Should a Groom Give HIs Bride Whatever She Wants on Her Wedding Day?

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April 22, 2024

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00:00: Why then is it that so many, and you kind of touched on this, but I wanted to hear you talk about it a little more.
00:06: Why then is it that so many people are totally okay? Like see, zero issues with the first piece of advice.
00:16: You know, groom, you know, stand here if your wife tells you, or if your bride tells you to stand there.
00:22: Say what she tells you to say. Wear what she tells you to wear. But then when he gives the opposite advice, it's just total,
00:30: I mean, yeah, just lighting your hair on fire kind of response. Warning, the following message may be offensive to some audiences.
00:42: These audiences may include, but are not limited to, professing Christians who never read their Bible, sissies, sodomites, men with man buns, those who approve of men with man buns, man bun enablers, white knights for men with man buns, homemakers who have finished
00:50: Netflix but don't know how to meal plan, and people who refer to their pets as fur babies. Viewer discretion is advised. People are tired of hearing nothing but doom and despair on the radio.
01:07: Found in Christ alone. Hope of salvation, any hope of heaven.
01:17: The issue is that humanity is in sin, and the wrath of almighty
01:23: God is hanging over our head. They will hear his words, they will not act upon them, and when the floods of divine judgment, when the fires of wrath come, they will be consumed and they will perish.
01:38: God wrapped himself in flesh, condescended and became a man, died on the cross for sin, was resurrected on the third day, has ascended to the right hand of the
01:51: Father, where he sits now to make intercession for us. Jesus is saying there is a group of people who will hear his words, they will act upon them, and when the floods of divine judgment come in that final day, their house will stand.
02:07: Welcome to Bible Bash, where we aim to equip the saints for the works of ministry by answering the questions you're not allowed to ask.
02:14: We're your host, Harrison Kerrigan, Pastor Tim Mullett, and today we'll answer the age -old question, should a groom give his bride whatever she wants on her wedding day?
02:25: Now, the reason we're doing this episode is because there is a video that came out this week at some point, a few days of when we were recording this, where a pastor, he was addressing his congregation right at the beginning of their church gathering.
02:43: He's about to give the message, but he's recapping a sort of like a marriage retreat that the church had been putting on that ended the day before.
02:53: And he decided to give his congregation one nugget of advice from this marriage retreat so that the people that missed out on it could still have something to take away.
03:07: And so, essentially, he starts this advice by addressing the men and telling the men, hey, if you want to start your marriage off in the best way possible, when it comes to the wedding day, you need to do everything your bride asks you to do or really tells you to do.
03:33: And he says, you need to stand where she tells you to stand, you need to wear what she tells you to wear, you need to say what she tells you to say, you need to do what she tells you to do.
03:45: And the crowd just erupts into applause and laughter and people yelling and amening and all this stuff.
03:55: And the pastor's like, hey, I knew I was gonna get, I knew I was gonna get a positive reaction out of you guys for that one, but he's like, let's see if you're still clapping for me in a minute after I give you the second half of the advice.
04:09: And his justification for the wife was, hey, look, she's been planning this her whole life.
04:16: She's been looking forward to her wedding day her entire life. And so she's thought about all of these different things that she wants.
04:23: And so as the groom, you should want to give her those things to the best of your ability.
04:30: And so then he moves on to, he addresses the women in the room and he says, now women, you guys have been planning for your wedding day your entire life.
04:43: And you've been thinking about it and thinking about everything that you might want that day to be.
04:50: For the men, they've been thinking about the wedding night their entire life and what it might look like and what they would want out of a wedding night.
05:03: So women, you need to stand where he tells you to stand.
05:08: You need to wear what he tells you to wear. You need to do what he tells you to do.
05:15: And the crowd, I think watching the video, they seemed fairly receptive to what he was saying.
05:21: I mean, a lot of people were laughing, there was clapping. There's probably not as much as when he was addressing the men, but there's still a significant amount,
05:30: I would say. It seemed like it was fairly well -received at his church. And now it was not as well -received when the video went online and people got their hands on it.
05:43: And there are a lot of people online who essentially were, they were, to put it lightly, they were a little upset at what he was saying to the women, this pastor.
05:59: And so there's a big sort of conflict that came out online over this kind of video where Christians that are probably a lot more in line with what we think about the
06:13: Bible and our views on various things, they were coming out and saying, hey, look, number one, it seems like this is kind of being put out as a bit of a tongue -in -cheek kind of joke in certain ways.
