Exposing False Attacks Upon the Trinity

Well, greetings. Welcome to The Dividing Line. We hope we're working. Evidently, we had, it's been a weird morning, a day here in Phoenix. Evidently, we had power outages here at the office and computers shut down and did so inappropriately and trashed programs and everything else.

And we weren't going to do a program day anyways, but sort of providential that we did or we may have had, well, we just had the same problems, I guess, next week once we started to try to webcast. So we're starting a little late.

I'm not sure how long we're going to go. I've just got a couple of videos to look at and sort of a controversy erupted today. So I said, hey, if you're going to be in, I'm going to come in. One of the thing you, just real quickly, if you see me doing something strange with my right hand, I'll explain briefly why.

People think this is really weird, but I got up at 1 .30 this morning and left my house by 2 a .m. I wanted to do a Sentry. A Sentry is a 100-mile ride. And I try to do a Sentry normally about once a month, maybe once every two months, depends.

I mean, I did two 120-mile rides just last month in Colorado. That's something different. And if you live in Phoenix, it's, you know, depending on how much climbing you do, it's five and a half, six hours.

So you've got to get back before the sun comes up, blah, blah, blah. When I left, everything was clear. Didn't stay clear. Ended up, thank you, Josh. My son rescued me yet once again, the second time he's done this.

Hey, son, I'm hiding under a bridge. And Noah's Ark just floated by. And so could you, could you give me a ride? Anyway, before that happened, yet once again, I encountered one of God's wonderful living creatures called a bee.

Remember when it hit me in the face just a few months ago and my whole eye puffed up? Well, evidently I get, this one, I don't know how he got on my hand. I really, especially where he was. But this is a, this is a normal hand, you know, it's got veins and stuff like that.

This is a really freaky, all really super puffy hand. And it hurts. It is so swollen up that it just hurts. And so if you see me putting a little ice on it, don't worry, please not, we don't need all the home remedies.

Well, if you take three teaspoons of this and add it to some oatmeal and cook it under a full moon, don't need all that stuff. It's got Benadryl all over it. I'm icing it. And to be honest with you, it feels best when I'm like this.

Sort of like, hello? Hello? You're charismatic on us, aren't you? Yeah, either charismatic or I'm just asking a question. Do I need to actually show my face on camera just so we can quell any possible rumors that actually you hit me and it wasn't a bee?

Oh, no, I don't, you know, I know no one would ever have thought of that. You know what, the way things are lately, somebody would have thought about it. No, I don't think so. I don't think so. So it was a bee, folks.

It was a real bee. Anyway, man, this guy, as soon as he hit me, that was the most painful sting I've ever had in my life. I don't, I don't know why. But he was not happy with me. He was very unhappy. And as soon as I took my glove off later, I'm like, oh, I thought I'd have 24 hours like I did with like this.

You never did mullet. No, no, that was never. There are people in Prescott that still have mullets. No. Yeah, yes. Yes, there are. No, I don't. You know, that's true. Yeah. Cowboy hats, not mullets. Anyway, that was not Bill Ray's kind of town.

No, whatever you say. Anyway, here's the reason we're doing a program today. Two different people in ministry contacted me today and said, did you see this? And I think this needs to be responded to. And given that it's, it is something we've addressed many, many, many times before, you might say, well, but it is an issue that is extremely important.

It also will give me an opportunity because there's actually two videos to once again, illustrate the fact that Yaya Snow, whom we would never recognize if I ran into him at a debate because he evidently never shows his face.

This program right now in the hopes that he may eventually be able to find something to string together, to create some kind of argument based upon creating division. I've yet to see any evidence of Yaya Snow actually seeking to increase understanding between Christians and Muslims.

I've never seen that. Not once. And here you've got a good example of this. My assumption is the first video came actually from a webinar type thing that I'm actually going to be doing tomorrow morning.

Sort of worldwide thing that Jonathan McClatchy is involved with. I'm going to be talking about papyri, Greek New Testament papyri, but I'm assuming this was from one of those because, well, you'll see.

