September 21, 2017 Show with Jeremy Walker on “What is Repentance?”

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This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 21st day of September 2017, and it's such a pleasure to have back on the program someone who

I truly love interviewing. That's Jeremy Walker, who is pastor of Maiden Bower Baptist Church in Crawley in West Sussex, England.

He's also an author and blogger at Reformation 21 and The Wanderer. Today we are addressing a very valuable little booklet that he has written, published by Reformation Heritage Books, titled,

What is Repentance? And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Jeremy Walker.

Hello again, thanks for having me back on, I appreciate it. Hey, I appreciate it more than you, brother, and we have in studio with us today again our co -host, the

Reverend Buzz Taylor. And it's always good to be here. If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question, our email address is

ChrisArntzen at gmail .com. ChrisArntzen at gmail .com, that's C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

And please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the

USA. I could readily understand that a subject like repentance might evoke questions from people who have very personal and intimately private matters that they want to ask

Pastor Jeremy Walker about. And so I will completely understand if you request to remain anonymous.

But if it's not for a reason such as that, please, if it's just a general theological question, please give us at least your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence.

Well, Pastor Jeremy, if you could, even though you've been on this program a number of times already, we have new listeners that appear to be joining us nearly every day on Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio.

And so therefore, many people might be unfamiliar with you, and they might be unfamiliar with, therefore,

Maiden Bower Baptist Church. If you could explain a little bit about Maiden Bower Baptist Church of Crawley in West Sussex, England.

Sure. The church itself was planted in the early 1970s and formally constituted in 1975 in Crawley, which is exactly halfway between the center of London and a town called

Brighton on the south coast. That's a 50 mile line. We're halfway down it right next to one of London's major airports,

Gatwick. The church was established as a particular Baptist church, a confessional

Baptist church. We've been part of the community in Crawley since we were established, and God has blessed us many ways.

We enjoy opportunities to preach the gospel in the area. We've seen blessings and mercies and had our fair share of battles and struggles as well.

It's kingdom life in a fallen world. We're not a huge congregation, but we enjoy a measure of peace and unity among ourselves, and it's a privilege and a pleasure to serve

God with his people in this part of the world. Amen. Well, I want to make sure that our listeners hear this really profound endorsement for this little book from a friend of mine that I've known since 1995, who has been a guest on this program a number of times, who

I have heard preach in person a number of times, and that's Dr. Conrad Mbewe, pastor of the

Kubwata Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia, Africa. Dr.

Mbewe says, reading Jeremy Walker's pamphlet, What is Repentance, feels like following a physician of souls into a spiritual operating room and seeing him lay open the human heart.

He first briefly shows us the nature of sin and its devastating consequences.

Then with precision, he uses a surgeon's scalpel to skillfully separate false and true repentance so that we may truly find salvation in Jesus Christ.

This is a book every Christian should read and place in the hands of those who are seriously inquiring about the way to life.

And that is quite an endorsement from someone as gifted and as knowledgeable as our friend

Dr. Conrad Mbewe. Well, I think it might be helpful, even though to many of our listeners it might seem like a redundant thing, but I think it's a very important thing because there is so much error in regard to the subject of repentance and there's so much disagreement in the body of Christ and among those who profess to be a part of the body of Christ in regard to this subject.

So if you could define repentance. Sure. My working definition actually would be a thorough and radical change of the heart that results in a thorough and radical change of the life.

But you have to really establish what sort of change of heart and what sort of change of life.

So when I'm thinking of it, I actually come down to what I think is one of the finest brief definitions, which is found in the

Shorter Catechism, which reads in this way. Repentance unto life is a saving grace, whereby a sinner, out of a true sense of his sin and apprehension of the mercy of God in Christ, does with grief and hatred of his sin, turn from that sin unto

God with full purpose of and endeavor after new obedience. I happen to think that that's one of two or three of the finest questions and answers in the whole of that catechism, but that gets to the nub of the thing.

We know by God's grace, we come to know what sin really is and God in his mercy opens our eyes to see that the mercy he holds out in Christ.

And so having learned to hate our sin, we turn from that sin, we turn to God with the desire that sin forever be left behind by us, and in dependence upon the

Lord Jesus Christ and the work of the Spirit in us, we set out to do what is pleasing to him from that point forward.

Excellent. And this issue is something that is misunderstood and twisted from those who profess to be

Christian on polar opposite ends of the spectrum. You have the

Church of Rome on one hand, who would require the necessity of repentance because they believe that the works that it produces are meritorious or cooperate with grace in order to achieve salvation and be justified before God.

And then on the other end of the extreme or the other opposite extreme of the spectrum, you have those who are modern -day evangelicals who are guilty of the sin of what has become known as easy believism or cheap grace, repentant -less

Christianity or a repentant -less gospel, who would agree that if you insist upon repentance as being a litmus test for someone who is truly born again, they would agree that that would involve works that are meritorious, that are adding to the faith that justifies an order to be made right with God, and that's why they reject it.

They reject the necessity of repentance because they actually agree with Rome's understanding of it.

But both of these two opposite ends of the spectrum are completely wrong on this, aren't they?

Yeah, there is no saving virtue in that sense in repentance itself.

Repentance is not some kind of necessary preparation for salvation.

It's not something that God looks at and says, well, now that you've repented, I will show you mercy.

It's similar to faith in that sense, in that it's a renouncing of everything else.

It's a confessing that everything else is in itself worthless. And we do need to be careful, as you know, that we don't then fall into the trap of saying, well, then salvation can occur without repentance.

But at the same time, repentance in itself is not something that merits

God's favor. Amen. And we who are

Bible -believing Christians and historically faithful Protestants, Reformed Christians, we believe that it is only the works of Christ himself that contribute to our salvation.

In fact, his work on Calvary is the sole thing that we put our hope and trust in, as the only way that we could ever be welcomed into the open arms of God after leaving this earth, entirely because of the merits of Christ, correct?

Sure. And the scriptures are explicit. They make very clear that repentance is itself a gift that God gives.

It's certainly, it's a command that God issues. We're told in Acts 17 that God commands all men everywhere to repent.

That is true, but also earlier in that history, we're told that God granted to the

Gentiles repentance to life. So repentance is a grace that is purchased by Christ in his death.

It's part of that wonderful complex of saving blessings that Christ has secured for us and that he dispenses to us.

And the Reverend Buzz Taylor has something to say. I don't know if you remember, Chris, but in the question and answer session at the

ECT conference that we've both seen the video of, it was

D. James Kennedy who answered the question concerning repentance being a work. And he said, it's no less a work than faith is.

You know, people think, faith is not a work, but repentance would be. He said, faith is just as much a gift of God as repentance.

