Matt Slick Live: December 6, 2024

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The following program is recorded content created by The Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live!

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Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at karm .org.

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When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers. Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877 -207 -2276.

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Here's Matt Slick. Hey everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick, and you're listening to Matt Slick Live.

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Today's date is December 6th, 2024. Nice Friday, and I think next week is

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Friday the 13th, and so we'll talk about that and what that might have originated on. It's really interesting.

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So there's that, and let me just say that if you want to give me a call, it is easy. All you have to do is dial 877 -207 -2276, and if you want to email me, you can do that just as easy.

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Just direct your email to info at karm .org, info at c -a -r -m -dot -o -r -g, karm .org,

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and put in a subject line, radio comment, radio question. All right, I'm going to go look at those right now, some of those, because Fridays are slow, usually, and December gets slow.

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So that's interesting. Looks like a black old male.

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I don't know. It might be interesting to read. Yeah. Oh, hey, wait a minute.

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We've got a whole bunch of black old male. Maybe. Let me check this out.

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Let's see. I am Zeldon, to tell you the truth, but everything I revealed about my religion was mainly figured out.

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I did research over the internet in Central Library in a place in Texas. Yeah, it's a long thing, and that reminds me.

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This is for real. I remember that back in high school,

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I had algebra and trigonometry, and I loved math.

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I enjoyed math classes, and so I would always help people, too, and I used math. I used trig and algebra a lot in one of the jobs

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I had as a designer, and I even taught a guy how to do trigonometry in 20 minutes. He was shocked.

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I said, no, that's how you do it. Here, let me show you. It's simple, and he was doing it. Anyway, so in my high school class, there was this professor.

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He's a really good professor. He knew how to just really kind of make it easy and explain complicated things, and it made it enjoyable, so I enjoyed it.

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I used to, in fact, I used to write trig equations out, just make them up and see if I could solve them because sometimes you can't always solve the things you get to, you know.

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Anyway, a lot of fun. So years later, I'd graduated from seminary, and so I'd already gone to college.

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It's like 10, 12 years later after high school, and I'm walking by our church in a strip mall.

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We had a facility there, and I see my professor from college,

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I mean, excuse me, from high school. I look up. I go, hey, how are you doing? You know, this is me,

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Matt Slick. He goes, oh, yeah, I remember you, and we got talking, and I said, what have you been up to?

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How come you're down here? This is, you know, this was like 100 miles away from, you know, from where the high school was.

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He said he moved down to San Diego, where I was. Well, we got talking, and I was shocked by what he said.

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He said, well, I couldn't believe it, and he was serious. He was taking a shower one day, and he got a revelation in a shower about who was, who

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God was and everything about him, and that he needed to tell everybody who

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God really was, and I'm staring at him, not able to fully comprehend the inane comments that he was making about God that were inconsistent, and he didn't know what

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I did for, you know, that I was an apologist at the time and, you know, knew how to answer this stuff, and I just sat there in shock, and I tried a few questions, you know, to kind of dig into some stuff, but I had to go.

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He had to go, and it didn't really get very far, but it was nice to meet him, but it was pretty obvious to me that he didn't know what he was doing.

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He didn't know how to think these things through critically, and this just goes to show you that intelligence does not mean you're going to end up with truth.

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You can believe all kinds of wacko things and be very intelligent.

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It's a spiritual issue, and sometimes people get the wrong idea about things, and then what they do is they run with it, and they turn into people who couldn't find their way out of a wet paper bag if it was on a centrifuge.

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They were on a centrifuge, a NASA centrifuge, and it was pointing outward while it was on it because it still couldn't get out.

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So, you know, it does happen like that. Well, nevertheless, if you want to give me a call, the number is 877 -207 -2276, and I want to hear from you.

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Give me a call. And why don't we, let's see, not sure what that means. Let's get to Richard from Winston -Salem,

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North Carolina. Welcome, man. You're on the air. Hey there.

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I'm the one that called and asked you about, uh, if, uh, does everybody hear the trumpet?

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Oh, does everyone hear the trumpet? Yeah, but I've got another question.

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Okay. Uh, I've heard, uh,

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I think it's years ago that every time you deny the Holy Spirit of coming into your life, uh, that God will harden your heart, and it's harder to accept

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Christ. What? That doesn't make any sense. You mean, okay, well, that you deny that he's come into your heart or you don't want him to come into your heart?

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You're not a Christian. What is, which is it? No, that, that you deny. I mean, when people, when preachers ask them if they want to receive

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Christ and they, they don't receive them, that God will harden your heart.

