WWUTT 900 Q&A Testimonies, Demons, Gifts, Dating, and Music?

The Show’s Questions and the Podcast’s Purpose

How did Becky and I both come to know the Lord? What are demons exactly? How can I know what my spiritual gift is? And why shouldn't we be singing Bethel songs in church? The answers to these questions and others when we understand the text.

This is when we understand the text, holding firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that we may give instruction in sound doctrine and rebuke those who contradict it. Find all our videos online at www .utt .com.

Here once again is Pastor Gabe. Thank you Becky.

You're welcome. So I need to issue an apology for last week. I had dogged on the Gospel Coalition for making an article, writing an article. It was Thomas Schreiner, who's one of my favorite theologians.

I've probably studied from Schreiner on Romans more than any other theologian that has written on Romans. But he wrote an article for TGC about how deacons can be women. The title of the article was, Does the Bible Support Female Deacons?

Yes. And I was frustrated that his theology, his systematic theology to make this argument didn't even include Acts 6, which is where we come to an understanding of how the deacons even got started in the church and what their function was supposed to be.

So I was upset that TGC had taken that particular turn and that the title of the article was that. It was Michelle Leslie that pointed out to me that it was actually one of a pair of articles. The other one was written by Guy Waters and the title of the article was, Does the Bible Support Female Deacons?

No. So he did the no answer and Thomas Schreiner did the yes answer. I just didn't catch that. So I apologize. I shouldn't have been so harsh on TGC for that. Nevertheless, my criticism of Thomas Schreiner's answer stands.

Why didn't he include an understanding of Acts 6 in there? Now Guy Waters did. He did explain from Acts 6 and even, I thought, very well dismantled Thomas Schreiner's arguments related to, you know, we can take this word that means deaconess or it's the feminine form of deacon, meaning servant, and it applies to a woman and so on and so forth.

And Guy pretty well dismantled that. And so I appreciate that TGC presented both sides of that. And thank you to Michelle Leslie for pointing out to me that I jumped to a conclusion too harshly on my criticism of the Gospel Coalition.

Becky's nodding. I am. Can you hear me? You can't just nod. Rattle that rattle. Sorry. I forget. I'm like, yeah. Uh-huh. This is radio, for lack of a better term. I know. I know. I'm sorry, guys. So being the Friday edition of the broadcast, we've got questions from listeners that we're responding to today and you can submit those questions to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com.

Becky, we've got a load today. We do. We're going to try to jam through it. Nine questions. But answer them thoroughly. Yes. We're going to do this quickly.

Yes. Maybe limit our rabbit trails. Right. Right. That'll be the tough part. But still give you the answer that you're looking for in the question that's being asked. We'll see how well we do. Yeah. We'll see if we can get through all nine here.

This first question comes from Sebastian. He says, hello, Pastor Gabe and Becky. Thank you for your time to read my simple question. I have been a viewer of what for a while now, but just recently got into the podcast because I kind of didn't know it existed.

Don't exactly plug it in the videos that it exists. Yeah, no. But under the description of the videos on YouTube, it does say click here for our podcast. I understand most people probably aren't reading the description.

No, I don't either. I have to say this is a great podcast. Keep up the good work. Aw, thanks. My question is actually pretty simple. What are what are your and Becky's testimonies? Is that the right English?

I'm going to assume Sebastian knows English better than I do. I personally believe that testimonies are a beautiful story that Christ has given us, even if they are not that spectacular and crazy. What matters is that Christ gave us this gift of salvation when he paid for it on the cross.

God bless you, too. Thank you once again, Sebastian. Yeah. Well, do you want to go first or you want me to go first? Um, go ahead. What are our testimonies? And he did have it grammatically correct. OK, that is the Becky's been analyzing it while I was continuing to read the email.

That's why it took me a while to answer your question. Sorry.

OK, so I'm going first. Yeah, go for it. You're actually going to find that our testimonies are pretty similar. They are. They are quite similar. I came to Christ at a very young age. I remember at the age of four praying to God and saying now it was one of those ask Jesus into my heart prayers because that was my parents at that age.

And my parents didn't push me into that. I didn't pray with my parents. I went into my bedroom by myself. I got down on my knees and folded my hands and looked up at my bedroom light because I didn't know where else to look.