They're both gifts, as we just heard. They're both gifts of God. And when you were talking about the ECT conference, you're talking about the reformed rebuttal to the

ECT, which is evangelicals and Catholics. Right, exactly, the rebuttal to it. And any comments on that,

Jeremy? No, that seems to me to be a reasonable response.

That's anchored in scripture. We have a listener in Slovenia, Joe, who already has sent in a question to us.

He says, thanks for bringing Brother Jeremy back to bless us again today. I've not heard preachers or teachers highlight or stress that repentance is a grace given to us by the kindness of our sovereign

Lord in Romans 2 .4. Is this common or just my experience? Please flesh out this aspect of repentance for us in light of the fact that without God's drawing and convicting us to repent, we would be forever lost in our sin.

Thank you for your faithful edification of God's people. Well, you already touched on that a bit, but perhaps you could expand on it.

I'm not sure why our listener in Slovenia hasn't heard this often. I have heard it often exclusively amongst reformed preachers and teachers.

He would be right if he was including in that mix modern evangelicals. But if you could comment.

Well, he's mentioned Romans 2 and verse 4, which says, do you despise the riches of God's goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?

I think that's an important point that it's captured really in that catechism question that we quoted earlier, that it's not just a recognition of sin, but it's also apprehending, getting a grasp on the mercy of God in Christ, that God is ready to receive the one who returns to him.

And so there's something then, while we're driven from sin, we're also drawn to God in Christ.

Now, I wasn't quite sure what our Slovenian friend thought was present or absent, what was missing or otherwise.

But I think it is important on the one hand that we do emphasize that what the old

Puritans called the sinfulness of sin, the horrors of hell, that those things are designed to make sin vile in our eyes when we see it as against God and worthy of his punishment.

But at the same time, it's vitally important that we show that the compassion, the mercy of God, his readiness to receive sinners, his joy over one sinner who repents, that's emphasized in that parable in three parts in Luke's gospel, that there is joy in the presence of the angel, that there is, if you will, delight in the heart of God when a sinner repents and returns to him.

So I think it's vitally important that we really hold before men and women in preaching that the whole character of God, his holy glory and majesty and his holy hatred of sin, but also is alongside of that fearful justice, that sweet mercy and that gospel compassion by which he calls sinners to himself.

And the Reverend Buzz Taylor has something else to say. First of all, I wonder what took Joe so long to ask a question. But perhaps what he's looking for,

I'm not sure exactly what he's after, but... Well he was saying basically he hardly ever hears any preachers and teachers say that repentance is a gift of God.

Yes, yes. And what I can't get around as far as that's concerned is where when the early church acknowledged, the early

Jewish church recognized that the gospel had gone out to the Gentiles also, the remark that's made in scripture is, so God has granted to the

Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life. Yep. Amen.

And I think that's an important point to emphasize. Repentance like faith does not come from an unregenerate heart.

Until God works life in us, there is no move toward him, there is no response to those overtures of grace that there are in the gospel.

And yet at the same time, we need to say that God commands us to repent. God tells everyone that our sin is vile, that we ought to leave it behind, turn to him, flee to him in order that we might have mercy.

So again, there are different emphases at different points, all of which need to be brought out.

So I certainly wouldn't want in any way to undermine the graciousness of God in granting to sinners this repentance.

God exalted Christ to his right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 5 31, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. And yet not long before that, you've got the commandment that Peter is using at Pentecost, and then afterwards in Solomon's porch, repent, and let every one of you be baptized.

Repent and be converted that your sins may be blotted out. So there's a forceful command that comes.

And again, within there, there's something of that effectual call by which repentance is drawn out of the renewed heart.

And Reverend Buzz Taylor has something else to say. I think it's amazing when you read through the New Testament, how many references there are to repentance.

And yet in evangelical preaching that is supposedly evangelistic, you know, to lead people to Christ, you hear the word so seldom.

In fact, what I like to ask people is ask any evangelical to fill in the blank to this sentence.

This is when the rich man was speaking with Father Abraham in Hades, when he lifted up his eyes and he was in torment, and he said, hey,

I have five brothers. He said, send Lazarus to my brothers, because if somebody, you know, and of course,

Father Abraham said, they have Moses and the prophets. Let them hear them.

And he said, well, no, but if somebody goes back from the dead, they will blank.

What would you put in that blank? Because most people today, they know the passage, they're familiar with scripture.

They'll say something like they'll get saved or they'll believe when the actual word that's used is repent. And we do that many times with passages to repentance.

You mean that the rich man says they'll repent. The thing that the rich man knew that his brothers needed to do to not end up there was to repent.

Right, right. But if you ask the average evangelical today to fill in the blank, what word would they use to fill that in?

They would say they would believe or whatever. And of course, he was wrong that they would repent just because.

Exactly. And that was proven. But the point is that was the word that was used. That was the thing that was needed to keep them away from that.

Right. Yeah. I say in the book, repentance is too often overlooked as faith's ugly cousin when she ought to be celebrated as a beautiful twin sister.

We sweep repentance. And I think if that's what our friend is saying in Slovenia, yeah, we or that we're saying now, rather, we sweep repentance to one side.

It's something perhaps it impacts on our sense of self -esteem, whatever it is we're supposed to be celebrating.

It doesn't really fit with our notion that we're fundamentally sorted out, that we're doing things reasonably rightly, that we're not such great sinners.

I've had conversations even recently trying to enforce, explain, adorn the good news.

And I remember saying in one instance, talking to somebody, this is wonderful good news for sinners like me and you.

And the person to whom I was speaking was dumbfounded. But I'm not a sinner.

What makes you think I fit into that category? And yet, repentance, as we've just been saying, repentance is a fundamental part of the gospel address, the gospel call.

It's repent and believe. Turn from your sins, turn to God in Christ, and there is everlasting life.

Yeah, just to clarify or further clarify what Reverend Buzz Taylor brought up, I think it really highlights the doctrine of unconditional election, because it's interesting that Abraham knew that even if one were to rise from the dead, meaning

Lazarus, and he were to warn the rich man's brothers, even that miracle as shocking and perhaps even as horrifying and terrifying as that miracle would have been, if they were not of the elect, they would not have repented, because they already had the scriptures.

They had what they needed to know in order to inherit eternal life.

And yet, so since they already rejected those scriptures, it was a sign that they were not of the elect, and a sign that even if one were to rise from the dead, which was even proven later on with Christ's own resurrection, even that isn't going to convince a lifeless sinner apart from the regenerating work of the

Holy Spirit. Well, yes, and it's also noteworthy that there was coincidentally a man named

Lazarus who was raised from the dead, and what did the Bible say? They sought to put Lazarus to death also.

Right. Yeah, amazing stuff. I think the main point in that passage is the sufficiency, the clarity of scripture, that all these people who have the

Word of God, they have all that is needful in order to turn from their sins to God.

