WWUTT 900 Q&A Testimonies, Demons, Gifts, Dating, and Music?

How did Becky and I both come to know the Lord? What are demons exactly? How can

I know what my spiritual gift is? And why shouldn't we be singing Bethel songs in church?

The answers to these questions and others when we understand the text. This is

When We Understand The Text, holding firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that we may give instruction in sound doctrine and rebuke those who contradict it.

Find all our videos online at www .tt .com. Here once again is

Pastor Gabe. Thank you, Becky. You're welcome. So I need to issue an apology for last week.

I had dogged on the Gospel Coalition for making an article, writing an article.

It was Thomas Schreiner, who's one of my favorite theologians. I've probably studied from Schreiner on Romans more than any other theologian that has written on Romans.

But he wrote an article for TGC about how deacons can be women. The title of the article was,

Does the Bible Support Female Deacons? Yes. And I was frustrated that his theology, his systematic theology to make this argument, didn't even include

Acts 6, which is where we come to an understanding of how the deacons even got started in the church and what their function was supposed to be.

So I was upset that TGC had taken that particular turn and that the title of the article was that.

It was Michelle Leslie that pointed out to me that it was actually one of a pair of articles.

The other one was written by Guy Waters, and the title of the article was, Does the Bible Support Female Deacons?

No. No. So he did the no answer, and Thomas Schreiner did the yes answer.

Okay. I just didn't catch that. Okay. So I apologize. I shouldn't have been so harsh on TGC for that.

Nevertheless, my criticism of Thomas Schreiner's answer stands. Yes. Why didn't he include an understanding of Acts 6 in there?

Now Guy Waters did. Okay. He did explain from Acts 6, and even I thought very well dismantled

Thomas Schreiner's arguments related to, you know, we can take this word that means deaconess, or it's the feminine form of deacon, meaning servant, and it applies to a woman, and so on and so forth.

And Guy pretty well dismantled that. Okay. And so I appreciate that TGC presented both sides of that.

Gotcha. And thank you to Michelle Leslie for pointing out to me that I jumped to a conclusion too harshly on my criticism of the

Gospel Coalition. Becky's nodding. I am. Can you hear me? You can't just nod.

Rattle, rattle, rattle. Sorry. I forget. I'm like, yeah.

Uh -huh. This is radio, for lack of a better term. I know. I know. I'm sorry, guys.

So, being the Friday edition of the broadcast, we've got questions from listeners that we're responding to today, and you can submit those questions to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com.

Becky, we've got a load today. We do. We're going to try to jam through it. Nine questions.

But answer them thoroughly. Yes. We're going to do this quickly. Yes. Maybe limit our rabbit trails.

Right. Right. That'll be the tough part. But still give you the answer that you're looking for in the question that's being asked.

We'll see how well we do. Yeah. We'll see if we can get through all nine here. This first question comes from Sebastian.

He says, hello, Pastor Gabe and Becky. Thank you for your time to read my simple question.

I have been a viewer of what for a while now, but just recently got into the podcast because I kind of didn't know it existed.

Don't exactly plug it in the videos that it exists. Yeah, no. But under the description of the videos on YouTube, it does say, click here for our podcast.

Ah. I understand most people probably aren't reading the description. Nope. I don't either. I have to say, this is a great podcast.

Keep up the good work. Aw, thanks. My question is actually pretty simple. What are your and Becky's testimonies?

Is that the right English? I'm going to assume Sebastian knows English better than I do. I personally believe that testimonies are a beautiful story that Christ has given us, even if they are not that spectacular and crazy.

What matters is that Christ gave us this gift of salvation when he paid for it on the cross. God bless you two.

Thank you once again, Sebastian. Well, do you want to go first or you want me to go first?

Um, go ahead. What are our testimonies? And he did have it grammatically correct. Okay, that is the,

Becky's been analyzing it while I was continuing to read the email. That's why it took me a while to answer your question.

Sorry. Okay, so I'm going first. Yeah, go for it. You're actually going to find that our testimonies are pretty similar.

They are. They are quite similar. I came to Christ at a very young age. I remember at the age of four, praying to God and saying, now it was one of those ask

Jesus into my heart prayers because that was my parents at that age. And my parents didn't push me into that.

I didn't pray with my parents. I went into my bedroom by myself. I got down on my knees and folded my hands and looked up at my bedroom light because I didn't know where else to look.

But I wasn't praying to my light, you know, I didn't know where to put my eyes. I can still remember this vividly, you know, my posture and my looking up at the ceiling and everything, though I can't remember the exact words.

But I prayed to God and said, God, I want to do what you want me to do. And so I asked

Jesus to come into my heart and I want to give my life to Jesus. And that was what I prayed to God. And I ran into the living room after I was done.

And I said, Mommy and Daddy, I just asked Jesus into my heart. And they made no big deal out of it at all.

They were just like, oh, well, that's that's good, son. Yeah. And I'm sure it was because our four year old, you know, it's like he's four.

What is what does he know about asking Jesus into his heart? My dad actually apologized to me later in life.

He said, I'm sorry we didn't make a bigger deal out of that than we did. That was a pretty incredible thing for a four year old to do.

I was the first born, though. So it was like they're experimenting with me and then trying to figure this out with my siblings.

I didn't get baptized until I was a teenager. I'm grateful that my parents did not make the mistake of baptizing me as a child.

But it was when I understood taking up my cross and following Christ, what it meant to give up my life for Jesus.

Now, I was a squeaky clean young man all the way through high school. I had some selfish tendencies.

