Debate Aftershow 4-22-2022, Trinity Slick Otis

Aftershow Banter and Setting Up the Live Stream

So we're live and I have to do something here go talk to my wife briefly and Giving time for people to come into the room while I walk away from the camera, but I have a portable Bluetooth headset so I can talk while I'm walking.

So, you know that something's not wrong. So hold one thing. Let's see and Let her know we have a guest coming over and he's at another Location. He's gonna come over here later. Let's let my wife know that so that's why I'm talking.

And when I get back up, I'll let you guys into stream yard and those of you on YouTube can You can text and stuff like that. He's at a friend's house in Napa believe it or not. And so he'll come over later when we text and stuff like that doing an after-show.

Okay. All right. All right. I'm gonna walk back to The office where the computer is and my monitors and chair and everything else. Oh. There's a lot going on a lot going on. All right, am I talking to nobody?

I don't know. We'll find out what I sit down. Let's see. Yep talking to nobody. So, oh people are watching and listening good you can hear all right you guys want to come in. You can that's the stream yard link.

That means if you come in here, I'll let you in you can talk Interact or if you don't want to do that all you got to do is type something in and where you were we can you know, I can react to that if people come in and we talk we stay for a while they don't come in and talk then I go do something like eat and my wife and I can go watch TV and Relax a little bit before company comes over we Nobody I said nobody was here.

Oh, I was talking to nobody. So hopeful somebody's named nobody there. So, there you go, what do you guys think would you guys think of the debate? Alright, there's Oh Brittany you can't get in because their devices are not connected.

You'd be able to have you need a microphone and or a camera. So if you have either one you can get in. But to hear you you need a microphone. So you're trying to get in it says devices not connected So you have to add those in and then you can you can talk and then we have James dare I dare you to say something good.

But maybe his camera so I.

The Trinity in Genesis and the Whole Bible

Caught the tail end of your debate. I thought you did. Well, it's the whole thing but. It's obvious from the Bible the Trinity starts out in Genesis and goes all the way through the end.

Yeah, I don't. Can you hear me? Yeah, I can hear you. Yeah, the Trinity's definitely true. Absolutely.

Yeah, I enjoy talking about these major Bible doctrines. I Think that if you have the right Bible, and I know this isn't about Manuscript evidence, but I think if you have the right Bible, you'll have the right doctrine.

I.

Agree. Well, it helps. Yeah, it does help. Okay. Hold on one sec. I gotta put you on mute. This is the guys coming over. So I'm gonna mute just give us a. Okay, sorry about that. He'll be here in five minutes.

I may have to go say hey, come on up here. You hear me talking to it comes up. They'll sit in the chair right over there. So First Corinthians 214 you must be born again because of first Corinthians 214, right?

All right, Brittany. You need to add a Microphone or a camera in order to get in and be able to let you in. So don't know if you can hear me Matt. Can you please debate Trenthorne and baptism? Yes, that's right.

I would like to you must be born again. That's actually John 3 3 through 8. Lots of noise from your guests tapping. Yes. That's another thing people a lot of times people what they'll do is they'll come in.

They start making noises. Sometimes I do the radio people on their phones in the kitchen playing. I go. Hey, don't do that. So For example, yeah, I'm gonna mute you there. So now you have to unmute yourself in order to talk or do I have to unmute you like it wait.

Yeah, I can't unmute your guests because they chose to mute themselves, okay, there we go, there we go, that's right.

I think we were tagging back and forth. I'm new. Hey, hey, I'm new to this stuff. So if I make some mistakes like typing with my thing not muted just say stop typing.

Know this already I I'm autistic and I have trouble with too much sound and so when I'm talking to somebody And there sounds like the sound of background. It's actually disturbing but for the most part I can control it so I can handle it.

But when it gets too much I say to people I'm done. You know and my apologies. It's just just just what I've got, you know, just an issue to deal with. So great job. Matt on SF teased and it for the Oh truth.

Good.

Yeah, I Brittany mentioned that no one seemed to mention the Godhead which Godhead speaks of the Trinity. I Came in late, so I don't know if it was mentioned.

Closest to not there's a lot that wasn't mentioned. That's just a nature debate. You can't get through everything. There's a lot of stuff. I would like to have discussed. But we couldn't get into it. So there we go Karen.

