September 11, 2023 Show with Hal Shurtleff on “Why the USA Must Get Out of the UN”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer

George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend

Jim Thorpe. It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another one better.

Our hope that this goal will open the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now here's your host, Chris Arnson. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this 11th day of September, 2023, a day that will remain in infamy, obviously because of the horrific attack on American soil, which brought about the largest death count from the attack of an enemy, a foreign enemy on American soil in the history of our country.

And, of course, the by far the greatest death toll of human lives on American soil as the result of murder is the horrific tragedy of the existence of infanticide in this nation, also known by the prettied up candy -coated name abortion.

But everybody knows that this is infanticide, the murder of unborn children. But this is a date that Americans will likely never forget.

And today we have on the program someone who's going to be involved in a conference this weekend.

It is not related specifically to the topic of 9 -11, but a very important theme nonetheless.

Today we have Hal Shurtleff on the program, co -founder and camp director of Camp Constitution.

He's the host of its radio program and one of the speakers at the Future of Christendom conference in Mannheim, Pennsylvania, this weekend, which features keynote speaker

Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries, who is not only speaking at the conference, but he's also debating

Dr. Gregory Coles, who identifies himself as a gay

Christian. And the theme of the debate is, Is Gay Christian a Biblically Acceptable Identity for a

Member of Christ's Church? That conference is this Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, September 15th, 16th, and 17th at the

Spooky Nook Sports and Events in Mannheim, Pennsylvania, which is in Lancaster County.

Absolutely gorgeous facility where Doug Mastriano, when he was candidating for governor of Pennsylvania, had one of his major fundraisers there.

And I hope that if you have not registered, you will register today for this three -day conference, this

Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And the theme of the conference is The Gospel at War.

And there are a number of speakers that will each be taking a session on different areas of life in this world where the gospel is at war with that specific element of society.

And I hope that you will visit the future—or actually, it's just futureofchristendom .org.

You leave the the off of there. futureofchristendom .org, and you can register right there.

There will also be all of the details that you need to know about this conference. And please, if you register, visit me at the

Ion Sharpen's Ion Radio Exhibitors booth while you are there. But we'll be promoting that later on in the program as well.

Hal Shurtleff is going to be discussing why the United States must get out of the

United Nations. I was just delighted to discover that Hal and I share a friendship with a dearly departed brother in Christ who is now spending eternity with Christ, a former

Mormon who is also a former editor of the New American magazine.

And perhaps many of you who listen to the Ion Sharpen's Ion Radio program dating back to when

I aired the program out of WNYG and WGBB radio on Long Island, New York, William Norman Grigg was a fairly frequent guest on the program.

In fact, we discussed the very topic we are going to discuss today with Hal Shurtleff.

But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Ion Sharpen's Ion Radio, Hal Shurtleff.

Oh, thank you very much for having me on. It's an honor to be here. And I do encourage your listeners to sign up for this conference coming up this weekend.

It's a great, great place to network, a place to meet some really top notch people in the movement and some great fellowship as well.

So I really recommend it. I want to mention, too, that I was in the air back in this day 22 years ago.

I flew out of Logan Airport in Boston, same terminal where two of the planes came from. And by God's grace, my plane wasn't hijacked.

It was a very harrowing experience. So landing in Detroit and people didn't know what was going on, all kinds of things were happening.

And but it's just something that that we'll never forget. And we should never forget as much as some people want to bury in the past.

Amen. By the way, just out of curiosity, is the book by our dear friend

William Norman Grigg, Freedom on the Altar, the U .N.'s crusade against God and family. Is that still in print?

I don't believe it's still in print. There are some copies available. I actually have some on on our camp bookstore and our

Web site. We have some available. People donate books to me on a regular basis. Sometimes I get nice little batches of that.

That's an incredible book. Yes. And the cover of the book says really says it all about the spiritual perspective of the

U .N. Very creepy, very creepy cover. Yes. It's the meditation room.

Oh, so they must be very spiritual here at the U .N. Well, we found out and it was something

I found through Gary Allen's writings many, many years before that, that it was the Lucius Trust that maintains the meditation room at the

U .N. The Lucius Trust used to be called the Lucifer Trust. But the name Lucifer had a negative connotation with some people for some strange reason.

It just didn't sit well with some people. I think it was too. It was a glaring revelation of what their true intentions are.

And they decided to name it the Lucius Trust. So which doesn't really tell you too much. Well, if anybody wants to order that book, which

I just just discovered right now, may be purchased from the

Camp Constitution website, CampConstitution .net, CampConstitution .net.

Ask for Freedom on the Altar, the U .N.'s Crusade Against God and Family by William Norman Grigg, G -R -I -G -G.

And sure do miss William. He was a dear, dear brother. I remember we sponsored a speech of his in October of 2001, and he made some interesting comments.

One of them was every time you say that you have to say when you spell communism, you have to spell out

U .N. C -O -M -M -U -N. He had a great sense of humor.

Yes, he did. And he was brilliant. I used to tell people that if you ride around with Will for a day or two,

I said it should be worth several college credits. Yes. He had a nickname, Thesaurus Rex, because of it, because of his vocabulary, his vast vocabulary.

And if anybody wants to listen to a tribute I paid to William Norman Grigg, go to the

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio website, IronSharpensIronRadio .com, and type in the search engine

Grigg, G -R -I -G -G. And a couple of the interviews

I had with William will appear. I've got to have my webmaster, Eric Nielsen, dig up some older interviews that I had with William because I don't see them on the screen right now as I'm looking at it, especially the one that was specifically on his book,

Freedom on the Altar. I'm not sure why that isn't on there right now, but I'm going to try my best to get that back up there.

Many of those older programs were conducted in a day when I wasn't archiving them.

I was new to hosting my own radio show, although I had worked in radio since the 1980s.

I didn't have my own radio show until 2005, and it took a while to get used to being someone with all those responsibilities of hosting a show.

But I am thankful that Eric Nielsen is now keeping up with all of that for the broadcasts that I conduct now and have been doing since 2005.

But first of all— I want to mention, too, that Norman Grigg wrote a book called

Global Gun Grab, which was a small paperback. The cover of it had a handgun with a twisted barrel.

It's a statue in front of the U .N., one of the entranceways. The book came out, and I remember there was a

Professor Nutter. That was his real name. He was hired by local police departments to train police departments to spot so -called right -wing extremists or whatever they call them.

He made reference to his book. He got a hold of Nutter, and Nutter said,

Do you really think the U .N. is trying to take our guns away? He said, Professor Nutter, have you ever been to the

U .N. headquarters in New York City? He says, Yes, I have. Have you noticed the handgun, the statue of a handgun with the barrel twisted?

He said, Yes, I have. He said, Professor Nutter, where we come from, we call that a clue. And, of course, liberals who would love what that statue symbolizes are thinking and speaking and believing and behaving in great ignorance.

Because if that day ever comes where the citizens of the

United States are completely without firearms, these liberals may come to realize that even they will be slaves of the government and, who knows, may wind up in concentration camps like the

Jews did in Nazi Germany. Imagine if it was a common thing for a Jewish household to be fully armed back then.