But I wasn't praying to my light. You know, I didn't know where to put my eyes. I can still remember this vividly. You know, my posture and my looking up to the ceiling and everything, though I can't remember the exact words.

But I prayed to God and said, God, I want to do what you want me to do. And so I asked Jesus to come into my heart and I want to give my life to Jesus. And that was what I prayed to God. And I ran into the living room after I was done.

And I said, Mommy and Daddy, I just asked Jesus into my heart. And they made no big deal out of it at all. They were just like, oh, well, that's that's good, son. Yeah. And I'm sure it was because our four year old.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's like he's four. What is what does he know about asking Jesus into his heart? My dad actually apologized to me later in life. He said, I'm sorry, we didn't make a bigger deal out of that than we did.

That was a pretty incredible thing for a four year old to do. I was the first born, though. So it was like they're experimenting with me and then trying to figure this out with my siblings. I didn't get baptized until I was a teenager.

I'm grateful that my parents did not make the mistake of baptizing me as a child. But it was when I understood taking up my cross and following Christ, what it meant to give up my life for Jesus. Now, I was a squeaky clean young man all the way through high school.

I had some selfish tendencies. I lied, I manipulated. But as far as like my my resume went, you would have looked at my life and gone, wow, what an upstanding young man, you know, didn't smoke, drink, wasn't sleeping around with girlfriends or anything like that.

I was in fact, I was committed to remain a virgin until I was married, you know, signed the true love weights pledge and all that kind of thing. I got into college, though, and I got my heart broken pretty early in college.

And it made me just kind of give up the whole hope of this dream wedding sort of a thing that I had built up in my mind. And I started chasing after the passions of my flesh. And there was a lot of lust in there, although I can say thankfully that because of the biblical upbringing of my parents, that I did not stray into worse sins than I could have committed.

But even those biblical precepts, I was taught from a very, very young age. Some of you know, my dad taught me the Bible, how to interpret scripture using scripture. I grew up in Christian radio, so I heard those teachers all the time.

D. James Kennedy, Adrian Rogers, Chuck Swindoll, Woodrow Kroll on Back to the Bible, Erwin Lutzer on the Moody Church Hour. You know, these these were the guys that taught me. My friends are working at Pizza Hut or the grocery store, and I'm working at a Christian radio station hearing the Bible taught to me every day.

Right. And and why do I do this every day? Why am I committed to do the podcast every day? Because the teaching of these men have led me to where I am today. And I know that worked like the Lord works through that to bring me as a servant of God to teach his word to God's people.

And so, therefore, I'm going to be committed to doing this because it worked for me. You know, that's that's how the Lord reached me. J. Vernon McGee, that's another one. And of course, I came into John MacArthur and R .C. Sproul later in life as well.

And and family life today with Dennis Rainey is really how I got introduced to more reformed teachers, guys like John Piper and Votie Bauckham in particular. But anyway, when I got into college, I kind of let my values go by the wayside.

There were still some Christian friends that I had that knew me from the radio station. They still saw me as an upstanding young man. But in the dark, I was hiding some some deep secrets and some deep sins.

And eventually that turned into things that I was doing with my girlfriends that I shouldn't have been doing. And I hit a crisis point about my mid 20s. I was trying to come out of chasing those passions in my flesh.

And I ended up in a relationship that was very destructive. A girl who was actually a preacher's kid. And I had some destructive relationships even before this. But this this was the one that was that was kind of the most devastating.

And while we we actually got engaged and while we were engaged, she became an atheist and didn't understand why this relationship wasn't going to work anymore. It was devastating to me. Did I use that word already?

It was it was devastating. I was embarrassed. I felt like I couldn't face the people that we had as mutual friends. I felt like I had to get out of the town that I was living in. So I ended up working at another Christian radio station.

And it was there that the Lord really broke my heart. I started reaching out for preachers that were teaching the gospel. That's what I wanted was gospel. I grew up hearing all the five point sermons.

I could preach them better than you can. I had filled up to like almost 200 pulpits up to that time, just with the itinerant preaching that I was doing through the radio station that I worked for, like pulpit fill ministry and things like that.

So I'd preached many, many sermons and and I hated the five point, you know, your five point way to a better life, sorts of sermon, three points to a better life, hated those sermons, couldn't stand them.

I wanted gospel. I wanted to hear that I was a sinner and I needed a savior because that's what I knew I needed at that time. I need to be told that I've I have sinned before a holy God and only Christ can cleanse me.

