Debate: Matt Slick vs. Shadid Lewis, Is Jesus the God man?

Debate Introduction and Moderator Credentials

All right, welcome to tonight's debate. Just to let you know, I'm actually nervous and I'm not debating. And I just pray I do a good job as a moderator because these guys are gonna make my job very easy because they're professionals.

In fact, not only are you in a treat, I'm in a treat because in my opinion, you have two of the best debaters representing their respective position. And with that said, let me introduce the Muslim debater, Shadid Lewis, who is a former Christian.

And it says that, bear with me because the way it's written, there's a little typo, so I gotta correct it as I go. Mr. Shadid Lewis is the Muslim Debate Initiative, USA regional director. Mr. Shadid invites the Muslim community to attend this public debate.

Gee, George, what an excellent intro that you gave me. My estimation, Shadid Lewis is one of the top five Muslim debaters representing Islam today. And he's slowly becoming the best Muslim debater. He's quite passionate, he's quite articulate, and he's highly intelligent, and he knows the issues.

In fact, for you Christians, you're gonna be challenged tonight. I do invite you to carefully listen to his arguments because he's going to be using the Bible to try to prove that the scriptures that we hold as the God-breathed revelation do not teach that Jesus is God, so pay attention.

He's done his homework, and I know that because I've seen him debate this topic on many occasions, so he's more than qualified. Now, to introduce the Christian debater, Matt Slick. He happens to run one of the most effective websites, in my estimation.

He is actually the president and founder of the Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry, CARM for short, CARM is the acronym. The website is www .carm .org. In my estimation, this is one of the best websites produced by a Christian that thoroughly equips Christians to know their faith and to articulate it.

Matt Slick is also a great debater, and he's a great apologist, one of our finest, so again, like I said, you're in for a treat. You got two individuals that are more than qualified to debate issues, and they're respectful, and you'll see that tonight.

Although they'll be debating the issues passionately, they won't be debating each other's credibility, they won't be attacking each other. They're going to be debating the issues, so again, we're going to be in for the treat.

The first debate is titled, Is Jesus the God-Man? George, you're gonna have to give me a better introduction next time, so again, you're gonna have to edit this out. It's actually one debate, but it's from two perspectives.

My apologies. Is Jesus the God-Man? The Christian view of Jesus. Matt Slick will be taking the affirmative position. He'll be given an opening statement of 18 minutes, and then Shadid Lewis will come up and provide an 18-minute response.

Then Matt Slick will be given an eight-minute rebuttal to respond to Shadid Lewis's objections to the topic, Is Jesus the God-Man? And then Shadid Lewis will be given eight minutes to respond then we're going to flip, flip roles.

The second part of the debate is called the Islamic view of Jesus. Shadid Lewis will then start that particular section with an 18-minute opening response, or presentation. Matt Slick will come up for an 18-minute response, and then an eight-minute rebuttal from Shadid Lewis, an eight-minute rebuttal from Matt Slick, and then we're gonna have four-minute conclusions from each side, and if we have a few minutes left over, we'll open up the Q &A, if the Lord wills.

Now, with that said, I invite Matt Slick to begin by giving his 18-minute opening statement on the topic, Is Jesus the God-Man? He'll be taking the affirmative, presenting the Christian side. Welcome, Matt Slick.

The Hypostatic Union and the Deity of Christ

Here it goes. Is Jesus the God-Man? The Christian and biblical answer is yes, he is. Now, when we use the phrase God-Man, we are saying that Jesus, as the one person of Christ, has two distinct natures.

We are saying that he is both divine and human. In Christian theology, we call this the hypostatic union. So from the Christian theological perspective, Jesus is said to be both divine and human. This teaching is so fundamental to the Christian faith that anyone who denies it cannot be a true Christian, and, according to Jesus, will die in his sins, John 8, 24.

Now, Muslims say that it is not possible for Jesus to be both divine and human, but they have no problem accepting the idea that the eternal and divine word of Allah became, so to speak, flesh in the written Quran.