There Karen says. That's what I like to hear. Great job. There you go. Love your hair Karen. Oh my wife to do that with her hair. All right. Let's see. How about. Like to see you have another discussion with Bishop Jerry Hayes.

I really enjoyed the discussion between you two. Learned a lot. Good animal lover. Are you oneness or Trinitarian? Good debate. Laura says he couldn't get past Jesus was not a man. That was weird. That was weird that threw me What.

I Wasn't expecting that. I gotta get into this a little bit more. Did he say Jesus was not a man? Yeah.

Yeah Yeah, how. How does he explain the verse and the word became flesh and dwelt among us?

Oh, that's the father who inhabited the human body. It's zombie is. Or it's like possession. I don't get it. Yeah, and then when he said he's not really human wait a minute how could Jesus speak, you know.

And and is it is he the flesh speaking? Is he breathing? Yeah, but that's not the will right? But yeah, Jesus says we will come and make our abode with you. How does that work?

You know. Well, Jesus. Jesus said I hunger. He said I thirst. He was weary from a journey. That was the flesh.

The father was in dwelling. That's why that was like that. There's some background noise. It's tough to. It's like scraping. I'm not typing. Not me this time. Let's see, I'm listening. I Heard a noise of squeak.

Okay, maybe because sometimes people they'll take their phone. They rub it on their Beard or their chin or like that and make noises too. Okay, let's get to Nicholas. Hey Nicholas, how you doing, buddy?

Hello. You're good. No man's good. Romans 3 10 11 and 12,. I'm sorry you asked me how I'm doing. I'm doing well, okay. All right. So, did you watch a debate. I Saw the latter half of it. Okay, and I've seen Otis debate before the topic.

I've seen you debate the topic before.

Yeah, so nothing new really. But had you heard him say before that Jesus was not a man.

No, and I don't remember if I've heard him say before that Christ is merely flesh. But it occurred to me that the flesh profits nothing. So then he's saying Christ profits nothing.

That's a quote from Christ himself. We kind of thought of that. That's a bit great to throw in there. Good for you. So answer that I like that that's good.

I guess I made that a question. Maybe Donnie you would have asked that one if I had asked it. You should have that. That's a good question. As a refutation in side chat. But I did ask a question that I can ask you now and that was I was gonna ask you on.

Is that the strangest? Argumentation you've ever had to adapt your arguments to. Or yes. Yes. When he said Jesus was not a man like. What?

Because then you got to define humanity and then you got to get it. But then I go to first Timothy 2 5 where it says the man Christ Jesus. Well, it says says Christ but ignores the word. Jesus is right there so it was just He did not have as all his logic and theological pause in the litter box.

Do you know which Bible he uses? I think he quoted the ESV. I remember I was checking it. Looked like an ESV quote. Yeah, that's Kevin's. Hey, Kevin. Hey, Matt, how you doing? Good. All right, hanging in there.

Just did a debate. I may have to walk down and let a guy in and say come on up here and sit, you know, let me talk so a little bit rather put the speaker I Said of here. We're on the on the computer. I hope you'll get any feedback.

Yeah. Oh is SFT in here. Oh Yeah, they're there. Yes, I think for truth. Good.

So that I actually want to ask you. Sure. So I'm a humanitarian as well. You're a what? I'm also a Trinitarian. Okay. Now when you were you were when you were talking about the will of the Father in the will of the Son.

I don't fully understand that like I. Always thought they were in unity in their wills. Like are you saying a different will you explain that?

Yeah, no just so you know when I begin to explain this there is a bit of mystery some people will say oh the mystery means it's not true, but that's not the truth. A Mystery means that there are certain aspects of God's nature and essence that we can't comprehend.

When we talk about the incarnation what we're talking about is a Human nature and a divine nature. We know that the word became flesh and adult among us John 1 14. And so we call this the hypostatic union.

What this means is that Jesus has two natures a divine nature a Human nature right, but if he's human he has to have human will. Otherwise, you're not human. That's what designates humanity. This is why when he said Jesus is not a man then there's no humanity there.

Then we get into the heaven got into it, but the problem of the in car of the crucifixion. Anyway, we'll get into that. So so Jesus has a will of the of the human nature and a will the divine nature. The Greek word for will is phileo to will phileo, so die means to die philatism.

Phileo will die philatism two wills means that in the one person of Christ There are two natures and each nature has a will hence die philatism. There's an error that was developed called monophysitism.