I lied, I manipulated. But as far as like my my resume went, you would have looked at my life and gone, wow, what an upstanding young man, you know, didn't smoke, drink, wasn't sleeping around with girlfriends or anything like that.

I was, in fact, I was committed to remain a virgin until I was married, you know, signed the true love weights pledge and all that kind of thing.

I got into college, though, and I got my heart broken pretty early in college. And it made me just kind of give up the whole hope of this dream wedding sort of a thing that I had built up in my mind.

And I started chasing after the passions of my flesh. And there was a lot of lust in there.

Although I can say, thankfully, that because of the biblical upbringing of my parents, that I did not stray into worse sins than I could have committed.

But even those biblical precepts, I was taught from a very, very young age. Some of you know, my dad taught me the

Bible, how to interpret scripture using scripture. I grew up in Christian radio, so I heard those teachers all the time.

D. James Kennedy, Adrian Rogers, Chuck Swindoll, Woodrow Kroll on Back to the

Bible, Erwin Lutzer on the Moody Church Hour. These were the guys that taught me. My friends are working at Pizza Hut or the grocery store, and I'm working at a

Christian radio station hearing the Bible taught to me every day. And why do

I do this every day? Why am I committed to do the podcast every day? Because the teaching of these men have led me to where I am today.

And I know that worked, like the Lord worked through that to bring me as a servant of God to teach his word to God's people.

And so therefore, I'm going to be committed to doing this because it worked for me. That's how the

Lord reached me. J. Vernon McGee, that's another one. And of course, I came into John MacArthur and R .C.

Sproul later in life as well. And Family Life Today with Dennis Rainey is really how

I got introduced to more reformed teachers, guys like John Piper and Votie Bauckham in particular.

But anyway, when I got into college, I kind of let my values go by the wayside.

There were still some Christian friends that I had that knew me from the radio station. They still saw me as an upstanding young man.

But in the dark, I was hiding some deep secrets and some deep sins.

And eventually that turned into things that I was doing with my girlfriends that I shouldn't have been doing. And I hit a crisis point about my mid -twenties.

I was trying to come out of chasing those passions of my flesh. And I ended up in a relationship that was very destructive.

A girl who was actually a preacher's kid. And I had some destructive relationships even before this.

But this was the one that was kind of the most devastating. And while we actually got engaged, and while we were engaged, she became an atheist and didn't understand why this relationship wasn't going to work anymore.

It was devastating to me. Did I use that word already? It was devastating. I was embarrassed. I felt like I couldn't face the people that we had as mutual friends.

I felt like I had to get out of the town that I was living in. So I ended up working at another Christian radio station.

And it was there that the Lord really broke my heart. I started reaching out for preachers that were teaching the gospel.

That's what I wanted was gospel. I grew up hearing all the five -point sermons. I could preach them better than you can.

I had filled up to almost 200 pulpits up to that time, just with the itinerant preaching that I was doing through the radio station that I worked for, like pulpit -fill ministry and things like that.

So I'd preached many, many sermons. And I hated the five -point, you know, your five -point way to a better life sorts of sermons, or three points to a better life.

Hated those sermons. Couldn't stand them. I wanted gospel. I wanted to hear that I was a sinner and I needed a

Savior, because that's what I knew I needed at that time. I needed to be told that I have sinned before a holy

God and only Christ can cleanse me. And so the guys that I started gravitating toward were mostly

Reformed, because that's who was preaching the gospel. And Paul Washer being one of them, I got exposed to the, you know, his incredible youth sermon or whatever,

I can't remember the name of it now, the shocking youth sermon. That's what it was. Okay, yeah. And blew me away.

And I'm going, okay, I need to find out what's wrong with this. So I started testing the sermon and every way that I tried to test it,

I'm like, he's right. It's biblical. It comes back to this, you know. And one of the things that I ended up falling in love with through that period of soaking up the gospel once again was

Psalm 119, which there's a verse in Psalm 119, 109, that says,

I hold my life in my hand continually, but I do not forget your law. So even though I had taken matters into my own hands and I came into a chapter of my life where I was chasing after the passions of my flesh,

God did not let me stray too far. And I know that it was by his hand that I didn't get as deep as I could have in the sin that I was chasing after.

And I read, Psalm 119 was really the chapter of the Bible that brought me back into a deep love of Christ.

You hear from Andy Stanley saying things like we need to unhitch from the Old Testament. Well, it was the Old Testament that brought me back to Christ.

Psalm 119, how can a young man keep his way pure? By guarding it according to your word.

With my whole heart, I seek you. Let me not wander from your commandments.

I have stored up your word in my heart that I might not sin against you. It was verses like this.

I was like, yes, Jesus, forgive me. And how I became more committed in this chapter of my life than I was before.

And I wasn't seeking after becoming a pastor. That wasn't my desire at all.

I ended up in, to make a long story short, a chain of churches that eventually led me into the church where I met

Becky. And had I accepted the first church job that I was given,

I would not have met my wife. Yet. Yet. And then when we were engaged,

I got an offer again to become an associate pastor. Same offer I had received before. Didn't want it.

I said no. But Becky said, no, you're going to apply for it. And so I did. We've skipped the part though where while we were dating, this was even before we got engaged.

While Becky and I were dating, she told me, I think you're going to be a great pastor someday. And I rolled my eyes at her.

Oh, it was kind of dark, but the whites of his eyes just lit up the room. It was a real big eye roll.

We just got done seeing a movie. It's dark outside. I roll my eyes at her. And she even tried to like, no, no, no, no, you know, qualify what she was saying because she could tell

I was just totally. He's going to dump me. I was just totally put off by this statement because I heard it growing up.

