May 30, 2022 Show with Josh Buice on “The Future of the Southern Baptist Convention (& An Analysis of the Abuse & Coverup Scandal)

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours.

And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions, and now here's your host Chris

Arnzen.

Good.

Afternoon.

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And the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth.

We're listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio.

Wishing you all a happy Memorial Day on this Monday May 30th 2022.

I'm so delighted that you who are listening are taking time out from

your Festivities and celebrations with your family friends and loved ones in order to listen to

this program today, and I'm especially Grateful that our guest has taken some time away from

his own Relaxing Memorial Day weekend with his family to be a part of this program.

I'm speaking of one of my favorite guests to interview on this program Josh Bice

who is pastor of Praise Mill Baptist Church of Douglasville, Georgia and Founder and

president of G3 ministries.

We're going to be discussing the future of the Southern Baptist Convention and analysis of the abuse

and cover -up scandal and will also be announcing the 2022 G3

regional conference and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron radio.

Josh Bice.

Good to be with you Chris and tell our listeners about Praise Mill Baptist Church of Douglasville, Georgia.

Praise Mill Baptist Church formed a Baptist Church on the west

side of my wife and I grew up to

pastor to church for the last 12 years, so that's a local

church and.

Anybody wants more information about that church.

Go to praise mill comm and that's p r a y s mill calm

and I hope that you if you live there near that church, you will certainly

visit and if you are going on vacation That you will visit and if you have family friends and loved ones in that

area that you will recommend that they visit and perhaps even join that fine congregation.

Also, tell us about G3 ministries.

Yeah, Chris.

G3 ministry

will theology

but in year 2020.

It was every

other

year we have regional conferences in the off year.

We also host Workshops on biblical preaching as well as

and you're having an exciting.

Regional conference coming up in Washington DC right near.

The.

Museum of the Bible.

I am so thrilled to be attending that myself and representing iron sharpens iron radio there and.

The theme I know is going to be just thinking about the Bible.

Tell us about this conference.

Yeah, Chris will have our national con

in Washington DC and it's also in September.

You can find out information on the website G3 men min .org.

But the conference itself is going

to be devoted to

the theme.

And I know you are going to be on the speaking roster and you will be joined by Stephen Lawson

one of my favorite preachers.

I think everybody who has ever heard him preach who is a Bible -believing Christian lists Stephen Lawson

as one of their favorite preachers.

My longtime dear friend going back to 1996 dr. James R. White of

Alpha Omega ministries and also the co -hosts of the just thinking

Podcast from where the the theme of the conference is coming from just

thinking about the Bible Daryl Bernard Harrison and Virgil Walker, so

Everyone who attends this I am sure will be thoroughly edified.

If you are a lover of God's Word and a disciple of Jesus Christ I believe you'll be

profoundly benefited by this conference and even if

You are not a Christian if our Christian listeners who are attending want to bring a non -christian

along. I think it would be very valuable for them perhaps even especially If you want

more details on this go to g3 min org.

G3 min org.

Well, we are talking about a very controversial theme today and one of the

reasons why there might be a level a certain level of

discomfort discussing this Is that you and I both have very dear

friends who are?

Really superb Christians and ministers of the gospel who

remain in leadership in some capacity with the Southern Baptist Convention.

We might perhaps desire that they eventually leave that

denomination if the denomination or Members of that denomination who are in the highest levels of leadership did not

repent but It is nonetheless a cause

for a Bit of discomfort.

I don't know if you feel as much of it as I do.

But I do have dear friends that I've even interviewed on this program.

In fact, you and I share a very close friendship with dr Tom Askell who is running for president of this

denomination and I I have the highest regard for Tom but if you want to state in your own

words As we begin this discussion Especially to

Clarify that we are not in any way trying to dis besmirch the reputations of good

solid Christians within that denomination.

Yeah, Chris,

that's a you know,

that's 47 that

make up the membership of the

they're preparing for the annual meeting

elect a new president and Really in many

ways

and

needs good leader

that needs

map and

it was

basically a

report.

That was sparked in 2019 that

this

convention

there's been a move and so

there's no

meeting

the messengers of the SBC Voted to

investigation in the

history of the SBC and it's

basically cost the the SBC

near many

different responses.

But but undoubtedly the response has been shocked at some of the names of the

within the SBC Conduct

on and on and on and find

to that chief

investigative report.

Yes.

It is a Christ King.

It's heart these cases

the article

that

I God

has ordained.

This will be something that we could flesh it

ordained civil.

We see

this

report.

Yes, it's

shocking.

But then now there are people who are suggesting that there needs to be a database or a registry if you

will that the SBC

monitors once

again

to a moment.

