Provoked - Creating Christian Media for the Glory of God W/Marcus Pittman

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00:04

Brothers, what we do in life echoes in eternity.

00:16

I mean, this is what's wrong with the Christian church today. We don't know who God is, and we don't know who we are.

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This is where we hold them. This is where we fight. Officer, you need to repent of your lawless conduct.

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You don't know the law, and yet you pretend to represent it. That's not law enforcement, sir.

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That's being a thug. We will not stop fighting and bothering you all until this monstrous, barbaric practice of legalized abortion ends, and we are teaching our children to do the same.

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God's Word says that the shed blood of innocent humans cries out for justice, and mark my words, they will have their day in court.

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Nobody gets saved by being treated nicely. They get saved by hearing the gospel. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the

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Word of Christ. If we don't open our mouths and commend Christ, we're not loving

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Him, no matter what we're doing with our hands. So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.

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That's what we've got to do as Christians. Not lackluster type of stuff. We have to give it all that we have for His glory in every single aspect.

01:37

Hey, welcome to Provoked. We've got a live show today. Our first live show. What's up, guys? Welcome to the show.

01:43

We wanted to do a live show to hopefully address and answer some of your questions. Hopefully they're not crazy.

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We do have two redheads on the show today, so it's probably going to be a mix of hopefully helpful stuff for you, maybe a little bit of dumpster fire and a train wreck all at the same time.

02:01

I'm Zach, and this is my sister, Desi. Hello, thank you for joining us today. We're hoping that this podcast has been an encouragement to you guys to get out and preach the gospel, rescue babies, and destroy cultural idols.

02:14

The first thing we have to always get into is encouraging you to get all access if you haven't yet.

02:20

Do you want to explain? Yeah, we've got lights and we've got bills we've got to pay to keep this thing going, so we would just pray and encourage you to support us with your prayer support, as we're trying to say.

02:32

Also, if you can go to apologiestudios .com and become an all -access member, that's going to help you in your attempt to study the scriptures and receive all of the great information that we have via that great platform that we have.

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Of course, we have Bonson U, which is absolutely incredible. Go get that. As you become that all -access member, you give us the support and really the financial help that we need to not only continue what we're doing, but to sail off to the future and accomplish all that God would have for us for His glory and His glory alone.

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Please do that. We've got a cool show today. We have one of our favorite people on.

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We're going to bring him on now because we want him to be a part of this entire discussion. Who that is, is

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Ginger Spice? No, it's King Ginger. It's Marcus Pittman.

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What's up, Marcus? Hey, man. It's great to be here. I have my Christian attempt at green -screening.

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I like it. It's just lure TV. Good job. We're trying to get him to do the San Francisco Bridge. I figure this, even with being able to see through my headphones, is better than my grandma's room with all the doilies.

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Right on. I like doilies. I like the lure symbol.

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Hey, we know you're super busy. We're excited about what you're doing. I'm super excited. I've always been a huge movie buff.

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I'm excited about that platform and the future moving forward with lure. We'll get more into that.

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Thanks for taking your time and popping on the show. At any time, we can go look over at that live feed, and if we have any questions, we will try to answer them the best that we can.

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The crazier that they are will probably be the most likely for us to answer on this episode.

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Don't say that. Marcus, how did you like Fight Left Feast? How did that go? It was really great.

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It was a lot of people there, which was awesome. The best part,

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I think, about it is it wasn't just one of those normal theological discussions per se.

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The theological conferences where they just pick a doctrine of God and they pull it out of a hat, and then that's the theme of the conference.

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They had a theological aspect to it with the politics of sex, but there's all this discussion that always seems to happen about building things and growing businesses and a theological framework around that.

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They had a really good CEO lunch with people who were just building businesses.

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That was one of the things they had on the side. Just tons of stuff like that. There was just a bunch of different businesses that were set up as exhibitors that you wouldn't normally see at a bigger theology conference or especially one of the big

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EVA theology conferences. You surely wouldn't see that sort of stuff, but it was really cool because it's sort of like I felt like it was the best way to describe it is it's a bunch of blue -collar

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Christians who just want to build things, and there's millionaires that started plumbing businesses.

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It's sort of like the dirty jobs of Christian conferences. That's the best way to describe it.

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That's cool, and I can understand why it's so encouraging, especially in the state of our nation and what's going on globally. I think people want to tend to just batten down the hatches and kind of utilize a faulty eschatological system and just not build.

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Look what's happening. It's a fulfillment of prosperity, of course, self -fulfillment, and let's not build.

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Let's just anchor down and see what happens when that is not the post -millennial view, the view of victory, the view of, of course, generational outlook, and that's super cool, man.

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That is exceptionally encouraging with the way things are going, and that's what we have to do is move forward.

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Build, build, build for Christ, and I know that's what you're doing with what you're doing. So, hey, let's get into—you wanted to get into some news and some questions to ask

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Marcus? Yeah, I just wanted to hear how it's going out there in Idaho. I know you guys had some crazy mandate stuff going on, so if you just want to share a little bit about what's going on in your state.

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Well, they just—they actually just did the— they did like some sort of crisis medical care.

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They were—essentially now they ration out Medicare based on the urgency of your need, so it's essentially we've, in like one fail swoop, have become socialized medicine in Idaho, and I haven't been there in a month because we've been traveling and road tripping for lore and stuff, but it is, from what

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I hear, really bad, and if I understand—I could be interpreting this wrong. Even if I'm saying it right, people would still say

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I'm wrong, but what I heard was that they declared the emergency based on a staffing shortage, and they fired a bunch of nurses beforehand, so it's like they fired a bunch of nurses for not getting the sacrament, and then they went and declared a state of emergency based on a staffing shortage, which essentially gave them all sorts of federal money that the hospitals are more than glad to accept, so I don't believe any of it.

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Yeah. I actually had a family member of ours just message me. She's an unbeliever, but she is a nurse, and she was telling me that people that she's vaccinated to— well, actually,

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I shouldn't have said that word, but you know, she got the thingy, and she's saying that she has some of her coworkers who have been working 10, 20 years getting fired because of their choice not to do it, and so she's just appalled, obviously, but it's just insane.

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I mean, I can't even— sometimes I wake up, and I'm like, this is just—I can't even put my mind around that this is actually real, this is going on in our country, you know?

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All around the world. Yeah. It's not just here. No, it's true, yeah, but we're supposed to have a free country, so I can see it in other socialist countries, but you know, it's crazy.