I don't know how successful they would have been in completely and totally standing off with the

Nazis, but it would have took them longer. I'll tell you that much. Well, we look at the

Warsaw Uprising. Yes. Back in, I think, 1944. In the ghetto. In the ghetto. Yes, when they had no option but to fight back.

And while they weren't successful, they were able to hold about a division or more with just a handful of weapons.

So sometimes, and like our friend Charles Van Veeck, who chased four communist terrorists out of his church, he'll be one of the presenters this weekend.

Back 30 years ago, all he had was a .38 Stubnose and five rounds, and he was able to save the lives of, there was 1 ,000 people in that church, and they came in, they killed 11, wounded about a dozen.

And Charles had a, he was able to get some clean shots off, and they ran, thinking that there were other armed people.

And because of that, he was able to save many more lives. Their goal was to kill every single man, woman, and child in that church, and they were not successful.

Well, tell our listeners about Camp Constitution. Well, yes.

Camp Constitution is a New Hampshire -based charitable trust. We were founded back in 2008, 2009.

We run a week -long family camp, and we just had our camp this past July, as well as we have weekend retreats, ladies' retreats.

We have a family retreat coming up the end of this month, and a camp, Sentinel, which is a

Christian camp in Tuftonboro, New Hampshire. It's a Friday, September 29th to October 1st.

We also host the Samuel Blumenfeld Archives, and I'm sure if you knew

Will Grigg, you probably knew Sam Blumenfeld. I didn't know him, but I knew who he was. Oh, yes.

Or is. Sam was a deer. Yeah, well, he passed away in 15. Oh, okay. Sam was a deer friend of mine, and he was also one of our instructors, but more importantly, he was a pioneer in the homeschool movement.

And he left me his papers and his writings, and over 200 legal -sized boxes, as well as shopping bags.

And with that, we digitized most of that library, including his speech.

We had speeches on cassettes and reel -to -reels. We had his books. We had his writings. In fact, he was a very good friend of Reverend Rushtuni, and he wrote for the

Chalcedon Report. Yes, I used to see his articles in there when they had a hardcopy magazine that they mailed out.

They did. That's right. That's right. He was a regular contributor. He was one of the first to acknowledge that we have been being deliberately dumbed down.

He recognized that in the early 60s when he was an editor at Grosset and Dunlop. And a friend of his who was an attorney, a

New York City attorney, said, Sam, I'm starting a reading reform group. He said, why would you need that?

He said, reading is so simple. All you have to do is learn the phonics, learn the sounds, and bingo, you're a good reader. He said,

Sam, you've got to read a book by Rudolf Fleischko, Why Johnny Can't Read. And that book changed his life.

And he later became, he came to have a knowledge of Christ. And he wrote, his essay was never published publicly.

It was Why I Became a Christian. And then he wrote a second one, Why I Became a Calvinist. Wow. He was from a

Jewish background. Yes. But he became a Jewish tulip. I'm surprised that the

Chalcedon Foundation has not brought that into print. Well, we have it available.

And if you go to the, yeah, if you go to our website, CampConstitution .net, you'll see the dropdown,

Blumenfeld Archive. And all we need is from to sign up is an email address and a username.

And you have unlimited access to it. And you can spend days and days listening to all the recordings, the video, watching the videos and his essays, his newsletter.

He did an incredible amount of newsletters. Some of them are pretty timeless. And he did have that.

I think you'll see his essays. You'll see one of them entitled, well, two, Why I Became a

Christian. And the second one was Why I Became a Calvinist. That's great.

What brought up the Christianity. Now, he was a pretty much a secular. He said he lost his faith.

He was a nominal Jew. You know, they might have observed holidays. Yeah, there's a God. But he wasn't too excited about it.

After his dad died, he became a, what he said, a sad atheist.

But he was doing some research onto the history of education in the United States. And it brought him to the

New England Calvinists. And then he read John Calvin's book, Institutes. And that led him.

Some people just pick up a simple Bible track. He has to read this really, this very heavy tome. And that's what led him to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

So we were very, very happy about that. But it's a great, great place to get information.

And Sam actually, getting back to the U .N. for a second. Sam was friends of a man named

Dr. Mose Shombe. I hope I'm pronouncing his name right. He was the president of a province in what used to be called the

Belgian Congo called Gatenga. And he had seceded from the

Congo. Now it's Zaire. When a pro -communist or a communist leader,

Patrus Lumumba, came into power. And the United Nations waged an aggressive war against this peaceful province.

The reason why they went after him is because they had uranium and other minerals. But Shombe was a pro -Western leader.

He was a Christian man. And Sam interviewed him when he was in exile in Spain back in the early 60s.

And Sam interviewed him in French. Now we have an English translation, of course, that's available. It was interesting that Sam made reference to the conspiracy.

And Shombe says, ma oui, la force occulte. That's what he referred to as the conspiracy.

And for folks who don't know what happened in Gatenga. The United Nations, mainly using white

Irish soldiers, bombed hospitals, murdered and raped. These are the so -called peacekeepers.

And there was actually some doctors. They were based in France, I believe. There was a book called 46

Doctors. And they appealed to the leaders of the world that this carnage must stop.

They appealed to the Vatican. They appealed to Washington. They appealed to all the capitals in Europe.

And the answer was more guns, more soldiers, et cetera, et cetera. And they subjugated that poor province of Gatenga that had a growing middle class.

They were Muslims and Christians and Jews got along fine, which doesn't happen much in today's world.

And they took them down. And it was a tragedy. But it was the so -called UN peacekeepers that did this.

And you can actually see a documentary, a film that was made just called Gatenga.

You can go on YouTube and find it. And that's one of the very early instances of the

UN showing its true hand, its true totalitarian hand. Now, before we get into the topic, let's hear more about some details on exactly how camp constitution functions and so on.

Oh, great. Yes. Families and churches in our audience can actually take advantage physically of this thing that you have to offer.

Well, we have our one -week family camp. Next year will be July 14th to the 19th. And we have programs for all ages.

And it's a family camp where whole families come. We have in -laws, grandparents. And we have programs for,

I think, from four years old up until adults. And a typical day, we have three classes in the morning.

We have morning devotions. It's a non -denominational camp. So people from, you know, we're

Christ -centered, but we're not denominational -centered. So we have some,

I think, some of the world's top instructors, people like Professor Willie Soon, who's one of the world's top atmospheric scientists, who

I believe came to a knowledge of Christ at our camp way back, I think, in 15 or 16. Probably somebody, some of the folks may be familiar.

We had Pastor Dave Whitney of the Institute on the

Constitution. He's a regular instructor at our camp. We did have for a few years a British Lord, Lord Christopher Monckton.

We have Tom Deweese over the years. And we always try to get a couple of new instructors.

Next year, we're going to have a lady who played a role in the movie Unplanned, which is the

Abby Johnson story. Yeah, and she was the abortion nurse in the movie.

It was another – it was probably the most important scene in the movie,

Julie Wilkinson. But Julie was also an abortion nurse in her unsaved days. And the man who played the abortion doctor in the movie was also a real -life abortion doctor.

And now she spends most of her time exposing the abortion industry.

And so she's an incredible speaker. And we were supposed to have the youngest state rep, youngest elected official in the country.

