April 8, 2022 Show with Dr. Joe Morecraft on “An Assessment of the Church in the 20th & 21st Century”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this 8th day

of April 2022.

And I am still shouting praises to the Lord Jesus Christ for the

wonderful event that he enabled me to pull off yesterday, and that

is the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio biannual pastor's luncheon.

It was just such an enormous success with nearly 100 men there, and it was so

much of a blessing to see so many of the Christian book publishers come through as they

normally do and provide 100 copies of each title I

selected from them.

So there were thousands of books there that the men received for free, in

addition to having a wonderful lunch provided by Perry County Cafe.

And Dan Buttafuoco, Daniel P. Buttafuoco, to be more formal, attorney at law

and founder and president of the Historical Bible Society, was my speaker, and he

just blew me away.

I have seen him do many presentations before, never have gotten bored by any of them, even though

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But he actually spoke with a different focus yesterday on

the need, the power, and the benefit of

apologetic evangelism.

And it was just such an extraordinary event.

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he also provided members of his congregation who are volunteers,

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And it was just an extraordinary blessing.

They were the ones blessing me and the men, and yet they were profusely and repeatedly thanking

me for allowing them to be the venue of this event.

And I will keep you updated on when the recording, the audio and video

of this event was recorded, and I will hopefully have that available to the public

soon.

It might even be available today, for all I know.

I know the Church of the Living Christ said that they were going to post it on their YouTube page, but I will keep you all updated

as I receive updates.

Thanks again to all of you who made yesterday's event possible.

I'm afraid of starting to list those who helped to make it possible in fear I'm going to forget someone,

so I think I better just be safe and say thank you to all of you who made the event possible.

I could never have done it without you, and you know who you are.

So, praise God, he is so good.

Today we have on the program someone who has been on my show so frequently.

Somebody actually recommended I change the name of my program to Iron Sharpens Dr. Joseph C. Moorecraft

III.

I have him on this program so frequently because I love him, and he's one of my favorite guests.

He's a brilliant man who has far deeper insights than I do

into all things theological, doctrinal, and historical, and

he is the pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia.

Today we are going to be addressing an assessment of the church in the 20th and 21st century, and

it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. Joseph C. Moorecraft III.

It's always a pleasure.

Why don't you explain or describe for our listeners who have not yet heard you.

Tell us something about Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia.

Well, Cumming,

Georgia inherited seven years ago.

Amen.

Well, I'm sure they view it as a great privilege and honor to be

sitting beneath your teaching, preaching, and shepherding.

And for those of you who want more information about this church, whether you live near Cumming, Georgia,

or passing through there, or have friends, family, and loved ones in or near there,

the website is heritagepresbyterianchurch .com, heritagepresbyterianchurch

.com.

And I know that one of your elders, Tim Renshaw, operates a website.

Could you tell us about that as well?

It is called comprehensivechristianity .com.

And in addition to that, I know that you have a multi -volume commentary

on the Westminster Larger Catechism.

Tell us about that as well.

Opinion on biblical Christianity.

I just want to read Dr. Joseph A. Piper's endorsement of this.

He is president of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Taylors, South

Carolina.

He's also been a guest on this program and has written a wonderful endorsement for Iron Shepherd's Iron Radio as well.

But Dr. Piper says about the eight -volume commentary on the

Larger Catechism by my guest, Dr. Moorcraft, which is titled Authentic

Christianity.

Dr. Piper says, Every Christian who is serious about the Reformed faith and the

Westminster standards should have and use this set.

It is much more than an exposition of the Larger Catechism.

It is a thoroughly researched work that utilizes biblical exegesis as well as

historical and systematic theology.

And that is quite a high bit of praise from someone of the very high

caliber of Dr. Joseph A. Piper, Jr.

Well, today we are going to be addressing an assessment of the church

in the 20th and 21st century.

It's hard to believe when I think about it that we are nearly a quarter of the way through

the 21st century.

I'm just amazed by that because I can remember thinking with awe that

when it was New Year's Eve 1999 that we were entering into a new century,

the year 2000, and it's already 2022, just three years away from being a quarter

of the 21st century.

It is hard to believe.

But, well, I will sit back, relax, and listen as you begin your

assessment of the church in the 20th and 21st century, obviously beginning with the 20th.

What were the highlights of the church and also the very low points of the church that you care

to bring up as a part of our discussion?

Yes, sir.

By the way, I still give away, whenever the timing is

appropriate, Pastor Thornwell's superb book,

Refuting the Authenticity of Roman Catholic Baptism.

I don't know if you agree with Pastor Thornwell on that, but I sure do, obviously.