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It actually seems like it's happening the least in third -world countries that have embraced the gospel recently.

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Like, I was looking at— I think it was like one Latin country where they have— they're actually passing— you know what?

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They're just passing out certain things that help in medicine bags, so I'm trying to watch my language here.

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But I mean, you know, so— and then, yeah, yeah, so it's just interesting to see these third -world countries who are actually not being as harmed as much as the first -world countries where the humanists have taken over.

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Yeah. So I think there's a spiritual element to it. Oh, totally. That's what I was going to say. It's just so hard to wrap your mind around it, which is—

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I don't know if we can possibly do it and, like, give a definitive answer, because it's such a global reality.

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You're like, are all these nations in cahoots, really, just to weaponize what's going on for their financial gain?

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And maybe that's a part of it, but I think what we can— But the Reformation was a global reality, too. That's true, and that's what

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I'm getting— exactly, and I know where you're getting to. And there are these small pockets, like in Scotland and stuff, that actually were able to escape the tyranny of the

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Catholic Church, and they were really influential in helping with the

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Reformation during that time because they were kind of preserved. There's a lot of cool stories about that. And so I think we're seeing those pockets right now.

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But it's a fun time. Yeah, it's a wild time. And like you were talking about, the spiritual element behind it, really the blessing of the

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Reformation and God moving, I think what we can know for certain that we are a world under judgment. A whole world, yeah.

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Yeah. No question about it. Exactly, and it's based upon the shedding of innocent blood. And the chickens have just come to roost.

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I mean, the Scriptures say, God will not be mocked. A man will reap what he sows. And this is what we're dealing with.

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And so the best way to deal with it as Christians in the face of potential increasing persecution and judgment is just to be faithful, is to preach the gospel, to build, to do what we do the best that we can do.

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And sometimes like Nehemiah, right, you have to have a hammer in one hand and a sword in the other, because you're getting attacked, but it doesn't stop the building from happening.

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And I'm thankful, dude, that you're building in the midst of it. Hey, I got a question from one of our brothers named

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Daniel of Smyrna. And he says this, do you think a Christian -themed beer company would take off?

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I have a beer called Reformed and feature flavors like Calvin and Zwingli. What do you think,

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Marcus? I think so. I think it's good.

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I think I would probably try not to market to such a small niche audience and try to just make a general good beer.

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Yeah, that's what I would do too. Yeah, definitely. Because I think within Christendom, a beer company taking off,

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I don't know. It's because I was just talking to my sister about this. We as Christians like to major on the minors, right?

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We like to demonize things like beer and tattoo and cigars.

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Long hair. Yeah, long hair on men. We like to spend a lot of our time focused on that.

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And so I think within the broader, maybe American evangelical Christendom, and it's false piety,

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I don't know if it would take off so much. I have a flavor recommendation though if you do go that route.

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And it needs to have a label of the church lady, Dana Carvey, and it should be called the church lady IPA. Come on.

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That's a pretty good idea right there. So hopefully that answered your question, Daniel. Yeah, just do it.

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Just focus on making a really good tasting beer and do it all for the glory of God and see where that takes off.

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But yeah. All right. What else did you want to talk about in the news? Oh, I was just going to talk about California, our home state.

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They've just lost their mind. And so Newsom, he beat the recall. Even though every single, almost every single

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California that I know, and I know a lot of Californians, they all wanted him out. But somehow he beat it.

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Of course he did. They've got some of the strictest mandates. LA County, I think they're enforcing kids 12 and up to get vaccinated to go to school.

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And yet they just had their Emmy Awards and they're all there just laughing it up, having a good time, maskless.

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It's like Hunger Games. Yeah. Rules only apply to the little people. Yeah. The minions.

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You know, of course we know that like we suppress the truth and unrighteousness and we're blind and we're dead in our sins.

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But sometimes you just look at it and you're like, they really, they can't see it. Like the just the blaring irony and just inconsistencies are so stark.

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And you would think that they could at least see that, but they can't, you know? Yeah, absolutely.

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The audio's getting weird. I feel like I'm super loud all of a sudden. Yeah, audio's going crazy right now.

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But what do you mean, Marcus, when you said, of course they did? What do you mean by that? Well, I meant that Gavin Newsom, peace be upon him, obviously won the election fair and square.

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Right. Right, absolutely. Well, I think what we're going to see is a mass exodus from California into the red states.

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So I think we're going to be having a lot of... I don't know if that's a good thing. Yeah, I don't know because it turns them purple. It's happened in Idaho too, right?

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And they're not like repenting and then coming to Idaho. I think there was actually a report that Mark Zuckerberg was,

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I don't know if you saw the image on the 4th of July of Mark Zuckerberg and he was like on the surfboard with the

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American flag. But that was taken at Coeur d 'Alene in Idaho, which is one of the most conservative cities, one of the most conservative big cities in the country.

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And from what was being reported was that he is looking to buy up a bunch of property and maybe make a

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Facebook headquarters there. And people are worried that that'll convert it blue.

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Oh, yeah. I don't understand why, well,

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I guess just price, the cost of living in California, but why would somebody that's a liberal want to get out of California other than...

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Because they get to pay less taxes. Right, yeah. Of course. And it doesn't work.

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A socialistic governing system does not work. They're like, I'm going to vote that way and then get the heck out of there. Right. You should see the homeless cities in LA right now.

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Well, even in Silicon Valley, you have employees for these massive tech industries like Google and Facebook and that stuff.

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And you have employees just living in an RV on the property because they can't afford housing.

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And they work for these major companies. So the housing market is just so insane that even though they're paid well, they're like, it's better to live in an

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RV than it is to buy one of these houses. But that's just going to force people. It really is going to force people to move into the country to the more rural areas and develop those rural areas because people can work from home.

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We were in, me and my wife, maybe a year ago or several months ago, we were in Pennsylvania where my wife's dad lives in the, what do they call those mountains up there?

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But anyway, it's an hour and a half from New York City in Pennsylvania in the mountain, in Poconos, in the

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Poconos. And their housing market's going crazy because everybody's like fleeing

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New York City and they're like buying up like houses because they're like, they get paid a lot of money, but they're just, they can work from home.

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They're tech developers. So you're going to have like these tech developers who are getting like six figure salaries, which is an insane amount of money for these little areas in the

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Poconos. Like that's, nobody makes that. You know, they're just like small biker towns and the only businesses are really like small bars and restaurants for them, you know?