The convention is at a

juncture where that needs to happen either it will

go in now from

what you have described

the.

Sexual abuse within leadership of the Southern Baptist Convention runs the spectrum it

seems to me.

From the way you described it it includes a voluntary adultery on

both parties part and Also going all the way down to the most heinous

and grotesque of crimes the molesting of children.

Yes, that's right.

I mean you have and.

From what you know of all of these allegations Are there any that are proving to be false allegations?

At this point.

Well, there are yeah, there are actually I mean you have I mean It's not that we can prove that they're false I

mean the jury's still out on that the jewels like Johnny

Hunt for many years.

He's a former president of the Southern Baptist Convention and he was

intelligent of the North American Mission Board and yet

he Finds his name in this report but

an adultery or or at least an assault against a woman even if it didn't make it all the way to the

level of adultery and yet now he's written or stating that the findings of

this report or that The so

you're you're seeing different levels

somewhere, you know pushing back against

the accusations that various rocks

like this.

Once again, I think it's just in

the SPC.

So when you have churches that aren't practicing church discipline now there's a need

or you know at least from many people within the

They feel the tension for the need for and that's where you get this

Investigative report and then the push for a database and so on and so forth.

But I would argue and they're practicing biblical church discipline

then those cases that of it at whatever level or our crimes

against children or Assaults against women or even little

boys just

against the end.

So even if

a

church is

engaged in that

once

again

bring

about proper action.

Now.

Now is there some kind of a move to create some kind of denominational police

force.

Using that term allegorically.

I'm assuming that you see in the horizon.

Yeah, so since the

release

there have been all

sorts or even

Princeton's could be placed on this database,

but my whole point is is that and

Once that's opened it's going to be detrimental to the SPC for instance

his website.

Yesterday his name was found

a local news agency to see

if there were any Pastors in their local area that they could report on and sure enough They found the

name of a

specific

his local church

conduct.

And so

it

caused

of authority for civil authority and

then we need some database like this to be

Operative within the context of the SPC and I believe that the mechanisms that God has

created and established

now.

I'm assuming that there are a couple of issues here that are at the root of

This being such an astronomical problem amongst the Southern Baptist Convention.

First of all you and I are reformed Baptists.

We believe in church discipline.

But we also have to admit that even the most biblically faithful of churches who do

conduct church discipline Have found themselves

in the tragic situation where someone in leadership or members of the congregation

are involved in scandalous sins such as adultery Child molestation

and all of the spectrum of sins that we are discussing that seem to be

so prevalent in the Southern Baptist Convention.

But having said that you can exacerbate a situation highly

by not conducting church discipline and also being quick to restore

people To leadership who have been exposed for some of these most grievous

of sins.

That makes them in my opinion.

I'm assuming yours No longer candidates to be in leadership because of the scriptures

requirements of a man who is an overseer.

Being above reproach.

There are certain sins if a pastor has lost his temper on several

occasions or Has done something that you can find within the hearts

and lives of most human beings.

It wouldn't require necessarily the person being removed from office and being barred from office.

But obviously there are things that would make a person no longer above reproach not only within his own

congregation, but in the community so would that be a in your opinion the

root of some of this that.

The lack of church discipline that you've already mentioned and also the belief in the

restoration and even quick restoration of those found guilty of these

scandalous sins.

Yeah, yeah, I think that that that's again one of the problems that we see with this entire

scenario, right?

If you look at the Southern Baptist Convention as a whole.

The majority of the church is when you think about the

reality of the way members just bet you know who

has the or the best youth group or whatever it might be and.

They just send a letter.

It's a courtesy note stating We're just letting

you know

that did they have a

or leaving and joining another church?

That's 2 .3 miles down the race.

Lack of health.

Well, if he's this and then when he

goes away from the news gospel minute,

well Hopefully that church a little bit about

his and that sort of he's seeking to evade all of that.

Obviously, they're going to be the men that are going to be wolves that are going to try to evade that sort

of evaluating Pastors that

they should as well as members for that matter as they should.

Then biblical church looks

like this furthermore.

There is a database that's already available.

For crimes against children and sexual misconduct of that nature and it's it's held.

And so sure and it's the blueprint that God

gives.

Is that sufficient or do we need some?

Methodology.

Such as a database in.

The SBC now when you say that there are leaders who have been

accused of serious sexual misconduct sins.

Are you talking about people who are still in leadership in the denomination?

Are you talking about people who are pastors of local congregations and elders or Combination of

both.

What exactly are we talking about?

Yeah.

Yes, the combination of both.

I mean some of these individuals that are in this report have already been excused from their

positions knowing what was.