She couldn't make it, but hopefully we'll get her. Maybe she won't be the youngest next year. She's a state rep from New Hampshire.

She's 18 years of age, and she got elected when she had just turned 18. And so she's very encouraging.

She's a staunch constitutionalist, Valerie McDonald. And we also have

Alex Newman. I'm sure somebody you're familiar with. Alex is – Alex really – he and Sam Blumenfeld coauthored

Sam's last book called Crimes of the Educators. And Alex has a show on frank speech as well as other formats.

And in addition to the great instruction, we have a lot of wholesome activity.

We go on field trips. When we were closer to Boston, we had a camp that was about 90 minutes away.

We would go to Concord, Lexington and see the sites there and the statehouse.

But now we're in New Hampshire, so we – but New England as well as Pennsylvania has history. It has plenty of history.

So in the evening, we have an evening campfire where campers maybe display their musical talents.

So we sing a lot of the – some of the hymns and some of the old -fashioned, even corny songs and corny jokes.

But it's just a great experience. And what's great, we get new people. We do attract a lot of homeschoolers.

We have information tables at homeschool shows around the region. I haven't been to CHAPS, but I've been to the one in Pennsylvania for about four or five years in a row, the

Christian Homeschools of Pennsylvania. And so that tends to be our targeted market, and it's just a great time.

And we have people that ask us, why can't it be two weeks? And this year we had a lot of the young ladies coming for the first time, and they were crying because they had such a great time.

They didn't want to have it to end. We videotape all of our classes and some of our – we also have marksmanship.

This year we had a man who actually trains for – trains churches dealing with active shooters.

And he not only did he give a good class on the subject, but he also – he and his colleague took about 15 to 20 young people who had never fired before.

Maybe close to 30 who had never fired before and left there as pretty well knowledgeable in that incredible, important thing of the right to keep and bear arms.

And we do things around the – we do have a weekend camp, I said, coming up.

So it's just a camp like just on a smaller version. We have a ladies' retreat, and I mentioned the

Blumenfeld Archive. We have a channel with a Rumble channel as well as a YouTube channel, and we have a radio show, which is – which you can get on Podomatic.

We actually broadcast out of – it's WBCQ. The Planet is the radio station.

But we brought – we archive most of these shows, and you can pick them up on Podomatic.

Just put in Camp Constitution. Well, when we return from our first commercial break,

I'd like you to do something that we always have first -time guests do. I'd like you to give a summary of your salvation testimony that would include the kind of religious atmosphere, if any, in which you were raised and what kind of providential circumstances our sovereign

Lord raised up in your life that drew you to himself and saved you. So we'll have you do that when we return.

Anybody wants to join us with a question of your own, send it to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence. Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

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So go to royaldiadem .com, royaldiadem .com. Mention Chris Orensen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. We are now back with our guest today,

Hal Shurtleff. By the way, Hal, I can remember very clearly as a child or as a teenager growing up on Long Island and going to the 7 -Eleven and there would be signs on the doors that said, no one is allowed who is shoeless or shirtless.

I'm sure shirtless is actually what I meant to say. But anyway, as I said before the break, we have a tradition here where whenever we have a first time guest, we have the guests to give a summary of their salvation testimony.

And I'd love to hear yours. Well, yes. Well, I was raised in a congregational church that at that time in the 60s, early 70s was

Bible believing. And I attended a week long camp in Northfield, Massachusetts, where there used to be a prep school, a

Christian prep school. And I made a profession of faith. I remember getting a

Bible and the pastors had John 3, 16 underlined in there. And I was active in the church.

But my teenage 16 to 17 and older, I was backslidden. I kind of embraced an agnosticism.

And but it was when I was 27 years old is when I and I was always a conservative minded person.

I was never some leftist. I remember watching some of the cable TV televangelist.

You know, these guys, they're just in for the money. And as God was getting my attention, I started slowing down and start listening to some of these people.

And I had a very unusual experience. And I have a I still have it.

I have this mahogany bookcase, glass doors. And it was in the afternoon.

I was working a night shift at the time, and there was a series of articles in the local newspaper, the

Boston Herald, about us, about a exorcism that a priest was performing on the

North Shore of Boston. And I read the article and I said, this is a bunch of baloney. And I put it down and I took a little nap.

And I woke up when the door of my bookcase popped open and the books fell to the floor.

And then the door was slammed shut. And my heart was racing. I went to get my I had to calm down and get my landlord, who was a friend.

I said, just kind of quiet. Maybe you can explain what happened. Well, the simple thing is a dowel from the shelf fell and the momentum of the weight of the books forced the doors to shut, slam shut.

And in my panic, I'm thinking, oh, we've got demons in the house. I've got to move. I got to sell my house.

I mean, I got to move. I got to find another apartment, etc. And God was getting my attention because I thought, well, if there's no

God, if there is a if there is a devil, there's got to be a God. And that sort of slowly led me back into God's grace.

And I attended a few different churches and met a wonderful Christian woman.

And we've been happily married for 30 plus years with four beautiful homeschooled. My youngest is now in her second year at Liberty University.

And so I started learning more about the Calvinist perspective. Of course, a lot of people in the

Christian community, pre -trib, pre -tribulationist. And it was through a gentleman who was from lived in Pennsylvania, Tom Parsley, back in the early 90s.

And then, of course, I met Sam Blumenfeld and Sam introduced me to the Chalcedon Foundation.

And I was very just very much impressed by the scholarship and just their dedication and their knowledge of Scripture and the history of the church, too.

It's amazing how few Christians really know much about their their incredible Christian history.

Well, great. Well, we all rejoice in knowing that the Lord of hosts rescued you from yourself and the devil and damnation and are now a brother in Christ.

Well, now let's set the stage for our main topic today. The United Nations is an institution that many people in the

United States, maybe even most. Look upon as a bulwark for keeping peace in the world.

And they when they hear people like us talking about, we've got to get the

United States out of the United Nations. They look at us as nut jobs, obviously.

They think that we are unnecessarily raising the ire of all of the other nations in the globe who are a part of the

United Nations, that somehow if if we were to get our wish and we did remove ourselves from the

United Nations and go, I'll go even a step further. Kick the United Nations out of the

United States, that it would be a suicidal effort.

And I'm sure, obviously, judging from the theme of our program today, you vehemently and vociferously disagree with that.

So why don't you, first of all, tell us when and why the

United Nation was founded? Well, it was founded in 1945 in San Francisco, and they had a meeting prior to that in D .C.

Dunbarton, Dunbarton Oaks, I think is the name of the community where they had their early meeting.

And in Washington and in San Francisco, it was right towards the end of World War Two. And there was a what we say, a war weary world, say that three times real fast.

And they thought, well, if we the League of Nations, which was an early attempt to have a world government or a world entity, the

United States did not join wisely. And they thought, OK, we need to have this entity that will prevent more world wars.

And what people don't realize is that the man who was the first the first man who was the acting secretary general,

Alger Hiss, was a Soviet agent. So I kind of beg the question, what possible good can come out of any entity that was founded by a

Soviet agent, a man who was not just a Soviet agent, but an agent of Joe Stalin, one of the most wicked men of the easily the 20th century, maybe of the history of mankind.

