Hyper-Preterism | What About It! w/ Trey Fisher!

And today we're gonna be talking about a unicorn My buddy Jeremiah Nordea has found himself a unicorn and been dealing with that.

So we decided to talk about it What's what's your unicorns name, Michael? Michael Sullivan and the reason why

I want I'm sure you'll be hearing from him Oh, yeah, and I as I want people to be aware of that name and I want people to be aware of hyper

Well, hello and welcome to the apologetic dog where it's our hearts desired here to guard the gospel deposit

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And that is a local church in Jonesboro, Arkansas Northeast Arkansas, so please check out our church website at twelve five church

Dot -com and so today we are going to be talking about full preterism

You've maybe heard it by many different names hyper preterism Covenant eschatology is another name that it's kind of cloaked

Under and so I have my good friend Trey Fisher with me today And we are going to get into the weeds of this doctrine

Trey. What's going on, man? No, man, not much. Just another day with the apologetic dog

I Mean, this isn't this is a new one, you know, I'm excited about it

Yeah, now you called it a unicorn. Why did you say that? Yeah, you know, there are full preterist out there

I've just never found one, you know I mean because it's the most ridiculous thing anyone has ever heard and It's it doesn't sound ridiculous for those who don't know scripture because when you know

It's just like any heresy if you don't know scripture people can twist it and turn it and make it say whatever they want

And so it sounds very like oh my goodness. There it is right there And we can go deeper into why that is.

I think I would blame a lot of that to be dispensationalism You know, and then you start getting in here and twisting scriptures for people who don't really understand

The Bible what's going on? But anyway, why is it a unicorn because I've never found one.

I've heard about it I've read about it, but to see that there's really people out there pushing this and the sad thing is people believing it

You know, that's the real sad part. Yeah, that's why I call a unicorn Well, I have another question.

I think that's gonna really help our audience now We're using the phrases full preterism even hyper preterism now there's a view that you hold very closely to and I'm learning more and more about and I really like because it's what the

Orthodox but it's Historical Orthodox preterism can you explain to us the differences between a partial preterist a historical view of what has happened in the past and Where it becomes heresy with the hyper preterist.

Yeah So a historical Orthodox preterist or I think some people even call it just partial preterist, right?

Is the view and it will really make sense for a lot of people who don't understand when

Jesus Comes into Jerusalem, he he says the temple is gonna be destroyed, you know,

Matthew 24 He says that he's gonna be you know The stars are gonna fall from heaven the moon and the Sun's not gonna shed its light

You're gonna see the like a sign of the Son of Man coming. We can show you this here in a minute but a lot of people are really looking for stars to fall from heaven and Jesus coming surfing on a cloud, but that's not what he's talking about.

He's talking about judgment language on The temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD and he's talking about the destruction of just basically all of Judaism, you know

So is it fair to say preterism? They're talking about things that have been fulfilled in the past and it's being contrasted with futurism things that are

Still yet to take place in the future. Is that kind of a good framework to understand the terms working simple simple explanation?

I tend to give long answers. Hey, I'm a simple man I'm a simple man. You've heard that before I tend to give long answers yeah, and a partial or Orthodox historical preterist would say like the book of Revelation is

Primarily about the destruction of Jerusalem the destruction of the temple in 70 AD obviously, not everything has been fulfilled in The book of Revelation like all the people coming to Christ has not happened yet, obviously

So not everything has happened but the vast majority of what it's talking about there is

The destruction of the temple and the the outflowing of the church the growth of the church worldwide, you know

That would be Revelation 22 What about? Sorry, I have to say this the straight face is hard Well try

I think the new heavens and new earth is just all around us. That's what Revelation is saying and You know, the kingdom of God is everlasting we read all throughout the scriptures

So that means we're living in the new heavens in the new earth and it's everlasting if everything is going to continue into infinity yeah, that's what the you just put your

Unicorn hat on didn't you I did that didn't hit right? That's the full predators and that's what

I like to do with Well, I don't like to do I've never done it. I Never talked to one of these unicorns, but you have but if I were to talk to one, you know, and He's talking to you other, you know

Christians believers or whatever the case may be and he's trying to explain this to them You know, he's gonna be going in Daniel and Revelation and Isaiah and just pick pick pick pick, you know like every person here she does you

I'm saying they always pick these little scriptures here and there and Try to proof text their point through it I just want to take them to their logical in conclusion real quick and expose them to be just absolute

Absurd Ridiculous. I mean because they're saying that we're in heaven right now They're saying first of all, they're saying that Jesus has already came back the second advent.

Jesus already came back that there's no Physical resurrection. Well, there's some pretty heavy scriptures in the text about that And people who say that the resurrection has already happened, you know, there's there's some pretty strong Yeah, that's this those are one of those verses.

They probably don't show their people, you know Because they realize that they're probably not gonna be reading it anyway

So I just like to take them to their logical in conclusion and and say look just tell everybody what you're really saying

You're really saying that we're in heaven right now And when I look out my window I'm like man if this is heaven.

I mean God did a banged -up job on this one I'm because this looks like hell to me. I mean, this is bad, right? It's bad out there and I don't think

Jesus has done what he said. He's gonna do in first Corinthians 15, right? Right because that's ultimately what we're gonna take the conversation to this first Corinthians 15 something else that I've tried to explain is the already not yet mentality and Shrey tell me what you think about this the way

I go about doing that is I appeal to the New Covenant The New Covenant is bigger.