Others are pat you at this very moment as

as a bombshell which is one thing

in you know.

The denominator

investigative report on these matters.

Well, then that's a decision that the denomination can make but my pushback is

for the creation of a database a registry of you

and not a.

Denominational group, so basically you're saying There are

problems serious problems within the Southern Baptist Convention.

That lie on both opposite ends of the spectrum.

You're talking about those that want to respond in a very strict sense,

but in a misguided sense and.

Then you have those on the other end of the spectrum being a part of the whole problem of

nominal Christianity of perpetuating Congregations

filled with unregenerate people not obviously intentionally or

even perhaps consciously but having such a dumbed -down and watered -down

understanding of what regeneration really is and what the Christian faith really is that the

testimonies are accepted of.

People with inadequate evidence of true Repentant faith

inadequate fruit and even children who are being pushed

into baptism.

At young ages not because they are giving evidence of truly repenting and having genuine faith.

But because it's expected of them when they turn 12 or some age almost

mimicking Pato Baptist denominations.

Except for the the difference that you have an older child being baptized in both

scenarios.

You don't have real faith.

My somewhere in the right ballpark here.

Nominal Christianity at play.

You're also seeing Some forms of the social justice movement at play

here and that's one of the things I'm concerned about is that people Want to

engage in what we might call the me to movement or the church to movement and

Literally assassinate the character of individuals without proper knowledge of

What actually did happen again?

I think these have been given the

Investigating crime

in that

round and

against individuals within then bring about the proper

discipline which might actually result in Removing someone from an

office or denominational leadership at some level.

And so I'm just concerned that the SBC at this very crisis moment two weeks

away That's president in Anaheim, California.

To make a really good

decision and

embrace more pragmatism, which has been the Achilles heel if you will or the foundational

so many years.

We're gonna be going to our first break right now.

If you have a question for pastor Josh Bice on the Southern Baptist Convention since he is a

pastor We will broaden the spectrum of topics over which you will be permitted

to ask a question a pastoral question something about theology doctrine

the Bible but we are hoping to get a Significant number of

questions specifically on the Southern Baptist Convention in the crisis.

They are currently facing.

Please give us your first name at least your city and state and country of residence.

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter and obviously a subject like

today's topic Would lend itself to perhaps people who have personal and

private matters.

They want to ask about Submitting questions to us.

So obviously we will grant your request to remain anonymous.

But please if it's just a general question, give us your first name city and state and country of residence.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Josh Bice of Praise Middle Baptist Church of Douglasville, Georgia and g3 ministries.

Right after these messages from our sponsors.

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Welcome back.

If you just tuned us in our guest today for the entire program is Josh Bice

Pastor of Praise Mill Baptist Church in Douglasville, Georgia and founder and president of G3

ministries.

We are talking about an extremely controversial subject today.

But one that I think requires us to address especially

since many of our friends and colleagues in ministry are somehow affiliated with the Southern Baptist

Convention and that Theme is the future of the Southern Baptist Convention

an Analysis of the abuse and cover -up scandal.

If you have a question, our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chr is a r n z e n at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least your city and state and country of residence.

We have an anonymous listener who says a number of my friends in ministry Have not

long ago Brought their churches into the Southern Baptist Convention

that were formerly independent.

What is the draw for our churches to do this?

And is this something that you would recommend or warn against at this point in time?

Yeah, Chris, that's a great question.

I think some of the benefits of being a part of the SPC So if you're independent a

draw to be a part of the Southern Baptist Convention might include churches

for you know, the supply of missionaries or theological education.

Again, you know you have SPC seminaries and if you're

an SPC church of what a non SPC.

The need to

the idea of

just being a an independent

I would

disagree.

We just acted at the

Southern Baptist

Convention.

We as a local church are a part of the G3 church network.

There's a local churches to partner together but yet to be

Independent all time and yet

this convention it's a network

and it's not mutually exclusive.

So if you're a part of that network, you you can still be in the SPC as well but I believe

there's Genuine healthy relationships happening

in the for my local church with the SPC

anymore.

RJ in West District County, New York Asks how

recent in history did the crumble of the Southern Baptist Convention

Begin when it comes to the promotion of nominal Christianity that you mentioned before.

Where people are kept on membership rosters?

Perhaps for decades who have not even darkened the door of a particular church where they

are allegedly a member in Years and may also have a very Scandalous

life which remains undisciplined.

I know that the origins of the Southern Baptist Convention were thoroughly Calvinistic and Calvinist

churches are typically very much involved in church Discipline so when did this

fall come in regards to those issues?

Yeah, it's a good question.