And people people don't know this and not taught this in schools. They have these model U .N. where they talk about how wonderful the

U .N. is and how without the U .N., we would have had World War Three by now. Well, since its founding, we've had hundreds of wars.

We may not have had world wars, but we've had all kinds of wars. And in fact, the the first war that we got involved with after the

U .N. was founded, it was founded in 45. And there was a treaty that was passed that created and it was only two

U .S. senators that voted against it. And as a former colleague of mine would say, they should put statutes to them.

He was a senator, I think, from one from Minnesota, one from, I think,

North Dakota, Shipstead and Langston. They weren't that well known in those days, but they simply read the charter.

And if you read the U .N. charter, most people don't read it. It's a really an Orwellian doublespeak.

And the U .N. and the U .N. bill of the U .N. The thing that came out about a year later, the

U .N. international U .N. rights. It says that I'll just paraphrase it in one one particular part of that.

You have the right to worship, the right to travel, the right to vacations even.

You don't even find that in our constitution. Right. But then a few paragraphs later, they qualify all those rights out of existence.

They say it's not consistent with the teachings and findings of the U .N. or the policies enshrined in the

U .N. So all of those things are just thrown out. The United States was founded by mainly

Christian men and our constitution presupposes a Christian perspective. The U .N.,

on the other hand, is just the opposite. It is a it is an entity that where rights are not granted by God.

The purpose of the U .N. isn't to protect God -given rights. It's to basically protect the interests of the

U .N. And and Alger Hiss, by the way, was eventually found guilty.

The treason part was statute of limitations that run out. But he did go to jail for a couple of years for lying under oath when he was when he denied his communist affiliations.

The first U .N. war that we fought was in Korea. And President Harry Truman at that time said that he is basically going to a higher authority.

It's the same thing that George W. Bush said. And he because the

U .N. Security Council is the one that declares war. What happened was we passed the

U .N. Participation Act in 1945, 46, saying that any time the

U .N. votes to go to war, we have to comply. That is a total violation of the

Constitution. Article 1, Section 8 says Congress declare wars, not the U .N. They don't even call them wars.

They call them so -called police actions. I don't see that term in my constitution, and I'm sure you don't either.

So that U .N., that first U .N. war was lost. We're still over there.

We had a treaty. We never a truce that's never been ended. And it was interesting that General MacArthur, who initially was pro -U .N.,

he said that the soldier above all others prays for peace because he must bear the deepest scars and wounds of war.

His Inchon campaign was a stroke of absolute genius. The U .N.

didn't know about it. In fact, I was friendly with a man who was his pilot. It was in the room when it was being planned.

And somebody said, one of his adjutants said, General, you need to tell the U .N. And he said a word that I don't want to say on a

Christian radio show, the U .N. He learned pretty quickly that the U .N. was not an ally of the

United States. In fact, at that time, the Undersecretary of Political Affairs, who had privy to all information about the war, was a

Russian, and anything that happened went right to Russia. Moscow learned about it before D .C.

did. So that's why MacArthur did not let the U .N.

know about his plans for Inchon. And it was a smashing success. And he was eventually relieved because he had a mistaken notion that he was trained to win wars.

That was no longer the objective. And we paid the price. We've been paying for the price ever since.

We fought in Vietnam under a subdivision of NATO called CETO, S -C -A -T -O, which is now defunct,

Southeast Asia Treaty Organization. Victory was never the objective. We had two Gulf Wars, which cost us lots of lives and soldiers, billions of dollars, if not trillions, in military hardware and foreign aid, and things that are worse than they were when the

U .N. got involved. We look at, here's an example, the PLO. The PLO is a terrorist organization.

They had a seat at the U .N. In the early 70s, the

U .N. voted to get rid of Taiwan, which was the recognized country of China, and seat the

Communist China, kick out Taiwan. At that time, Mao Zedong, who made Stalin look like an altar boy, was in charge.

Genocide was the rule in Communist China. And yet the U .N. embraced Communist China.

And, you know, that's just a handful of the things. And so when people say that, oh, you know, you must be crazy, you want to get out of the

U .N., look at all they've done. I say, you know, give me some examples of what they've done. And they really can't come up with, oh, they'll say, well, they have something,

UNICEF, that's it, the United Nations Children's Fund. I said, what do you know about UNICEF? And I'm sure

I remember trick -or -treating for UNICEF. Oh, yes, so did I. And I wish my parents, my parents who were conservative, but they didn't know much about the

U .N. because they certainly would have let me, they learned later on through me, they said, we will never let you raise money for the

U .N. UNICEF was funding terrorists in Africa in what was used to be

Rhodesia. Some of the, they would, the terrorists would actually come over and missionaries and kill them, murder them, women and children.

And they would find U .N. UNICEF packets. They would support these people.

And they'll tell us, some of the people, and there's a lot of folks that are conservative -minded who tell us that, well, look, the

U .N. is useless. You guys get a little too nervous about that. I said, really? I have a map.

You know, if this was a video, I would show it. It's a map of the world where there are

U .N. missions. They are actually monitoring our elections. The United Nations, not one person at the

U .N. is elected. They're all appointed by their various governments. Yet they have the temerity to monitor our elections, you see.

So they have a school in Tokyo. They have involvement all over the world.

And, in fact, at the conference, my first time I went to the Mars conference, Mid -Atlantic

Reformation, Future of Christendom, was in 2018. And I met a gentleman, and I wish

I remembered what country. He was a Christian. He helped write the Constitution. And he told me that the

U .N. will go in there, and they'll offer them money for educational purposes. And the president at the time said, you know, let's take it.

It's free. And he said, it may be free, but it's the U .N. curriculum. You don't want that.

I have another friend that's from the South Sudan. And he said the South Sudan is a new country now, and they're having all kinds of problems.

And he said the U .N. comes in and offers all kinds of money. But with that money, you've got to accept the homosexual.

You've got to accept that agenda. You've got to promote it in the schools. You've got to get the vaccines. And so they have such an evil influence around the world and around the country, and especially in sub -Saharan

Africa. You go to the average person there where it was a U .N. peacekeeping, the

Ivory Coast, that's an example. You can go on your website and put in Ivory Coast U .N.

peacekeepers, and you'll see that these so -called peacekeepers were child trafficking.

They actually fired upon citizens who were criticizing. They were demonstrating against this U .N. mission, and they killed these people in cold blood.

For some strange reason, you don't hear about that. Even in Fox News and Newsmax, you don't even hear that very seldom.

So that's why I think it's important that shows like your show and many others speak out against the

U .N. And, you know, we learned a lot about the WHO, didn't we, during the China virus lockdown.

The WHO was another arm of the U .N. World Health Organization. Hello. Yeah, that's totally controlled by the

Communist Chinese. Right. Bob, we are going to our midway break right now, and if you have a question for our guest today,

Hal Shurtleff, please send it to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

U .S .A. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter, like, for instance, you are agreeing with things my guest is saying, but you are at odds with your own elders and pastor and your own congregation, or maybe you're a pastor and you're at odds with your own fellow elders, perhaps even at odds with your own denomination, or something you're asking about.

