Should a Groom Give HIs Bride Whatever She Wants on Her Wedding Day?

The Wedding Day as a Test Case for Mutual Consideration

Why then is it that so many. And you kind of touched on this but I wanted to hear you talk about a little more. Why. Why then is it that so many people are totally okay? Like see zero issues with the first piece of advice, you know.

Groom, you know stand here if your wife tells you or if your bride tells you to stand there. Say what she tells you to say where what she tells you to wear. But then when when he gives the opposite advice, it's just total.

I Mean, yeah, just lighting your your hair on fire kind of response.

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Welcome to Bible bash where we aim to equip the Saints for the works of ministry by answering the questions. You're not allowed to ask where your host Harrison Kerrigan pastor Tim mullet and today will answer the age-old question.

Should a groom give his bride whatever she wants on her wedding day. Now the reason we're doing this episode is because there is a video that came out This week at some point a few days of when we were when we're recording this.

Where a pastor he was he was addressing his congregation right at the beginning of their church gathering he's about to give the message, but he's recapping a sort of like a marriage retreat that the church had been putting on that ended the day before and He decided he decided to give his congregation one nugget of advice from this marriage retreat so that the people that missed out on it could still have something to take away and so.

Essentially he he starts this advice by addressing the men and telling the men, you know. Hey if you want to. If you want to start your marriage off in the best way possible. When it comes to the wedding day, you need to do everything your bride Asks you to do or really tells you to do you and he says, you know You need to stand where she tells you to stand.

You need to wear what she tells you to wear. You need to say what? She tells you to say you need to do what she tells you to do and you know the crowd just I mean erupts into applause and laughter and you know people yell yelling and Amening and all this stuff and and you know, the pastor's like hey, you know I knew I was gonna get I know I was gonna get a positive reaction out of you guys for that one but let you know he's like let's see if you're still if you're still clapping for me in a minute after I give you the second half of the advice and You know his justification for the for the the wife was hey, look she's been planning this her whole life.

She's been looking to looking forward to her wedding day her entire life and so she's thought about all of these different things that she wants and so as the groom you should want to Give her those things to the best of your ability and and so then he moves on to.

He addresses the women in the room and and he says not, you know now women you guys have been have been planning for your wedding day your entire life and you've been thinking about it and Thinking about you know, everything that you might want that day to be.

For the men they've been thinking about the wedding night. Their entire life and what it what it might look like and what they would want out of a wedding night so women you need to Stand where he tells you to stand you need to wear what he tells you to wear.

You need to do what he tells you to do and you know and the crowd, you know I think watching the video they seemed fairly, you know receptive to what he was saying I mean a lot of people were laughing there was clapping.

There's there probably not as much as when though as when he was addressing the men, but there's still a significant amount I would say it seemed like it was fairly well received at his church and now it was not as well received when the video went online and you know people got their hands on it and There are a lot of people online who essentially were.

They were to put it lightly they were a little upset at What he was saying to the women. This pastor and and so there's a there's a big sort of Conflict that came out online over over this kind of video where where Christians that are probably, you know a lot more in line with What we think about the Bible and our views on various things they were coming out and saying hey look number one.

It seems like this is it's kind of being put out as as you know A bit of a bit of a tongue-in-cheek kind of joke in certain ways. But then even even if it's not like what's the what's the problem here?

I mean, it seems like if anything there's kind of a double standard going on. And then there are people on the other side who are saying hey. This is giving us people who we might not necessarily tend to agree with on a lot of things theologically.

They were coming along and they were saying hey, this is and you know, this is giving us insight into. You know this man's sexual ethic. Apparently and and so they were very upset with it because they were saying that this is essentially How how people are groomed?

Into into certain things this is how abuse spreads within the church and all this stuff and Tim's laughing at it. And all that and all that stuff he just he just you know, he just laughs at it that. But but anyway, so that was that was there.