If you look at the history of the SPC the founders of the SPC were largely

Calvinistic the convention itself with the step 45

but soon thereafter the convention started down a bumpy road and It would

it would eventually Have a full -on embrace.

Now, we know that.

Historically pragmatism is this idea or methodology that whatever works do it?

And so has been committed to in many

ways the Southern Baptist Convention price.

It prides itself on being the largest product of the nomination so to maintain

that size and to maintain the top -rung in the ladder

within evangelical denominations.

Then you have to may I employing pragmatism at various different

levels.

And so you can go back to like 1954 when you can see

Actually by the

Southern Baptist Convention that was titled

and the idea was that there would be a million more

members of the Southern Baptist Convention in the year 50.

Happens is that these churches

start doing things and they start creating program

and so and so.

Embraced wholeheartedly by the SPC for years and so it's been detrimental.

And so we find ourselves or at least the SPC does within evangelicalism today Finds

itself at a massive crisis moment and they must deal with this and the future of the convention is at

stake here.

Now, would you say that this downward slide?

Coincided with the the dominant

Membership of the Southern Baptist Convention Switching gradually over

the years from theologically reformed to.

Theologically Arminian.

Yeah that played a large role in it.

And then in recent years, you've been seeing the seminaries of the SPC that were largely established.

Much like you can look back to Harvard for instance.

And you can see these Institutions that were established for the training of men.

For the training of men for what?

Harvard obviously went off the rails and is gone completely and this happened many years ago.

The establishment of the Southern Baptist Convention,

you can see how they were established for the training of men.

Largely for ministry, but now in recent years these seminaries have been priding themselves

and publishing reports and they've been boasting in the number of women that they have enrolled and

Graduating from their ranks.

And even recently Danny Aiken the president of the Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary

Was seen on Twitter getting his picture made with a woman

and then

she even went on to tell us in seminary class.

Wow.

So this is this is detrimental to the to the convention as a whole and they must write the ship or it's

going to be completely gone.

Now currently even though this woman was

You degreed at a Southern Baptist Seminary.

And was given opportunities to preach in the class and so on.

Is it still not a rule?

Amongst every congregation in the denomination that prohibits women in ordained

leadership.

So actually it's not a rule.

It's you know, if you look at the Baptist faith and message the actual a for the

SBC.

That it's very loose language as it pertains to the office of pastor and so is

whether or not someone have

a woman who but yet she

remains an individual who's not

ordained officially for the office of issue.

And it's a battle for the dictionary in many ways because these.

These individuals will pride themselves on being quote unquote.

But they're functioning as if they're

they're no sort of opportunity that's it's

emerging within the context of the SBC and big Eva.

You're starting to see a lot of individuals who are

are starting to chart a new path for soft Complementarianism and that sort of thing.

So once again, this is pragmatism.

It leads it leads pragmatism as a foundation leads to other areas of

capitulation.

And that's what we're seeing with the way that the convention is approached.

Scandal other issues related to women

in ministry as well.

Now if you could explain the nickname that you just used.

Big Eva, it's a simple nickname for.

Evangelical circle.

Within those branches you'll have other mainstream mainline

denominations like the PCA or or even

a

lot

of Non -denominational.

You mentioned the PCA Presbyterian Church in America.

They are really going through very similar

Problems as the Southern Baptist Convention, it seems that they are hand -in -hand

in the same types of trials and downward slides that

Are existed in the southern combat Southern Baptist Convention or they're not.

Yeah, the PTA is in moment as well, and they're slugging it out presently

on issues related to Gay Christianity and social

justice and it gets way into all of the large Evangelical

denominations and that's without hesitation I know you and I

have talked about it.

Welcomed into the gates of these

through the gates has been unpacking its boxcars of Various different

and Ideologies and

a lot of people

are exiting these big denominations.

A lot of people are leaving the PCA a lot of people are leaving the Southern Baptist Convention.

So you mentioned this independent church that that's joining

the

Southern Baptist Convention and the numbers are

decreasing rapidly.

So once again, they're at a moment where they need to to really look

at this

fought a literal bloody war over Biblical inerrancy from

1979 all the way through the early 2000s.

But what tap although they pride that

they never have even entered the bat.

That's why we're seeing so many problems.

That's why they're embracing to the Bible for

biblical church membership the worship.

Well, we have to go to our midway break right

now.

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Thank them and also send in questions to Josh Bice on the

issue at hand on the Southern Baptist Convention the future of this convention and

the analysis of the scandals the predominantly sexual scandals and

abuse scandals and their cover -up.

And send them to Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least your city and state and country your residence.

We'll be right back right after these messages.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnzen of iron sharpens iron radio

and I Are heading to Washington DC for the G3 ministries regional conference on the theme

Just thinking about the Bible.