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And so, but you're going to have these, you know, pretty much millionaires moving in and they're going to get bored and they're going to want to like build things and develop, invest that money.

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And so a lot of these rural communities are, I think are going to get a lot of great growth.

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And the good news is that a lot of these rural communities are pretty heavily churched. So it might actually work in scattering the pagans and getting them converted.

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Yeah. Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah, even though we're kind of worried about the

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Arizona housing crisis, or sorry, the market, you know, drop it a little bit.

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But with what, with Gavin staying on his throne, I don't think that's going to happen. My own home increased in value 100%, over 100 % within just a couple of years.

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So because of that exodus out of California. That's a bubble. Yeah, oh totally. Yeah, with all the people escaping these socialistic type of governing systems,

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I don't know if it's going to crash if people are seeking so much inventory in places like Arizona and Texas and Florida and stuff like that, but we shall see.

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It's probably going to crash because there's other economic factors that are happening with like, you know, the cost of goods and anything like beef.

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Yes, inflation, yeah. Yeah, like somebody went and cooked us dinner today.

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My family cooked my family dinner. And it was a Korean dinner, it was really good.

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And she said, I'm sorry, there's not more beef, but it was so expensive. Oh, yeah, it is.

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I was like, I understand, it's insane. Yeah, so. That's what happens when you drop trillions of dollars on any type of national populace.

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I mean. Yeah. I was wondering if you saw the little meme we made you of AOC's dress.

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Yeah, what'd you think about that? I did, the taxationist stuff. Yeah, yeah. So we wanted to see if you would comment on that because one of our listeners said, you know, are you for zero taxation?

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So we thought, hey, you know what, Marcus can answer that and let us know your thoughts. Yes. Yes, there you go, bro.

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Yes. Based on how the government does it now, yes. I think all taxation the American government does is theft.

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I think there's probably more biblical ways of taxation, but I would consider most taxation should be not by force, sort of like by option.

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Like you should have the choice of whether or not you want to give. So like, you know, just like volunteer fire departments, right?

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Those are volunteer based. Most of that is.

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And I think, you know, we have so much taxation, it just creates, you know, police states, it creates, you know, massive armed police officers that are going to be the ones to enforce the mask and vaccine mandates.

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So, you know, people say, well, what are we going to do about this? What are we going to do about that if we don't have taxes? And I think, you know, not having those things is, you know, probably the least of our concerns at the moment because we have so much of it.

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Yeah, because you're talking about such an infrastructural breakdown already that we're experiencing.

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But I guess that question would be when it comes to like fire trucks. Well, yeah. I mean, the roads aren't good anyway right now, right?

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Like, you know, the roads aren't good. Government itself is just not very beneficial at the moment.

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And so I feel like I always, you know, people always say, well, who will build the roads?

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And I always remember that Domino's Pizza did a campaign where they like went and like they filled in potholes to advertise like pizza insurance to guarantee that your pizza would be delivered without being destroyed.

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So they did this. Domino's did this advertising campaign where they paid someone to fill in some potholes in the road and then they spray painted the

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Domino's logo on it. And so it's like, see, the private industry can fix the roads. Like, they'll find ways, you know?

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And that wasn't even based on need. And they did it. That was just for pure advertising.

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So it's possible. I think there's a book called Who Will Build the Roads, and it's like 400 pages long.

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And it's talking about just all the benefits of privatized roads with like examples and stuff throughout history.

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So there's tons of information on that sort of stuff. But my concern really is, you know,

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I mean, you know, people say, well, what about, you know, Jesus in Romans 13, not Romans 13, but when

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Jesus was asked by the Pharisees, and Jesus said, render unto Caesar what is

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Caesar, and render unto God what is God. So people always forget the first part of that passage where it says the

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Pharisees came to Jesus looking to entrap him. And it's like, well, what was the trap?

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People don't ask, what was the trap? Because if paying taxes is no big deal, then that was a stupid question that the

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Pharisees asked. But it wasn't a stupid question. So the issue was that if you say don't pay taxes to Caesar, he can be charged with insurrection.

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But there's something there, there's a trap there too, if he says do pay taxes to Caesar. So there's a question we have to ask.

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It's like, why didn't he just answer the question, you know, like, what was the trap?

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And so I think the trap was because a few chapters later, I mean earlier, just right before that, he gives the parable of the vineyard workers, and he says in that to the

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Pharisees, he says, does the vineyard worker not have a right to do with his money as he wishes?

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And so then they come to him and say, well, now if it's his money, you know, do you have to pay taxes?

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And so he couldn't say no, and then he didn't want to, you know, reverse course on what he said about property ownership in that passage.

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So that's my thought on that. But it's also, he turned it into this whole thing about lordship, because the pence had a coin on it, the denarius, not a pence, but the denarius, and it had

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Caesar's face on it. And he looked at, you know, he asked whose image is on this coin.

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And so I think that was the real trap, because it said Caesar is Lord. And so when he said, give unto

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Caesar what is Caesar's, he was condemning and rebuking the Pharisees for handing

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Israel, for worshipping Caesar and not for worshipping the

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God of the Bible. So there's a lot in that text. It's not just like a simple thing as just, you know.

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Hey, that's great, man. I think that was a really good exegetical breakdown of that. And that's where we want to plant our feet on the certainty of good biblical exposition to come up with the answers that we're asking.

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So that was good. Just always ask, what's the trap? When the Pharisees come down and trap

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Jesus, and he gives some weird answer, you have to ask what the trap was.

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Why couldn't he just answer? He's not answering the question. He can't be answering the question normally, or else he wasn't in a trap.

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That's a good point. Well, thank you. I hope that blessed our listener. That was helpful.

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Hey, what if she gets her way, though? What if we just increase taxes on the rich? What if AOC gets her way?

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What's going to happen? Yeah. If we just increase taxes on the rich? By the way, her. Like what she wants to do, what her dress was asking to do, right?

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Her $30 ,000 dress. Did you guys hear that? I saw the article. I mean, you never know if it's like real news or fake news at this point, but the article said that the lady who designed the dress has $100 ,000 in back taxes.

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Yikes. So there you go. Yeah. I think that's what will happen if you keep taxing the rich.

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You won't be able to get those nice dresses anymore. All right. Hey, let's just move into kind of our main segment here, and that's really just kind of focusing in on you, dude.

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Yeah. You know that we love you. You used to be an apologian. You always have a place at our table over here, and we appreciate all the work, really the foundational work that you've done here.