And I think it wasn't just Lazarus, when we have the one who rose from the dead, you know,

Christ's resurrection in that sense is the great demonstration of possible validity, and yet men live with their fist raised against God and his gospel.

These things are not in themselves adding to the persuasiveness, if you like, of scripture.

They confirm it, certainly, but if you have the Word of God, you have all that you need, you have all the light that is required, that a personal confrontation, if you like, by the risen

Christ or anybody else, will not add to the Word of God in the face of a rebellious heart.

Amen. We have Andrew in Avon Lake, Ohio, and every time

I read that city, Avon Lake, I am reminded instantly of my childhood neighborhood, actually my neighborhood even through adulthood, in Amityville, Long Island, New York.

It was in Avon Lake, just a few minutes from my home. But Andrew in Avon Lake, Ohio, says,

I wonder if Pastor Walker might explain why so many dispensationalists have been so staunchly against the doctrine of repentance and what effect that has had on modern evangelicalism.

Very interesting question, because of course we have to immediately give a caveat here. There are many dispensationalists that would denounce as heresy those fellow dispensationalists of theirs who would not require faith as necessary for salvation, like John MacArthur is a classic example, who wrote the book,

The Gospel According to Jesus, and the subsequent other books that were intended to continue to flesh out and clarify that very issue of the necessity of repentance.

And of course, a very dear friend of mine, Ron Glass, who sponsors this program, he is the pastor of Waiting River Baptist Church on Long Island, New York.

He is a dispensationalist, a very unapologetic, unwavering dispensationalist, who also happens to be a thoroughgoing

Calvinist, and he believes in the necessity of repentance. So we don't want to broad brush, but do you have any answer to that?

And I believe that Andrew must have meant that they're so staunchly against the doctrine of repentance, what he means,

I'm assuming, is the necessity of repentance, because I don't think any conservative

Bible -believing Christian would be against repentance. Requiring it as a litmus test,

I believe, is what he means. Yeah, that's not something

I've come across. I can guess what he has in mind, but I don't want to presume and sort of speak evil.

So I wonder, perhaps, Chris, if you or could perhaps identify what you think the particular issue there within the dispensational mindset might be that would produce that kind of error?

I think it has, maybe look at it, all's I know, and this is a guess, first of all, he is correct.

Like, for instance, when Dr. MacArthur wrote the Gospel According to Jesus in the 1980s, the biggest outcry against that book, which was saying that repentance was necessary for salvation, was coming from members of the faculty of Dallas Theological Seminary, very strongly dispensationalist school, and many people who would agree with those faculty members.

And of course, it's been a while, and the faculty, I think, has changed and has additions to that faculty that would agree with us on this,

I believe, since then. But the only thing that I can get out of it, from what

I recall during that controversy, was because dispensationalism so far separates the

Old Covenant from the New Covenant, and also wrongly, and I don't want to broad brush, keep in mind, and I'm not saying that all dispensationalists do this, but it seems that many are guilty of thinking that the

Gospel of the Old Covenant was a dispensation of works that meant that men's deeds did, in fact, contribute to their salvation, and that when the

New Covenant was ushered in, that this is when salvation was, for the first time, by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.

And so therefore, they wrongly think that, just as I was mentioning earlier, that repentance includes within it the idea, or the requirement of repentance includes within it that one must have meritorious deeds that somehow aid in his justification.

They think it's a violation of the doctrine of justification by grace alone through faith alone, and they are wrong in assuming that.

But Reverend Buzz Taylor, do you have anything? Am I correct, do you think? I think so, but I haven't seen much of a trend in that direction myself, having once been dispensational myself, because I was preaching repentance long before I ceased being a dispensationalist.

But I have heard before of some, there are strings of ultra -dispensationalists that, for example, would believe that the

Lord's Prayer and the Great Commission and all that is for Israel and not the

Church. You know, they go into some wild stuff. That may be what he's referring to, that...

Well, how would that connect with repentance? They would say that repentance was for the Jews, for the rejection of Jesus as the

Messiah. Now, that's sort of confirming what I thought might be the answer, that when you overemphasize what, from my perspective, you know, there is quite clearly a progression in revelation.

Things become clearer, the promises of God, as it were, spring into sharper relief as you work your way through the

Scriptures. But there's the danger of overemphasizing some of those discontinuities, if you like, especially the

Old Testament, the Old Covenant into the New. You end up, perhaps, and again,

I'm not suggesting that this is what every dispensationalist might believe, or even any, perhaps.

But when you start sort of presuming that almost God's character, if not his nature, but perhaps his character changes, the way he deals with people changes,

I think you look from... My answer would basically be, look from the beginning to the end of Scripture, and you will see that whether they're looking forward to the

Messiah who was to come, or looking back at the Messiah who had come, that the people of God in every generation are saved by turning from their sins to God.

And again, in the booklet here, we're using texts from the Old and the

New Testament to show the unity in that respect, that whether you're talking about the patriarchs, the prophets, or the day of Pentecost, or the mission to the

Gentiles, however and wherever, God is calling upon sinners to turn from their sins and to trust in him.

Now, we're not denying the fact that there is development and progression in that revelation, but fundamentally, sinners are always pointed to God's provision of a sacrifice for sins, and they receive that in turning from their sins to lay hold of what

God has provided in Christ Jesus. And we're going to pick up when we return from our break with a comment or question from Reverend Buzz Taylor, so don't forget what you are going to say.

We have to go to our break right now. If anybody would like to join us, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com, and please give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside the

USA, and you may only remain anonymous if it's about a personal and private matter. And thank you,

Andrew, in Avon Lake, Ohio. You have also won a free copy of the booklet we are talking about today,

What is Repentance? Compliments of Reformation Heritage Books and Compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com,

cvbbs .com. We'll be shipping that out to you in Avon Lake, Ohio.

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Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio Pastor's Luncheon in honor of Reformation Day. Well, we are back to our discussion with Pastor Jeremy Walker of Maiden Bower Baptist Church of Crawley in West Sussex, England.

We are discussing his booklet that he has written for Reformation Heritage Books, What is

Repentance? And before the break, the Reverend Buzz Taylor had something to say. I just wanted to add a little bit to, before we leave, the idea of dispensationalism and the so -called lack of repentance, our teaching on it, and that was when

I said ultra -dispensationalists, the only ones I've ever heard dispensationalism taken to that limit was from, it was actually from the

United Pentecostals, which most of us would would deem as a cult anyway, because they deny the

Trinity and they believe in, you know, baptismal regeneration and a whole bunch of other things.

But I find it's also very interesting that for those who think that dispensationalism, that repentance was only for Jews, the very passage where it says that God commands all men to repent was made specifically to Gentiles.

Huh, that's interesting. By the way, you mentioned oneness Pentecostals. I know firsthand from interacting with them that they are guilty more of the

Romish fallacy of that works must cooperate with... Well, when you think of the fact that I might not be saved because when

I was underwater being baptized, I didn't hear what he said. What does that have to do with repentance?