The conference will be held Thursday, September 15th through Saturday, September 17th.

I'll be speaking along with Stephen Lawson Josh Bice founder of G3 ministries and Daryl Bernard

Harrison and Virgil Walker co -hosts of the just thinking podcast.

To register visit g3min .org.

That's g3min .org and click on events.

Your registration will include a ticket to the Museum of the Bible nearby the conference venue in Washington DC.

So join me and Chris Arnzen September 15th through the 17th in Washington, DC to the G3

ministries regional conference.

Register now before they run out of seats at g3min .org.

That's g3min .org.

Stop by the iron sharpens iron radio exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnzen while you're there.

When iron sharpens iron radio first launched in 2005 the publishers of the New

American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.

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This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our Sovereign

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I always try to remind our listeners Please never give your own church where you are a member a good

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Never give that church less money in order to bless iron sharpens iron radio with a

financial gift.

In other words, don't curse your church financially by blessing us financially.

Also If you're really struggling to survive I don't want anyone plunging themselves into

further financial jeopardy because you have given a gift to iron sharpens iron radio.

Please wait until you are more financially stable and on your feet Financially before you send us a

gift.

Those two things are commands of God in Scripture providing for your church and family.

Providing for the radio show iron sharpens iron radio is obviously not a

command of Scripture but if you love the show and you are Thoroughly blessed financially

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Please share some of that money with us so that we can continue Broadcasting this program.

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not least if you are not a member of a Christ honoring Bible believing church No matter where on the planet

earth you live I may be able to help you find a church as I have done with many people in our audience spanning the

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Send me an email to Chris Arns and a gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line.

That's also the email address where you can send a question to Josh Bice and if you recall

we have a very Important theme here today the future of the Southern Baptist Convention an

analysis of the abuse and cover -up scandal we have

CJ and Lennonhurst, Long Island, New York who says I tuned in just as you were talking about the

fact that you are against a Database of those that are guilty

of sins involved in the scandal.

How do you then suggest that these people don't freely bounce from church to church?

Without any kind of pushback or red light going off.

Yeah, so talked about in the first hour.

Chris.

I'm all for holding individuals who have but I think

that this I think that that's

God's blueprint, you know.

If we read the scriptures we looked at God's Word we see the sufficient.

The question

becomes who's going to be in charge of Monitoring those databases, right?

You know are not at minded people in the history of

evangelicalism in charge of monitoring a database.

Their ministry in there in the rest of their life.

And in fact, that's that's an equally serious sin to the sins for which they are accused.

Yeah, it is.

And you know, you got to ask yourself an honest question.

Are the people who have been consistently Unwilling to and

get the Bible teaches us to you

know, hold one another accountably

monitor

at that.

I think that the honest answer to that is no.

We're not gonna.

I believe that this

and those databases

crimes against children.

But in the cases of individuals who have been you know

misconduct, I think that you go to the sphere of that local church and you deal with it in a

local level.

And if the Churches that make up the Southern Baptist Convention are willing to embrace biblical church

discipline then it's within those contacts

really

denominational leadership and.

We mentioned before that someone who is only those who

are qualified to be as elders of a church are to be above reproach and

that would basically be that they are known for

godly repentant lives and then they are not guilty of a scandalous sin

that a Church could not really recover from without still having a

Horrible blot on their reputation in the community in my somewhere in the ballpark of accurately

describing that.

Yes, so I believe should be disqualified

qualified from certain the

way that you approach it

I think it either rest in the sphere of civil authorities.

And I believe that 17 is that

all scripture is breathed out by God and it's profitable.

It's profitable for teaching for reproof for correction and for training in righteousness.

Really believe that.

Then we need to actually turn in the life of our

denominations and networks and local churches.

Now obviously Discipline involves a key goal.

A primary goal of discipline which is an act of love by the way is to restore a person

to good standing with the church and To be put back into a right

relationship with God so that they are not Living in rebellion against God.

But being restored to membership in good standing does not mean restored to leadership positions.

That's correct.

And it very well may be will may fall

in misconduct.

That would result in them being restored forgiven and embraced as a brother

back to the local church.

But they may need to step down from being pastor.

Or they may need to step down from being a professor or Maybe serving

in some sort.

You are right.

But once again, and it's healthy and it's good.

The Bible is sufficient to give us how we are to the steps if you will how we are to

engage in these various different scenarios that we face.

And the SBC once again is that this can

see of God's Word or Embrace pragmatism.

Persistently.

Embrace pragmatism for so long now would be a fantastic

opportunity to take now obviously.

