January 1, 2025 Show with Dr. Conrad Mbewe AND Dr. Joe Jacowitz on “The Minister As Shepherd”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century Gospel Minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the Church and the world today.

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Proverbs 27, verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Happy New Year, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

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Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this first day of January 2025.

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I want to, first of all, thank the hundreds of you who have been confirming with me that you have been praying steadfastly for my health.

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As many, if not most of you know, I've been in and out of the hospital.

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I just spent seven straight days in the hospital, including

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Christmas, and was delighted to be finally discharged and also feeling much better than when

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I first entered into the hospital with the worst symptoms so far of congestive heart failure.

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I could hardly breathe and called my doctor. He said, get to the emergency room, and that was over a week ago.

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That was before Christmas, and thanking God to be home and thanking

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God to be conducting this first live broadcast in quite a while, as I said, and especially because it is the first day of 2025, and I am so thrilled to have two very dear friends on the program.

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First of all, my dear friend, Dr. Conrad Mbewe, who is not only the founding chancellor of African Christian University, but he's also the pastor of Kabwata Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia, Africa.

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I have known Dr. Mbewe since 2000, I'm sorry, earlier than that.

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Since 1996, I have known Dr. Mbewe because he was the very first American church where Dr.

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Mbewe preached ever outside of continental

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Africa. The first American church where he preached was the church where I was formerly a member.

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Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick, New York. That was 1986, and we have remained close friends ever since.

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He's been on this program many times since. We have been at the same conferences on many occasions since.

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He has been one of my Iron Trip and Zion Radio Free Pastors Luncheon speakers, and I'm looking forward to,

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God willing, having him back to do the same. We are delighted to announce that Dr.

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Mbewe is going to be on Long Island, New York, my former home, from January 16th through the 18th, preaching at Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Coram, New York.

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That is the 2025 First Love Pastors Conference. On the theme,

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The Minister of Shepherds. Joining Dr. Mbewe is going to be my trainee,

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Pastor Joe Jackowitz, founder of First Love Ministries, and also one of his colleagues with First Love Ministries, Austin Huggins, is also going to be preaching at this conference.

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I understand we've also been joined, or we've had an addition to the roster,

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Pastor Steve Hoffmeyer of Trinity Baptist Church of Montville, New Jersey.

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First of all, welcome back to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, my longtime dear friend,

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Dr. Conrad Mbewe. Thank you. Thank you very much for having me,

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Chris. I'm looking forward to the time we'll have together. Thank you. And could you tell our listeners something more about Kowabata Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia, and also about African Christian University?

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Well, first of all, Kowabata Baptist Church commenced in the early 1980s.

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I began pastoring there in 1987. It's very involved in church planting across Zambia and across Africa.

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We've thus far planted about 40 plus churches, half of which are now completely independent with their own elderships.

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Membership is just over 400 now.

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Yeah, that's what I would say. And it's a very sort of outreach oriented congregation.

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In the capital city of Lusaka, it was established by Lusaka Baptist Church.

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Then the African Christian University was planted by a number of Reformed Baptist churches in Zambia to be a way to disciple our young adults with a biblical worldview as they are being trained in their professional fields.

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So we have agriculture, business, education, and theology as the four schools that are currently enrolling students and seeing them through.

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Our theological school also goes as far as a master's degree in pastoral theology.

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So that's what I would say. We have roughly 100 plus students in total in all those four schools.

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And yeah, it's just encouraging to be there day by day, molding these young lives and seeing them in due season, graduating to impact not only

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Zambia but also the continent of Africa. Thank you. Well, praise

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God. Do you have a website for both Kaboata Baptist Church and also for African Christian University?

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For the Kaboata Baptist Church, it is simply that same word, kaboatabaptistchurch, as one word, dot com.

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And then for the African Christian University, it is scu -zambia .com.

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But also if you just Google those two names, you should be able to see their websites as an option for you to click on.

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Great. Well, my friend Joe Jakowicz, founder of First Love Ministries, which is also the ministry that runs

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First Love Radio, where you hear Iron Trip and Zion Radio Daily live streaming.

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Pastor Joe is also pastor of Christ Bible Church in Dublin, California.

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And welcome back to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, brother. Thank you,

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Chris. Glad to be with you. Well, tell our listeners, for those of them that are not aware, about First Love Ministries.

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First Love Ministries has its roots back in 1988, when my wife and I started sending out

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Christian literature from our kitchen table, as well as our local church started going door to door, passing out literature.

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Since that time, we have distributed almost 500 ,000 books free of charge at pastors' conferences and Bible conferences all around the world in Africa, Asia, Europe, not too much in South America.

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We're still breaking in there. We have more opportunities than we actually have resources, frankly, for God to provide.

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But all of our resources, whether it be conferences, literature, teaching, registration at conferences, is free of charge.

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We've never charged one penny for anything in over 30 years of ministry at First Love Ministries.

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First Love Ministries consists of four separate ministries.

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Each one focuses on the proclamation of the Word of God. We have First Love Radio that is proclaiming the

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Word of God through radio. First Love Missions, where we have five branches of First Love Missions in five different countries, such as Nigeria, Nepal, the

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Philippines, India, and Kenya. And in our missions, we have conferences usually two, three times a year in each location.

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And we, again, distribute literature. And the local church branch that we're affiliated with follows up with the attendees and disciples them and encourages them to attend church and, of course, become real

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Christians, to become saved. And so that is the ministry of the Word through missionary outreach.

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And then we have the third ministry of the Word, which is teaching through Grace Bible University.

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We have an AA degree, an Associate's Arts degree, we offer in Biblical Studies.

