.

04:48

And that was for a reason. It was against the state law. Yeah. It was against the law to have sex with animals. It was considered an abomination and a death penalty if people would engage in that sort of a thing.

04:58

If you murdered somebody in the early colonies, because they pointed to God's law, they actually upheld human value and dignity.

05:05

And they said, for example, in God's law, it's interesting in Exodus, as we get the Ten Commandments and it says, thou shall not kill, the word ratzak, the semantic domain of the word ratzak is murder.

05:16

Because thou shall not kill, but then it turns around a few verses later and it says, and if somebody does kill somebody, you kill them back.

05:23

Yeah. That's my way of summarizing. Kill them back. That's your Hebrew. Yeah. It's a Hebrew transliteration.

05:29

Kill them back. So there's the biblical worldview that says, look, human life is so valuable and has so much purpose.

05:38

There's so much beautiful dignity in a human being that if somebody goes so far as to actually kill, to murder somebody, then they deserve, through the state, execution.

05:49

So anyways, early on in the colonies, because of the Christian worldview, they actually pointed to God's law and biblical standards.

05:55

But we've gotten away from that. I think a lot of it has to do with eschatology. I hate to keep talking about that, but it is a reality.

06:03

And a lot of it has to do with very perverse ways that we have twisted the biblical worldview in terms of the application of God's law under the new covenant.

06:12

People think today, because we're saved by grace through faith, people say, so the law is irrelevant. But that wasn't

06:18

Paul's perspective. No. As a matter of fact, in the premier text where Paul talks about the gospel in a systematic way in Romans 3, in the same breath while he's saying that it's all a gift of God's grace, it's all for the propitiation of Jesus, and it's apart from law to any degree.

06:35

The law can't be used to justify anybody. He then says, do we then make void the law through faith?

06:41

So in the same discussion about faith alone, he says, so then do we void it? Which law is he talking about?

06:47

The known law, the law that can't justify you. He says, no, we actually uphold it because now we're

06:54

Christians, we're saved. So because we have a perverse view of the law of God in evangelicalism today, we say it's irrelevant.

07:01

We have California saying, well, you know, petty theft, you know, a ticket, maybe a ticket, there's no justice.

07:11

So it's a different perspective than say God has in Deuteronomy chapter four, when he gives the law to his people, he has a different perspective about the law.

07:20

He actually says that the law that he's giving was supposed to be their wisdom in the sight of the peoples, that all the people were supposed to look into God's law and from the surrounding pagan nations, they were supposed to look at that law and say, gosh, that's amazing.

07:34

Look at these statutes. Look how just this is. Like, look, if somebody steals God over here in Israel, he says they have to pay it back.

07:43

And then pay it back double. You get to keep your hand. Yeah, exactly. You're not going to chop my arm off for stealing a thing of bread, like that's justice.

07:52

And look, hey, over here, he has even a different statute, case law example, where if you steal something that has to do with somebody's business and production, it's a different repayment because you've taken away somebody's business.

08:03

And so they would say, my goodness, this is justice or in God's law, here's a great example,

08:11

Pastor Luke, if in God's law, if you rape somebody, this is big.

08:18

We say today, because we don't want God's law, we say, well, look, this guy raped somebody.

08:25

What do we do about it? It's interesting. My girlfriend in high school, she was raped, and she was raped in her bathroom floor on her birthday.

08:36

I know, very tragic situation. It's horrible to even describe. But I think it's important for us to talk about things like this because it's reality.

08:42

It's the world we live in, sinful world. These things happen. How do you punish it? Well, she was raped on her birthday by a stranger who came to the party.

08:51

She didn't know him, but when she walked back in the back of the house, he grabs her, brings her to the bathroom and does this horrible, horrible thing.

08:57

Well, they caught him, thankfully, and his punishment was six months in jail.

09:03

Six months in jail. That's how the state of California, San Diego, by the way, that's where it was. San Diego and California punished a man who raped a girl on her bathroom floor on her birthday.

09:13

It was probably during a rolling blackout. That's why no one noticed. I mean, it's serious. What do you do with something like that?

09:18

Someone says, what statute should we apply to this? Because we don't want God's statutes, we don't value a girl because she was only 14 years old or 15 years old when this happened.

09:30

We don't value a young girl like that enough to say that what happened was horrific. So we say, was your first offense?

09:38

Okay, six months should do it, but it's like, what did you take away from her and what did you destroy in her life and how valuable is she and her body?

09:47

So we say no to God's law. So six months in California penalty for rape, and then you get into situations where somebody has their property stolen, and we say, well, you just give them a ticket for it.

09:58

And it's like, well, wait, what about the victim? So God's concerned in his law for the victim.

10:04

And so the premier person to go to to say, well, how should we view this?