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You continue to do, and it's great to just kind of go back and give us kind of your testimony of, you know, as much as you would like to say and can be as concise or as exhaustive as you'd like to make it, but kind of go back and we kind of want to hear how

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God saved you, you know, what kind of home you grew into and how God kind of developed your convictions and your passions to where you are now, what you're doing now and kind of how we can support you.

26:57

So I was brought up in a Christian home. I remember, you know, saying the sinner's prayer when

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I was like four years old and was baptized, you know, when I was, when

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I was really young and then I think I was genuinely saved then looking back, but there was this time when

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I started listening to like way the master and Paul Washer and I started doing street preaching.

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It's about 2004, 2006. And then, so I just started, you know, really getting into that sort of stuff and, you know, really kind of like the doctrines of grace really hit me pretty hard.

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And so, which, which made me think I was getting saved again, but looking back,

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I can go, no, I think I was, I was always from a young age saved, but I think that's when the theology really started to take hold and like change me.

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Or at least it actually had some application to it. And then, and so I would start doing street preaching and stuff.

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And that just street preaching is what really made me reformed. Cause you realize that no matter what you say, people just aren't going to care.

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And so got into video production when I was, I went to Liberty university for a short time to do major in youth ministry.

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And then that was expensive, but I got, during the summers

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I would go to a Bible camp and then as a counselor, and then the camp asked me one year to do video production.

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So I did. I didn't know how to, I just told him I could. And so I spent about a month or two, just trying to figure out how to do video production and, and stuff before I got to camp.

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And then I did video production. I was able to use that to get a job at a, at a government propaganda school channel, a school government propaganda propaganda channel.

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I didn't realize that at the time I wasn't reformed enough to be pro home school, but yeah, it was a propaganda channel for the school to see how great the school system was.

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So I'd make videos and news reports there and did that for about a year. And then somehow got connected with chocolate

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Knox. And then he invited me to come down and work at wretched.

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And I worked for wretched for like three weeks. It was just like way out of my league. I didn't know what

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I was doing. I wasn't that good at the time, but that caused me and David to be friends. We started making videos out and made the edified videos that, that you guys have probably seen like Gary DeMar and stuff like that.

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And that got the attention of Darren don't started hiring us to do work. And then and then

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I, I went to Apologia and then David goes to Moscow.

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And so that's sort of how a lot of, you know, I really do think it was me and David hanging out and making videos on the couch that led to, you know, what's happening with cross politic and what's happening with apology.

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It was like in those moments that that was being formed. If you look at the profidential kind of history of that, and we were talking about the enemy and nobody knew what that was.

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And now it's, you know, common conversation. So it's really kind of cool. So that's sort of how, you know,

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I was sort of really doing media, like really doing that sort of stuff. Of course, babies emerged here happened in between this and then and then that got

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Jeff's attention brought me to Apologia. And so there's just this really cool story of just this one moment that kind of built kind of what we've seen today.

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But, but yeah, so that, that happened to work Apologia for five years and then came up with this crazy idea for lore.

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And we, we decided to, you know, move to Moscow, Idaho. And, and that's sort of how lore got started.

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But it got started actually, because babies are still murdered here was banned from Amazon prime.

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So we had it on Amazon prime for a few months, had the big billboard and everything. And then that got pulled off Amazon prime unexpectedly.

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And you had so many good reviews on there too, I had those over 300 five -star reviews for babies are still murdered here.

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And then Amazon pulled it said they pulled it, you know, because of the reviews, which, which, which isn't that the reviews are bad.

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It's that, you know, I remember I took screenshots of it too. The reviews showed like it tagged keywords in the reviews for people to search and like pro -life was tagged and, you know, abortion was tagged and all these things were tagged.

31:30

So I think that's what it was based on the reviews. I think that's why they pulled it.

31:36

But, but that got me just thinking about the problems with Christians being unable to make films. And the, you know,

31:43

I said, well, first I was like, well, we need it. We need a Christian streaming platform, but then

31:49

I thought, well, that, that won't work because you need a lot of funding and, and Christians can't make movies because they don't really, they're not getting paid well to do that.

32:00

And also, you know, in between apology and babies are still murdered here at the sequel.

32:05

I worked for Pureflix for, I did some, for the ad agency that did

32:10

Pureflix's ads. So I got to really learn a lot about Christian film industry and stuff.

32:16

And, and so that's sort of how Laura's all part of that process of just figuring out the two problems for Christians to make movies was funding and distribution.

32:26

And I was like, well, what is a website that solves the problem of funding and distribution look like? And that became lore.

32:33

And so what we're doing is we're making a, a streaming platform that allows the monthly subscriber to be able to use their monthly subscription to fund the movies and TV shows that they want to see made.

32:48

So instead of like you giving your money to Netflix or Disney plus, and then they come, you know, they give you all this like homosexual pro -diversity sort of nonsense stories that you don't want to see, but they're using your monthly subscription to make you actually have power with your monthly subscription to be able to fund the movies that's going to be on the platform.

33:09

So you're not giving your money to you know, crazy liberal

33:14

Hollywood executives to make those decisions. You get to make those decisions for the content you want to see. That's, that's amazing.

33:21

So I got, I got some questions to ask you. So you talked a little bit about the practical side of why

33:27

Christians can't make movies, right? It's because of funding and distribution, right? But what is the, what is the mission statement of lore?

33:37

Can you, can you tell us? I think most people know about it. Yeah. The, the, our tagline is

33:43

Christian movies shouldn't suck. Okay. So that's the question is why do Christian movies suck? Yeah.

33:51

Well, I, I think one primarily, and I've talked about this probably a lot more detail on the sheologians episode

33:58

I just did, but it's really because they're made for women. A lot of Christian movies are made for women.

34:04

That's who they market to. That's who they cater to. And the reason for that was because you know, the, the, they had to sell movies when they weren't in the movie theater anymore because the

34:14

Christian movies only in the theater for like two or three weeks at most. So they had to realize,

34:19

Hey, you know, women shop at Lifeway Christian bookstores so let's just make movies for them.

34:26

And then they'll pick them up and buy them when they're not in the theaters anymore. And so that's how you get this, you know, soap opera sort of feel with a lot of your

34:34

Christian movies, especially Pureflex. I mean, it is so specific. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

34:39

So that, I mean, like it's on purpose. It's not by accident or because they don't know what they're doing.