There must be fear amongst many to take the steps of

Trying to transform the way they conduct Polity and

discipline because There are many massive

Southern Baptist congregations where a fear of A loss of

maybe even the majority of people in those places is at stake because those

leaders know Or at least are very confident that a vast number

Possibly even a majority are not even regenerate or they're not living like they are.

Because of the nominalism that is overtaken.

Not only the Southern Baptist Convention, but many churches in the Bible Belt have perpetuated

nominalism and have turned Christianity into something that is merely expected of

an American patriot and expected expected of a southerner.

You know that people will be called Christian just because they come from generations of Baptists

or Presbyterians or Conservative Methodists and Anglicans and

Pentecostals.

And this just perpetuates this.

For lack of a better term, sorry for the crass analogy, but the breeding of Christianity

when you

look at when

they You know,

and now they are that you

can find that g3min

.org where I'm pushing back against the way in which the SBC has approached

a convention I'm arguing for a move to

embrace sufficiency of scripture and to avoid more pragmatism.

Pragmatism kills but what I've been accused of is being insensitive or trying to

harbor individuals who You know are guilty of these various sins.

That's not at all the case.

I'm very much against people who said

women or Abused children and women I'm against them serving in any

leadership position, but my

question is

how far do

you want to go when it comes to Reformation?

Like I'm all for Reformation but but I'm not for the sort of middle -of -the -road and

procedures that I'm

very much to the

Bible to see how a church is a church and

if if a crime has been committed then You

immediately get the civil authorities involved.

You don't have to go and create some middle -of -the -road Database whereby you

you know malign the character and

how do you?

How do you speak to those brethren that you know who are in the Southern Baptist Convention?

when they look at this daunting task of transforming

that denomination biblically.

How daunting a task it is since even if you want to say half of the churches

And then at the nomination aren't following biblical principles When it comes to discipline and a

proper way to conduct church polity and other things.

How do you give them the encouragement that they can Press on

with a confidence that that God will bring about transformation just as he did with the Protestant Reformation.

Yeah, I mean Chris and I think herein lies

I was alongside Tom Askell and during

the Q &A when should we looked at me

like.

Recently left the Southern Baptist Convention.

But it was Tom Askell and I are

looking at things from two different

Baptist Convention and seeing the prophet

large network that it's the largest Protestant denomination.

That if we don't do such and they're going to

do back in the seminaries and all of that.

I'm looking at

it from

give

money to

continue to give

money to the

SBC.

So back in December made a unanimous decision to do that

led by the elders to fight

for reform.

I say go for it.

And I pray you know that the Lord blesses the work and the labor of your

hands

if he is

elected.

We an

uphill fight years

about genuine Reformation.

It's a massive up.

Askell is elected in two weeks that he will likely

not see

again.

The SBC

recovering from this I don't see a concern so for that

reason we're out by the way folks if you

want to hear.

Dr. Tom Askell's side of this.

I interviewed him recently on May 11th to be exact.

To discuss his candidacy for the Southern Baptist Convention president.

You can go to the Iron Trump and Zion radio archive where our

podcasts and past shows are.

Are present the links.

The audio links.

For those that's ASCOL is the Spelling of his last name you could type

that in the search engine and all of my interviews with dr. Tom Askell will appear.

Or you could just scroll down In the archive of the podcast past shows for May

11th, and you'll see dr. Askell's program.

And to really reiterate My guest today dr. Joss Bice, and I both

love and have a very high esteem for dr. Askell so we're not in any way

besmirching him or his reputation at all and.

I.

Pray for nothing, but the best for him and all he sets his hand to do.

We have Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania.

Who says I know that the United Methodist denomination? recently split with

the conservative members of That denomination forming a new group

called the global Methodists.

I have also heard on Chris's show that members of the PCA are

Fearing but expecting something similar to happen amongst them.

Have you heard the rumblings of that happening in the Southern Baptist Convention?

For a very long time that there would be a there

would be a.

And this fracture was predicted on the basis of

but interestingly enough

all beneath the banner of social,

you know ethnic.

What could potentially be a split in the SBC in the days to come

again?

It's just

of these.

It could was a long battle that could result in

reform as a result of us.

So it is very possible that that would be the case over the next 10 years or so.

And as Discomforting as that kind of thing may be

to people.

I mean just to split and to

lose members and to even have

Congregational splits as Tragic as they are.

That can be the road to preserving a more biblical unity amongst at least a portion of

that group.

Isn't it.

Sometimes we think of a split in a local church as being detrimental and it could be as a result of

sin or Capitulation or in that case,

you know in

the case

of

is

this the

concern

and mission

agencies?

That could be that could be problematic.

So in that case need to just

continue to fight it.

