Collision w/ Jeff Durbin: Responding To Joe Rogan

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What's up everybody? Very excited about today. We're doing collision. I'm Pastor Jeff Durbin and we are talking about Joe Rogan, one of my favorite shows to listen to.

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So let's get started. All right, here we are doing, uh, actually an episode

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I'm very excited about on Joe Rogan. I love Joe Rogan. Obviously he's not a believer and I don't agree with everything he says or does, but I absolutely love

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Joe Rogan. I enjoy listening to his podcasts. I enjoy listening to how he treats his guests and digs into things.

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And he has some very interesting guests and topics. And so I'm very excited to engage with this. To be fair, this is very important to be fair.

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Some of these clips we're engaging with today are old clips from years ago with Joe Rogan.

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And I've seen a significant change in how Joe Rogan deals with Christianity and engaging this subject as opposed to how he did it before with some of the stuff that we're doing today and engaging with some of his older comments.

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He, uh, fairly recently had Jordan Peterson on. That conversation actually was very interesting. And, uh, so this, this is actually sort of like the older Joe Rogan.

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And so I want to be fair to him and treat him well and with respect and recognize this sort of the old

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Joe Rogan, uh, different from how he reacts today and how he engages today on this subject. But some of the stuff that he talks about in these clips is important for us to know about as Christians and to be able to engage with because actually some of the stuff that Joe Rogan was saying here are common myths about the

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Christian faith. And so let's get to it. And every, and no, and no one goes, what is

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God? What are you saying? Like, what are you saying? Do you think Jesus came back from the dead? What do you think? Do you think someone walked on water?

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Do you believe in the literal translation? Are you an old Testament guy or a new Testament guy? So, uh, as a lot there in, in sort of a string, there's a flurry of stuff.

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So the first thing is, uh, I, I don't know what he means by literal translation. So we'll get into some of that a little bit later when we talk about how he talks about the

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Bible, how he got the Bible, how old is the Bible, how closely connected to it is, how, how closely connected is it to the events, uh, themselves, the historical events themselves.

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But when he, he starts off talking about, you know, do you believe in this historical person, Jesus who, you know, raised from the dead or raise others from the dead or walked on water, you really believe that.

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And here's, what's really important for Joe to hear is, is the reason that Christians believe that is not only is because, is it because it's based on eyewitness testimony of those who walked with Jesus, new

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Jesus, uh, people who are, who were not believers in the resurrection immediately and had to actually physically see

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Jesus alive. Uh, people like the apostle Paul who was actually trying to stamp the Christian church out.

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He was opposed to it by his own Testament testimony. He was trying to destroy the church he says in Galatians.

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And so he wasn't open to the claims of Christianity. He came to Christ after actually seeing the physically raised

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Jesus Christ from the dead, uh, James, the Lord's brother, I mean, his own brother following him as God being martyred for his faith saying he believed in his brother as God and savior of the world.

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And it's not just the eyewitness testimony stuff that's there from the first century. It's not just simply the external sources you can draw from, from the first century, whether it's

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Flavius Josephus in his history, um, whether it's Suetonius Tacitus, all the external stuff that talks about Christ and crucified in a

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Pontius pilot and his followers are still around to this day. It's not just those things. Why do we believe

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Jesus rose from the dead? Well, the fact of the matter is as Christians believe Jesus rose from the dead again, not just because of the eyewitness testimony of the real historical event of the resurrection and the empty tomb, but we believe in the resurrection because actually the

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Bible old and new Testament is, is one revelation from God. There's an older Testament and a newer

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Testament, one revelation from God. And what I think Joe would be fascinated to learn about, and I would love to sit down and talk to him about this, is that the old

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Testament long before Jesus comes in, tells you every detail necessary to know

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Jesus as savior, as Lord before he even steps into history in the incarnation, taking on flesh,

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God taking on flesh. So the old Testament is just filled with prophecy and I don't mean, and I think

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Joe would respect this. I don't mean the kind of like Nostradamus kind of prophecies that are really vague and you can, so it's malleable.