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We're working on now the next degree program, which will be a Bachelor's Degree in Theology.

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And all of our courses are provided free of charge. We're working on getting an

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Internet version set up so that men can be trained online throughout the world, free of charge, tuition -free, to be pastors.

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So that's the Word of God proclaimed through Bible study courses, which is more discipleship and teaching -focused, to lay a foundation of theology and doctrine in the student's life.

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And then, fourthly, we have First Love, Grace Bible University, I mentioned.

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We have First Love Missions, First Love Radio, and First Love Publications, the one I started with.

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Like I said, we've distributed over a couple of million tracts and booklets, and over 500 ,000 books worldwide at our conferences and just in promiscuous evangelism through our branches.

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And also all of our conferences are free of charge, including the food. All of our preachers, we usually send a panel or a team of preachers,

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Reformed Baptists, anywhere from two to five or six preachers to each one of these nations two or three times a year to hold conferences.

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And we're always training and encouraging new pastors to join the team, so we train as many seasoned pastors to do missions work.

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I also train pastors on doing radio. So whenever I lead a team, I always buy airtime at the most listened -to radio station, and we train this team of pastors on how to do live radio and do

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Q &A sessions and spontaneous teaching and Q &As on the radio as well.

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So we're drawing from our radio experience to do that.

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As a matter of fact, we're working on a radio program with Dr. Mbewe here, with him and four other preachers from Africa, a fellow preacher and a good friend of his and a friend of mine,

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Pastor Ronald— help me pronounce the last name, brother. Kalifungwa.

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Yeah, Kumfungwa. Kalifungwa. Kalifungwa.

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There you go. Him and Dr. Mbewe to represent

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Zambia and several other preachers, one from Kenya, one from Malawi, and one from Nigeria.

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So we're calling it the African Hour. It's actually going to be two hours of programming devoted to highly respected

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African preachers and pastors that we hold in high esteem that will be proclaiming the

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Word and will be laying down a foundation for both pastors and believers in Africa of what biblical preaching really is.

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If we can do this on the air through a radio station, through a worldwide radio station and ministry like First Love Radio, which is heard 24 -7 worldwide, we can not only teach and educate listeners with the

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Word, but we can train pastors on how to preach.

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Instead of focusing on money and material things, we can identify the real essence of preaching and pastoral ministry.

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So we're working on that, and I encourage our First Love Radio listeners to stay tuned because hopefully in the next couple of months here, there'll be a very big announcement about this two -hour radio slot on First Love Radio.

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So we have First Love Publications, Missions, Grace Bible University, and First Love Publications.

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All of this is focusing on the Word proclaimed through radio, Bible study courses, missions, and the printed page.

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I'm also the pastor of Christ Bible Church in Pleasanton, not Dublin, but Pleasanton, California.

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Yeah, Dublin's your mailing address. Yes, that's okay, brother. Thirty miles east of San Francisco, we are located, and we are constantly in battle with forces in this area that don't embrace the gospel, but that's normal for true

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Christianity wherever we are. But we've been here since 1990 when the church was first planted.

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Our website for the church is ChristBibleChurch .org, ChristBibleChurch .org.

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And of course, First Love is FirstLoveMinistries .org,

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FirstLoveMinistries .org. And we have two books to offer free of charge today based on this program and the interview that Chris is going to do with Dr.

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Mbewe and myself. We're offering today, The Minister as Shepherd by Charles Jefferson, which is the book we're giving away at the

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Pastors Conference coming up in two weeks. So if you're a pastor or a church leader, there's still time to register for the

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Pastors Conference. You can squeak under the wire, but you need to do that within the next week or two.

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It's FirstLoveMinistries .org, that's FirstLoveMinistries .org.

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And on the homepage, there's a link to register and a description of the conference and the speakers, including

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Dr. Mbewe and myself, and you'll get all the information about it.

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That's FirstLoveMinistries .org. And we do have two books a month that you can order online free of charge.

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It will be sent to you postage paid. That's FirstLoveMinistries .org. And I just want to remind you that the conference is being held from Thursday, January 16th, coming up very quickly, through Saturday, January 18th.

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And that is at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York.

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And the website for Hope Reformed Baptist Church is hopereformedli .com.

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That's hopereformedli .com.

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And you will have all the information on elections and so on. And these folks have provided for me, meaning

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Hope Reformed Baptist Church. They have provided for me a home away from home.

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Whenever I travel back to my old stomping grounds where I was born and raised,

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Long Island, New York, I always love visiting and worshiping with Pastor Rich Jensen, Pastor Anthony Uvino, and Pastor Christopher McDowell, and the saints at Hope Reformed Baptist Church.

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Can I jump in for a second real quick? Go ahead. I neglected to mention that you are going to be the emcee and the moderator of the conference.

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So I'm just so blessed to partner with Iron Sharpens Iron and yourself with First Love for you to be right there with us.

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If you've been listening to Iron Sharpens Iron on First Love Radio, Chris and I partner in hosting this program.

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It's our privilege to do so every day, Monday through Friday from 4 to 6 p .m.

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East Coast time. But you'll be able to talk with Chris and I, Dr.

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Mbewe and all the speakers there. The other thing is the second book we have to offer today is

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Holiness by J .C. Ryle. That's Holiness by J .C. Ryle, a classic on the subject.

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If you are a member of a church or you attend a church, you need to get a hold of this book for your pastor.

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That is The Minister as Shepherd. You can order it on firstloveministries .org.

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The Minister as Shepherd is the best book on pastoring, capturing the essence of pastoring that I have ever read.

