Apologia Stuff With John Cooper

Non -rockabotas must stop. I don't want to rock the boat. I want to sink it!

Are you going to bark all day, little doggie, or are you going to bite? We're being delusional. Delusional?

Yeah. Delusional is okay in your world view. I'm an animal. You don't chastise chickens for being delusional. You don't chastise pigs for being delusional.

So you calling me delusional using your world view is perfectly okay. It doesn't really hurt. Is he hung up on me?

Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men. The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men, lauding them for their courage.

Go into all the world and make disciples. Not go into the world and make buddies. Not to make brosives. Don't go into the world and make homies.

Disciples. I got a bit of a jiggle neck. That's a joke, pastor.

When we have the real message of truth, we cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not.

And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debase mind to do what ought not to be done.

They were filled with all manner of evil, murder, and I lost my link.

There we go. Strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.

Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who do practice them.

That would be Romans 1, 28 -32. Welcome, everyone, to Apology Radio.

I'm very excited about today's show. And Isaac, you can unmute that. Hi, Joy. Hi. How's it going?

It's just Joy and I today with a special guest. It is. Pastor Jeff's on sabbatical right now, and I'm very excited.

This is a show I've been trying to schedule for a minute, but it's been hard to coordinate schedules with our guest because he's a very busy man and seems to be on the road 24 -7.

But all that to say, live from Kenosha, Wisconsin, on the crazy streets at the

Rittenhouse trial, is John Cooper. What's up, brother?

How's it going, man? Good. How are you? Yeah, I'm doing good. It's good to chat with you. I'm glad we finally got it worked out.

You've been hounding me for like six months. I know. It's been a while. It's all good. I'm glad we were able to make it happen.

Absolutely. I played this song intentionally because it seems like somebody needs a hero. That's true.

Lots of people need a hero. I love to hear it. It's a good song. It still sounds good. Yeah. Your face is a little bare in the video, though.

I know. I don't know who that is. Yeah. Me as a young person, and now,

I don't even know what I look like under this thing. I'm afraid to find out.

Well, man, I'm excited, like I said, to have you back on. I just got to say thank you publicly.

We got to meet, when was that? About a month ago? I don't even know how long ago. Yeah, four weeks ago, probably.

Five? Yeah. You guys were here in Tempe and got to go and brought my girls.

You have two new super fans. Thanks to Cory and Jen, who took them on the tour bus and gave them bananas and cookies.

They won them over very quickly. My oldest, who just turned 11, listens to Skillet 24 -7 now.

I was going to say, the last few times I've seen her, she's been a little more... She's looking a little more like punk rock.

Yeah, she totally has been. She's embracing that, for sure. I appreciate that. Not every parent would, but I will take that from you as a compliment.

Yeah, the perfect family to be in. It's perfect to be a Pearson if you want to be a little, or a lot, punk rock.

I was probably 18 when I hit that stage, so she's a little ahead of me.

Let's put it this way. I have seen a picture of Luke back in the day, where he just basically had a little chunk of red bangs.

The rest of his head was bleached. Did you ever have red hair? Why am I imagining that?

I don't know. I had a red shirt on. Okay, maybe that's it. I'm getting my colors. No one else on this podcast has ever had bleached hair.

Yeah, that's right. When rock music is involved, you have to have every color of hair.

You have to have tried every color. How do you know which one you like the most? You have to try a whole bunch of different colors.

Rock and roll. That's right. I just wanted to thank you guys and say how awesome you are, and how much we appreciate it.

Tell your wife and Jen how much my girls appreciate that. I will. It was great.

I loved getting to meet you and your family. We also got to have

James White and Kelly. I feel like some other people were there too from your church.

I can't remember their names, but it was great getting to see you. Summer was there with her kids.

Oh, of course. Yes, that's right. James' son was there.

It was just a great time to get to meet face -to -face people. We've texted.

We've talked about theology. I've had questions. You've sent me stuff to listen to here and there.

It was great to hang out. It was a great show. I forgot to tell you. I don't know if you knew this.

I don't know if you remember when you were doing the Q &A before the show, and there was the buff dude with the Jesus is

Lord shirt. Do you remember? When they asked you how much you ventured, you were like, not as much as Jesus is

Lord guy. That's one of your worship guys. He definitely goes to our church.

I didn't even know he was there when you said that. I thought it was funny. I got to meet his family before the show.

His kids are musicians, and I've seen their videos. James has sent me their videos of them playing skillet songs.

They're really talented young people. I was really thrilled to get to meet everybody. It was wonderful.

Praise the Lord. Speaking of heroes, we didn't plan this, but I'm wearing a

Mandalorian shirt that says, this is the way, and you've got the Boba Fett shirt. Technically, I have the hero shirt on.

We didn't plan that. I was pretty excited when we both had... You guys are like...

This is the start of a legit bromance. Should I leave? Should I leave the show? Yeah. Cool people always...

We like the same stuff. I'm self -identifying as cool. There you go.

Star Wars, metal, rock and roll. Usually wrestling is involved, like WWE and NASCAR.

It's all in the pot. Did you see the trailer for Boba Fett? No, I haven't.

Was it called The Book of Boba Fett? I think it's going to be a series on Disney+.

It looks awesome. Is Jon Favreau doing that one too? I'll watch anything he's doing.

I wouldn't be surprised if he is. It's probably tied into The Mandalorian. Right. He's like the new

Lucas, but even better. Even better. Way better. Oh, man.

I have a lot of directions I want to go today, if possible. While we're talking about music and stuff...

A couple directions will go here. As you know, when you were here, I was supposed to have seen

August Burns Red at the same theater you played at, which they got postponed until the 7th of December.