If the pastor said the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit instead of the name of Jesus while I was in the water,

I would be coming up unsaved because they say that if you were baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, you're not saved.

Yeah, but I don't understand how that connects with denying... Well, it doesn't. You mentioned about their Romish ways, and I'm saying when, you know, they take salvation by works to an even greater limit to where...

Oh, you're saying that they were erring on the opposite end of denying repentance. Oh, I see. Yeah, well, yeah,

I agree with you there. I just missed your train of thought there. Right, yeah. The main thought there was, you know, it's not like we would be taking them too seriously anyway.

Right. But I haven't heard it from, you know, conservative evangelicals, so I don't know. You know, if that's a trend,

I'm not aware of it. Yeah, well, yeah, obviously, I do know that he is correct in that the greatest outcry against John MacArthur and those pushing for what has been known now as lordship salvation or the requirement of repentance as a sign of true salvation and justification, and that's a sign of that.

It came from dispensationalists, so... We do have Daniel in San Jose, California, who says,

Can you ask Brother Jeremy to explain why or how the doctrine of biblical repentance has taken on the idea of being nothing more than apologizing for our sin and not actually turning and mortifying them?

Does this false notion derive from the idea that we have the ability to live the Christian life by our own free will and apart from the

Holy Spirit? That's a very interesting question. Yeah, I couldn't answer where it comes from with respect to a sense of our own sufficiency for some of these things, but I do think there's a real danger with regard to what he mentioned in the first part of the question about essentially a watering down of repentance.

Now, there are some very basic gospel presentations that talk, for example, about saying,

Sorry, please, and thank you. I understand what the intention of those would be, but I think a friend of mine talks about this, say, for example, with regard to his children, and it plays into the whole issue of forgiveness.

So his child might come, and the child would disobey, and he would say, you know, the child would say,

I'm sorry I did this, Dad, and his dad would say, well, I'm sorry too, son, but what are we going to do about it?

This idea of sorrow for sin could be, doesn't have to be, but it could be remorse.

Judas felt remorse when it was specifically told that when the

Lord Jesus was condemned. He was sorry that it had happened. He was sorry for his part in it, but he never turned back to God.

Well, it's possible to be sorry for your sins. It's possible to be sorry that you've done it, sorry that you'll be punished for it, sorry that you've been found out because of them, whatever it may be, but forgiveness is granted to the repenter, and that's true both, if you like, on the vertical plane with regard to God, and on the horizontal level between men, that we're to forgive one another just as God in Christ has forgiven us.

Well, what does that mean? It means that when we come to this accurate sense of our sin, we turn to the offended one.

We don't simply say, I'm sorry that this happened, but we say, will you forgive me?

I repent of this. I recognize it as an offense against you, and with regard to sin, it's primarily an offense against God, that I've sinned against you, as David says in Psalm 51.

Against you, you only have I sinned, and that's in a context where he's committed adultery and murder, but no, he sees his sin primarily in that vertical dimension.

I've sinned against God. I have offended against his holy law, and therefore,

I repent. In Job's language, I abhor myself. I repent in dust and ashes, and so yeah, there is a danger,

I think, that simply expressing that we are sorry does not really encompass the whole of the biblical notion of repentance.

Yeah, because it's a sign that you are being disingenuous, really.

You really have not truly repented of what you did. If you're not even going to make any effort to make restitution, remember what

Zacchaeus did after he truly repented. Now, that actually brings me to an interesting question.

What should we expect to see in someone who claims that they have repented?

Perhaps they have sinned against us personally, and perhaps even in a very horrific way.

What should we expect to see other than the verbal request for forgiveness before we deem someone's repentance as being authentic?

That's a fantastic question, and I think that the nub of the answer is found in that biblical phrase that we are to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance, to bring forth fruits fitting for repentance, and so I don't think that we make a judgment of charity, you might say.

Someone comes to me and says, I'm repenting of my sins. I think we say, well, that's wonderful, and then we look for the fruits of repentance.

We look for the evidences in life over time that someone has turned their back upon their sin.

Now, I think someone like John Owen here is very helpful when he talks about putting sin to death, because it would be wrong, say, for an angry man who has repented to have somebody then watch his life and to say, when he next gets angry, ah, see,

I told you, you're not really repenting, are you? Well, there are questions like, um, is he less angry than he was before?

Is he less often angry? Does he repent more rapidly of the expressions of sinful anger that bubble up in his heart?

Is he more aware of the differences? There are those sorts of questions, but I think what is vital is that there must be those fruits, must be that evidence.

Do you mind if I quote a little bit of the booklet here, Chris? Would that be helpful? Oh, yeah, definitely do that.

Okay, so I've got something here that says, real repentance always involves a turning from, a turning from sin and a turning to, to God.

Repentance issues in the pursuit of God and godliness, usually along precisely the same lines that sin repented of, and in the diametrically opposed direction, whether or not that is seen in the broadest strokes or in the fine details of life.

There is the same breadth and particularity here and the same dependence upon God and Christ. So here are some examples.

So the idolater will cast away his idols and be a worshiper of God alone. The angry man will repent of his anger and will pursue, not perfectly, but persistently and increasingly, self -control over his own spirit.

The man who curses will turn his back upon cutting and coarse speech and cultivate instead the wholesome tongue, which is a tree of life.

The pornographer will seek to cut off every channel through which filthy words and images flow into his life and patiently wait for or seek sexual satisfaction only through the legitimate means appointed by God.

The gossip will seek to speak words of life and health rather than wounding cruelty. The proud bully will humble himself before God and men and walk in meekness.

The lying child will seek always to speak truth. The resentful or careless wife and mother will cultivate a sacrificial spirit and invest in the sphere in which the

Lord has graciously placed her. The lazy father will prayerfully establish patterns of righteous spiritual headship in his family, denying his sluggish inclinations.

We will find the careless saint on his or her knees clinging to Christ the rock and pleading with God for present forgiveness and daily grace.

Arrogant church members will begin to esteem others better than themselves and cultivate a more properly

Berean spirit toward their pastors and teachers. Now that list is building on one slightly earlier in the book where I talk about the kinds of particular sins that we need to repent of, because repentance is particular.

And in fact, could you go through that list when we come back from our break, where I have to go to our next station, and I don't want to cut you off mid -sentence.

I'd rather you have the complete list in one segment rather than divide it up.

Okay, thanks Chris. All right, and if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

chrisarnsen at gmail .com, c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com. And thank you

Daniel in San Jose, California for that last excellent question, and you'll also be receiving a copy of the booklet

What Is Repentance by Jeremy Walker, complements of Reformation Heritage Books, and compliments of our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service at cvbbs .com,

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And I just realized that Pastor Jeremy Walker had to hang up.