Which says that the divine nature and the human nature became a new third thing the divine man. I've never heard of that. It's called mono mono philatism monophysitism and along with monophysitism is Monothelitism that since the two natures became a new nature the God man nature.

Then there's one will so what they're trying to do is try and solve the problem of or that the paradox we should say it's not a problem of How can you have one person with two natures? Now the Lutherans go into it with thing called perichoresis with the two natures and dwelling each other.

I don't know, but that's another thing and so with a reformed perspective as I'm reformed We would say that the diathletism is that each will has a or each nature has a will but yet in the one person of Christ We only have one will and That's demonstrated by Jesus saying I am thirsty.

I Will be with you always even to the end of the earth. The eye is identification of one. I Not we our wills because he does that with the father. We will come not my will but your will etc. So what we see in the hypothetic Union Is the two natures of Christ and each has a will.

Diathletism. Manifested as one will. Hypothetic Union. When we see Jesus say I am thirsty. I'll be with you always that's called the communicative idiom atom. It's called the communication of the properties.

So the properties of the divine nature and the properties of the human nature are ascribed to the single person. So Jesus says I am thirsty that's claiming the attributes of humanity. I will be with you always that's claiming the attributes of divinity.

The single person says I Am thirsty I'll be with you always the same person I Says both of those. So the person the one person is claiming the attributes of both natures now when he says I Don't want to do this or I that we see the manifestation of the one will.

And so this is a paradox. It's a mystery. How does that work? I Don't know. How is it that God can ordain all things from all eternity? I? Don't know. How is it that he can indwells all places at all time, but yet specially indwell certain individuals.

I don't know. Just because we have mystery the nature of God does not mean that it's not true. If someone wants to say it's not true They have to be able to demonstrate that it violates coherence or violates the laws of logic and say this can't be because of this.

So for example a square can also cannot also be not a square at the same time in the same sense in the same way. That's a violation of law of logic and it cannot be true, but there's nothing in logic that any laws or any Syllogistic learning thing whatever that says that you can't have one person with two natures where the Attributes are ascribed to the one person who speaks as one person.

It may be mysterious, but it doesn't mean it's not true. So when someone says it can't be true I say show me the logic. You say oh, I'm not gonna do philosophy. Well, then you can't have any argument.

It's not an issue of philosophy. It's an issue of logic. Show me the argument. Just saying it's not true doesn't work. So these things have been wrestled with for centuries. So we have hypothetic Union one person two natures.

Monophysitism one person with one nature. That's the new god-man who is neither God nor man. But a god-man we have the storing ism in at the body of Christ are two separate natures two separate persons.

Where each nature is a person that's called Nestorian ism. So sinism says there was an emptying and there was only the father manifested and gets mother stuff is what she was kind of going. At so there's this all kinds of heresies and errors and and and stuff.

So I've never heard about no, that's all. Yeah, that's what it is. Okay, and there's a lot of stuff.

Um, do you have any teaching that kind of stuff like on your channel where you go into depth on those things?

Do I have any teachings on that? Have you ever heard of this website called karma. Yeah, yeah, okay, so you can go there and so what I'm going to be doing is is I'm just thinking out loud here. I'm gonna be doing some video work.

I'm trying to get to that point where I can start converting a lot of things to To video where I will sit with my articles and I'll read them But comment and go through them and I'll highlight things because I can't do I don't have anybody to do post Editing work.

I do everything myself. So, you know, I'm gonna try and do it that way and go through and explain things so that people can listen to audios. And as well, I think that'd be really good like appreciate that.

Yeah. Yeah, it's got the lighting, right? And because of someone who looks like me you have a face for radio, so I got to make it look good.

Okay, and I have something I want to bring up but also looks like there's someone named James who's being patient.

Who asked he wants to ask something. Sure. Yeah, if you don't mind.

It's it's back a little ways in the discussion about the human nature of Jesus and Otis saying That Jesus wasn't flesh or something like that. The doctrine of substitution Hangs in the balance if he was not flesh.

Because he had to become one of us in order to pay for our sin somebody had to step in.

Our redemption hangs on that. So you can't remove the man of Christ. That's right. It's a whole other issue. I thought you know how far we get to get into stuff because then you don't have a true incarnation and then you don't have a true divine sacrifice because.