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You can plug anything into it, but prophecies that are identity specific, like for example, there's only one true and living

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God according to scripture, only one God. He's the first to last the beginning and the end. There's none before him, none after him.

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He's the eternal God. He's existed from all eternity into all eternity, Psalm 90 verse two.

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And it says in Isaiah nine, six through seven, a book that we have a copy of from the

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Dead Sea Scrolls that predates Christ by about 200 years. We have a fully intact copy of it.

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It matches what we have in Isaiah to this very day. And in that book of Isaiah, so many prophecies, but Isaiah nine six through seven gives an identity of the

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Messiah that he is the mighty God. There's only one God. He's coming as a son and as a child, uh, he's coming to bring the kingdom of God into history, but it's identity specific.

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There's only one God and it's the eternal God coming as a son. And as a child, there's prophecy related to how he's going to die.

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Psalm 22, they'd pierce his hands and his feet. He'd be surrounded by people. They'd cast lots for his clothing.

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He would die for the sins of God's people. Isaiah 53, he'd be pierced through for our transgressions, crush for our iniquities, a chastisement for our wellbeing fell upon him.

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And by his wounds, we are healed. You also have all of that in terms of like his mission, what is he going to accomplish?

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Why is he actually coming? But you also have in prophecy like Isaiah 53, that he's going to die a violent death, and then he's going to prolong his days.

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He's going to see his offspring. He's going to actually live again. He would not see corruption according to the scriptures.

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And that was one of the things that early Christians were saying, Joe, they were saying to, to the people that had killed

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Jesus and had witnessed him being murdered on that cross by the Romans, they were saying, look, these prophecies from the old

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Testament scriptures, this is one story from God. It's one revelation. And this ought not to have surprised us because it says that the

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Holy one of God would not see corruption. And they were making a point. Look, in all the heroes in the past, like King David, he's dead.

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We know where his tomb is. He's still dead. He saw corruption, but there was a prophecy about the one who was coming who would not stay dead.

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He was going to die for the sins of God's people. And then he was going to rise again from the dead.

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He would not see corruption. So, and that was one thing, Joe, that Jesus said to his followers when they were shocked after he told them he was going to be alive from the dead, he'd be crucified and killed in three days later, he'd rise again.

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They were still shocked that he was actually alive because they know people don't come back from the dead and here's

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Jesus. They saw him murdered on that tree and now he's alive in front of them. And he says to them at the end of the gospel, according to Luke that they were foolish and slow of heart to believe of all that the prophets had spoken.

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So Joe, when you say, you know, do you really believe that Jesus rose again from the dead?

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Um, do you really believe that he walked on water? The answer is yes. And the reason why is that's not just a blind faith commitment.

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Scripture actually condemns false faith or stupid faith or a stupid kind of blind trust.

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That's just ignorant. The Christian faith condemns that kind of faith. It's a faith in what's actually true.

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It's a faith that of course is that comports with the evidence and the facts.

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It's, it's not a blind, stupid faith. So we don't believe in Jesus just because it makes us feel really good and we'd love it if somebody really came back from the dead.

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Now we believe Jesus is alive from the dead because God promised it was going to happen. It happened historically in history.

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You could of course demonstrate that with the eyewitness testimony, the evidence is both externally outside the

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Bible and internally. You could demonstrate that and have that conversation. But the point is is that God was coming as a man to save his people from their sins.

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And so what do you expect? Cause you asked the question, you believe you're really walked on water. And the answer is, well, yes, because the claim of scripture from the old

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Testament and new Testament is that Jesus is unique in that he is God incarnate.

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He's God in the flesh. So I would pose this question to Joe. If I had a chance to sit in front of him, Joe, just take it as a hypothesis for now, right?

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Like not that you accept it for the moment, but take it as a hypothesis. Like what would it look like if the eternal

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God, the all powerful God did condescend to take on flesh, to become a man, to save people from their sins?