This is what I was going to tell you, because I knew this would get you fired up. They had canceled a bunch of shows, because they came down with the

Rona and stuff. Oh, okay. I just heard an interview with them the other day, their guitarist, and he was like, yeah, so they got 12 people in their crew.

Nine out of 12 of us came down with COVID, so we had to postpone six shows. This is what's crazy.

He goes, so the nine out of 12 of us that got COVID were all vaccinated.

Oh, wow. The three people that didn't get COVID were not vaccinated, but already had it.

I'm like, and they're just like, but now I feel good, because I got the natural antibodies and everything.

I'm just like, guys, you've not seen this. You've not seen what's happening here.

I was like, oh, man, come on. Come on, people. I'm glad we're acknowledging natural immunity, though.

Yeah. Antibodies. I saw something the other day. A college football coach came down with it and was missing a game or whatever, because he tested positive.

But I'm thankful I got the vaccination. And I'm just like, Yeah, I saw an article that was like, man wishes he had been vaccinated, because it would have not been as bad.

Which he doesn't really know, just based off of the headline. You don't know how it would have been.

But it's interesting. It's a crazy time, because there's a collective mind losing.

You know? It's true. The whole country, we've lost our minds.

And I've tried to be, I mean, in general, I think I'm a fairly gracious person, or I try to be, where it's like, hey,

I really don't care, Luke, if you get the vaccine or not. And I don't know if you care if I get.

It doesn't matter to me. There's certain things that you can make a choice. But there's been this collective mind just,

I mean, people have gone crazy. I fully expect half the country to be eating grass and Nebuchadnezzar pretty soon.

And what's really weird to me is that I've been speaking out about my faith in Christ, sorry, not in the

Christian music, in the mainstream music. Well, maybe in the Christian as well. I'm desperately trying to get the

Christian band saved if we can. But yeah, I've been speaking out for Christ for a long, long time in the mainstream world.

Now, let's be honest. Everybody in the mainstream world is nuts about that. They don't necessarily love hearing about Jesus, but they have always put up with me.

Some have supported me, even. But I'll tell you what. The most kickback I have ever received ever for my faith has been on my stance on vaccine mandates and mask mandates.

It is as if I just, the unforgivable sin. I said to my wife,

I said, the amazing thing that it shows me is that it wasn't the gospel, quote, of Christ that made them really, really angry, meaning

Jesus is the way, the truth, the life. No one comes to the Father unless they come through Him. A lot of people didn't love that message, but they can deal with it.

But they will not deal with you speaking out against the state. They will not deal with it.

What you're really witnessing is an actual, you've spoken against their God.

You did not bow down to Nebuchadnezzar's idol of gold. It is the one thing you're not allowed to do.

It's just been really amazing to me. A lot of the bands, I'm just thinking of this because you're talking about bands, they just don't know what to do.

When I say they, I mean, we're in there too. We just don't know what to do because you're in an entertainment industry that is largely driven by social media and media at large.

You're not allowed to speak anything against, I mean, you get rage against the machine telling people that if they don't get a vaccine, you know, rage against the machine has become the machine.

That's so ironic. It's crazy. I'm like, wait a minute. I'm the revolutionary here.

I'm the revolutionary and rage against the machine is just government rock now. I don't know.

My older brother made up the term government rock, which I find pretty awesome. I like that. I think it's pretty great.

It's a great way to scoff at someone. Anyway, there you go. No, I appreciate that.

It's like we're back in the first generation of Christianity.

We're not St. Caesar's Lord and, like you said, we're the revolutionaries because we're like, no, Jesus is

Lord. Not going to about anyone else. Sorry. It's weird, isn't it?

I do think it is a collective mind loss and whether we get into this more or not.

Eventually, I have to imagine. I'm not predicting the future, but I have to imagine eventually that people will get so crazy and it will get so dumb that finally everybody goes, okay, all right.

We've had enough. This is just unworkable. That's what I mean when I say people are eating grass and staring up at the moon like Nebuchadnezzar.

Eventually, you're like, okay, this is crazy. Who knows if and when that will happen, but I have to imagine in the arc of history, at some point, it will happen.

People will realize what's going on. We'll write books about how dumb we were. Absolutely.

This is why I'm glad I'm a post -millennialist because I can think long -term.

I don't know if you happen to catch James Dr. White just did another sweater vest dialogue with Doug Wilson.

One of their points of conversation was, and I love what

Doug said, but I've been saying similar things. Right now, it's like clearly our nation's under God's judgment.

There's no doubt about that. Even within the church, it's like God's blowing the chaff away within the church and revealing who the true faithful Christians are.

Within history, I think this period we're in right now will just be a little blip.

People will look back and be like, can you believe what they did? I forget the analogy

Doug used, but basically, if you've ever played a football game or any sporting event and the team you're playing against starts playing against each other, that's what we're witnessing.

The team we're up against, they're starting to fight and they're going to eventually fall apart. I keep saying that I think we'll outlive, and our kids and grandkids and great -grandkids will outlive this nonsense because we're the ones reproducing.

We're the ones that are being faithful with families and not murdering our children and adopting and stuff like that and not being homosexual.

We'll eventually outlive this. It may take 100 years or so, but that's why it's so important to have a long -term view of history.

I absolutely know what you mean, and I would say it seems to me again along the lines of what you're saying that that is the rewards of the blessings of the covenant in Deuteronomy.

You do these things and because you are in the flow of God's design, you're in the flow of His covenant, this is what pleases

God. When you do them, you are going to thrive. I have to just think, yes, we have a battle plan.

It's called keeping the law of God. If we do that, even if this period of time we're in now, even if it lasts a long time, eventually the blessings of God will be so evident in the church and in people that the world wakes up to what is going on.