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And I have over 100 books on pastoral theology and pastoring in my library.

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This is the best, and it's just a little paperback that was written by an author

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I never heard of when somebody handed it to me about 25 years ago. But it really captures the core work of a pastor, which he's a shepherd.

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He's not a celebrity. He's a shepherd. And you need to give your pastor this book.

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We'll give it to you so you can give it to him. Firstloveministries .org. Great.

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And by the way, I have some important news for our listeners today. This is a very unusual broadcast today in that it is one of the few times you will ever hear a two -hour

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Iron Sharpens Iron radio episode that is completely commercial -free. There will be no commercials during this one episode of the program.

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And this program will be repeated multiple times on First Love Radio because they're really trying to get the word out about this upcoming conference.

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Can you just very briefly—and please take me literally on that—tell us about the other speakers that are going to be on the roster there at the conference,

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Brother? So, we have four speakers for our first pastor conference.

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We've been hosting pastors conferences for 30 years in doing missions work, but we've never done one in the

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United States. We've done them all overseas. So, this is a very unique situation for us.

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It's our first pastors conference. The four speakers are, of course, Dr. Conrad Mbewe.

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I highly esteem and respect his ministry. We do kind of work together in supporting a key church in Nigeria, in Lagos, Nigeria, Sovereign Grace Bible Church, pastored by Tony Okoro and Pastor Osi.

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And so we both support that work, and through that work we've seen the work in church planting and church growth mushroom over the last four or five years in particular in Nigeria.

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Dr. Mbewe's ministry also has extended his reach of church planting in Nigeria to the capital city of Nigeria, as well as other areas.

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So, we're very blessed to have Dr. Mbewe to be our conference speaker, main key speaker.

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And so you've heard his introduction. Then Pastor Austin Huggins, who is a very, very close friend going back many years, over 10 years.

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He is the vice president of First Club Ministries, working closely with me.

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He's accompanied me at many, many foreign mission trips, preaching alongside of me at pastors conferences.

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He has just recently, three or four months ago, accepted a call to Mount Zion Bible Church in Pensacola to co -pastor with Pastor Jeff there.

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Jeff Pollard. Sorry? Jeff Pollard. Jeff Pollard.

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Yeah, that's great news. I did not know that before today. Yes. So, Pastor Austin has been there now for several months.

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He oversees Mount Zion as well as Chapel Library. Many of your listeners, Chris, are familiar with Chapel Library, which we have partnered with for over 30 years, beginning with Pastor L .R.

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Shelton Jr., who was a mentor and a very good friend for many years until he passed away.

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But Pastor Huggins will be there, and also Pastor Steve Hoffmeier.

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Pastor Hoffmeier is one of the pastors at Trinity Baptist Church, which was formerly pastored by Al Martin for almost 50 years.

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Pastor Steve served on the mission field in the Philippines for over 35 years, he and his wife.

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They planted, I think they planted Moonwalk Bible Church in Metro Manila area, and from there they planted and reached out to other areas of the

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Philippines, and they have upwards of 20 or more other churches that they planted from there.

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Pastor Steve has been back in the United States now serving as a pastor at Trinity Baptist Church in Montville, New Jersey now for,

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I don't know, five or six years. I could be wrong on that by a year or two. Pastor Steve and I happened to go to Trinity Ministerial Academy together beginning in 1978.

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We were both interviewed by the elders that same day, and we started the academy together.

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So I'm looking forward to a reunion with Steve because we've kept in touch with, we kept track of each other, not necessarily in close touch, through almost over 40 years.

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But we'll get to meet each other again since about 80, again here at the

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Quorum Conference on January 16th. Great. Now, is

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Pastor Dave Chansky still there at Montville? I believe so. Okay, great.

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Well, yeah, that church has a lot of very fond memories that I cherish, and I'm looking forward to meeting

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Steve for the first time, and I'm looking forward to being at this conference and seeing it.

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One thing I want to bring out to highlight right away is

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I don't think that too much could be said about the importance of the theme of the conference, the minister as shepherd.

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And I know that I may get folks upset with me who hear what

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I'm about to say. I might even have one or both of you a little upset at me for what

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I'm about to say. But I think that perhaps even amongst

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Reformed churches especially, the minister as shepherd has taken a distant second place in importance, tragically, to the minister as third.

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And I have said with increasing frequency lately in my life that if I had the choice between being under the authority of the shepherds of a local church and the choice that I had left me forced to join a church that was less theologically pristine, obviously,

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I'm not going to ever join a church that I believe is heretical. But the joining and putting myself under the authority of shepherds in a church where the shepherds truly do live up to that description, that title, they have shepherd's hearts.

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They are shepherds perhaps even first and foremost in the way someone would immediately begin to describe them after meeting them and knowing them.

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That is a more important circumstance than having a minister or pastor who is a brilliant theologian.

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One of the reasons for that, in my opinion, is that it is far easier as a

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Christian living out your daily life in the faith to find theological tools and resources outside of the four walls of your church.

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Where you could bolster your own education and that kind of a thing become more theologically astute, grow in your knowledge of doctrine and so forth.

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That kind of thing is more easily found outside of your church than someone who is an actual shepherd of your soul.

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Now, I'm going to ask with a little bit of sweat trickling down my forehead, hoping

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I haven't offended Dr. Mbewe, but what do you think of that statement I made? Well, I think first of all, the reality is that we must never divide between the shepherd or the pastor or the minister being a theologian.

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With him being a shepherd in terms of love, care, looking out for the people of God and so on.

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Primarily because the primary way in which a pastor shepherds the people of God is through the truth.