And fundamentally, the purpose of the video is to say, well, Christians can't even tell whether the belief in the Trinity is necessary for salvation. We've addressed this many times before. It's funny, given the almost exhaustive library, ouch, exhaustive library of video clips that Yaya has that he didn't pull up where I've addressed this before because, well, you see, the problem is the way I've addressed this before would ruin his narrative because it would not allow for this, well, Christians can't even tell.

I mean, this is something that was made up later. It wouldn't allow for that because it actually recognizes that the simplistic form of the question is too simplistic. That is, I've said many, many times on this program in print that most evangelicals are by default modalists, but they are so out of ignorance, not conviction.

They are so because of the entertainment culture in Western Christianity, which I think the change in the West will probably get rid of the entertainment culture of Christianity. I suppose that's a good thing.

But because of how that has been, most evangelicals have never heard either a meaningful sermon on the Trinity or a decent series of Bible studies. I mean, even when classes are offered in many churches, you know, one of my saddest memories, honestly, of my youth was, so I was in youth choir at a very large Baptist church and my dad was, I think you've probably heard this story before, my dad was asked to teach a Christian doctrines class.

And those classes were at the same time as youth choir practice. And so I actually asked to get out to at least go say hi to my dad at the class and then come back. And I remember walking into that room and there he sat and he had all his little handouts.

There was nobody there because there were so many other classes. Let's go to something on prophecies. Go to something that's exciting. And, you know, I've had the same experience there. I remember very clearly, we scheduled a seminar in the New World Translation of Jehovah's Witnesses once down at, was it 47, 47 North 16th Street?

Was that the? Yeah. Huh? Suite 106. Well, we moved. We were in two different suites. Remember? Right. But then there was that, there was the seminar room down and we used the seminar room. And, you know, I had all my stuff put together and I went down there at seven, you know, before seven o 'clock and 6 .55, seven o 'clock, 7 .05 by about 7 .15.

I'm like, time to go home. You know, nobody showed up. So things like that happen. Point being that there are a lot of people who out of ignorance and I'm not, I'm not saying that they are not to be held responsible for this, but out of ignorance, things like that hold incorrect views regarding the doctrine of the Trinity.

There is a vast difference between being ignorant of the truth and therefore having errant ideas because on one level, that's all of us. On one level, when you talk about, well, think about, think about the current situation with the eternal functional subordination debate.

There are good godly men on both sides of this debate and yet both sides sort of feel like the other side, if you took their viewpoint to its final conclusion, would cause problems. This is the highest revelation of God's being and as such, there are questions that press our limited understanding as finite creatures.

And again, this is one of the problems I have when someone like Yaya Snow addresses stuff like this, where there's, there's no interest in accurate representation, there's no interest in actually expanding understanding.

It's, it's all you know, a stalker-ish type thing over against serious Muslim apologists or serious Muslim thinkers who might actually want to know what we believe and understand what we believe. Because this is an area where there needs to be, where the only serious conversation is going to be conversations being undertaken by people who recognize that God's self-revelation needs to be taken with a tremendous amount of respect and that we as human beings are fleas following the small amount of light that has been provided.

And for us to sit around like we are the, we're the judges of God and things like that, just, this is an area where there has to be a tremendous amount of humility. Anyway, there's a vast difference between ignorance and knowing rejection.

And whenever anybody asks, is knowledge of the Trinity necessary for salvation? Do you have to be a Trinitarian to be saved? See, there's, there's actually subtle differences between each one of these things.

And my response has always been to place it in the only, in the only context it can be placed in. And that is recognition that there are certain definitional truths that cannot be compromised, but our knowledge of those definitional truths will always be growing.

So how do you put those two things together? Well, it seems pretty obvious to me that a believing Christian will want to be subject to God's revelation in his own word. And a believing Christian will therefore not reject what God's word reveals.

And so the answer is yes and no. That's not an equivocation. It depends on what the context is. If a person rejects the doctrine of the Trinity, specifically identifies the Holy Spirit as God's impersonal active force, specifically teaches that Jesus is Michael the Archangel, or one God amongst many gods, or just a mere prophet, you know, that's just a few of the religions out there that we could, we could address.