06:26: But then even if it's not, what's the problem here? I mean, it seems like, if anything, there's kind of a double standard going on.
06:34: And then there are people on the other side who are saying, hey, this is giving us, people who we might not necessarily tend to agree with on a lot of things theologically, they were coming along and they were saying, hey, this is giving us insight into this man's sexual ethic, apparently.
06:52: And so they were very upset with it because they were saying that this is essentially how people are groomed into certain things.
07:02: This is how abuse spreads within the church and all this stuff. And Tim's laughing at it.
07:07: He just, you know, abuse and all that stuff, he just, you know, he just laughs at it.
07:15: But anyway, so that was their - Abuse is no joking matter. Yeah, it's no joking matter,
07:21: Tim. You need to cut that out or this video is gonna come out and they're gonna do the same thing to us. So that's sort of the context behind this episode.
07:31: And so we thought, well, hey, maybe it'd be a good thing to, I'm sure, I mean, this is a, Tim, wouldn't you say it's a pretty, it's pretty common to hear people say, hey, look, the woman, you know, the bride, she's been thinking about her wedding day her entire life.
07:46: This is her day. It's not y 'all's day, it's her day. And, you know, so you just need to do whatever she wants, basically.
07:53: I mean, isn't that a pretty common, I've heard that over and over again, multiple times, haven't you?
08:00: Sure. I mean, I wanna start out by saying I stand against abuse in all forms and abuse is not a laughing matter.
08:05: And I am deeply sorry and apologize for stickering. That was very brave of you,
08:15: Tim. I was laughing off screen.
08:20: I was trying to hide it, but - And humble. It was humble, too. I was very humble. Okay, all right, all right.
08:30: We've established you've bravely stood against abuse in all of its forms and I appreciate that,
08:37: Tim. All right, moving on to, you know, moving on to the topic at hand.
08:44: Now that we've established we're against abuse in all its forms. Yeah, so this is one of those things that, it's so common to hear that this is the bride's day.
08:56: This is not y 'all's day, it's the bride's day. She's been thinking about this. She's been planning it her whole life.
09:03: You just need to do whatever she wants. I mean, and I think there, from my perspective,
09:09: I understand what's being said in a certain way, but then in the context of this kind of situation where you have essentially you have like the, hey, look, this is what the girl has been looking forward to her whole life.
09:28: This is what the guy's been looking forward to her whole life. Here's an opportunity to, if we're trying to put the pastor in the best light possible, it seems to me like he's essentially encouraging his congregation to consider the other person more significant than yourself in a lot of ways.
09:47: But then when you only have a problem with one of the halves of that advice, it seems like you're demonstrating a bit of a double standard, right,
09:59: Tim? Sure, I mean, as advice goes,
10:05: I mean, because I am actually able to generalize when you tell me advice along those lines,
10:12: I don't necessarily get myself bent out of shape. I don't think I need to light my beard on fire and come up with every exception possible for either one of those scenarios.
10:22: So just taking it as a statement of general truth, men have significantly more, 10 times more testosterone than women.
10:31: I mean, it may be debatable at this point. What's all the things that - Maybe that number's dipped. No, but women have significantly more estrogen than men.
10:41: Men and women are different. They desire different things. In a lot of ways, this is just kind of a basic fact of biology.
10:48: I mean, men basically think about sex 100 times. I mean, particularly young men think about sex maybe 1 ,000 times a day or something along those lines.
10:57: And a lot of that is just they're influenced by their hormones, man, that God gave them. So it just is what it is.
11:04: Like men and women are different. Women desire from a very young age to be beautiful because they know that God has made them beautiful.
11:16: A woman is the glory of a man. So you have a day, like a wedding day, it's just meant to put the bride on display, right?
11:23: She is presented as a gift to her husband and she wants everything about that presentation to look a specific way that she has figured out in her mind.
11:34: So, I mean, I think largely, when you think about it along those lines, there certainly isn't anything wrong with acknowledging those basic biological differences and how they show up in something like a wedding.
11:50: For most men, they haven't spent their whole life thinking about the wedding day.
11:56: They have spent most of their life thinking about the wedding night. It's just the way it is.