Amen and.

Tell us about what are the qualifications to be a part of the g3 network and

What does that actually mean.

I asked Tom the same question dr. Tom Askew recently.

A question involving the fact that Baptists historically

have clung tenaciously to the long -held belief and

A belief that is viewed by these Baptists as thoroughly biblical from

God's inerrant breathed out words that

Local congregations are Independent and autonomous and they have no higher

authority in them Than the inerrant Word of God and Christ himself.

There are no denominational hierarchies Where we would disagree with

our dear Presbyterian brethren where there are presbyteries and so on and

denominational figures outside of the local church, how does.

The.

G3 network of churches forgive me if I misspoke in the way that you phrased it, but

the the Association of churches that you are in the process of developing.

How does that maintain if at all?

The long -held cherished Baptist principle of autonomous and independent congregations.

Yeah, so the way that

the SPC is approaching this issue of creating databases and so on and so forth.

And I'm arguing that it's not the job of the SPC to do those things it's either the civil

authorities or the local church because of this long -held belief in The

congregations and so that the g3 church network

exists as a network not a denomination.

And we hold to

1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith as our

confessors say

led by men who are genuinely You know reformed and they're seeking reformation in their own local

church.

Their church may not have the 1689 as its official statement.

But the pastors who are leading that church

1689 will the

g3 church net

by name or

1689 it

keeps and leaning left.

Justice is is the statement on social

$100 annual dues and churches can give more and

we can more literature and we

can engage in more projects at the bar.

So low

that and so

we have monthly meetings

crediting.

We have fruitful conversations and we engage in Genuine

fellowship in the network then the

pastors in that network

can make an idea

process and

we've had an initial meeting

and we'll publish

that project within the g3 church network and other and

engage that project and They can

pray with

relocate to be a

part of this church

to engage in the g3 church Network and you can find the application at our website.

That's g3 men and we're going to our

final break.

It's going to be a lot more brief than the other breaks.

Please if you have a question send it at immediately because we're rapidly running out of time.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

We'll be back with Pastor Josh Bice right after these messages.

James White of Alpha and Omega ministries here excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnzen of iron sharpens iron radio

and I Are heading to Washington DC for the g3 ministries regional conference on the theme

Just thinking about the Bible.

The conference will be held Thursday, September 15th through Saturday, September 17th.

And I'll be speaking along with Stephen Lawson Josh Bice founder of g3 ministries and Daryl Bernard

Harrison and Virgil Walker co -hosts of the just thinking podcast.

To register visit g3 min org.

That's g3 min org and click on events.

Your registration will include a ticket to the Museum of the Bible nearby the conference venue in Washington DC.

So join me and Chris Arnzen September 15th through the 17th in Washington DC to the g3

ministries regional conference.

Register now before they run out of seats at g3 min org.

That's g3 min org.

Stop by the iron sharpens iron radio Exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnzen while you're there.

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That's nasbible .com to place your order.

I'm Dr. Tony Costa professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love Hope

Reformed Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher

McDowell.

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in

Coram who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the

Unfathomable riches of Christ in his Holy Word and to enthusiastically proclaim Christ

Jesus the King and his doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island and beyond.

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and Receive the blessing

of being showered by their love as I have.

For more information on Hope Reformed Baptist Church Go to hopereformedli .net.

That's hopereformedli .net or call 631

696 5711 that's 631 696.

5711.

Tell the folks at Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa

on.

Iron Sharpens

Iron.

As host of Iron Sharpens Iron radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

The church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church

in Flemington, New Jersey pastored by Alan Dunn.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshiped and how he

shall be represented in the world.

They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship

God in Spirit -and -truth.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a God -centered focus.

Reading preaching and hearing the Word of God singing psalms hymns and spiritual songs.

Baptism and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship.

Performed with faith joy and sobriety.

Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at

GCBCNJ .squarespace .com.

That's GCBCNJ .squarespace .com.

Or call them at 908 -996 -7654.

That's 908 -996 -7654.

Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron radio.

If you love Iron Sharpens Iron radio One of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is

by supporting our advertisers.

One such faithful advertiser who really believes in what Chris Arnton is doing is

Daniel P. Patafuco, serious injury lawyer and Christian apologist.

Dan is the president and founder of the Historical Bible Society.

Their mission?

To foster belief in the credibility of scripture as the written Word of God.

They go to various churches schools and institutions.

To publicly display a rare collection of biblical texts along with a fascinating

presentation by Mr. Patafuco.

Demonstrating the reliability of scripture.

To advance the cause of the gospel.

They created a beautiful perfect facsimile of the genealogy of Jesus Christ.