It's better and it's so much More than the Old Covenant right because the

Old Covenant contains types and shadows So when I'm talking to full preterist, I want to affirm

Yeah, there was an end to the Old Covenant age, right? These things now are obsolete right the book of the writer of Hebrews tells us and I'm like But when you see it in the light of Christ in terms of the

New Covenant There are some things that we are still awaiting for and I even think we see glimpses of that in the gospel

We see that Jesus is fulfilling things of Isaiah 53, right? He he's bright he's healing wounds and it's in the context of physical healings but he's like I can do even the greater the spiritual aspect of healing you spiritually and Forgiving sin and I think he's giving us a picture of what the true

New heavens and new earth will look like in its totality something that is still future So what do you think about that grounding it in the

New Covenant? Now grounding what in the New Covenant The new heavens and the new earth saying that there is still something that is not yet That's still future because we acknowledge that Jesus is

King. He's ruling and reigning. He's sovereign He's working through his church, but we still are awaiting that blessing, right?

Right. Well what we're doing is when we I think when we understand the scripture and this is like what we'd like to talk about The Jewish people today.

They they they don't like the American Jesus They're not gonna believe in the American Jesus because the American Jesus is a loser and a beggar

Right, and they're looking for a king to rule the world They're looking for Messiah to come and rule and so we're we

I would say that we would say he's here and he's doing it He's conquering right now through his church, right?

And so yes that it's a now and not yet type deal where like we don't die

Like Jesus says whoever believes in me Will never die, but we know we physically die, but we really don't we don't die.

We live forever You know, we might die in this flesh, but there's a time coming They're not yet is there's a time coming when they're really no not even a physical death.

There would be no death whatsoever But even right now There'll be no tears, right?

Hmm. Well We don't weep and mourn like the rest of the world does because we have hope is what it says in Thessalonians, right?

So right now we don't the tears that we cry are not the tears that the world cries because we have hope in Christ Jesus, but there will be a time mmm, and the second advent the

Culmination of all this where there will literally be no tears like go ahead

Well, so now you said something that I love because you're talking about, you know

The passage in Revelation where there's gonna be no more mourning no more tears Isaiah 65 even gets into that as well

But when Jesus says that we will not die we are talking about a twofold distinction because of who man is we are both body and Soul and so Trey talked with these unicorns and and like you were saying we're talking about something

That's like that's an anomaly something. You don't just see but once in a blue moon and it's starting to creep in my

Local area and so my conversations with them they will say well when

God told Adam the day that you eat of the tree of Knowledge that you will surely die.

They say that Adam did not die physically. He died spiritually and Yeah, I think maybe if you got a chance to listen to my interview with dr.

Frost We got into the fact that Adam should have died Physically, but God provided a substitute right?

He provided animal Covering which means that God would have had to physically actually kill them in Adam and Eve's stead and so yes,

Adam and Eve did die Spiritually, there's now a covenantal rift between God and man

There's entity but God restores that by his grace. And so when when they appeal to Because they're they're gonna quote that same verse in John 11 that or wherever it is that we're no longer going to die

They're gonna say oh, it's spiritual Right, right John 11 20. Yeah, do you care to read that?

Yeah, Jesus said to her I am the resurrection the life whoever believes in me though He die yet shall he live and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die.

Do you believe this? Yes, thank you, you know,

I was thinking I was like I think it was John 11 with the whole Lazarus and and his sisters But what

I love about this text they are going to say all what Jesus is talking about spiritual life

And I want to say yes and no Because John 17 3 this is eternal life that you know

The one true God and Jesus Christ to me sent so we experience eternal life now by knowing the true

God knowing the Father Son and Spirit Jesus is Savior. And so yeah, we will die physically, but we will be resurrected unto a brand new life one that God Recreates right restores and that is the new heavens in the new earth, right?

Well, whoever believes in me is passed from death to life, right? Absolutely We're in it now like are we we've already, you know have stepped into that eternal state now our bodies will die

You know unless Christ comes back first right But yeah, so so full prayer so here let me just tell you like what we do here as far as names, okay

I like talking about Baptists because we're Baptist, right? And so we call ourselves reformed

Baptist But why are we reformed Baptist? Well, it's because years ago. We were just Baptist.

We're just Baptist, you know And we did an episode me and Nathan did an episode of is the is the Southern Baptist Church really reformed, right?

Because we show the history of the Southern Baptist Church that we come from the 1689

London Baptist Confession of Faith Which that's what we believe That their statement of faith like yes, that's that's what we believe the abstract of principles

We believe that and then you have the the latest 2000 Faith message faith and message of 2000 right which states what the

Baptist believe and come to find out I'm Baptist, but you talk to most Baptists and you tell them that you believe

God's sovereign over everything They agree with that, but but he's not in control of salvation. He's not in control of the weather

That just happens. You know, I'm saying like we believe in The doctrines of election right the doctrines of grace that God predestined people

Because that's what Baptists have always believed right and so people came in years ago and said hey, we're Baptist And they come in and all of a sudden they start teaching, you know, this big free will or minionism and we're like, whoa

No, that's that's not Baptist and they're like, oh, yeah, so they you know this big riff starts

So we just back away and we say you know what take the name you can have it We'll call ourselves Reformed Baptists to distinguish ourselves same thing with preterism

It's just it's just by definition this some things happen in the past right right well later on Unicorns showed up and they said hey, look, we're preterists and we're like welcome to the family.

So are we and They started saying how Jesus has already came back. The second coming has already happened.

It all happened in 70 AD The resurrection there's no physical resurrection.

It's just all spiritual stuff and we're like whoa hold the phone That's not

Preterism, that's not what we're teaching here. Oh, yeah, it is, you know, and so we say, all right, we're out

You go ahead you have that Surely nobody's gonna believe that junk, you know But we'll call ourselves

Orthodox historical preterist and we'll just call you hyper preterist because it's crazy, right?

And so it's just a name distinction that we don't fight over never have and we're not we're just gonna go back to the scriptures

And and look at this So I'd like to chime in because there's another name that I think gets disparaged and it's actually biblical the word

Dispensation Paul uses two times in the book of Ephesians. And so I think we're

Dispensationalism goes crazy is when you have a sub Sovereign God who said okay.