12:02: So then part of what's happening is that as a result of egalitarianism, what's happened is that people don't see these differences anymore and you're not really allowed to acknowledge them.
12:14: And what the world has kind of done is it's gone to war against what makes a man distinctly masculine, right?
12:21: So the whole idea of what makes men men, like the things that are different about them than women, those are seen as problems to fix, right?
12:31: So for some strange, which at a certain point, it gets pretty irrational. So I mean, you think about a topic like this, like a woman has spent her whole life fantasizing about her wedding day and about the event and the presentation and how she looks and everything else, but then you're simultaneously told that she's not made to be visually pleasing to a man at all, right?
12:54: That she's not made for beauty and that she doesn't exist solely for the male gaze and all that.
13:01: And it's like, well, what was all this presentation about? What are we doing, right? So basically there's a war on masculinity, there's a war on these differences.
13:10: And so basically anything, the fact that a guy would desire sex way more than the woman is treated as a problem that needs to be fixed, that needs to be brought into some kind of balance or something along those lines.
13:22: So as a general statement, I mean, it's just obvious, like, hey, just as you said, do unto others as you'd have them do unto you.
13:32: It's really not that complicated. Now, I mean, I wouldn't phrase it the way he's phrased it for sure, but I mean, that doesn't mean that I can't acknowledge the significant element of truthfulness in what he's saying in the sense that,
13:49: I mean, obviously the wedding day is going to be way more important to the bride than it is to the groom.
13:57: And very obviously the wedding night is going to be way more important to the guy than it is to the woman.
14:04: So then, I mean, these are just obvious things. And so if you know that as a member of the opposite gender, then it would make sense that both of those shouldn't, like that everything in the whole entirety of a relationship shouldn't revolve around one gender's desires, right?
14:24: So, I mean, like there has to be some kind of give and take in the context of a marriage and context of a relationship.
14:33: And I think a lot of what's happened with the servant leader kind of movement is that you basically have, like what it means to be a husband is to basically die to every one of your desires and let your wife, like give her everything she wants in every situation without it, right?
14:53: So then like that's what it means to be a servant is to basically have a one -sided relationship that solely exists in order, like where the man adopts all the sensibilities, the desires, the wants, you know, the needs of a woman and there's no back and forth element of that at all.
15:11: You know, so then what happens is then like this kind of falls right under that line.
15:17: So like, yeah, make it, make the wedding day all about the wife because she's fantasized for that for her whole life. And then, you know what?
15:23: You're not allowed to have any desires at all, okay? Yeah, yeah. Because you solely,
15:29: I mean, you solely exist to go to work and provide and do everything your wife wants you to do in every situation, period, the end.
15:38: Like you're not allowed to have any unique preferences or desires that anyone's gonna treat with any seriousness.
15:45: And if you do, then, you know, you're probably an abuser, you know? So that's abusive and grooming and everything else.
15:52: And that's why you chuckle at all that. I guess it's like, well, that's not really, like it's more blessing than giving and receiving, but people didn't figure out how to do that.
15:59: But yeah, I certainly wouldn't word it the way he's worded it, but I understand what's being communicated and it's really not really that complicated.
16:07: In that way. Yeah, and so from your perspective then, you know, generally you would say, hey, yes,
16:13: I agree. You know, the husband, this is a perfect opportunity to consider others more significant than yourself.
16:19: Just, you know, just in general, you know, try your best to give the bride the wedding day that she wants.
16:30: Is that where you're at with that advice? I mean, give or take. I mean, you know, with the rise of the bridezilla phenomenon, you know, it isn't, you definitely add a layer of complexity on it on that end.
16:44: Like in the sense that there is such a thing as a bridezilla. I mean, the sad thing is that many women are basically filled with envy and covetousness and they go into a wedding day expecting like insane amounts of money to be put on this one day that is gonna go to waste, you know?
17:08: So part of the problem is I wanna say 10 things at once and I can't get them all out at the same time. So I'm just gonna have to try to,
17:14: I can't. I mean, so one aspect of it is there's a bridezilla phenomenon on that end of things that is like real, it's significant.
17:22: There's a lot of covetousness. There's a lot of envy that's right there that like this isn't like an out of control check, you know?
17:28: So that's one thing. You know, on the other end of the things, like a lot of the guy's fantasies that he's been developing over the course of his whole life that could be driven by porn, you know?