I think that's a little bit of a piece of what you're saying as well. Absolutely, I appreciate that. Were you going to say something,

Joy? You look like you were going to say something. Basically, what you're saying is that you haven't deconstructed.

Yeah. No, I have definitely not deconstructed, but I'm always happy to talk about deconstruction whenever you want to.

Give me a reason. Just staying on the music theme, I've talked a lot about the

Labeled podcast on here, The History of Tooth and Nail. That's where I heard that August Burns interview and stuff.

I've tried really hard to get them engaged with us and people that I know in the industry that have connections and all that stuff in regards to theology and all that stuff.

It's just been crickets. I cannot figure out what the heck is going on. Anyways, recently the host of Labeled, he's the guitarist for the band

Emory. Oh, I didn't realize that. He had the Bad Christian podcast, if you remember that.

I don't think it exists anymore. Oh, okay. Matt, I totally lost his last name.

Anyways, he recently was talking about how he deconstructed.

I've noticed a theme lately in a lot of their episodes where they had Aaron Sprinkle on this last week, who is just really important producer within Tooth and Nail records and all that stuff.

Do you know who Aaron Sprinkle is? Oh, yes, of course. Then he's kind of saying the same things, deconstructing and all that stuff.

I've noticed a theme recently and I've just been like, come on! It's just a noise the heck out of me.

They're saying stuff like, oh, it's so freeing. I can be free and talk about these things.

I can look at the things of the Bible and appreciate the good things that Jesus said.

I'm just like, oh my goodness gracious, you guys have just become meaningless.

Obviously, they have no objective standard anymore. It's just, well, yeah, some things Jesus said were really cool and really great and I can love people, but that stuff about homosexuality or whatever, whatever flavor of Jesus that they don't like, they can just say, well,

I've deconstructed so I don't need to hold to that anymore. Well, John, I actually have a question that that kind of brings up.

Probably most people who are listening right now have not lived extended periods of time on the road and then been home.

Obviously, your experience is not what everyone's is going to be, but what does discipleship and church attendance and stuff look like when you're out, when you're not in one place?

Sure, sure. Well, maybe I could tie, I might tie that question in a little bit with what

Luke was saying. Right. Before I do, I should be clear that I don't know

Aaron Sprinkle. I know who Aaron Sprinkle is of course, because TPL was so big. I have some things to say about that, but they are not out of personal knowledge.

They are huge generalizations, except that you're saying you listen to something and you're specific.

I think last time I was on Apology Radio, I believe we talked about this, Luke, and I was saying that when

I was first coming into the Christian market that I had that experience where I met a lot of Christian rock bands or not just,

I shouldn't say Christian rock, Christian bands, contemporary rock, whatever, and I did notice that there really wasn't, there really was not an excitement about the idea of living your faith for Christ.

Maybe in theology we might want to call that lordship, or holy living, sanctification, whatever you want to call it.

There wasn't an excitement that Jesus Christ not only saved me, but He gave me a brand new heart, and now my job is to live by His laws.

That's my job. And that's not only my job, that's what I want, because the Holy Spirit has come in my heart, and the

Holy Spirit not only gives me the capability to live by His laws, but it gives me a desire to love what

He loves and to hate what He hates. That was not evident in Christian music, and so as a huge generalization as you say, what you just said about that movement of tooth and nail, that's just not surprising because a lot of what in general, a lot of what those bands were clearly all about, even when

I met them, they were always supportive of basically moral anarchy.

They were never interested again, it's a huge generalization.

A lot of them were never interested in being I want to live by the law of God, and that's what is good.

So what you have basically are basically a lot of people who believe in God, and they believe that they need a

Savior, whether that is literal or not, they need something to lift them up, you know what

I mean? I need something to get me in a better place, maybe not a Savior to literally atone for the sins in my life that have earned me the wrath of God.

So it's kind of like one of the reasons I think the church is here, as you just said, the football team that's fighting itself right now, which is, it's amazing to me to see so many

Christians on the wrong side of what is happening in our earth right now, to see

Christians actively promoting church closures because of COVID, actively promoting segregation in churches for whoever has a vaccine.

What's wrong with these people? Christians actively promoting rioting, actively promoting burning things down because the

Rittenhouse trial doesn't go the way they want it. As you see this happening, I think what it's really bringing up is this distinction of who believes in the law of God, and who just believes in general that God is real.

Because those are two different things, man. So I think that that's important, and when I look at Skillet, to go to the question that Joy was asking,

I think that what Skillet has had that is really, truly wonderful and that I try to talk about all the time, is that Skillet is a part of a church, like a local expression of the body of Christ that we call a church, if that's the right word.

I have leaders in my life, I have spiritual authority in my life, and I have elders and pastors and brothers and sisters, and we're not just an island going to do our own thing.

Spreading what's the word? Spreading positivity. I put that in air quotes. Not just spreading a positive message about a

God who loves people. It's more than a positive message. It's the truth of Christ yes who loves people and wants to redeem you.

That you would repent and be born again. So I think that that is big. What church looks like for Skillet on the road,

I will say when we're on the road, it is not it is not it's not like every

Sunday we go to a church. When we first started touring, we would go to a church on the road because it felt like the right thing to do, but it just didn't work for lots of reasons, which

I won't say. So we did begin sometimes having our own church, if you will. We would sing songs together, especially when my kids were little.

We'd worship together and we would talk about Scripture or this and the other. Now it's more of an issue of we can, because of the internet, we can watch,

I can watch my own church online if I want to. So we didn't have that sort of streaming available all those years ago, but now we do.

So now there's so much great information, teaching, theology, my own church will stream online, we can do worship together as a family or as a band online, things like that.