And it's something that is a very rarely believed teaching

amongst Presbyterians these days.

Most Presbyterians accept Roman Catholic Baptism, but I don't know where you stand.

It was of the Old South.

Everybody ought to

have

the

gospel.

Everybody ought to have

theology.

Wow.

You

know,

it's

interesting,

I'm

fairly

certain

you're

aware

of

this,.

But there seems to be a move among some men who

appear to be theologically sound and confessional and Reformed

who are trying to rescue the reputation of BART that's going on these days.

Have you noticed that?

Yes, I have noticed that.

And it has

a

lot

to do...

Now, obviously, as a theonomist and Christian Reconstructionist, you are able to say, because there is

a slander that the entire movement of theonomy is

also allied with Christian Reconstructionism and theonomy because...

Oh, that the whole movement of theonomy is allied with feral vision, I mean.

And because there are many...

In fact, it might have even been the majority of those who launched

the federal vision movement that were theonomists, but it is certainly not something that should

identify the entire movement of men that would go under the umbrella of that label of theonomy.

In fact, can you pick up on the spirituality of the church that the movement known as

that right after our first break?

Because we have to go to our first break right now.

Sure.

And if anybody wants to join us with a question for Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III, our email address is

chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Joe Moorcraft after these messages from our sponsors.

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Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Invidio, and thanks for listening.

Welcome back.

If you just tuned us in, our guest today is Joseph C. Moorcraft III, pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church

in Cumming, Georgia.

He's also an author and has written an eight -volume commentary on the

Westminster Larger Catechism.

And we are discussing an assessment of the church in the 20th and 21st century.

Our email address is chrisarns .gmail .com.

If you have a question, please give us your first name, at least, your city and state, and country of residence if you live outside the

USA.

Right before the break, Dr. Moorcraft, you were beginning to describe a

spirituality of the church movement, I think is the way you phrased it.

And if you could tell us about when this arrived on the scene historically in the 20th century.

How could it be?

You're a post -millennialist.

There were some great things that happened in it.

That just reminded me of a joke that I will quickly tell.

There was a ministers' conference where ministers of

different denominations were speaking, and one of the ministers was in the Church of

Christ, which believes that immersion in water is required for the remission of

sins.

And so the men formulating the conference said to the Church of Christ minister, you cannot

preach on baptism.

So what we're going to do is we're going to give you a subject to preach so that we

will likely be in agreement with you for the most part.

So I want you to preach on, or we want you to preach on Genesis 1 .1.

So the Church of Christ minister got up to the podium when it was his turn.

He said, I've been assigned to preach on Genesis 1 .1, which reads, In the beginning, God created the

heavens and the earth.

And the earth, by the way, is about 80 % water, which brings me to my next subject.

Sorry for interrupting you, though.

Yes, sir.

You might call Christianity as it came to the 20th century a democratized version.

And that's in South Carolina?

No, well, it's a different story.

Because in the front, in the front of this Greek New Testament,

those two days, but William Charles Robinson stood for the faith.

And by the way, you could get them through one of our sponsors, cvbbs .com,

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

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The Banner of Truth is just a few minutes away from Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

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they sponsor the show.

Now, can I just interrupt you and ask you, obviously, you're not

an infallible prophet or anything, but do you have any idea or

opinion as to what made the church at large

such fertile ground to adopt such heresy at this stage from the late

19th century to the early 20th century?

It

was

already

been

brainwashed.

Columbia Theological Seminary founded in Columbia, South Carolina in the 19th century.

Now, I think it'd be wise for me to interject here before we go to our midway break.

There are dispensationalists and even, I would

say, pessimistic amillennialists.

I happen to be an amillennialist, but I'm an optimistic amillennialist, although I don't rule out being

convinced of postmillennialism.

But there are, as I said, dispensationalists and pessimistic amillennialists and

pessimistic historic premillennialists who will say, I don't understand this guy

Moorcraft.

He claims to be a postmillennialist, and we're saying right now, amen and amen

and amen about the slide downward of theology

in the church at large.

How can he possibly claim to be a postmillennialist?

And I'm assuming that you would agree with me.

It's because they don't even understand postmillennialism because they have a caricature of it.

They think that folks in your theological or eschatological camp believe

it's going to be just a progressively upward arrow as far as

history is concerned and going into the future.

There will be no dips into the depths of depravity and tyranny as far as

history goes.

It's just a straight upward leaning arrow or upward directed arrow, but that's not what postmillennialists believe for

the most part, is it?

In fact, we're going to have you pick up right there when we come back from our midway break, which we have to enter

into now.