17:37: So like you have that on the other end to where just kind of like the blank check language, like I understand how people can get a little bit nervous with that.
17:49: But then the problem is like people are getting nervous about it for the, like if you don't get nervous on the woman's end and you only get nervous on the man's end, then that's stupid, right?
17:58: You should have some kind of impartiality there to where you say, hey, yeah, I can see it on both sides.
18:03: And if you can't see it on both side, like the problem on both sides, then there's something wrong with you. But anyways, I'm able to generalize.
18:10: I understand what's being communicated, but then they're like, that's within reason. So, I mean, that's part of it.
18:15: I think you don't wanna overturn authority structures that exist, like meaning, well, your wife is in charge or your bride -to -be is in charge of the whole thing and you just sit there and yes, dear, start your marriage off with a yes, dear thing.
18:30: So that's another part of it that is a little bit troubling about the language. But then on the other end, the husband's authority doesn't exist just to be a boss that can tell everyone what to do the whole time just for the sake of being in control or something.
18:44: I mean, I think you're in charge, you should take involvement in there.
18:50: I think husbands should care about different things than the wives do.
18:57: So, I mean, I think the kind of guy who has an excessive focus on the type of flowers that are being put in the wedding,
19:05: I would call out his man card on that one in general. I would just say, are you a woman?
19:13: Why do you care about the deck? Like if you're talking about decorations and things like that, I mean, at my own wedding,
19:19: I had more concerns about like what the pastor was going to say, what were the elements in our wedding going to be, right?
19:26: I didn't have any concern whatsoever about the decorations or things like that. And I mean,
19:33: I'm not going to like let, I wouldn't let my wife and she wouldn't want to be, dress me up as like a fruitcake or something just for the sake, so I think there's some dignity that a guy can preserve for himself.
19:46: Like if she wants him to wear a pink suit or something, you know. I mean, there are lines, you know, with these things, but I mean,
19:55: I think most guys shouldn't probably, if you're caring excessively about colors and decorations and everything else,
20:03: I'm just going to really get uncomfortable. And yeah, I just feel very awkward and embarrassed for you.
20:11: But I mean, I do think like, yeah, the theological, like this is a wedding day, the theological things that are said, the kind of things that are happening in there, you know, like a lot of couples will want to do communion, things like that at their wedding.
20:24: And I would be like, no way, like that's not happening, you know. This is a church ordinance. This is not my individual expression of whatever, you know.
20:32: So I would have more concern about that. You know, me and my pastor who married me at the time,
20:40: I had some conversations with him about what he was going to say. I was like, it's okay if you make it like, you know, more direct about male -female roles and things like that.
20:54: I don't care if you offend anyone, you know, so I mean, I think there's things like that. So I mean, I think like a blank check kind of thing on both sides, there's certainly some lines there, but I mean,
21:06: I think I get the sentiment, give or take. Yeah, I get it, you know. And I think there are obviously like different areas of interest here.
21:14: So I think that most women do care a lot more about the flowers and the outfits and the bridesmaid's dress.
21:20: And if a guy is like, you know, I got to be in charge of all that, like meaning like I got to be the one who is making all those calls.
21:28: I just say, hey man, just chill out. And you know, like she's going to do that better than you anyways, you know.
21:36: So, you know, so I don't know. There's some random thoughts, but I have more, but yeah.
21:42: Yeah, so yeah. So the general idea being, hey, yeah, it's probably better to just, you know, let, you know, just let her make those decisions, but then it's not a blank check.
21:54: And it's certainly not meant to be a, let me appease you in every way possible to start off our marriage, right?
22:02: Yeah, so a lot of couples, they fight over these kinds of things to where the woman, the woman kind of, so women can be very indecisive in these moments and a guy can really help like with decision -making with things like this.
22:14: But then a lot of times a guy just really doesn't have any like taste in any of this, in sense, in any of this.
22:20: And so then the lady can get mad at, like the wife, the bride -to -be can get mad at him for not taking more active role and putting all this pressure on her to do all this stuff.
22:29: And she, you know, she's the only one doing anything. It's like, do you really want me to pick out this stuff? You know, it's going to happen. It's just like, it's going to be bad, you know?
22:38: You know, so. Do you know what you're asking for? Have you, have you seen my dorm room?
22:45: I don't want that. Have you seen those meme? Have you seen those memes where it's like a guy living in his apartment?