These are specific knowing rejections of biblical teachings. And at that point, you then raise the issue, Paul warned us, false Christ can't save. He was worried that people might even follow after a false Christ.

Well, there'll be many false Christs, but if it's a false Christ, that's a Christ that does not bring you salvation. Michael the Archangel didn't die upon the cross for anyone. And at the same time, on the other side of the spectrum, you have the rationalist that says, well, you have to have perfection of theology.

You have to have a perfect theological understanding, normally defined by their theological understanding, but you need to have a perfect theological understanding. And so that's why, you know, there's some folks that seem to, I haven't seen anybody who's quite gone this far yet, but would say that in the EFS thing, someone on the other side is actually not a believer.

They're actually a formal heretic, and that their heresy is damnable. It actually brings condemnation for eternity. And hence, the question always has to assume that you have some knowledge of the person you're talking about.

When you say, is knowledge of the Trinity necessary for the salvation? You have to say, of such and such a person, because you have to ask, what do they know? What is their situation? Are they a person in ignorance?

Are they a person with knowledge? Are they simply apathetic about the truth? That's never a good thing. There are all sorts of issues that, if you're actually serious, you're just not using it as a club or something like that, that you have to address.

And so that issue of willful rejection of divine truth, it's been explained to you, here it is, here's the teaching, here's the consistent testimony of Scripture, and you reject that. And as, of course, I've also said, the gospel is Trinitarian.

It finds its origin in the Father, its accomplishment in the Son, its application in the Spirit. I can't imagine how anyone can have a balanced, full-orbed understanding of the gospel without an understanding of who the God is that has glorified himself in the gospel.

And in fact, I would say that in this instance, we have another example where, if you're God-centered, then your gospel will end up being balanced, because you'll see it as what the triune God has done to bring about his own glory.

Whereas, if you're man-centered, the actual beautiful balance of the persons of the Trinity will be lost in you. And it's interesting, the second video, we're going to look at another Yahya Snow production, I've got to come up with a term for this, another one of Yahya's failed attempts to create contradiction, or just, you know, Yahya demonstrates his ignorance yet once again, something along those lines, is exactly this.

It's trying to create a contradiction between Nabeel and Jeff Durbin, and it's based upon a misrepresentation, could be a misunderstanding or just misrepresentation with, you know, with Yahya. You know, someone who has manipulated so many hours of Christian teaching and still doesn't get it, sort of hard to give the benefit of the doubt to someone like that, really is.

So maybe it's just a purposeful misrepresentation, but we'll leave that to the one who knows all things. Another Yahya Snow job. Okay, that one came from Rich, and I saw it in channel there. So another Yahya Snow job, there you go.

I think that's good. That's good. All right. So with all of that said, we are going to test the limits of our technology. Here is what started all of this. A question from the webinar, I think it was last week, I'm not sure.

Let's take a look at it and respond to it.

You know, I don't know. I don't know the answer to that.

That's Mike Licona, by the way. At least he's extended the time that the text...

Yeah, Yahya wants to know whether Christians have to believe the Trinity in order to be a Christian.

That's a good question. You know, I think it's something of which, you know, I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. I do think, I mean, I'm a Trinitarian, I do believe the Trinity. But I think the arguments for the deity of Jesus are stronger than the arguments that we have for the Holy Spirit being deity.

I'm not saying that we don't have arguments for the Holy Spirit being deity. I'm just saying there's more and stronger arguments for Jesus being deity. And I do think one has to believe that Jesus is deity in order to be a Christian.

So whether you have to be a Trinitarian, I don't know. But I do think you have to believe that Jesus is deity.

Okay, now, that's... I don't know if Dr. Licona was just... There does seem to be within a certain apologetic methodology the idea of the minimalist approach. Make your target small. But first of all, I've been asked this question many, many times, and I answer it the same way.

And I would think this would be a question that is asked regularly. And hence, the issues that I brought up, I would think would sort of have to be brought up. So there was nothing there about what the person knows, willful rejection.