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Would he have power over life and death? Would he be able to raise little boys and girls from the dead?

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Like he did in the new Testament? Would he be able to raise Lazarus his friend from the dead who was dead for days?

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Would he be able to raise himself from the dead? What would it look like to have God, the only God, the true

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God, the all powerful God to come and walk among us? If he walked among us, what would he be like?

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Would he be perfect? Would his followers who saw his life and ate with him, slept with him, walked with him for years, would they say that he's the righteous one?

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He is perfect and wise. He has no sin. Because that's exactly what the witnesses and the writers of the new

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Testament said about Jesus, that he was the blameless one. He was righteous. And get this Joe, it wasn't just like the apostles, uh, like Peter and, uh, and, and Paul and, and, and those sorts of things.

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It was James, the Lord's brother, that the James, the Lord's brother is an historical figure.

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You can read about him outside the new Testament itself. He was martyred for his faith in his brother as God.

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And that his brother was the only one who could take away sins. I mean, what would it take Joe for you to believe that your brother was

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God in the flesh? James followed his brother as God because he saw his life.

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He knew his life and he was perfect. Would you expect God to be perfect? And this gets more to your point,

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Joe, would you expect God if he took on flesh and became a man, would you expect him to have control over his own creation?

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Like for example, healing the sick, giving eyesight to the blinds, giving the lame their legs back.

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Um, would you expect him to be able to control the physical world? Like walk on water?

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Uh, would you be expecting to be able to perform miracles like feed 5 ,000 with only a few fish and bread?

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Uh, would you expect that? And the answer, I think if we're honest and again, not that you accept it, but if God became a man, what would it be like if he walked among us?

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And that's what you see in the life and ministry of Jesus. So yes, we believe that Jesus died and that he rose again for many, many, many reasons, especially because God had promised it was going to happen.

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Um, but in terms of the last stuff that was talked about, you know, are you new Testament Christian, the old Testament Christian, uh, that for Christians historically would be a false dichotomy.

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Now I would grant this, Joe, I would grant this. You've probably talked to modern evangelicals or Christians today that have said things like, you know,

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I'm a, I believe in a new Testament. I'm a new Testament Christian, but you should just know that's historically not the position of the

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Christian church to make that kind of dichotomy. Like I'm, I'm the new Testament guy, not the old Testament guy, same

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God, same revelation, same book, older Testament before Jesus comes new

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Testament, eyewitness testimony, those who walked with Jesus and knew Jesus. And that's what you have, but it's the same

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God, same revelation. Well, the new testaments, well, the new

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Testament was made by Constantine. It was a Roman emperor who wasn't even Christian.

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He didn't even believe it. He was, he was, he was, he was, he became a Christian on his deathbed.

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Like that's when he became a Christian. Like all these people that are really into the new Testament and like, I'll talk about old

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Testament and people get mad at me on Twitter. They'll send me this hate texts. You understand what the difference is between the old

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Testament, the new Testament, because the new Testament is utter. It's created by a Bishop and a emperor.

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That's a fact. That's like established religious fact. Except unfortunately for Joe here, and he may have learned, uh, since this, uh, that's not a fact at all.

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It's the, it's the farthest thing from a fact. And anybody who has any familiar air familiarity with the new

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Testament itself and how we got the new Testament, uh, knows that that is one of the most bogus claims ever.

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Um, Constantine of course was emperor in Rome. And of course, through the edict of Milan and three 13, uh,

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Christianity finally became a religion that had freedom, uh, to be, um, uh, out in the open.

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It no longer was Christians being thrown to the lions and all those sorts of things. And so, yes, the emperor

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Constantine, of course, um, uh, allows religious freedom, three 13, edict of Milan, all that took place.