22:51: It shows the picture of the guy's apartment, you know, before he gets married and then after he gets married and before it's like, you know, a
22:59: TV on the floor with an Xbox and like a lawn chair. And then it looks like a normal living room after he's gotten married.
23:10: These exist for a reason, you know? And so, I mean, like, and then the kind of guy though, I mean, that is really just excels at interior design and decorations.
23:18: At a certain point, you just get kind of like, okay, you're one of those, you know? So, I mean,
23:23: I think that there, a lot of conflict could be avoided in this kind of area by just recognizing that people have different strengths and people have different weaknesses and you don't, but I mean, at the same time, like being decisive,
23:37: I think there's ways you can lead as a guy in those kinds of scenarios, like helping like just, hey, look, they both look the same.
23:45: No one's going to tell the difference, right? We're just going to pick one, right? So that's, you know,
23:51: I think there's things like that to where like ladies can just kind of get themselves all worked up and stressed out, you know, because there's so many decisions and most women don't excel at making decisions, you know?
24:06: So, yeah, so I think as a generality, you're not, like this is a, there is kind of like a, like who is paying for this kind of element too, you know?
24:22: And you're not, she's not necessarily under your authority at this point. And like, so, you know, typically, like, like this is one of those things where the bride's family is going to pay for it anyways, right?
24:37: So just let them do what they're going to do. Like, you see what I'm saying? Like there's a traditions along those lines.
24:44: And so I think a lot of that is just like stuff that you don't need to really even concern yourself with really.
24:51: I mean, at that point and everyone needs to like, just let it go, you know? So I think there's a good element and there's a good part of it that's like that.
24:58: I would think that, you know, there's input you can have that is more helpful.
25:06: Like there's things you should concern about, concern yourself about, but decorations and all that kind of stuff is not really one of them.
25:13: I mean, not one of the main things that a guy should be caring about anyways. You know, so yeah. I mean, there's,
25:19: I guess there's a lot to say about it along those lines, but then I certainly, there's some kind of bridezilla check that needs to happen.
25:28: And that, yeah, we're not gonna spend $100 ,000 on a wedding, particularly if it's coming out of my own pocket.
25:34: You know, if your parents are paying for it, they can do whatever they want, you know, we'll accept it graciously. But you know, if I'm the one stuck having to pay for a bill, you know, it's not gonna happen, you know?
25:42: So this part of it is that I think a lot of times guys have a temptation with this topic to be so practical to the point where they can run rough shot over their wife's desire, like their bride -to -be's desires in this area too, to where they're so disgusted by all the bridezilla stuff to the point where they just like stamp out any kind of joy in the process, any kind of like, make it on the cheap as much as you possibly can, no thought put into it whatsoever to where it's just a big shabby day that is faithful or something.
26:19: And so I think guys that are more theologically minded can fall into that trap. You know, the first miracle
26:24: Jesus did was at a wedding, there was a big feast, you know? Like these were big deals back in the days, like Jesus has a category,
26:31: I mean, the Bible has a category for feasting, and the Jews would lay aside 10 % of their income every year to go to the yearly feast, like spending even significant amounts of money on these things, there's a place for that, you know?
26:46: And I mean, I think, yeah, we used to live in a culture, society that expected like the bride's parents to foot the bill kind of thing.
26:58: So, you know, it is what it is. I think when there's a lot of pressure put on a newlywed couple to have $20 ,000 in the bank or something like that to pay for the wedding of their dreams, you have to have some kind of like, hey, we have to operate under a budget, we're not gonna put this on a credit card.
27:13: You know, we're not gonna, if the responsibility falls on you, we're not gonna put this on a credit card and we're gonna live within our means and this is the poorest time we're gonna be in our life, you know?
27:24: And so, we should value getting married younger over and against like being,
27:32: I mean, for most people, I mean, it's one of those things where it's like you're not ready to throw a big expensive wedding until you've been married for 20 years or something like that, in which case it's like past time to, you know, so there's things along those lines too.
27:47: So, I mean, I think a lot of guys could chill out with these kind of things and quit being and just kind of give their wife more of a, or bride -to -be more of a, this is your domain, you exist to make the, to be beautiful, to make the world beautiful, in part, you know, that's part of why
28:04: God has designed you, put you here and this is gonna be more hospitable, better, you know, in a lot of ways if you, like if your gifts are being put on display in this event more than mine, you know?