I'm gonna make mankind Oh, he failed now I have to make plan B and I have to have all these different plans of salvation

But I think being reformed having a high view of God's sovereignty having a correct view of man We understand

God's dispensation is his unfolding plan of redemption, right? I mean, it's a lot of times people just say, you know, all types of dispensationalism is wrong and we're and it's almost for good reason because of The the undertones that we see of dispensationalism today

So that's one of those words that I try to encourage people we want to be biblical where the

Bible actually speaks to and Recognize the things that have that have been turned into in this 21st century or the 20th century or something like that All right.

I want to ask you something real quick. I want to ask you something. So how did you get?

Involved in this like how did you find like how did this? How did you find some unicorn out there who really like I mean, he doesn't just like believe

I mean, he's writing books on this stuff, right? I mean like he's writing stuff He has people following him now.

There's there's other churches even near you right that that are They're saying this what in the world?

How do you get I want to tell you where this come from? I'll tell you how this unfolded. It's kind of it's kind of crazy

I have I had a good friend that was a pastor just a couple towns away from me

And he said he was gonna embark on studying eschatology and I'm basically like a good luck to you

And about eight months into it. He called me and said hey Jeremiah. I think I'm a heretic

I need you to talk me off this ledge. I'm like hold the phone. What's going on? He's like dude,

I've went from pre millennial dispensationalism to all millennialism for like two weeks

I'll mill and then went to post millennialism for a long time and then he's at the edge of full preterism hyper preterism and he's like Jeremiah been studying church history looking all the creeds and confessions and they all look forward to a future bodily return of Christ and he's like,

I don't think I can see it that way He's like I need you to help. So I really tried to step in and be kind and gentle and patient with him

And he even told me that you're gonna think this is interesting tray He even said that he's gonna step out of ministry

Potentially because he didn't want to ruin people's lives and I'm part of me was like well praise God he realizes how dangerous this stuff is and So then he started to shift a 180 started to happen and he started telling me you can't defeat it and I'm like, well

Okay, let me give you some alternatives going away the place Yeah You can't do

Well, and what I noticed was when I started offering alternatives Explanations to the time text and some you know,

Daniel nine all of it discourse and things like that I noticed he wanted to believe it like he just was would say oh, that's not convincing to me or that's not being consistent

I'm like, but it is I mean I see it that way but Far be it from me to actually go against what

Christ has been building for 2 ,000 years because we are talking about a gospel issue When you start talking about the person and work of Jesus Christ and the blessed hope, right?

They see trade the the resurrection and the second coming is one event and so that's something that dr

Sam Frost and I got into last time we looked at that passage and in 2nd Timothy chapter 2 where hominids and fleas were teaching that The resurrection already happened and it was starting to cause people to swerve from the faith this

Heresy was starting to spread like gangrene. And so I want to encourage our audience Those of us that are gonna watch it this week tray

I'm actually going to be doing a follow -up response with dr. Sam Frost. So Any audience out there can be looking forward to that?

So anyway going back to your question how this really started to peak so I had this conversation with the gentleman

We were good friends at the time We have mutual friends that were all kind of following his lead and I'm having to make phone calls

Trey talk about these things constantly and Then you know I work as a hospice chaplain and I do bereavement and I'm driving back to Jonesboro and I have an hour drive and I receive a random phone call that I answer and The guy the gentleman introduced himself as Michael Sullivan And I didn't know

I looked him up on Facebook and if you look him up, he's his opening description of who he is is like sovereign graced

Full preterist the second coming already happened soon 70 ad

I'm not making this up either and so he called me and I Introduced myself trade and he spoke for about 10 or 15 straight minutes and I did not get one word in I'm just like I'm just going to absorb right now

I'm just gonna let him talk and say and then in his opening spiel. He's already thrown in how yeah

So much scholarship doesn't understand the these timing indicators and these texts of how all of it discourse is connected with Daniel 9 and I'm just thinking okay.

I Understand he's a full preterist and this is how this conversation is gonna go down He already had connections with some of those pastors was buttering you up to like, oh, you're awesome

That's what it felt like and I want to be super charitable But he was talking me up big -time and I felt every step of it

Like oh, no, and sure enough he and I did recommend him. I was like, yeah, I've debated Roman Catholics Church of Christ Definitely go listen to those debates.

Like I was trying to be kind to this individual Michael Sullivan and but yeah, I was getting that pat on the back and I was just thinking

I don't know you and You know sure enough. I got on Facebook. He shared like five or six of my debates and sermons and I'm right

So, how's he how's he treating you now that you did this video? Against what he believes he's still well charitable and Well This is hard for me because I really don't know

I'm guessing not No, I would I would say not the

I would say everything is shifted Especially after he realized that I started getting closer to Sam Frost.

They co -wrote a book together The sentence they published it that year and that same year

Sam Frost left full pretorism, so And I was a little bit aware of that because I reached out to dr.

Frost told him my situation I had questions about things and he was helping me out and he was just like hey this

Michael Sullivan guy He will blast you full force with just overloading you with questions demanding that you answer everything and trade

That's exactly The people we talked to a lot, you know, I do the same thing I the

Church of Christ which ironically full preterism finds its origins in Because and the reason why

I've totally it makes sense. Why please tell me because I don't know why I do know that the full Preterist like really comes out of the

Church of Christ Like I've never met a Church of Christ or who believes this absolute hot garbage but I do know historically, you know reading it and Studying it that the main proponent came from the

Church of Christ and that is because Church of Christ Right, we don't need church history

It's just my Bible me under a tree no creed, but Christ mentality that so low scriptura, right?

Don't give me your commentary. We speak where the Bible speaks and we're silent where the Bible is silent. Yeah, right

That's it. That's a standard you yourself will not live up to but they denied any types of confessions, right?