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And more specifically, biblical truth. So, yes, we do tend sometimes to have individuals who are largely theologians and don't have a real love and care for the people of God, ending up being the primary leaders of churches.

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And yes, I agree we do a great disservice to the people of God.

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But the ideal situation is that we must have individuals that combine those two realities.

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Then we have a very healthy church leadership. Yes, of course. Even my—I'm very blessed and privileged being a member of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, which is actually a new church plant pastored by Simon O'Mahony, who does have both of those qualities and descriptions accurately identifying him as an overseer, a pastor.

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He is not only extremely sound theologically, but he has the true humble heart of a shepherd.

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So I am privileged with that situation, being a member of a church with such an overseer.

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And of course, since it's a new church, so obviously since we are Reformed Baptist, we eventually hope that the

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Lord will add to the eldership so we will have a plurality of elders. We also only have one deacon at the moment, a fine man of God, Dan Wolford.

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Since we are so new. But as I kept repeating the phrase privileged, there are people that I have met on many occasions over the years who aren't so privileged.

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The only reason I brought up what I said is for those unfortunate circumstances where someone is living in an area where they've got a choice that has to be made, where the heart of their shepherd may have to come into priority over their pastor being a theologian.

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That's the only reason I brought that up. And Pastor Joe Jackiewicz, obviously you believe this theme is important because you've named your conference after this theme.

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This is the theme that is driving the conference. Tell us more about why you chose this theme, the minister of shepherds.

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Because based on what you said and Dr. Mbewe, I think it's the most neglected attribute of a pastor today.

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As you suggested, the pastor can easily focus on his mechanical gifts, his intellectual gifts, and run with those to the neglect of his spiritual responsibilities, his spiritual gifts, and his walk with God.

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The role of a pastor as a shepherd, as a theologian, and as a preacher are inseparable.

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A true pastor must be all three of them simultaneously. And to be a shepherd means that you're using the truth, sound doctrine, and you're preaching gifts and skills to shepherd the flock.

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And the pastor becomes a vehicle. He becomes a channel through which

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Holy Ghost -driven ministry emanates from his heart, his spirit, his mind, his life to this other person.

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But if he's not equipped and prepared as a shepherd to be a channel of spiritual life, using the truth, using his gifts as a preacher and teacher and disciple maker, then he's shutting down that ministry that the sheep need, that indispensable ministry, to transform them into the image of Christ through a shepherding ministry.

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And all these other tools, even though they are very spiritual in nature, the knowledge of the truth, sound doctrine, and the highly developed stirring up of the gift that is in you through preaching and teaching, those are intended to transform ultimately the lives of your members through being a shepherd, spending one -on -one time with your sheep, counseling them for hours with blood, sweat, and tears, and genuine care, as Conrad has mentioned.

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It all comes down to shepherding, to be able to communicate supernatural truths, which must be communicated through a supernatural ministry and a supernatural animated man of God by the

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Spirit of God. In the Reformed community and churches, we've desperately neglected to teach and to emphasize the ministry of the

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Holy Spirit, because that is essential for a minister to be an effective shepherd.

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And so that's why we chose minister as shepherd as a theme. We're trying to call pastors back to shepherding sheep.

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Today, we can do so many things through technology as pastors. We can proclaim the

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Word. We can do things on a large scale through promotions and marketing and through so many ways.

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But no one can replace the ministry of the Spirit of God, who has a mind of his own.

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He's sovereign. The wind blows where it wills. You don't know where it's going. And you must connect with Him.

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You must walk with God through the power of the Spirit to bring back down a fresh anointing of God upon you so that you can supernaturally shepherd the sheep.

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And so we're calling pastors back to this essential duty among the three responsibilities, main responsibilities of a pastor.

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Well, some of the subcategories underneath the main theme of the minister as shepherd that have been given to you,

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Brother Mbewe, include the first one,

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I believe, is the first one that you were going to be addressing.

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And that is the shepherd's walk.

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Now, explain what you mean by that and why is this such an essential element to a man of God meeting the qualifications for a shepherd?

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Actually, Chris, the one he's addressing is the shepherd's character. That's going to be on the 16th,

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Thursday night. Then the shepherd's walk. But any way you want to do it. Well, why don't we start with the character then,

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Conrad? Okay. Yeah, well, I think, first of all, it's important for any pastor to realize that a shepherd is somebody who must be walking ahead of his flock.

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The concept of a shepherd and sheep, if we can go to that realm of life, is one that speaks in terms of a shepherd being one who is not walking behind the flock of sheep, but he is ahead of them.

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And they are hearing his voice, as Jesus said, and they are following him. Now, that's a physical example.

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In spiritual reality, it is the fact that the shepherd is ahead of the sheep in terms of maturation, in terms of the way in which

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Christ is formed in him. And that way, he is not saying to the flock, that's the way you should live.

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Follow that over there. He is saying, follow my example as I follow the example of Christ.

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And so, if you look, for instance, at the qualifications for eldership in the letter of Paul to both

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Timothy and Titus, you'll find that the character that is being brought out there is one of real spiritual maturity.

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And the one who is going to be a true shepherd of God's people must be quite deliberate about that.

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That once I soil my reputation,

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I disqualify myself. I can't continue leading

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God's people simply because of my gifts. I must be one who is like Christ among them.

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So, it's really that aspect that will be brought out as I handle the character of the shepherd.