But I think one of the things that Skillet had going for us different was that we had a passion we had a passion not just for Christ but for His people, for His kingdom, which is actually a really big deal.

And I think a lot of bands don't have that sort of understanding of the Scriptures or maybe they don't care or maybe they never had anybody teach that or they've never experienced the life of the church so they don't know what they're missing.

I think I imagine and I'm just thinking about this right now as we're talking about it,

I imagine a lot of these bands that we're talking about that meet in a youth group or just their young kids growing up in a

Christian home or they grew up in the church or whatever and they form a band and stuff and then obviously God's sovereign and saves those

He wants to save and everything but I imagine a lot of these bands I hadn't even thought about that so I'm glad you asked that question

Joy. They start going on the road, they start touring they get away from their families they get away from the church and accountability and then next thing you know they're abandoning

Christ and it just makes sense. There's such a guilt in culture already in the entertainment industry and it's not a culture where you're going to be discipled or you're going to have any authority you're going to be taught you're going to be taught in authority and it's not going to be

God. That's actually a really great point that you just made. I think that people like the

Reform folks tend to get this in my view better than other

Christians of other tribes or whatever you want to call it The Reform people understand this myth of neutrality much better than other streams.

I think in certain other streams there can be the notion of that there are neutral areas maybe the music business is just a neutral area and you can use it for good or you can use it for bad or you can just kind of do your thing and Christ doesn't have to come into that specific area.

The Reform folks know that there is no such thing as a neutral area. Everything belongs to Christ and anything not surrendered to Christ of course is going to be chaos.

As you know Luke you did a sermon on that. Christ or chaos The Reform people get that so well What happens is that a lot of Christian musicians go out into the music industry and they're basically like it's a neutral area

What they do not understand is that the entertainment world is absolutely under the lordship of chaos from the world's point of view

It is actively warring against everything that Christ stands for It is moral anarchy

That side is of the belief much like the sexual revolution of the 60s. It's of the belief of the only reason that we're not happy is because Christianity or other forces want to keep us chained up in this repression of our sexuality

That's the reason that we don't have freedom If we had utter freedom If we could throw the shackles off of all sexuality and just live as sexual animals then that would actually make us really happy They not only believe that They praise it.

They praise chaos That radical revolution The whole industry is governed by that Christians are naive to think maybe just because I have the brand

Christian band or even Christian music industry that those aspects are going to be not at play

That is naivety It is absolute naivety and a misunderstanding I think of scripture and the war at hand

That's a really good point I appreciate that a ton I just saw a couple questions pop up for you in our live chat

I'm going to tell you right now you don't have to answer these You can laugh at the first one

I'm going to read to you because it's hilarious Someone is asking about your Illuminati symbols all over all over your albums

Yeah, I've had people The only reason I know what

Illuminati is, is because people will be like, why do you have Illuminati symbols? Well, now

John that sounds like something someone in the Illuminati would say It does, doesn't it?

It's the same with QAnon Whenever I make a stance about something political,

I'm accused of being QAnon In fact, when I said that I wouldn't play any concerts that were vaccine -only

People on my fans on the left were like, I knew you were QAnon, and I'm like, now I've got to look up another thing

Here's what I would say I find this kind of so frustrating, obviously

I love the fact that Christians care I love the fact that Christians care about what's going on and care about righteousness and let's talk about ethics that glorify

God Let's talk about His law, I love that they care But man, people get legalistic in the weirdest stuff

They get legalistic about a triangle on a record I've heard people say, if you look on this album, there's a triangle, and I look at them like, hey, that's not even a triangle

Look at the three sides But even if it did it's a triangle, but they get legalistic about the weirdest stuff, so I never spend any time defending it

I never defend myself, I never say no, it's not, it's this and this and this I just let those people go about their business

I kind of view them like Jesus viewed, remember when the disciples were like, Jesus that other guy's baptizing people over there, and Jesus is like let them do their own thing

That's how I view it If you think Skillet's Illuminati, don't listen You're missing out on really good music and it would really pump you up but feel free to not listen

I'm laughing because we I know you can't see us, but we have our radio logo behind us that has a trisetra in it, and literally every show we do, someone's like why do you have pagan symbols?

And it's just, no matter how many times we say it's not a pagan symbol and explain it, they don't want to hear it I was laughing when

I saw that, but the next question and I can answer this for you if you want, because I know we've been talking about this, but someone right after that said

I heard John was part of the seven mountain mandate A seven?

Oh Oh, I know Because it's like the post -millennialism You had asked me about this a couple weeks ago, and so I was explaining to you the difference between this kind of the apostolic seven mountain thing and the difference between that and post -millennialism

I don't think that was me It wasn't you? Was that me getting you that?

I may have I don't remember calling it seven mountain because I don't quite know what that refers to There's another name that goes by which

I'm completely blanking on right now I'll go ahead and answer this for you So, no,

John does not believe in the seven mountain mandate He's a post -millennialist So the difference between the two is essentially

So seven mountain thing comes a lot from Bethel, Reading, and stuff

The idea is that there's seven mountains within culture that we have to overcome, that we have to take dominion over in the name of Christ, and then his kingdom will be ushered in.

That's kind of the idea of what that is And it's literally the reverse of post -millennialism because we're saying, no,

Christ's kingdom is already here, Christ is ruling and reigning and we Christ's kingdom will eventually take over everything and Christ will return when everything is put under his feet the last being death.

So it's literally the reverse of that, but we often get criticized saying that that's what we're teaching because they're similar, but reversed in similar ways

But both have to do with the kingdom of God on earth and both have to do with every dominion belonging to Christ but maybe it's a difference

So I can't even answer that because I'm not really aware of it So whoever said that I'm not saying they're lying, maybe

I said something once that gave them a feeling of something. I'm not really sure, but I won't answer.