28:18: So, my gifts are not necessarily gonna be the same as yours. And so, I mean, a lot of guys can just rob all the joy out of special occasions by virtue of just being practical and miserly, you know, and stuff like that too.
28:33: So, I don't know. So, flipping it to the other side, should the wife do whatever the husband wants on the wedding night?
28:41: Sure. With the same - But Tim, I thought you stood bravely against abuse.
28:49: Yeah, it's not abuse to say that two people have two differences. I mean, yeah,
28:55: I'm within reason, yeah, and to the extent to which, I mean, I think to the extent to which a guy doesn't have porn brain or something like that,
29:01: I mean, asking her to do things that are unnatural or whatever else, I mean, it should be a, you know,
29:08: I think it should be like, yeah,
29:13: I don't have any problem extending the same logic to the first, to the second, you know? So, but, you know,
29:20: I would make all the caveats, same caveats and same qualifications and everything else. So, I mean, I think good pre -engagement counseling, pre -marriage counseling could sort out a lot of that anyways, you know, if that makes sense.
29:35: So, meaning like the bride has made herself ready for the groom.
29:42: Like you read through the Bible and you see that women know how to, like, make these events good, right?
29:50: I perfumed my bed, says the adulterous woman, right? Right. Like you think about like the
29:57: Song of Songs and, you know, it is a picture of a person making itself ready to be, like, a bride is a gift that's presented to a groom and, you know, that climaxes in consummation, you know, that kind of thing.
30:11: So, it is what it is, you know? Like, so, I think if, like,
30:16: I do think that there is an element to just, I mean,
30:22: I guess if you take, if you take, like, you could take those words in the most awkwardly literal way imaginable and you could turn them into something that's kind of weird if you want.
30:37: But I think you understand, I think a reasonable person could understand both statements in the same kind of way if they make reasonable allowances in general, right?
30:49: So, I mean, if a wife, like, if a bride -to -be is literally saying to, you know, a husband, here's what you're allowed to say at your wedding, you know?
30:58: And here's what you're allowed, what you're supposed to do with your hands at this point in time, right?
31:05: Like, and here's, like, what you're, you know, here's the look I need you to have on your face, this specific one, let's practice, you know, and that kind of stuff.
31:12: It could get really weird really quick, right? But I don't think people necessarily take it in weird ways on the first instance, but then, like, they don't take it in a woodenly literalistic way, it's just a general kind of thing or whatever.
31:29: But I would think on the other end of things, wife should clearly follow her husband, her now husband's lead in that kind of area.
31:40: And the more that it's just, like, if there's some kind of, like, no one knows what they're gonna do at that point.
31:47: Like, you know, in the most ideal situation, neither one has ever done any of this.
31:52: So, you know, someone's gonna have to lead or both people are just gonna sit there awkwardly, not knowing what to do. So, you know, so I do think that there is, like, a real, like, she is preparing herself to be submissive and that would be, like, her first act of being, like, biblically submissive, not in some kind of weird kinky way or something like that.
32:15: But just, like, yes, I'm following my husband's lead in this marriage act in that way.
32:22: And I'm not just, like, fighting it the whole time and you have to figure out the plan I had in my own mind, you know, kind of thing that I'm not communicating.
32:31: Everything would be easier if it's just, like, yeah, he's the leader in that event. And, you know, it's fine.
32:38: So I don't know. I guess there's a lot more to say about that. But yeah, I mean, I can imagine how that can go weird.
32:45: But in the same way, I can imagine how the other statement could go weird too if you take it that way, if that makes sense.
32:52: And so I guess my final question would just then be, why then is it that so many, and you kind of touched on this, but I wanted to hear you talk about it a little more.
33:02: Why then is it that so many people are totally okay? Like, see, zero issues with the first piece of advice, you know, groom, you know, stand here if your wife tells you, or if your bride tells you to stand there, say what she tells you to say, wear what she tells you to wear.
33:21: But then when he gives the opposite advice, it's just total, I mean, yeah, just lighting your hair on fire kind of response.
33:32: Yeah, I mean, so it basically, I mean, you just have a situation where basically we've been trained to think that every use, like legitimate use of authority is abuse of authority.
33:43: So then, I mean, that's basically it. Men and women are the same. They're unchangeable parts.
33:50: And a guy is leading when he's actually following, you know? So we've like turned leadership into fellowship, basically.