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Now, do you think that far too often when we witness a truly gifted, talented individual who is in public ministry, when they fall in such a way that where they are no longer above reproach, whether it has something to do with very serious financial sin or sexual sin or other similar scandalous sins where the reputation is irreparable, the damage that has been done to the reputation is irreparable, too often, not only perhaps does the person himself, the fallen shepherd, but also those that have been extraordinarily blessed by his ministry, very often they act as if Christ needs them to successfully continue in kingdom work to spread the gospel and increase the numbers of the flock and we could go on and on and on, but we can never look at a sinner saved by grace, even if the person is truly regenerate and not just a false convert who has been a complete charlatan, even if they have been a genuinely born -again brother who has fallen.

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We cannot look at them as indispensable, can we? Yeah, well, if you're asking me,

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I think the point there is, first of all, yes, it's true that once as a shepherd, as a leader among God's people, once you begin to look at yourself as indispensable, that you are so needed by both the great shepherd of the sheep, which is

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Christ, and the sheep themselves, that you're setting yourself up for a fall, because that's pride, and pride is something that comes before a fall.

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I think all of us must consider ourselves as greatly privileged to have been called of God to steward the gospel and also to be a steward of the people themselves.

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So we must never think that God so badly needs us, that it does not matter how we are living, we must still continue.

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I think as I've already said, when Peter speaks to the elders in the scattered church, this is what he says.

47:19

He says, I exhort the elders among you as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, this is 1

47:25

Peter 5, verse 1, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed, shepherd the flock of God that is at Emanuel, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you, not for shameful gain, but eagerly.

47:47

Now this is the point I want to make, not domineering over those in your church, but being examples to the flock.

47:57

That's crucial, being examples to the flock. And that's where your character is so important.

48:07

You must want to live a life that is sanctified, that's godly.

48:17

You must have a genuine thirst for holiness, the kind of holiness that manifests itself even in the domestic sphere, so that your wife and your children can see that as a husband and father, you are genuinely a godly man.

48:43

And that pours into the life of the congregation, but certainly never thinking that you are indispensable.

49:00

By the way, folks, I do want to take this time before I forget to do it later, especially since we are airing a commercial -free program today.

49:13

I do want to give credit to whom credit is due as far as new sponsors of this program that are going to enable us to continue to exist in 2025.

49:29

First of all, the aforementioned Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania, pastored by Simon O'Maney, the congregation where I am a member.

49:41

For more details on Trinity Reformed Baptist Church, go to trbccarlisle .org,

49:50

and that's

49:56

Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania. Also, actually, the bank or the

50:11

Federal Credit Union, where my deacon, Daniel Wolford, is the

50:18

CEO, Lebanon Federal Credit Union. They are also a new sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio for the entirety of 2025, and their website is

50:32

LebanonFCU .org, LebanonFCU .org.

50:37

And last but not least, I want to praise God that we heard the great news just a few days ago that Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia, has renewed their annual sponsorship of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

50:57

And we just thank God for their generosity towards this program. We thank

51:03

Pastor Joe and his precious wife, Becky Moorcraft, for being such a strong catalyst and convincing the saints there to financially support this broadcast year after year.

51:18

And we just want to thank God publicly for them, and the website for Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia is

51:26

HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com, HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com.

51:32

Well, if you could, Pastor Joe Jacobs, highlight the messages that you are going to be addressing in regard to the minister of shepherd that you believe are essential, especially for pastors to seek to learn more about and emulate and so on, to make sure that they are reflecting the qualities and character of such a shepherd.

52:06

If I could, can I add one thing to what Dr. Mbewe said about the pastor's character?

52:12

Because he's getting me stirred up before the conference. I know that. And as every pastor should be adhering, these very sensitive things relating to the effectiveness of his ministry.

52:26

But I would like to briefly pause here and just let your listeners know about the conference, because we may have some pastors who are interested in getting more information.

52:39

The theme of our pastor's conference beginning on January 16—there's still time to register, by the way—is the minister as shepherd, and the messages will be drawn from biblical principles and wisdom to emphasize the importance of character and compassion in the pastor's ministry, exactly what

53:02

Dr. Mbewe just described. Pardon me, I have a little bit of laryngitis left over from last week, so if I sound a little scratchy.

53:12

But everyone attending will be reminded that ministry is not just about delivering sermons.

53:19

It's about becoming more Christ -like. Like our brother mentioned, it's about cultivating the loving heart of a shepherd and ultimately sharing in the glory of the chief shepherd, the

53:31

Lord Jesus Christ. And at the conference, there will be a pastor's pack of books given freely to each attendee, all related to the pastoral ministry.

53:43

And the best book on shepherding and pastoring I've ever read is The Minister as Shepherd by Charles Jefferson, will be given away free.

53:52

And so all of the food, the registration, the books, the teaching are free of charge, and we encourage pastors to sign up now while there's still room.

54:05

There is a little more room left untold, and you'll gather with colleagues, fellow pastors for fellowship.

54:13

You'll be able to compare notes and meet new friends. And so we hope you'll be there,

54:21

God willing. Chris Arnzen, your host of the program, will be the emcee and the host of the conference.

54:30

And Dr. Mbewe, myself, Austin Huggins, one of the pastors at Chapel Library, and Pastor Steve Hoffmeyer from a very well -known church in New Jersey, Trinity Baptist Church in Montville, New Jersey, will be speaking.

54:45

And if I could add one thought to what Dr. Mbewe said, you know, character is important for a lot of reasons.

54:55

You can't be a pastor unless you have the pastor's character, because the pastoral ministry is all about character.