They don't look at the fact that Christ has been building his church for 2 ,000 years So we expect that Christ abandoned his bride for a couple thousand years, right?

And obviously they won't say that but we're saying practically they want nothing to do with church history

It's not like in their mind The Holy Spirit has gifted men and even women with wonderful insight to the scriptures to be able to teach

Saints today now we always measure what they say with God's Word. But as you know Church Christ They don't believe the indwelling spirit is actually within us

They reinterpret the the Holy Spirit to be the Word of God as you read it, right, you know

But not all of them, but not all of them, right not all of them just like with full preterist They're not all gonna say the same thing.

So when people watch our video, that's not what we believe in you're misrepresenting us Well, that's not totally true

We are representing some people the unicorns as you call them that I've actually interacted with and we are touching on the thing that overlaps

With all of them awful preterists believe that the second coming of Jesus already happened and it was spiritual right, so That's just so crazy to me for y 'all who don't know he try is pressing a button that cackles when he laughs

I have nothing to do with that But I just I mean really That's where it just gets so stupid like you're telling me that we're in heaven right now.

Mm -hmm We're in heaven. The Jesus has already came back And you're also saying that there's no physical resurrection.

Mm -hmm. I Want to touch on one last thing? Why full preterism comes out of Church Christ?

Maybe it's apparent at this point the Church Christ deny the creeds They do they do not want to engage with church history and guess who else doesn't want to do that full preterist

Because they realize what they're saying goes against all the creeds Confessions even good councils that we would agree with majority if not all

And the part the problem is is this is a gospel issue And so that's why here at the apologetic dog.

We guard the gospel deposit. That's been entrusted to us Try another phrase that I love that comes out of church history is simpra refer

Amanda The church is always reforming not that we're coming up with new and innovative teachings.

That's brand new, right? Those brands of dispensationalism have the same problem, but we're looking back to that good deposit

We're looking back to the the once delivered faith to the Saints Right. So that is why full preterism emerges out of the

Church Christ that deny the creeds Confessions do not care anything about church history and I'll tell you another thing.

It's gonna end up leading these people to universalism I'm at I didn't meet him he didn't call himself a

Full preterist or a unicorn. I think you just got to be a clown to come out and say that you know, but He did say he's a universalist which is almost as clowny as that But you know and it goes back to not understanding the book of Revelation I really do believe it because I think that if you because this is where he went he went to Revelation 21 and 22

He was trying to explain to me that that in heaven, you know, everybody goes to heaven and there's still gonna be murderers and adulterers and sexually immoral people in heaven and we've got to still share with them in heaven because everybody goes to heaven and this is where this stuff leads and Because it's a bad understanding of Revelation 21 and 22 because when they have this dispensational view that this is talking about heaven and then all sudden somebody creeps in and And twist things a little bit you're like, oh my goodness, right instead of explaining how this is about the church

Exploding and growing and growing and growing we can go back to his Ezekiel with with the unicorn

We can go back to Isaiah and show them that this is about the church and the growth of the church not

Really like ultimate heaven, right? Hmm, but this is where it leads you it will even take this guy eventually

I would guess To universalism. Well me I guess he is already universalist. We're in heaven and everybody's here, right?

So this is where we're talking about. There's gonna be disagreements with full Pritterist Michael Sullivan would not claim to be a universalist.

He would claim to be reformed of all things Yeah, because he wants to get in. I just got to stop you right here.

Yeah. Yeah, he wants to get in You know to the church. I mean, you don't want to heresies aren't gonna go back into another heretical church and teach a heresy

They're good. Like they're already in heresy ville but they're gonna try to come in to Orthodoxy and and they'll take people out, right?

Kind of like what Jesus says. I mean these people are so arrogant is They will try to deceive even the elect if possible, which is not possible.

But what I'm saying is I guess he's already there to You know universalism because he believes that we're all everybody in this world right now is in heaven that this is heaven, correct?

Yeah, I agree with you he's he's really close I mean he if he were being consistent as we're gonna look at then he ought to be a universalist.

So that's that's my caution to Self -proclaiming full Pritterist if you're not a universalist

You should be if you were being consistent with the timing indicators, right and their their whole thing is about being consistent, right?

That's that's their mantra But everybody wants to everybody says that because I mean who are you gonna listen to if I came up to you and I was like Listen, I want to teach you about the

Bible, but let me be honest I'm gonna be honest with you. I'm very inconsistent

I Really? I'm just all over the place. You know, I'm just so inconsistent

Of course, you're gonna have to say that you know, this is consistent. I'm consistent Everybody says that right, right, but when you take them to the end of the road and say

And guess what? We're in heaven right now Surely the people listening to you and your most consistent view

Laughs at you and walks away What does it sound like? It's just It's what's the buttons?

What's the button? Did you just say that? Did you just say we're in heaven right now that Jesus already came back

Wow, like you you just went to nut bill, you know, but anyway, go ahead

I interrupted you. I just know no, I just can't handle some of this stuff. Hi I'm glad you have those buttons too because we have to release at some point, right?

As we make our way to first Corinthians 15, I was hoping I could do a shameless plug for our sponsor

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My wife loves it Trey, but we got to work on your beard. We got to grow it out a little bit

Yeah, Frankie makes fun of my beard compared to your beard your beard So Frankie is three

Frankie is four -year -old the coolest human being on the planet And when I came down to visit

Trey and preach at his church Frankie She pats my beard and says my daddy has a baby beard.

I'm like, I'm gonna mention that in the sermon tomorrow But so you want to look at first Corinthians 15, right?

Yes. All right. Let's see what we got here. All right Yeah, why don't you kick us off because there's actually a number of points leading up to that famous verse for as in Adam All die, but I know you want to maybe cover some ground leading up to that.