According to them, it is divine, and yet also exists in material form. So the concept of the divine word of Allah entering our world is not foreign to them, and, of course, no consort is needed for such a manifestation to occur.

Again, the doctrine of the hypostatic union, that in the one person of Christ are two distinct natures, divine and human, is found in various scriptures. Let me take a look here. Colossians 2 .9 says, for in him, Jesus, in him dwells all the fullness of deity in bodily form.

The word deity means the quality of being divine. In this verse, we see that both divine and human natures of Jesus are proclaimed. Again, this is called the hypostatic union, that there are two distinct natures in the one person of Christ.

But Colossians 2 .9 is not the only place that this truth is taught. There are other verses that I want to show you, but before I do, I need to quote Mr. Lewis. I watched the debate he had with Dr. James White.

The topic was, is Jesus Christ, God Almighty, the most high? At 43 minutes and 28 seconds in, Shadid said, and I quote, we look at what others have said. So, for example, what others said about Jesus, those who seen him at the beginning, those who were the very first, not what things developed later on with the church, but what your Bible says, what I would take as to be the very first followers, what did they, when they saw Jesus perform miracles, when they heard him speak, what did they say?

Close quote. Shadid tells us that we need to see what was said about Jesus from those who were with him from the beginning, and I wholeheartedly agree. This means we must first turn to the Bible, not the Quran, when we seek to learn about the person of Christ.

Therefore, I will do just that and turn to the Bible, to the Apostle John, who walked and talked with Jesus for three and a half years as his disciples. And this is what Jesus, I mean, this is what John says.

In John one, verse one and verse 14, in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. And verse 14, and the word became flesh and dwelt among us, he lived among us, we beheld his glory, glory of the only begotten son.

Now, in these two verses, Colossians two nine, or excuse me, John one one and verse 14, we see that the word, which was God, was made flesh. We see the two natures of Christ taught again, the word and the flesh, the divine and the human.

This is what is taught by John the Apostle, who knew Jesus personally. Let me quote again, Shadi, regarding who we are to first turn to regarding what Jesus said and who he is. Quote, those who were the very first, not what things developed later on with the church, but what your Bible says, what I would take as to be the very first followers.

What did they, when they saw Jesus perform miracles, when they heard him speak, what did they say? Close quote. Good question, and I agree. They say that Jesus is both divine and human. So, I'll turn now to the Gospels of Matthew and John, which were written by two of Jesus' own disciples.

They walked with him and they knew him personally. And to help the Muslims who might be here, and who might be listening later on, let me refer to the Quran, which says in Surah 365, that the Gospel was revealed after Abraham, and in Surah 57, 27, that Jesus was given the Gospel.

In addition to, in Surah 634, no one can alter the words of Allah, and in Surah 18, 27, none can change his words. Now, I certainly hope that Mr. Lewis, and all Muslims who might be listening, don't think that Jesus presented a false Gospel, or that the disciples were somehow able to alter the words of Allah given to Jesus.

And that would be in contradiction to Surah 634 and 18, 27. Therefore, let's look at two of Jesus' disciples, two of the men who walked with him, who saw Jesus perform miracles, and were with him from the beginning, just as Shadid himself says we should do.

Matthew 1, 23, behold, the virgin will be with child, and we shall, excuse me, and shall bear a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which translated means God with us. Matthew 25, 31 through 33, but when the son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.

All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate them from one another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will put the sheep on his right, and the goats on his left.

And I've already read John 1, 1 in verse 14, about the word becoming flesh. In John 10, 27, 28, Jesus says, my sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. And I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish.

Jesus, excuse me, in John 20, 28, Thomas, the disciple of Jesus, said to Jesus, Hakuri asmu kaihate asmu. He said, the Lord of me and the God of me. In other words, my Lord and my God. And Jesus didn't say in any way any rebuke to refute that.

In John 21, 17, this is important. Jesus said to him the third time, Simon, son of John, do you love me? Peter was grieved because he had said to him a third time, do you love me? And he said to him, Lord, you know all things.