You know, my dad taught me the scriptures and I knew how to answer just about any theological question biblically.

And so people would always say, oh, you're going to be a pastor someday. That was the thing I heard all the way growing up.

It's like if you have any sort of understanding of theology whatsoever, somehow that means you're going to be a pastor someday.

I was opposed to it. I didn't want it. But it was through this woman that God softened my heart to it.

I already had a passion for the word I had for most of my life. And so I ended up taking that job.

Two years later, I moved from the associate pastor position to the senior pastor spot, which is where I'm at now, still at the same church where I've been coming up on nine years.

And Becky and I have been married for about that long as well. So that's kind of that's not really my testimony in a nutshell.

That was fairly lengthy, I think. That was very lengthy. Yeah. Mine's not going to be that long. Okay. Yours is not going to be that long.

No. I don't normally share my testimony unless asked.

And so I have not really practiced as much as you have, because I'm sure you have been asked more times than me.

You also share privately. I share very privately. I've shared these things publicly before. Yes.

And it's different because I've been through a lot. Most people, I don't share unless they ask.

And so if they have more questions or if they even ask a little bit deeper,

I go a little bit at a time. Because it's so much that I noticed that whenever I started sharing everything that people started backing up in a way and they're like, okay,

I didn't mean for that much, you know, kind of response. So anyway, I'll keep it short. If you have more questions, you're more than welcome to ask though.

Okay. Okay. So. I know the fill in the blank portions. Yes. So yeah.

Yeah, definitely. I won't be asking any more questions. But if you have questions. Right. Right. Right.

Okay. So and it is more of a conversational thing than just me saying it all out.

You can tell I'm a little nervous. Okay. So I grew up Catholic. My mom did not grow up Catholic.

That was that was a lot more on your dad's side of the family. Yeah. Yeah. And so she became a Catholic when they got married.

But dad had gone to the Catholic school growing up and everything. So he learned a lot of the stories and things like that.

But mom had noticed that as kids, we didn't, me and my brother didn't know the stories. And so she was better about sharing them occasionally and sending us to like, vacation

Bible schools and stuff like that every now and again. At the Protestant churches. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Because they don't. Yeah, they don't do that in the Catholic Church. So I got to learn some of the stories, but not a lot.

And I grew up as the not quite Christer, maybe a few more in there, but pretty much just Christmas, Easter, and occasionally, you know, we'd hit up church every now and again.

But I went through all the process of the First Communion, the oh, goodness, my mind is blanking.

You don't have to go run through the Catholic gamut. I went all the way through what you were supposed to go through.

And I still didn't know much. I can't blame anyone else for that except for me.

But I went to college, decided this freedom was awesome. And everything kind of went wayside.

And I was a very, very difficult child. So me as an adult with freedom became,

I'd say it was pleasant to whom I wanted to be pleasant to. And then other than that,

I wanted my way, watch out world kind of attitude. And here I come.

I don't know. I pretty much got my way too. And so it led me to a place that was pretty dark.

And I was looking for filling in the void. I was dating one guy, and I would go to church with him at a

Lutheran church. And his mom taught the little kids in Sunday school.

And so I was kind of a helper in there, but I didn't ever lead because I didn't know anything. But I learned that,

I mean, Samson's in the Bible. What? Who's Samson? What happened? And she's like, you don't know any of these?

I'm like, no, none, sorry. And so it was very humbling. And then they said a prayer where every day or every time we had church, they said the prayer of I'm not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed.

And that hit me. I'm like, why am I not worthy? I'm worthy. And that was like the real struggle that started within about...

I'm a good person. I'm a good person. Yeah. I mean, people like me. Why would

God not like me? Yeah. So that really started to hit home.

And then you get uncomfortable with it, and you kind of put it off to the side again. So that's where it started, and it started festering.

And I'm like, I need to understand this a little bit better, but I never went and investigated. I mean,

I did go talk to the pastor there a few times, and he was really, really gracious about walking me through the

Bible and stuff. And he's the one that taught me that there are different versions of the Bible. So I was reading like the most difficult version possible.

Translation. Translation. Yeah. Yes. And so I needed to get an easier one to be able to read it and understand.

I'm like, what does all of this mean? And he's like, they walked. And I'm like, oh, why didn't it just say they walked?

You know? Girt up your loins. What is that? What on earth?

How am I going to do that? So okay. So then I came, I put that to the wayside.

And then I kept trudging through, because I wanted to make myself happy, because I deserve to be happy.

And the more I tried to make myself happy, the worse things got.

And I found myself in a very difficult situation where I was pregnant, out of wedlock.

I moved back in with my folks, and we were going to church. And I'm losing it.

I'm getting teary -eyed. Teary -eyed is coming up here. It's not going to get pretty.

So I know that when you moved back home with your parents, to help you collect yourself a little bit, you moved back home with your parents, you were pregnant, you were broken.

Your mom told me later that you would just sit in a chair and just watch TV, not really interact with anyone.

I'm not helping Becky at all. You had a beautiful baby girl who is our oldest,

Annie, who is my child. She is in my custody, and she belongs to me.

Legally and everything. Yeah. And it was your sister -in -law that helped you when you were giving birth in the hospital.

I know that she was with you there. And I held - And my mom, too. Yeah. Both of them.

So the neat thing about this story, when I was working at a Christian radio station, we would have prayer,

I think Monday morning. I can't remember what day of the week it was. We would do prayer every Monday morning for the request that we would receive at the radio station.

And there was this young woman whom we were praying for, who had gotten pregnant out of wedlock, had a baby, but she was in a custody battle now for the, what do you say, the rights to that child?