55:01

Anybody can go to a Bible college and earn a pastoral theology degree. For over 30 years,

55:08

I've preached at pastor's conferences around the world, and I have young men approaching me saying,

55:14

Pastor Joe, what seminary do you recommend? What seminary do you recommend? I tell them, get a job, work for 10, 15, 20 years at that job, rubbing shoulders with unsaved people, learning by the power of the

55:29

Spirit and through the Word and the wisdom of God how to get along with people on all different levels, from all different ethnicities and backgrounds, and see how the

55:39

Spirit enables you to adapt easily, more easily to every situation.

55:45

And while you're doing that, yeah, you can get your theological education in many different ways and formats, but the character is so important because a man will rise or fall based on his character as a pastor.

56:03

And a pastor's character, 90 % of the time, is formed and established by his self -image.

56:13

That is how he views himself. And the influences and resources that form his self -image are the most important things that affect what comes out of his heart.

56:31

That is what he says and what he does. And today, unfortunately, we have new seminary curriculum that are teaching men how to build megachurches.

56:41

We have technology that's drawing pastors away, by the hordes, away from a heart -focused ministry.

56:50

And so all these external, peripheral, and worldly influences are forming his self -image.

56:58

They are causing him to go out and seek for things that are not God's priority, and therefore, those influences are forming his character.

57:09

And so whatever you take in, that's what you're going to be, that's what you're going to say, and that's where your affection is going to be focused.

57:17

But Paul said that, do I need letters of commendation from you, or do

57:22

I need to bring a letter of commendation to you? He says, my sufficiency is from God.

57:30

I don't need anything else but God for my character and his Word to teach me how

57:36

I should minister. As Pastor Mbewe quoted earlier, a critical verse, that is, he said, until Christ is formed in you.

57:47

The beginning of that verse says, I travail in labor, that is, in prevailing, prevailing prayer until Christ is formed in you.

57:59

The most important influence to help the pastor form Christ -likeness in his members, like he said, is for Christ to be formed in the pastor.

58:11

And a lot of that has to do with prayer in the Spirit. And so that's my one little vignette on that.

58:21

I'm going to be taking up the whole subject of the shepherd's strength, the shepherd's strength.

58:30

And to do that, one of the things I'm going to be focusing on is who ministers to the minister.

58:37

And the pastor needs more ministry than she do.

58:47

He has double or triple spiritual strength in life that he needs to give out.

58:54

And he can't just schlep along, you know, haphazardly about that, or else he won't have anything to give to other people.

59:04

So the pastor needs constant refilling of the

59:09

Holy Spirit and the Word of God. And according to one of the biggest surveys the

59:20

Barna Group had about pastors is that the church is under attack.

59:29

It's losing its focus, its strength. Most churches, most churches, and I know

59:37

I'm going to get in trouble for saying this, but it's true, are apostate, just like the

59:42

Bible teaches most people are going to hell. Are there few that be saved?

59:49

Someone asked Jesus, and then he laid down about a half a dozen parables in the

59:55

Gospels that showed the percentages of who was saved and who was not saved.

01:00:00

And he said most are going down the broad way, and few are going down the narrow way.

01:00:06

These parables of the ten virgins, the talents, and a number of others teach us that without the pastor being constantly revived, reawakened, and refilled by the

01:00:21

Holy Spirit, he's not going to have a spiritual ministry. It's all about a spiritual ministry.

01:00:29

The ministry of the Spirit is everything with God or nothing.

01:00:35

That's what I'm going to focus on, the pastor's strength. By the way, we have an anonymous listener who says,

01:00:44

I know that you are calling this a pastors conference. I was wondering if there are any other leaders of the congregation that qualify to attend this event.

01:00:58

The answer is yes. We're opening up the category to church leadership in general, such as, of course, pastors, associate pastors,

01:01:08

Sunday school teachers, teachers in general in the church, deacons.

01:01:13

If you're a deacon and you want to come, you certainly would have a big influence on pastoral ministry as a deacon.

01:01:22

Right now, we have a number of seats available, registrations available.

01:01:30

If you are a deacon, I'm going to go ahead and make an executive decision right now.

01:01:35

Go ahead and sign up. The elders at the Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Coram, New York, will let me know when we're getting close to being full.

01:01:44

Right now, we have a number of openings left, but you need to go to firstloveministries .org

01:01:51

and sign up and register. But I would say Sunday school teachers, missionaries, deacons, associate pastors, elders,

01:02:04

Presbyterians make a difference between elder and pastor or teaching pastor. If you're in that category, fine.

01:02:10

If you're an elder and you don't think you're a pastor, you can still come. Sign up.

01:02:15

Register now at firstloveministries .org. Yeah, I cannot overemphasize the opportunity that you'll be missing if you don't attend this.

01:02:29

Dr. Conrad Mbewe is truly one of the most powerful preachers

01:02:35

I have ever heard in my life. I've always held him in that high regard, honestly, without any fear of being guilty of exaggeration or hyperbole or flattery.

01:02:55

From the moment I've heard him preach for the very first time in the mid -1990s, and then when he actually came to preach at Grace Reformed Baptist Church, that view has been solidified in my mind and heart ever since.

01:03:14

You are going to be blessed, I'm sure, in ways that I cannot even describe what a gifted brother he is.

01:03:25

Of course, I have not heard the pastor from Trinity Baptist Church in Montville, New Jersey speak yet, but I know that both

01:03:37

Pastor Joe Jackowitz and Austin Huggins are also gifted men. Please make every effort that you can to be at this event, especially if you're from Long Island or nearby.

01:03:49

You are really going to kick yourself later on if you do not attend this, especially if it was reasonably easy for you to do so.

01:04:03

One of the things that we face as a church has probably always been a dilemma in the body of Christ.