I'll leave it at that Yeah, well, I'm fine answering for you No! The answer's no It's also totally just, you know, for if anyone cares, it's totally a great thing to just be gracious in your assumptions

So even if you hear someone say something that you think might mean X, Y, and Z unless they've explicitly said that they believe that then it's just better to be gracious in your assumptions and not assign people beliefs that they aren't even totally aware exist

It's totally good Exactly right Alright, well while we're still talking about music why don't you take a moment to promote your new album which is coming out soon

Yeah, I would love to. So the new record is called The 7 Mountain Mandate Yeah Someone's gonna take that, you're done

Someone's gonna take that clip 7 triangles on the album cover But all the triangles come together to make a giant

It's like Voltron Which Voltron, a V, is a little bit like a triangle if you think about it

It's like a two -sided triangle Anyway Again, I'm not making fun of anybody,

I'm not really aware, but the record is called Dominion actually And hey, it could be the case that I've said something in the past that was confusing about Dominion, but I'm so very excited about the record

Sometimes, I mean look when you're making art you hope that or when you're preaching, say if you're preaching a sermon or writing a book or whatever you hope that God is leading you in what you are to say you hope that you have a message that is timely that of course is what's the word hopefully full of the word of God consistent with scripture but there are certain things in a moment in time that are more timely than others and you can sometimes have that feeling maybe if you're getting ready for a sermon or maybe if you read a great book and you're like, oh my gosh, this book was so timely

I feel like that this album is timely in that way and that's not to say that it's absolutely utterly different than any other songs we've had in the past.

We had a record in 2013 called Rise Rise is a record that if I wrote it right now

I would actually think it was probably more timely now than it was even in 2013 because it was also talking about the same rise in revolution that's what that song was about album, excuse me so that being the case you hope that God is kind of, you know pumping this music full of the word that is timely for today

I feel that this record is like that. It is, if people have been listening to me on Cooper stuff or read my book or heard me on Apologia Radio then, and if you like what

I'm saying, you probably will hear those messages in the album. It's a very in your face, the lyrics are very much about standing up for what you believe in not being silent which is a really important thing right now because even within Christianity, I mean everybody would always say don't be silent about the gospel, but even within Christianity there are things that I think we should not be silent about right now that are gospel related, such as the government should not be coming in and closing down our churches.

That is wrong, right? It is outside of their purview and they are stepping out of their sphere of sovereignty and they are in that sense they are usurping the authority of Christ, right?

Well that is something that we should not be silent about, but there are a lot of Christians that would point to me or you

Luke and Joy and Apology and say actually you guys don't need to be saying what you're saying because you're being overly aggressive maybe or overly like all you're doing is stirring people up and that's not what it's about.

So in these songs that we have, it's not just saying that I won't be silent about the gospel it's saying

I won't be silent about what the gospel demands and I think that that's an important distinction because a lot of Christians think the gospel is nothing more than Jesus died on a cross.

The gospel is more than that. The gospel is repent that you would be born again and that the

Holy Spirit through the word of God would teach you how to live according to statues.

So those kind of messages are in the record. The song Dominion which is the title track of course is the most anti -establishment song we've ever written.

Not everybody is going to know what the song means but you know maybe they take it in this way or this way but people who are of like mind as all of us and probably a lot of people listening to the broadcast right now

I think that they will know what it means. The second verse of the song says let me think of my lyrics real fast alright colliding, here's what it says colliding chaos and that chaos is a reference to the binary choice

Christ or chaos alright. Colliding chaos pre -programmed robots, no dissent allowed at all, a 40 foot golden idol.

It's not your place I'll never bow down to the power state death will not dominate so if you understand what we're talking about what we're saying is this if Christ is not the

Lord then chaos will rule and chaos will lead to death and so people that like what we like they're going to know what we're talking about and I hope it encourages

Christians to be bold in their faith and to stand up with strength that confidence in the word of God that's what

I hope. Man I'm very excited for that when does that album drop? January 14th the second single just came out you texted me and told me that you listened to it and your new punk rock daughter is liking it which

I love and this song is called Standing in the Storm and you can even hear it in the lyrics of that I think the

B verse of the first verse says time for me to be defiant cause

I won't be silent when I suffer slinging shots at Goliath gonna call down fire, rain and thunder you know what

I'm saying that feels like a message for today we're not just being defensive against Goliath we're the ones coming on to the battlefield we may have just been teenagers we were just out there with those few sheep and we came in and we said hey who is this uncircumcised dog who speaks against the armies of the living

God this is our time to say that oh man I'm fired up now actually

I'm going to play Surviving the Game at the end just you know that's actually my almost seven year old that's her favorite song she told me

I like that one cause you get a little aggressive with the vocals in it I know you like that metal

I saw you with that metal shirt on and your wife yeah she was rocking

I think she was wearing Norma Jean I was like oh ok I get a pretty good idea of what you guys are about I know it's funny when

I was at your show cause I was telling I forget who I told but I was

I think it was Carmen I was talking to and I was just like it was a different crowd than when

I usually cause I've been to Marquee a bunch it's a different crowd than I'm used to you know going to shows there nobody was throwing punches and kung fu kicks and there was no mosh pits nobody was kung fu fighting oh man that's hilarious fast as lightning yes we got them going so yes

I'm very excited to hear Dominion specifically I'm very excited so anywho were you going to say anything?

ok so I'm just trying to figure out how I want to end the show here we got about 15 minutes left it's good to hear that people are writing good quality oh totally