Is that the term you use? Custody. Custody rights. Yeah. And so we were praying for her because the father was not fit for taking care of this child.

And I mean, yeah, a whole lot of interesting things going on with that. I did not realize that I'm praying for my future wife and my future child.

That's what I was praying for at the Christian radio station that I worked for. So a few months went by.

I guess Annie was about eight months old or something like that. First time I held her. Yeah. And it was when the church plant here in Junction City was meeting for the first time and where we're going to gather, where our location is going to be.

And through that, I met Becky and - Well, I met you first. Yes.

Right. But this is a story about how we met, not my testimony necessarily. Sure. Okay. Yeah. So I was just kind of filling in some blanks while you're collecting yourself.

So you want to pick up from there? Sure. Okay. So I got sound, went to Bible studies, and through the whole broken process,

I was able to put both feet on the ground only by the grace of God. It was just amazing how the

Lord just put all the pieces together and you can look back and it just, it's astounding how it just makes sense now.

Whereas before, you're trying to understand, but you don't get it, but you want to.

And so it finally clicked and God revealed it.

And it was just amazing, the gospel and everything and how I'm just a terrible sinner and didn't deserve any help whatsoever.

And yet here He is saving me. All these things you didn't know growing up as a Catholic and now the truth is coming out.

This was in a Wesleyan church, by the way. Right. Yeah. That all this came about for you. Right. So then we planted the

Wesleyan church. In Junction City. In Junction City. Which doesn't exist anymore. With my folks.

Unfortunately. Yeah. Right. Your dad's still a Wesleyan minister though. He is. Yes. And so it was a little closer to home.

And so it made travel a lot nicer too because we were traveling quite a bit, about four or five days a week.

Yeah. And with a little infant, that makes it a little bit of a challenge.

How long before you and I met was it that you got baptized? Annie was in a car seat still because she was over on the side of the pool in a car seat.

One of my earliest memories of you was that - It was the summer. So she had to be about four or five months old.

Oh, okay. Yeah. So that was before we met, before I held her for the first time. Because that was in October.

I still remember when that was. It was rainy outside. I can remember all that too. Yeah. Because we were at a church.

Where the old Nash Church used to be. We were at a church event and they're like, so you want to get baptized? And I'm like, I was already baptized as a baby.

And they're like, well, you know - Yeah. They didn't know how to explain it to me. And I'm like, well, they're like, well, now you know

Christ. I'm like, I knew Christ all along because I was still a baby in the faith. So in my mind,

I had just learned more about Christ. And now that I'm more mature,

I understand the difference between the two. But back then it was what I already knew.

And I just, anyway, so they convinced me that it was a good idea to get baptized again.

Because I remember, like I said, one of my earliest memories of you was the picture of you getting, being given your baptism certificate.

Okay. Do you remember that? No. Okay. So your dad's handing you your baptism certificate. Right. And you're standing there in the picture.

You're just like - You guys can't see this face. Your lips are pursed.

I'm kind of glaring. Your eyes looking off to the side. Yeah. And you're just like - I was so embarrassed. Your dad was so proud.

I know he was. And that's why I did it. It was because he was able to baptize me.

But now I get it. I am glad that I did. At the time

I was very embarrassed though. I didn't want to in front of everybody. I'm like, can't we just do it privately?

And they're like, that defeats the whole purpose. Yeah, that's right. This is your profession before believers.

So anyway, and then I met

Gabe and the rest is still being made. Still being written. That's right. Still being written into history.

Now we've got four kids. Yes. Annie, who again is my daughter. Then Zachary was born just not quite a year after we got married.

We were married August 1st. He was born the following June. The first day of summer.

Yes. And then we've got Aria, who is four, at least at the time of this recording.

Mariah, who is two, just now turned two. And our family is, the

Lord is still writing our story. So hoping to see Annie in maybe the near future, make a decision to want to be baptized as well.

She's very, very sharp, very smart on, and she's also shown signs of guilt because of sin and a desire to want to follow

God. And anyway. Be praying for them. Yes. Thank you.

And sorry, that ended up being pretty long. Yeah. We're halfway into the episode now. Yeah. I got choked up.

If we're going to answer the next eight questions that way. Well, that was a simple question. This could go a little bit longer.

But thank you, Sebastian. I don't think we've ever shared that on the broadcast before. Nope. That was my first time.

There's our testimonies. But all glory be to God. Yes. He is the one who protected me and brought me into his kingdom through faith in Jesus Christ.

Same is true for Becky as well. So, you know, yeah, when we started sharing those testimonies, I said our testimonies are pretty similar.

Well, everybody's testimony is the same in the sense that it is God who saves and it is keeps us saved.

So we go on now to the next question from Linda. Hi, Pastor Gabe and Becky, too. My husband and I have enjoyed listening to your podcast for several years now.

Wow. That's hard. I don't ever really think about that. We've been doing this for several years now. We have, haven't we?

That's awesome. Started in 2015. Hey, no rapid trails. Get busy. Oh, yes. Right. Okay. I listen every day on my way to work.

It's the perfect time length for my drive, not to mention that it's my favorite podcast.

Yeah. I also especially enjoy when Becky is on with you on Fridays. I know

I get that a lot like we don't like the Friday podcast when Becky's not on there. She adds a delightful personal touch to the show.

Thank you for sharing your lives with us. And thank you so much for your ministry. I have a couple of things to ask about.

First, I would like to ask for show notes on the Ordo Saludis that you discussed on Monday, February the 18th.

