Donald Trump vs Elites on Robert E. Lee

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Welcome to the Conversations That Matter podcast. My name is John Harris. It should surprise no one today that there's a whole kerfuffle going on.

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There's a meltdown on Twitter over Donald Trump. Donald Trump decided to talk about what happened in Virginia yesterday with the

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Robert E. Lee monument being taken down, Ralph Northam, governor of Virginia, posting about how great this is.

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And Donald Trump said some true things. And people are very angry about it, of course.

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And so I wanted to comment on this because some evangelical leaders, even someone drawing his salary from the

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Southern Baptist Convention, church goers on Sunday who give their offering, got in on this.

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And so I wanna talk about it because this is important in my mind.

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This is just another example of the denigration of American history, identity, specifically

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Virginia, local history and identity in this case. And it's replicating itself all over the place. And I wanted to just say, before I even get into it, that I was at the

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Robert E. Lee Memorial in Richmond. It's huge. Earlier this summer. It's very big. It's impressive. It's awe -inspiring, really.

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Of course, all the graffiti and everything was kind of discouraging. But you see this massive statue.

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And it really, honestly, the base is what's massive. The statue is big, but it's not like, you know, it's not like,

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I mean, the Lincoln Monument is just way off of a human scale. It's huge.

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It's godlike. The Robert E. Lee one is kind of like, this is a human who's a little, you know, set an example for us.

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So you're a little bit, I think the scale is probably larger than a man, but it's not, but the base is just, it's huge that they have this thing on.

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And I got some video of it because I knew that it would be taken down. And I knew it was, it needed to be featured in American Monument.

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The documentary Last Dance Studios is putting out. Launch date is October 31st. And I should just say, if you want to contribute to that, because we haven't raised all the money we need for it, you can go to the info section and there's a link right there to contribute to American Monument at GiveSonGo.

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Now, I've decided no matter what happens, no matter what we get, in fact, I've already been doing this, putting some of the money that even some of you who support me on Patreon have given,

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I've just been putting some of it towards that. And this is delayed somewhat because we have two other projects that we're working on.

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One's very big and the other one is smaller, but they also needed to come out. So that's the reason it's coming out in October.

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All that to say, it is coming out. And the reason, one of the big reasons for it, at least, is because we know that,

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I knew the Lee Monument was gonna be toast in Richmond, but I know that there's many other towns, small towns, small communities, where they have their monument to whoever, a soldier.

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I mean, now it's Christopher Columbus founding fathers, even Joan of Arc, some of these things are being destroyed. But whatever the case may be, there's a concerted effort and there's national and international media coming to these small towns, creating battle lines, and people have very little courage.

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And it's understandable in some ways. In fact, I know some people who weren't expecting it over a different issue, but they all of a sudden had national and international media attention and were being called all kinds of names and it really shattered them.

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It really shattered them. And I think that's something that is hard for people, especially people that already don't have a lot of courage or even if you do have some, that's a lot to stand up against.

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And Donald Trump never has seemed to have a problem standing up for what he thinks and being a man about it.

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And I see so few Republicans, I don't think I saw one other Republican say anything about this, including the guy who's running for governor of Virginia on the

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Republican side. And there's reasons for it, guys, there's reasons. Even if they feel that way, there's a cowardice there.

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To do the right thing and to stand up. And Republicans are notorious for choosing their battles by let's just let the

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Democrats have everything. And we'll take this one thing that we don't have to risk our necks so much for and try to defend that until a year later when that's even out of style.

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And we'll just retreat, it's an endless retreat. Donald Trump's not like that. And whatever you think about him, that's one thing to be grateful for.

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And it's one thing that we need more of. People who speak their mind, tell the truth, and don't care what the media says about them.

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Now, I wanna get into this because some social justice -minded, more evangelicals also got into this feeding frenzy that's happening on Twitter about Trump and this monument.

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But I wanted to just let you know how I feel about this. Before I even start, I feel like a, maybe like a fishing guide who's taking someone inexperienced.

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And have you ever gone fishing and you just, you release it too early or something but you cast your line and you got a tangle.

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And you're looking at this thing and you're like, how did I get this tangle? I was just in Alaska not too long ago on a fishing trip.

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And remember the guide told me there's days he's just untangling line because he's got people that don't know how to fish.

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Even if they do, they can get their line tangled. And so he's cutting line, he's untangling line.

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And that's gotta be frustrating. But the point of me bringing that analogy in is because Roger Scruton said something that relates to it.

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It is very easy to destroy something. It's very easy to tangle something up. Very hard to create something true and valuable.

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And that's why conservatives are very hesitant about destroying something. It's Chesterton's fence. Why do we move the fence when we don't know why it's there?

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We need to ask that question first. We need to get to the bottom of it. There's a reason traditions are the way they are.

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Maybe something needs to be changed, but let's go through a pretty stringent evaluation process here. Especially if we have nothing valuable to replace it with.

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Very easy to destroy something. Very hard to create something good. And we're seeing destruction everywhere.