34:44

It's very strategic in what they're doing. And, and, you know, they've made a lot of money doing it.

34:49

So, I mean, like, it's a great business decision, but it's not a decision that really frees up the artists or the, the creativity of, of, of, of filmmakers to really be able to make whatever it is that they want to make.

35:04

It's a very restrictive medium that they've made. It's and, and, and so that's why you, you get that sort of stuff.

35:12

And, and so, so what we're doing at lore is we're, we're allowing, you know, the filmmaker to be able to make whatever they want, you know, our, you know, we, we just, we, we, we tell them, you know, if you're a

35:24

Christian, you're going to make a good movie and we don't really care, you know, about when someone prays or doesn't pray.

35:32

If, if, if the bad guy becomes Christian at the end of the movie, or, you know, if the gospel is preached in it, like, that's not our focus because what we want to see as Christians just be good storytellers.

35:44

And we believe the Christian worldview is going to come out of that no matter what. And so, so that's sort of what, what we're trying, what we're trying to do.

35:53

Okay. So I can maybe I'll see if I understand what you're talking about. So you're saying Christian movies suck or they're have really low quality.

36:02

It's because Christians feel like they have to have components within the movie and because they need these certain components, it kind of restricts the creativity of it.

36:12

Right. They have to have like what we were talking about before. They have to have like the token, the bad guy becoming the good guy, the token evangelistic effort.

36:21

What do you think about Christian movies being evangelistic? Where do you see the good, possibly the upside on that or the downside?

36:29

Yeah, I think a Christian movie can be evangelistic. So, so I should,

36:35

I should start with that. I'm not saying that they can't be, I think they can, but I don't think they always have to be.

36:43

And what you have with the modern Christian film industry is a trap that has been placed for,

36:50

I believe for investors. So it's a good way to tell it.

36:56

You have a guy and he's like, I'm going to give you so many millions of dollars for a movie. But if it doesn't make money, don't worry about it.

37:03

Cause it's really about sharing the gospel, right? So you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you leave a sort of a loophole into responsibility to making money.

37:13

And then the other way they can get you is they tell the pastors, they say, this is an evangelistic movie.

37:19

So instead of judging the movie based on its merits, why don't you just buy out every seat in the movie theater and then give the tickets out for free to people in your church and have a big youth event or whatever, right?

37:31

Have the youth group go and invite all their friends. Not based on like, it's not letting the market decide if it's a good movie or not.

37:40

And so with lore, what we're doing is we're saying the creators can pitch to the audience and the audience can fund a movie for them to make.

37:49

And if they make the movie and it's terrible, the audience isn't going to fund them again. Right?

37:54

So there's that there's an actual consequence to making a bad movie on more than one channel.

38:00

There's a penalty and it's that people aren't going to fund you next. And so how does that work out practically?

38:06

So somebody has a subscription and then they like, there's some sort of way for them to allocate that money.

38:13

We haven't publicly disclosed how that looks practically, but there's a plan in place.

38:18

Okay. Nice. Yeah. I mean, I would say too, it's just that the, just as a consumer, the market is so saturated by just garbage media that there's not that many movies that you can turn on and watch with your family that don't have nudity, foul language, you know, some sort of a godless agenda in there.

38:39

And so, you know, you kind of are picking what you can get. And so some of the movies that my family have watched were like, well, what's better than watching something that's totally, you know, doesn't glorify

38:51

God. And so we've enjoyed some of the movies, even though, like you said, they're not, they're not the best. And so it's just, the pickings are slim right now.

38:58

So I'm excited about lore because we're actually going to have some content that we can watch that's of good quality.

39:04

You know what I mean? It's like, there's just so much garbage on the TV right now that I'm excited to see

39:11

Christians producing, not just content that's not, you know, not bad, not nudity, but like actually good, exciting, quality entertainment.

39:20

Yeah. I think, I think that's one of the things, you know, we're, we're going to do, we like to say we're going to be the

39:27

MTV of Christian media. We're going to be the art, the art house for Christian filmmakers. And, you know, it's not going to be movies just for women who shop at Lifeway.

39:37

Cause some of us women don't like some of us women actually like quality media too.

39:43

You know, we, not all of us just like crap soap opera type movies. So. Right. Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

39:49

And I think, you know, and you like to go, you like to watch movies that your husband likes to watch.

39:55

Right. And my kids. Yeah. Yeah. And your kids. Yeah. And, you know, and sometimes it's okay to watch a movie with your husband and not with your kids.

40:02

Or it's okay to have a movie just for the kids. Right. And, and my Christian bookstores understand this.

40:08

If you go to a Christian bookstore, you know, they have an adult section, a newlywed section, you know, an older couple section, a kid section.

40:15

And there's different kinds of books for different age groups and different kinds of people. Right. But the film industry says, no, no.

40:20

If they're five years old or 95 years old, they have to sit on the same couch and watch the same movie.

40:26

Sure. And that's just insanity. Nobody, nobody does that. But that's, that is the model of the

40:32

Christian film industry. And, one that we hope to disrupt pretty, pretty strongly.

40:38

Cool. Yeah. So, I mean, this is such a worthy and a monumental effort. And it's really exciting to see like all these constraints come up.

40:45

You know, we're going to have to take off Christian filmmakers to really make some quality stuff. But in your dreaming and praying, where are you seeing this?

40:52

Uh, in five years or maybe 10 years. Like what, what, what do you want to really see Lord do?

40:58

I think we want to become, uh, the next big, uh, global brand run by Christians.

41:05

Uh, it's just like a Hobby Lobby or Chick -fil -A. I think that's sort of our plan and our vision and our intention is, is to really do that.

41:13

Um, to really build a global Christian brand. you know, this goes back to the beer question about the reformed, you know, the reform stuff.

41:23

Right. And so I, I believe, um, you know, there's, there, there's not a, there's not a single person who looks up at God's handiwork of the sunset or sunrise and says, well, that's terrible.

41:35

Um, and, and so I believe the same can be true when a Christian makes a great movie, people are going to watch it, whether they're

41:42

Christians or not. I, you know, I think, you know, you have Chronicles and Narnia Lord of the Rings. Those are stories that are just, they're not evangelistic so much.

41:51

I mean, I mean, Chronicles Narnia more so than Lord of the Rings, but there's still both films and movies and stories based on a

41:59

Christian worldview. And they have giant followings and entire industries built around them.