Well, I Just love this part right here. I just do want to read this for anybody in our

Our Church of Christ friends who are might be listening to this I just want to read verses one and two now.

I want to remind you brothers of the gospel I want to remind you meaning I've already told you the gospel now.

I'm just gonna remind you I'm gonna hit the high points here. I preached to you what you received what you received Mmm, you received which is what you stand by which you were being saved if you hold fast to the words

I preached to you unless You believed in vain not unless you got baptized in vain.

Mm -hmm unless you believe in vain, right? So he goes and he hits the high points the pillars of the gospel the death man resurrection right here and then

Where we're wanting to get do? Is this right here verse 12, right? Yes, so I love because I was reading this last night preparing for this morning with you

I love how you keyed on the word received right and believed in vain So that's assuming that yeah

You positively did believe right because that's how you receive Christ by believing and that's what verse 11

He reminds us of in this passage Whether then it was I or they so we preach and so you believed

Pistubo now, this is a repentant faith, right? This is back in John chapter 1 that says for for those who did receive

Jesus Believed in him are now our sons of God, right? And so that's how you receive

Jesus and like you rightly pointed out not that you are baptized and this is how you now

Ontologically are joined with Christ because that's what the Church of Christ say is you got to be in Christ How do you get in Christ in Christ?

Well, it's by faith, right? We understand that those passages that are talking about being baptized are being immersed

United with Christ and it's always in the context of faith, right? And another point here is not that these people lost their salvation because you can't lose your salvation

It's just simply they believed in vain from them from the beginning. Mmm, like a lot of them use the NIV So let's just look at the

NIV real quick. It says this right here Just get this bigger for you

Um now brothers sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you which you received in which you've taken your stand by this gospel

You're saved if you hold firmly to the words I preached to you. Otherwise You believed in vain not that you lost your salvation.

It's just that you simply believed in vain. Yep, right? That's the whole problem I'm getting ready to preach this

Sunday on one of the scariest verses in all the Bible where Jesus says I never knew you depart from me you workers of lawlessness, but he says

I Never knew you not that I knew you for a little time And then now you decided to go back to you know, working and sin and denying me

No, I never knew and Jesus isn't saying that he doesn't know something Intellectually, but he didn't know them relationally ever like the point you're making so back to our

Unicorns, it's it's so easy for us to derail and start it is Just want to go everywhere so here we go now keep in mind

Let's just hit real quick in case anybody Because I'm telling you this is the most whacked -out stuff you've ever heard and there's a lot of people who probably never heard of partial preterist orthodox historical preterist much less hyper preterist.

I mean, I think most people when they hear hyper preterism Not even knowing the things when they hear the man say

Jesus has already came back There is no bodily resurrection. It all happened in 70

AD all of it and And welcome to heaven you're in heaven now, you know,

I think I really do believe most people are like And so but this is what they're saying right they're saying that there is no physical resurrection

Correct. Mmm, right. Okay that Jesus came back in his second advent in 70

AD Like he really came back now, I would say He came back and the way he said he was going to come back in his wrath

Against the temple and Judaism Jerusalem, and I think we can look at that and all through scriptures and see that to be true

I think we can definitely look in history Just history itself and say yeah that happened, you know,

Rome came into Jerusalem and just ransacked that place It was the worst thing you've ever seen in the history of the world

Kind of like what Jesus says there will be no tribulation like this ever nor ever will be okay in Matthew 24

Whole nother discussion we can talk about it sometime But yeah, I would say that Jesus came back in his wrath

Against Jerusalem in the temple in 70 AD, but they're going too far saying no he came back like really came back the second advent

The resurrection all that stuff, although it wasn't physical. It's just spiritual and There's no real physical resurrection,

I mean they'll say that right. Am I wrong? Nope. Well, you nailed it like they will say that so this is where now, of course just like Just like some people have ways around every thing that goes against they what they believe

They just get around it or they say well, it doesn't mean that you know Like people who say that you have to be baptized to be saved

Romans 6 but you look at all through Scripture and you see this this through faith

It's the faith in Christ believing in Christ Romans 5 1 that therefore we've been justified by faith.

We have peace with God and they're like what doesn't mean that see faith means baptism like Like so everybody has a way to get around their text, but for you believers.

This is what you need to understand right here You want to you want to take it away you want me to go

You go for it, well, I mean you've been talking to the unicorn I really I just read about him, you know

What does he say when you say that now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead right here in verse 12?

if Christ is proclaimed from From raised from the dead. How can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead like now

He's gonna I'm assuming gonna say well Well, there is a resurrection of the dead. It's just spiritual.

It's not physical. Is that right? Yeah, what do you say and and This letter that Paul's writing a

Corinth has it is building up to 70 AD So they're they're rescuing device is all the

New Testament epistles are true Like here's another thing that I try to tip to scare people when you when

I like what you say I'm going to make them pay the intellectual price tag. I'm gonna tell them what they're signing up for one of those things are is that Satan is already thrown into the lake of fire at 70

AD the great white throne judgment happened Those passages in Revelation that we see already happened.

So there's no more spiritual warfare. That's what you're signing up for I don't know who that is.

It's just I don't know. Somebody thinks that's funny And so my point is when you read a verse like I think it's first Peter 5 8

Around in there where we see that Satan is like a roaring lion trying to devour whomever he can

They're gonna say well that was true during the days of Paul and Peter because 70

AD hasn't happened yet So yeah, they're gonna look at these things and say oh, well, you know, this was talking about a a

Gnostic type of resurrection That was hominidus and Philetus, right? And so here they're gonna be like, oh, yeah

Well, the resurrection hadn't happened yet at 70 AD so to say that it already happened or there's no resurrection

Oh, of course, that's wrong for the time period. Yeah, that's fine I'll say that's fine.