What he would probably say is that? The father is the one in Christ and the life is in the blood. He might go to Leviticus 17 11. And life is in the blood and therefore the blood is really the sacrifice and therefore therefore it could be divine but then that is saying then that the divine nature or the human nature itself is what is The sacrifice and there's no humanity in it at all.

But if there's no humanity in the sacrifice Then how is it atonement for people? That's the that's the bridge. That's the problem.

Yeah, it becomes a huge problem, but even in in Acts 20 28 It says that God, you know bought the church with his own blood. You know his blood was not from the Adamic race right. The whole incarnation.

He came from his father, I mean even chemistry tells us that Your your blood comes from your daddy. That's why you have his surname. It doesn't come from mama comes from daddy.

And that's why. My surname is just too awesome to give up. Look at mine.

I dare you to misspell it. But that's what I was thinking. Anyways, it's it's very very important that that Bible is so Divinely woven together. You can't get rid of any of it without destroying it. It's got to stay together and the humanity.

Um, you can't get rid of it.

Um, yeah, uh, can you post a link from this debate that just ended. Just go to here. Just go to here. You'll find it, uh, karm .org, uh calendar. Okay, you'll find it there. Um Jesus says unless you believe that I am you'll die in your sins.

Now was he who was speaking? Now he said the father but here's the problem. It's one of the things I was thinking about how to articulate this because i've never had to think about this. On the fly like this.

That's why I asked. Was jesus breathing? The reason I was asking that. Was he breathing? Was he walking? That's the human nature. But if jesus says unless you believe that I am who's the eye. That's the father.

Well, that would mean then. The father is only indwelling that body. Well, then there's no unification in there. And it also would have meant that any human Could have been indwelt by the father any. Yeah.

The Incarnation, the Hypostatic Union, and the Human Will of Christ

Okay, I'm gonna answer the door. Let's say hi. Hold on guys. Um in case anyone slightly missed what matt was saying he was saying that Otis's model would be that the eye is the father. Come on in russ.

Come on.

Hey, come on. I'm on i'm doing after you want to just come up and sit in the room. Come on up and sit in the room and i'll put a speaker so you can hear it. Yeah. Everybody's listening. Those people listen to the come on up.

Just bring that up too. You might as well. Hmm. Just get you jumping right in here. This is For those who don't know. Hey neek, you want to meet meet him? That's right. Um, this is russ and just i'm gonna tell the people in the thing.

So russ is the guy who runs the radio stations in salt lake city. And the whole area of utah and he's here for something so. Yeah, come on in here when you want. Sorry folks, I know it's. Okay, hey life at the slicks, okay.

So, let me change the audio settings here so I can put it on my Let's see. Okay.

Okay now say something. Somebody say something. You're talking about the other people in the room, right? There we go.

I'm here. Okay, you're here good see you hear the feedback can you hear the feedback from the speaker. No, sir, no feedback here. Good matt an empty chair is talking. It sounds like matt. Yeah. My wife is showing russ around.

So russ is going to be here. We're having a uh evangelist not wheat but evangelism thing is going to be happening tomorrow. And greg laurie's thing and here in boise, idaho. And uh, I love boise, idaho.

Oh, i'm so glad i'm out of california. And so uh russ is in utah, which is five and a half hour drive five hour drive roughly. And so he just came up. He has a friend in the area. He's staying with him eating dinner.

Now he said come on over because I told him hey, come on up. You got a place to stay like and. So unless it was nicholas because I don't know that beard makes him look kind of suspicious. But you know, I probably let it go and so he's just got here and he's the guy who runs the uh, the radio stations, uh in utah.

That my show's on in utah. So he's a great guy. He's a he's a good guy so. You're gonna come in here. So now they can hear you talk you want to say hi here let's i'll introduce you this is russ. There you go, whoops, there you go.

Yeah, that's russ. Okay, so. And i'll do this kind of change it so you guys can watch a little bit of but whatever. All right. Now you guys want to ask? Hey, there you go. Oh, that's because I was that's a delay.

This is the delay feed. This is the live feed. And we just did the debate. So how did how the debate go? Go ahead. Let's go james. I dare you to say how it went and then we'll go to nicholas.

I I caught the tail end probably last 15 20 minutes, maybe a half hour. I'm, not sure I didn't pay attention but um I thought you did quite well um. Of course i'm kind of biased because I I believe in the trinity and really his arguments didn't didn't hold water no One one thing that that I think the unitarian people can't grasp.