That was a better risk. Yeah, it's no joking matter Tim. You need to you need to cut that out or this video is gonna come out and they're gonna do the same thing to us. So so that's the that's sort of the context behind this episode and so we thought well Hey, maybe it'd be a good thing to I'm sure I mean, this is a Tim wouldn't you say it's a pretty it's pretty common to hear people say.

Hey look. The woman, you know the bride she she's been thinking about her Her entire life. This is this is her day. It's not y 'all's day. It's her day and You know, so you just need to do whatever she wants basically.

I mean, isn't that a pretty common? I've heard that over and over again multiple times. Haven't you sure?

I mean, I want to start out by saying I stand against abuse in all forms and abuse is not a laughing matter and I I am deeply sorry apologize for for stickering.

That was very brave of you.

I.

Was laughing off I was trying to hide it but. Okay, all right, all right. We've established your you've bravely stood against abuse and all of it. I appreciate that. I appreciate that Tim. All right moving on to you know moving on to the topic and Um now that we've established we are we're against abuse in all its forms, um.

Mutual Consideration, Authority, and Gender Differences in Marriage

Yeah, so so this is this is one of those things that It's so common to hear that. This is the bride's day. This is not y 'all's day. It's the bride's day. She's been thinking about that. She's been planning about she's been planning it her whole life.

You just need to do whatever she wants. I mean and I you know, I think they're for from my perspective I understand what's being said in a certain way, but then when in the context of This kind of situation where you have essentially essentially you have like the hey look.

This is what this is what the guy the the girl has been looking forward to her whole life. That's what the guy's been looking forward to her whole life. Here's an opportunity to. You know, I've if we're if we're trying to put the pastor in the best light possible.

It seems to me like he's essentially Encouraging his congregation. To consider the other person more significant than yourself in a lot of ways. But then when you when you only have a problem with one of one of the halves of that advice It seems like you're demonstrating a bit of a double standard it right Tim.

It's sure. I mean I.

As.

As advice goes, I mean because I'm on it because I am actually able to Generalize. When you tell me advice along those lines, I don't necessarily Get myself been out of shape I don't you know think I need a light my beard on fire and come up with every exception possible for either one of those Scenarios, so just taking taking it as statement of general truth.

You know men men have significantly more ten times more testosterone than women. I mean, it may be debatable at this point.

No.

But.

You know women have significantly more estrogen than men men and women are different. They desire different things and a lot of ways. This is just kind of a basic fact of Biology, I mean men basically think about sex a hundred times.

I mean particularly young men think about sex maybe a thousand times a day or something along those lines. In a lot of that's just they're influenced by the hormones man that God gave them. So, you know, it just is what it is like men and women are different women are you know women?

Desire from a very young age. To be beautiful because they know that God has made them beautiful woman is the glory of man. So you have a day like a wedding day. It's just meant to put the bride on display, right?

She is Presented as a gift to her husband and she wants, you know everything about that presentation to look a Specific way that she has figured out in her mind. So I mean, I think largely when you think about it along those lines there There certainly isn't anything wrong with acknowledging those basic biological differences and how they show up and Something like a wedding, you know for most men they haven't.

You know, they haven't spent their whole life thinking about the wedding day they have spent. The wedding night it's just the way it is, you know, so then part of what's happening is that as a result of egalitarianism.

Like what what's happened? Is that people don't see these differences anymore and you're not really allowed to acknowledge him. And what the world has kind of done is it's gone to war against what makes a man distinctly masculine, right?

So the whole idea of what makes men men like the thing like the things that are different about them than women. Those are seen as problems to fix right? So for some strange like which at a certain point it gets pretty irrational.

So I mean it's like you you think about a topic like this like a woman has spent her whole life fantasizing about her wedding day and about the event and the presentation and how she looks and everything else, but then you're Simultaneously told that she's not made to be visually pleasing to a man at all, right?

That she's not made for beauty and that you know. She doesn't exist solely for the male gaze and all that and it's like well, what was all this presentation about? What are we doing? Right? So basically like there's a war on masculinity.