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Maybe. But the next time it's going to be harder to accept Christ. Well, that may be the case, but I couldn't say that it is or is not because no scripture that I'm aware of says that.

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Plus we don't know what goes on in everybody's hearts. So it's hard to say what goes on in their hearts.

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And so unless they can show me scripture that says what that theory is, then

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I can't affirm it. That's what you should do is say, show me that in the Bible, show it to me in scripture.

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Right. Okay. Well, like I said, I heard, heard it years ago, but I didn't know if it was true or not.

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I would not put too much credence in it. Okay. Okay.

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Okay. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. All right. Let's get to Mark from LA.

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Mark, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Mark. Hey, this is

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Mark. How are you doing, Matt? Yeah, I'm doing okay, man. Hanging in there. Where do you got buddy? Great.

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Yeah. I was going to see if you can help me fully understand what's going on at the end of John 10, when

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Jesus quotes Psalms 82. I'm just trying to understand what he's saying there when they pick up stones to count for basically claiming deity, right?

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Yes. Yeah. The pericope you're talking about starts in John 10, 30. And it says many, it says,

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I and the father are one that pick up stones again to throw at him. Many good works of the father I've shown you for which of these are you stoning me?

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But for good work, we don't stone you. But you being a man, make yourself out to be God. And Jesus says, is it not written in your law?

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I said, you are gods. If you call them gods to whom the word of God came with the scripture cannot be broken. Do you say of him whom the father sanctified and set into the world?

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You're blaspheming because I said, I'm the son of God. Jesus is playing with them. Now, what he did was he said something very significant.

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He says, it's not written in your law. Now, the law is for everybody.

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It's and he says, your law, he's calling them to task on this issue. And when he goes to Psalm 82, six, he says,

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I, you know, I said, you are gods. Psalm 82 is what's called an imprecatory Psalm.

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And a precatory Psalm is a Psalm where there's judgment and the wishing of harm upon people.

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Believe it or not, they're called imprecatory Psalms. And there's more than one. So what it says in Psalm 82, verse one,

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God takes his stand in his own congregation. He judges in the midst of the rulers. Now notice the

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Jews are going to know about this Psalm. So when he's applying it to them, this is what he's saying.

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He's using it to sum up the Psalm. Verse two, how long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked, vindicate the weak and fatherless do justice to the afflicted and destitute rescue the weak and needy, deliver them out of the hand of the wicked, vindicate the weak and fatherless.

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You've already got that first five. They do not know, nor do they understand. They walk about in darkness.

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What's he saying to them? You don't understand. You walk around in darkness. All the foundations of the earth are shaken.

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I said, you are gods and all of your sons are the most high. Nevertheless, you will die like men and fall like any one of the princes arise.

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Oh, God, judge the earth for it is you who possesses all the nations. So it's a judgment song upon the people at that time that wicked judges who are not carrying out their proper duty to take care of the people.

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That's a loose way of saying it. And Jesus is applying that to the Pharisees at the same time.

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Okay, so in the same way, God is chastising the rulers in the Old Testament, he's chastising the

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Pharisees there in the New Testament, John 10. Okay, that makes more sense to me now.

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Okay, there you go. All right. Appreciate it. Sure, man. No problem.

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You got anything else? Uh, no, I think I got lots of questions, but I think that's good.

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Well, if you have more, uh, call back, get in line and, and, uh, well, if you don't mind, if I don't want to hold up the line, but I have another cool question.

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Sure. What? Go ahead. Well, so, um, I'm, I'm a reformed background, but the one question that I just can't are one, one thing

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I just can't wrap my head around is this, um, understanding that certainly if, you know,

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God has exhaustive knowledge of everything means that God has to decree everything, right?

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So he predestined everything. I certainly believe this, but, um, how, how can we under stand this fully if, um, man is still responsible for his actions?

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All right. So I'm gonna give you two quick concepts. Uh, we may have a break here before I get to them, but I'll try and have it make sense.

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Um, so Adam was in the garden and he chose to rebel and eat the fruit.

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He did not, uh, I mean, he did it of his own free will. No one forced him.

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So he's the one responsible because he decided to do something. This, he's called the efficient cause, the efficient cause of his own action.

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That's what it's called. Now the proximate cause is the garden with the trees, with the fruit, with the command, don't eat it.

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And God letting Satan come in the garden. So God's the proximate cause of Adam's sin, but it doesn't mean he's the efficient cause.

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Efficient causation means that you're responsible because you're the one doing the action on your own. No one's forcing you, but the proximate cause is the condition in which you freely act.

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Okay. You got that. All right. Yeah. With me so far. Okay. Imagine a piece of paper.