We understand that those reasons would definitely be compelling factors to remain anonymous, but if you're just asking general questions, please give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence.

We'll be right back with Hal Shurtleff. Oh, by the way, folks, please be patient with us. This is the longer break in the middle of the show because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because the FCC requires of them to use this break to localize

Iron Trip and Zion Radio geographically to Lake City, Florida, with their own public service announcements while we air our globally heard commercials.

Please be patient. We'll be right back. The Mid -Atlantic Reformation Society presents The Future of Christendom 2023,

The Gospel at War, September 15th to the 16th in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, featuring

Dr. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries. We are excited to be including a formal debate in this year's conference.

Dr. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries will be debating Dr. Gregory Coles, author of Single Gay Christian, A Personal Journey of Faith and Sexual Identity, the debate topic,

Is Gay Christian a Biblically Acceptable Identity for a Member of Christ's Church? So come join us for the sixth

Future of Christendom conference. The event will take place at Spooky Nook Sports in Mannheim, Pennsylvania, and will run from Friday evening through all day

Saturday with an invitation to the Sunday morning worship service of the Independence Reform Bible Church. This will be a weekend packed with practical teaching with a theme of the

Gospel at War in many areas of our culture, including government schools, the Supreme Court, missions, feminism, and even the church pulpits.

Head to futureofchristendom .org. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries here.

I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend, Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the

G3 National Conference. That's Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd on a theme that I have been preaching, teaching, writing about, and defending in live public debates for most of my life, the sovereignty of God.

I'll be joined on the speaking roster by Steve Lawson, Voti Baucom, Paul Washer, Virgil Walker, Scott Anuel, and Josh Bice, founder of G3 Ministries.

And there's more great news. Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio can get you a 30 % discount off the registration fee.

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Chris Arnzen and I look forward to seeing you all Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd for the

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Go to g3min .org and enter promo code G3ISIR for your 30 % discount off the registration fee.

I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, President Emeritus and Professor of Systematic and Applied Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary.

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Dr. Morecraft is Pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, and I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.

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For details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com,

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Joseph Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sends you. When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

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If you love Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is by supporting our advertisers.

One such faithful advertiser who really believes in what Chris Arnzen is doing is

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Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio on the air. Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor.

Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio has had a long -time partnership with our friends at CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

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O hail the power of Jesus' name.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support

Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio financially. Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work of our

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If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some

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This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our

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Hi, this is John Sampson, Pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona.

Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the Iron Sharpen's Iron podcast.

I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the

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This is a day of great spiritual compromise and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time.

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Please visit us at truthloveparent .com. Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,

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and purchase generously and mention Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Before I return to Hal Shurtleff, I just have a couple of very important announcements to make.

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click support, then click, click to donate now. Also, folks, I want to remind you if you're a man in ministry leadership

I invite you to the next biannual Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastor's Luncheon with keynote speaker

Jeff Noblitt, one of the most powerful preachers I've ever heard. He is the senior pastor of Grace Life Church of the

Shoals in Muscle Shoals, Alabama, which financially supports churches, biblically sound churches, all over the world.

And I'm sure if you are a man in ministry leadership you are going to be richly blessed by what

Pastor Jeff Noblitt has to say on October 5th at the luncheon. And not only is the admission free of charge and not only is your meal free of charge, everybody attending receives a heavy sack of free brand new books personally selected by me and donated by Christian publishers all over the

United States and United Kingdom, and you can't beat that. So if you want to attend this event on Thursday, October 5th, 11 a .m.

to 2 p .m. at the Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania, which is Perry County, Pennsylvania, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

and put Pastor's Luncheon in the subject line. Last but not least, if you are not a member of a biblically faithful,

Christ -honoring, theologically sound, doctrinally solid church like the Independence Reformed Bible Church in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, I have extensive lists spanning the globe of biblically faithful churches and may be able to help you find a church no matter where you live on the planet

Earth as I have done on many occasions with listeners in our audience, sometimes helping them find churches within just a couple of minutes from where they live.

And that may be you too if you are without a church home that's biblically sound. Send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

and put I Need a Church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Hal Shurtleff on why the

United States must get out of the United Nations. chrisarnson at gmail .com chrisarnson at gmail .com

And let's see here. I was just looking at a question for our guest.

Here it is. Her name is Louise from Storm Lake, Iowa.

And Louise says, can you list some primary prominent figures from history on both sides of the

United Nations issue when it was first forming, both on the pro and on the con side, and briefly explain their reasons for either being for or against it.

Well, I did mention that when the UN Treaty was ratified, there were only two senators that voted against it out of.

Wow. Yeah, there was 48 at that point, right? Before Alaska and Hawaii. Actually, 46.

Shipstead and Langdon. One was from, I think, North Dakota. One was from Minnesota. But over the years, there were some that have regretted their vote.

Who was the gentleman that ran for president in the early 50s from Ohio?

I almost said, yeah, he was a nephew of Taft, President Taft, Robert Taft.

He regretted his vote, and he said we should have done it alone. And over the years, there's been a number of critics of the

UN. One of the earliest books that I recommend on the subject was written by G.

Edward Griffin. It was called The Fearful Master. And that was an example of somebody who was in college, was taught that this

UN was a great entity. And he simply looked at the facts. He looked at the history.

He looked at the principal agents behind it, and he decided that this was a pretty rotten organization.

I think Ezra Taft Benson, who at that point, he had been part of the Department of Agriculture. He was head of the

Mormon Church at one time. He was very much against the UN. So there's been a lot of people against it, but they don't get a lot of visibility.

And again, there's a lot of good, decent people that think, you know, we really don't want to get out of the

UN because, gee, we have to at least know what they're doing. That stupid line in the movie, you need to keep your enemies close, keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer, which is kind of a stupid thing.

That's a mafia. Isn't that a mafia thing? Exactly, yeah, yeah. I either want to vanquish my enemies or keep them far from me.

I don't need to have them near me because I know they want to do damage to me. So anyway, now as far as people that support the

UN, well, there's lots of people. You look at the media. You look at, I mean,

Harry Truman was a big champion of the UN. Al Jahis, the first general secretary whom I mentioned, acting general secretary.

Anybody that would surprise the more conservative listener? That supported the

UN? Well, you know, I can't say offhand, but you have to look at George W.

Bush. He was a big supporter of the UN. In fact, when he gave that speech at a joint session of Congress in the wake of the, right before the

Gulf War, he said, What we have here is a real chance of this new world order.

And then he defined it. A UN is envisioned by its founders. So then you have to ask the question.

Was that George H .W. Bush or George W. Bush? I'm sorry, H .W., the elder.

H .W., not W. But W. was also a big advocate of the UN. George Shultz, a big advocate of the

UN. You could look at most people, most of the neocons, love the neocon

Republicans. On the other hand, Ron Paul, he would be a very good example of somebody who not only opposed the

UN, but submitted bills as a member of Congress every two years.

He called it the UN, the Sovereignty Restoration Act. And I think that bill has been submitted over the years.

And sometimes it gets 50 votes, sometimes if it comes to a vote. But the very fact that we're talking about it, that's the beginning of seeing it end.

And, you know, we did get out of, we got out of, let's see. We got out of the

WHO for a short time under Trump. We got right back in it because of Biden.

But we also got out of another arm of the UN. I'm trying to think, UNESCO.

UNESCO, the United Nations Education, Science, Culture Organization. We got out of that under,

I think it was the Reagan administration. We simply just pull our funding. And I think it was one of the

Bushes that got us back in. I don't know if it was, I think it was George W. Bush that quietly got us back into UNESCO.

But without our money, the UN would dry up because we supported, I think, about 80, 90 percent.

And when it comes to our troop, our soldiers, you know, these UN, the

Gulf War was supposed to be a UN operation. And it's usually like 95 percent

Americans, maybe a handful of Canadians and a few from other militaries.

But the bulk of the fighting and the dying and the bleeding and the wounding comes out of the

United States. We have a listener named Reed in Bellevue, Nebraska.

And Reed says, I heard you mention G. Edward Griffin. I was wondering if you recommend his book,

The Creature from Jekyll Island, a second look at the Federal Reserve. I highly and not only do

I recommend it, but I was honored to take him on a speaking tour of New England back when the book first came out.

And if you go to any go to YouTube and you put in Ed Griffin and Hal Shurtleff, you will see a very young version of me.

I used the term almost good looking version of me interviewing Ed Griffin on his book.

So and I actually got a chance to meet him again at his Red Pill Expo. He actually held it in Hartford, Connecticut, back in 19.

So I got it. Not only did I. It was good to catch up with him because it's been a few years since I've seen him. But I had a nice stack of his book and he was good enough to autograph them for me.

The Fearful Master, which is out of print. And it's one of the, I think, great books as a primer on the

U .N. It goes into the founding, who were the founders and the philosophical underpinnings.

There's a few other good books that I recommend. Will Greig. Anything by Will Greig I'd recommend. But he wrote Global Gun, Global, Global Gun Grab.

And the one we mentioned earlier about the spiritual aspect of the

U .N. I can't think of it. We were promoting it just as early on the show.

Oh, you mean Freedom on the Altar? Is that what you mean? Freedom on the Altar. Thank you. Yes. As well as Changing Commands.

That was another book published in the mid -90s that goes into the military aspect of the

United Nations and how American soldiers basically, when they fight under the

U .N. auspices, are led by U .N. In fact, Michael New, Michael New, I got a chance to meet

Michael New on a few occasions. He came to a camp I was affiliated with before we started Camp Constitution. He was an

E4 specialist. And I can't remember what nation he was stationed in. It was in Europe.

And he was told to wear a U .N. helmet or a U .N. hat. And he said no. He said,

I took an oath to defend the U .S. Constitution. And at that time he was under the direct command of a

Turkish soldier, a U .N. officer. And he made some news.

It wasn't covered by everybody. He ended up getting a general discharge. And it's sad that he was one of the few that spoke out.

It should have been the generals and the admirals speaking out against the U .N. and the United States soldiers being put under U .N.

command. But, you know, a general discharge is not generally a good thing to get.

But under those circumstances, he held his ground and he showed a lot of moral courage.

And he said, no, I'm not going to. He said, I'm not afraid to serve. I am not deserting. I'm just not serving under a foreign command.

And he was very justified in that. Well, going back to an earlier question just moments ago.

So you're saying that as far as prominent figures, the only person that you can think of that was opposed to the

U .N. is or was Douglas MacArthur after he initially supported it and then regretted it?

No. Well, no, I'm Doug. I met Douglas MacArthur. I mentioned the head of the moment.

And I mentioned Ron Paul, who was a candidate for office. I mentioned his son. I believe he's very much against the

U .N. Yeah, well, that's that's more recent, though. I'm speaking about when it was first established.

No, there was very there was. Yeah, there was very little opposition to it. Just as far as I know, just those two

U .S. senators and and Taft, the man who was

Senator Robert Taft, who became a presidential candidate, he he was he spoke out against it.

So there has been like it has been some. But you're going to have to look for, you know, an organization like the

John Birch Society was very much against getting inside the U .N. That was one of its earliest campaigns. And so all the people affiliated with with that organization,

Larry McDonald, congressman from Georgia, who was playing was shot down by the Soviets in 1983.

He was very much against it. Gary Allen, who wrote a book that got six million copies distributed,

None Dare Call a Conspiracy, was very much against it. So there's been a number of people against it.

Even Joe Scarborough, Joe Scarborough. Now, you know, this screaming leftist that's on the morning show.

I don't I don't trust him as far as I can spit. I think he's a fraud. I don't know. I'm the same way.

It's interesting that he was once an anti -establishment Republican and he sponsored a bill or co -sponsored a bill to get us out of the

U .N., something they'd have probably denied. And now he's married to the the the daughter of one of the top deep staters,

Brzezinski. I mean, Brzezinski. You look up the word deep state in the dictionary.

It should be a picture of him and Kissinger. Those are the two people I think are the quintessential deep staters.

OK, so it's amazing how you can sell out your perspective, sell out your worldview pretty quickly.

Already we have Theodore in Keene, New Hampshire. How close is

Keene, New Hampshire, to where you are? Keene is about an hour and a half drive. It's on the other side of the state.

I'm in Alton, New Hampshire, on Lake Winnipesaukee. But it's a good area. It's called the

Monadnock region. And we used to have our family camp in Rindge, New Hampshire, just a short distance from Keene.

So I'm very familiar with the town or city of Keene. OK, I think that Theodore has an excellent question.

He says, could you list a few reasons that are first and foremost, why every patriot should want the

United States to withdraw from the U .N. and secondly, why specifically

Christians should want us as a country to withdraw from the U .N.?

I think those are excellent questions. I think the first reason that the

United Nations is anti -Christian, it's anti -God. Everything it stands for, everything it's done.

That would be a Christian reason, because obviously many even conservative

Americans could care less what Christians think. That's true. The United Nations Charter is diametrically opposed to the

U .S. Constitution. I think that's probably the most biggest reason why we should get out of the

U .N. Number two, we are the U .N.'s basically soldiers.

The United Nations relies mainly upon the United States to fight its wars. We've been doing that since the

Korean War, World War, Korean War, Gulf One, Gulf Two, and Afghanistan and Iraq and all these other wars that we've been involved in.

These were all fought under the U .N. auspices. And so I think that's a very good reason to get out.

And as far as why a Christian, I think those first two I mentioned also apply to Christians.

But the U .N. is one of the biggest supporters of the promotion of homosexuality and abortion.

Yes. Weren't they withholding aid from countries that were against abortion?

Oh, Uganda. In fact, Uganda passed a law outlawing homosexuality.

I met a pastor from Uganda very recently, and he said, yeah, all these nations that have given foreign aid have cut their foreign aid.

But you know what? I was speaking, I was at a group of people, and I was actually talking to a pastor friend of mine, and he was a little upset about a certain candidate that believes we should cut off financial aid to Israel.

And I said, look, I said, first, it's unconstitutional. Number one. There's no nothing in the

Constitution that says we need to give money to anybody. Right. Number two. Money from the federal government comes,

I don't use the word strings, it comes with chains. So if you if you're accepting money for the federal government, you must do certain things that the

Biden administration wants you to do. So to me, that's pretty tainted money, pretty bad money.