42:06

I mean, Lord of the Rings, the, you know, the peripheral market for Lord of the Rings, just in merch and all this other stuff is, is, is, is insane.

42:15

Yeah. It's funny that you bring that up. We actually have been watching, we're starting my son's reading the Hobbit series, you know, going through the whole

42:22

Tolkien, um, you know, books. And so we just started watching the Hobbit and, you know, it's just, it's, it's incredible and it's just one of those classic movies and you know, it'll, it's timeless.

42:35

So anyways, I was actually thinking about that as we were watching it, because there's some, I know some people don't like the Hobbit ones, but the

42:40

Lord of the Rings. But I think when you're starting, you know, from the beginning, it's kind of cool to watch it from beginning to chronological.

42:47

But there was, we didn't realize that the third one, the third installment of the first book is rated

42:54

R, but we watched the whole thing and didn't even realize it, but it's because they're, it's just gruesome. You know, there's no

42:59

Fellowship of the Rings. No, the Hobbit. Yeah. It's like the desolation of smog.

43:04

That's the second one. It's the, what is the last, or the third one of the Hobbit? The desolation of smog.

43:10

Oh, the battle of the five armies. Yeah. That's what it was. Yeah. I didn't know that. That's weird. Yeah. What's that?

43:17

Oh, the extended cut. Thank you. Oh yeah. Gabe knows. That's Gabe the babe. Yeah. I guess we got the extended cut, but we're, we're pretty like, you know, strict about what our kids can watch.

43:26

And I'm like afterwards, I'm like, Oh my gosh, that was R. There was no cursing or anything like that, but it was all just like cherry donut, like goblins getting their head cut off and stuff.

43:37

okay. Just maybe one more little, let me, let me finish. Cause I think

43:42

I might've gone off on the tangent and didn't finish the question about the, why Christian movies shouldn't be evangelistic.

43:50

I mentioned the financial incentives, but also I want to mention that as, as a Christian, God has revealed his greatest artwork as general revelation, not special revelation.

44:04

And so all artwork is essentially a general revelation. There's only the

44:11

Bible that is special revelation. So if God has created the heavens and the earth and they don't save anybody, but they give knowledge of who

44:19

God is, then I think as Christians, we can create movies that, that don't save, but they give knowledge as to what

44:28

God requires and his law and those sort of things. And the liberals are really good about it.

44:33

Our chief content officer, Jason Farley talks about this way better than me, but I think it's important to mention is that the, that God, God never in, in all of scripture, he never just gives you his law.

44:46

He always encompasses the law through a story. Like Moses going up on the mountain and the burning bush.

44:52

And then, and then the tablets, like, that's all a story, but that's how we get the law through story.

44:58

When, when, when Israel is through, you know, they're wandering Egypt and, you know, we get the law and the building of the temple and all these sorts of things.

45:05

Like, that's how we get the story. Well, the liberals are really, really good at that. Liberals are really good about using story to impact the culture, to eventually get it to become a law.

45:16

Right. So they do this with homosexuality and gender identity and all these other things. And then before you know it, they're in there, they're in our movies for like the past 10 years.

45:25

And then next thing, you know, Congress passes law and we're like, well, how did that happen? Well, that's because Hollywood's been telling you the law through story for the past 10 years.

45:34

And then Christians, you know, abortion is a great way to mention this as well. When we talk about abortion, liberals always say, well, what about the woman who's been raped?

45:44

Right. Like it's always a story, you know, that kid is going to have to live this terrible life and suffer and, you know, only have one meal a day and have to be fed by government school meals all his life.

45:54

Like they always, they always tell this story to convince you that abortion is okay.

46:00

And conservative sort of argue facts that we, you know, we say, well, you know, you know, it has a heartbeat at this point or, you know, or, or we try to argue sort of law as facts.

46:14

And so what the liberals have sort of, they understand story. And so that's why

46:19

I think Christians just need to tell good stories and then they can influence culture and change hearts and minds over time with the preaching of the gospel added to it.

46:32

Right. So it's not just, you know, I'm just going to make this movie as a gospel track, but it's, it's a much more strategic,

46:40

I'll say the word propagandized, long -term play, the change of the world that we need to sort of, we need to sort of take in terms of dominion.

46:51

Yeah. And I think that's biblically faithful too, when it comes to the Bible's explanation of evangelism.

46:57

Right. Evangelism is simply going to the lost and, you know, we can make it so complex when we say we have to evangelize through the medium of, you know, filmmaking or, you know, we get so lost and reducing it and redefining it when we should just do what it says, go to the law, share the gospel with the people around you.

47:14

That's as simple as it is. But I think what you're saying is really Tolkien kind of captured what you're saying is because his movies were not intentionally allegorical.

47:23

Right. He even said that C .S. Lewis was, but Tolkien was telling a story and had incredible biblical truce and foundations of honor and sacrifice and love without it being so, you know, cheesy and cheesy or having some ulterior motive.

47:41

And he was a Christian man and it was incredible artwork and we just haven't seen much to rival that yet.

47:47

Right. So I'm excited to do this could be the beginning of so much beauty coming out of the film industry. If we could really, you know, get this thing going and not have to constrain it with these things that, you know, put, you know, constrain art and constrain beauty and constrain imagination when we have to tack on these unneeded elements like you've been talking about.

48:08

Right. And like, you know, we talked about in the beginning of the episode, we should be doing this for the glory of God, creating media.

48:14

Right. So Christians should be producing the best content. Right. Not, not just, you know, up to par with unbelievers, but like.

48:23

Yeah. And they should be paid well to produce the best content. Right. We should be superseding that because our minds are renewed.

48:29

We have the truth and beauty of Christ and we shouldn't be lazy. Laziness is a sin. So I think some of these things that you've talked about,

48:36

Marcus is just comes from laziness and just wanting to get a paycheck and not producing really good quality and work art, you know, that we could,

48:45

I don't think that's the artists. I don't think if I really don't, I've talked to artists a lot and I don't think it's the artists who don't want to work hard and make great stuff.

48:56

I think they're, they're, they're doing what they can with what they're being paid. Yeah. Well, that would, that would come back on like what the producers or, well, they're probably not getting paid.

49:07

it would, it would come back on the Hollywood industry who is just giving

49:13

Christian scraps. I mean, Sony just bought pure flicks recently. Right.

49:18

So, you know, they have tons of money, right. Tons. It's Sony.