10:09

How do we view life in God's law and the application of God's law is Jesus. Jesus says in Matthew 5, his most famous sermon in history, the most famous sermon in history, his most famous sermon.

10:21

He says in Matthew 5, 17 through 19, do not even begin to think. May namasete in the

10:27

Greek is what it says. He's not saying stop thinking. He says don't even start thinking. That I've come to abolish the law of the prophets.

10:34

I did not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. And so he actually says the person who is greatest in the kingdom of God is the one who does the law and teaches it.

10:43

Which law is he talking about? The known law. But Jesus, when he's asked, what's the greatest commandment in the law?

10:50

He actually quotes from Leviticus. That's the law book, right? With all the statutes about sex with animals and theft and murder and rape and all the rest.

11:00

Well, Jesus says, here's the first from Deuteronomy 6. You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and soul and mind and strength.

11:07

And then he says, you shall love your neighbor as you love yourself. What's interesting is people say, well, that's it for the Christian now. I say to that, thank you, you just gave me all the law and the prophets.

11:16

Yeah, right. Because all the law and the prophets are built upon love for God and love for neighbor. So even the statutes of justice in terms of penalties, that is love for neighbor and love for God.

11:29

So for example, when I let a criminal get away with theft as a civil magistrate.

11:36

When I let him get away with theft, what I'm doing is I'm actually not loving the victim because now

11:42

I haven't allowed for the victim to be made whole. So I'm not loving the victim and I'm letting the person who committed the crime to really get away.

11:51

When I don't punish rape properly in culture and society, I am hating my neighbor.

11:57

Because God says, love God, love neighbor, and all the law and the prophets, Jesus says, are built upon that.

12:02

So what it means is when God says, here's how you deal with theft in culture and society. This is the standard of justice.

12:10

What it means is, that's how you love your neighbor. And if you don't follow God's revelation of a proper statute, then you're not loving your neighbor.

12:18

Because the law and the prophets are built upon that, which means punishing rapists with the death penalty.

12:24

When there's proper evidence and witnesses and all the rest and God has statute, God has rules for that. Two to three independent lines of witness and testimony have to be in place to actually bring that charge against somebody.

12:35

What it means is the penalty of death for the rapist is the proper way to love your neighbor.

12:42

The penalty for repayment of theft is the proper way to love your neighbor.

12:47

The penalty of death for murder is the way to love your neighbor.

12:53

And so that's how you love your neighbor. And then, so what we always say is we describe it like this. Love God and love neighbor,

12:59

Jesus says, that's it. And everything's built upon that. So you do the ten commandments and you work from there.

13:06

Love God. Have no other God before me. Don't have a God that looks like me. Don't take my name in vain.

13:12

That's how you love God. Second table, how do you love your neighbor? Don't lie to them. Don't steal from them.

13:19

Don't covet their stuff. Don't murder them. Like, and don't commit adultery. How do you love your neighbor? How do you love your neighbor?

13:25

And then further, when you get to the statutes of penalties, God is saying, and then here's how you love me and love your neighbor with the penalties, proper way to order society.

13:35

So, you know, we were just talking with Dr. Lyle about the biblical worldview and God's word is the foundation for sense, perception, logic, science, and all the rest.

13:45

But I would actually argue, we would argue that actually the biblical worldview is the foundation and grounding for proper justice and righteousness in society.

13:52

Yeah. And I was going to say, even when it comes to rape, the way we handle it in our society, ultimately the only person that the state is truly loving, and it's not a just love, is the rapist, right?

14:07

Because they're not giving them what they deserve. And then they turn around and then they steal, the state steals, because they make us pay for the rapist's time in the cage for however long it is, right?

14:21

And then if there is an offspring produced from the rape, then they allow murder.

14:28

You know, it just continues further and further. They'll kill the victim. Exactly. The wrong direction, right? Yeah. So we will advocate execution as a result of rape, but only executing the child.

14:40

Exactly. Not the father who actually committed the crime. So we're not against executions for rape.

14:45

It just has to be the innocent victim. Exactly. So when God's standards are upheld, yeah, there's actually more crime committed than if they would have just handled the one appropriately.

14:56

Yeah, God's law is, well, man's law today is concerned with rehabilitation, but that's not the role of the state.

15:04

No. The state is not the church. Nope. The state is not the place that's supposed to bring healing in the criminal.

15:11

Yeah. The state is the place that's supposed to bring justice. As a matter of fact, it's interesting. This is actually powerful.

15:17

I think we've talked about this. Because Christians have a hard time with categories with this, in terms of the death penalty, they have a hard time with categories.

15:27

So Christians say, well, I want salvation for everybody, and we ought to want that. We ought to. The church is the place for mercy in terms of extending that mercy of the cross out to the world, saying, look, look to Jesus for salvation.

15:42

I want murderers and rapists and thieves and adulterers to be saved, and guess what?