And folks, please be patient because the midway break is longer than the other breaks because Grace Life Radio,

90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, which airs this program, in fact,

twice daily in a pre -recorded format in both morning drive and in the evening,

they are required by the FCC to localize Zion Sherpa and Zion Radio geographically to Lake City,

Florida, and they do so by airing their own public service announcements and other local things

to keep in compliance with the FCC.

While they do that, we air our globally heard commercials.

So please use this time wisely, not only write down questions for Dr. Moorcraft and send

them to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, but also write down as much of the

information as you can provided by as many of our advertisers as you can so that you can more

frequently and successfully respond to our advertisers.

And when you cannot purchase their products or use their services or visit their churches or

financially support their parachurch organizations, when you cannot do that, and we hope that you do do that as much as you

can, but when you cannot do that, at the very least, will you please just respond to our advertisers and

thank them for sponsoring Zion Sherpa and Zion Radio.

If indeed you love the show and you are grateful that there are some people and some companies and ministries

and churches that value this show so much that they want to support it

financially to keep it in existence.

If you're really grateful for that because you love the show, please thank our advertisers.

We could not exist without them.

And so thank them by using the contact information they provide and also send in your questions to Dr. Moorcraft to

chrisarnson at gmail .com.

We'll be right back after these messages.

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Also, if you are not a member of a Christ -honoring, theologically

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all the other things I said.

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And that also goes for your questions to Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III.

If you have a question, send it to chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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Dr. Moorcraft, right before the midway break, we were discussing

how these downward slides in the church regarding

its faithfulness throughout history, even when you go back further in the Dark

Ages and so on, when you have the Church of Rome wielding its sword

and the streets flowing red with rivers of blood through

the torture and execution of faithful Christians by Rome,

this does not in any way refute or negate or disprove post -millennialism,

right?

As a matter of fact.

Yeah, in fact, that would have been about the time when the resurgence of

Reformed Baptist belief arised on the scene, and churches that may have

been historically rooted in Calvinism but had abandoned those views for decades, if not

over a century, were returning to the Baptist roots of Calvinism.

And so that would have been about the same time.

That is exactly correct.

Wow.

Oh, I have spoke to George Calhoun, and I'll tell you about that in a minute.

Go ahead.

He was a dear friend of mine, and so he decided to start collecting tapes of

historic Reformed preachers.

Yeah, in fact, the funny thing that George Calhoun said to me years ago,

decades ago, when he asked me in his very deep

voice, I think he was living in Mississippi at the time, he said to me,

when he found out I was from New York at the time, he said, you people in New York

got it easy.

All you got to do is get people saved.

We got to get them lost, then get them saved.

That sounds like George Calhoun.

He had,

I've seen his

library,

the

Reformed

Faith, a man named Jay Green.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

In fact, Dr. Rush Dooney was a client of mine

on WMCA radio.

He sponsored a portion of the Voice of Sovereign Grace for a while.

That was a program that I developed where every night of the week, Monday through Friday,

a different pastor had his sermon broadcast, and

R .J. Rush Dooney sponsored one of those nights, and instead of a sermon, he was interviewed

on various subjects on the program.

So I remember Brother Rush Dooney well, and I'm glad you brought him on.

I can, every

month, call the Calcedon Report.

I subscribe to that.

That's no longer in existence?

I'm not.

The memographs are gone.

But from that,

he's published sanctification.

You know, I used to mail him books that I enjoyed reading, and he did a

positive book review in the Calcedon Report on almost every single book I ever

mailed him.

He has put...

Yeah, there's a time and a place for those different approaches, too.

Oh, that's true.

Because I know that you're not downgrading or insulting Spurgeon for his morning and evening.

Not in any way, shape, or form.

I love Spurgeon.

But I

will say,

if I'm able

to understand

how much

it is like...

Yeah, if you're just so -called conservative, there are

many people who claim to be fiscally and politically conservative, on Fox

News, for instance, who are open homosexuals.

Not only that, but now Fox News has a transgender person.

Yes.

I

think

it's...

You reminded me that I've got to get George Grant back on my show.

He's been a guest here, and he's written a wonderful endorsement for my program, and I've got to get him back.

Yes, sir.

You've got nine or ten weeks.

We've

been

talking

about

not many noble...

Now, let me just interrupt you for a moment so I could take at least a couple of the

listener questions before we continue with your words of wisdom

on history and the church.

We have Ronald in eastern Suffolk County, Long Island.

And Ronald says, I know that there was a rift for quite a

long time between R .J. Rushdooney and his son -in -law, Gary North.

Was this a theological rift, or was it over personal matters?

Oh, praise God, because I didn't even know that.

I did know that...

Nobody does, Gary North.

No, praise God.

R .J. Rushdooney was dying.