I mean there's definitely well maybe there's not as much of a market as there should be but we're here listening and appreciating it and it'll just grow that's what we know

I do appreciate it I mean obviously you've been so just bold in your lyrics over was it 30 years?

not that long almost 25 I'm just thankful and I think this is a good example of I say this a lot but I feel like Christians just need someone to lead they just need someone to be bold and brave and courageous and not cower to the 40 foot idol you're talking about just lead by example and the fact that you've done that and people still stream your songs like none other literally is amazing and I praise

God for that I know we talked a little bit when I saw you at that show I'm thankful for the platform that God's given you because people listen and you're just like I just love the fact that you're like I don't really care if you like this or not this is what needs to be said and people are listening and so keep it up that's great well

I appreciate that I'm so thankful that there are so many I know

I told you this when we were hanging out, there are so many voices rising up saying very similar things for the most part and man 10 years ago

I didn't even know there was any voices I didn't even know where to find out about them and now that my world keeps opening up and I keep meeting people of like mind, some of these people don't believe everything that I believe and even me and Apologia we don't agree on everything some of the people

I've met that I've been really thankful for are not Calvinist, they're Arminian but they are passionately preachers of the gospel of Christ and I love it we are all saying similar things meaning that the gospel isn't just believing that God is real, to go back to what we said earlier it's not just believing that God is real it's not just believing that Jesus was quote, different than other people, which is one of the things you, basically the deconstructions are basically saying,

Jesus was different because he was just such a great man I mean, we're not really saying anything all that different than what maybe a

Muslim would say about Jesus, you know, like, yeah, he may have even been some sort of prophet and good teacher, but he's not necessarily the savior of the world, so the deconstructionists are, they're all kind of all over the place, and I'm meeting

Christian people from the Arminian world, from the Baptist world from my world, which is the reform world, and just all over the place, and we are all kind of saying similar things, and so I kind of feel like Skillet's role is to be that voice in the arts, you know, so there's not a lot of us, maybe and that's not patting myself on the back there are others, by the way, but there aren't necessarily a lot and the truth is, is it does come with a price, and in a similar way,

I could look at myself almost like, not in a braggy way, in an honest way, in fact this is supposed to be the opposite of bragging by the way, almost like Dave Chappelle like Dave Chappelle's taking a huge stand right now in his world saying basically and when

I say that, I'm not saying that I'm not endorsing anything Dave Chappelle says, okay, but the point is, is that he's kind of like the lone guy, putting it to Netflix, putting it to the woke culture in his little world, but the truth is, is that Dave Chappelle doesn't have a lot to lose

I mean, he has everything to lose, but he's already made it, you know what I mean, he's not going to be, he's not going to be poverty stricken, he's not going to be thrown out you know, if his career ends today

Dave Chappelle's going to be fine and in a similar way, that's where Skillet is at, if my career ended today,

I'm fine, I'm not destitute my kids are older, I've got nothing to lose in terms of that for the greater picture there are a lot of Christian musicians that if they say what

I say, they're done, their career is done before it even began and they feel

God's called them to say something, and so they're trying to say, well, how can I do what God's called me to do when it's going to literally end my career, and so I'm trying to be a voice for them that says, hey, you know what

I can stand losing a little bit, because I've already been there, I've already done it, and yeah,

I have something to lose, but not as much as they do, and I'm trying to encourage those people to see that even if you do lose everything, even if skillet doesn't lose everything, what good is it to gain the world but lose your soul?

That is the moment that we are at. It's not like it used to be 20 years ago. We are at a real,

I believe impasse. I mean, this is a full -on cosmic tug of war that is happening right now in our country, and if we lose it's going to be devastating, not just for Christians it's going to be devastating for the world because the world non -Christians in America don't know how bad things will get for them if they get what they want.

Do you understand what I mean? It's sort of like the Russian Revolution. People fought for it.

They didn't know how bad it was going to get until now. Guess what? Your family is starving, or what have you.

It will get like that for everybody, so it's real. Amen. I know

I said we would talk about cosmic justice and Rittenhouse a little bit, so I'll kind of tie this all together here like a fine rug.

Sorry, I'm laughing because somebody just asked why is there a picture of the skull in the background? How does that glorify

God? Well, that's John's face, and it's pretty cool. Moving on. That's what's underneath my skin if I still had a beard.

You know what? I have seen a lot of people that are not thrilled about it. I love it. I never crossed my mind it was scary or dark.

I thought it was funny. I love it. I have met a lot of people that are a little offended, so if someone watching is offended by it, it was supposed to be funny.

Sorry. It's all good. No need to apologize. It just goes back to what we were saying earlier. Anyways, oh boy.

Going back to the beginning, I read Romans 1 there and talking about people needing a hero and all that.

To tie this in with Rittenhouse and everything going on there. We're not bringing this up necessarily as an endorsement for Kyle Rittenhouse.

I will say I think he was trying to be a hero. He may not have been smart about it, but this literally is

John's neighborhood. We were talking, this was literally his neighborhood. It's too weird to not bring it up. These jerks were rioting and were going to blow up a gas station, which would have blown up John's neighborhood.

Whether or not Kyle Rittenhouse was smart about the way he did it, he was trying to be a hero. He was trying to protect his neighborhood.

This is an upstanding young man and was trying to do the right thing. Going back to Romans 1, morality obviously has been completely flipped.

It's done a 180. Here there's jerks rioting, trying to burn down a city, and they're the ones that are being upheld as the heroes.

The guy that talked about cosmic justice and the law of God and objective morality, he was doing the right moral thing in the eyes of God and is being villainized.

It's just amazing to watch what's happening. Again, I'm not saying this as an endorsement of everything that he did.