01:04:15

Pastor Conrad and Bewe, I'll go to you first. You have individuals and also congregations that, on the one hand, go way too far in exalting the unique role and importance of a pastor in a church.

01:04:43

They exaggerate it beyond what the Bible has to say. And then you have, on the other end, the extreme opposite, the 180 -degree opposite, where every member is just viewed like anybody else and there's no special emphasis placed upon a pastor at all.

01:05:03

Can you tell us about, in your opinion, obviously your opinion, which has been educated by the inerrant and infallible

01:05:14

God -breathed words of Scripture, why those are two very dangerous extremes?

01:05:23

Well, thank you very much. First of all, it's very clear from Scripture.

01:05:31

We begin with the Old Testament, that God did not simply throw the

01:05:39

Israelites together as just a homogeneous bunch of human beings.

01:05:48

There were structures to the nation of Israel. There were those that played the role, for instance, of kings or judges.

01:05:59

There were those that played the role of priests and Levites. And in due season,

01:06:06

God also gave them prophets that were independent of both rulership and priesthood.

01:06:16

So there was some leadership that was given to Israel. They also had elders who were neither prophets nor were they, in that sense, priests.

01:06:33

They were still providing rulership over the people of God. Then when you get into the

01:06:40

New Testament again, you can't miss that. Jesus did not just gather all the disciples together and say to them that you are just brothers and sisters, there is to be no leadership, there is to be nobody playing any significant role, just continue in a kind of homogeneous whole.

01:07:05

He didn't do that. He began with the twelve apostles who spent most of the time with him.

01:07:16

And in due season, they were the ones who provided leadership. You go into the book of Acts, that's what you are finding.

01:07:25

You are finding there a church that is being led by these leaders.

01:07:32

Initially apostles, but by the time you get to chapter 15, when you read what is happening there, you read about apostles and elders, apostles and elders within the context of the church in Jerusalem.

01:07:51

So again, you can't miss the fact that those were providing the leadership.

01:07:59

You get into what we call the pastoral epistles.

01:08:06

You have Timothy and Titus sent by the apostle

01:08:11

Paul to carry on work that was leadership work, but also it was primarily in terms of pastoral care, in terms of preaching the truth regularly in the midst of God's people.

01:08:32

You have Paul in his very last letter to Timothy, probably the very last that he wrote before he died, saying there that Timothy, you must preach the word in season and out of season and so forth.

01:08:53

It tells him to discharge his ministry to the full.

01:08:59

So to now say that as long as somebody wears a trouser, he should then be occupying the pulpit, we simply come up with a roster and we're taking turns because we are all supposed to simply be unrecognized, homogeneous people of God is to go to an extreme that the

01:09:29

Bible definitely doesn't have. It's the wrong understanding of the priesthood of all believers.

01:09:36

Those of all believers is emphasizing our access to God, that we don't have special individuals who are priests, who are closer to God than the rest of us.

01:09:49

But it does not teach the prophethood of all believers.

01:09:55

That's not what the Bible teaches. God calls individuals to fulfill that kind of responsibility.

01:10:07

We recognize the call on their lives and appoint them to this position that they then fulfill.

01:10:15

Having said that, it is equally true to say that churches that then exalt one person to become the man of God, that should never be questioned because he alone seems to be coming out of the presence of God and is the one we should all, as it were, bow down to and listen to what he is saying, is an opposite extreme.

01:10:55

Because the Bible teaches that you have a body of elders that function together.

01:11:04

Among them would be those who are set apart for the work of preaching and teaching, as 1

01:11:14

Timothy 5 .17 says, but they are among the elder because there must be a team of mature men who are mutually accountable so that together they are leading the flock of God.

01:11:38

So there mustn't be a situation where it is just one person and everybody else will bow to him like reeds by the side of a river when the wind blows.

01:11:55

That is not supposed to be the case. Thank you. Yes, and isn't this inseparably hinged to the understanding of church membership?

01:12:08

Because there are quite a number of people that I not only have met over the years, but that I continue to meet on a monthly basis through my work in radio and just being a

01:12:25

Christian in general, who have very little esteem or hold very little importance for membership, some even being opposed to it.

01:12:41

And they think that they can adequately honor

01:12:49

God and obey him and be his disciple by either hopping from church to church to church, never submitting in membership to any of them, or never going to a church at all.

01:13:04

Perhaps the person is a self -appointed teacher. He either has people over his home for Bible studies, or maybe he's just involved in his own personal

01:13:16

Bible study, either with himself privately or with his family.

01:13:22

But you cannot have that way of living coincide biblically, in my opinion, and I think it's fairly obvious.

01:13:33

From Hebrews 13, 17, it is quite obvious that the

01:13:44

Lord has a different story where he says, Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account, so that they may do this with joy, not groaning, for this would be unhelpful for you.

01:14:11

Obviously, to give an example, although I highly esteem

01:14:19

Pastor Joe Jacobs, I consider him a dear friend and dear brother. I consider him someone

01:14:27

I should go to to learn and glean information.

01:14:35

I am not commanded by the Scriptures to obey him, and nor is he keeping watch over my soul as he does with those who are in his own congregation.

01:14:49

So if you could, Pastor Joe, maybe you could pick up where I left off there.

01:14:57

Church membership is indispensable. In 1 Corinthians 12, at least 13 or 14 times,

01:15:05

God uses that term member or members to describe the attachment that a believer has to the body.

01:15:17

He uses a human body as a metaphor to describe the deep level of attachment and that each member of the body doesn't have the choice to voluntarily jump off the body and do his own independent thing.