49:25

They're the guys that do Spiderman. Right. So, I mean, they, they have, they have played, they do PlayStation five, but also fair warning now that, you know, the profits from Christian movies now, especially through pure flicks, have a potential to be funneled back into Sony's pockets where they could, you know, possibly fund, you know, homosexual movies that despise your values.

49:55

Right. So, so like that's, you know, that's a, a, a warning that I think we need to consider when, you know, the pagans own the

50:04

Christian industries, like that, that, that's a, that's a cause for concern.

50:11

And it's, you know, also, well, you know, a good question to ask, you know, what sort of filters are the pagans going to use when they determine what is and is not a

50:22

Christian movie that's acceptable. Right. I guess on their platform, I guess what I'm saying is like some of these screenplays that, that you, when you watch some of these movies and I've enjoyed some

50:32

Christian movies, like I said, when you're, when the pickings are slim, you know, and some, some of them are not that bad, but there are some where you're just like, who wrote this?

50:41

This is the worst. And the acting's horrible, but you're saying if they were paid better, it would be better.

50:46

There would be better quality. Is that right? Yeah, I think so. I think artists need to be treated like the artists that they are and they need to be paid according to their worth.

50:54

That's what the Bible says. Right. And so those sorts of things all matter. And I, I think there are tons of artists specifically in Hollywood, not necessarily the

51:05

Christian film industry, artists in Hollywood. And we've spoken to them that get paid really good money.

51:11

And they're really, really talented. But, but it's the Christians that just want charity from them.

51:18

Yeah. It's like, that's not right. Right. They're not, they're not doing charity. They're working for a living.

51:24

Yeah. And they're really good at what they do. And they demand a lot of money as they should be, because that's what it costs.

51:30

Like, that's what it costs. It's not like they're trying to, you know, become billionaires from their, their work.

51:37

And we're, we're talking about people in the industry. We're not, I'm not talking about, you know, the, you know, the, the guys that get, you know, that they get paid millions of dollars to act in a movie.

51:47

I'm talking about like the guys who do lighting, the guys who do modeling and, and, and computer animation, the stuff, the guys you never see, they, they still get paid pretty decently.

51:58

But it's nothing that the Christian industry would ever do. And so that's, that's sort of the thing we, we, we need to, it, it is loving our neighbor to pay employees, what they're valued at, what they're worth.

52:11

And you know, that's what we hope Laura is able to do it. And, and, and, and because the market, the subscribers will determine what that value is.

52:20

It'll be a fair value. It won't be overinflated based on union wages and stuff like that.

52:26

Right. It'll be what the audience is willing to pay for. That's how the economy works. Right. Right.

52:31

So, so that's sort of the way of saying, you know, maybe it doesn't take $125 million to make a movie.

52:40

Yeah. I mean, even if you're doing that, it'll decide that maybe, maybe made the market will decide we don't want to pay $125 million.

52:47

For a movie, you know, so those are the sort of things we'll see that I think they will.

52:53

Honestly, I really believe they will. I mean, I did, I did some acting when I was younger and have a little bit of experience in the area, but yeah,

53:01

I mean, I think you could even do a student film, right. But the story can still be amazing.

53:06

The actors can do great. But of course that the quality of that, that story, if you end up doing film is going to be much, much better if they have the funds to go behind it.

53:16

So I think what you're saying is we need to reform the film industry. Everything's been in the cool thing is everything's being reformed.

53:22

Look at apologetics being reformed. Look at the street preaching being reformed. Look at abortion ministry being reformed.

53:29

So it's pretty amazing. And here's just another Avenue. It's crazy. Cause you've been connected to a lot of that reformation,

53:34

Marcus, which is nuts. If you think about it, like you talk, you think about the providential history and how you played a part.

53:41

Okay. One more thing before we let you go, this is going a little bit long. So, Hey, matrix four is coming out.

53:46

Did you like the matrix series? I liked, I liked it. Pre -transition pre -transits.

53:53

Okay. I was going to ask you about that. So your, I got a question. So your favorite movie is probably made by an unbeliever, right?

54:01

Yeah, probably. Yeah. I would say so. Probably your favorite TV series. Do you know what your favorite

54:06

TV series is? Yeah. It's breaking bad, breaking bad. What about movie? And I know that's hard for you.

54:12

Uh, uh, I would honestly, I would say it's probably monsters incorporated. Oh yeah. I knew that already. Okay.

54:18

So Pixar movies, original Pixar movies. Yeah. So of course matrix number one blew us out of the water.

54:24

It was like 1999, I think. And we went in everybody's, everybody was just clowning on Keanu.

54:30

Right. I'd say, and look how crazy and stupid this movie is going to be. Then you go watch that movie and you're like, oh my gosh, this is exceptionally made, you know, just like when you saw brave heart and Forrest Gump for the first time,

54:42

Jurassic park, everybody was blown away. Um, and then I thought two and three were okay, but did they, of course they paled in comparison to the first one.

54:50

So we know the Wachowski brothers are genius and how they made the first matrix did pretty good job with two and three, but now they've transitioned.

54:58

Um, they're both self -professing women. Um, not really attractive. Are they both?

55:04

I don't think they're both. Yes. His older brother just came out, which is crazy. Um, so it's

55:09

Lana and I can't remember the first one. So they are both, uh, transition. So I had,

55:15

I had, I'm excited. It seems convenient. Yeah. Totally. It was crazy. Yeah. Um, but I remember

55:21

I saw you on the thread and we said, what do you, how do you, what do you think matrix four is going to be like? And you said, well, it can't be good.

55:27

So I just kind of want to hear your thoughts about that. I, I think you, you cannot separate the art from the mind of the creator of that art.

55:40

So I, I, I, I, I have not, I have not seen, uh, good.

55:48

Transgendered art. I've not seen. I, and they push it through on America's got talent. Like you'll watch it and there'll be some sort of drag queen and there's singing and it's not good.

56:00

And they push it through. They try to get through the final rounds, but it's just not, you know, it's not gonna, it's not gonna win.

56:05

Um, and I think, I think there is something to when someone's mind's been given over that I, I, I really do believe that there are consequences, um, and that affects everything they do.

56:19

And so I, you know, I, I'm not going to, um, hold my breath.

56:26

And I would say that if the movie is good and I hope it is, cause I like the matrix series, but if it is good,

56:32

I think the credit would be to, uh, the, the staff, uh, besides the director, um, you know, the

56:43

Christians and those, um, who are working on set, maybe, maybe not even like the

56:50

Christians, but just, you know, good hardworking artists whose minds haven't been, uh, given over yet.