There's a war on these differences and so anything like basically anything like the fact that a guy would desire Sex way more than the woman is treated as a problem that needs to be fixed. It needs to be brought into some kind of balance or something along those lines.

So as a general statement, I mean, it's just obvious.

Like.

Hey, just as you said do unto others as you'd have them do unto you. It's really not that complicated now. I mean, I wouldn't phrase it the way he's phrased it for sure. But I mean that doesn't mean that I can't acknowledge the significant Element of truthfulness in what he's saying in the sense that I mean obviously the wedding day is going to be way more important to the bride than it is to the.

And very obviously the wedding night is going to be way more important to the guy than it is to the woman. So then I mean these are just obvious things and so if you know that as a member of the opposite gender Then it would make sense that both of those shouldn't like that everything in the whole.

But the whole entirety of the relationship shouldn't revolve around one genders desires, right?

So sure.

Yeah.

So I mean like that there there has to be some kind of give-and-take in the context of a marriage and context of a relationship and I think a lot of what's happened with the servant leader kind of movement is that you basically have.

Like what it means to be a husband is to Basically die to every one of your desires and let your wife. Like I give her everything she wants in every situation. Without it, right. So then like that's what it means to be a servant is to basically have a one-sided relationship that solely exist in order like where the man adopts all the sensibilities the desires the wants, you know the Needs of a woman and there's no back-and-forth element of that at all.

You know, so then what you then what happens is then like this kind of falls right under that line. So like yeah. Make it make the wedding day all about the wife because she's fantasized for that for a whole life and then you know.

What like you're not allowed to have any desires at all. Yeah, because you solely I mean you solely exist to go to work and provide and do Everything your wife wants you to do in every situation. Period the end like you you're not allowed to have any unique preferences desires that anyone's gonna treat with any Seriousness and if you do then, you know, you're probably an abuser, you know.

That's abusive and grooming and everything else and that's why you chuckle at all that I guess it's like well, that's not really like it's more blessing than giving and receiving but people didn't figure out do that.

But yeah, I certainly wouldn't word it the way he's worded it. But I understand what's being communicated and it's really not really that complicated.

Right. Yeah, and so so from your perspective then. You know, generally you would say hey, yes, I agree. You know the Husband, this is a perfect opportunity to consider others more significant than yourself.

Just you know, just. In general, you know try your best to give the bride The wedding day that she wants. Is that is that where you're at with that advice? I mean give or take I mean.

I you know with the rise of the bridezilla phenomenon. You know, it isn't. I mean you definitely add a layer of complexity on it on that end like in the sense that there is such a thing as a As a bridezilla.

I mean the sad thing is that many Many women are you know, basically Filled with envy and covetousness and they go into a wedding day expecting like Insane amounts of money to be put on this one day that is gonna go to waste, you know.

So I it probably problem is I want to say ten things at once and I can't get them all out at the same time. So I'm just gonna have to try to try to. I can't I mean so one aspect of it. Is there's a bridezilla phenomenon on the on that end of things it is like real a significant.

There's a lot of covetousness. There's a lot of envy. That's right there that like this isn't like an out-of-control check, you know. So that's one thing, you know on the other end of the things like a lot of the guy guys fantasies.

He's been developing over the course of his whole life. That could be driven by porn, you know so like you have that on the other end to where just kind of like the blank check language like I understand how People can get a little bit nervous with that but then the problem is like People are getting nervous about it for the like if you don't get nervous and then the woman's in and you only get nervous on The man's it and that's stupid, right?

You should have some kind of partiality. Impartiality there to where you say? Hey, yeah I can see it on both sides and if you can't see on both side like the problem on both sides and there's something Wrong with you, but but anyways, I'm able to generalize.

I understand what's being communicated, but then they're like that's within reason. So, I mean that's part of it. I think you don't want to overturn authority structures, you know that exists like meaning.