Instead, you had... There you had sort of the idea that, well, you know, the arguments for the deity of Christ, they're very clear. We need to accept those. But, you know, the arguments for the Holy Spirit, is that the only basis we have for the Trinity?

I mean, the fact that you have one God and you have three divine persons that are revealed, the third leg of the biblical evidence of the doctrine of the Trinity is the equality and deity of the persons.

And there's no question, in light of the Bible's own teaching, that the Spirit takes the things of Jesus and not of his own. He's not pointing people to himself. It makes perfect sense that there is much less discussion of the third person of the Trinity, because he's the one who indwells us, and it is his role to apply the gospel in the lives of his elect people, and to give guidance to them, and to point them to Jesus.

That's the way things are right now. There is going to be a balance in eternity once the work of redemption is completed. It seems to be what Paul's referring to in 1 Corinthians chapter 15. But for now, you have the emphasis upon the Son, because we are united with him.

Our union with the Triune God is through the God-Man, and so that's why the focus is upon the God-Man. So, I just didn't follow what was going on there. I would like to think, I don't know, that Dr. Lycona would say that if you know the truth about what the Bible teaches on this subject and reject it, that this would indicate that you are not under the lordship of Christ.

But I don't know. I just really don't know. So, we press on. Pastor John MacArthur.

Has a different answer. Well, of course he will. All right, I'm going to switch topics here, and let's talk about the Trinity. I've got actually two related questions to ask you about the Trinity. Why is understanding and believing in the Trinity so crucial?

And is this issue important enough to stand for at the cost of Christian unity? Do we need to make this a fundamental doctrine where we refuse to recognize as genuine believers people who don't accept the.

Trinity? Absolutely. If you don't believe in the Trinity, then you don't believe in the true God, and you don't believe in the true Christ, and you don't believe in the true Holy Spirit.

I mean, this is the nature of God. So, there's And

What is your doctrinal position? Are you a Reformed Baptist, or are you a...

Okay, now, this is one of the Hebrew Israelites that called in, and it was really only toward.

The end here. Okay, based on what the Church Fathers...

No, based on the fact that the New Testament itself says, if you have a Jesus other than the true Jesus, there's no salvation in him. So, if you have a Jesus who's a Michael the archangel, it's something that's absolutely definitionally different than if you recognize the biblical teaching concerning the deity of Christ.

Are you...which is, interestingly enough, what I just got done saying just only a few weeks ago. That Apologist teaches the Trinity belief is a must for salvation. Now, notice again, this is...we all...I think it's just time we start recognizing what Yahya Snow does, is, again, have I...I've addressed this before.

I've addressed this a number of times, and I've talked about the ignorance issue and the purposeful rebellion. He doesn't do those. He just grabs one of these things, I mean, because it was just recent.

And what he's trying to do is he's trying to create something. Well, these people are all just indiscreet. Can you imagine if we spent time doing this with all the Muslim apologists, how easy it would be to produce videos like this?

I just sort of feel sorry for anybody who spends their life doing this. I mean, I can obviously outrun Yahya Snow on a bike, there's no question about that, and probably have much wider, much, much wider reading interests than Yahya does.

I just can't imagine spending my life listening to Muslim apologists and then trying to put stuff like this together, because it'd be so easy to create...because there are real contradictions between them.

But on this issue, if you really listen carefully, other than Mike Licona's I don't know, we're actually saying something very similar. Listen to the next one. This apologist doesn't seem to think so.

He's taken seriously. Must one believe in the Trinity to be saved? Okay, Robert Bowman. Well, not exactly. Well, not exactly. And I maintain that we are not saved by passing a theology exam. Some of you are breathing sighs of relief right now.

However, disbelief in the Trinity is generally a symptom that something's wrong. Particularly if you hold to an anti-Trinitarian theology, there is evidence that something is wrong. You've been deceived, you don't really understand what you're doing when you pray, and all other kinds of things can be at fault there.

So I think he's.