56:57

So that, that's my theory, um, on that. I, I, I, and you know, so that's my theory.

57:04

Yeah. I think it's pretty principled. What I'm getting at and what I'm, why I'm excited about lore and to see what

57:10

God will do with it in the future is that we just kind of told one another, my, our favorite films are made by unbelievers, right?

57:17

Our favorite, favorite TV series are made by unbelievers. So we're in a place in history where our, our palates are, are kind of formulated to only like what unbelievers put out because the church is being so derelict in producing quality films that glorify

57:35

God unrestrained by things. So, isn't it awesome how our palates hopefully will change in the years to come through lore and, and other maybe

57:44

Christian production companies that don't suck, right? To where just think what can be built for him via the film industry, because we are acclimated to only really like what unbelievers are putting out.

57:56

But now when the chains have come off, Christian artists and they get paid what they need to get paid to make the quality films.

58:03

And I really think their philosophical outlook has to do with their art too. We won't even get into that, but that's why

58:09

I'm so excited about what God will do through that and how this reformational release, hopefully sweep through the film industry.

58:15

It's not a, you know, people I'm sure asking you, when's this going to happen? It's not a, an overnight fix.

58:21

You're talking reformation takes years. Yeah. Yeah. It takes time. Exactly. So it takes capital, right?

58:28

It takes money. So let's, let's get into that. Some people are asking on the thread, they're excited about it and they want to know how they can help and how they can support you.

58:35

So let them know how they can do that. Well, the first thing is there, there's three different categories of people that can help us.

58:41

The first one is people who just want to sign up and watch the moot, watch the stuff when it comes out.

58:47

So just go to Lord out TV right here, here, I think.

58:53

Yeah. Right here. Yeah. And so go there and then you can, you, you can sign up as a subscriber, submit your email.

59:02

We have t -shirts too. We have t -shirts and say, Christian movie shouldn't suck. You can, you can go there and get that, that, that, that that's, that's helpful.

59:09

The, but the main thing we'd like is your email so we can let you know about updates and what we're working on and when are we planning to launch?

59:15

If you're a content creator, an artist, you can go there and you can fill out the form there with sort of what you do, you know, what you do in the industry, some of the work you've done and any ideas or pitch decks you have for screenplays and stuff like that, or movies that you've already made that haven't been distributed somewhere.

59:33

You can, all that's available on the creator page. And then there's an investor sign up for an accredited investor with a minimum of $50 ,000 is what we're looking for for the, our initial round, which we're about to close out.

59:46

So that's exciting. We're maybe just maybe two investors away from that now from closing out our first round.

59:54

And so that's really exciting. And so once, once that happens we'll, we'll be able to really speed things up.

01:00:03

And, and, and, and so, so, so that that's really it right now. It's just a matter of building out the website and hiring developers.

01:00:11

And it's just, this is just how startups work and how startups operate one piece at a time until, you know, forever.

01:00:21

So, so, so exciting. man. Well, when do you think we're going to be able to watch something on Lord?

01:00:27

Do you know? Hopefully really soon. Awesome. Cool. Hey, would you do me a big favor,

01:00:32

Marcus? Yeah. Would you give your wife a big hug for me? I will. She is the best hugger.

01:00:38

I love her best. Yeah. Give her a big, big hug for me. And thank you for coming on the show, brother. We know you're busy and traveling and have so much going on.

01:00:46

Thanks for hanging out with us too. Yeah. Thank you. We love you. We'll talk to you soon. Okay. All right.

01:00:51

See you. Bye. Well, that was sweet. That was awesome. Yeah. Such a brilliant guy.

01:00:57

Yeah. I always like listening to him. Right. I know. I just feel like I could, I learned so much just from that, you know, just listening to him.

01:01:04

God's given him such a brilliant mind and, you know, we could have went into like babies are murdered here and street preaching.

01:01:11

And he has just been like a figure. Yeah. And like God using him to attach to other men to really start the reformation process.

01:01:18

Of course, really reforming apologetics in a more, more public way.

01:01:24

And of course he was attached to side too. So it's, it's amazing. I love that. He isn't, he isn't afraid to like ask the hard questions and really kind of poke at, you know,

01:01:35

Christendom and some of our preconceived, you know, thoughts and ideas, even about like Christian movies, really for me, like I really,

01:01:44

I've learned a lot just listening to him. And like I was kind of saying earlier, we just kind of get what we, what we have when the pickings are slim, you're just like, okay,

01:01:54

I'll watch this rather than some, some crap movie or something. And at least it's wholesome, but then you go like, but why, why can't we watch something that has good quality?

01:02:03

Why can't it be like Lord of the Rings or Hobbit quality? And still, well, I mean, there's nothing really bad in that, but you know what

01:02:09

I mean? Why can't it be to that level, but be Christian. Yeah. And that's why I have this tattoo.

01:02:15

Always be reforming. And so that's what reformers have done. That's what Martin Luther did when he, you know, tasks in 95 theses.

01:02:22

He just said, Hey, we can't do this stuff anymore. Let's not do it. And I mean, this is what, this is what

01:02:28

Marcus is saying with the film industry. Let's stop, let's stop this. Let's stop making these movies that are low quality.

01:02:34

I really don't give God glory that have ulterior motives attached to them. All reformers will do that.

01:02:39

They'll stand up and say, Hey, we have gotten so used to not doing this. The way that God has commanded us to let's reform things.

01:02:48

And that's where beauty and life flows out of those people taking that bold stance. And it can be very costly too, because people hate the messenger.

01:02:57

You know, they just, they don't like to change. They don't like the discomfort, but we always need to be reforming. So hopefully this episode was cool for you.

01:03:04

Thanks for everybody who have been talking on the live chat. We'll probably do this again. And hopefully get into some more crazy questions we can answer, but thank you so much for supporting provoked.

01:03:14

We hope it has been a blessing to you and your family. It gives God glory and helps you out really to just be a

01:03:20

Christian. Simple Christianity is obeying his commands. And we want to encourage people to preach the gospel, go rescue babies and defend the faith and do things beautiful for the glory of God and all that you do.

01:03:32

Yeah. Thank you guys. We just, we pray that Jesus would be glorified in, in these episodes. And we're so thankful for all of your feedback.

01:03:39

And we just ask that you would like subscribe, share, and help us get the word out. Thank you. See you guys.