Let's just keep reading Bob. You know I'm saying. Yeah, I mean really okay I mean, that's the thing at the end of the day

Dude, you don't have to defend the Word of God, right? What was it Augustine says this you don't have to defend the Word of God You just it's like a line you let it loose.

It'll defend itself. Okay, so, okay Crazy man, let's just keep reading

Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead How can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead now, this is talking about a bodily resurrection

This is not talking about a physical resurrection if I ask this Man I'm about to get fired up.

I'm about to say things. I probably shouldn't say because it's gonna be out on web world now if Christ is

Proclaimed as raised from the dead now, I would say mr. Mr. Jack leg

Do you believe that Jesus Christ was raised bodily or just? Spiritually they would say he was raised bodily he ascended bodily, but he came back spiritually

Okay, good, I'm glad he would say that So let's keep reading If Christ is put claim is raised from dead.

How can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? Because you're saying that all these people in 70

AD were raised spiritually, correct? Yep. Okay, so There is no resurrection of the dead for those people, right?

So this is where me talking with dr. Frost They're gonna say well sure Christ was resurrected bodily, but he's unique, right?

Jesus is a unique case because the empty tomb, right? We don't see that just happening all over the place

So a Jesus is gonna be unique and so it's a spiritual resurrection for all the

Old Testament Saints Right, that's that's the argument. I believe what?

But that let that set in for a second So Jesus resurrected bodily, right?

But that's not necessarily how the resurrection for these old covenant

Saints are gonna be resurrected So I'm pretty sure that's their argument Mmm interesting, let's keep reading.

Here we go right here But if there is no resurrection of the dead then not even

Christ has been raised if there's no resurrection of the dead speaking of Everybody else but Christ now if Christ was proclaimed as raised from dead

How can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead, but if there is no resurrection of the dead then not even

Christ has been raised meaning Other people if other people are not raised from the dead then not even

Christ was right If there's if that doesn't happen, it doesn't happen period doesn't happen to anyone It doesn't even happen to Christ and if Christ has not been raised bodily

Then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain We are even found to be misrepresenting

God because we testified about God that he raised Christ whom he did not Raise if it's true that the dead are not raised for the dead are not raised

Not even Christ has been raised and if Christ has not been raised your faith is futile and you are still in your sins then those

Also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished if in Christ we hope in this life only we are of all most be pitied but in fact

Here it is Christ has been raised from the dead bodily form the first fruits

There it is right there, right that's the key I think I think first fruits of those who have fallen asleep

To me this is the thing that is going to expose the full predators of being inconsistent because you can't just make

Jesus a unique case Right. He is the first fruits. He is not the exception

He's the rule as dr. Sam Frost pointed out and I love it because as we continue getting more into this

We're gonna show how full preterists ought to be universalist, right? Hmm It will ultimately lead there

First by a man came death by man has come also the resurrection of the dead for as an

Adam all die So also Christ shall be made all alive But each in his own order

Like there you go, but each in his own order meaning other people are coming just like back from the dead just like he did

Mm -hmm But in their own order not all in 70 ad

Right. I mean it would just say the Christ is gonna be right Christ was raised first, but then But everybody else in 70 ad, but everybody else in a few years.

No, but each in his own order. I Mean, there's gonna be different times, right?

Yep, like oh My goodness Christ the first fruits Then at his coming those who belong to Christ Then at his coming

Those who belong to Christ then comes the end when he delivers the kingdom of God the

Father after destroying every rule and every authority And power for he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.

The last enemy to be destroyed is death time out If this dude is telling me that we're in heaven right now

It says that Jesus is gonna reign Until all of his enemies are a footstool are under his feet that last enemy to be destroys death

I'm looking out my window and I see a lot of enemies of Christ Hmm meaning that there is a lot of work to do church

There's a lot of evangelism to do a lot of mission work to do Because there are a lot of enemies out there and our

King is reigning and he is conquering the world He is doing what Adam didn't do

Adam failed at multiplying and subduing the earth, but the second Adam will

Succeed in that, you know, hmm. Yeah So a couple other things so just to kind of emphasize again, so we have the timing indicators here

This is why this is why they must if they want to be consistent full preterist must be

Universalist but each one in his own order Christ the firstfruits Then at his coming those who belong to him

So you have the coming and then verse 24 then comes the end. Mm -hmm, right?

So They're all about making the end of the age 70 AD right the fulfillment to Old Covenant Israel.

And so the problem is Like you're pointing out the contrast between the first Adam and the second

Adam Jesus Christ, right because for as in Adam all die. So also in Christ all shall be made alive.

That's your contrast, right? And so but each in his own order fight Christ the firstfruits then at his coming

Those who belong to him now I think there's a real problem here because if you're saying that okay, the end is 70

AD That's when Christ came. Well, then all that belonged to him. That's when he received him

Right, right. So really you have two options and one is way better than the other

But if you're here alive today and profess Christ you didn't make it Right.

You're your one option is Oh We We're trapped in this new heaven and new earth yet.

We are without salvation. No, actually the reality is you're in hell right now What they call heaven is really hell because you didn't make it

Right. Yep, right. So that's one option Because all that Christ received all who belong to him at this end at his second coming in their mind 70

AD and you didn't make the cut But who's gonna believe that hot garbage train? Mm -hmm

So what you need to do is say, okay What as an Adam all die, but so also in Christ all shall be made alive

Okay. Well now since you know, we're living the new heavens and new earth after 70 AD well,

Jesus Christ fulfilled everything right all that are in Christ now after he fulfilled all the

Old Testament every jot and tittle. Well now we are all safe We're all living in this utopia of the new heavens and new earth.

And so I think you're right This is one of those passages that leads to universalism for the full preterist, right?

Well, there's no more spiritual warfare. Satan's already thrown into the lake of fire And I'm sure this this next section first screen is 15.