Well, your wife is in charge or your bride-to-be is in charge of the whole thing and you just sit there and you know Yes, dear, you know start your marriage off with a yes dear thing. That's another part of it that is a little bit troubling about the language.

But then you know on the other end the husband's authority doesn't exist just to be a boss I can tell everyone what to do, you know a whole time just for the sake of being in control or something I mean, I I think like you're in charge like You should be you know, take it involvement in there.

I think you know Husbands husbands should care about different things than in the wife. Wives do so. I mean, I think the kind of guy who has an excessive focus on the type of flowers that are being Put in the wedding.

I would call out his man card on that one in general. You know, I would just say like are you? Are you a woman, you know. Why do you care about like the deck like if you're talking about decorations and things like that?

I mean I in at my own wedding I had more concerns about like what the pastor was going he's going to say What were the elements in our wedding gonna be right? I didn't have any concern whatsoever about the decorations.

You know, I mean I'm not gonna like let I wouldn't let my wife and she wouldn't want it when it tried to be dress me up as like a Fruitcake or something just for the sake like, you know. So I think there's some dignity that a guy can preserve for himself like if she wants him to wear a pink suit or something.

You know.

There are lines, you know with these things, but I mean I I think most guys shouldn't probably you know if you're caring excessively about Colors and decorations and everything else. I'm just gonna really get uncomfortable and.

Yeah.

Yeah, I just feel very awkward and embarrassed for you but I mean I I do think like yeah, the the theological like this is a wedding day the theological things that are. Said the kind of things that are happening in there, you know.

Like a lot of a lot of couples would want to do communion things like that at their wedding. And I would be like no way like that's not happening. You know, like this is a church ordinance. This is not my individual expression of whatever, you know, so I would I would have more concern about that.

You know me and my my pastor who married me at the time. I had some conversations with him about what he was gonna say.

I.

Was like it's okay if you make it like, you know. More direct about Things like that. I don't care if you offend anyone, you know, so I mean I I think there's things like that. So I mean, I think like a blank check kind of thing on both.

Sides.

There's certainly some lines there, but I mean, I think I get the sentiment give or take. Yeah, I get it, you know. And I think there are obviously like different areas of interest here.

You know.

So I think that most women do care a lot more about the flowers and the outfits and the bridesmaid's dress and If a guy is like, you know I got to be in charge of all that like meaning like I gotta be the one who is making all those calls I just say hey man, just chill out and you know, like She's gonna do that better than you anyways, you know, so.

Yeah, you know, so I I don't know there's there's some random thoughts, but I have more but yeah.

Yeah, so yeah, so the general idea of being hey, yeah, it's probably better to just you know Let you know just let her make those decisions but then it's not a it's not a blank check and it's certainly not meant to be a Let me appease you in every way possible.

Yeah, I mean start off our marriage, right?

Yeah.

So a lot of couples they fight over these kind of things to where the woman what the woman kind of. So women can be very indecisive in these moments and a guy can really help like With decision-making with things like this.

So a lot of times a guy just really doesn't have any like taste in any of this Incense in any of this. And so then the lady can get mad at like the wife can the bride-to-be can. Get mad at him for not taking more active role and putting all this pressure on her to do all this stuff.

And she you know, she's the only one doing anything. It's like do you really want me to pick out this stuff? You know, it's gonna happen. Have you seen my dorm room.

Have you seen those memes where it's like a guy living in his apartment. It shows the picture of the guy's apartment you know before he gets married and then after he gets married and before it's like.

You know a T a TV on the floor with an Xbox and like a lawn chair. And then and then it looks like a normal living room after he's gotten married.

These exist for a reason, you know, and so I mean like in in the kind of guy though I mean that is really just excels at interior design and decorations at a certain point. You just get kind of like okay, you're one of those, you know.

So, so I mean I think the other a lot of conflict could be avoided in this kind of area by just Recognizing that people have different strengths and people have different weaknesses and you don't but I mean at the same time like being decisive.