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So yes, but, uh, Constantine has nothing to do with the new Testament's nothing to do with the canon of the new

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Testament. And of course, even the council of Nicaea, uh, people have, uh, suggested in its mythology, that the council on Nicaea is where we, we put together the

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Bible and anybody who knows church history or his history at all, even bothered to look into it, knows the council and Nicaea had nothing to do with the canon of scripture.

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It had to do with, um, actually putting down a heresy, uh, of, of someone named areas of Alexandria that was teaching, uh, false things about who

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Jesus was that the church historically would reject. And so the council and I see, I had nothing to do with the canon of scripture, putting together the

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Bible. And so, uh, so yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's popular mythology.

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Um, it's complete fiction. It's totally bogus. And all it would take is probably five to 10 minutes on a

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Google search to discover that that's absolutely not religious fact. It is actually, um, uh, let's call it atheist fiction.

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Um, but, uh, but again, uh, this is old stuff from Joe. I don't know if he's been corrected at this point and he would say, well, you know,

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I got that wrong, but it's important for Christians to be able to respond to it because it's not just the atheists that make those kinds of bogus claims and sort of, you know, extend that mythology about the

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Bible, but it's also some cults will say it as well. Like I've had conversations with Mormons and Jehovah's witnesses who have made those sorts of claims.

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The truth of the matter is, is, uh, the, the, the issue of Constantine counts and I see a nothing to do with the canon of scripture, nothing to do with how we got the new

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Testament at all. Uh, actually the historic, um, uh, study of how we got this free transmission of the text of the new

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Testament is actually amazing. We're going to get into some more of that in a minute here, but just the idea that, um,

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Constantine had something to do with the canon of scripture. Again, totally bogus. You can look at, um, fragments we have of, of the gospel, according to John, that, um, shows that's wide transmission, even into Egypt in the second century itself, not long after the passing of the apostles, um, with P 52, you have other papyrus and fragment of the new

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Testament itself that are in the very early centuries. And you have, of course, early listings of books from Christians spread across the empire, uh, that would just demonstrate that this is just historic fiction.

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Um, the new Testament itself is the revelation of God. It comes from eyewitness testimony of those who are with Jesus or those who were with those who are with Jesus.

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And we have the new Testament over 5 ,800 manuscript pieces and copies of the new

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Testament documents themselves, uh, that get us back to the autographer or the original writings.

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And so Paul writes the autographer, John writes the autographer, his original writing, and that was passed with a free transmission.

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Nobody was in control of it. There's no overseeing organization. It is just a free transmission of the text, uh, with Christians who were on the run for their lives.

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They're being slaughtered by Rome hunted down by Nero in the first century. All that stuff is taking place and they're making copies of, of the autographer of the inspired writings of whether Paul's writings or whether it's

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John's or Luke's or Peter's or whatever. And there's a free transmission of the text. And we have today over 5 ,800 manuscript copies and pieces of the new

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Testament documents themselves. Uh, and some of the fragments we have date back early, early and close.

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I mean, some people argue that the gospel according to John fragment that we have, uh, with P 52, some people have argued that it dates, uh, uh, before the turn of, of the first century into the second century.

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Some have argued 125 AD, but it shows wide circulation amongst Christian communities, even down into Egypt, into the second century.

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And so this conversation we're going to extend, but you can look at the Muratorian fragment or Muratorian canon and see the lists, the early lists of Christians of their inspired texts.

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Uh, but the point is, is all this was being transmitted and passed along by Christians and they're holding onto their lists of canons and all that stuff long before Constantine, long before the council

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Nicaea. And so what's being propagated here is just, again, it's, it's fiction.

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It's a myth. And unfortunately, somebody told that to Joe and he believed it.

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He may not believe it anymore. I'm going to show him the respect and the grace to say that maybe after this he got some correction.

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But again, we're doing this because you need to know how to respond to these sorts of things and you need to know where you got your

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Bible from. And we're going to get more of that here. Hey, what's up guys. This is pastor Jeff Durbin. Thank you for watching collision.

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We wanted to provide a solid resource to help you to respond to anything coming into collision with the

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