That's the order of salvation. Okay. I gave a 10 step order of salvation. I love the golden chain reference, but I really appreciated getting a fuller explanation of all the steps involved.

Do you have show notes and or references that you can share of where you took your material from?

You can go back to that episode to listen to the order of salvation. I'm going to go ahead and email the list to Linda.

Okay. So there's the answer to that first question. Next, as I opened up your website to find your email,

I saw the short on the Bible whispers about sexual sin. That was a statement that was made by J .D.

Greer. I have heard the discussion about J .D. Greer sermon on your podcast, Todd Friel's Wretched podcast and James White's podcast.

Anyway, what struck me just now that I had not noticed before was the text under your video indicating that J .D.

Greer was quoting Jen Wilkin. Oh, no. Now, do I have to be careful about Jen Wilkin?

I have one of her books and was planning on getting another one or two. I thought she was reformed, quote unquote, approved as a safe women's ministry author.

Can you please shed some light on this? Where did this quote of Jen Wilkin come from? Again, thank you for your ministry to all of us.

May the Lord continue to bless you, your family, your church and your ministry through WWU TT blessings.

Linda, I do not know where that quote from Jen Wilkin came from. I referenced it in the transcript of the video because J .D.

Greer started that explanation on sexual sin by saying, according to Jen Wilkin.

So that so I made sure to attribute what he was saying as a quote from her. I wasn't really doing that to try to discredit

Jen Wilkin. I was just making sure that the source was well covered in the material that was being presented.

So I don't know exactly where that quote came from, nor do I even know if the quote as J .D.

Greer used it was in the same context that he was using it. Was Jen Wilkin talking about sexual sin?

I don't have any idea. Should you be concerned about Jen Wilkin? Yes. And the reason why you should be concerned is because she comes from Matt Chandler's church.

And Chandler has been on a steady decline over the last few years. And it's very unfortunate.

But Wilkin is kind of going right along with that. There was at one point, Becky and I were also huge Jen Wilkin fans.

We led a study or Becky led a study, a women's study at our church using her Sermon on the

Mount series, which was still a great series. I think you guys also read through study your

Bible. Yeah. Women of the word. Yeah. Yeah. That was a book that we distributed at our church. But since the village church has been going in the direction that it's been going and it's falling into like some political liberalism, there's there's some deep concerns there.

Wilkin likewise has started to go that way. Now, I don't think listening to Jen Wilkin is means that it's not the same as listening to Beth Moore.

Right. I think the two are still worlds apart, but she's starting to chum with that group of women. And so you need to be concerned about.

Be discerning about which work you are like if it's her earlier work versus.

Yeah. It's a couple of recent things. Right. Something like that. I would encourage you. I've already mentioned Michelle Leslie for a correction that she issued to me.

She's on top of it. That's right. Right. So visit her her Web site. You remember right off hand what it is?

Michelle Leslie dot com. No, it's like Michelle Leslie. Right. No, you're right.

Michelle Leslie dot com. I was thinking it was Michelle Leslie rights or Michelle Leslie blog. No, it's just Michelle Leslie dot com.

Anyway, discipleship for Christian women. That is the name of her blog. So if you go to check out that Web site and search for Jen Wilkin, she would be able to give you better background into some of the concerns related to Jen Wilkin that I'm able to give.

And Michelle Leslie is also on Twitter and Facebook in case you wanted to keep updated on her discernments.

Yes. Always post great stuff. Oh, yeah. Thank you, Michelle. Next question comes from Raymond in Chicago.

Hi, Pastor Gabe. In today's program, this was back on Monday, you said that demons are the angels that followed

Satan. Where does scripture say this or make that comparison? Dr. Michael Heiser believes that demons are the spirits of the dead

Nephilim and makes a pretty good argument for it. Can you give your thoughts on this?

I've heard a couple of things from Michael Heiser. I know that he teaches over at Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary or his his teaching has been used there.

I don't think he's there in person. I think it's an online thing. OK, anyway, I might be wrong about that, but I have heard his descriptions related to angels before, and I don't really agree with the way that he breaks down an understanding of angels.

He's even written a book on it. I haven't read the book, but I've heard a couple of his statements related to how he explains the appearance of angels in the

Bible. And he thinks that angels are different than the cherubim and the seraphim.

And I don't agree. The seraphim and the cherubim are angels. But he says that angels just look like men.

And he's using the story in Genesis where they went to Sodom and Gomorrah and Lot saw them coming and he saw the two men.

So angels just look like men. But that's not true. That's not what the Bible says related to angels. They had a human form in that particular story, but that doesn't mean that angels look like men.

Right. So. So anyway, the his systematic theology related to angels,

I don't necessarily agree with. So I'm probably not going to agree with his view on what the demons are.

We have references throughout the Bible to the angels that follow

Satan as being the demons. In Matthew chapter 25, 41, Jesus says, Depart from me, you cursed into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Matthew 12, 27 through 28, Jesus says, If I cast out demons by Beelzebul, who, by the way, is explained in chapter nine to be the prince of demons, who would that be?

That would be Satan. If I cast demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out?

Therefore, they will be your judges. But if it is by the spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

So that's Christ making a reference to the demons, which are followers of Satan. In Revelation 12, 9, we have the reference to Satan's angels were thrown down with him.

And in Luke chapter 10, verses 17 through 20, we have the story of Jesus sending out the 72 and it says the 72 returned with joy, saying,

Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name. And Jesus said to them,

I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions and over all the power of the enemy and nothing shall hurt you.

Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.

In other words, don't boast in your ability to be able to cast out demons in my name. Rejoice that your name is written in heaven.