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Courage is in short supply. Valor is in short supply. The things these monuments represent in short supply actually represent.

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So I've talked about this before and you can go see my videos on it. I did a whole video on why

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I disagree with monuments coming down, including ones to Confederates, which now the whole narrative on the

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Republican side seems to be, we're gonna win by saying they're all Democrats, which is one of the most short -sighted,

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I'll just say it, it's one of the most idiotic strategic moves I've ever seen in my life.

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And it is having disastrous consequences. You're just, what I'm seeing is

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Republicans now are being recruited into kind of soft wokeness. And you're giving them all the tools to just destroy the founding.

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There's no doubt about it. That's what's happening. That's not gonna work. And Donald Trump has never been one of those.

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And I thank God for that in a way. I didn't vote for Trump in 2016.

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I did the last time around. And it's because I started to realize some things. And one of them related to this, that Donald Trump does not, he's not looking at the current fashions necessarily.

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He's looking at what he believes to be true. And he doesn't always get it right. But when he does, he locks, he stands there and he says,

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I'm not moving. And it's in such short supply in the halls of power today, such short supply.

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So I'm not gonna be able to answer every question. I'm not gonna be able to dispel entire narratives that people have been immersed in for years.

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Some of you who are watching this, you're already getting defensive possibly. I'm just, some of you agree, some of you don't.

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Some of you though are, you've been immersed in education system and entertainment industry, whatever the case may be.

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And whatever you've heard about Robert E. Lee or even the South in general has just been negative. And that's been repeating itself.

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And now there's like a whole house built with the foundation and the walls and everything is kind of depending on something else.

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That's, and it's complicated. It's a complicated thing. So I know I'm not gonna be able to dispel that everything in one podcast, it's just impossible.

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But what I can do is I can start to help people ask the right questions. And I will have some resources for you at the end.

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Look, I read, I've read a number of Lee biographies. I've seen a number of Lee bios. I realized that most of the secondary sources today are bad.

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They're just bad. And yeah, I've read them. I've read Bone Kemper and William C.

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Davis and I've read Gulzo and I've read,

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I don't know, who else? I've just read a number of the modern historians that are fashioned as the

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Lee experts, the Civil War experts. And most of them are activists of some stripe.

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They are activists and they may not even see it. But most of history, since I went through a master's program in history,

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I think it's a little easier for me to spot for people that aren't initiated into that, it's surprising.

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But yeah, 99 % of historians are activists. And it affects the way they interpret. It definitely does.

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They're not trying to come up with a paradigm that makes sense of everything. They're trying to, they're ideologues. They're looking at a narrow channel of facts to evaluate and then they create their narrative from that.

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So I'm gonna give you some resources at the end for further questions about what I'm about to talk about.

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So all that is to say, I'm gonna try to start the process of untangling a line, but I don't know how far

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I'm gonna get. And I just hope that this helps some of you, at least put some things in perspective. So let's start here.

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Governor of Virginia, Ralph Northam. Finally, Virginia and Monument Avenue have moved beyond celebrating the Confederate insurrection.

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Do you think he chose that word on purpose? I do. Yeah, insurrection, just like January 6th, right?

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We can all look forward to seeing Virginia's history remembered in a way that reflects who we are in the 21st century. Now, this is a problem.

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This is going to renew every 10 years, 20 years, whatever. We need a way to remember that reflects how we think now in 2050, in 20 whatever.

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I mean, it's just gonna keep going. That we gotta reevaluate this now. We gotta reevaluate that now.

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We gotta, there's no end to this. And you don't see this happening as much in Europe or places with ancient histories.

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You certainly don't see this happening in the Middle East. You did see this during Mao Zedong's Cultural Revolution.

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This is what, this is, I'm just gonna say it. This is what communists do. This is separating a people from their past, from their identity, and it makes them more docile and it makes them more easy to control.

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And those from communist countries that are seeing this, who grew up in those countries, I've heard a number of them who have grown up in those countries say the exact same thing.

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This is a cultural genocide is the word I've also heard used that things are being renamed, local identities, local, the stability that comes with having heroes and being proud of who you are and where you're from and being able to draw inspiration from the past, that doesn't matter anymore.

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That's all gone and there's nothing to replace it with. Nothing of value, nothing comparable. NPR, Virginia officials are replacing objects from a time capsule that was stored inside the base of the

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Robert E. Lee statue. Among the new items, kente cloth worn at the 400th commemoration of 1619.

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Kente cloth, you know there were tribes who wore kente cloth who were basically slaveholding tribes. I don't know, anyway, that doesn't matter, right?

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They weren't white. An LGBTQ pride pin, yeah. An expired vial of COVID vaccine.

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Yeah, that's what's being placed now. I guess they're gonna keep the base there but take away the statue. I mean, this is just an eyesore.

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And just put, this is insane. This is insane. But people are going for it in Richmond.

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Now look, for those who haven't been to Richmond, let me just say something about Richmond. I actually bought my last vehicle in Richmond, a used vehicle.