33:57: So basically we're just, we're totally on board with anything that sounds like it's like empowering the woman.
34:04: So a lot of this is like critical theory, basically, right? So men are seen as the oppressor, women are seen as oppressed.
34:10: And then the idea that sex is somehow like an obligation or something that a husband desire, like that maybe desires way more than the wife.
34:18: And it's more like, like he has stronger desires in those areas.
34:24: And he's put a lot of thought into all that, you know, like the idea that anything could ever,
34:31: I mean, in standard marriages, I mean, the way it actually works is people do expect that literally 24 hours of every day, the husband exists solely to figure out how to give the wife whatever she wants.
34:47: So I mean, he works all day long. And then if you were to say that there's some kind of, like a wife would, like just take something like regular marital intimacy or something, you know?
34:58: Let me say something scandalous. Like let's say the thought of like a wife having daily intercourse with her husband if he wanted to, right?
35:04: It's like, she takes like 10 minutes per day. Like he works for her all day long.
35:10: And then like the idea that she would like reciprocate that by giving him, like the only thing he cares about, right, primarily, which is this like physical active entity, the thing that he cares about the most, like that would be seen as like totally offensive to everyone.
35:28: But then you could have like 23 hours and 50 minutes devoted to her interest.
35:36: And then the idea of like him even getting like 10 that are uniquely devoted to something he cares about a lot more, that's somehow seen as bad.
35:44: So I mean, like the whole idea is that he's the villain from the start. You know, he's perceived as a villain.
35:50: She's the victim. So then in order to correct the power imbalance, you basically have to have like a one -sided relationship that solely exists for her.
35:59: It's like, that's just not really the way God says marriage is supposed to be. You know, this is more blessed to give than receive kind of thing.
36:11: No one can be my disciple unless they die to themselves, take up their cross, they follow me. Like that goes both ways, you know?
36:17: So like the idea of, the point is just to say that in the minds of many people, marriage solely, like everything about marriage solely exists to serve the woman and there's no category for a man having any desires that he's allowed to express in any way because the issue is he's in charge.
36:34: And so if he's expressing any desire that he has that she has to follow, then that's by definition coercive use of authority in that way.
36:44: Does that make sense? So basically because he's in charge, like he's like, like he can never, like he can never request anything that's for him, you know?
36:59: And like that, so basically it all has to be about, like the only way you can possibly be in charge in that kind of scenario is to only use your authority in such a way as to basically just figure out what she wants and give it to her man, you know?
37:14: So that's kind of what's going on with all this, like to where it's just, you have one guy viewed as the villain, the woman viewed as the victim, they have a power imbalance, and then you view the entirety of the marriage through the lens of this power imbalance.
37:31: And then basically he exists to correct that power imbalance by empowering her, right?
37:37: By giving her what she wants. And then when he's not, like if there's any like part of it, it's just like, if there's any hint that like any aspect of this marriage whatsoever could be focused more on him, then that's by definition abuse, and coercive use of authority, which is just kind of, it's not real, it's not just, it's just not very realistic when you think about it.
38:05: So marriage is supposed to be kind of, like the best marriages are marriages where a guy is utterly committed to God first and foremost, primarily, and then secondarily, he's committed more to the happiness of his wife.
38:18: But then the same thing is true of her, she's committed first and foremost to God, and secondarily to happiness of husband, raising of a family, everything, that goes both ways, raising of a family, other things.
38:33: So it should be like a reciprocal kind of thing. And it shouldn't be like, I'm committed to serving you on my own terms, based on what
38:44: I desire, right? So like, I'm only interested in giving you what my desires are to give you, not what you actually want, right?
38:57: But that goes both ways. So I just think, yeah, the whole thing is just a good example of how confused we are with these kinds of things, for sure.
39:05: Pete Okay. Well, I think that's a good place for us to wrap up the conversation on. And it is unfortunate, it is unfortunate that the response has been, what it's been to a statement that, sure, maybe it wasn't worded in the most, the wisest way possible, but then the general idea behind it seems fairly straightforward.
39:29: It seems to be like a, consider others more significant than yourself.
39:36: And so you would hope that people would take it more that way than it seems like a lot did, unfortunately.
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40:54: But until the next episode, we'll see you. Transcribed by https://otter .ai
41:54: Transcribed by https://otter .ai