Saying what I'm saying, because he's talking about if you reject these things, if you have a belief in a false Jesus, and so on and so forth, this is indicative of something wrong in your spiritual condition.

So he actually raises the issue of error and falsehood, and is basically saying it's not a matter of passing a theology test. It's not like, well, until you get it exactly right, then you're getting closer and closer.

No. The issue is willingness to be in submission to God's truth. And of course, what does the scripture say? No one can say that Jesus is Lord, except by the Holy Spirit. So that doesn't mean that people can't mouth the effect, the words, but they cannot have the effect of the words, because that's spiritually done by the Holy Spirit of God.

So I would imagine that Dr. Bowman would agree with what I said in making the distinction between ignorance and purposeful rebellion, and knowingly accepting and embracing a falsehood, whether it be oneness or subordinationism or.

Polytheism or any of these others. But the point here is that the Trinity is simply a theological safeguard to make sure the church keeps teaching the truth about Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. So when people say, oh, I don't think we should worship Jesus Christ, at least not the way we worship God the Father, red alert, okay?

We've got a problem. The Trinity tells us there's a problem. So it's a theological construct. Yes, the word Trinity isn't in the Bible. You don't have to believe that word is the best word. But if you're rejecting the doctrine of the Trinity for something that's not biblical, that's a symptom of something seriously wrong.

Now notice what he said. If you're rejecting the doctrine of the Trinity for something else, which is what I was saying. So I've laid that out, and hopefully you've seen that and understand where I'm coming from in regards to the necessity of making the distinction between ignorance and willful rejection.

Now, you can be ignorant and also willfully reject. So I wanted to play the video that Marcus J. Rogers put up yesterday on Facebook. I got a couple Twitter items telling me yesterday about this video.

I started watching it at one point, and I looked around to try to find some way that I could save it. Because what I do is I'll see these things, and I will grab them and throw them in Dropbox so that it's here on my system when I come in, and then I can queue it up.

That's how we got most of these videos on here and stuff like that. It was a Facebook video, and I was in a hurry. I couldn't figure out how to grab it, how to save it, pull it down, whatever. But I figured, well, if worst comes to worst, I can just bring the URL up again and play it.

Well, I can't. It's gone. We had a bunch of folks while Rich was working on the technical stuff. We had a bunch of folks looking around, and we found a bunch of links, and nothing would work. I think it's just been deleted, I guess.

I don't know. Why? I don't know. Jeff and the guys at Apologia played it audio-wise and responded to it yesterday on the program, so I guess that's all we're going to be able to do. Here's a young man, Marcus Rogers, and I had responded to a video he had done quite some time ago, pushing a oneness perspective.

As zealous as the young man is, he is startlingly ignorant. It's that kind of ignorance that pretends to be spiritual. The Holy Spirit tells me this. The Holy Spirit tells me that. The Holy Spirit told me to go to this.

And what I listened to yesterday, he's talking about revelations. Look at the book of revelations. I just want to go to the book of revelations. It's singular. You should not add to anything, and the Trinity is not in the Bible, so you're adding.

Of course, the instant response of everybody is, and the word Bible's not in the Bible either, and so that's a really lame argument. And just very clearly, he's not done any reading. He's not done any in-depth thought.

He's not meaningfully interacted with anybody on any of these issues, and so there you have a combination of rank ignorance combined with a super spirituality that allows you, because I remember right at the beginning, and there was somebody else.

Who was it? It was, I don't understand the nick here, but someone else online, yeah, here we go, did an interaction with the video and responded to it, and so I was listening to that, and I was reminded of some of the things I had seen when I watched the beginning of it, and that was, well, you know, he's so much older than I am, so I just don't think he'd have ears to hear.

Well, you can be so much younger than someone and not have ears to hear. The question is, who can accurately represent the other one? Who's listening to what the other one says? I can assure Mr. Rogers that I've heard every objection that he has, and I can assure Mr. Rogers he has not heard every response that I would give to him by any stretch of the imagination.

So there you can have a combination, and I would illustrate it for you, but I can't because the video has, for some reason, vanished into thin air. So there we go. I'm now sending you the right one. I'm going to put it up here.