And he makes an equivalency between the demons and the role of Satan himself.

We cast out demons in your name. Well, I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. Yeah. So I'm not impressed.

Right. That was that was Christ's response to that. So anyway, the demons are those angels which were cast out of heaven with Satan.

There's not anything in particular that's different than the demons from the angels who follow

Satan. It's all the same thing. Jesus even refers to them as spirits. The spirits are subject to you.

And we have in 1 John 4, 1, Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, for there are many false prophets that have gone out into the world.

All right. Next question comes from Neil. Hi, Pastor Gabe and Becky. My name is Neil. I could have just read that at the start of the email.

And I have a question regarding spiritual gifts. How do I know which spiritual gifts I have?

Do spiritual gifts apply only through church ministries since the book of Corinthians and Romans were given to the church?

Thank you. And I love your ministry. So let me give a kind of a quick understanding of spiritual gifts, according to what we have in Romans chapter 12.

Paul says, For by the grace given to me, I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.

For as in one body, we have many members and the members do not all have the same function.

So we though many are one body in Christ and individually members, one of another having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us.

Let us use them. If prophecy in proportion to our faith, if service in our serving, the one who teaches in his teaching, the one who exhorts in his exhortation, the one who contributes in generosity, the one who leads with zeal, the one who does acts of mercy with cheerfulness.

So here's kind of a basic list of gifts of the spirit, which we also see repeated in first Corinthians chapter 12, a certain category of gifts that's given there as well.

So how do you know what gift of the spirit that you have? Really I would encourage you to ask your church about that.

I think the best way to know what gift of the spirit you have for the service of the church, since that's the purpose of the spiritual gifts,

Paul makes that clear with the Corinthians, it is to serve the church. So which gift do you have?

Maybe your pastor can help you understand that or the members of your church help you understand that.

Now I will tell you, be beware of those who want to lay hands on you and declare upon you a gift.

Yeah. That's not the same. Yeah. Not the same thing. And also be mindful of, you may be put in a place that you're not as comfortable or as gifted in, but that's where they need your help in the church.

Sure. And so, but don't just, you know. You have the gift of stacking chairs.

Yeah. Don't, don't make a big deal about it not being your, you know, your unique gift, but do it with a cheerful heart and, cause you know that it needs to be done.

Right. Yeah. Consider this the way that Jesus said, if you're responsible with little, you'll become responsible with much.

Right. So maybe sweeping the floors at the church is the way you get started. And then through the exercise of grace with the people around you, you're going to discover as you are handed more responsibility, a gifting that you have.

Right. To maybe even lead people and not just feel like you're a follower all the time.

It's not going to be for everybody to lead, but maybe you will find that in your, in your call to ministry.

Right. Now, Neal, as you are a young man, I don't know if you're married or not, but every man who is a husband has an obligation to lead his wife.

He has to be the head of his household and also to lead his children. If you are a father and you have kids in the training and the instruction of the

Lord, that responsibility primarily falls upon you regardless of your gifting. Right.

That's something that you have to do in your own home. So all husbands and fathers should be to some degree teachers.

Yes. That we may lead our families in the way of Christ. Next question comes from Nithin in Richmond, Virginia.

We have heard from Nithin before. Hey, Pastor Gabe, I just wanted to get a right understanding on how I should proceed with dating to honor

God and avoid divorce practice. You stated in a recent episode to contact you if we needed any further help on this.

I think this was actually a sermon that I delivered. It was the Q &A following Second Corinthians.

Yes. One of the questions that came about Christian dating in that particular sermon.

I know that this was originally something I heard Votie Bauckham say and I wanted to be instructed on how

I should pursue a woman. I have talked with many people and they tell me that God will not drop my wife out of the sky but I have to go find her even in the midst of God's sovereignty.

Will God just present me with a woman or is there some type of process I need to get through while avoiding dating?

Any advice would be helpful. Well earlier when Becky and I were sharing our testimony, I mentioned that she and I were dating.

But that was just using the common nomenclature of our day. We from our very first date at Pizza Hut, sitting across from one another eating pizza and we saw the

Dark Knight, Batman. Yes, because I had not seen it before. That was right.

He used to ask me on a date. So even from that date, sitting across from one another at Pizza Hut in Abilene, Kansas, we made clear to one another that this was not for fun, just to find somebody to goof off with but that we were looking for marriage.

We made that clear to one another from our very first date and that if at any point we thought this wasn't going anywhere that we needed to call it off.

Either one of us. Yes, either one of us. It didn't have to be both. So we had the benefit of going to the same church together and most of the time when we saw each other, it was at church.

So we're surrounded by our Christian brothers and sisters and it wasn't just Sunday. It was

Bible studies during the week. We also volunteered in the youth group together. And so when we would see each other, we would kiss hello.

We incurred a rebuke from the pastor's wife one time on that. But our affection was kept to a limited.

I would say we did not do that perfectly through our relationship. We had to put the brakes on at one point, but still tried to care for one another.

We went through marriage counseling from three different counselors. There was our pastor and two other pastors.

And then plus we went to the Weekend to Remember Marriage Conference done by Family Life Today.

We did that as pre -weds and then we did it again after we got married. We went to the

Weekend to Remember again. So anyway, I would hope that I don't know what size church you go to.

I don't know if there are any single young women there, but find a young woman there and approach her and say, you know, hey, can we go out to dinner sometime?

But maybe arrange that with some other friends. Right. And seek counsel from some other friends as well.

So like, hey, I've got my eye on this gal. What do you know about her? Can we all get together and go out sometime?

