Dead Men Walking Podcast: Unconditional Election

Opening Banter and Podcast Welcome

Okay ready? Yeah. Exploring theology, doctrine, and all of the fascinating subjects in between, broadcasting from an undisclosed location, Dead Men Walking starts now. Well hello everyone, welcome back to another episode of Dead Men Walking.

I am Greg Moore. And who is this guy? And I am Jason Hamlin. Yeah, the ham man. It's like, did you just have me announce myself? Yeah, I don't think I'm gonna announce you anymore. I think I'll just look to you.

That's fun. I'm gonna have to come up with something.

And then you can get your radio voice going like, hey Jason Hamlin. Yeah. It's five minutes top of the hour, traffic's clear. You know what the gas prices were last year, Tom? Gas on 54th and 3rd is $2 .59.

Those radio DJ days, man, I don't know if we should go there. That's a good day. But we're all hopped up on Coke Zero, so who knows what's gonna happen this episode. We're partying up in here. But hey, listen, I did want to mention that we had a few people reach out to us on Instagram and give us some episode ideas.

And I thought that was interesting. If there's any of the listeners out there that are thinking about a topic or a doctrine or some systematic theology or just want us to discuss, we would take it into consideration, don't you think?

Definitely. And it was an interesting topic, and Jason and I talked about it. We're gonna roll it around. Right now, we're continuing on with basically a five-part series. I don't wanna call it a series, but basically we're doing five episodes of the Five Points of Tulip, T-U-L-I-P.

I was just editing down our first episode. That was an amazing episode. Total depravity, yeah. So when you hear this, this will already be out. I said, we're amazing. No one loves Jason more than Jason.

We are so awesome. No, it was really good. I was in the Bay editing it down, listening to it, and we had some really good verses on there, just some really good talk about it. I did notice that, I think I almost misspelled tulip one time.

I think I said T-U-L-P, whatever, but it's tulip. So it's the total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace. Good. Oh, you're making a face at me. I remembered it.

I was like, is he gonna make it? Does he know these?

Because I don't think I know them. You were looking at me weird. I was like, does he either, he's got a burp or he needs to say something.

Good to see a few, all the five.

So yeah, the T was total depravity. We did that last week. We're gonna put these all, I think we're gonna upload them all in a row for you. So you'll just have boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Is that five?

Boom, boom, boom. Yep. Five in a row. And today we focus on the U. Unconditional election. Unconditional election. But before we get to that, I don't know. In a few days.

Anything new going on? Uh, in life, things are just awesome. Things are just really good. Yeah. Working, working at the old FOMO Co. And, uh, you know, Emsley's doing awesome. She is actually, um. How old is your daughter now?

Starting to scream a lot more, use her voice a lot more. And, um, she's six months. Usually in restaurants, she likes to, she likes to scream at everyone, but she's only saying hi, you know, she's just saying hi.

She wants, just wants to be a part of the conversation. It's all right. Can she sit up?

She can. Because usually six months is about when they're starting to sit up by themselves. She is an advanced baby.

We've been told. And, uh, we are going to, you know, grab that and be thankful with that. Hold on to it. But yeah, other than that. What, what, uh, what's going on with you, man?

Michigan Vacations, the Upper Peninsula, and God's Country

Oh, I just got back from, uh, South Haven, Michigan. Very nice. On Lake Michigan. So we go up there once a year with the family and basically just live on the beach. For those that are outside of Michigan, we obviously have the great lakes here in Michigan.

And they're actually beautiful. And Lake Michigan is probably one of the more beautiful ones. Obviously Superior in the upper peninsula is gorgeous, but that one's, uh, geez, even through the summer is about 50 degrees just because it's so deep and, you know, so far North.

So Lake Michigan, you get, you know, nice 70 degree water, white, sandy beaches. Went up there with the kids. Well, you know, we set up at about nine 30, 10 o 'clock and we don't leave until seven or eight.

So we're just on the beach all day. South Haven has a nice little walkable downtown area where we can shop and eat and things like that, but we're up there for four or five days, just kind of getting in some relaxed time before we start homeschooling next week.

Is that the, the normal, uh, uh, vacation that you take once a year?