Is the fact that as humans we will never never Uh grasp all there is to know about god. It's impossible. And it's beyond us. He's the creator I mean how I i've asked people to explain the trinity to me and nobody's ever been Able to explain it and that's why the bible says that we're supposed to walk by faith and not by sight just trust the bible.

The trinity is is fact. I mean it's there I mean right at the baptism of jesus. Where's god the father? He's in heaven. Where's jesus?

He's in the water in jordan. Two separate. No, no, no, don't you know, it's ventriloquism. Come on. It's right out of the book of second moronicles next to the book of deuterectomy.

Yeah, right right. By the book of second hezekiah. Yep, that's right. First opinions. Yeah, I it's right. Yeah. I look at hebrews 1 8 and god the father is talking to god the son. And calling the son god.

He says thy throne. Oh god. Right. He's not talking to himself.

Yeah, I quoted that to him. Yeah so, you know.

If you go with unitarian then all of a sudden you've got contradictions in the bible. You got major problems. So the only thing that makes sense is a trinity. But go ahead. I'm, sorry, no, no.

No, how about when uh, he said there's no place in the bible where god refers to himself in the plural. Um genesis 1 26. Let us make men in our image. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you just you know. Yeah. Yeah, it was bad.

Yeah, this guy was debating and uh. He actually said jesus was not a man. He's only the flesh and the father was in the flesh and he wasn't really a man and uh.

I said well, wait a minute. Well. Exactly. He said christ is only flesh but jesus is the father so he is making a distinction between christ and jesus.

But I did ask him is jesus a man repeatedly remember. And I went to first timothy 2 5. Uh, there's one meter between man and god the man christ jesus and he goes see christ.

Well, wait a minute don't just stop with one word it says two. You know. So that's remember that. Yeah.

Yeah, and um my view of it is that um. Well first I want to mention that otis said that um trinitarian's cherry pick. But john chapters 14 through 17. That's four chapters. That's not a cherry pick. And I think that's a really huge example of trinitarianism right there.

Well said. And I think you did um. You are exceptionally well prepared for the topic matt and being thrown all those really weird um semantical Tricks and stuff um really gave a chance for you to have to show off how you had to remember.

You know, you couldn't just go by the script you had to go by all the the prep so, um. Anything. But the prep you've had over the course of your life years that you that you are prepared and um yeah, so that really Showed more so than in the past when you go in.

Um knowing what you're gonna do that doesn't show as much of you having to dig around in your mind. So I think it was quite the showcase of um, what you have learned over the years. Oh, praise god definitely.

And then there's one more thing I was mentioning on this was that um. Slipping my mind though, so. Okay. Well, i'll just chime in when I remember.

I posted that verse there deuteronomy 6 4. Um. Yeah, and Lord in the hebrew is Jehovah right with all caps. If I get that right, let me look. And then god and he.

Is elohim? Yes. That's yahweh and god is. Yeah, okay. So. So you've got.

The lord. Singular if I got this, right. Our god elohim. Plural. Is one lord singular. Yeah, but you gotta be careful that argument.

Okay. The word for face F-a-c-e in hebrew is panin panin The I am ending. And it's also plural, but it means one thing so you have a composite unity as a singularity. So it may or may not work that argument, but I understand what you're saying when they when they go to to uh, uh, they go to their.

You know, it's like lord is one actually one. What? That's the question and excuse me Didn't mean to cough into the mic. Yeah, yeah, he used the nsv esv, which I I think is Essentially a good version.

He is essentially it's good. It's not the one paul used.

Definitely wouldn't come from the texas receptus, but anyway.

Yeah, it sounds like you're a texas receptus guy as well. Dare mr. Dare. I prefer dare over james. I hope you don't mind me calling you. That's fine. I don't call that slick. Maybe I should but that can sound kind of like i'm trying to be derogatory.

Hey slick.

Well, it is the way I was going. He was pretty slick. He did a good job. What's that? I said in the debate tonight. You were pretty slick. You did a good job. Thanks.

Well, he made a lot of mistakes and logic and and stuff, but you see that kind of a discussion. Uh. To you know, if I were to say let's just say someone said, you know publisher said matt. We want to take you to take the transcript of what he said.

We want you to write a book of responses to it. I said great. And then but in order to do that, there'll be certain areas. We'd say these are the laws of logic. This is what personhood means. This is why it's used here.