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Jeremy Walker's back on the air with us. Sorry about that, Pastor Walker. But before we return to our discussion with Pastor Jeremy Walker, I want you to know that the

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Now we are back to our discussion with Jeremy Walker, pastor of Maiden Bower Baptist Church of Crawley in West Sussex, England.

We're discussing his booklet, What is Repentance?, and before the break, Pastor Walker was going to start reading a list of things that the

Bible requires we repent from. If you could, Pastor Walker. Sure, thanks

Chris. My point was that before the break, I read through a list in answer to a question of particular acts of repentance, or particular...

and my point was that earlier in the booklet that I've written, there's a list of the kinds of particular sins of which we ought to repent.

Sometimes you have someone who gives this sort of a generic apology, and that was the point of the question that was sent in.

Someone might say, well look, if I've offended in any way, I'm really sorry, and that's not,

I think, a properly repentant expression. It may have a good intention behind it, but we repent particularly of particular sins, and there ought to be then a particular response in which we pursue, if you like, the equal and opposite grace, and that this is what we look for in measure, as appropriate, looking for that growth in grace, that growing likeness to Christ, so that when someone says,

I am repenting, we're able to say, well, praise God that He's granted repentance to you, and then it's not unreasonable for us to say we're looking for the evidence of those things, and that will spare us many heartaches.

And I can remember years ago, my very first pastor,

Mike Gadosh, who was my very first pastor after my rebirth, that is, in the 1980s,

I can remember him giving an analogy to kind of give a vivid picture of what false repentance might look like in regard to something that may send the picture more completely home to the heart, so you really get an understanding of what's going on when somebody is falsely repenting.

He was giving the analogy, can you imagine that a man is engaged to be married to a woman, and she finds out that he has been unfaithful to her and has actually been having adulterous relationships, has been committing the sin of fornication with someone else, and then he says to her,

I am so sorry, please forgive me, please accept me as your husband, please don't call off the wedding, and then when the man is getting married, he comes strolling up the aisle to the minister to say his marriage vows with his bride -to -be, and he has linked on his arm a prostitute.

That is just as ridiculous and as ungenuine as someone who says, please forgive me,

God, I'm sorry, and then very lackadaisically and without any real brokenness before God just returns to the wickedness of his life, like a dog returning to his own vomit.

Would that illustration send a vivid picture to you that relates to what we're talking about? Absolutely.

Christ Jesus saves us from our sins. We are in our sins when he finds us, there's no doubt about that, but he saves us from those sins, not so that we might continue in them, and I think that's a good analogy.

I've left all this behind, but you're still indulging. Well, that's not the mark of repentance.

Amen. Now, we know from what we've already discussed what

Christians should look for, perhaps especially pastors, as a sign of true repentance in someone who is coming to God, who is professing to believe in Christ, who wants to be a

Christian, who wants to join the particular church where that pastor is serving, or perhaps he is somebody who's been under discipline and wants to be restored.

There should be some evidence of this repentance. Now, where do you go from there to the personal experience?

If you set aside church membership, church discipline, you're talking about one -on -one events, somebody does something horrible to you especially, something that without the aid of the

Holy Spirit would be considered an unforgivable sin especially, and I mean it doesn't have to be that severe, but I'm just using that as an extreme example.

When someone comes to us and says, I am sorry, please forgive me, what should we expect other than that to extend toward that person genuine forgiveness?

One of the reasons I ask that is because in our own circles of theological fellowship there is disagreement.

I'll give you two major names that I both revere as modern -day heroes who disagree on that.

We have Dr. John MacArthur, who we mentioned earlier, and Dr. J. Adams. John MacArthur believes and teaches, as do many

Christians and perhaps the majority of Christians, would teach that as soon as someone asks, please forgive me, you are to forgive them.

In fact, they don't even have to ask. As soon as somebody sins against you, you must immediately go to God and forgive that person.

Ask God for the ability to forgive them and you must forgive them even before they ask, even if they never ask.

Whereas Dr. J. Adams would say that you are to love your enemy and do good for him and pray for him, but forgiveness is a unique act that you should only bestow and declare to someone who has demonstrated repentance, because that is the way that God forgives.

If God did not forgive that way, hell would be empty. So if you could respond to those two different opposing views that are prevalent within Reformed circles.

Sure. Well, let me begin by offering a couple of preemptive clarifications, if you like.

When we say that we're looking for, you know, that turning one's back upon sin, without which it's not true repentance,

I think we do need to make sure that we understand, and I think perhaps what

Christ says to Peter when Peter was asking, how many times do I forgive my brother? This is helpful here, that we're not saying that without, if you like, without perfection in that regard, from that point onwards, we have cause to doubt repentance, especially if it's a bosom sin, if it's a constitutional sin.

There may be many and long battles with a particular sin, so what we're looking for is a genuinely repentant spirit that keeps fighting against that sin, that endeavors after new obedience, that fully purposes of it and pursues it, and therefore goes on repenting of a particular sin.

The other thing I think we need to emphasize is that when someone comes and says, you know,

I repented this, will you forgive me? Our disposition will be the first time, the second time, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, up to the 77th time, and by implication beyond, yes,

I am ready to forgive you. So there's a disposition to forgive and to go on forgiving the one who professes and goes on professing repentance.

Now that's different from somebody who basically said, look, I'm going to say

I'm sorry for this, and then I'm going to go back and do it again, and then I'm going to say sorry again, and then I'm going to go back again.

So there are two different cases there. With regard to then the specific question that you've asked,

I think that we are required by the gospel to have what you might call a forgiving disposition, that we are to be primed and ready to forgive, just as God is a forgiving

God. And Bob, by the way, I want to make it clear that both sides of that debate, both

Dr. MacArthur and Dr. J Adams would fully agree with that statement. Sure, yeah, absolutely. But I think for me to say

I am ready to forgive you, I think is right, but I'd be more probably on the

Adams side of that equation, in the sense that I think that in order for forgiveness to be extended in that sense, that there must be this genuine repentance.

That doesn't mean that I can fold my hands and sort of draw back and be cold and distant. I must show a constant and a consistent readiness to forgive.

But yeah, I think that forgiveness is a response to repentance, and that's a necessary part, if you like, of that gospel dynamic.

Yeah, and by the way, I want to also add Chris Braun's, B -R -A -U -N -S, has an excellent book called

Unpacking Forgiveness. It may be Unpacking Biblical Forgiveness, I can't remember right now, but it's definitely

Unpacking Forgiveness or Biblical Forgiveness, Chris Braun's. He would agree with Dr. Adams on that issue.

And I'm sorry? One of the things that the side that requires repentance for forgiveness is that they are saying that forgiveness is more than just not holding a grudge, or not holding animosity, or not holding on to a vengeful spirit.

Forgiveness is actually releasing someone of the debt and not holding them accountable for the sin that they've committed.