So let's have the other example that I was able to put together, and do you have any thoughts on oneness Pentecostals who believe the only options are oneness or tritheism? Well, that's the standard oneness argument is either you believe in three gods or one.

That's not just the oneness guys. I'm reading something from Twitter. That's not just oneness guys. One of the key issues in doing Apologetics and Doctrine and Trinity is the assumption of Unitarianism on the part of pretty much everybody.

The Muslims do it. The Jehovah's Witnesses do it. The oneness Pentecostals do it. They all assume Unitarianism to prove Unitarianism, and one of the toughest things for a Christian to be able to do is to know your faith well enough to recognize the assumption of Unitarianism and challenge it when it happens because it becomes very circular, and you just won't ever get anywhere if you don't challenge the assumption of Unitarianism, and it's not just the oneness guys that do that.

The Jehovah's Witnesses do that. Every time they see the name Jehovah, they just assume Jehovah's Unitarian. The Muslims, of course, do that because the whole modern concept of Tawhid is tied together, not just with monotheism, but with Unitarian monotheism.

That's definitely a subject we've addressed a number of times before. So I've been told, I guess the fellow's name, Drew, who did the interaction, Drew has the video. I hope he saved it. If he has, I will get him to pass it on.

So maybe we'll get to review the Rogers video next time around unless Rich upgrades to the next great version of our software and nothing will ever, ever work again. This could be... Hey now, my duct tape and bailing wire have not failed you yet.

Not yet, but you said you said that before the next program, you were going to the next version. Oh yeah. Yeah. I don't like this one at all. So yeah, definitely. Definitely. And you can look at me and guarantee that it's good.

Well, if I have to get some chewing gum out, I'll do that too. Yes. Okay. All right. So here is the other video, another ya-ya snow job here. Thank you very much. That was very good. I am impressed. Who created the world?

Jeff Durbin versus Nabeel Qureshi. Trinity confusion. See the idea? It says Trinity confusion. No, it is made up. And if there is any confusion, it's in ya-ya's mind, but I don't think it's in ya-ya's mind.

I think he's just trying to... I think he knows he can get away with this. He's not going to get away with us. If you know the Trinity, you'll catch him. But he recognizes a lot of people. When you're shooting for the lower end of the spectrum, then you can get away with this.

And that's unfortunately what he's doing. Here's the alleged confusion, and it's actually misrepresentation. And I'm going to move this down here. And here we go. Are you guys ready to go? How the confusing Trinity doctrine appears to lead two Christian scholars to contradict your beliefs on who created the world.

So Nabeel and Jeff, congratulations. You are world-class Christian scholars now. I think you've been leaving it a little bit up a little bit too long. There you go. Now, when God makes us, he takes a look.

The Father takes a look at the Son. And out of an overflow of love that the Father has for the Son, he decides to populate this world with people who were made in the image of the Son. Are you seeing this?

He loves the Son so much that he makes the world in the image of his Son. He makes all of us in the image of his Son. He makes a bunch of us replicas of the Son. And we're not God, but we're in his image.

About Jesus, moving to verse three. Okay, now, now, hold on. So he takes a clip from Nabeel. I found that interesting. That's not how I'd say it. That's not how I'd say it. You know why? Because when we talk about mankind created in the image of God, all of mankind is created in the image of God.

Only believers are then conformed in the process of sanctification to the image of the Son. So in other words, the image of God is not a physical thing. It is our spiritual ability to enter into communion with God, to enter into communion with others in our worship of God.

It is found in both male and female, despite what some of the monks in the Middle Ages came up with after many years in their cells alone. And it separates us from the created order in a very special way.

That is something that all human beings, that is the connecting point. That is the point of contact with the world, with anyone, is they are created in the image of God. No matter how spoiled, no matter how defaced that image is, that's the contact point.

There's no neutral contact point, never has been, never will be. The contact point apologetically, evangelistically, is that men are created in the image of God. But to be conformed to the image of the Son, that is something that only the elect of God indwelt by the Holy Spirit of God experience.