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Okay. Imagine a piece of paper is blank and in the middle is a dot and that dot is

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God. And you draw squiggly lines from that lot, that dot out to the edge of the paper. 20, 30 lines, doesn't matter.

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Each one of those represents a potential existence timeline of all things. Whichever one

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God actualizes, all those events in it are going to occur, including the efficient cause choices of free will people within the proximate conditions that God has brought about.

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I wish they could make them hold on. Right back after these messages, please stay tuned.

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It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276.

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Here's Matt Slick. Robert, welcome back to the show. And I think we, Oh no, he's still there.

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Let's get on back on with Mark. Whoops. There we go. Mark. Uh, you're on the air again. You're still there.

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All right. Yes. All right, man. So I had to kind of wrap it up quickly for the break, but, uh, did that make sense?

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Yeah, I was, I lost you when you were talking about dot middle paper, all the different lines,

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God chooses the world right to actualize. Okay. So let me go back over it a bit slowly here.

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So on the piece of paper is nothing except the dot and the nothing out there just represents nothing.

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And you draw squiggly lines from the dot out to the end of the paper, but just squiggly lines. Each one of those lines represents a timeline that God is aware that he could create because he knows all things infinitely.

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He knows what he can bring into existence. And those just represent different thoughts of timelines that are, you know, throughout all of history because God knows everything, right?

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First John 3 .20. So out of, let's just say there's a million of those, a kabillion, it doesn't matter.

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What he does is what we could do, let's put it this way. We can take that line, which a particular line, and we could microscope down into it and look and look and look where we see, you know, you or me, uh, walking and taking a turn in a store left or right.

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We freely choose to do it, but we couldn't do it. If he did not bring the universe into existence, the galaxy, the solar system, the planet, the continent, the city down to where we are, the store, et cetera, all through working through the ultimate causation of God for us to be able to make our free will choices.

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It's, we're able to choose, but God knows exactly what will happen because of, out of all possibilities that could exist, he brought into existence one particular timeline in which we have freedom, which we are able to make choices consistent with our nature.

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And they're going to occur because it gets more complicated than that, but that, that level, uh, just leave it there.

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Okay. Okay. Okay. All right.

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Yeah, that makes a little more sense. And I guess the difference between that and like Molinism, for example, is

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God sees the possible world that man makes and he chooses. And obviously that's a big no, no, that's correct.

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It's a big no, no, because it means God's choices depend on man's choices and it denies contingent on man. Okay. Yes.

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And there's some violations of some certain doctors. We get into that white, white's bad, but you're on the right track, buddy.

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You're getting it. Great. All right. Appreciate it. All right, man. God bless.

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All right. Okay. I'll talk to you later. Thank you. All right. All right. Now let's get to Jay from Ohio.

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Jay, welcome. You're on the air. Hey Matt, how you doing, man?

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Oh, hanging in here. I got a bit of a cough, but other than that, I'm okay. Hanging in there. Yeah.

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That cough's really hanging on, huh? It's been a while. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, it is.

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That's what it is. You know, that's what it is. All right, man. What do you got? Yeah.

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So yesterday you were reading about baptism in the Didache and I just wanted to follow up on that a little bit.

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Sure. What do you got? Um, yeah, so I'm, I'm a reformed Baptist and ironically this, this may be a shock, but two

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Christians disagree on the same passage of a text. So, uh, when

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I, when you're just to clarify your position basically is like you, they would be baptizing in water, but the method that they're doing it is just pouring it on their head while standing in water, basically.

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That's one way. Yes. Um, and the reason I said that is because when I look at the patterns baptized with water anointed, with oil anointed, with blood sprinkled, with blood, with something always is applied to the object.

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That's just a pattern of scripture. And so when I see that, and plus the mathematics, don't know if you heard the mathematics analysis of is it possible to baptize that people in one night, you know, it has caused people to think that's what

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I'm trying to get them to do. Sure. Yeah. That's I I've read your article about that as well.

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It's pretty interesting stuff. I'd never considered a lot of that. Okay. Um, the specifically

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I'm, I'm was referring to chapter seven in the dedicate, which you read from yesterday. I think what they are saying is the typical mode is submersion baptism.

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And if that's not possible, then to go to a pouring or a sprinkling baptism and where I'm getting that, um, baptized into the name of the father and of the son of the

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Holy spirit in living water. If you have not living water baptized into other water, and if, if you cannot in cold and warm, but if you have not either pour out water thrice upon the head into the name of the father and of the son of the

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Holy spirit. So what, how I'm reading that basically is like the, the normal traditional mode would be to baptize into water.