What is the resurrection body looking like, you know? Mm -hmm They're probably loving this in verse verse 44

So it is with the resurrection of the dead what is sewn is perishable. But what is raised is imperishable

It is sewn in dishonor is raised in glory. It's sewn in weakness. It's raised in power It's sewn in a natural body, but it's raised in a spiritual body.

They're saying see it's just a spiritual resurrection There's no physical resurrection, but it doesn't say it's just raised spiritual, but it's raising a spiritual body

Mm -hmm because that's that's what man is. We are a body and soul, right?

And he goes on to tell you thus It's written right here Thus, it's written The first man

Adam became a living being the last Adam became a life -giving spirit Now did

Adam the second Adam Jesus was he not a living being just like Adam? No, he was but he was a life -giving spirit

But he was still in a physical body and but it is not the spiritual that is first But the natural and then the spiritual the first man was from the earth and man of dust

The second man is from heaven as was the man of dust. So also are those who are of the dust

Just as we were born in the image of the man of dust We shall also bear the image of the man of heaven and when

Jesus was raised from the dead He was raised in bodily form Right.

Yeah He's not the exception. He's the rule we are going to be he's the first fruit

We're gonna be raised we have been raised to walk in newness of life

But we're continuing to follow that example that he gave us right Jesus is truly

God truly men, right? So if he bodily resurrected, well, then we too are gonna have a bodily resurrection as well

And what really kind of fires me up a little bit is my conversations with these gentlemen

I just say what happens after we die and One response I've gotten is the

Bible doesn't tell us The Bible doesn't tell us

That's what they say and that's where I would love to appeal to passages like in Revelation 22 like you're saying

I think I think there are principles that we see our Past preterists and then there are principles that we still see or not yet in our future

But nothing in this earth will be accursed Right, we still feel the effects of sin and death every single day and it breaks my heart because that touches on our blessed

Hope right Jesus has returned to restore all thing and to truly conquer sin and death

Yes, he dealt with the penalty of sin at Calvary, but he is coming back to Extinguish the power of sin and its presence all together, right?

my thing is This is so bad It's just so bad you're being extremely nice The dead will be raised and perishable and we shall be changed the dead will be raised and then he says like no not him,

I guess he is saying that but it's just that the hyper predators say that it's spiritual resurrection not a physical body

Right for people. Yep. Yeah, and it's And we're in heaven.

We're in heaven right now Yep, no more spiritual warfare if he was right,

I'm out if he's right I'm out. I'm not No, because if this is heaven

Come on, man you know, I was I was talking to somebody that has a lot of medical problems loves the

Lord and It just broke their heart to be like these people say that this this is it for me

This is the new heavens a new earth. This is everything that Jesus accomplished and it's so bad

This is why usually, you know, there are certain people that you know Love a good fight, and I imagine that there's some pride and so they find this what dr

Foss called this rational nut that explains some things and I Think there are some spikes in people and some momentum and believing this but it dies out

Pretty soon because it's cray -cray, right who is actually going to believe this and like you said, that's my point

Yeah, yeah, we rightly want to point that out It is

I'm glad I'm glad we're pointing out like okay you want to believe this Let's just go ahead and jump to the very end.

What do you actually believe as a consequence to this? Yeah, bring me to the logical end conclusion.

Oh, we're in heaven You're crazy You know, it's just I don't have any more for you

I mean, can you twist and turn some scripture on me? Of course, everybody can you know Mormons do Mormons Mormons will take the

Bible and guess what they do the same thing This guy'll do we don't mean that that wouldn't translate correctly and You know what other people do well that that word right there.

Actually the definition of that word. We don't accept that definition So we change the definition to make it fit what we want.

This is what people do. I mean at the end of the day I think was JC Ryle probably somebody before him The battle is over the definition of words.

Mm -hmm every every heresy everything At the end of the day it comes down to the definition of words

Mm -hmm. You know what a words mean? I Want to I want to do a book plug Walter Martin and the kingdom of the cults.

That's one of his biggest recommendations as we war for Scaling the language barrier right defining terms warring for context.

That's what we're called to do That's what we're doing here on this show and you got to realize too.

I want people to realize everybody us included We'll say no Context.

Mm -hmm. We'll say definition of words We'll say you know What are the what is the context of this and everybody will say that that's speaking the

Christian language you have to but now You need to go and study for yourself as well and stop taking everybody's word for it

Don't take my word for it. Don't take Jeremiah's word for it study yourself get some books get some history books

Read, you know read study, you know find some good Orthodox historical teaching to understand this get back into the creeds and the confessions

This is why you know creeds matter This is why it really does matter that puts guardrails up for us to know that man

This is what the church has always taught. Okay, if I start getting out here Man, I'm probably in some danger zones.

Okay, I need to stay within here and it's not that creeds or scripture No, screeds are put together by great solid

Christian men that God has provided for the church throughout history And they said that this is what this is what we believe and this is why we believe it

Here's all the scriptures. This is what this always been taught in the church Stay within these hedges, you know

And it just protects us from from getting off into heresy land, you know, because if you are, you know

Just me and under a tree, right? What's the deal? What's what do you call it? my

Bible You do that business and There's no telling where you're gonna end up I mean you're gonna end up telling people because you get a piece over here from somebody you get a piece over here from somebody and then next thing, you know, you got your own little ideas and It's nowhere historical in the church and this faith was delivered once for all to the

Saints not to an individual Right. It was given to the church. God spoke to the church. Go ahead

There's a there's a passage in Acts chapter 8 that that really spoke to me in terms of just sanctification and growth

Where you had the Ethiopian eunuch opening up the scroll of Isaiah Right reading not understanding.