I Think there's ways you can lead as a guy in those kind of scenarios like helping like just hey look. They both look the same. No one's gonna tell the difference. All right, we're just gonna pick one.

Okay, so that's you know, I think there's things like like that like that to where Like ladies can just kind of get themself all worked up and Stressed out, you know because there's so many decisions and women don't and most women don't excel at making decisions.

You know, so it yeah, so I think as a generality you're not like this is a There is kind of like a Like who is paying for this kind of element to you know, and you're not she's not necessarily under your authority at this point and like So, you know.

Typically typically like like this one of those things where the Where the bride's family is gonna pay for it anyways, right? So just let them do what they're gonna do. Like you see I'm saying like there's a traditions along those lines.

And so I think a lot of that is just like stuff that you don't need to really even concern yourself with. Really? I mean at that point and everyone needs to like just let it go, you know. So I think there's a good element and there's good good part of it.

That's like that I mean, I would think that you don't care you there's input you can have that. That is more helpful like there's things you should concern about concern yourself about but Decorations and all that kind of stuff is not really one of them I mean not one of the main things that a guy should be caring about anyways, you know, so yeah I mean this there's I guess there's a lot to say about it along those lines but then I certainly there's some kind of bridezilla check that needs to happen and That that.

Yeah, we're not gonna spend hundred thousand dollars. Particularly if it's coming out of my own pocket, you know, if your parents are paying for it They can do whatever they want, you know, we'll accept it graciously.

But you know if I'm the one stuck having to pay for a bill, you know, I got it's not gonna happen, you know so so this part of it's that I think a lot of times guys have a temptation with this topic to Be so practical to the point where they can run roughshod over.

Their wife's does that like their bride-to-be? desires in this area to To where they're so disgusted by all the bridezilla stuff to the point where they just like stamp out any kind of joy in the process any kind of like Make it on the cheap as much as you possibly can no thought put into it whatsoever to where it's just a big shabby day.

That is faithful or something. And and so I think guys are more theologically minded can fall into that trap. But I mean that you know, the first miracle Jesus did was at a wedding. There was a big feast, you know, like these were big deals back in the days.

Like Jesus has a category. The Bible has a category for feasting. Jews would lay aside 10 of their income every year to go to the yearly feast like the expending like even significant amounts of money on these things they There's a place for that, you know, and I mean, I think yeah, we used to live in a culture society.

They expected like the.

You know.

The bride's parents to foot the bill. I think so. You know it is what it is I think when there's a lot of pressure put on a newlywed couple to have you know $20 ,000 in the bank or something like that to pay for the wedding of their dreams.

You have to have this have some kind of like hey, we have to operate under a budget. We're not gonna put this on a credit card. You know, we're not gonna if the first the responsibility falls on you. We're not gonna you know Put this on a credit card and do we're gonna live within our means and this is the poorest time we're gonna be in our life, you know, and so.

Like you we should value getting married younger over and against like being I mean for most people, I mean, it's one of those things where it's like you're not ready to throw a You know big expensive wedding until you've been married for 20 years or something.

Which case it's like past time to do, you know, so there's there's things along those lines, too so I mean I think a lot of guys could chill out with these kind of things and quit being and just kind of give their wife more of a our bride-to-be more of a.

This is your domain. You you exist to make the work to be beautiful to make the world beautiful in part, you know. That's part of why God has designed you put you here and this is gonna be more hospitable better.

You know in a lot of ways if you like if your gifts are being put on Display in this event more than mine, you know. So Mike my gifts are not necessarily gonna be the same as yours and so, I mean a lot of guys can just rob all the joy out of special occasions by virtue of just being practical and Yeah, miserly, you know and stuff like that.

Mutual Consideration in the Wedding Night

Yeah.

So flipping it to the other side should the wife do whatever the husband wants on the wedding night. Sure.

I.

Would the same but Tim I thought you said bravely against abuse.