And and the third reason is that if you're relying upon money from evil countries or evil entities, you're you're basically singing their tune.

You need to become independent. And I pointed out that Israel is the first world country. They don't need our money. And I think

Uganda and the South Sudan, they may be struggling, but they're better off without it in the long run.

Become independent. If you're truly independent, that means you don't need money from from socialist countries or Marxist entities like the

United Nations. And I just had something in my head that was very important that I was going to ask you.

Oh, well, list some of the best resources that you can name that would be helpful aids to our listeners who want to sit down with family, friends, loved ones and neighbors and perhaps alienate alienate them for the rest of their lives.

But but but to sit down with them, to give them convincing arguments, if they're if they're if they believe that they themselves are inadequate to do so convincing arguments, why the average citizen, even the average liberal, should be opposed to the

United States being a part of the United Nations and why we should even tolerate their existence in our nation?

Well, if you go to our YouTube channel, you'll see a playlist and I think we have a

U .N. get us out of the U .N. playlist. If not, I could. There's so many videos out there and they're not all necessarily put out by conservative entities.

There was there was there was a documentary on Katanga. I recommend that.

That was that was a film that was made, you know, converted into a video back in the 60s. I've given presentations on the

United Nations over the years. I think some of that is up on YouTube, you know, laying out the history of the U .N.,

its crimes against humanity and why we need to get out. And how do we do it?

And the best way to do it, of course, is to first we need to educate people about the U .N. And then we need to say

Congress can defunded Congress. You know, even if we don't get out formally, we can actually defund it, which in essence, if we don't pay our dues, we're out.

I don't see that happening under the current administration. I don't know what's going to happen in 2024, but I think it might be more practical in 2024.

So I think the education is extremely important. And there are just so many things out there.

I just I mentioned if you go to our website, CampConstitution .net, we have a lot of drop down.

We have downloads and there's a lot of stuff there. I think you can begin with our

YouTube channel and some of the books that we make available. But there's like I mentioned, some great books, too, by William Norman Grigg, G.

Edward Griffin's book Changing Commands by John McManus. Just a few to begin with. If you reach out to me directly,

I could actually I have an extensive library. I can either send you links or even some hard copy things.

Just go to our website. There's a contact place. Say, hey, I heard you on the radio when I want you to send me some information you have.

I've got some smaller booklets. I've got some DVDs that I may have available. And of course, the

U .N. Agenda 21 is an integral part. The U .N.

is sort of the parent of this thing called Agenda 21 or Agenda 2030. And this is happening right in our own communities.

There's an organization called the ICLEI, International Council of Local Environmental Initiative, found at the

U .N. two years before the Rio de Janeiro conference. The U .N.

may be operating. I don't mean that there's U .N. soldiers running around your town, but the things the

U .N. is promoting might be happening in your own town and you don't even know it. And this is something that we've been campaigning for for years, exposing the

Agenda 21. I've done, I don't know, about 700 public presentations around the region the last 15 or so years on the subject.

And I think AOC did us a service when she came out with the Green New Deal.

You remember that bill that almost nobody voted for? Right. I said, this is Agenda 21.

She did us a favor, not that she meant to do us a favor. So you see these these things happening and we've had success even in Keene, New Hampshire, a liberal college town.

There was a bill that was a U .N. and they're a member of the ICLEI or were.

I don't know if they still are, but they were. But one of the bills they wanted concerted wetlands and they wanted to restrict.

And a wetland is whatever the liberals say it is. It could be a puddle that might be there after a rain.

I'm being a little facetious. But so they wanted to have a real restricting restrictive bill to an ordinance to restrict any kind of building was in so many feet.

And what happened was it was struck down and it was modified. It wasn't as it was still not a good bill to pass, but it could have been a lot worse.

And just a few towns away in the town of Ridge, New Hampshire, the the agenda 21 people were getting getting ready to make some profound changes in that town.

They had this this plan all ready to roll. And a friend of a gentleman who became a good friend reached out to me and he said,

I don't know anything about this hell, but I got to get educated. He started a local group. And within six months, maybe even less, they kicked the whole thing out.

Lock, stock and barrel. And even the town manager resigned, relocated. And they had some new selectmen that were liberty minded.

So some good things have happened as a result of that. And there's lots of pushback around the country.

And a lot of people don't look at the bigger picture of the U .N. But Agenda 21 is a is a the

U .N. is the parent of Agenda 21 or Agenda 2030. OK, we have

Tyrell in Waukesha or Waukesha. Perhaps you can correct me on the pronunciation of that Wisconsin.

And Tyrell says, please pardon me for introducing a topic that is not a part of your main theme.

But since you were talking about the Federal Reserve earlier, I was wondering if you could recommend as legitimate the documentary

America, Freedom to Fascism. Yes, that doc.

And that came out, oh boy, over a few years ago. And I actually interviewed the man,

Aaron Aaron, who said Aaron Russo since passed away. Yes. Yes, I do recommend that.

He is a very interesting guy. He was, I think, Bette Midler, Bette Midler's manager at one point.

Yeah, he produced the Rose. He produced the Rose. That's right. Yes. And I don't know where he was coming from theologically.

I'm not sure, but I know he was very much against NAFTA. And I know that he again freedom.

He was against the Federal Reserve Bank. I remember he was very he was a good theatrical guy. He had he was talking about NAFTA and he had a little person with a wheelbarrow, which is

NAFTA. And he had a he was kicking it around stage. You know, how many pages is that? You know, so, yeah,

I definitely would remember freedom from fascism. I recommend that. Yeah. I was first informed about that documentary by an

Orthodox Jewish friend of mine, Bob Unger. And I was blown away. Do you know

Bob? Bob's a friend of mine, too. Really? I know Bob very well. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, wow. Well, Bob and I as a character.

Oh, yes. Bob and I have been very close friends for decades going back to. Oh, yeah. You tell me.

I said hello. I will. Yeah, we still stay in touch. I've known Bob since we had a lawsuit. We had a lawsuit.

I'm going to be talking about it at our at the conference. It was about Christian flag and the city of Boston.

I wanted to raise the flag to celebrate Constitution Day. Well, our organization. But I'm at the head of the head of it.

And we were denied. This was back in 17, based on the first amendment and then eventually became approved city speech.

Well, it took almost five years, but we won our case nine zero in the

U .S. Supreme Court. And that, yeah, that set a precedent, something called the

Lemon Test, Lemon versus Krutzman, which was back at Supreme Court decision back in 71,

I think. And this lemon test where people with school teachers and principals and elected officials and government officials would would really restrict

Christian liberties. They would say, well, you can't have a Ten Commandments on the on the public property. You can't put up you can't put up a sign that says,

God bless you. You can't even wear a cross. And, you know, if you're a government official and all these things are happening.

And our case, Shurtleff v. Boston and the Joe Kennedy case,

Coach Kennedy. I think these were the two things that struck down this terrible thing called the

Lemon Test. And we're very excited about that because we did raise our flag. But what's happening as a result of our case, that's towns and cities around the country will no longer fly certain flags like the rainbow flag.