So therefore, when somebody sins against you and doesn't repent, you must hold them accountable.

If they are repeatedly and unrepentantly doing the same thing, you're not forgiving them and saying,

I no longer hold you accountable to this, you are no longer chained to the debt for this action.

So they're trying to clarify the difference between out -and -out forgiveness and loving your enemy and loving those who sin against you.

The side that Jay Adams and Chris Braun are taking are not saying that we're supposed to hold on to that vengeful spirit and not pray for our enemies and not do good to them.

It's merely saying that we cannot release them from the debt of what they have done unless they repent.

So I hope that that made it more clear to our listeners what those two things are about. Actually, we have a listener right now.

We have RJ in White Plains, New York, who asks, if what you are saying is correct in regard to not forgiving people unless they demonstrate repentance, how do you respond to what

Jesus said on Calvary when he said, Father, forgive them for they know not what they do? That's a very good question.

Do you have a response to that, Jeremy? I think fundamentally, yes, forgiveness belongs to God.

I think that that's a demonstration of that very spirit.

I don't want to sort of try and get into, if you like, mind games about the providences of God, but God does forgive those who have done these things.

He does so on the day of Pentecost when people who had crucified the

Lord Jesus obeyed Peter's command to repent. So I don't think that those things are in opposition to one another.

Right, and there is a very important element of what Jesus prayed. He said, for they know not what they do.

And he was also saying, he was asking the Father, Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.

He didn't just say, I forgive you. And he didn't say, I forgive you to everyone from the cross.

He didn't say, I forgive you, Pontius Pilate. I forgive you, Judas. You know, he didn't give a blanket statement of forgiveness.

He was specifically forgiving or asking for forgiveness for those who did not know what they were doing.

And Reverend Buzz Taylor? I think those who specifically did not know what they were doing were the Romans. The soldiers were carrying out the crucifixion.

They had no idea about a Jewish Messiah. But the Jews who did know, Jesus said, for example, when he was on the way to the cross, he said to the women who were weeping, don't weep for me, weep for me and your children for what's going to happen.

He was talking about the fact that judgment was going to come for their rejection of him as their Messiah. And of course, that's what the whole story of AD 70 is about, is the destruction of Judaism and the temple in Israel, of Jerusalem, because of their rejection.

That's also bound up with the whole command that Christ gives to his disciples. He had preached the gospel beginning at Jerusalem.

That's of a peace with the prayer that they might be forgiven. Yes. And of course, many of them were. But of course, as a body of politic, if I could say it that way, they were not because they were judged for it.

Yeah, sure. I just wanted to send you a greeting from our listener in Greensboro, North Carolina, Pastor Sterling Vanderwerker of Shepherd Fellowship in Greensboro, North Carolina, who says, no questions from me today, just wanted to encourage you both on the good questions and both of you chipping in.

So I just wanted to let you know that we have that greeting from Sterling. And now we are going to our final break.

And now is the time for you to write in if you intended to ask a question of Jeremy, but have not yet done so because we're rapidly running out of time.

There are a couple of people in front of you, but if you want to get in line, please send us an email quickly to chrisarnson at gmail .com,

chrisarnson at gmail .com. And please give us your first name, your city and state and your country of residence.

If you live outside of the good old USA and only remain anonymous, if it's about a personal and private matter, don't go away.

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Well, we are back now with our final 25 minutes or so with Pastor Jeremy Walker of Maiden Bower Baptist Church of Crawley in West Sussex, England.

And he is the author of a number of books, including the booklet that we are discussing today,

What is Repentance? If you'd like to join us on the air, do so now because we're rapidly running out of time.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com. Before I go to any of the listener questions,

I want to say, Pastor Jeremy, for a bit of a physical description of this booklet that you've written, this is an ideal booklet.

It's very often a very needed thing and a wonderful thing to have brief treatments of something that are not only more conducive for people to read them, especially if they're lost, but also to make them affordable to Christians to give them away in great numbers and even for churches to put them in track racks and so on and put them on tables in the narthex or the foyer of your church.

Tell us something about this booklet. Sure, it's very brief.

It's 30 pages long. I don't know if that sounds a lot or a little, but it's the same size as a booklet of a similar kind.

Like the Ultimate Questions booklet. Yeah, sure. That's probably a good comparison.

It's five inches by seven inches. What's that in centimeters for you

Europeans? That's 12 and a half centimeters by about 20.

Yeah, it'll fit in a little booklet rack, fit in a pocket or a bag very easily.

It's designed, as you say, to be a basic, simple introduction to the topic.

It's not going to be exhaustive. It's not necessarily going to answer all these questions, but God willing, it will give you some basic ideas of basic principles, basic portraits, basic suggestions for what it actually means in our life.

So yeah, it's either for unbelievers, to whom you might be saying, well, what is my response to the gospel?

Or for Christians who want to understand better what it means to be a repenter, which is one of the emphases of the book.

Repentance isn't something we just do once any more than faith is something that happened to us, but it's part of the ongoing experience of life in Christ.

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make a list, and then go to cvbbs .com and order them, because cvbbs .com is a sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And Reformation Heritage Books does not lose anything by you doing that. So that is killing two birds with one stone, as they say.

If you could explain to our listeners, especially those who are new Christians or perhaps not even

Christians at all, something about the parable of the prodigal son, because I think that parable contains within it the major vital elements of the discussion that we're having.

It includes within it repentance. It includes within it the willingness of the person who was sinned against having a heart prepared for forgiveness and ready to forgive.

And it also has, in regard to the other sibling involved, it reveals the person who is a sinful person who is unrepentant of his lack of forgiveness, his holding on to a grudge or holding on to a vengeful spirit, not wanting to see his brother who had squandered it all that their father gave him, and yet still being treated with a royal treatment while he is getting no special treatment that he could see, even though he has been at least outwardly faithful to his father without ever betraying him or departing from the family.

So if you could give us an outline of that parable and tell our listeners how it relates to what we're talking about.

Sure. Well, I think it's important to recognize that we could call that the third part of one parable.

At the beginning of Luke's 15th chapter, which is where that's recorded, we're told that the

Pharisees and scribes were murmuring against Jesus because he received sinners and ate with them, he enjoyed fellowship with them.

So he spoke this parable to them, one parable, and it's got these three pictures in it.

The first is of the wandering sheep, the second is of the lost coin, and the third is of the lost son, the rebelling son.

And I think it's helpful to see those three elements as each giving us a window into the state and condition of the sinner, and the mercy of God in seeking them out, and then the joy that there is in God in receiving the repenter.

So the first case, you've got obviously the wandering sheep, the shepherd is sent out to go and find the sheep, he finds that sheep, he brings him home rejoicing, and in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents, and over 99 just people who need no repentance.