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It was right as things were spiking in the used car business. So I'm glad I got it when I did.

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It's a Ford Ranger. So it's, was it 2006, I think, or 2007, 2006.

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But it didn't have, had like 100 ,000 miles. So good truck. Don't know why you needed to know all that.

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But anyway, my wife and I went there and we decided, oh, let's go get something to eat.

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And I drove past Monument Avenue. And I had been there before doing some of my recording and stuff. But I got to walk around Richmond.

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We walked around for a little while. And there should be a sign that you're leaving the South or something. I mean, it's become a

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Mecca for like social justice folks, at least where we were, which I guess was downtown.

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And I had, I don't wanna go off on a tangent because I'm already am. I had, there was an interesting spiritual experience too, where I saw someone and I immediately knew that person was a witch.

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There was something demonic about them. I couldn't put my finger on it. And they drove, they drove by later and I saw their bumper sticker and it had like a

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Wicca thing on it. And I was like, wow. Anyway, Richmond. There was a darkness I could feel where we were.

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Now it's different and I don't know when that changed. I don't know if it was different five years ago, 10 years ago, I don't know when that changed.

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But just know that if you think of Richmond and you're thinking like, oh, Richmond, that's in the South. Yeah, but culturally, especially that downtown area, not so much, not so much.

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People have moved in. And so I just want everyone to kind of realize that. There's still very much people who value

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Robert. In fact, the majority of Virginians are against this kind of thing. The majority are. And the

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Republicans can't even have the courage to stand up when the majority is with them. Why is that? You gotta ask that question because they're playing to these major metropolitan areas.

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And it's the influential people, the people that are in style, the fashionable people, that's who they're playing to.

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It's fashion. It's, well, the small people, the small town people that have blue collar jobs, they may vote for us, but we don't wanna be seen in the same room with them.

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And that is the attitude, guys. And I know you think maybe I'm exaggerating that, but my forte, my little venture into politics in Virginia has shown me that.

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And it's the same in New York. It's the same probably everywhere to some extent. Now, we're not gonna get into why that is and everything, but just know that this crazy stuff, this putting

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LGBT pride pin in the base of the statue is a time capsule. This doesn't reflect all of Virginia.

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It does reflect perhaps that downtown area. So this is what Donald Trump said. I'm gonna read it for you. Just watch as a massive crane took down the magnificent and very famous statue of Robert E.

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Lee on his horse in Richmond, Virginia. It has long been recognized as a beautiful piece of bronze sculpture to add insult to injury.

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Those who support this taking now plan to cut it into three pieces and throw this work of art into storage prior to its complete desecration.

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So first he's talking about there's an art element to this. It's a beautiful statue. You're destroying art and that's true.

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Robert E. Lee is considered by many generals to be the greatest strategist of them all. President Lincoln wanted him to command the

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North, in which case the war would have been over in one day. Now look, this is the way Donald Trump talks.

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Would it have been over in one day? Yeah, no, probably not. But everyone who knows

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Donald Trump, everyone who knows the way he talks, he exaggerates a little and it's not like he's lying.

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He's just saying, look, I'm trying to tell you this guy was a good general and he's absolutely right about that. Absolutely right about that.

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The people who fought him knew that and said that. I'm gonna show you some things. We'll get going.

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Robert E. Lee instead chose the other side because of his great love of Virginia. And this, by the way, is what

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Donald Trump gets and most of the Republican Party does not. This is the key to all of it. And I'm gonna read that sentence for you again and I want you to think about it.

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Robert E. Lee instead chose the other side because of his great love of Virginia. And except for Gettysburg would have won the war.

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Now Trump, would he have won the war? Maybe, if he won Gettysburg, he probably would have. The North was already, the will to fight was already waning.

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Lincoln was very unpopular, by the way, both of Lincoln's terms, very unpopular president.

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I mean, what did he get? 52 % with all the fraud even that took place his second term and the South wasn't even part of it.

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The first time he did not get a majority, there were three people running. So there was a lot of opposition to the war and Gettysburg was kind of a needed, they needed that defeat.

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The North did in order to keep the war going. Anyway, he should be remembered as perhaps the greatest unifying force after the war was over ardent in his resolve to bring the

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North and South together through many means of reconciliation and imploring his soldiers to do their duty and becoming good citizens of this country.

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Absolutely 100 % correct. That's exactly what Robert E. Lee did. He was, a lot of people offered him all kinds of things.

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His name sold. He could have, look, Harry Reader says this, Briarwood Presbyterian Church.

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He's got a great series on Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson and Booker T. Washington. That's his new one,

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George Washington Carver. The one I, he had an older one that was Lee, Jackson and Chamberlain, but it was

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Christian Manhood Illustrated. But he says, look, Robert E. Lee could have become president of the United States. And I think that's 100 % true.

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100 % true. He could have been a very wealthy man. There was a bank in New York that wanted him to come and represent them and just use, let us just use your name.