Like, yeah, we have friends that live outside of Grand Rapids. Nice. And they have a, uh, house with a, with a, basically a full kitchenette basement, you know, finished basement. So we, we would go there and our kids are the same age.

Oh, cool. And, uh, we would jump off from, from South of Grand Rapids or an ADA. Uh, you can get to Grand Haven, South Haven, Muskegon, Holland, uh, you know, all those different little touristy towns along the West side of the state within about 45 to 50 minutes.

So we would just do day trips. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and then save a couple bucks on staying with friends. Oh yeah. But this year his, uh, father actually, as we were headed up there, passed away. Oh, um, so we got a hotel in, uh, Holland.

My brother was in Holland. My brother does like every year, but now he's doing Holland. Yeah. Yeah. Then my sister came up and visited with her husband, Cody, my sister, Charity and Cody came up and we kind of had this little extended family, you know, hang out for a few days.

Yeah. Yeah. And then he gets campsites. He loves camping. My brother. Yeah. So that was, uh, yeah, we had two campsites going, you know, we had a hotel and it was just a good time. Yeah, man.

Sounds good weather. You know, that's a good, that's a good Michigan vacation right there. It is.

There's a lot of cool places to go in the country. We have a few gems here in Michigan. I would say the UP and the West side of the state are some,.

I still have not seen any of the waterfalls up in the UP. We've been up there. Well, we used to tour up that way quite a bit, actually. So St. Marie all the way over to Ironwood and Escanaba and whatever, but never went.

I haven't seen him yet either. That's next on the list.

We were just talking about that. Yeah. My wife and I thought maybe we should just do, um, an early September trip where you're still getting those 60, 70 degree days, but maybe stuff's just starting to turn and it's just supposedly just gorgeous up there.

Oh, I'm sure. The trees, the foothills, the mountains, the waterfalls. People forget that it is the wild West. It is like God's country. Up that way. Oh yeah, man. You will go, first of all, they only have limited class A roads, which a lot of their roads are either dirt or trail.

So class a would be like paved that can take weight and trucks and cars can drive on them. You can go 70, 80 miles easily, sometimes a hundred plus miles without a gas station, without seeing a store and without any cell service.

So when my brother went up there, the guy said, Hey, do you need to fill up? He's like, I got a half tank. He's like, there's not a gas station, cell phone service or a store for another 110 miles. You probably want to, you know, and it was no, I mean, you break down, you're not calling anyone.

You're not seeing anyone. I mean, it's, it's God's country. There's bears. It's literally, they took dynamite, blew up, you know, cut down trees, blew through rock, put down a two lane road, and then that's how you get to the next little city.

But the upside of that is it's just absolutely untouched. Right. Gorgeous.

Yeah. I lived on Martha's Vineyard for a little while. Really? Went to a school up there. Yeah. There was a domestic study abroad program. Yeah. It was a music program.

It was pretty cool. Do you use Grey Poupon on your sandwiches?

Oh, we use Grey Poupon over our sandwiches and yeah, we, yeah, I mean, they kept it very, very rugged, rustic, you know, I mean, it was, it was beautiful. I loved it. I loved it up there. But yeah, no, the UP, definitely a great spot.

You can get land up there pretty cheap right now too.

Are you trying to sell me some land right now, you real estate guy, you?

For our listeners, if you want to go live off the grid, you can get about 80 acres for about a thousand, less than a thousand dollars an acre. The only problem with the real nice stuff that has like rivers and foothills and stuff in it and lakes and bears and oh, there's your spider.

He's back. Where? He's right there. Oh, he's outside. Good. Okay. You know, stay there. Some of them don't even have class A roads. So you're getting to your property either in an airplane, a helicopter, four wheeler,.

Side by side, four by four. I want the new Bronco so I can do that. Gosh. Yeah. I want the new Bronco too.

I just don't want to pay for it. Yeah. Yeah. Trying to figure out how not to pay $55 ,000.

Well, maybe Ford could sponsor the dead men walking podcast. Maybe we should call the CEO. They just fired and see what he's up to. Oh, hack it. No, he's, he's retiring. Oh, he's retiring. He's retiring.

And that's a good thing. He, he couldn't hack it. Where's, oh, where's the laughter? Oh, wait a minute. Oh man. It's too late. Dang it. Try it again. Okay. Hold on. Hold on. Yeah. Okay. Jim Hackett is retiring.

Why is that? Ford? Because he couldn't hack it. Thank you. Yeah.

Dad jokes. Oh, it's still going. Now they're just laughing at me. But that's, I heard like he wasn't doing a good job though. Right. Not to get all like, I mean, fortune 500 on this podcast.

I wouldn't think he was because our stock is worthless at the moment, but yeah.

I mean, he, he took back a, I heard he took back dividends after they were like, don't get rid of those. And then he was like, we're not going to get rid of them. And then like a year later, it's like, yeah, we'll get rid of them.

Yeah. Yeah. And people went berserk and was like, Ford has always paid dividends. Like how can you do that? Well, GE did the same thing. Oh, did they? People were going wild.

Yeah, man. Got to have those dividends. But then again, if you had, well, okay, we're getting off now, but, but if you had $2 million and you put it in a Vanguard dividend, high yield, you could make 60 grand a year from what I've been told.

60 grand a year off at $2 million. So kids out there listening, get yourself a job, save your money up and let that exponential growth, you know, happen. And absolutely. You know, let that, let that money flip over, get to 2 million, retire and don't touch it.

Yeah. That's your lesson. Then take that 60 ,000 and you know, you can even invest that in the real estate market and then call me. Yeah. Then call Greg. And we'll, we'll hook it up. And yeah. Which I've been doing a lot more investment deals right now.

People are kind of understanding.

Right now? Right now. Well, probably because of the interest rates.

Interest rates are super low. And I think people are realizing like, oh, stuff can just go sideways overnight. Yeah. I need a plan B just in case I need passive income. I need backup stuff. Yeah.

You know, it's true, but. You should always, you should always have a plan for your plan for your plan. I think that's in Proverbs. It says that. Does it? Yeah. Yeah. Proverbs. I mean, there's all kinds, all kinds.

Go ahead. I didn't mean to. I was going to say 37, 36, 36, seven. Well, Jason, there are 36 books in Proverbs. Well, I know that's part of the dad joke. I just told.

I think it's like, look at the ant, even how he works during the summer. Never stops moving. Or even like, you know, the squirrel that stores up. During the, for the winter works. There's wisdom just in that.

Throughout the entire scriptures. But anyway, so you want to get into unconditional election. Unconditional election. So I think maybe we should give some definitions. Yeah. Right. So election. First of all, probably can most easily be described as, is the act of God's sovereign will where before the creation of the world, he chooses an individual or group of people to accomplish a purpose.

So that's what election means. We have a word in front of that called unconditional election. The understanding of election has traditionally been called unconditional election. It is unconditional because it is not conditioned upon anything that God sees in us that makes us worthy of his choosing us.

Right. So in context of the term unconditional election, this election is the sovereign act of God where from before of the world, he chose those whom he would save, which is referenced in like Ephesians one, four, second Thessalonians two, 13.

This election to save is not conditioned upon any foreseen faith, like in Romans 9, 16, which says, so then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who he mercies or any unforeseen good works of any individual.

This election is based completely on God's sovereign choice, according to the kind intention of his will, Ephesians one, 111. And we'll go over some of these verses as well. God chose the elect because he decided to bestow his love upon them based solely on his sovereign grace and for his glory.

So that's kind of an overview of unconditional election, meaning he elects a people onto himself unconditionally. He's not conditioned on anything you did, I did, what he foresaw. It was totally unconditional.

Right. And I think that goes very nicely with last week's episode of total depravity, because thank God it was unconditional. Right. Because there's nothing good in any of us. No.

Yeah. And I know what I would have done if he would have done 99%, and then I had to do 1 to be saved. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, we could start in Romans nine as well. Yeah, why don't we read Romans? You want to read?

Yeah. I don't have it in front of me. Okay, I could start at verse six here. Romans nine. Romans nine, verse six. This is the ESV. Okay. But it is not as though the word of God has failed, for not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham, because they are his offspring.

But through Isaac shall your offspring be named. This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. Can I read that one again?

Sure. Nine, eight. This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. For this is what the promise said, about this time next year I will return and Sarah shall have a son.

And not only so, but also when Rebecca had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, though they were not yet born and had done nothing, either good or bad, in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works, but because of him who calls.

Read that one again. Okay. Though they were not yet born and had done nothing, either good or bad, in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works, but because of him who calls.

So have you heard the, we can pause here for a second. Sure. So have you heard the illustration of God looking through eternity and seeing that, you know, Greg was gonna do, was gonna choose Christ and he was going to do good things for Christ.

So then he said, okay, he's gonna be a part of the elect.

Therefore I'm gonna elect him because he first chose me.

Because, yeah, well, that's not true.

Yeah, that, I mean, that group of verses, which is a famous one for it to, if you'd that, it's pretty darn clear that it was unconditional. There was nothing good nor bad. He didn't look down the hallways of time and see that Esau was going to do something versus the other, you know, and that one.

It says there was no partiality. There was nothing good nor bad. He chose to what? To continue his purpose. Yeah.

Purpose of election. Right. And what would we have chosen though if he would have been looking through time? I mean, we would have not chosen him, right?

Yeah, in the foreknowledge of God argument that the idea that God has foreknowledge or he knows the future and knows what different people will pick under different circumstances and then elects people in that.

There's a couple things with that. First, it's a violation of God's statement that he does not show partiality. If God looked into the future to see who he would pick under different circumstances, then he's showing favoritism based on a foreseen good quality in them, namely the good quality that they'll, you know, choose him under different circumstances.

So we know that God doesn't show partiality. Romans 9, 9 through 11. I think I, let me see if I have it here. For this is the word of promise. At this time, I will come and Sarah shall have a son. This is what you just read.

And not only this, but there was Rebecca also. He had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac, for though the twins were not yet born, had not done anything good or bad. So exactly what you just read is kind of showing that God doesn't show partiality.

The biggest one for me too is that like the idea of foreknowledge in that sense, interpreting foreknowledge as God learning something implies that God is learning by looking into the future to see what we would believe.

And this kind of violates the doctrine of omniscience. Like if he's all-knowing, all-powerful, God can't learn anything. He's also omnipresent, so he sits outside of time. So if he's not bound by time, by saying he looks into the future, right, there is no future for God, there is no past for God.

God is all-present, which is something we don't have here in our reality. There's no such thing as present. We use the word present, but all present means is very near future or very near past, right?

Like right now, that's in the past, and we haven't gotten to the future yet. So we, you know, stuck inside of time, we can never attain present. God is present at all times. There's no past or no future.

I know it sounds a little trippy. But the fact that you would say God learned something and then looked into the corridors of time tells me that he's obviously not omniscient because he's learning something.

He's about, now you're binding him, which only a God that sits out of space, time, or matter can actually create space, time, and matter because space, time, and matter can't create itself, right? I think, is it Craig, a really nice argument on that?

William Lane Craig? William, yeah. William Lane Craig, sorry.

On kind of the space-time argument. I know Frank Turek. Are you talking about the Kalam, or the, yeah, the Kalam cosmological argument? Yeah, he's, yeah. Yeah, we could move forward to verse 12 or 13.

As it is written, going back to Romans 9, 13. As it is written, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated. What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means. For he says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.

So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God who has mercy. For the scripture says to Pharaoh, for this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.

So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. You will say to me then, why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will? But who are you, O man, to answer back to God?

Will what is molded say to its molder, why have you made me like this? Has the potter no right over the clay to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?

What if God desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory?

Wow. Yeah, those are powerful set of verses, also very famous when we're talking about, or infamous, however you wanna look at it, when talking about this subject. My favorite part of that is Paul answers the very question that people immediately ask when they say, talk about unconditional election, predestination, all those things.

You just sit down with a Christian today and you're talking about it, they just say, well, I mean, if God just elects, then how can he find fault? Like, then we shouldn't be at fault for anything. Like, literally, that's the first thing they say, and that's the first answer that Paul gives.

And the problem is, is I don't think he gives a very satisfying answer for people in the flesh. In the spirit, it's a very satisfying answer. Well, God is God, and you don't get to ask, you don't get to argue with God.

And spiritually, you're like, oh, that makes total sense. Like, I'm the created one, he's the creator. But when you're kinda letting the flesh, you know, when you're reading the Bible through almost sinful state or through the flesh, and you say, well, why am I at fault then if God predestines and elects?

And you say, well, you don't get to ask that question because God is God. Well, that offends you. Like, wait a minute, no, I do wanna, I wanna know.

Like, what, you know? Yeah, I mean, the argument that I always tend to hear is, well, then why even share the gospel? Because God already knows who is going to be, who he's calling. And it's like, well, you know, we're still.

Well, first, because he commands it. Right, we're told to share the gospel, you know?

Usually what I respond to is I ask them a question and say, well, why do you pray? God knows everything. Right. I mean, let's not even talk about election or predestination, why pray then? Yeah. And they'll say, well, you know, God commands it, it's communication, he already knows.

He already knows what you're gonna say. You believe that God is sovereign in that aspect. He's all-powerful and all-knowing, so why pray? Right. And that usually helps kind of lift the corner on trying to think differently about.

Some of it, yeah. Because we just, you know, as Christians and as humans, we just think very linearly. Like, in time, space, and like, I pray something, God responds, like, we think of God in a relationship of like how you and I have a relationship to where I say something, you respond back.

Hey, can you hand me that, reach over, hand it to, it's very, you know, call and response to where when you're dealing with an all-powerful, all-knowing, present, all-sovereign, all-holy, all-righteous, like, you can't even start to fathom, I mean, that is the mystery of God.

You can't start to fathom, you can't put him in the box of just another human that you're communicating with. Yes, he tells us to pray, we pray to him, and we have a relationship with him, and he does communicate with us, but it's not like we're communicating here with an earthly parent or friend or family member, you know?

And I've had a couple people go, I never really thought of that, why, you know, if he knows everything, why do I pray? And it's like, well, in the same way that you just kind of accepted that premise and didn't really think about it, I kind of now want you to think about the premise of if you're saying God is in control, what does that mean, right?

We've said that a few times on this, there's a lot of like Christianese, God's on the throne, God's in control, but I don't believe in the doctrines of grace. Okay, well, then what does that mean if God's in control?

And then, you know, you have guys like Bill Johnson who come out and they clarify that, and they're like, well, God's in charge, but we're in control. And then I would say, okay, well, now you're stepping into heresy, but he's at least trying to divide that for his listeners, because he's trying to figure it out.

I mean, he's a little God, that's the point.

I mean, his, yeah, his little God. That's what people don't want, you know, they don't want to allow God to be the sovereign, you know, they wanna be the one that's calling the shots. And it's like, man, that is definitely stepping into some heresy, you know, for sure.

Right, well, that's a great point. You can see how the mini God or mini Christ theology, which we're all kind of, which is, and we've talked about it before, we're all kind of mini Christ and mini gods, because, you know, even Francis Chan just came out, just a few, and basically said, because the Holy Spirit dwells in me, we're basically, we're basically the hyperstatic unit, we're half God and half man.

And it was kind of preaching this mini Christ theology. Francis Chan, can you believe it? There's a clip on. Definitely gonna look that one up. I think if you go to Biblical and Reformed on the Instagram account, Biblical and Reformed, she put a nice, you know, five or eight minute clip up there with some commentary.

But my point was, when you have that theology, it ultimately has to move into what Bill Johnson has said, in charge, but we're in control. Okay, well, now you're playing a word game. What does in charge mean?

Right? Like, if I'm babysitting a group of kids, and I'm in charge, but they're in control, well, what does that mean? If I'm in charge, that means you do what I say, right? So it's like this weird word game that they played where they're trying to define God's sovereignty with also them having their own free will and being in charge as well, and it just doesn't work.

Either God is in control or he isn't.

Either he's sovereign or he isn't. Read it in Romans nine there, where it says, why would the clay look back at the potter, you know, and say, what are you doing? I mean, it's like, it's right there in Romans nine, you know.

And I think that example, that allegory that he's using is kind of a little bit of Paul being humorous, too. He's basically calling us a lump of unformed clay. Like, essentially comparing a conscious, self-aware person with an inanimate object.

I mean, that's really how we line up to God versus us, creator versus creative. I'm not saying, you know, I'm saying, as in much as we have control over clay and it can't argue back, that's how we are in comparison to God.

Does that make sense? Yeah, so how does this go into the robot discussion that we're just a bunch of robots, you know? Right. Like people saying that, well, if God already knows what you're going to do and he's already predestined you to do all this stuff, you know, why, you know?

Sure. So you're just a robot just doing exactly what, look at me, I'm about to drop this pen. I just dropped it, but he didn't make that decision.

Right, I would say to them that I'm much more comfortable believing in an all sovereign God who has purpose for every single thing in creation than believing in a God that leaves things up to chance and there's evil acts and there's horrible things that happen with absolutely no purpose.

So you can call it a robot, you know, the robot theory. But we do have choices within our will, but our will in nature is sin nature, like we talked about. Either you're an Adam or Christ. Adam and Christ.

So people make free choices all the time within their nature. I'm just saying you don't have the power or the free will to choose Christ and to make yourself spiritually alive. But, and Dr. James White does a really nice two or three hour debate on this too, talking about how if you are a true Arminian or you believe in true free libertarian free will, then you have to admit that there are things that happen outside of the control of God, evil acts that have absolutely no purpose.

When in fact, when I read the Bible, it says that what men meant for evil God means for good. That he controls every aspect of his creation and even the worst, most heinous act can bring glory to God.

Now I'm not saying, you know, hear me, I'm not saying you do evil acts or you sin and go, oh, well then it can glorify God so I can just do whatever I want. No, I mean the Bible absolutely forbades that through the old and new testament.

What I'm saying is in his sovereignty and in his glory and in his power, he can even use evil acts to glorify himself because all glory gets pushed back to God. That's kind of a, you know, that's kind of a roundabout answer.

I guess it's not really, you know, there's no really satisfying answer with that because it is, it's a mystery. Absolutely, God holds us responsible for our actions and sovereignly ordains all things in this world.

That's a huge dichotomy that you have to, you know, try to, what's the word I'm looking for? Try to reconcile. But no one ever has ever reconciled that. Now we get off into some strange doctrinal and denominations when we do try to reconcile that.

But at the end of the day, for me personally, when I read the Bible, when I read the disciples and apostles and the prophets and I just see them and I read Job and just, they ultimately say, it's not for me to determine.

I am more than grateful, thankful to just say God is God and I am not and there are things that I will never understand about him until that day I get to meet him. Well, right here, Job 38.

Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind and said, who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge? Dress for action like a man. I will question you and you make it known to me. Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?

Tell me, if you have understanding, who determined its measurements? Surely you know. Or who stretched the line upon it? I mean, this, Job 38 will just wreck you. I mean, if you, you'll realize, I mean, when you look at the cosmos, man, it's like.

Have you ever looked through a telescope? Yeah. I mean, just seeing some, yeah, man, it's amazing. I would love to, I mean, seeing some of those pictures from NASA, I love following NASA on Instagram and just different pictures of the galaxy or whatever, just our galaxy, I don't even know.

I mean, I'm sure there's other galaxies that they can find now, but I know that there are, they do say that there are billions of galaxies, but it's just like how small we are. You know, like, I mean, on this planet, even this planet is just so small.

Oh, in comparison. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. To all of it, but God holds it all together. Oh, absolutely. And, but, you know, again, he hears us, you know, when we pray. Yeah.

You know? Well, that's the amazing thing. So you have this juxtaposition of being so small, tiny, insignificant in comparison to God, but then having him sacrifice his divinity to save us, speak to us, have a relationship with us.

You're like, how am I even? Yeah. You know, and you're so right. Like nature, you know, Psalms says it throughout Psalms, like nature reflects the glory of God. Right. And I've said it before, man, I don't feel more in tune with the Lord than when I'm reading my Bible out in nature.

And I think it really is, like Proverbs says, the fool looks at the mountain, looks at the waterfall, and says, oh, there is no God. Right, right. You know, Ecclesiastes talks about it. Like you just said, wait, what verse did you just say?

Oh, we just, yeah, we just read parts of Job 38. Thank you. Yeah. Wow, had a little. Yeah, laid the foundation of the earth. I mean.