And so, I would not express it the way it indwelt it. Problem is, I have no earthly idea where that talk came from. I don't know what came before it. I don't know what comes after it. I don't know what the text is.

Nothing. All you get is just this little thing where he says, well, the Father created us. Well, yeah, yeah, guess what? And I basic Trinitarian text, if you pick up the Forgotten Trinity, then you will know that one of the evidences that is presented therein is the fact that there are so many divine actions where Father, Son, and Spirit are seen working together.

Creation, Father, the Son, Colossians 1, Hebrews 1. The Spirit is there in creation in Genesis 1. The resurrection, the Father raises the Son. The Son has power within Himself. The Spirit raises the Son.

So many places, so many things. This is one of the evidences of the Doctrine and Trinity. So, when you try to create a contradiction where you find Jeff Durbin and Nabeel Qureshi talking about creation and, oh, the Father created.

Oh, the Son creates. Contradiction. No, that is either gross ignorance on your part, which is next to inexcusable, given how much you've heard, or gross misrepresentation on your part. One of the two, one of the two, but I jumped ahead of myself there.

And notice, by the way, Jeff, I'm sure Jeff's going to see this, but Jeff, what do you have on your finger in this picture? Do you see that? It looks like he's got one of those things that you used to use when you were doing filing and stuff.

Rubber thing on his, it could be a Band-Aid, a very bright blue Band-Aid, a skinny jeans Band-Aid, a skinny hipster, skinny jeans, hipster Band-Aid. Clearly, it's some Band-Aid of some kind that he got from one of the kids because he probably cut himself and didn't have one, but moms have got them all the time.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Anyway, but do you notice, did you notice how Nabeel was dressed? I mean, he was looking pretty cool. He was looking, and here's poor Jeff. And, though that's not a bad shirt.

That's a little fancier than normal for Jeff, actually. That's Sunday go to meeting right there, but there are drums in the background. Oh, oh, really? Really? So, anyway, sorry, Jeff, just had to point that out.

In the beginning with God, he repeats himself and he says that what? Jesus created all things and without him, nothing came into being that came into being. Jesus is described in ways that cannot be misinterpreted.

You must just destroy the text.

One of them says Jesus created the world, while the other says the Father did. And Trinitarians believe both because we're not Unitarians, which you're assuming. Here's a good example of exactly what I just said.

Muslims assume Unitarianism. Who created the world? Yahweh did. Does the Bible identify the Father as Yahweh? Sure does. Yahweh lays our sins upon the Messiah, Isaiah 53. Does the Bible identify Jesus as Yahweh?

Sure does. Hebrews chapter one, verses 10 through 12, direct quotation, Psalm 102, 25 to 27, purposeful citation. Oh, Jeff just texted me. Jeff did text me. I sliced my finger on a nail down to the bone.

There it was. And one of the kids bandaged. So he's actually watching live and has got texted. So hey, we can get the information right in there. Does the Bible identify Jesus as Yahweh? Certainly does.

Is the Spirit the Spirit of Yahweh? Certainly is. You just don't get it or you're just misrepresenting it and you're hoping that your audience, because see, the real danger here is the famous black page.

The famous black page. Now, there's only a few people in this audience who know what I'm talking about. And I don't, I don't actually have it in here because I don't keep my Jehovah's Witness stuff in here.

But many, many, many moons ago, the Jehovah's Witnesses had the Life Everlasting on Paradise Earth book. When Jehovah's Witnesses do Bible studies, they're actually not studying the Bible. They're studying a Watchtower book about the Bible.

And for many years, the primary book that is this red book, they had a big print version and a regular size version of it. And the infamous black page, there was a page where the print was reversed, so the print was in white and the background was in black, and there's a picture of Jesus.

And it contained purposeful, clear misrepresentations of the doctrine of the Trinity. And it did so within a few pages of an accurate representation of the doctrine of the Trinity. And the point was that it was an obvious action on their part to create the idea that the doctrine of the Trinity is self-contradictory.