Yeah, it's not abuse. I mean, yeah, I'm within reason.

Yeah.

And to the extent to which I mean I think to the extent to which a guy doesn't have porn brain or something like that I mean asking her to do things that are unnatural or whatever else. I mean, it should be a.

You know, I think it should be like. Yeah, I don't have any problem extending the same logic to the first to the second, you know, so. But you know, I would make all the caveat same caveats and same qualifications and everything else.

So I mean, I think Good pre-engagement counseling pre marriage counseling could sort out a lot of that. Anyways, you know, if that makes sense.

So.

Meaning like the the bride has made herself ready for the groom. Like you read to the Bible and you see that women know how to like. Make these events good, right? I perfumed my bed says the adulterous woman, right?

Right.

Like you think about like the song of songs and you know, it is a picture of a person making this itself ready. To be a bride is a gift that's presented to a groom and you know that climaxes in. Yeah, consummation.

Yeah, that kind of thing. So it is what it's you know, like so I I think if Like I do think that there is an element to just I mean, I guess if you take if you take like you could take those words in the most Awkwardly literal way imaginable.

Mm-hmm, and you could turn them into something that's kind of weird if you want. But I think you understand I think a reasonable person could understand both statements in the same kind of way if they make reasonable allowances in general, right.

So, I mean if a wife like if a bride-to-be is literally saying to you know a husband Here's what you're allowed to say at your wedding, you know. And here's what you're a lot what you're supposed to do with your hands at this point in time, right.

Like it here's like what you're you know, here's the look I need you to have on your face the specific one. Let's practice, you know and that kind of stuff. It could get really weird really quick, right?

But I don't think people necessarily take it in weird ways on the first instance. But then like they don't take it in a wooden woodenly literalistic way. It's just a general kind of Thing or whatever but I would think on the other end of things, uh I a wife should clearly follow her husband her now husband's lead in that kind of area.

And the more that it's just like if there's some kind of like no one knows what they're going to do at that point. Like, you know in the most ideal situation neither one has ever Done any of this so, you know.

Someone's going to have to lead or both people are just going to sit there awkwardly not knowing what to do. So.

I mean.

You know, so I do think that there is like a like a real like She is preparing herself to be submissive and that would be like her first active being like biblically submissive, you know, not in some kind of weird kinky way or something like that, but just like Yes, i'm following my husband's lead in This marriage act in that way.

And i'm not just like fighting it the whole time and you have to figure out the plan I had in my own mind. You know kind of thing that i'm not communicating. Everything would be easier if it's just like yeah, he's the leader in that event.

Yeah, and uh,.

You know.

It's fine, you know, so I don't know. I guess there's a lot more to say about that, but. Yeah, I mean I can imagine how that can go weird. But in the same way I can imagine how the other Statement could go weird too if you if you take it that way if that makes sense.

Why the Double Standard Exists

Yeah, and so I get my final question would just then be why then why then is it that so many? And you kind of touched on this but I wanted to hear you talk about a little more. Why why then is it that so many people are totally okay?

Like see zero issues with the first piece of advice, you know. Groom, you know stand here if your wife tells you or if your bride tells you to stand there. Say what she tells you to say wear what she tells you to wear.

But then when when he gives the opposite advice, it's just total. I mean, yeah, just lighting your your hair on fire kind of response. Yeah, I mean so it's it basically.

I mean you just have a situation where basically we've been trained to think that every use like legitimate use of authority is abusive authority. So then I mean that's basically it's men and women men and women are the same they're unchangeable parts.

And a guy is leading when he's actually following, you know, so we've like turned leadership into Followship basically.

So.

Basically, we're just we're. Um, we're totally on board with anything that sounds like it's him like empowering the woman. So a lot of this is like critical theory basically, right? So men are seen as the oppressor women are seen as oppressed.

And then the idea that sex is somehow like an obligation or something that a husband desire like that, uh, maybe desires way more than the wife and it's more like.