And so the guys that I started gravitating toward were mostly reformed because that's who was preaching the gospel. And Paul Washer being one of them, I got exposed to the, you know, his incredible youth sermon or whatever.

I can't remember the name of it now. The the shocking youth sermon. That's what it was. And blew me away. And I'm going, OK, I need to find out what's wrong with this. So I started testing the sermon in every way that I tried to test it.

I'm like, he's right. It's biblical. It comes back to this, you know. And one of the things that I ended up falling in love with through that period of soaking up the gospel once again was Psalm 119, which there's a verse in Psalm 119, 109 that says, I hold my life in my hand continually, but I do not forget your law.

So even though I had taken matters into my own hands and I came into a chapter of my life where I was chasing after the passions of my flesh, God did not let me stray too far. And I know that it was by his hand that I didn't get as deep as I could have in the sin that that I was chasing after.

And I read Psalm 119 was really the chapter of the Bible that brought me back into a deep love of Christ. You hear from Andy Stanley saying things like we need to unhitch from the Old Testament. Well, it was the Old Testament that brought me back to Christ.

Psalm 119, how can a young man keep his way pure by guarding it according to your word with my whole heart? I seek you. Let me not wander from your commandments. I have stored up your word in my heart that I might not sin against you.

It was verses like this. I was like, yes, Jesus, forgive me. And and how I became more committed in this chapter of my life than I was before. And I wasn't seeking after becoming a pastor. That wasn't my desire at all.

I ended up in, to make a long story short, a chain of churches that eventually led me into the church where I met Becky. And and had I accepted the first church job that I was given, I would not have met my wife yet, yet.

And then and then when we were engaged, I got an offer again to become an associate pastor. Same offer I had received before. Didn't want it. I said no. But Becky said, no, you're going to apply for it.

And so I did. We've skipped the part, though, where while we were dating, this was even before we got engaged. While Becky and I were dating, she told me, I think you're going to be a great pastor someday.

And I rolled my eyes at her.

Oh, it was kind of dark. But the whites of his eyes just lit up the room. It was a real big eye roll. We just got done seeing a movie.

It's dark outside. I roll my eyes at her. And she even tried to like, no, no, no, no. You know, qualify what she was saying, because she could tell I was just totally he's going to dump me. I was just totally put off by this statement.

I because I heard I heard it growing up. My dad taught me the scriptures and I knew how to answer just about any theological question biblically. And so people would always say, oh, you're going to be a pastor someday.

That was the thing I heard all the way growing up. It's like if you have any sort of understanding of theology whatsoever, somehow that means you're going to be a pastor someday. I was opposed to it. I didn't want it, but it was through this woman that God softened my heart to it.

I already had a passion for the word I had for most of my life. And so I ended up taking that job. Two years later, I moved from the associate pastor position to the senior pastor spot, which is where I'm at now, still at the same church where I've been coming up on nine years.

And Becky and I have been married for about that long as well. Yeah. So that's kind of that's not really my testimony in a nutshell. That was fairly lengthy.

I think that was very lengthy. Yeah. Mine. Mine's not going to be that long. OK. Yours is not going to be that long. No, I don't normally share my testimony unless asked. And so I have not really practiced as much as you have, because I'm sure you have been asked more times than me.

You also share privately and I share very privately because I've shared these things publicly before. Yes.

It's and it's different because I've been through a lot. Most people I don't share unless they ask. And so if they have more questions or if they're if they even ask a little bit deeper, I just I go a little bit at a time because it's so much that I noticed that whenever I started sharing everything that people started backing up in a way and they're like, OK, I didn't mean for that much, you know, kind of response.

So anyway, I'll keep it short. If you have more questions, you're more than welcome to ask.

OK. OK, so I know the I know the fill in the blank portions. Yes. So, yeah. Yeah, definitely. I won't be asking any more questions.

But if you have questions. Right. Right. OK, so and it is more of a conversational thing than just me saying it all. I don't know. You can tell I'm a little nervous. OK, so I grew up Catholic. My mom did not grow up Catholic.

That was that was a lot more on your dad's side of the family.

Yeah. Yeah. And so she became a Catholic when they got married. But Dad had gone to the Catholic school growing up and everything. So he he learned a lot of the stories and things like that. But mom had noticed that as kids, we didn't me and my brother didn't know the stories.