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And if that's not possible as in submersed in water, and if that is not possible, if there's no like body of water around you, then a pouring baptism would be appropriate.

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Basically. What do you think about that? I think it's logically possible.

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Um, that those that's within, uh, within a norm of being able to say this possible, uh, you know, pouring water is accepted as baptism.

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And what I find is it says, uh, baptized you having recited all the precepts baptizing the father, son,

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Holy spirit in running water. And I don't know what that means in running water. Does it mean you're standing in running water or does it mean you have to be submerged in running water?

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Cause it just doesn't tell us. So I, you know, I just can't make a strong case either way. And, uh, yeah,

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I, I get that. It's a good, it's a good point. I think though, I think we can get there just because the third option it's saying, if, if these things aren't possible, then pour out water thrice upon the head.

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So I, from that, I, and I, I get what you mean. It's, it's a good point, but from that,

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I would say, I would say that if that's not possible, if there's no body of water, if there's no river around you, then pouring out thrice on the head would be, you know, that would be like the alternative option from the normal, from the normal method basically would be my understanding.

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I think that's a good point. I think it's good logic because the implication is there's an, uh, an immersion and if that can't happen, then poor.

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So, yeah, I think that's a, I think it's a good point. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. Yeah.

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And I, I've looked into it a little bit in the past. Like I said, I'm, I'm Reformed Baptist. Um, and basically what

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I understand from the research that I've done into, into like this chapter of the

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Didache and the Didache itself is like, obviously we're talking about Middle Eastern nations and stuff like that prominently in the first century.

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Um, a lot of them don't have access to water, to ponds or to rivers or anything like that being in the desert and stuff.

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So this was like the alternative option. If that were the case, basically, if you weren't around anything or you were, you know, under persecution or something like that, you couldn't travel to water.

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That would be the method that they would allow for. Basically, that would be like the exception to the, to the normal cause.

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Yeah, I would agree. You know, I've been to Israel a couple of times and we've driven around and there are just some areas where you just don't find water.

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I'm sorry. Right. And large areas, large swaths, you know, you have to carry water with you.

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So we could theoretically say, theoretically, I mean, you wouldn't die in this hill at all, that there were more baptisms by pouring or than there were by immersion.

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Theoretical is the case. If that geographical area is taken into, but then if they were in a big city near the river, then maybe it would be poured the other way, but good points.

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All right, man. Yeah. All right, man. God bless. All right. Well, thank you.

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Yep. God bless you. All right. God bless. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages.

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Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276.

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Here's Matt Slick. Everybody welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, the number is 877 -207 -2276.

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Also, um, it looks like a room on a clubhouse crashed or something nefarious.

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I don't know. Anyway. Also, I just want to remind you that, uh, this month is the matching funds drive.

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And so month of December, if you want to support us and you like what you hear and you want us to keep ourselves on the air, you can support us.

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And to do that, you just go to CARM .org forward slash donate CARM .org forward slash donate.

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All the information you need is right there. And so if you donate $20, it becomes 40. Another 20 gets matched to it.

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Just let you know. And again, it's CARM .org forward slash donate. Let's get to Scott from Utah.

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Scott, welcome. You're on the air. Scott, are you there?

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Can you hear me? Yes, I can. I can hear you. Uh -huh. Yes, yes, yes. Yes. I just had a question.

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I was wondering if you ever thought about or pondered, um, one of many instances.

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But, uh, when, uh, Satan was tempting Jesus in, uh, when he was fasting for 40 days and 40 nights, how did he not know who

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Jesus was? Who says he didn't know? Because doesn't he go back and forth to heaven to ask

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God permission for things? And isn't Jesus there being God? Well, yeah, uh,

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Satan would have known that. I would certainly assume that's the case. Okay.

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I don't know of anything in the scripture that says that Satan didn't know who he was. Maybe that's all the more reason why he wanted to tempt him.

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Right. Yeah. I was, I was just listening to a YouTube thing that Jordan Peterson was doing about the

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Bible and stuff. And he brought up something about that. And I was just wondering, you know.

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Yeah, Jordan Peterson's really good with, with stuff, but he needs to be careful about theology. I'd love to be able to tutor him on certain areas of theology just to get him a little bit more polished because he's a good representative of good thinking, but he needs to have better information.

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But nothing in this scripture that I'm aware of says that Satan didn't know who he was. Okay. Right.

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I, I just wondered because, I mean, if, if he knows that he was almighty God, you're tempting him with everything that he already has created and owns.