You say, look, we don't want to if we fly the Christian flag, we're going to fly all these other flags. So we're just going to fly the

U .S. flag, the state flag. It may be this town of some towns have flags and the

POW MIA flag. And that's that. And that's really what it where it should be. You know that. So I think it was it was very, very important thing for us.

And I have to say that God's hand was in this case from the very beginning because it was never my idea to take this to the

U .N. I mean, you and excuse me, to the U .S. Supreme Court. Well, yeah,

Bob and I go back to 1991. I can still remember the day I received a fax from him because I worked for WMCA radio and he was urging me to get him interviewed on the

Andy Anderson live program. This is before I had my own talk show. And that sparked a friendship that that exists till this day.

And, oh, yeah, Bob. In fact, he conducted a fascinating interview with him and one of his friends who was also an

Orthodox Jew years ago. And it was an interesting, fascinating point of view that you very rarely hear.

These two men are Orthodox Jews and Zionists, but they are vehemently opposed to the current

Israeli government. So it is just a gentleman that used to have a cable

TV show in New York City. I don't. Are you talking about. No, you're not talking about Bob Unger. You're talking about somebody else, right?

No. You mentioned his friend. He said he had another friend with him. I can't remember. I just know that they were both they were both pushing for the candidacy of a new prime minister of Israel who actually listened to the program that.

Oh, really? Yeah. He listened to the interview I conducted with Bob. But I just. Oh, that's great. I just can't remember his name.

Bob's friend right now. But we have to go to our final break. If you have a question for my guest, please submit it to Chris Arnsen at gmail .com

quickly because we're rapidly running out of time. We'll be right back. Please don't go away. The Mid -Atlantic Reformation Society presents the future of Christendom.

Twenty twenty three. The gospel at war. September 15th to the 16th in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania.

Featuring Dr. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries. We are excited to be including a formal debate in this year's conference.

Dr. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries will be debating Dr. Gregory Coles, author of Single Gay Christian, a personal journey of faith and sexual identity.

The debate topic is gay Christian, a biblically acceptable identity for a member of Christ's church.

So come join us for the sixth future of Christendom conference. The event will take place at Spooky Nook Sports in Mannheim, Pennsylvania, and will run from Friday evening through all day

Saturday with an invitation to the Sunday morning worship service of the Independence Reformed Bible Church. This will be a weekend packed with practical teaching with a theme of the gospel at war in many areas of our culture, including government schools, the

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Yeah. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries here.

I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the

G3 National Conference. That's Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd on a theme that I've been preaching, teaching, writing about and defending in live public debates for most of my life.

The sovereignty of God. I'll be joined on the speaking roster by Steve Lawson, Voti Baucom, Paul Washer, Virgil Walker, Scott Anuel and Josh Bice, founder of G3 Ministries.

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I'm Dr. Tony Costa, professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

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It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners from all over the world.

Here's Joe Riley, a listener in Ireland, who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves hearing interviewed,

Dr. Joe Moorcraft. I'm Joe Riley, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener here in Atai, in County Kildare, Ireland, going back to 2005.

One of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is Dr. Joe Moorcraft. If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron radio,

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Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Invinio, and thanks for listening. When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

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If you'd like to visit their website, it's 1 -800 -NOW -HURT .com, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT .com.

Why not write down that phone number and website and keep it handy, because you never know when you're going to need the aid of Buttafuoco and associates.

And we are now back with the final portion of our program today with Hal Shurtleff, co -founder and camp director of Camp Constitution, and one of the featured speakers at this weekend's

Future of Christendom conference in Manhattan, Pennsylvania, which also includes keynote speaker and debater,

Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries. And I am so thrilled that this event has finally come to the point where I can say it's just going to be held in a few days.

And I can't wait to be there and be blessed by all of the speakers, including Hal Shurtleff.

I'd like you to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today before we go off the air.

Well, that's a good thing. I think we have to, our job is to advance

God's kingdom. And we, you know, the prayer is to open up, ask God, if you're not involved in the freedom movement,

I'm sure that a lot of your listeners are involved in some respects. Either they're involved in the church, but ask

God where he wants you to be. People ask me all the time, what can I do about this? What should I do? And I'll say, ask

God. I'm not saying that as a cop out, but ask God where he wants you, because you may have certain skills that you think are needed in one place, but maybe

God wants you someplace else. Either, you know, I would say if your children are in government schools, get them out as quickly as possible.

The homeschool movement is flourishing. And your church should be promoting, they should be having their own school if they don't already.

And if they do, you need to help it. Help them with, and I'm sure you have much to offer.

If you have, whatever you can do, help those local schools. We have a lot of great satellite schools that are starting up.

And I'm just so encouraged in that respect. I know that we look at today's headlines, and we get very depressed.

But I know that God is on the throne. And he's not done with this nation. He's not done with his people.

And I think that some great things are going to be happening down the road in the next few years. So I'm not a

Pollyanna. And I know things may be getting, may get a lot worse before they get better. But I'm just encouraged by the things

I'm seeing, not just in the United States, but in other parts of the world. So God, you know,

God wants to, you know, the word encourage is to promote courage, where the word discourage is to make people have less courage.

So we need to encourage the body and advance the kingdom and all opportunities that we have.

Wouldn't you agree that one of the reasons that even conservative

Americans and even conservative Christians so often take the wrong side on issues like the one we are discussing today is because they forget that God is in complete and sovereign control over all things.

They're not trusting. I do agree. Yes, I do agree with I do agree with you. They they look at they look at a man.

A man has caused a problem and will solve the problem. And that's not the case at all. And I also need to point out, and I'm sure you agree that we are in a spiritual battle.

Yes. And what we see is the physical manifest manifestations of that spiritual battle.

And so I think that's that's the important aspect that, yeah, there are parties that are, you know, people put people put their stock in the

Republican Party. Now, you can't do that. There's people worthy of your support. But the idea that a party is going to save the day, if that were the case, it would have saved our country a long time ago.

Yeah. And we have to be careful not to be guilty of is a Jesus importing into the

Bible things that don't exist there. A woman, a sister in Christ, contacted me in response to the publicity of today's interview.

And she said, why are you even having a show like this? Because although the

U .N. is satanic, it is a part of biblical prophecy. So by having a show like this where we're saying that America needs to pull out of the

U .N., she was claiming we were believing that Bible prophecy was incorrect because she was insistent on importing this notion of the

U .N. being a part of Bible prophecy into the into the scriptures, which obviously you go ahead.

You know, the Bible tells us to expose the unfruitful works of darkness. And that's, I think, what we're doing on this show, that the

U .N. is unfruitful and it's certainly dark. And that's our biblical mandate. Right. I mean, we can justify that, say, well, gee, we think

Hitler was the Antichrist. And so we should never have opposed him. And so when he rolled his tanks into Poland, hey, that's just that's just prophecy being fulfilled.

And I don't think that's I don't think that's the proper perspective. Right. Well, we're out of time. And the Web site for my guest is

CampConstitution .net, CampConstitution .net. Don't forget to register, if you haven't already, for the three -day conference this weekend featuring

Dr. James R. White. That's futureofchristendom .org, futureofchristendom .org.

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives, Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.