Can you guys get me together with this gal? You know, have it be a

Christian brother -sister group effort. And I'll tell you that the older ladies in your church, they are more than happy to help you find that one gal.

They love playing matchmaker. That is true. When I first met Gabe, he was actually there to meet another gal.

I was. That's true. Yes. And it was the pastor's wife. Yes, it was. That invited me to church to meet someone else who wasn't there.

She wasn't the pastor's wife at that church. No, right. She ended up becoming the pastor's wife at our planted church.

That's right. But anyway, so, yeah, yep. They are more than happy to help.

And, you know, if one doesn't work out, maybe it's the other person that you forgot you met.

Yeah. No jabs. No jabs. Tell your pastor you want to get married.

Yeah. Say that. And he can pray with you and help give you guidance and counsel.

Knows how to look out for you as well. Like if he sees you going a direction that maybe in his wisdom he recognizes, that's not a good idea.

Yeah. He's able to give you guidance in that way. You're starting to get too close to that line, toe in the line.

Something like that. Yeah. So anyway, I hope that helps, Nitin. You said any advice would be helpful.

So there's some advice. Yes. Yeah. Avoid the whole falling into the whole dating game of just,

I'm going to try on a few people for a while. And I'm going to see if this woman works. If not her,

I can jump over here to this woman or something like that. And that's just, you're asking for trouble.

Yeah, that's what I was going to say. You're setting up in your mind that this person you're with is expendable. And so that's why

Vodibachum refers to dating as divorce practice. Right. The modern American understanding of dating.

This is just, there's no commitment there. There's not. And that's the problem is because you're like, oh, well, if this one doesn't work out,

I have my eye over on this girl too. Or this guy, from a girl's perspective.

And it's just like, are you really focusing on this one person? Do you really care about this one person in front of you?

You know, who's, I don't know. It's just, it's discouraging. Yeah, right. Yeah, that's really a good way to put it.

I mean, there's nothing encouraging about the dating pool. No. And then you're like,

I want to do everything to make this person happy so they like me and they stay with me and maybe get married.

And then you get into a mess of trouble. Just think of how messy a public pool can be and think of dating just like that.

I'm looking forward to summer, thank you. All right,

I am going to skip down to the last question here. So we're not going to get to all these nine questions. We're going to have to save some until next week.

I'm going to skip down to the last one here, Pastor Gabe and Becky. If a Bethel Hill song or elevation song has theologically sound lyrics, is it inconsistent to throw out that music for their bad sources and keep singing

Martin Luther's hymns even when he was anti -Semitic in his later years? Isn't how you practice your theology just as important or more important than what you teach?

The same goes with people like Zwingli, who stood on the sidelines when the Anabaptists were executed.

Should we accept songs that are theologically correct no matter where they originated? If a pagan wrote a song that correctly describes and praises

God, wouldn't it be to his folly for trying to falsely worship God but describes praise to him in a roundabout way?

I don't know too much about Zwingli and that part of history, but these are arguments that I have heard for keeping the

Bethel songs as long as they are theologically sound. They care more about the content of the lyrics than where they originate.

I am seeking clarity in this ongoing debate, and I am not arguing in favor of those songs or supporting those churches in any way.

Thank you for your podcast. I enjoy listening to your teaching and discussions with your wife on my way to school.

Soli Deo Gloria Christian. You got a great name, Christian. Yeah. Okay, here's the very, very simple answer to what you have asked.

Why should we not sing songs from Bethel? Let's just stick with Bethel for now.

Why should we not sing songs from Bethel church? Why is it okay to sing from Martin Luther or Zwingli?

I don't even know any hymns by Zwingli. But I'm not familiar. So we'll stick with Martin Luther and Bethel. Okay. Why is it okay to sing a mighty fortress is our

God, but not sing reckless love? Very simple. Martin Luther worshiped the true

Christ of the Bible. Bethel church does not. There's your answer. Yeah. So it doesn't matter if you could look at a

Bethel song and say that it has acceptable content, like the Bethel song. This is amazing grace.

Let's get rid of reckless love. That one clearly doesn't work. But you talk about the song. This is amazing grace.

Okay. One of the most popular songs to come out of Bethel. Is it okay to sing that one? I would say no, because they're singing to a different Christ than the

Christ of the Bible. And there's all manner of resources out there to show you that who Bethel church believes

God is, is not who the Bible says God is. And as I said, in one of my what videos,

Bethel church's understanding of the Holy Spirit is to the same degree as what the Mormon church says

Jesus Christ is. Bethel church believes in a completely different Holy Spirit than the

Holy Spirit of the Bible, just as Mormonism believes in a Christ that is not the Christ of the Bible. Right. So therefore, all of it is trash.

Discard it. Martin Luther, on the other hand, where there's some terrible things in his life. Absolutely understand.

Martin Luther was a tortured soul. There were numerous issues that he wrestled with, and there are a lot of different wonky things that you could find in Luther's theology.

Absolutely. But this was a man who desired with all of his heart to honor God. That was what he was pursuing.

He wanted to recover the true gospel that had been tainted and sorted by the

Catholic church. It had been shrouded in darkness. Hence the motto of the reformation post -Tenebrous

Luke's out of darkness light. Right. And that was what Luther wanted. He wanted the light of the gospel to shine once again and away from the

Catholic church and all of its popish declarations and impositions on the scripture, which warped the word of God.

And so you have a completely different pursuit from Martin Luther than you have from Bethel, Hillsong and Elevation, which are after money.