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Yeah. And a lot of people make a mistake of thinking, well, that's just not a smart thing to do. Of course, he wouldn't do that because he knows that he's

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Jesus, but they forget about the insanity of evil and the fallenness of the evil one.

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He's not rational. He, I mean, he is to a point, but he's insanely evil rational and he will work even if it's against what obviously seems to be the, you know, victory in the place of God.

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God's going to work. He's still going to work against him. It's just how evil he is. So, uh, yeah,

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I would say that maybe God had temporary blinded him to who Jesus was or something like that.

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But yeah, I mean, the evil thing definitely makes sense. Yeah. But remember, always find it in scripture.

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It's easy to just say, well, we think this and that. Well, okay. But do you have any scriptural backup for that?

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Now, if they say, you know, someone says something like, look, it's not in scripture. Here's my position.

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I, I'm not going to die in this hill is what I think. And I have my reasons, but, uh, you know, and they just give you that.

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It's just nothing more than an opinion. That's fine. You're doing that, but don't say things like, oh, this is the reason when the

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Bible doesn't say, okay, that's what you're right. Right. Simple. All right. Gotcha.

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I thank you. I appreciate your time. Hey, no problem, man. God bless. Have a good day.

27:23

Bye -bye. Okay. You too, man. God bless. All right. Um, now let's get to Tom from Florida.

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Um, Tom, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, hello, Matt. Um, may I please have your perspective and opinion on two questions, both related to eschatology and times.

27:45

Sure. No problem. And if I may, the first one, um, is the familiar passage when

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Jesus is speaking in Matthew 24, concerning one will be taken. One will be left.

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That's the way we're taking the, uh, I'm sorry. The wicked are once taken, not the good.

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Uh -huh. That was my question. Your position is the wicked. Yeah. Could you give me just a little backing for that?

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Yeah, sure. Sure. No problem. So what I'm going to do, I've done this so many times I can just basically quote it.

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So Matthew 24, Luke 17. All right. Matthew 24, 37 and Luke 17, 26.

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And so it says, uh, as it was in days of Noah, so shall it be the days of the coming of the son of man, for they were eating, they were drinking and they were giving in marriage until Noah entered the ark and the flood came in.

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Luke 17 says, destroyed them all. Matthew 24 says, took them all away. So the ones who are eating and drinking and giving in marriage, you make a lot of noise in the background there, man, it's coming through.

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So, uh, the ones who are eating and drinking, giving in marriage are the wicked people. That's who it was talking about till the flood came in, took them all away.

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Matthew 24, till the flood came and destroyed them all in Luke 17. Then it says two men will be taken.

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One will be left. So the context of who's taken is the wicked. And then in Luke 17, they said, they asked in the last verse of Luke 17 and where, where are they taken to?

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And the answers where the body is. They're also the vultures will gather. So Jesus tells them that's what they're taken to.

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It's not the rapture because otherwise it wouldn't be, you know, taken to a place of death. They'd be taken to heaven. Okay.

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Yeah. Very, very good. Uh, therefore the ones left behind are indeed the righteous. Yes. Now, okay.

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Yes. So let me sidestep over to Matthew 13. Okay. And I'm going to read a little bit here and show you something a little bit more interesting.

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Now, before I do that, there are two ages in the Bible, this age and the age to come.

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And this age we have marriage death. We have problems, temptations, and the age to come, no marriage.

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We have everlasting life, the full revelation of it and everything. So there's two ages. Now in the parable of the wheat and the tears, you know, do we tear up the tears?

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And he goes, no, unless you trip the wheat. Also verse 30, allow both to go together until the harvest.

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And in the time of the harvest, I will say to the reapers first, gather up the tears and bind them in bundles to burn them up, but gather the wheat into my barn.

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So the harvest at that time, the first one's gathered to the tears and those of the wicked.

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Now, when you go to Matthew, when Jesus interprets a parable about 10 verses later, he says, the world is the, you know, is where the good seed and the bad seed are.

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And the good seed of the seeds of the sons of the kingdom, the enemy who sowed the bad seeds of tears is the enemy.

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And the harvest is the end of the age. That's 39. And the reapers are angels.

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So just as the tears are gathered and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age, a son of man will send forth his angels and gather out of his kingdom, all stumbling blocks and those who commit lawlessness.

31:08

Now, some interpret this to mean after a thousand year reign of Christ, that Jesus will, will take them away.

31:14

And then the wicked, I mean, the good will be gathered, but there's only one end of the age and one gathering of the people, one rapture, not two.

31:25

So it's a problem for that position. And I'm just throwing that out there to make you think, okay. No, thank you.