This is his statement. This is why these do don't work, you know, then you can do it little by little. But it takes a lot of time to train people coincidentally this thursday. Here at the house. I'll be starting a series on the trinity and my definition of the trinity.

Of the the paragraph i've been working on the trinity is about 450 words. So i'll be going through that in depth on the doctrine of the trinity. So if you guys are you ever want to watch it you can. But anyway, there's a lot to it and you do need to know some watch.

You need to know some stuff.

Personal Relators, Trinitarian Semantics, and the Limits of Human Knowledge

Oh, definitely that makes a good segue to I wanted to bring up. I came back to my mind um, I don't know if i've run this by you before when i've come on but um I have a very simplified way of explaining Why we refer to them as three persons the one god.

And that is that um, they have personal relationships With one another so there are three personal relators. And so that's what the three persons refers to is that there are three personal relators if you don't.

If you want to say they're not having personal relationship, you're defying the scriptures. If you say they do have personal relationship then um the word persons is a good representation. For that because a lot of people object to it on semantic basis, right?

So what do you think of that explanation of the semantics?

Yeah, it works if you're just what you're doing is you're ferreting out an aspect of that truth and working with it. Absolutely. And I just checked it's not 450. I toned it down 308 words. Because I saw some repetition and a little bit of stuff out there.

But anyway, yeah, that'll be here on youtube. So, um.

If we're keeping up with your channel, we'll see it.

Yeah, I think I put it up on karm or matt slick and uh, I forgot which one I normally do stuff. I'll probably put it up on on the matt slick youtube because I want to get some more followers in there as well.

But yeah, when I searched your name, that was the one I found and I was like i'm not finding the live stream. So maybe it's karm. Yeah, but by then the link came up. So I just followed the link.

Yeah, i'll put it on the calendar. I'll put the information up there. I gotta get a better video feed. I don't know what's going on lately. It's just been so bad. Tomorrow I meet with a guy. Um who. We're having fiber optics put in the area and I called up the company and they're not ready yet.

But they're having it installed and the guy called me back. He goes. I know who you are. I go what he goes. Yeah, you're mad slick. I know who you are. He's listening to you. And he goes i'm here in the area.

I go to church. I go. Whoa, really? He's a christian so he's gonna come over tomorrow and we're gonna talk a little bit of theology and fiber optics and hopefully then. Eventually get this this uh this feed video feed problem going.

Or solve solve it as as a pig panther would say. Anybody else want to come into the room? I want to link up one more time. Can anybody see the last week's debate I had? I missed that. I didn't see that.

He that's worth going into for learning the relationship between determinism. Uh libertarianism and compatibilism in the issue of free will.

Free Will, Determinism, and Compatibilism

Oh nice, we've been dealing with um that topic a lot. Um. Myself and a couple close brothers. One of them was kevin who was in earlier and anthony rogers is here. Hey.

Hey, this guy knows his stuff. Anthony is the man.

Yeah, what's happening around here? I thank you for giving us the opportunity to relax by handling things in side chat for us.

Well, did you see the debate anthony so what happened was I was on Tony costa's channel and I didn't realize you were debating at the same time or else I might have said to tony hey, can we for stall this or something, but.

Uh just so happened. We were already locked in. So anyways, uh, I was able to come in right towards the end when you guys were talking about john eight and no surprise there when he answered the way that he did but I and and and that I think was a window to the rest of the debate.

What I could have expected. I I suppose I wouldn't have expected What I heard you say about his description of the flesh as christ and you know so forth, but uh. For the most part, I think I can probably understand what he would have said elsewhere given how he responded to john eight.

But one thing I was going to say just because that's the one thing I saw is When jesus distinguishes in john eight. And when he speaks about two witnesses the requirement of the law that two witnesses are necessary to judicially establish a matter.

His answer was in effect that the two witnesses are the father and the flesh of christ so you have Either two natures serving as two witnesses or you have one person and another nature. Serving as two witnesses now, obviously, that's not what moses is talking about in the law.

Otherwise a person could say i'm two witnesses my body Testifies to one to this and my soul or spirit testifies to this as well in which case i'm always going to be two witnesses, which means suppose matt and I go to court and I say I'm two witnesses.

Matt's just one right? No, of course matt would be slick enough to say no i've got a body and soul too. But in any case there's there's even something more if you look at john eight jesus doesn't draw a distinction between The person of the father and his humanity.