The suggestion seeming to be that there are no just people who need no repentance, there are plenty of people who think that they are just and don't need to repent, there's no sin involved.

Then you've got the lost coin. Again, this coin is now inert, it's not responding, it needs to be sought out, it's found, and again there's joy in the presence of the angel of God, joy in God himself over the one sinner who repents.

And then you come to the third picture, and this is the one that is perhaps best known and most developed.

It's the rebellious son who essentially wishes his father dead, wants his inheritance brought forward, and goes and wastes everything he's received, living as if his father were dead and without any regard for him.

And there's a point in the parable, and you'll know Chris, and I hope your listeners will, that there's a danger sometimes in parables where we try and make every detail correspond precisely to some full -orbed spiritual reality, and there's a danger in that that we will overemphasize things that are descriptive rather than prescriptive.

But it is notable here that the son comes to himself, that there's an awareness that what he has done and where he is is wrong, and he says, listen, and my father's a good man, my father's a generous man,

I will go back to him and say, father I have sinned against heaven and before you, I'm no longer worthy to be called your son, make me like one of your hired servants.

I think there's something there then that repentance spirit. I've sinned against you and against God.

In the parable, the father is a representative of God, but in the picture he's saying, look, my sin has these vertical and horizontal dimensions.

And he comes, and then there's this wonderful picture of this father who's looking out for his son, who's eager for his return, what we've already talked about with regard to the disposition of God to forgive, slow to anger, quick to forgive, and that the father is represented as doing a most unexpected thing in the context.

He sprints out to his son, embraces him, and almost cuts off the expression of repentance.

The son sort of chokes out, father I've sinned against heaven and in your sight, I'm no longer worthy to be called your son.

But the father lavishes then this blessing upon his son, this free and full forgiveness.

There's an abundant restoration of the relationship. There's nothing that is held against this boy.

You're not going to work off the debt. No, no, you're my son once more. I'm going to pour out this goodness upon you.

And then you've got, at the end of that parable, you've got this representative of the murmurers.

He receives sinners and eats with them. Now, what's the deal with this dad, says the older brother?

I've always been the good guy, and you've never treated me like this. You've never shown...

And the father says, it's tragic. It really is.

It's a fearful response in some senses. You really have no idea what

I'm like, son, do you? You've never really grasped my disposition. You don't understand me in that sense.

Everything I have is yours. You're always with me. But what you don't understand is that it's right that we should rejoice over this returning son, this repenting sinner.

So it's a beautiful portrait in three parts of God's eagerness to seek out, find, draw back, receive, and rejoice over the sinner who repents.

It's a lesson for every Christian as to how we should think, how we should respond to those who come to God.

And it's an encouragement to every sinner to repent and to go on repenting because God is ready to receive.

And isn't, going back to our theme, repentance, isn't that evident here with the prodigal son?

Because he did not come back to his father and say, hey, sorry, dad, for all that nonsense that I just experienced, but I'm back home now.

So can one of the servants bring me a goblet of wine? I am parched and somebody spark up the fire for a barbecue.

I'm also famished. He didn't expect to have a restoration of the royal status that he had in that home anymore.

No, and again, this is the problem with the analogy because it, but he certainly, he knows something of his father's character, but there's always a sense which he barely dares to believe that it could be.

But as you say, he doesn't go back and demand that restoration. He doesn't go back and say, hey, dad, you know, bit of a goof there, bit of a botch.

Let's just sweep this all over the carpet and start over. Now that's something that the father bestows. That's a mercy and a grace that the father gives to the son.

You could almost argue that the prodigal son is almost struggling with the idea.

I'll work this off. You can't work this off, son. And you don't have to work this off.

This is something that I do with my own gracious and loving heart. And it does say, the parable does include the fact that before he arrives home, he is speaking to himself, the prodigal son, and he says,

I will get up and go to my father. And I will say to him, father, I have sinned against heaven. And in your sight,

I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Make me as one of your hired men.

So, I mean, there is this evidence that we have in the text that he was repentant. Sure, yeah, he knows.

I have forfeited everything. I have no right or entitlement to any good thing from you.

And that, I think, there's something of that in repentance. You know, I am utterly, sometimes we say we don't deserve

God's favor. Well, first of all, you cannot deserve mercy.

That's the very essence of mercy. But it's not just we are undeserving, we are ill -deserving.

Right. God's wrath and curse because of our sin. And that's one of the wonders of grace, that God not only spares us what we do deserve, but grants us what we could never deserve, because of the completed work of his son,

Jesus Christ, in whom our sins can be utterly washed away and the favor of God righteously bestowed upon an undeserving, hell -deserving sinner.

It's, again, you know, wonders of grace to God belong. Amen. I, quite a while ago, when preaching in a mission, a men's mission,

Bethesda mission in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, at the request of my congregation or my elders,

I preached from time to time to the men at this homeless shelter. And I was giving the analogy to clearly demonstrate the difference between unmerited favor and ill -merited favor.

And I said, if I were to walk up to somebody in the audience and just hand them a $100 bill for no reason at all, that would be unmerited favor.

But if one of those people in the audience tortured, raped, and murdered everyone in my family, and then in an attempt to burn my house down, they themselves were caught in the burning building.

And I, knowing what they did, ran in there and picked them up, put them on my shoulder, and carried them out of that burning building, and then donated a vital organ to that person who had just tortured, raped, and murdered my entire family, that would be more of a demonstration of what ill -merited favor is, as opposed to just merely being unmerited favor.

Does that ring true to you, that comparison? Yeah, I just think it's impossible almost to find an analogy or an illustration that really reached the heart and expressed the depths and heights of these gracious transactions which

God has with us in Christ. Those kinds of efforts, you do that and you feel like you're still sort of scratching the surface.

Right, because it's infinitely, infinitely greater when it comes to God and his forgiveness of us. And I think one thing that's significant in that is that it does underline, again, what the older writers sometimes called the sinfulness of sin, that when we rightly understand the holiness of God, then and only then can we understand the sinfulness of sin and the fact that we merit only damnation.

And that's why we must begin with preaching God in his justice and mercy, his righteousness and his truth, all of those things together.

God is the context of the gospel, and God is the one who calls for and draws forth and puts in those responses of the hearts and the hearts of those in whom he is working.

This is one of the problems with repentance. I'm not a sinner. Well, the only reason you can get away with thinking you're not a sinner is because you don't understand anything accurately yet of the true and living

God. So some of those comparisons, if they help to drive home the enormity of our crime against God, then they may do some good.

Amen. And we have Harrison in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, who says, how do you respond to those who reject the notion that repentance is required for salvation, who will point to the thief on the cross whom

Christ forgave? I'd be slightly perplexed to think that somebody who says, this man has done no wrong, but we're being punished justly for the crimes we've committed, doesn't have some profound sense of his sin in his look to Christ and his request that Christ would remember him when he comes into his kingdom.