And so she was better about sharing them occasionally and sending us to like vacation Bible schools and stuff like that every now and again at the Protestant churches. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Because they don't. Yeah, they don't do that in the Catholic church.

So so I got to learn some of the stories, but not not a lot. And I grew up as the the not quite Christer, maybe a few more in there, but pretty much just Christmas, Easter and occasionally, you know, we hit up church every now and again.

And but I went through all the process of the First Communion, the oh, goodness, my mind is blank. You know, you don't have to.

Yeah, you don't have to go run through the Catholic gamut.

I went all the way through what you were supposed to go through. And and I still didn't know much. I can't blame anyone else for that except for me. Sure. But I went to college, decided this freedom was awesome and everything kind of wayside.

And I was a very, very difficult child. So me as an adult with freedom became I'd say I was pleasant to whom I wanted to be pleasant to. And then other than that, I wanted my way. Watch out world kind of attitude.

And here I come. I don't know. I pretty much got my way, too. And so it was it just it led me to a place that was that was pretty dark and I was looking for filling in the void. I was dating one guy and I would go to church with him at a Lutheran church and his mom taught the little kids in Sunday school.

And so I was kind of a helper in there, but I didn't ever lead because I didn't know anything. But I learned that, I mean, Samson's in the Bible. What? Who's Samson? What happened? And she's like, you don't know any of these.

I'm like, no, sorry. And so it was very humbling. And then they they said a prayer where in every every day or every time we had church, they said the prayer of I'm not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed.

And that that hit me. I'm like, why am I not worthy? I'm worthy. And that was like the real struggle that started within about I'm a good person. I'm a good person. I mean, people like me. Why? Why would God not like me?

Yeah. So so that really started to hit home. And I just you know, and then you get uncomfortable with it and you kind of put it off to the side again. So that's that's where it started. And it started festering.

And I'm I'm like, I need to understand this a little bit better, but I never went and investigated. I mean, I did go talk to the pastor there a few times and he was really, really gracious about walking me through the Bible and stuff.

And he's the one that taught me that that that there are different versions of the Bible. So I was reading like the most difficult version possible. Translation. Translation. Yeah. Yes. And so I needed to get an easier one to be able to read it and understand.

I'm like, what does all of this mean? And he's like, they walked. And I'm like, oh, why didn't it just say they walked?

You know, like, gird up your loins.

What is that? What on earth? How am I going to do that? So, OK, so then I came. I put that to the wayside and then I kept trudging through because I wanted to make myself happy because I deserve to be happy.

And the more I tried to make myself happy, the worse things got. And I found myself in a very difficult situation where I was pregnant out of wedlock. I moved back in with my folks and we were going to church and.

I'm losing it. I'm getting teary eyed, teary eyed is coming up here, so it's not going to get it's not going to get pretty. So I know that when I know that when you move back home with your parents to help you collect yourself a little bit, you move back home with your parents.

You were pregnant. You were broken. Your mom told me later that you would just sit in a chair and just watch TV, not really interact with anyone. I'm not helping Becky at all here. You had a beautiful baby girl who is our oldest, Annie, who is my child.

She is in my custody and she belongs to me.

Yes. So legally and everything.

Yeah. And it was your sister in law that helped you when you were giving birth in the hospital. I know that she was with you there and and I held and my mom, too. Yeah. So the so the neat thing about this story, when I was working at a Christian radio station, we would have prayer, I think Monday morning.

I can't remember what day of the week it was. We would do we would do prayer every Monday morning for the requests that we would receive at the radio station. And there was this young woman whom we were praying for who had gotten pregnant out of wedlock, had a baby.

And but she was in a custody battle now for the for the what do you say? The rights to that is that the term is custody. Custody rights. Yeah. And so we were praying for because the father was not fit for taking care of this child.

And I mean, yeah, a whole lot of interesting things going on with that. I did not realize that I'm praying for my future wife and my future child. That's what I was praying for. And at the Christian radio station that I work for.

So a few months went by. I guess Annie was about eight months old or something like that. First time I held her. Yeah. And it was when the church plant here in Junction City was meeting for the first time.

And you know where we're going to gather, where our location is going to be. And through that, I met Becky.

And well, I met you first. Yes. Right. But this is a story about how we met. Not my testimony.