31:31

I, I, uh, actually embrace that, that position growing up in the PCA and, um,

31:37

I just want you to continue on how to defend. So maybe I should have told you that I wasn't here to argue it. I wanted to hear a third party's point of view.

31:45

Well, you got me, got me intrigued because I'm the only one I know who teaches that. And so you, and PCA church in America, I was a

31:52

PCA pastor for a little while. So I was an elder and, um, and, uh, and I just respect your teaching.

32:02

And this is a topic I, uh, love to debate with people, um, on a friendly terms.

32:08

Um, it was only maybe five people in the world who in my life care to even talk about it, but, uh, it's kind of an interesting topic.

32:16

And, um, yeah, the, and it's not, it's not, as you well know, it's not the dispensational view, which is the most popular.

32:23

Right. Yeah. Yeah. By the way, if I may tell you a quick story,

32:29

I don't know if you have a lot of callers waiting, but, um, just one, um, when I was, uh, um, helping the youth program,

32:35

I was on staff at a PCA church and I showed the movie left behind and being, uh, young in my faith,

32:43

I was 19 actually at the time. Uh, and the, uh, one of the pastors came in and I said, what do you think of that movie?

32:49

I showed it to the youth group. He said, well, I don't think the elders would agree with the theology behind that movie.

32:57

I thought that was just kind of funny. And that's when I thought, well, there's a different point of view. And at that point I went on the, uh, you know, the search for what pretty much, uh, explained quite well.

33:06

Could I ask another related question? Sure. Real fast, but just a little FYI trivia.

33:12

That was the movie that was shown at a church when I was 17, that caused me to want to know more about Jesus.

33:18

And I walked up forward and yeah. Interesting. Okay. Which is interesting.

33:23

And yeah, very quickly. Um, now we're in Thessalonians and, uh,

33:29

Paul is talking about how the dead in Christ will rise first. And then we, who are left alive, will meet the

33:36

Lord in the air and be with him forever. Stop. Since the Bible now is silent in that passage, we got a break.

33:44

So hold on. And then we'll get back to it. I love that. Okay. Folks, we'll be right back after these messages, then we'll get to Scott from Washington on Reformed Theology.

33:53

We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276.

34:16

Here's Matt Slick. All right, buddy. Welcome back to the show. When they reactivate Tom, I'll get it back on with him.

34:22

And just want to let you know that the month of December is matching funds month.

34:28

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34:34

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34:40

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34:46

Let's get back on the air with Tom. Tom, are you there? I am, Matt. Thanks for taking the second question quickly.

34:53

In Thessalonians, Paul is talking about how the dead in Christ will rise first, and then we who are alive in Christ will meet him in the air and be with him forever.

35:03

And then there's a full stop, per se. And therefore, the Bible or that passage is silent on where does everybody go?

35:10

And the question is, does everybody go to heaven or does everybody come back to a new earth or the earth?

35:16

May I have your opinion on that? Sure. The chapter break, I think, is unfortunate because it relates it to the day of the

35:23

Lord. And when you go to 2 Peter 3 10,

35:28

I think it is, it's 2 Peter 3 10. It says the day of the Lord will come like a thief in which the new heavens and new earth are made.

35:34

The heavens are melted. So I see them as happening on the same day. So my view, my view is this.

35:43

This is my view. People disagree. That's fine. That we're going to bring ourselves to self -destruction.

35:50

Matthew 24, 24. If the if those days be not cut short, no flesh would be left. I believe that's a prophecy of fulfillment, a counterfactual fulfillment, actually, of Genesis 217, where God says to Adam that you eat of the fruit, you're going to die and all mankind is going to bring itself to death.

36:07

And so I suspect at the end that what Jesus is going to do is come down. The kingdom of God is now on millennial and that he's going to take out of his kingdom, the wicked and take them and destroy them.

36:18

And now that might be an Armageddon, because there's a verse in Revelation 16. It says three include spirits like frogs, go out to gather them together for for Armageddon.

36:26

So maybe that's what it is. I don't know. But we know from Luke 17 that the men taken are the people, one of the field, one is taken, one's not the ones who are taken or are taken to a place of destruction and death.

36:37

So it makes sense to connect them that that it's proof of anything that they go to Armageddon and they're destroyed by the the efforts that they were going to be using to try and war against the true people of God and that at during this time, maybe nukes, maybe plagues are going to come out and God's going to stop it because it's the last final ditch effort of the wicked and it'll lead to self -death, the destruction of mankind, and that God's going to stop it and say, see,

37:04

I told you so, a gigantic celestial told you so. So with that in mind, my view is that the rapture occurs, but the wicked are taken first to place a judgment.