Especially when we know that he was initially mocking Christ. Sometimes people forget, and I think sometimes the movies leave out, the fact that both thieves were mocking him.

It wasn't just one bad thief on one side and one good thief on the other that asked him to remember him in his kingdom.

They were both mocking him, and then you see a 180 degree turn there. Sure, and I think we need to be careful.

We've talked about the language of sorrow and the language of repentance. There isn't a verbal formula here.

We're not looking to say, I'm sorry, you didn't use this specific word or this. No, but here's a man who says, look, whatever this man has or hasn't done, it's quite clear that he is innocent.

He's being punished for crimes that he has not committed, but we are being punished justly, and I think in that confession, you've got, again, something of the kernel of repentance, that I deserve what

I am receiving, that I am an unworthy sinner, and so remember me. I think you have there, again, the marriage of repentance and faith.

Yeah, I think that those that would use a text as an argument against the necessity of repentance are, once again, defining repentance incorrectly, and they might think that in order for that thief to be truly repentant, he would have had to have lived to have the opportunity to restore everything that he stole, volunteer at a soup kitchen, and do all these kinds of things, but that is not what repentance is.

Even though repentance leads to good works, the fact that the man was there nailed to a cross along with Christ prevented him from doing anything else than from what he uttered.

Yeah, and I think that's a very good point when we're asking about these evidences.

Christ, now, it is the Lord Christ speaking with all that wisdom and all that, it's the

God -man's discernment. He says, today you'll be with me in paradise. He doesn't say, well,

I'm going to hang on here a little while and see where things go with this. You're a repenting, believing man.

What more do you ask for? Yes, had that man survived, the evidences would have been there, we know, because Christ gives him that assurance that his desire for mercy has been received.

And Reverend Buzz Taylor has something to say. Yes, getting back to the other half of what was there, the central teaching of repentance, we have, you know, of course, we all know

Jesus began his public ministry after his baptism at the age of 30. We have only that I can think of two statements that he made before that.

You know, there was the thing when he was 12 years old about my father's business, and there was telling

John the Baptist that it's necessary to fulfill all righteousness to be baptized. But after he's baptized and he begins his earthly ministry, the very first sermon we ever have on record that Jesus preached is in Mark 1, 14 and 15, where he says, the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Time is fulfilled, the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Repent and believe in the gospel. And if you take every sermon

Jesus preached after that, and even look at the preaching of the apostles, if you boil it down to its most basic components, those are the two things that are there.

It's repentance and faith. Now when Jesus confronted individuals, he applied it specifically to their sins that they needed to repent of.

But to crowds, he would simply say, you know, it's going to cost you everything. You know, you give up all you possess if you're going to be my disciple.

And you can see it all boils down to repent and faith. That is the central teaching of Christ's sermons and the apostles.

We have time for one more question. And that's from B .B. in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania.

And B .B. says, must we not be clear that forgiveness, even genuine biblical forgiveness, does not require that the forgiver not hold the person responsible physically for harm that individuals may have caused and let them get off scot -free?

For instance, if someone is on death row for murdering your loved one, if they beg you for forgiveness, you are to indeed extend that forgiveness.

But that doesn't mean that you're going to call the warden and ask that the person be released from prison.

Sure. Forgiven sin may still have real consequences.

I think you see that, for example, in the life of David. He confesses his sin, begs for forgiveness from the

Lord, is assured that if sin is forgiven, that there are still immediate and long -term consequences in his family that show that his sin is, though put away judicially, as real and practical consequences.

On a much more basic level, if you have an argument with your wife and you repent of your harsh words, you ask her to forgive you, she says, yes,

I will. But you've still got some ground to make up there. You still have to, again, restore some of the relational bridges, if you like, that you've broken.

Now, I think what is important to remember is that the repentance of a Christian is repentance toward God as Father, and that God's dealings with us as his children may include chastisings.

Amen. They are not, if you like, judicial punishments.

God's judgment has already been made in Christ. His chastisings of his repenting children are the dealings of a loving and gracious Father who is training us.

So yes, certainly in that respect, too. Is it B .B.? She's absolutely right that even genuinely forgiven sins may have consequences.

The other side of that, of course, is that that doesn't excuse us in holding grudges against those who are genuinely repenting, that we must be those who forgive 70 times 7.

It's interesting how everybody assumes B .B. is a woman, and yet we forget B .B. Warfield. Is it?

Is it? I thought it was B .E .E. B .E .E. Okay, if B .B.

is a Benjamin Preckinridge or anything like that, I do apologize. Well, by the way, everybody who wrote in a question today is getting a free copy of What Is Repentance?

thanks to our generous friends at Reformation Heritage Books, and also thanks to our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com.

We'll be shipping those out to you. Make sure that we have your full mailing addresses if you did not yet send them, and I want you to wrap up in about a minute and a half a summary of what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today,

Pastor Jeremy. What I would want etched on the hearts and minds of listeners is something of the mercy of God in Christ, so that when they look in their

Bibles or when they hear the preaching of God's Word, they see a God who, in Christ, shows himself willing and able to put away sin entirely and receive the sinner who turns back to him, to think, you know, whatever

I have committed, whatever sins I've committed, however long I've gone, however far

I've gone, however far from mercy I may have turned away up to this point, whether I'm outside of the kingdom and I'm a gross sinner of some kind, if I'm a

Christian, I've been struggling with some remaining sin, that we must recognize in God this heart of forgiveness, this gospel compassion, this grace and this mercy that flow freely to sinners in Christ, that we must, with hatred of our sin, turn our backs upon it, weeping over it if need be, crying out that we would be free from it, drawing near to God in Christ, calling upon him for mercy, and then setting out independence upon the

Holy Spirit to live a life that is pleasing to him as a believer, as a repenter, and to walk that path all the rest of our lives.

We must see this in the light of God's gracious character and respond appropriately.

Well, thank you so much, Pastor Jeremy Walker, and for anybody who wants to look up the information for Maiden Bower Baptist Church in Crowley, West Sussex, England, and believe me, there are people out there in England who do listen to this program.

In fact, my former pastor here at Grace Baptist Church in Carlisle, who just not long ago accepted a call to Northern England, he had a visitor come to the congregation where he pastors,

David Campbell, where he now pastors, from a listener in England who heard about the church where he now pastors on my program.

So if you want to go to their website, it's mabach .org.

It's almost like Massachusetts Bach. mabach .org,

and if you want to find out more about the booklet we've been discussing, go to heritagebooks .org,

heritagebooks .org, and that's Repentance, or should I say, What Is Repentance? by Jeremy Walker, and you can also get that through cvbbs .com,

cv for Crumlin Valley, bbs for biblebookservice .com. Thank you, Rev. Buzz Taylor, for being my co -host.

I want to thank everybody who wrote in questions, and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater