Tim Staples the Bible Scholar

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now. It's 602 nine seven three four six zero two or toll-free across the United States. It's one eight seven seven seven five three Three three four one and now with today's topic.

Here is James white.

Phoenix Weather, Sound Clips, and the Tim Staples Commercial

Hey, good morning, welcome to the dividing line on a Tuesday morning just about to finish up the month of April and That means here in the Phoenix area. We're getting ready to batten down the hatches.

Wrap ourselves in asbestos and get ready for. Yeah, it's Well global warming man. It's. Everything should just be you know, absolutely, you know a blaze you clearly have never worn asbestos. No. It's hotter inside than it is.

Okay whatever it's gonna be hot and. But we haven't hit a hundred yet. We came close, but we haven't hit a hundred degrees yet. So we always have these contests out here in Phoenix as to predicting the first day of triple digits.

Which I don't know been pretty cool. Well, it's been the mid -90s. We've seen a hundred Degree days in the middle of March. Oh, I know. I I remember well riding in Altura.

I'm telling you the next ice age is coming. I it may be.

I remember riding an Altura to Phoenix and it was the first weekend in April and hit a hundred and four that day. So, yeah, I'm not. I ain't complaining that it hasn't hit a hundred yet. I have a bunch of sound clips.

James Swan went nuts. Sending me sound clips just sound clips and sound clips. I know some of them. I've listened to one or two some I have not. So it's sort of like we get to hear. How how you respond to stuff you haven't actually heard before?

But the first one I caught my attention. Were some Tim Staples sound clips and I've mentioned many times we have attempted to get mr Staples to do some debates over the past few years. A rather large church I would think it'd be a perfect venue.

In Santa Fe attempted to arrange a debate between myself and mr. Staples for September of this year, but he was busy and. And We just haven't been able to work anything out. He's just always very very very busy.

He must be booked like three or four years down the road, I guess. I don't know. But we keep we keep trying anyway, and so one of these was about Catholic answers view on debates now remember a couple things.

Used to be back in the night late 1980s. Catholic answers was very busily challenging people to debate. They published a tract in which they told people, you know, if you hear someone preaching against the church challenge them to debate.

We'll send a representative. We'll debate them and the yet Jerry Matic's running around and Carl Keating was doing debates and so on and so forth and the first challenges I ever received to debate were of course from Catholic answers as well and.

So it's interesting to listen to this clip about how things have changed and it's also fascinating. Yeah, listen to this first caller and and listen to the people that he links together.

You might find somewhat somewhat humorous. I used to listen to Protestant theologians such as R .C. Sproul John Eckenberg guys like John Hagee these people that have all this influence on the radio and TV and Basically, you're putting out a lot of false information and fallacious reasoning to justify, you know.

Their claims against the Catholic Church, and I'm just curious when there's when would you or have you or yourself or dr Hahn debated with these guys and how could we get that right out there, right?

Well, most of those folks that you're talking about won't debate From time to time, you know, normally we especially here at Catholic answers don't challenge folks to debates. We get challenged all the time however, I have Challenged a number of these folks to debate and most of the time you find that they don't debate at all.

But we at Catholic answers are open to it and we do debates fairly regularly in fact I have one you probably saw it saw it there Joe at the conference called Staples versus Greg a Five-day debate that I did with a Protestant apologist up in Salinas, California that went very very well very respectful Dialogue and it's available here at Catholic answers Staples versus Greg faith under fire five-day debate.

We had everything from you know Sola scriptura to the authority of the Pope to the Eucharist to Mary and more. We've got a lot accomplished there I kind of like that. You know the five days to where you can really get something done better than say a one Day format hard to do in a short about it is it really is but yeah, Joe keep your your eyes-and-ears open because I know we have debates and our producer of this radio show in fact that has some Hopeful debates in in the works right now.

So just stay in touch. Because we at Catholic answers do Debates from time to time. You've probably heard of some of our founder Carl Keating's debates. He's done some some really good ones over the years as well.

Of course, we've had a standing challenge to Carl for I don't know. It's at least a decade now I would assume. And they're working on more debates. Just just not any with yours truly for some odd strange reason.

I'm not sure really why that is but I mean, you know, I've mentioned many times Tim Staples is doing all this stuff on Mary. He's got CDs on Mary and books on Mary and we've never debated Mary with Tim Staples only debate him twice and I didn't you know, I you know, I hear him pushing the Steve Gregg debate there you know and I didn't hear him pushing our debate on papal infallibility from 2014.

I you know, I in fact, I don't think you can get that from anybody but us. Well now now what part of you know, you might say I you're just picking on poor Tim. Well, you know. Here's a commercial we're gonna play a commercial for a Catholic answers on the dividing line.

How's this? Isn't that great? We're gonna play a Catholic answers commercial for Catholic answers. There you go. We won't even charge him a dime. There we're gonna get their word out to an audience. They just they must just love that we're getting the word out to this audience.

I want you to listen to the description of Tim Staples. Now my understanding is Tim Staples is a graduate of Jimmy Swagger Bible College. And I don't know what he's done since then. I I don't know where he's gone to school.

I if he's teaching somewhere I'm not sure how he'd have time to teach anywhere. But it's possible. I mean I've been busy in a one-armed paper hanger recently and I'm I just had a class last night finishing up this semester teaching for a Golden Gate on the subject of Islam and And So I you know, maybe Tim is teaching for a Catholic school, I'm sorry, I can't stand it.

Well, it just takes a lot longer to teach Catholics. Oh. Why is that? I don't know. It just clearly is a lot more time dedication is required. That's why so I just tie it up.

I don't know. Is that. Well, what is that's why that's why it's busy. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Oh, no. No, no, he's busy cuz he's traveling everywhere. I mean if you listen to Catholic answers live.

They're constantly they used to have this commercial, you know, get help us to get rid of. That means we want to be in your parish rather than sitting around here, you know in this very expensive place to live called San Diego, but anyway, listen to the description of Tim Staples not honestly if you ever heard if you ever heard Us run a commercial like this, you know, Jimmy Akin and his people would be all over us so fast.

Let me show you what I'm talking about.

Tim Staples has done it again. He's taken some of the trickiest Catholic teachings and made them easy for anyone to understand. Catholics and non-catholics alike. Log on to Catholic comm to order the brand new audio set.

The truth about purgatory and indulgences. As you may know these two areas present some of the greatest difficulties for our non-catholic friends. Why even many Catholics fail to fully comprehend what they're all about?

That's why Tim Staples one of the church's foremost Bible scholars has tackled them for you. Now in this new audio set you'll learn what purgatory is and what it's not all backed up with plenty of scriptural evidence.

The same for indulgences another difficult to understand area of Catholic teaching. Ordered the truth about purgatory and indulgences today from Catholic answers by calling oops.

Oh it honestly it faded out before I would like to hear it myself. I need to order I need to order that in because I want to hear what one of the Catholic churches for most Bible scholars has to say. That isn't that what it said for most Bible scholars, let's let's let me see if I let me make sure I heard that even many Catholics fail to fully comprehend what they're all.

About that's why Tim Staples one of the church's foremost Bible scholars.

One of the church's foremost Bible scholars. So I would assume That that means that mr. Staples has learned Greek and Hebrew. Maybe done some teaching in those areas. Something along those lines. So, I don't know why he wouldn't be up for debating Mary now, I mean because he is By his own organization's proclamation one of the church's foremost Bible Scholars and so there there you go foremost foremost Bible scholars right there.

I Had no idea that I had been taking on someone of that's clearly far beyond for I mean at least according to Guardian and folks. Like that far beyond my range of abilities. I mean, I'm playing with the big boys I'm way out of my league in in those situations.

I must be because they they foremost Bible scholar. I Need to get on the Catholic answers website and find out, you know when Tim Graduated and we're you know where he's been teaching and what those publications are and stuff like that.

I'd like to see where all that stuff is be very very interesting. Mm. Okay continuing on with the Tim Staples quotations. Oh. Sometimes we have far too much fun on the program and you can do that when you don't have affiliates down the line.

Who get angry with you for whatever you say we can say what we want to say at least for now. Until big brother starts, you know trying to shut everything down which will happen eventually. So anyway, this next one is Tim Staples and talking about Calvinism and Do you get the feeling do you really get the feeling that any of these folks have ever read Much reformed stuff.

I mean, of course, we just had had RC Sproul and John Hagee thrown together by the previous scholars. So You know Can't really expect folks on that side of the aisle to really know the difference. But they they must especially people if you're the foremost Bible scholar one of the foremost Bible scholars in the Catholic Church.

Do you read? Calvin do you you know? Other than just little quotes. Do you read some of RC Sproul maybe? Maybe read something I've written on the subject of Calvinism I mean my name does come up on the program once in a while.

You would think it might be a good idea to read what's I certainly buy their books. See, what's so see what's up? But anyways, here's here's a discussion of a little bit of discussion of Calvinism and guess which passages end up being cited yet.

Again, I I had gotten into a discussion about apologetics with a Calvinist person and their whole thing on predestination. I guess is based on. I think it's in the Philippians.

I believe where by the way, isn't it grand that we can find all these phone calls? Where all these Catholics are running into Calvinists who are sharing their faith. I thought Calvinists didn't evangelize.

In Fact it's it's according to Bob Ross. It seems that's Calvinist the problem with the Southern Maps Convention had decreased numbers of baptisms and stuff like that. I mean, he's just got he has gone so loopy recently.

Every day I turn on my RSS reader and there's at least two sometimes three four posts against the founders and Anybody who once thought that man was even slightly reformed should recognize by now that that he's Completely lost it.

But anyways, I Thought I thought Calvinist didn't do evangelism, but all these Catholics keep running into Calvinist.

I basically, you know those he ordained he predestined right?

That's not Philippians, sir. That's Book of Romans. Yes, we might want to figure out where that's coming from. That's Romans 829. The foremost Bible scholar did know exactly talking to me about it and and.

You know the argument sounded compelling and and the only thing I could think of was Was it's not so much Aquinas but it is partially his the difference between the eternal or and the or the absolute and the ordained powers of God and.

And and God's nature in being. Don't you love how we're looking at Romans? Okay, we're looking first century. And what's the first thing that the Roman Catholic thinks of jumping to Aquinas? Which if your church history isn't all that good is not exactly first century.

In fact, not exactly first millennium. Look at that way. But that's first first place to go. Boom. Not not exegesis. Not not what the original author intended. That we know we made something up long long after that try to fit all the stuff to get the eternal where time really doesn't.

Matter for him and and I talked to somebody there's no time with him. Yeah, there is no time with him and I talked to my philosophy of religion professor and he's Lutheran. But he's very Roman Catholic and is thinking sometimes and he he told me that that you know.

You're arguing that way with them that won't make it. Like they'll still argue well, you know, you know. Even though God isn't actively choosing who gets in the heaven and stuff like that. You know, I mean it ends up becoming then that like they'll still argue well, you know his inaction causes him to be a.

Or causes him to be choosing these people to be the elect. So he's curious about predestination. You got it. All right. Here's the key.

You Touched on two of the major schools of Protestant thought here. There are the the five-point Calvinists who teach what's called double predestination, right? God, you know positively acts wills for people to go to hell and others to go to heaven.

And then you have the more Lutheran.

Understanding of why am I not utterly and completely shocked that one of the foremost Bible scholars in the Roman Catholic Church. Not one of the four but one of the foremost Bible scholars in the Catholic Church would like So many Southern Baptists and like Jimmy Swaggart and like everybody else confuse the positive gracious extension of of mercy that results in the election of people unto salvation and Reprobation which does not involve of course the extension of mercy at all in in any way shape or form.

But make the two absolutely equal to each other. Why am I not confused surprised whatsoever? You know, I mean the Armenians do that but we are talking about one of the foremost Bible scholars in the Catholic Church.

I would expect a little more accuracy because once you're one of the foremost then.

Accuracy is is very important. Passive reprobation, which which means it's not a double predestination but God chooses those who are going to go to heaven single predestination, but he then Allows the rest to drop off into hell that's called passive reprobation.

Both of those positions are incompatible with Catholic teaching and.

Incompatible with Scripture, I find it somewhat interesting that just recently Steve Ray posted about a Roman Catholic gentleman who has started posting some videos in response to me who calls himself a Thomist and who very Clearly embraces the concepts of predestination election and so on so forth.

And so you'll get this one side saying well see. You're wrong for criticizing us because you know, you can believe this and be a Catholic and then you go over here and well actually, you know those things you can't believe and be a Catholic and Rarely, do you get these folks actually together to find out?

You know just how big the Catholic tent really is that unity thing. Just you know, the more you more you dig into it the.

The less Unified it all seems to mean what we understand as Catholics as and you might want to look at the Catechism in paragraph 600 To God all moments of time are present in their immediacy. That's what you were getting at a moment ago there when therefore he establishes his eternal plan of Predestination he includes in it each person's free response to his grace.

So yes God knows. Obviously, there's nothing he does not know but within God's and and you might want to look again there at Romans 829 because within this eternal this Providence we could put up another category here the providence of God.

Under which we would have the knowledge of God the infinite knowledge of God and the predestination of God because within God's providence There are those who are predestined to heaven and they are predestined out of God's You know immeasurable infinite grace and mercy and he calls he chooses them.

Now the fact that they he chooses him doesn't mean they don't have to choose him. I've used this before in this broadcast. You know the 1984 NBA draft when Michael Jordan was chosen by the Chicago Bulls.

Right, Sam Bowie was chosen first and that was the biggest mistake in NBA history. But Jordan was chosen second by the Chicago Bulls now, he would have never chosen the Bulls. They were terrible at that time.

They were perennial losers. But the fact that we still today say that the Bulls chose Michael Jordan Doesn't mean that he didn't have to then respond and sign the contract and he could have said no and all of that sort of thing.

Wow, when you try to get around God's sovereignty, it's just sounds so bad. I mean, what was the illustration somebody was using just recently. It was just oh Oh the What Steve Gregg was using and was it a banquet or no bowling?

Well, I forget what it was He he was using that you get invited to or something. But but when all these wonderful illustrations that people try to come up with to get around the the Priority of God's action and the certainty of God's action.

They always sound really bad.

So when we talk about choosing and God's predestined planned and such it is God Who takes the initiative? It's his grace without his grace. We cannot choose him. What. So we wouldn't even think of choosing him any more than Jordan would have thought about choosing the Bulls.

All right, but the key is this what we need to understand is within that providence of God where where God knows all and predestined some. It doesn't mean that God doesn't will Everyone to be in heaven.

And this is the biggest mistake that folks made in both of those Protestant schools. It's it's almost just omitting the plain words of Scripture. Do they call over Scripture first Timothy 2 for God wills all to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

Second Peter 3 9 God is not willing that any should perish but that all Should come to repentance. And one of my favorites is Matthew chapter 23. I think it's verses 57 Right 30 right at the end of the chapter there down to about verse 62 as I recall Where Jesus himself says concerning that the Jews.

Wait a minute.

He's one of the foremost Bible scholars. I would think that he would know how many verses are in Matthew chapter 23.

But he says, you know Jerusalem Jerusalem now that kills the prophets how often I would have gathered you. As a mother gathers her hands, but you would not.

The foremost Bible scholars of the Roman Catholic Church. Cannot quote Matt's 2337 without letting the tradition get in the way. How many times have we heard I've heard Norman Geisler to that Dave Hunt do that?

It's not what it says. Go look it up. We got we lost the children again. We lost the the key thing because the main thing they want they what they expect the text to say is how often would I have? gathered you.

But you would not so that you insert this concept of man's sovereignty. And there you go. The one of the foremost Bible scholars Roman Catholic Church. Misciting Matthew 2337 in the same way Armenians do constantly.

Hmm. I wonder why that is.

Therefore thou that thy house shall be left unto thee desolate. It's not that God doesn't will as the double predestination folks teach. And those who teach the single predestination and passive Reprobation that God simply lets those go to hell.

They have no chance for heaven because God doesn't you know, give them the grace to get to heaven. No Jesus makes very plain st. Paul makes very plain st. Peter makes very plain that God actively gives grace to all.

Sufficient grace to get to heaven. We if we reject that grace will be responsible for our own damnation. Well, there you go. I.

James Swan had not told me maybe didn't even notice because it's just so common that he told me the big three were there. But not that he had miss cited Matthew 2337 as is the common Practice of so many and and it's not purposeful.

I don't believe that he was looking at that phrase and I'm not gonna say that no. It's because they think the text says something and so that's what they see. The tradition overrides the actual letters written on the page and there there you go, so Unbelievable Unbelievable, so Oh tired of tired of New Jersey's in the newest New Horizons magazine I'll have to have to try to track that down.

Whatever channel regular. It's just a little You know trivia flying past applying playing past me as we're going here. Okay, so, um, I Don't know so far I'm I'm It's it's a little bit odd that one of the the foremost Bible scholars of the the Catholic Church is Hasn't been overly accurate so far in in the Bible part so let's let's listen to some more of Tim Staples here and Of course, we can take your phone calls as well at eight seven seven seven five three three, three, four one.

And of course, you know if Tim Staples like to call in and explain I Would really really really really really like to hear Tim Staples explanation his counter exegesis of 2nd Peter 3 9 1 Tim 2 4 and Matthew 23 37.

I would be really interested if he even knows What reformed folks what many reformed folks have said concerning some of those those texts but Our phone lines are open to them. No, no, no doubt about that and our phone lines are open to Guardian as well.

I mean we want we need to sort of make sure that Guardian understands that he's loved and he's he's He's wanted and that that list. Which seemed to you know, when he first talked about seemed to be something he had in his hand, but he doesn't Never call in and provide it.

But anyways, let's let's listen to a little more of Tim Staples here.

Non-Denominationalism, the Catholic Church, and Salvation Outside Visible Bounds

Because I'm you know, and I feel that I'm a non-denominationalist as far as Christians go. How is that viewed from your guys's standpoint? Am I going to be saved in my religion if I believe that? Right.

And stand firm on the things of God in the Bible, right? Well Jason, here's the key.

We are not and the Catholic Church is not your judge. God is. So what we say is we leave the judging to God. However on the objective level we say That Jesus Christ established the Catholic Church 2 ,000 years ago.

That is a matter of history. That's a historical fact. Jesus established a church. We see that in Scripture Matthew 18 15 through 18. For example in many other verses we could look at that's historically verifiable.

And so anyone who would willfully reject the church that Jesus Christ Established will not be in heaven. All right. You will not no one me and if I reject the Catholic Church I will be lost because the church is Jesus Christ in this world.

Ephesians chapter 1 verse 22 and 23 says the church is the fullness of Jesus Christ.

If you ever wanted to hear a better reason to oppose Romanism and that's Romanism, you know people get all oh That's not nice. No, that is Romanism when you identify a particular organization That in its modern Establishment is based upon historical frauds.

It is based upon politics and all sorts of historical events that have nothing to do with Christ's establishment of his church. An Organization that in its history has persecuted and killed Christ Saints that continues to promote false doctrine about the gospel of Jesus Christ when you equate that with Jesus himself.

So that to reject the one is to reject the other that's called Romanism. That is called Turning that that's not Christianity. Christianity is a description of that which is focused upon Christ here. Something which is focused upon Rome and that's why it's called Romanism and That's what you've got here.

And this is quote-unquote evangelizing. This is how you this is how you witness to people. I Mean if a Roman Catholic called this this this program Do you think this is how I'd respond to him? If a Roman Catholic called him said hey, I'm a Roman Catholic.

You know, what do you think's gonna happen to me? What would be my response everybody in this audience even my enemies know my response would be that it would be to focus upon the gospel of Christ and one's relationship to him and What's the first thing Staples does Rome Rome Rome Rome Rome Rome Rome Rome?

That's why it is Romanism and that is a perfectly acceptable description of a religion that is based upon Rome as the Symbol the representation of.

Christ today that's Roman in this world. So if they reject you they reject me Jesus says in Luke 1016 Concerning the church and in Matthew 1040. All right, but we and now having said that that's an objective truth.

Having said that we also acknowledge that there are people who are outside the visible boundaries of the church through no fault of their own. They've been raised in these Protestant denominations and non-denominational denominations as I call them, but and various other Religions and they are honestly seeking God.

We believe there is a possibility. We don't say you're going to be saved. We simply say there is a possibility of salvation to catch.

Another reason why theology matters there. He says they're they're honestly seeking God. And that this this this is a slippery slope that leads right into their discussions of Islam. You know, they're seeking God too and all these other people and that's why Functionally so many in Roman Catholicism today are at least inclusivist if not Universalist, but I'm gonna pause it there.

We'll finish his discussion with the non-denominational denominationalist on. And also take your phone calls at eight seven seven seven five three three three four one right after this.

Gospel Presentation, Pulpit Crimes, and the Catholic Commercials

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Predestination, Providence, and the Meaning of Matthew 23:37

Let's finish up this clip and then start taking our phone calls because we got a number of them lining up here now if in fact these people.

Are in number one invincibly ignorant, which means they're not responsible for their ignorance of the fullness of the truth and They're seeking God the best way they can given the grace of God that they have been given.

They have supernatural faith and supernatural charity in their hearts. There is that possibility of salvation, but we as Catholics acknowledge that everybody needs The Catholic faith. Everyone needs the sacraments that Jesus instituted and that's why we evangelize to bring people into the fullness of faith where you can have a level of certainty of Salvation that you cannot have anywhere else.

You can hear the priest say I absolve you of your sins in the name of the Father Son Holy Spirit.

Is it it must really be rough to have to try to hold together? This this massively wide system of beliefs. Where you'll find a priest over here who's who's a rank universalist and you find a conservative over here who's who's that goes back to the Council of Trenton and I you know, I.

A part of me was tempted for about the same amount of time. The data was tempted in that one Star Trek movie. The first contact is is tempted to Just to feel sorry for Catholic apologists. How long it was it?

It was less than a quarter of a second as I recall is how long it was tempted. Which for an Android is an eternity, but anyway, I just revealed something about myself. I probably should know there huh anyway.

As if anybody didn't already know that I have a have a tricky background. But anyway It's tough to defend this system and to not chuckle in the process it really is. I mean You start off with anyone who knowingly rejects the church, but those Muslims over there Who are rejecting Christ to rejecting the deity of Christ to the cross yet?

They're worshiping God and they're part of the plan of salvation and Trying to hold this stuff together is just really really really difficult. I I can't it's it's it's a tough thing. So Anyway Let's let's start getting to some of our phone calls here or we are going to run out of time.

Let's start off with Dale back in Indiana. Hi Dale. Oh, how are you doing? Good?

Hey, I just I was thinking of listening to your Steve Gregg debate the other day. He kept talking about how that our minion is and was essentially the default view. As you read through the Bible it reminded me of a article I read by Spurgeon a while back.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with it. It was called offensive Calvinism by Spurgeon. Mm-hmm. There's a little passage in there. It says a born as all of us are by nature in Armenia. And I still believe the old things I had heard continually from the pulpit.

Did not see the grace of God. When I was coming to Christ I thought I was doing it all myself and though I thought the Lord earnestly. I had no idea if the Lord was seeking me. I Did not think the young convert is at first aware of this.

I'm just get down a little bit. He says that thought struck me. How did you come to be a Christian? I thought the Lord but how did you come to seek the Lord the truth flashed across my mind in a moment?

I should not have sought him unless there had been some previous influence of mine. I didn't make me seek him. So anyway, I kept thinking of that when I kept hearing Greg talk about how that It was that you know the default position and I believe it in a sense it is but the default position of natural man and it requires grace to and the Study of God's Word to overcome that default position if you you know, yeah, I think you're right.

I mean on on one level.

I mentioned briefly the fact that I debated a man an atheist who written a book for Prometheus books years and years ago on the Tom like a show when he was still here in Phoenix on KFYI and Here is a guy who had no religious background.

He's writing as an atheist and he goes Obvious if you just read what the Bible says God's in sovereign control of all things and blah blah blah. But the point of Spurgeon's making is that When we come into the faith, we tend to be very focused upon ourselves and it's a process of grace over time That causes us to not only become unfocused upon ourselves But to start to see the priority and sovereignty of God's grace in having brought us to himself in the first place.

I wasn't raised the Calvinist at all and it I was dumbfounded. Went to a Reformed Baptist Church on Wednesday night once and saw the word predestinated because he didn't he didn't stop at Romans 8 28.