37:14

Then we are changed and we go to heaven with God, with Christ. The wicked are judged right there.

37:21

New heavens and new earth are made. And then things get really good after that. That's my short view.

37:28

Just real quick, then meeting in the air that I think your view is then the believers with Jesus go back up, if you will, to heaven.

37:37

Yep, that's right. As opposed to do you think it's cogent to think we sort of hover until a new earth is built and then go down back to the earth?

37:46

So I don't think so. The reason I don't think so is because there's three heavens and the first heaven is the air, the clouds.

37:55

The second is the stars, the moon, and the third is the place of God. Well, we know that Adam's sin affected the physical created order.

38:02

So that would be the first and second levels. And so we assume it would be the second level. We know for a fact it's the first.

38:09

So if if we're in the first level in the new heavens to earth, that's really problematic.

38:15

I think we're going to be with God where he is and everything is get vaporized, remade, cleaned up. OK. OK, well, thanks again.

38:23

I'll let the next caller go and appreciate all you're doing. Thank you for sticking with the word.

38:29

I try. All right. But God bless. All right.

38:35

That was interesting. I know I have an odd view. I know that. But I have reasons for it, you know, and and I'm open to being, you know, being convinced of something else.

38:43

I think I think I can. All right. Let's get to Scott from Washington. Scott, welcome. You're on the air.

38:50

Good afternoon, Matt. How are you? Hanging in there, butter. Hanging in there. What do you got, man? Yeah.

38:57

So I was just wondering, and this is in the context of reform theology alone, not not anything else.

39:03

But could you tell me the literal as well as the practical difference between compatibilism versus, you know, not compatibilism when it comes to Calvinism?

39:15

Right. Libertarianism. Libertarian free will is the view that the unbeliever is capable of of himself to be able to choose

39:26

God, that he is at liberty to be able to do that. Libertarianism. I sort of meant the other way.

39:34

Well, more like hyper Calvinism, maybe. But that's, you know, a different thing.

39:39

Hyper Calvinism is different. That's that's that's you know, they they they're compatibilists, but they're whacked because they deny other aspects.

39:48

But if you want, I can, you know, continue with compatibilism and discuss it.

39:54

But I don't know. What do you want? What do you got? Well, the reason maybe this will help. So, you know,

40:00

I'm a compatibilist good when it comes to, you know, God regenerating me and all that.

40:07

And so basically there's that's what it is. Yeah. Compatible. For those who don't know, let me explain it, that God's predestination and decrees are compatible with our free will choices.

40:17

They both are compatible. That's what compatibilism is. Libertarianism is anti compatibilism. OK, so go ahead.

40:25

Yeah, so so exactly. And so, you know, I belong to a reformed church and there I know there's at least one or two people at my church who who

40:33

I see. I don't know the best term to call it, but they're not compatibilists. They're basically

40:39

I don't know. I don't know the term libertarian. That's sort of what

40:44

I was, you know. Yeah. I mean, just ask them, OK, just ask them what they what their view is.

40:50

A lot of people just assume that that human free will is just all you need. It's just capable of of believing anything.

40:57

It's just up to you to decide because, you know, you have the wisdom or not the wisdom. It's just up to you. And that's as far as they go.

41:03

They have a thought, thought that through and realize and haven't realized that there's problems with that serious problems.

41:09

And that is not the scriptures teach. So just ask them, you know.

41:14

Yeah. What do you think it means? And stuff like that. Not a big deal. Yeah. Well, what what do you what would you say to the person who says we we don't have a free will whatsoever?

41:25

Well, then how can we be responsible for any decisions in our sins if we don't have any free will? Then you're saying we don't have any free will doesn't make any sense because it means you don't have any free will to say you don't have any free will.

41:35

So it's not your free will saying it's a wife. You trust you, but you're saying you don't have any free will. It doesn't make any sense. That's equivalent to materialism and physicalism, which is not a

41:43

Christian worldview. OK, yeah, I mean, that's what I say. So so, yeah,

41:50

OK, well, that's basically it. I just half of my question was just kind of what it's about. The other half was, is there a term for that?

41:57

But I guess some call it semi -Pelagianism. There's a reference of semi -Pelagianism in that full

42:04

Pelagianism is that a human being is born with no fallen nature at all and that he or she becomes fallen when he or she first sins.

42:15

That's a complete heresy. Semi -Pelagianism is the view that we're just mostly dead or not completely just mostly dead.

42:23

OK, Miracle Max talked about that. And so the semi -Pelagian view also kind of works with what's called prevenient grace.