Is it talking about the prophet himself or someone else and then you got you know One of the early deacons of the church

Philip coming along by the Spirit providentially and he says hey Do you understand what you're reading and I love what the

Ethiopian eunuch says? He goes how can I not unless someone guides me and so beginning with that scripture

Philip began to preach to him the good news of Jesus and You know a lot of people that are probably puffed up or like yeah,

I'm a Philip, you know and things like that I'm like, I'm a Ethiopian eunuch. I need someone to guide me now by God's grace

I want to be equipped to be a Philip to help somebody along when when I need to but I need help

I need other men other other people the faith to come alongside me and teach me and us to walk in faith together

Right to encourage each other and love and good works and that's what Titus 2 is all about deep discipleship

I'm getting plugged into a church and I think another thing that full preterism leads to Trey is

Actually a denial of the church because you got to think those timing indicators You can find them in Ephesians Ephesians talking about the church and then it finds its fulfillment in Christ So a lot of full predators not only end up universalist, but they also don't go to church because they're saying that that was already

Jeremiah, let's just be consistent here. I mean, they're the they're the kings of consistency So let's just let's just play their game of standards, right?

What's the point of going to church? I'm in heaven, dude I'm in heaven. What do I need church for what

I need to read the Bible for I'm here Bob Made it. I made it. I made it to heaven along with Hitler and everybody else now where we go from here

Who knows right? I mean, what do they say there? That'll be another discussion. Sure, because I'm sure they have some answer they go to la la land or something

Yeah No, that's good But like you said we want to press them on Consistency and you're not just gonna go a little bit of the way and sometimes gonna bring up as we wind down As some of the guys that I've talked to is they will go to Revelation I think you rightly pointed out

Revelation is just really misunderstood They will say well, these are the ones that don't conclude universalists and that the church isn't fulfilled in 70 ad

They're gonna say things like oh, well We see that we see evangelism in the new heavens and new earth

And so I hear that and I'm just like look you got it all twisted. You got it all

Because I want to wholeheartedly agree. There was an ushering in of the kingdom in some capacity, right?

But we fall into this paradigm this principle of the already but not yet and they totally disparage that idea

Yeah, what's again? It's it's taking You just went way too far and and because you had some idea and so now you're trying to make scripture fit your idea

Instead of the scripture transforming your ideas. You're taking your idea and Because it's it's yes, it's it's about the destruction of the temple in 70 ad and the explosion of the church

I mean, it's it's getting rid of this this Dispensation if you want to call it this age this era of Judaism and temple worship

It's getting rid of that and it's ushering forth the kingdom of God where there's no more temple worship

There's no more Judaism. I mean you go to Israel today And if you want to go with us, we've only go with me in 2023 in June Let me know and we'll sign you up, but we're going again, but you go over there and guess what?

There's still no temple They're still at the Wailing Wall the Western Wall is just bowing before and nodding back and forth because it's gone

He destroyed it. It is over with that that age that era is over It's now the church age and the explosion of it and it's not then did

Jesus come in 70 ad Well, he came in his wrath just like in Isaiah 10. He used Assyria, right?

He's Syria or a Syria to With his wrath to get the people of Israel well in 70 ad he used the

Roman Empire to Rage his wrath to pay his wrath came through through Rome and the destruction of Jerusalem in the temple in 70 ad

Yeah, and so yeah So try let's end on a high note.

Let's end on a high note, man You got I want to tell our audience to be on the lookout in the near future

Trey and I will be at reform con and we are looking forward to some really good interviews

Be on the lookout for cultish. We're gonna be doing some collaboration with those gentlemen and the derbs

Jeff Durbin, and hopefully we can get a hold of Dr. James White and Joe boot.

I know you're a huge fan I think everybody should read boot But read slowly.

I mean, it's deep Yes, so hey Trey, I'm super pumped we're gonna be at reform con all all that week

Yeah, it's gonna be fun learn a lot get to hear daddy Doug's talk Love listen to daddy

Doug Doug Wilson Douglas Wilson. I think he's a I think he might be one of the smartest guys on the street

But it's gonna be fun. We're gonna try to get some guys on here and and talk it up get LTB and We'll see you there

Luke and Pastor Jeff are in Ireland right now.

Just taking it to him preaching the gospel helping out churches that they deal with over there So that's good Trey I hope they convert

Conor McGregor. Well, I told Luke not to come home unless he has Conor McGregor in a backpack Bag bringing home.

I want to see Conor McGregor Converted because I love him. I love Conor McGregor. And what I love about him is he's a heathen and he doesn't act like he's not

I mean if you're gonna be a heathen be a heathen, right don't play the Christian game and be a heathen Just be a heathen right either be a

Christian or be a heathen. He's a heathen and he's all about it So I respect that Anyway, thanks for watching everybody.

Thanks for watching whether you're watching it from my channel or you're watching it from the apologetic dog

We do appreciate it and hopefully we'll have some more stuff. I'm sure that uh, what's what's your unicorns name,

Michael? Michael Sullivan and the reason why I want I'm sure you'll be hearing from him Really?

Yeah, and I want people to be aware of that name and I want people to be aware of hyper full preterism

Mm -hmm. Yeah. Well if he hits me up, I'm just gonna send it to you because I can't handle my garbage that this is this is this is a whole nother level of just absurdity

But we do love him. We will be praying for him guarantee you that and all those who believe this this horrible heresy and pray that God opens their heart and eyes to see that it's such an error and Major consequences for that and so pray

God opens their heart and eyes that they will truly study and just stop Listening to people did but read study for themselves find some good

Teachers some good Phillips, you know and back to the Philip thing. I just want to add one little thing there

Do you realize that that Philip used Isaiah? To preach the gospel to him. That's Old Testament.

Just for those who say the Old Testament doesn't matter anymore and it doesn't apply to us It's it's it does it does.

All right. Thanks for listening everybody See y 'all later. God bless. See you. Peace.