From the original engravings contained in a first edition 1611 King James Bible.

This 17th century hand engraved chart shows the family tree of Jesus Christ

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This book is complete with gorgeous full -size illustrations of Noah's Ark and the Tower of

Babel and an explanation of why the Genealogy of Jesus is so important for his claims

to the throne of the universe.

Originals of this work are in museums and nobody has ever made it accessible to the public

in a large book form before.

You can have your own copy of this 44 page genealogy book for a donation of $35

or more.

Visit historicalbiblesociety .org.

That's historicalbiblesociety .org.

Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air.

How do we know we picked the right Bible?

Why do we go to church on Sunday?

Parents if your kids have questions about God's Word and his creation They would love

to read our new reformed magazine called ignited by the word.

This magazine is packed full of devotionals Bible stories church history

poems Activities and more to encourage you and kids of all ages in their

walk with God.

Created by a team of teachers Ministers mothers fathers and more we know

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Order ignited by the word for your home today at ignited by the word org.

Learn more information and subscribe now at ignited by the word org and Receive your

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Attention all men in ministry leadership.

You're all invited to my friend Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio free pastors luncheon

Thursday September 22nd 11 a .m. To 2 p .m. At Church of the Living Christ in Loisville,

Pennsylvania.

Featuring me James White of Alpha Omega Ministries your keynote speaker.

Not only will you enjoy a wonderful time of fellowship with your colleagues in ministry over a delicious meal.

But you'll also receive dozens of free brand -new books.

Donated by Christian publishers all over the United States and the United Kingdom.

Personally selected by Chris Arnzen host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

So if you're a pastor an elder a deacon a parachurch leader or any other man in ministry leadership.

Please register for the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio free pastors luncheon today by calling

631 291 7002 631

291 7002 or by visiting Iron Sharpens Iron Radio dot -com.

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio dot -com.

This is James White of Alpha Omega Ministries hoping to see you Thursday, September 22nd 11 a

.m To 2 p .m. At Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania for Chris Arnzen's

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio free pastors luncheon.

And welcome back, this is Chris Arnzen and we have our final segment now with Pastor Josh

Bice of Praiseville Baptist Church in Douglasville, Georgia and founder of G3 Ministries.

We have another anonymous listener who says I am going to try to urge my pastor

and other pastors I know to investigate joining your G3

Ministry of Churches and I was wondering if you prohibit churches that

Adhere to the New Hampshire confession or the first London confession or

churches that are Calvinist but.

Dispensationalist.

A good question churches

do allow is

even if it's not our official doctrinal

stairs of this church

that you might have with specific articles and Then in that

application didn't allow for

and we do

recognize that you might have an issue with us and

I'd like you

to have.

Approximately two minutes to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today before we go off the

air.

Yeah, the main whether it's the Southern Baptist Convention

your local church or even your own personal family.

Is that the Bible is sufficient capable of directing

how we live.

How how we do life?

And so the very moment that we lose confidence in the sufficiency of Scripture we open the

gates to all sorts of capitulation.

And we have seen that in history of the Southern Baptist Convention.

And If you're listening to today's program and you're a part of the SBC I would urge you to

carefully consider if you're going to be voting in Anaheim, California.

That you would get behind Tom Aspel.

Vote for him to be the president and pray that he and others within that convention would lead the convention

to biblical reformation.

Praise God and Don't forget folks.

The g3 Regional conference is coming up September 15th through the 17th in

Washington DC.

The theme is just thinking about the Bible.

The Bible is sufficient is the Subtitle of that theme and the

speakers are my guest.

Dr. Josh Bice Dr. Stephen J. Lawson dr. James R

white and Daryl Bernard Harrison and Virgil Walker the co -hosts of the just thinking

podcast.

If you want to register for this conference Go to g3 or I'm sorry g3 men

org G3 M I n the abbreviation for ministry g3

min org and Register and please make sure that if you

do register You come by the iron sharpens iron radio exhibitors booth and say hello to me that will greatly

encourage me and I will love to meet as I always do not only listeners that I have

been aware of over the Number of years we've been doing this broadcast, but also meeting for the very first

time Brethren in Christ who have been blessed by the program whom whom I have never before

met that always fills me with a lot of joy and Also, if you

would like to be interviewed by me, we conduct on -site interviews at these events.

So I would love to meet you and interview you and hear from you about what might

be burdening your heart and mind.

Well, thanks again Pastor Josh for doing such a superb job today.

I look forward to your soon return to iron sharpens iron radio and Let me also remind our

listeners about your church website praise mill Calm praise mill calm and that's p r a

y s Mill calm.

I want to thank everybody who listened and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives That Jesus

Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.