42:32

That prevenient grace is the grace that comes before a decision where God graces you with grace and it enables you to be able to get to that place of being able to make a decision.

42:44

You're kind of in a neutral place, kind of. And so that's called prevenient grace. I call it kindergarten theology because it makes no sense to say that.

42:52

But I know a lot of intelligent people believe it. Nope, it doesn't work. I'll tell you why. And I expose why it doesn't work.

42:59

But that's that view. So sometimes people have combinations of those views and you just kind of work through them and they haven't even thought them out.

43:07

A lot of times don't see how they relate or don't relate. So it's going to work with them. Ask them.

43:13

OK. OK, well, good. Yeah, that is that's all

43:19

I got for you. All right, man. God bless, buddy. All right. Yeah, you too.

43:24

Thanks, man. All right. All right. So why would

43:29

I say prevenient grace is kindergarten theology? Because we have just imagine this from that perspective.

43:36

I'll exaggerate it just slightly to make the point. You have the view of semi -Pelagianism that a bunch of people are out there.

43:43

They're fallen, but they still have the ability to make free will choices. But their sins affecting them.

43:49

And so they might need a little help. So what God does is he he gives them a grace.

43:55

He is gracious to them. He does something to them inside and it kind of makes them neutral.

44:01

So now they're able to just kind of be that free will place. They can go, hey, I think I'll choose God or I think

44:07

I will choose God. And that kind of works. It's called prevenient grace, the grace that comes before that enables someone to be able to make a free will choice for or against God.

44:16

Now, there's a problem here because, first of all, does

44:22

God not know what to do to somebody in order to get him to believe? Well, of course he does.

44:28

You just show his his glory and they'll repent. That's what that's natural in the presence of God.

44:34

People are undone. They recognize their own sin. It's a natural byproduct of being the presence of the of the holy one.

44:41

He's awesome. He's great. He's fantastic. And so if you're going to be saying that, well, prevenient grace,

44:48

God wants to enable somebody kind of work it so that they can then choose. Well, then that that means that God wants neutrality in a person.

44:55

Is that it? And so he wants to get him to a neutral place. Well, it's just up to them. This is humanist philosophy.

45:02

It's saying we have to be able to make our true choices according to our consciousness.

45:08

And so therefore, what God does is he enables us to be neutral so that we can make the decision.

45:14

And why does Bob believe in Frank does not? Because Bob is wiser. And why did Bob's free will enable him to believe in Frank did not?

45:21

Because that's his free will. Well, wait a minute. Why does it work like that? Well, it's good the way it is. It doesn't make any sense.

45:27

They don't have those kind of answers. But we do in reformed theology. Well, in biblical theology,

45:33

God grants that they have faith. Philippians 129. Jesus says, you can't come to me unless it's granted to you from the

45:39

Father. John 6, 65. A lot of people don't like that, though.

45:45

A lot of people don't like it that God is the one who gives faith and grants it to whom he desires. No, no, no, that can't be true.

45:54

Because Jesus is the blonde haired blue eyed Caucasian surfer dude dressed in a woman's nightgown, standing at the door of your heart and asking permission for you to let him in.

46:02

Because it's up to you. Humanist philosophy again. People naturally want to be in the place of God making their own choices for what is right or wrong.

46:12

And it's got to be me who decides. And how do I know that it has to be me who decides? Because I decided it has to be me who decides.

46:19

They don't get that out of scripture. They don't get it out of scripture. They get it out of themselves.

46:25

Because the scripture doesn't say, it's just up to you. It says, it's up to God. You cannot come to me unless it's granted to you from the

46:33

Father. John 6, 65, Jesus says. That's it. And there's so many other verses like that.

46:41

But I'm just saying, that's it. And so I teach the theology that makes people upset. Because it's right out of scripture.

46:50

And a lot of people don't believe it. Get you to think. We're out of time. And may the

46:56

Lord bless you. Today is Friday. So you're going to have a good weekend, I hope. And you go to church and tithe at the church and stuff like that.

47:02

And just to remind you that this is matching funds drive here at the

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47:14

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47:21

We have a matching funds drive. It'll just be doubled. And thank you very much. May the Lord bless you. And by his grace, we'll be back on the air on Monday.

47:30

I hope you have a great evening. Oh, and by the way, one last thing. I'm going to be in a debate tonight in about an hour or so.

47:37

And if you want to find out where that is, just go to CARM .org forward slash debate.

47:43

And it'll take you to the page. And then you can see for tonight's debate. God bless everybody.

47:50

I'm out of here. Another program powered by the