I haven't followed that closely, but I know enough to know that that's what's been going on.

I know, John, you were saying you've been wanting to talk about cosmic justice and justice here on Earth and stuff.

I want to let you preach here for a minute. You're right.

It is in my neighborhood. I probably take about maybe ten minutes or nine minutes for me to walk to the courthouse where it's happening now.

Where the people actually were shot by Kyle Rittenhouse was closer than that. It's probably a six, seven minute walk from my house.

It is crazy. I think that one of the things we have to remember in this is that when

I was watching the trial, they kept showing the videos over and over. There was a little bit of a...

I will be honest with you. My wife was watching it and Corey was like, I can't watch these videos anymore. She was getting emotional.

It was bringing you all the way back to this feeling of chaos. That's really all that you can describe.

I think what we have to remember is that when you're in a city to where the police are not allowed to do anything and a lot of people won't remember this but I know it because I was here.

At the time, Trump was president. Trump had called our governor and said, hey, can we send national troops in?

Because there was a full night of rioting and burning down cities. One of the store owners had gotten his jaw, his head cracked open.

It was all over the news. Trump had called, can we send national guard? Our governor said, no, we don't want it.

But he also was not allowing the police to do anything. What you end up having is this feeling of anarchy.

When you have anarchy, again, there is no neutrality. It's going to be filled.

It reminds me of back in those days there was no king. Everyone did what was right in their own eyes.

Everybody's going to be like, well, heck, if nobody's going to do this, then I need to do something. I had a friend that's actually on staff at a church that I would not have thought in a million years would do this, but he joined.

His neighborhood, they sent out Facebook messages in the neighborhood. We had to get a group of armed men together to not let anybody come into this neighborhood without checking every single car.

They did a check. They had weapons, the whole thing. You cannot come in the neighborhood without us opening up the trunk to make sure they didn't have gas cans.

This is just a private neighborhood. My pastor friend that I did not think would go went, but he doesn't have a weapon.

He doesn't have a gun. He never had a gun. He shows up with a baseball bat, but he didn't want anybody to know.

He's like, my kids live here. What am I going to do? This sense of protection, all of these things were going on.

I guess the thing that's really on my mind is that all of a sudden, once that's gone, what can happen, what

I think Christians, a lot of Christians did without, I think, knowing it because they don't have a system.

They don't have a system of what it means to have godly law. Let's just be honest.

Outside the Reform community, there's not a lot of teaching about the law, and there's not a lot of teaching about do we even need to adhere to the law anymore.

In fact, a lot of Christians actually, because we are not under the law, as it says in Romans, they think the law doesn't matter anymore.

They're misunderstanding. They're piecemealing all of their theology. What they're doing is, well,

I actually don't think that anybody should have a weapon and go, let's just forget

Kyle Rittenhouse. Let's just talk in hypotheticals. Let's say that I owned the car lot. They would be like, well,

John, I don't think that you should go with a weapon and protect your own car lot because cars aren't people.

It's stuff like that. I'm like, yeah, but the law tells us about that you cannot steal.

You cannot go in your neighbor's field and burn it down. In other words, property rights actually matter, and we know that because of the law.

They don't understand all of these things, so they're piecemealing each little thing like, well, I don't really think that you should do that.

Well, I don't really think you should do A, B, or C, or D, but there's no system, and what I think a lot of Christians have gotten their heads into is a philosophy of the world, and I would just call it, as you said,

I would call it cosmic justice. It's this idea that in this world that we can get to the end of all things.

It can be some sort of cosmic settling of all scores where nobody suffers. I think that that's the definition

Thomas Sowell gives, Thomas Sowell, the great American thinker. I think his definition of cosmic justice is basically the end of suffering.

No one suffers at all. It is the very end of the settling of all scores, and as a

Christian, we should know that there's only one judge that is capable of that kind of justice, and it ain't me, and it ain't you.

That is God. God is the only judge who is capable of having omniscience and omnipresent and knowing the intention of the heart and this, that, the other.

That can't happen on earth, and what I think a lot of Christians are falling into is this idea that, yeah, but because a thing happened, whether you're going back several hundred years into slavery, whether you're going back 60 years into civil rights, whether you're going back to last year with George Floyd, because that happened, then it should be okay to allow the burning down of buildings in downtown

Kenosha, and if somebody like me says, I don't think we should allow the burning down of buildings in Kenosha, to their minds,

I don't love justice, because when they say justice, they don't mean equity under the law. They mean cosmic justice, and a lot of Christians are falling into that trap, and if we do it, then all it does is it impounds injustice upon injustice.

So I guess one of the things I would just say, Thomas Sowell says this, but tons of Christian theologians say it, of course, as well, that in order to try to enact cosmic justice on earth, you have to have injustice now.

It's the only way to do it. You have some form of injustice that says, hey, because of George Floyd last year, which was a tragedy in Minneapolis, because that happened, then there needs to be an injustice now against owners of the buildings in Kenosha.

Almost like a propitiation. You know, almost like some sort of appeasement of wrath in order for people to have a settling of scores, but it doesn't actually work that way.

And the sad part about it is this, and then I'll be done, is that because they have made, like Kyle Rittenhouse is a stand -in for white supremacy, even though he shot three white people, even though that's the case, they have also made the buildings in Kenosha and the businesses also a stand -in for white supremacy.

Even though everybody that lives in Kenosha knows that lots of these store owners are non -white folks, we have a huge Latina community in Kenosha.

Tons of brown people, tons of black people in terms of ownership. But it doesn't matter if the owners of the stores were black or not because the stores themselves are some sort of federal head for white supremacy in a certain way.