Sure. OK, yeah. So I was. I was just kind of filling in some blanks while you're collecting yourself.

So you want to pick up from there? Sure. OK, so I got sound, went to Bible studies and through the whole broken process, I was able to put both feet on the ground only by the grace of God. It was just amazing how the Lord just put all the pieces together.

And you can look back and it just it's astounding. How it just makes sense now, whereas before you're trying to understand, but it doesn't you don't get it, you know, and but you want to. And so it finally it finally clicked and God revealed it.

And it was just amazing, the gospel and everything and how I'm just a terrible sinner and didn't deserve any any help whatsoever.

And yet here he is saving me. All these things you didn't know growing up as a Catholic and now the truth is coming out. This was in a Wesleyan church, by the way. Right. Yeah. That all this all this came about for you.

Right. So then we we planted the Wesleyan church in Junction City. In Junction City. Which doesn't exist anymore. With my folks. Unfortunately.

Yeah. Right. Your dad's still a Wesleyan minister, though.

He is. Yes. And so we it was a little closer to home. And so it made travel a lot nicer, too, because we were we were traveling quite a bit about four or five days a week. Yeah. And with a little infant that that makes it a little a little bit of.

Challenge. How long before you and I met, was it that you got baptized?

Annie was in a car seat still because she was over on the side of the pool.

One of my one of my earliest memories of you was that summer.

So she had to be about four or five months old.

Oh, OK. Yeah. So that was yeah, that was before we met, before I held her for the first time, because that was in October. I still remember when that was. It was rainy outside. I remember all that, too.

Yeah, because we were at the old mass church used to be we were at a church event.

And they're like, so you want to get baptized? And I'm like, I was already baptized as a baby. And they're like, well, you know, they didn't know how to explain it to me. And I'm like, well, they're like, well, now you you know, Christ.

I'm like, I knew Christ all along because I was still a baby in the faith. So in my mind, I had just learned more about Christ. Yeah. And now that I'm more mature, I understand the difference between the two.

But back then it was, you know, what I already knew. And I just anyway. So they convinced me that it was a good idea to get baptized again, because I.

Remember, like I said, one of my earliest memories of you was the picture of you getting being given your baptism certificate. OK, you remember that? No. OK, so your dad's handing you your baptism certificate.

Right. And you're standing there in the picture.

You're just like, you guys can't see this. No. Your lips are pursed. Your eyes looking off to the side. Yeah. You're just like, I was so embarrassed. Your dad was so proud. I know he was. And that's why I did it, because he he was able to baptize me.

But but now I get it. And I am glad that I did. At the time, I was very embarrassed, though. I didn't want to in front of everybody. I'm like, can't we just do it privately? And they're like, that defeats the whole purpose.

That's right. This is your profession before believers.

So anyway, so and then I met Gabe and the rest is still being made. Still being written. That's right. Still being written into history.

Now we've got four kids. Yes. Annie, who, again, is my daughter. Then Zachary was born just not quite a year after we got married. We were married August 1st. He was born the following June, the first day of summer.

And yes, the and then we've got Aria, who is four, at least at the time of this recording, Mariah, who is two, just now turned two. And our family is the Lord is still writing our story. Yes. So hoping to see Annie in maybe the near future, make a decision to want to be baptized as well.

She's very, very sharp, very smart on. And she's also shown signs of guilt because of sin and a desire to want to follow God. And anyway, be praying for them. Yes. Thank you.

And sorry, that ended up being pretty long.

We're halfway into the episode now. Yeah. So if we're going to answer the next eight questions that way. Well, that was a simple question. This could go a little bit longer. But thank you, Sebastian. I don't think we've ever shared that on the broadcast before.

So that was my first time. There's our testimonies.

But all glory be to God. He is the one who protected me and brought me into his kingdom through faith in Jesus Christ. Same is true for Becky as well. So, yeah, when we started sharing those testimonies, I said our testimonies are pretty similar.

Well, everybody's testimony is the same. Yes. In the sense that it is God who saves. Oh, yeah. And it is God who keeps us saved. So we go on now to the next question from Linda. Hi, Pastor Gabe and Becky, too.

My husband and I have enjoyed listening to your podcast for several years now. Wow, that's hard to. I don't ever really think about that. We've been doing this for several years now. We have, haven't we?