15:49

That's me, right? But it's interesting, because in God's law, from the mouth of God, he says to his people in terms of the death penalty, he says, if somebody kills somebody, this is the penalty, it's death.

16:02

He says, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. That means equal justice. He doesn't mean gouge out a person's eye.

16:09

He means just weights and scales, balances. But he tells his people, when he says death penalty for murder, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, he says this, your eye shall not pity them.

16:23

And I believe that because we don't obey God in the area of what is righteous justice in an area of penalty, because we allow for pity, right, in the courts, now you've got people in the courts that are supposed to be the distributors of justice to make the victim whole, to love them, who are pitying, saying, oh,

16:49

I feel so bad. We need to work on rehabilitating him. And it's like, but your job is not to pity. Your job is to bring justice, to love your neighbor.

16:58

That's what you're supposed to do. It's the church's job to come in and extend the mercy and the forgiveness and say, point to Jesus.

17:04

But the state's role is not to pity. The state's role is to say, what did you do? Here's the proof, you're really guilty.

17:12

You need to pay them back. Or if the crime is very serious, it's death penalty and all the rest.

17:20

So the state is not supposed to be concerned with rehabilitation, that's the church's role. The state is supposed to be concerned with extending justice, and it's supposed to be concerned with the victim and not the criminal.

17:32

It's supposed to be to see the criminal as, you're guilty, therefore, this is what you owe. Here's what you ought to do to make them whole again.

17:40

And so the state is supposed to be so concerned with the victim that we say, I need to love the victim ultimately here.

17:47

So what do you owe them? Now, the state of California is perverse because it says no to God's law.

17:56

And so it doesn't know what gender is. It doesn't know what proper whole sexuality is.

18:01

And then it starts stretching out across the board and saying, well, I see this person who's lowly and hurting right here.

18:07

So let me steal from this person over here, take their stuff to pay for their stuff. So I'm gonna actually have a moral failing in your life by stealing from you to take care of them.

18:18

So they don't understand personal property, all those things. And they make victims out of all of society because they pity one person's plight.

18:26

And in the area of justice, they say, well, we're not gonna be so concerned with you having your stuff stolen anymore.

18:32

We're gonna be more concerned with leaving. So because we've abandoned

18:37

God's law on culture and society, we don't have a grounding for science. We don't have a grounding for morality and justice.

18:44

We're in this world of just total chaos. And the good news of the gospel of the kingdom is that Jesus is ruling and reigning on his throne.

18:53

Isaiah two, Isaiah 42, we can keep going, promise that as the kingdom of God expands across the earth and the nations come up to God's mountain,

19:03

Isaiah two says, the law of God, the Torah goes forth from the people of God, which ultimately establishes

19:10

Isaiah 42, the justice that the coastlands are waiting for.

19:16

Isaiah 42 has the promise of Messiah's kingdom. And it says that he's gonna do what? He's gonna establish justice in the earth.

19:22

So it's not just salvation, souls being saved. God is concerned with establishing justice in the earth.

19:30

One of the things I think we need to get our minds around as 21st century evangelicals is that God doesn't change.

19:39

He's the God of mercy and justice in the old Testament. And he's the God of mercy and justice in the new.

19:45

The glory of the new Testament is that mercy is settled at the cross. It's a once for all sacrifice.

19:52

But what Christ is concerned with in the world is the ruling and reigning king of kings is to bring about that salvation and justice and light and salt.

20:01

And he does it through his church, which brings us I think maybe as a final word to one of the aspects we've tried to extend that out of Apology of Church is in the area of justice for the pre -born.

20:14

Exactly. And we have a film up right now. It's on YouTube and Facebook.

20:20

And hopefully by the time this goes up on Amazon Prime as well, that's what we're working on.

20:25

At least if it's not there yet, that's what we're working on. It's called Babies Are Still Murdered Here. And it's about an hour and 40 minute long documentary.

20:32

It'll take you through from soup to nuts. Here's what's wrong. Here's the answer. Here's all the glorious things that God has done.

20:39

Encourage you guys all to watch that. Endabortionnow .com is also where you can go to watch it. Go to the website.

20:45

You can go there to get signed up, to get trained, to get free resources. We don't want anything from your church.

20:50

We just wanna help. Exactly. And right now we have close to 450 churches locally, local churches who are out saving lives just this week before we filmed this.

21:00

We got word from just one church that they saved five children in one morning.

21:06

That's one church that saved five children. It's amazing. It is amazing. Praise God. That is awesome.

21:11

All right, so we're good? Yeah. All right guys, so go to endabortionnow .com to get more. Go get their training, get the resources and go to apologiestudios .com

21:20

to get all the podcasts, radio episodes, all the free training, get all the TV shows, the after shows,

21:26

Apology Academy, everything right there. Thank you guys for watching next week with Jeff Durbin. We'll catch you guys next week. Thank you guys.