So what you can have, and I'll end with this, is that to me, which just blows my mind, you can have white people burning down stores that are owned by black people and the white people are performing some sort of anti -racism, even though they're hurting actual black people.

This is craziness. This is, again, this is Nebuchadnezzar eating the grass. This is all of us eating the grass outside and barking at the moon, not realizing that we have actually lost our minds.

And at some point, we will realize that's not actually how justice works. So I just want to encourage

Christians, stop losing your minds, come back to the law of God, realize that you and me cannot enact cosmic justice, and in order to say that we love justice means we have to love biblical justice.

And you said you're going to do your next Cooper stuff on that? I think so, yeah.

I've taken two weeks off because I'm so busy and exhausted and I've been sort of writing a new book and my head's been in it and I just took a couple of weeks off to get my head together and that message is what's on my mind.

So I plan on releasing that on Monday. I'm looking forward to that. By the way, if you're watching and you have not subscribed to Cooper stuff, please do.

I get real excited when and I get really sad when it's a Monday and there's not an episode.

Yeah, I usually get a text from you. Like, hey, where's it at? Like, what are you doing over there?

Quit being lazy, put your big boy pants on and get to work. No, I love it. I'm super excited.

So please go and check it out, everyone, and subscribe to it. But just to end on what you were saying there, I think one thing to add that's important and everything you said was right on, it's like this, it's a new religion, right?

And the problem with this new religion is there's no ultimate reconciliation.

Yeah. And they still know that atonement has to come through the shedding of innocent blood.

Everyone knows that and that's why, you know, I talk about this with abortion, like people want to murder their babies because they worship the god of comfort and they need the shedding of innocent blood in order to bring atonement for comfort essentially, but it's the same sort of thing.

They need a sacrificial lamb and they're not turning to Jesus, but there's, within this religion, there's no ultimate reconciliation.

And here's a quote I share. Well, that's the reparation. Yeah. Women, the reparation is that women were mistreated and live in a system that is fundamentally against them, so to make it up to them, they're allowed to kill their children.

Right, right, exactly. And there's a quote I always share from my good friend Toby Sumter, he always says that as Christians, he doesn't always say it,

I always say it, he said it one time, as Christians we should reject all invitations to victimhood because we're never truly innocent and we have the perfect victim.

And I love that quote and it's so right on, but Christians just miss that and they want to constantly just because victimhood is so huge right now, it's so easy.

You can be a victim of anything and then you can just use that as your crutch in life and whatever it is.

So yeah, there's no ultimate reconciliation in this because the only way you can have ultimate reconciliation is through the sacrifice of truly innocent blood and that's happened, and so we need to point people to that, so.

Thank you brother for being on today. I loved it, it's great chatting with you guys. Very excited, so anything else you want to add or point people to before we?

No man, I'll just remind people please check out the new Skillet Music, it's on iTunes, there's two songs out now, the album comes out in January and I hope people love the music and if people are interested in following Cooper Stuff, you can do that on Apple Podcasts or YouTube, Cooper Stuff Podcast, you can do that and you can get my book through there as well, through my website, johnlcooper .com

And you can also get some banging beard balm from Hawk &

Hatchet. You know you can! Listen, I'm going to tell you, by the way, sorry about that stupid annoying little noise, that was me,

I couldn't figure out what was happening. My timer had gone off and I was like, I couldn't figure out where to close it. I'm going to promote

Hawk & Hatchet. I'm a connoisseur of good beard products and have, you know, had some nice products.

I genuinely genuinely love Hawk &

Hatchet and it's really great stuff. I'd love to hear that. That's so cool.

We just released new products as well so go to hawkandhatchet .com and we don't have time to talk about it but basically

I'm a part owner in this business and it's beard products, apothecary for men and women, but particularly the guy stuff is just really cool.

It's utilitarian, it's military, but it smells good. It's just cool products.

So hawkandhatchet .com Go check it out. Alright bro, I appreciate it man. Thanks for being on again.

I loved it. Thank you guys. Have a great one. I'll be talking to you soon. Alright brother, thanks. Bye. Later.

So, oh man, I just love him a lot. In closing,

I just want to mention a couple things. One, as a reminder we have ReformCon 22

I know it's always a mouthful to say it. 2022 coming up. Hopefully we'll be getting a lot of stuff up on the site soon.

Right now it's pretty basic but we're going to be releasing a lot of stuff. Keep that in mind everyone.

That's the end of May. I believe it's May 19th to 21st. So be waiting for that.

And then also I want to remind everyone it's only two weeks away now. We're going to be in Louisiana December 3rd through December 4th in Pollock, Louisiana.

We're going to have first an abortion now weekend. So Friday we'll be there. It's free.

So if you're anywhere close, please come check it out. We'll be there starting at 11 o 'clock pretty much the rest of the day.

So myself, Pastor Jeff, Zach Morgan, and Zach Conover will be speaking and then

Saturday is Founders Promise Life and Liberty Academy hosted by our good friend

Zach Lautenschlager. That you have to sign up for but please come check it out if you're in the area.

Again that's December 3rd starting at 11 o 'clock. You can go to on our

End Abortion Now page. There's an event thing there for that. And as always thank you everyone for your support for End Abortion Now.

Thank you for your support for Apologia Radio and Apologia Studios and all of our podcasts we can't do without you.

Joy? This was fun. Yeah it was fun. Very nice. I always like talking about music.

Oh yeah. It's kind of our MO when Jeff's not here. It's kind of our opportunity to do that.

Yeah. People appreciate it. Some people don't. I know. Some people do.

Some people are just in the chat talking about whatever. So thank you again everyone.

Like I said this song we're ending with is called Surviving the Game. This is the first single they released from the new album