Oh, that is great, because I do know...

In fact, I think it was the Chalcedon Report, or it may have even been your magazine,

the Council of Chalcedon.

I can't remember which one it was, but I read a glowing obituary by Gary North for his

father -in -law.

Well, praise God for that.

We have another listener.

We have Christopher in Amityville, Long Island, New York.

It's where I was born and raised, where I lived before I moved to Pennsylvania.

Christopher asks, I have heard some very stern

rebukes towards those that favor the theology of Gordon Clark.

These rebukes have typically come from those who favor

Cornelius Van Till.

What was that dispute over, and would you still recommend Gordon Clark in spite of

any differences you may have had with him?

Well,

even

good

guys

who

love

each

other...

Well, we're going to go to our final break.

It's going to be a lot more brief than any of the breaks, and we'll have Dr. Morecraft continue with his

assessment of the church in the 20th and 21st century.

I have a feeling this is going to be another one that goes into multiple parts, but if you have a

question, send it in now because we're rapidly running out of time.

Send it to chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back.

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Dr. Moorecraft, if you could pick up where you left off and give us some of the highlights, whether they are

positive or negative, from the assessment of the church in the 20th and 21st century.

There was another great instrument of God in brief, and

that

was

the

formation

of

the

Presbyterian

Church.

That's where Dr. Piper is.

Yeah, that's where Jerry Piper is.

It's the one seminary I can recommend.

One of my pastors, actually, even though he's a Reformed Baptist, John Miller, had a part of his seminary

education there.

And in fact, when he was there, he was the only Baptist in the student body.

I met a young man in the ministry.

Yeah, I've interviewed him at your recommendation.

He's translating my books.

Praise God.

Amen.

I want to throw in somebody who has become a hero of mine because of

the direct effect something that he

established had on my life personally.

As you may remember, due to my falling into, or should I say

diving face forward into the sin

of drunkenness years ago, over a decade ago, after having been

sober for 18 years, I admitted myself into a Christian

rehabilitation and recovery ministry in Boone, North Carolina called Hebron Colony Ministries.

I know it, it's good.

Yes, and that was founded by the Reverend E .A. Dillard, who was

a Southern Presbyterian pastor in Charlotte, North Carolina.

And when the liberalism had gotten so bad, he

urged his congregation to leave the Southern Presbyterian Church with him so that they could start a

new congregation and the vast majority refused to follow him.

So that is the reason, this is where you have Romans 8, 28 coming into play where something

horrible like that happened.

The good thing is that he moved to Boone, North Carolina and as he witnessed

American GIs returning home from World War II, drunkards, he is the one that established

Hebron Colony Ministries in Boone.

And I thank God for that ministry because it is God using that ministry that I

think I'm alive right now.

Amen.

And one other thing while we have time, another great...

Oh yeah, I interviewed him too.

Amen.

We have a friend of yours, Gary Wagner, who is the pastor of Reformed Heritage

Church in Los Gatos, California, who has a question.

I would like to ask Joe how he...

I'm sorry?

I'm about to beat me straight.

Amen.

I would like to ask Joe what he thinks about Two Kingdom theology and how it has affected the Reformed

Church.

Two Kingdom theology.

Oh, oh, oh, Two Kingdom.

Yeah, that is terrible.

It is...

Seminary used to be a great seminary.

Mentioned Machen one of my old...

Well, thank you, Gary.

And I want to give Gary's website for his church,

which, as I said before, is Reformed Heritage Church in Los Gatos, California.

It's reformedheritage .org, reformedheritage .org.

Well, we are out of time, Dr. Moorcraft, and I would like to enter into part two of your assessment on

the 20th and 21st century next time.

And in fact, we left out, due to lack of time, I'm sure, J. Gresham Machen

and the foundation of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church and Westminster Theological

Seminary in Philadelphia and other things.

But if I could, I would like to announce to you folks, again, the

website for Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia.

It's heritagepresbyterianchurch .com, heritagepresbyterianchurch .com.

And also, look for Tim Renshaw's website, who is an elder of Heritage

Presbyterian Church, comprehensivechristianity .com, comprehensivechristianity

.com.

And let's not forget, westminstercommentary .com,

westminstercommentary .com.

I want to thank you so much, Dr. Moorcraft, for, as always, doing such a superb job as my guest today.

I want to thank everybody who listened, especially those who took the time to write.

Sorry about those who we did not have time to read your questions on the air.

Perhaps when Dr. Moorcraft returns, we can have your questions read.

I hope you all have a very safe, happy, healthy, and joyful, and

Christ -honoring weekend and Lord's Day.

And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior

than you are a sinner.