And when you are singing their songs, they are profiting off of this. Now, you had mentioned if a pagan wrote a song that correctly describes and praises

God, wouldn't it be to his folly for trying to falsely worship God, but ascribes praise to him in a roundabout way?

I could even give you an example of that. The song, Oh, Holy Night. OK. Now, I don't remember the story behind this exactly, but if memory serves, both of the men that wrote that song,

Oh, Holy Night, became apostate. So they left the faith. So is it OK for us? Clearly, they were not true believers.

So is it OK for us to sing, Oh, Holy Night? Even though these two men became, you know, fell out of the faith.

I would say, yeah, it's fine. Nobody's profiting off of this song. Nobody's being led to any false theology singing,

Oh, Holy Night. But you are led to false theology if you sing Bethel, Hillsong and Elevation songs.

And I can tell you, I get tons of emails from people who say, hey, we were, I used to listen to Bethel music.

I started following the teaching from their church. I get emails all the time from that. From their music,

I was led to Bill Johnson's teaching. Or from Elevation's music, I was led to Stephen Furtick's teaching or the terrible teaching comes out of Hillsong.

I can show you where people fall into this kind of material. It's not just, it's not just harmless stuff.

Right. And so we need to be careful in this, particularly in this internet age when all roads lead back to where it came from.

Right. And it's at the tip of your fingertips. Right. Tip of your fingertips. I know,

I was like, wait a second, that didn't come out right. It's easy to find. It is.

It's easy to come back to this kind of material. And furthermore, All you have to do is ask Google. There's plenty, yeah. Or Alexa.

I'm setting off everybody's Alexa's now. I wasn't going to do that. There is plenty of stuff out there.

We don't need Bethel, Hillsong or Elevation. Right. I really don't understand. There's a certain part of me that does not understand this debate because we don't have to have it.

We have a whole plethora library of stuff that we can pick from. Once again,

Sovereign Grace Music, getting the Grace Hymns hymn book. Keith and Kristen Getty.

Who is the guy that Keith Getty wrote with? Oh, it's going to bug me.

Stuart Townend. I wouldn't have said that. Yeah. Anyway, he was the co -writer on In Christ Alone.

Okay. City Hymns, Seeds of Faith, Family Worship. There's a lot of different resources that we can utilize and find even modern renditions of these things.

Oh, yeah. And they're fun and catchy. And you just have to put it in front of those people that are dragging their feet.

Yeah, there's good. Yeah. Because they're like, I love this. I jam to it, you know, and you're like, you can jam to these and their sound.

It's easier to find Bethel Hillsong and Elevation because there's a lot more money pushing their songs.

That's true. You know, having come from the radio biz, I don't think you understand how much money it takes to get a song to your ears and the way it gets played on K -Love and all this other kind of thing.

There's been a lot of money backing that stuff. And it's why it's so easy to access and find.

Chris Tomlin's stuff, David Crowder, et cetera, et cetera. They've got the power of the record label behind them to put that stuff in front of you.

So it takes a little bit more digging to find the sound stuff, but there's plenty of it out there.

And there's not a reason for us to have to fall back into these false churches have nothing to do with them. That's right.

All right. That's our conclusion. That's the end of our show. Yeah, we got through most of them.

Yeah, we did. I think I've got two or three in there that I didn't get to. So we'll save those for next week. Sounds good. Let's pray.

All right, let's. Our wonderful God, we thank you for our time together, that we can dive into your word and that we can rejoice in the goodness that you have shown us through your son,

Jesus Christ. And I pray that you continue to lead us in paths of righteousness for your namesake, as David prayed in the

Shepherd Psalm, Psalm 23, and that we would seek the Lord with all of our hearts, that we would flee from the temptations of this world, that we would cling to God, drawing near to you and receiving this promise, according to James in James 4, you will draw near to us.

Jesus saying to his disciples, I will not leave you as orphans, I will come to you. And so lead us in the ways of our heavenly father, that we may be worthy sons and daughters of God.

And we pray these things in Jesus name. Amen. All right,

I think we're rolling here. Check. Tech.

The word is check. Check. I heard tech. I heard you say tech. I said check. I heard tech.

I have it recorded. Do you want me to go back and play it? Yes. And prove that I said check? I want proof.

Show me. All right. Check. See, I said check.

Mm, mm, mm. I heard tech. That's check. Is this going to be like that?

What was that thing where a word played and some people heard one word? I don't know that. And other people heard another word?

I just know the visual ones. Yeah, there was the thing with the dress. Is it a blue dress or is it a white dress?

Right. Yeah. But this was, hang on, I got to look this up. What was the, there was a thing where there was a certain audio that played and people heard,

I guess at one frequency you heard one word and another frequency you heard another word. And so some people heard at the low frequency and they heard a different word.

Oh, that's weird. Hang on. I don't even know how to search for this. Word, audio.

Debate. Debate, yeah. Hang on, let's see. This was, oh yeah, Laurel or Yanni.

It came right up. What did I tell you? Do you hear Laurel or Yanni? Did you ever do this?

No. Okay, hang on, I'm going to play it. I think it'll come through this channel here.

That one's playing the whole. What do you hear?

I'm supposed to hear Yanni? Yeah, that's supposed to be Yanni. I mean,

I guess there's something in the background, but I hear Laurel. I know. So this was this big debate.

Some people heard Yanni and other people heard Laurel. I don't know if it was one of those things where it was on, you type it in on dictionary .com

and the word comes up and then you push play to hear the pronunciation, but certain people were going, well, that's not

Laurel, that's Yanni. I don't know if it was that. I don't know if that's how this was discovered.

Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, but I definitely said check. Right. I'm going to let it go.