That's awesome. Started in 2015. Hey, no rapid trails. Oh, yes. Right. Okay. I listen every day on my way to work. It's the perfect time length for my drive. Not to mention that it's my favorite podcast.

I also especially enjoy when Becky is on with you on Fridays. I know I get that a lot. Like we don't like the Friday podcast when Becky's not on there. She adds a delightful personal touch to the show.

Thank you for sharing your lives with us. And thank you so much for your ministry. I have a couple of things to ask about. First, I would like to ask for show notes on the Ordo Salutis that you discussed on Monday, February the 18th.

That's the Order of Salvation. Okay. I gave a 10-step Order of Salvation. I love the Golden Chain reference, but I really appreciated getting a fuller explanation of all the steps involved. Do you have show notes and or references that you can share of where you took your material from?

You can go back to that episode to listen to the Order of Salvation. I'm going to go ahead and email the list to Linda. Okay. So there's the answer to that first question. Next, as I opened up your website to find your email, I saw the short on the Bible whispers about sexual sin.

That was a statement that was made by J .D. Greer. I have heard the discussion about J .D. Greer's sermon on your podcast, Todd Friel's Wretched podcast and James White's podcast. Anyway, what struck me just now that I had not noticed before was the text under your video indicating that J .D. Greer was quoting Jen Wilkin.

Oh, no. Now, do I have to be careful about Jen Wilkin? I have one of her books and was planning on getting another one or two. I thought she was reformed, quote unquote, approved as a safe women's ministry author.

Can you please shed some light on this? Where did this quote of Jen Wilkin come from? Again, thank you for your ministry to all of us. May the Lord continue to bless you, your family, your church, and your ministry through WWUTT.

Blessings, Linda. I do not know where that quote from Jen Wilkin came from. I referenced it in the transcript of the video because J .D. Greer started that explanation on sexual sin by saying, according to Jen Wilkin.

So I made sure to attribute what he was saying as a quote from her. I wasn't really doing that to try to discredit Jen Wilkin. I was just making sure that the source was well covered in the material that was being presented.

So I don't know exactly where that quote came from, nor do I even know if the quote as J .D. Greer used it was in the same context that he was using it. Was Jen Wilkin talking about sexual sin? I don't have any idea.

Should you be concerned about Jen Wilkin? Yes. And the reason why you should be concerned is because she comes from Matt Chandler's church. And Chandler has been on a steady decline over the last few years, and it's very unfortunate.

But Wilkin is kind of going right along with that. There was at one point, Becky and I were also huge Jen Wilkin fans. We led a study, or Becky led a study. I did. A women's study at our church using her Sermon on the Mount series, which was still a great series.

I think you guys also read through. How to Study Your Bible. Yeah, Women of the Word. Yeah. Yep. That was a book that we distributed at our church. But since the village church has been going in the direction that it's been going, and it's falling into like some political liberalism.

There's some deep concerns there. Wilkin, likewise, has started to go that way. Now, I don't think listening to Jen Wilkin is means that it's not the same as listening to Beth Moore. Right. I think the two are still worlds apart, but she's starting to chum with that group of women.

And so you need to be concerned about.

Be discerning about which work you are. Like if it's her earlier work versus. Yeah, some more recent things.

Something like that. I would encourage you. I've already mentioned Michelle Leslie for a correction that she issued to me. She's on top of it. That's right. So visit her website. Do you remember right off hand what it is?

MichelleLeslie .com. No, it's like MichelleLeslieWrites. No, you're right. MichelleLeslie .com. I was thinking it was MichelleLeslieWrites or MichelleLeslieBlog. No, it's just MichelleLeslie .com. Anyway, Discipleship for Christian Women.

That is the name of her blog. So if you go to check out that website and search for Jen Wilkin, she would be able to give you better background into some of the concerns related to Jen Wilkin that I'm able to give.

And Michelle Leslie is also on Twitter and Facebook in case you wanted to keep updated on her discernments.

Yes, always post great stuff. Thank you, Michelle. Next question comes from Raymond in Chicago. Hi, Pastor Gabe. In today's program, this was back on Monday. You said that demons are the angels that followed Satan.

Where does scripture say this or make that comparison? Dr. Michael Heiser believes that demons are the spirits of the dead Nephilim and makes a pretty good argument for it. Can you give your thoughts on this?