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Cause he was so popular in the North. And you know what he did?

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He went about rebuilding Virginia. That's what he did. And he didn't want the limelight.

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He just wanted to rebuild the character of the men in Virginia to help them gain skills they needed, to set a good example.

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And he told people, told his soldiers after he surrendered to go and heal up the wounds of the country.

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There's nothing inaccurate in what Donald Trump is saying here. Our culture is being destroyed and our history and heritage, both good and bad are being extinguished by the radical left and we can't let that happen.

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Another 100 % correct thing to say. If only we had

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Robert E. Lee to command our troops in Afghanistan, that disaster would have ended in a complete and total victory many years ago.

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What an embarrassment we are suffering because we don't have the genius of Robert E. Lee. Now, do you think he's, Donald Trump's actually saying, well, you know,

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Robert E. Lee with his knowledge of 19th century warfare could have come in.

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No, obviously he's saying that if you had transplanted Robert E. Lee and he was alive today with his genius, knowing about modern warfare, he would have been good.

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He would have been a good general. And this is him taking a knock at the current woke generals. Yeah, that's what he's saying.

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It's an exaggeration, but it's hyperbole. And it's a figure of speech that look, even the

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Apostle Paul uses a lot of hyperbole. There's nothing wrong with this. There's nothing inaccurate about any of this. This is all 100 % true.

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Everything he's saying here, and it's not outlandish to say any of this. Now, I'm not gonna go through all the meltdown because the internet had a crazy meltdown.

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You know, it was just the usual, Trump is white supremacist, KKK, whatever. I wanna show you though, before we continue on here, this is something that the

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US Department of the Interior National Park Service put together in 1992 called Monument Avenue, History and Architecture.

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This is what the government said in 1992. Colonel Archer Anderson gave a much admired dedicatory address at the unveiling that diplomatically skirted the moral and political import of a monument to a leader of a failed rebellion and the defense of slavery.

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Okay, so you see the PC stuff's coming in. And this is a government document from the 90s.

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So that's expected. Anderson eulogized instead Lee's character and virtues, his skill as a military strategist, his steadfastness and compassion in the face of impossible odds.

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He ended his speech with an exhortation drawn from deep within the neutral territory of the Lee cult of personality.

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Let this monument then teach to generations yet unborn these lessons of his life. Let it stand not as a record of civil strife, but as a perpetual protest against whatever is low and sordid in our public and private objects.

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You wanna know why it was dedicated? That's why it was dedicated. You wanna know why the statue sits there?

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That's why it sits there. You can also read for yourself what the statue itself says. There's nothing about white supremacy, nothing about slavery, nothing about any of that.

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You know what it's about? It's about a man who had integrity. So it's always been about. There's nothing changed, nothing was reinterpreted.

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Now that's what it was about from the beginning, authorial intent. Christians are supposed to be about authorial intent.

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And it's absurd to think it meant something else, by the way. If you think, oh, no, it was about white supremacy. Really? Because they should have been able to just say that.

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Hey, we dedicate this statue to white supremacy. Why didn't they? Well, they couldn't say that. Well, why not? I thought it was all white supremacists back then.

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So you're between a rock and a hard place if you wanna go with that narrative. Either the culture did not support white supremacy, so they couldn't say their stated motives and you're just insinuating this and assuming it and you have no evidence.

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Or, I guess the other option is that the culture was all white supremacists, but this wasn't about white supremacy.

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Those are really your two options if you wanna go that route. Either way, it's not, the statue isn't about white supremacy.

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So this is just, if you apply the kind of logic people are applying to this monument, to the Bible, you destroy authorial intent.

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You can't interpret the Bible anymore. You can't interpret anything. It's just, it's postmodern gobbledygook. And, oh, we're so wise today and our modern social location, we should, with that, interpret the past.

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The past is the past. It happened. You don't get to change it. You can try to, basically, changing people's memories about it is not actually changing the past.

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It's just lying to people in the present. Now, I wanna show you, here's a few reactions from the

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EIC, the Evangelical Industrial Complex. Duke Kwan is formerly a Presbyterian pastor.

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I'm not even sure what he's doing now, but he's, there's a lot of woke stuff he's said. He retweeted some people saying negative thing or positive things about the removal of the statue.

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He quotes Martin Luther King Jr., how long? Not long, because no lie can live forever, right?

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It was just a big lie that Lee was this great person that should be admired. Just a big lie. He, and then it goes on.

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It says, well, actually, hold on. He retweeted NBC News, Jerome Gay, interesting perspective on the monuments.

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And he quotes someone named Hillary Green. And it's just, and this

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I haven't looked into more, but it's just, hey, here are some people that were African American who were against Confederate monuments.

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And I didn't look into it. I don't know if it's accurate. I do know this. I do know at Robert E. Lee's funeral, there were a lot of black people there.

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I haven't looked into it. I'm pretty sure though, that at the dedication of the statue, there were probably a lot of black people there.

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I mean, Robert E. Lee wanted to give slaves their freedom if they fought for the Confederacy. It was late in the war when that got passed and everything, but Robert E.

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Lee was against slavery, didn't like it. Robert E. Lee manumitted his slaves. Robert E.

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Lee knew that getting rid of slavery was something that was inevitable.

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Robert E. Lee was the one who knelt down beside a black man right after the war taking communion and was quoted as saying, the ground is level at the foot of the cross.

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That's Robert E. Lee. So that's the Robert E. Lee of history though. But today there's this fascination that even evangelicals have, evangelical elites

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I should say, that if black people or a majority of black people think something today, especially, then there's no right that anyone has to challenge it.

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Now look, the majority of black people vote for Democrats. Black churches don't take stands against abortion, generally, historically black churches.

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I'm not saying they all don't, but I'm saying generally they do. They give a pass to murder. Does that mean that they're right or wrong?

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Or can we even, and you're gonna find evangelical leaders are very reluctant and they won't critique that generally.

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They wanna stay a hundred yards away from that. David Platt constantly tries to make the point, well, black

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Christians vote Democrat, white Christians vote Republican, therefore, can't we all just get along? It's acceptable for Christians either way.

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No, it's not. And we shouldn't be making our decision based on, oh, look, a majority of people who look a certain way do this thing.

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That's just, it's irrelevant, but it's relevant to the evangelical leaders and it's relevant to Jerome Gay, apparently.

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And I don't even know whether this assessment's even true or not. You have Karen Swallow Pryor. We can't rewrite history, but we can learn from it.

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I'm not even sure what her point is. She posts this article from the New York Times, which yes, is very anti -Lee.

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I guess she's in league with that somehow. I don't know who she's saying is the one that's rewriting it.

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I'm assuming she's saying it's the people who admired Lee. They're the ones rewriting history. So it's positive that this comes down.

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Anthony Bradley retweets someone who says, look, the Robert E. Lee monument, this was a

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Civil War hero, now widely seen as a symbol of racial injustice, right? This was from the Associated Press.

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And this person takes issue with it. How can you say that he's a Civil War hero?

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Basically, and Anthony Bradley is saying, yeah, you can't say he's a Civil War hero. You can't say that.

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He's always been a symbol of racial injustice. You're calling a traitor a hero. I mean, look,

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George Washington was a traitor, right? All the founding fathers who resisted England would have been traitors, right?

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All the Native Americans who resisted the federal government after the Civil War going into the native lands and doing the same thing

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Sherman did to the South to them. I guess they're all traitors, right? I mean, how do you define what a traitor is?

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But Anthony Bradley going along with it. This one takes the cake though. This is Andrew T. Walker, right?

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So I'm pretty sure, right? He's isn't the protege of Russell Moore. I think he's drawing a salary from Southern Baptist.

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So there you go, Southern Baptist. Here's a guy that's getting his money from you. At least some of it.

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I'd like to keep my Twitter feed as bipartisan as I can. So let me volunteer that Trump's statement on Robert E.

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Lee and Afghanistan was one of the nuttier things I've read in a while. Kind of incomprehensible, in fact.

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And I am recording this early in the day. So I'm sure a lot more statements like this are gonna be coming out as the day unfolds and tomorrow.

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But look, Donald Trump is a nut. He's crazy for saying the positive things about Robert E. Lee. So here's what

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I wanna do, all right? I'm getting to the meat now. I want to take all these guys.

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I wanna take Karen Swallow Pryor and Duke Quan and Anthony Bradley and Jerome Gay and Andrew T. Walker especially. And I wanna pit them a little bit against some other people including

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John MacArthur and R .C. Sproul. But let's just take a trip down memory avenue.

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Well, I don't wanna say memory now because they're all trying to give us amnesia. How about just history avenue?

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Let's just go down, take a trip. Praise for Robert E. Lee. Winfield Scott described

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Lee as the very best soldier that I ever saw on the field, general in chief in here of the Mexican War. Ulysses S.

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Grant described himself as sad and depressed when Lee surrendered and said he could not rejoice at the downfall of a foe who had fought so long and so valiantly and suffered so much for a cause.

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If his enemy could say that about him, whom he surrendered to, then why can't Donald Trump say something positive about Lee?

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Theodore Roosevelt, the world has never been better, never seen better soldiers than those who followed Lee and their leader will undoubtedly rank as without any exception, the very greatest of all, the great captains that the

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English speaking peoples have brought forth. Theodore Roosevelt. Franklin Delano Roosevelt praised

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Lee when he attended the unveiling of the statue of Lee in Dallas, Texas in 1936, which is also removed. We recognize

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Robert E. Lee as one of the greatest American Christians and one of our greatest American gentlemen. President Gerald Ford said that general

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Lee's character has been an example to succeeding generations, making the restoration of his citizenship an event in which every

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American can take pride. Dwight Eisenhower wrote that general

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Robert E. Lee was in my estimation, one of the supremely gifted men produced by our nation. He was poised and inspired leader, true to the high trust reposed in him by millions of his fellow citizens.

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He was thoughtful yet demanding of his officers and men forbearing with captured enemies, but ingenious, unrelenting and personally courageous in battle and never disheartened by a reverse or obstacle.

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Through all his many trials, he remained selfless almost to a fault and unfailing in his faith in God. Taken altogether, he was noble as a leader and as a man and unsullied as I read the pages of our history.

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From deep conviction, I simply say this, a nation of men of Lee's caliber would be unconquerable in spirit and soul.

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Indeed, to the degree that present day American youth will strive to emulate his rare qualities, including his devotion to this land, as revealed in his painstaking efforts to help heal the nation's wounds.

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Once the bitter struggle was over, we in our own time of danger in a divided world will be strengthened and our love of freedom sustained.

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Such are the reasons that I proudly display the picture of this great American on my office wall. I want you to notice something again that stood out.

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I'm gonna comment on it soon. He said, let's see, where is it? He talked about how

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Lee was devoted to his land. And this is something

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I want to focus on more and more because this is the same point Donald Trump made, his devotion to Virginia.

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I think that's the key to a lot of this. So pay attention to that. Keep your ears peeled for that, that that's one of the remarkable things about Lee and that's what we're losing.

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Winston Churchill remarked that Lee was the noblest American who had ever lived and one of the greatest commanders known to the annals of war.

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The New York Times said this, October, 1865. Not long after his surrender, he was invited to become the president, or actually this wasn't

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October, this must've been shortly after the war. But anyway, not long after his surrender, he was, oh no, you know what this is?

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This is Lee's obituary, this is when he died. Not long after his surrender, he was invited to become the president of Washington University.

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He was installed in that position. Since that time, he has devoted himself to the interests of that institution, keeping so far as possible aloof from public notice.

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And by his unobtrusive modesty and purity of life has won the respect even of those who most bitterly deplore and reprobate his course in that rebellion.

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The New York Times can praise Robert E. Lee. Why can't Donald Trump? The New York Herald, a Northern newspaper, again, praising

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Robert E. Lee. Robert E. Lee was an American. I might get, this is so long, but it's just, again, pouring praise on Robert E.

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Lee. Pouring praise on Robert E. Lee. For his Christianity, even, pouring praise on him.

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Charles Anderson, Colonel in the 93rd Ohio Infantry, an enemy of Robert E. Lee's, right? An enemy of the

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Confederacy, said this, and of all the officers or men whom I have ever knew, he came the nearest in likeness to that classical idea of Chevalier Bayard.

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And if these are modern commercial, mechanical, utilitarian ages ever did, develop a few of these type of male chivalric virtues, which we attribute solely to those ages of faith,

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Robert E. Lee was one of the highest and finest models. Another general, Erasmus Darwin Keyes.

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I doubt if Lee ever excited envy in any man. All of his accomplishments and alluring virtues appeared natural in him, and he was free from the anxiety, distrust, and awkwardness that attend a sense of inferiority, unfriendly discipline, and censure.

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John Schofield, another Union Commander of the Army of Ohio. He, meaning Lee, was the personification of dignity, justice, and kindness, and was respected and admired as the ideal of a commanding officer.

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How about Booker T. Washington? He said this, the first white people in America, certainly the first in the South to exhibit their interest in the reaching of the

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Negro and saving his soul through the medium of the Sunday school were Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson, where Robert E.

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Lee and Jackson have led in the redemption of the Negro through the Sunday school the rest of us can afford to follow.

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Booker T. Washington can say this, if the generals who fought Lee can say this, why can't Donald Trump say something positive?

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Let's get into evangelicalism a little bit, shall we? Bill Bright, founder of Campus Crusade, used

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Robert E. Lee as a positive example. Asked bankers who came to him, and Lee, he says, a devout follower of Christ, straightened up, buttoned his gray coat, and shouted, gentlemen,

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I lost my home in the war, I lost my fortune in the war, I lost everything except my name, my name is not for sale, and if you fellows don't get out of here,

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I'll break this crutch over your heads. Now, that's probably, I don't think Lee actually probably said that exactly, but that's the legend, and this is what

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Bill Bright's attributing to Lee. When a Louisiana lottery, managers of an infamous

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Louisiana lottery came and approached him about representing them. How about John MacArthur?

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John MacArthur said this in 1981, General Lee gave the command to charge, and this is about Pickett's charge.

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He says, and Pickett went, and the charge of Pickett was the great heroic charge of the Civil War, but the men fell like grass before the sickle.

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We remember their courage. We remember their devotion of duty. John MacArthur. How about R .C.

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Sproul? Enter into my home today, and it will not take long for you to see who my heroes are now.

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You can't miss the portraits of Martin Luther, Stonewall Jackson, and Robert E. Lee. R .C.

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Sproul. R .C. Sproul. So what do I recommend if you're curious about Robert E.

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Lee? I recommend, there's two things. I don't wanna overwhelm you. There's more, but I could say, but these are two that in my opinion, just really excellent.

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These are the best ones in my opinion. The first one is exhaustive, and you can get, if you get the four, there's

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I think six actually, six volume set, then that's awesome. I have the abridged version, which is one volume, but it's

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Douglas Southall Freeman's Lee. That is the best biography of Robert E.

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Lee. If you want to listen to something on Audible, and you can also buy this in print format, or I believe

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Kindle, Robert E. Lee on Leadership by H .W. Crocker III, Robert E. Lee on Leadership.

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It's short, and yeah, some people would say, oh, it's just hero worship of Lee, but it's true stories about Lee that you gain inspiration from.

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Draw inspiration from the past. Learn some of the positive things about Robert E. Lee. Obviously, all the people

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I just quoted, they're not all these Ku Klux Klan members running around. These are people, these are presidents.

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These are his enemies. Booker T. Washington, great evangelical leader some of you are still listening to today.

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Still alive, some of them. One of them, John MacArthur's still alive. What did they see in Lee?

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And what is Donald Trump, why is he wrong? Why can't he say those things?

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Now, I wanna get to the heart of what I think the issue here is. And there's several things that probably, several veins in which

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I can analyze this, but I wanna get to something that I think is very key. And it comes down to what Donald Trump said about Lee choosing to defend

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Virginia. The thing right now that is just anathema to the left, but also to, if you wanna call it the neoconservative right, you can call it that, is the idea of loyalty to your place, to your people, to your home.

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Loyalty to those things, protecting those things. You say, no, that's not true. You know, what about the mask thing?

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What about stopping the spread and all that? That is, I think people who have been paying attention for long enough, that's become a big virtue signal of people showing how good they are because they have a mask or they have a vaccine or something.

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It's not true love of people, a place, a neighbor. There's not true love there. There's judgment if you don't have it, that's all it is.

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Condemnation, much condemnation. And I'm not saying, maybe there's a few people out there who are doing it from love.

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I'm not saying that there aren't, but in general, bird's eye view here, the elites that are pushing this stuff, they're not doing it because they love people.

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In fact, if the numbers that we're starting to see now, especially from places like Israel and the UK show, yeah, this is actually the opposite.

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Stop doing this, right? Right? Both sides now have adopted an ideological way of looking at reality and justifying all actions.

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All actions must come down to equality or democracy generally. Inclusion, equities, diversity, but it's some form of equality.

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They have two competing visions of reality, what reality should look like. And the elites on both sides and both parties have maybe a little bit of a different way of looking at it, but they still want to get to this place of equality somehow that they're never really gonna reach.

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And that's how they justify their actions. Well, if it's in favor of equality somehow, if that's what it's doing, then it's a good thing.

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Robert E. Lee looked at things differently and also Donald Trump. Donald Trump also looks at things differently.

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Donald Trump is not looking at status. He's not looking at, well, hey, hold on. Is everyone equal?

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Okay, everyone's equally impoverished. Well, that's better than some people having more than others, right? Donald Trump is looking at everything and he's saying, what's the best outcome for everyone?

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And if some people are more rich, that's fine, but he's looking at condition, not status. Robert E.

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Lee looked at condition. Most people, if you look in the mind of people in the 19th century who weren't utopian egalitarians, they were looking at condition more, the quality of someone's life.

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What was best for them? Given even maybe some of the limitations they had.

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Not we gotta force everything into this mold of equality and if we break a few eggs, fine. That's where we are now.

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And that's the thing that sets Donald Trump apart. That's the thing the left can't stand about him, is loyalty to people. It's not even loyalty to principles.

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This is one of the things in 2016, one of the things that shifted my view of Donald Trump because I thought, man, this guy, he's not principled enough.

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How can I vote for him? And as I've watched, the person I did support become less and less principled over time.

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And it's good to be principled, by the way. We wanna be principled. But what I'm getting at here is ideological principle.

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I thought Donald Trump's not principled. And the person I did support was more firm in their, they had lines that they wouldn't cross,

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I thought. Now they've crossed them, some of them. And I've realized, okay, that person was, looked like they were principled in a certain, if the conditions were right for them to look principled, they'll look principled.

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But if the conditions change, they're gonna, their principles start changing. And the goal, the main goal ends up some kind of equality, some kind of state, they're trying to move everything towards some kind of semi -utopian something.

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They're trying to create something. The thing about Donald Trump is, what many took as him being not principled,

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I think was him actually just, his principle was, I want the best for people, if you wanna call it that.

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That was his principle. It wasn't taking like, all right, equality is what we're striving for.

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And we gotta make every single sacrifice. We gotta destroy everything that is preventing equality.

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And if people die, they die. If people are, lose their job, they lose their job.

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Whatever happens, we have to promote equality, right? That wasn't Donald Trump. Donald Trump didn't start with equality and then sacrifice human beings.

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He started with human beings and what would be best for them and then show me what we can do to make life as best as we possibly can.

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And his vision for what the best life is was what he grew up with. And it was nuclear families.

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It was good jobs. It was sort of a general semi -Christian, even though I'm not saying he's a

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Christian, but I'm saying the way he grew up, this general kind of semi -Christian work ethic and life, liberty, and property, right?

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Life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, property, that kind of thing. So that's not the vision today.

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That's what's basically being rejected in Donald Trump. And it's the same thing that was rejected, that's being rejected in Robert E.

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Lee. I think that's one of the reasons the left can't stand him. I think it's Christianity is another thing. They cannot stand this guy, because if you think about it, he's a hero to so many people, they could have easily tried to recruit him to even semi -BLM stuff.

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They could have tried to use Robert E. Lee's images. Like look, yeah, he fought for the Confederacy, but look at all the things

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I outlined for you earlier about him, where he's against slavery or he's for some kind of semi -integration.

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Like we can use this stuff to be like, look, Southerners who love Robert E. Lee or just Americans who love

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Robert E. Lee, look at his example, and then let's try to recruit that to our cause, even though their cause really had nothing to do with that, but they tried to fool people into thinking it did.

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They didn't do that. They had to vilify him. Why? There should be thousands of people in line before Robert E.

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Lee subject to being canceled. I mean, progressive heroes. I mean,

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FDR. Now FDR is sort of being ish canceled, but not to this extent at all.

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The hatred for FDR is not like the hatred for Robert E. Lee, even though we had the internment camp thing, you have, and maybe in a few years that'll happen.

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Maybe it'll be like, hey, look, World War II, you had a bunch of segregated, you have a segregated army, people were using racial slurs,

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Japanese in concentration camps, that's what they'll say. First ever atomic bombs dropped on a minority population by US standards, right, by US standards.

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We gotta cancel these guys. We gotta cancel FDR. Maybe that'll happen. Maybe it will, but the hatred does not even approach the hatred that people have for Robert E.

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Lee. Not even close. Woodrow Wilson, he's been canceled here and there.

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Margaret Sanger. I mean, these people, the hatred for them does not even, it's not even 1 % of the hatred they have against Robert E.

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Lee. You gotta ask yourself why. Woodrow Wilson, much more racist than Robert E. Lee. Or I don't even wanna, let me rephrase that, okay?

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Because I don't even wanna say Robert E. Lee was racist. Robert E. Lee had some of the views of his times, but Robert E.

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Lee would have been considered forward thinking by today's standards. Woodrow Wilson, scientific racist.

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Much more of a candidate for cancellation. Margaret Sanger, scientific racist. Much more of a candidate for cancellation.

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Anyway, a lot more I could say about that, but I won't, I won't.

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I just want people to chew on that. Why Robert E. Lee? Why him of all the people that should be maybe targets if you're going to apply this ideology across the board evenly, what makes him unique?

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What makes him different? And I submit to you, I think there are some things that make him stand out. I think his Christianity makes him stand out.

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I think his love for home, his devotion to his people, even after the war and his,

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I mean, away from himself and for his people, it makes him stand out quite a bit. And that's why he's still respected, even in Virginia.

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Even in the places in Virginia, the rural Piedmont, the Appalachia, that he is still respected.

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And he should be, he should be respected. He was a Christian hero too. Not just, he's more than just a

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Confederate general. He helped us win the Mexican -American War. He's the only one never get a demerit at West Point.

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He helped Washington and Lee University more than anyone. A true man of character, a true man of character.

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And if you read some of those resources I've given you, you're gonna find the same thing. I could comment on the other sources out there that disparage him.

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And there are quite a few. In fact, one of the ones I read recently, "'Clouds of Glory' by Michael Korda.

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It's decent, it's okay. It's an attempt, but you can tell, this guy's trying to detract from Robert E.

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Lee. And that's like, that's pretty much everything I've read recently on Lee is just,

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I would say go back to before 1990 and look what was written. Don't read Alan Gulzo.

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Don't read William C. Davis. You know, read the people that I just recommended.

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And see, this is more than that. This is more than that. Read the primary sources.

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That's a good historian goes and reads the primary sources. If that's what you really wanna do. Don't take my word for it.

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Don't take a secondary source's word for it. Just go read. What did they say? Who were they?

46:31

Well, that's all I got for today. I hope that was helpful to someone out there. I know this is, I'm totally,

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I'm weighing in on a political, historical, cultural matter. I'm not going through a passage of scripture.

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I did wanna say, I am planning on going through a series of verses that are taken out of context by social justice advocates.

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And we are gonna do some Bible study here on the show this year. But I'm just, this is kind of like stuff that I'm already ready to talk about, this history stuff, because I got so much on it.

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And I'm just ready to go when there's something about a related issue like this.

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But anyway, I appreciate you all listening. I hope that was helpful, like I said. And more coming tomorrow.

47:12

Tomorrow's gonna be actually a very sobering episode. And I hope you'll tune in and listen. Some of you may not be able to.

47:18

We're gonna talk about suicide a little bit though. So kind of heavy stuff, but it needs to be talked about.