You know that I love you. Jesus then said, tend my sheep. In the preceding verses, we see that Jesus is Emmanuel, God with us. He is the judge of mankind, the divine word, which was made flesh. He is the one who gives eternal life.

Jesus is called by Thomas, God, which Jesus did not deny. And Peter said Jesus knows all things, which Jesus also did not deny. By using the methodology required by Mr. Lewis himself, I've gone to those who were the very first followers of Jesus, Matthew, John, Thomas, and Peter.

In fact, that is what the Quran tells us to do as well. In Surah 547, let the people of the Injil, the gospel, judge by what Allah has revealed therein. We're told to look in that gospel. The Injil is, of course, that gospel revealed to Jesus, which is what Surah 57, 27 says.

Then he went after them, our messengers, and we sent Jesus, son of Miriam, and gave him the gospel. I hope that the Muslims would trust Jesus as much as I do. I hope that they would trust him as much as Christians do.

To the Muslim, he is a prophet. To the Christian, he is a prophet and more. To the Muslim, he is a man. To the Christian, he is a man and more. It is like the Muslims saying the Quran is a book and more.

To the Christian, Jesus is revealed in the entirety of the Old Testament and revealed sufficiently in the New. That's why it says in Zechariah 12, 10, God is speaking, he says, I will pour out on the house of David, on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on me whom they have pierced, and they'll mourn for him as one mourns for an only son.

And in Isaiah 7, 14, therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign, and behold, a virgin will be with child and very son, and she shall call his name Immanuel. I've already told you from Matthew 1, 23, the translation of that word Immanuel means God with us.

Now, I'm gonna turn to some other scriptures, but before I do that, I need to take a look at something here with you. The book of Acts, we read the account of Jesus speaking to a man named Ananias about Paul the apostle.

Jesus had appeared to Paul when he was still called Saul, and it said, Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? That's Acts 9, 4. Paul was then sent by Jesus to a man named Ananias, and Ananias was afraid of Paul because Paul had been persecuting the Christians.

Jesus appeared to Ananias in a vision and said to him concerning Paul, quote, he is a chosen instrument of mine to bear my name before the Gentiles and the kings and sons of Israel, Acts 9, 15. So we can see that Jesus himself appointed Paul as his own apostle.

In fact, in 1 Corinthians 9, 1, Paul the apostle says as he defends his apostleship that he had seen the risen Lord Jesus. Now, earlier I quoted Colossians 2, 9, which says in him, Jesus, goes all the fullness of deity and bodily form.

But Paul also says in Titus 2, 13, that we Christians are looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and savior, Christ Jesus. Clearly, Paul the apostle taught that Jesus was divine, the same as the apostle Thomas did in John 20, 28, when Thomas said to Jesus, my Lord and my God, this is after Jesus' resurrection.

Just to clarify again, Thomas was one of Jesus' very first followers. He was a disciple. Now remember, Shadid said that we need to look at the very first followers of Jesus to see what they said. That is exactly what I'm doing.

Now, Mr. Lewis in his debates and discussions about the person of Jesus has appealed to the New Testament. So have I. But he quotes it in a very selective manner. He cites only those scriptures that speak of Christ's humanity and he ignores the rest.

He does not address the whole of the subject about the deity of Christ. But I've also been selective. And so far, I've cited verses in support of Christ's deity. This is because we're not debating the humanity of Christ.

We're not debating if he's a man or not. We both agree that he is. It's not necessary to establish that Jesus is a man. That's not the debate. In a debate of this sort, Mr. Lewis, to properly address the issue from the very Bible that he has quoted so many times before in his debates, he needs to address these verses that I've raised that deal with the deity of Christ.

Ignoring them doesn't make them go away. In fact, ignoring them is to concede the debate because they would then stand unaddressed and unrefuted. Therefore, he needs to address not only the verses I've already raised, such as Colossians 2 .9, John 1 .1 verse 14, and Titus 2 .13, but also Hebrews 1 .8, which says, but of the Son, Jesus, he, God the Father, says, your throne, O God, is forever and ever.

The righteous scepter is the scepter of his kingdom, a quote from Psalm 45 verse six. Clearly, the Son, Jesus, is being addressed as God by God the Father. Now, this gets into the doctrine of the Trinity, and that's not in debate right here, but the Trinity is monotheistic, and this is a background information that we may get into sometimes if we want to debate the Trinity.

Nevertheless, I stand in agreement with Shadid. Jesus is a man, but again, logically speaking, to say that Jesus is a man does not mean he cannot also be divine. This is an important point of logic, and we argue with logic in a debate, and Mr. Lewis would be committing a logical mistake, a fallacy, if he were to ignore the verses that teach Jesus is God in flesh and focus only on the verses that show us humanity.

Jesus being a man does not prevent him from also being divine. It would be like me saying that the Quran can't be the word of God because it's a book. If I were to focus only on his physical pages and ask how could God's word be held in a hand and put on a shelf, no Muslim would accept that it is a refutation of what they say is a divine content.

Furthermore, if I ignored everything that a Muslim raised to assert the divine revelation of the Quran and focused only on its physical attributes, I would, of course, be failing to address the whole issue and would not be arguing logically and completely, and would fail to make my point.

How much time we got left? Five minutes and a half. Five and a half? Real quicker. The same applies here when we discuss the person of Christ. Now, when Mr. Lewis attacks the deity of Christ, he routinely raises such points as Jesus cannot be God because he said the Father was greater than he, or that Jesus was approved of God, or that the glory was given to him, or when Jesus said in John 8, 40, you're seeking to kill me, amen.

So let me address the answer to this, and it's found in two verses, Philippians 2, seven through eight, and Galatians 4, four. Jesus emptied himself, taking the form of a bondservant and being made in the likeness of men, he humbled himself to the point of death, even death on a cross, that's Philippians 2.

And in Galatians 4, four, highly significant, he was made under the law. So we can see from these two verses that Jesus had humbled himself, he had emptied himself, and he was under the law. So therefore, being under the law, he was required to pray to God the Father.

He was required to be circumcised. He was required to partake of the Passover meal. He was required to honor his mother and his father. And because he emptied himself and was made under the law, then God the Father would be in a greater position than him, which explains why Jesus said the Father was greater than him in John 14, 28.

This verse is not about nature, it's about position. We also know from Hebrews 2, nine, that Jesus was made in a position, made lower than the angels. This is an issue of position under the law. He would therefore be approved by God the Father, Acts 2, 22, and glory would be given to him by God the Father, John 17, 1, and he would also be called a man, John 8, 40.

All of this is perfectly consistent with the Christian doctrine of the Trinity and the hypostatic union, which is the two natures of Christ, a divine and a human. For Mr. Lewis to sufficiently attempt to refute the idea that Christ has two natures, that he must then deal with these verses on the deity of Christ, Colossians 2, nine, Titus 2, 13, Hebrews 1, eight, et cetera.

Remember, Shaddein said that we are to look to the very first followers and see what they said. Reminder, Surah 547 says that all the people of the Angeal judge by what Allah has revealed therein. Now, before I give the last two minutes, and then finally a tribute to the glory of the Lord Jesus Christ, who exists as a divine word made flesh, who bore our sins in his body on the cross, who died upon that cross, who rose from the dead so that all who trust in him by faith will be forgiven of all of their sins.

Let me first turn to the Quran. Surah 57, three. He is the first and the last, the evident and the eminent, and he has full knowledge of all things. In this verse, Allah is said to be the first and the last.

When we turn to Revelation 1, 17 and 18, Jesus himself says, written by John the Apostle, Jesus' disciple who first knew him, it says this. Do not be afraid, I am the first and the last, the living one, and I was dead, and behold, I'm alive forevermore.

So Jesus is the first and the last, even as the Quran says Allah is the first and the last. Surah 57, three. John the Apostle told us, excuse me, John the Apostle told us in John 18, six, that when the soldiers came to arrest Jesus in the garden, right before his crucifixion, Jesus said to them, I am, and they fell to the ground.

Why? Because he is God in flesh, and the power of his proclamation was too much for them to handle. When Jesus returns, we all, too, will fall to the ground in his glorious presence. In Revelation 1, 8, Jesus said, I am the Alpha and the Omega, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.

Christians will fall to the ground and worship the Almighty in thanksgiving. All others will fall to the ground in fear of judgment. But be careful that you do not deny what Jesus said about himself and what his apostles said about him, that he is the Almighty, because if you do deny this, you, too, also will perish eternally.

Thank you.

You can actually applaud after their presentations and rebuttals and concluding remarks, but not during the time that the speakers are actually engaging the issues. Now, with that said, without further delay, Mr. Shadid Lewis for his 18-minute response.

Shadid Lewis on the Reliability of the Gospel Writers

Just speak louder. Speak up. Is that good? Good sound? Yes, okay, very good.

All right, greetings and peace. Salaam alaikum, we say. In the name of Allah, most gracious, most merciful. The subject that we're discussing or debating here is, is Jesus the God-man? Are we clear? Is Jesus the God-man?

Man and God at the same time. Is this what Jesus is? And, of course, my position is that he is not both God and man at the same time. Let's dive right in and make that case. We see, and yes, what Matt said about taking from those first followers, I agree with that, but if you watched that debate, I made my point that you have to take from those whose statement agree with the person himself.

And I gave the example of today. We have the Tea Party. They tell us that Obama is a Muslim, right? But what does Obama say? Obama doesn't agree with them. Obama says that he's not a Muslim. He says he's a Christian or whatever, right?

Now, you may disagree with his practical Christianity, but out of his own mouth, he says he's a Christian. In other words, you can't take from those who are around the person if what they say is in contradiction to the person.

So if Obama says he's not a Muslim, he's a Christian, but the Tea Party says that he's a Muslim, who do we take? Do we go with the Tea Party or do we listen to Obama's own words? We have to obviously go with Obama's own words and not what the Tea Party says, even though the Tea Party are contemporaries and they live right here at the same time as Obama.

So that's what I said about taking from those first followers of Jesus. So Matt said that he's taking from them and he mentions John. Well, the writer of John, of course, this is not about the New Testament, but your scholars tell you that the writers of your four Gospels are actually unknown.

The writer of John is not the disciple of Jesus. How do we know that? If you look at John chapter 21, verse 24, we see that the person who writes John says that he's being told this information by one of the disciples.

The writer of John is not John, the disciple of Jesus. If you read in John 21, 24, you will see that that's very clearly shown that the writer of John is not John, the follower of Jesus. Here's what it says.

It says, speaking, let's start at verse 23. Then when his sayings were brought among the brethren that the disciples should not die, yet Jesus said unto him, he shall not die, but if I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to you?

This is the disciple which testifies of these things and wrote these things, and we know that his testimony is true. So the person who's writing John is not actually John, the disciple. This is a person who's saying that he knows that the testimony of whoever's telling him this is true, not that this is being written by John, the disciple himself.

So this would not qualify of my standard, which is taking from somebody who's actually a follower. This is somebody else who's telling you that they're writing from second-hand information. As far as the other Gospels, Mark, Matthew, et cetera, again, your scholars tell you that the writers of these books are unknown.

So these would not qualify as taking from those who are actually with Jesus. So that's the standard that I gave if you watched that debate fully.

So what is Jesus?

Whose testimony is stronger? Taking from, as I said, those who are around the person but say things that are in contradiction to the man himself, those who are with the person, but they say things that are in agreement with the man himself.

So let's take a look at what the man himself says. Does Jesus say that he is the God-man? Or does he say that he's a man? Let's see what he says. We go to John chapter eight, verse 40. Here Jesus, it is said that Jesus said, excuse me, it is said that Jesus said, as it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God.

Is that clear? He's telling you what? Clear words. I'm a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. If he's the God-man, then is there another God that he's listening to? Think about that.

If he is the God-man, as this debate is discussing, then is there another God? Because he says it right there. I heard the truth from God. So if Jesus is the God-man, who is this other God that he heard the truth from?

Or is it that he clearly is not God? And a man, he's just a man. And in fact, the word that's used here in the Greek is anthropo. This word means, it's a borrowing from Greek, meaning a human, of human origin.

This is from Random House Dictionary. We see further from Online Etymology Dictionary, Douglas Harper, it says, it's a prefix, meaning pertaining to man, from the Greek anthropos, and man, a human being, sometimes it includes women.

But notice, it doesn't include God. In other words, the word that's used, that the writer of John used and put in the mouth of Jesus, has Jesus explaining himself to be a full human being. He doesn't say that he's a God-man.

He uses the word that means a full and complete human being. Further, we look at Vine's Exposition, excuse me, Expository Dictionary of the New Testament. It says, anthropo is used, generally a human being, male or female, without reference to sexuality.

In other words, this word, anthropo, it doesn't mean man, as in the male gender. It means human being. It means human being. Like when you say mankind, you don't mean just men. You mean men and women, children, right?

But this word doesn't mean man, as in the male gender. That's the Greek word, ano. This word means a human being. If you want to describe somebody as a human being, you would use this word, anthropo. We're all anthropo, we are all human beings.

We're not gods, we're not aliens, we're not animals, we're not insects. We are only human beings. This is the word that the writer of John has Jesus describing himself as, an anthropo, a complete, full human being, not a God-man, complete human being.

And then further, the words in the context prove that he's not God, because he said, I'm a man who told you the truth that I heard, obviously he heard with his ears, I heard from, from is where, some other place, from another person.

This is the truth that I heard from God. Clearly, he cannot be the same God-man right there, but he's hearing the truth from God. If you're a God yourself, you don't hear the truth from anyone, because God is the source of the truth, right?

We all agree with that. God is the originator of the truth. The truth comes from God. God doesn't have to hear the truth from anywhere, because he has the truth with him, and he will reveal it to us by his choice.

But as you can see, Jesus says, I heard the truth from God. Clearly, he cannot be the God-man. All right, so that's very clear. Not only does the context show in that statement that he's not a God-man, but the word that is used there shows that he's not the God-man.

And in fact, to make it even more interesting, we see that God in the Old Testament says that he's not anthropos. Can you believe that? That God says that he's not anthropos. There's a Greek version. As you know, the Torah of the Old Testament is in Hebrew, but there is a Greek version of it known as the Septuagint.

So we can compare the Greek version of the Old Testament with the Greek New Testament, and let's see how these words use. Are they shared? Are they different? Well, God tells us in the Old Testament, in the Greek version of it, that he's not anthropos.

Jesus says, I am anthropos, but Yahweh says that he's not anthropos. He's not a human being, okay? For example, we have Hosea 11, nine. It says, for I am God and not a man. That's the English translation.

But in the Greek, he's saying, for I am God and I am not anthropos. Jesus says that he is anthropos. Another example to show you that this word is used to make a differentiation between God and human beings, in Isaiah chapter 31, verse three.

It is said that the Egyptians are being condemned, and it says that the Egyptians, they are anthropos and they are not God. Notice how God is making that distinction. He's saying, look, I'm not that, and they can't be me either.

I'm God, but they're not God, because they are what? They're anthropos. I am God, I am not anthropos. I am not a human being. So people say, well, does that mean God can't become it? He's showing you that he would never do that.

He would never become a man. Why? Because your Bible tells you in the book of Job that God is greater than man. The moment God becomes a man and God, now he's no longer greater than man. Why not? Because he is a man now.

He must maintain his majesty. He must maintain his greatness. He's the almighty, right? The most high God. If God becomes a man, he's no longer greater than man. Why not? Because now he is one of us now, right?

He's now a man. He's no longer greater than man. He is a man. So God always maintains his majesty. He doesn't have to come. That's why he sends prophets. That's why he gives revelation. You see? He always maintains his greatness.

Doesn't your Bible tell you that God is a jealous God? In Exodus chapter 34, 14? That God is jealous. He's a jealous God. That you would take God, that's why he told you don't make any images of him on anything in the heavens, on the earth, or in the sea below, correct?

The moment he becomes a man, well, if somebody saw him, couldn't they make an image of him and say, oh, look, there's God. Let me paint a picture of him. Now you're making an image of him. These words are important because God is maintaining his majesty, his greatness.

You see? He mentioned the Thomas argument, that Thomas said that he called Jesus his Lord and his God. As I've always mentioned, if you read in all the other Gospels, if you read in Mark, if you read in Matthew and in Luke, you see that they all mention that when Jesus appeared, he appeared unto the 11, meaning all the disciples were there.

No one was late. It says he appeared unto the 11 in Mark, he appeared unto the 11 in Matthew, he appeared unto the 11 in Luke. Why is it 11? Because Judas is missing, not Thomas. It's Judas is the one that's missing.

And notice, none of them mention that Thomas says these words, why? Because when Jesus appears, he appears to all 11 disciples. No one is late. They all have their issues together on whether this is really him, but then they all confirm that it's really Jesus.

Imagine that now. Imagine three out of the four Gospels, everybody forgets to mention that Thomas uttered these amazing words, that Thomas uttered these great words calling Jesus his Lord and his God.

Unlikely that that would happen, right? More than likely you would have more people remembering that than not. Yet the Gospel of John is the latest Gospel. It comes many years after the others, and yet why is it that the others forget to mention these important words?

Obviously, it never happened. It never happened, because Mark, Matthew, Luke come before John, and they show that it never happened because they say when Jesus appeared, he appeared unto the 11. In other words, there was no chance for Thomas to come late, because when Jesus appeared, all 11 disciples were there, with the exception of who?

Judas. So there was no time for Thomas to come late and then say, oh, you know what? You guys saw him already? Well, I don't believe it. Where's he at? The other story conflicts with that story. It says Jesus appeared to 11.

Nobody's missing. Thomas is already there, so there was no time for Thomas to say this according to the other Gospels. So I say that this was an elaboration to the story, is added to the story to make the story more appealing, but clearly, this is left out of the other Gospels.

He said that, the Quran says to judge by what Allah has revealed, and then he takes that as, this is what your Bible is today, or your Gospels. If you read what the Quran says, Allah says that he gave the Injil to Jesus.

Matthew is not mentioned. Allah never said he revealed anything to a person named Matthew. He never says he revealed anything to a person named Mark, Luke, or John, or Paul. None of these people are mentioned.

So what you have here is not what Allah reveals. So Allah's not telling you to judge by this. He says he revealed the Injil to Jesus. So we need to find the Gospel of Jesus. What you have as you open your book, you will see right at the beginning, is what?

What do you have at the beginning? It says this is the Gospel according to Matthew, right? Not according to Jesus. This is according to this person named Matthew. You read to the next one, it says according to Mark, according to Luke, according to John.

Read the Quran, it doesn't say anywhere that Allah revealed to these people anything. This is not what Allah's telling you to judge by. These are not his words. He didn't reveal this. He makes no confirmation of this, okay?

He says he gave the Injil to Jesus. So you need to find what Jesus spoke or has. He uses the Hebrew claim, right? That in Hebrews it is said that God said to Jesus, you know, your throne, oh God, is forever and ever.

Actually, this comes from the Psalms. Whoever wrote Hebrews, some of your scholars say that some think it's Paul, others say it's an unknown writer. But whoever wrote Hebrews made a mistake. If you check the original quotation of that statement, that goes back to Psalms, right?

This is from Psalms where it's a person actually praising God. This actually comes from the Psalms of Shoshanim. They are singing to God and they're saying, God, your throne is forever and ever. This is not God speaking to the son of Jesus.

Read the original quote and you will see that that's an error by whoever wrote Hebrews. That it's not God talking to Jesus, right? You can check it. It's Psalms 45 .6. That's where that very statement is from.

Psalms 45 .6 where you will find the statement, your throne, oh God, is forever and ever. This is not, you find, you will look at it and you will see it's not God talking to Jesus. Jesus is not mentioned there at all.