01:15:35

There are critical, vital reasons why God wants every genuine

01:15:41

Christian to be a member of the body. The body of Christ cannot function at the highest possible spiritual level where all of the members only have a superficial relationship with the local church.

01:15:58

There are spiritual gifts that need to be exercised. There are relationships that need to be developed.

01:16:05

There's bonds that need to be made so that every member can reach a level spiritually where they can speak into each other's lives.

01:16:13

There can be a vibrant body life flowing from heart to heart that would stimulate the body, that would bring forth edification because the

01:16:25

Bible says, let all things be done with or through edification because when the body is edified, then

01:16:31

Christ gets glorified. And so the church, on the one hand, doesn't have the choice whether or not to join a local church, the believer, and that every believer can do what is right in their own eyes.

01:16:51

Every believer can just exercise a portion of authority himself or herself because we're all one in Christ, which is a misinterpreted phrase often.

01:17:04

No, there's a structure there. There's a reason why God designed the church to have all things be done decently and in order.

01:17:13

There are specific leaders given precise gifts to do a certain spiritual work, which includes ruling.

01:17:24

And those who rule need to rule well. Those who teach need to stir up the gift that is in them.

01:17:31

Those who shepherd the flock need to do so faithfully and go out and bring the flock back or bring the sheep back to the flock.

01:17:41

And so these leadership positions are supernaturally created to bestow supernatural ministry, including oversight.

01:17:54

Those leaders are servant leaders. They're not to domineer or lord it over the flock, but they are to exercise authority in a very humble way as an example of Christ to the flock, and that will stir up respect for them, even though there is an occasional rebel in the midst.

01:18:16

And so this is all designed very carefully and precisely by God, and it takes deep study regarding the doctrine of the church, the spiritual gifts, and how they are exercised among the body.

01:18:32

It requires teaching on 10 to 15 subcategories of the doctrine of the church so that all the members can get a very deep understanding of their commitment and their responsibility to the local church.

01:18:48

But today we don't have that. We have everything goes or anything goes.

01:18:56

There's not a premium placed on teaching, and that's one of the reasons why the doctrine of the church has fallen on hard times for many decades, for decades.

01:19:09

The church is in a scandalous situation in this regard. So looking at the two extremes, everyone can't just come into the church and do what they want to do.

01:19:19

You have chaos, and the Bible said God is not the author of confusion or chaos.

01:19:25

On the other hand, the pastors can't exercise domineering leadership any way they want to, like diatrophies did in the

01:19:35

Bible. So there is a balance there, and that balance is maintained and regulated by the

01:19:41

Scriptures, and as our brother mentioned, by men that are mature and wise and controlled and disciplined and spirit -filled.

01:19:55

Okay, we have a listener in Eastern Suffolk County, Thaddeus.

01:20:03

And by the way, Thaddeus, Eastern Suffolk County is not far away from Coram, where this conference will be, so we hope that you attend.

01:20:14

Thaddeus wants to know, first from Dr. Mbewe and then from Dr.

01:20:21

Jakowicz, how serious a problem do you believe the sin of celebrityism is in the

01:20:29

Reformed faith? And we'll start with Dr. Mbewe. Yeah, thank you.

01:20:36

Thank you very much. There's no doubt about the fact that, you know, words mean something.

01:20:44

Otherwise, they wouldn't be there. And often when we're speaking in terms of celebrity, we're really talking in terms of showmanship.

01:21:00

And it's the way in which in the world of sport, in the world of movies, acting, in the world of music, and so on, generally the world of entertainment, you have individuals who are highly gifted, and that's not in question.

01:21:31

They rise above their fellows, and they then become the main attraction for where the press goes, where the money goes, and so on and so forth.

01:21:52

So they almost become independent of everybody else, because they are the major attraction.

01:22:07

Now, unfortunately, churches are part of their culture.

01:22:15

So, for instance, in 1 Corinthians 1, the church in Corinth was pitting the leaders one against the other.

01:22:28

I belong to Apollos, I belong to Peter, I belong to Paul, and so on.

01:22:34

It was because of the culture in which they were. It was a culture of great orators and great philosophers.

01:22:45

And these individuals had teachings on utopia, the kind of perfect world that they were seeking to bring about.

01:22:59

And as a result, the attitude in the world began to influence the attitude in the church.

01:23:08

And so Paul took the time to address it, so that the church could see that Paul was nothing,

01:23:17

Apollos was nothing, Peter was nothing. Ultimately, the one who was everything was

01:23:24

Jesus Christ. Now, we can apply that into today's culture.

01:23:31

So the entertainment culture has celebrities, and it's very easy for that spirit to become the attitude in the church as well.

01:23:45

So that we are no longer thinking primarily about Christ and Christ giving us gifts, and therefore these gifts are to serve the church.

01:23:57

Rather, we are thinking of these individuals who are gifted well above their fellows, as is the case in the entertainment world.

01:24:10

And we are now basically pitting them one against the other, just as it is out there in the world.

01:24:20

Now, exactly what Paul says to the Corinthians is what needs to be said to the modern church.

01:24:28

And it is ultimately the fact that that's worldliness. That's worldliness.

01:24:34

That's 1 Corinthians 3. That's worldliness. I can't speak to you as spiritual.

01:24:40

You are being merely of the world or fleshly.

01:24:46

That's what we need to say. So that we are really saying that when you go that way, you are losing the true strength of the church.

01:24:58

The strength of the church is a dependence on God. That you are a praying people, you are obeying the

01:25:09

Lord and His word, and loving Him, following Jesus Christ as head.

01:25:17

And that these individuals, as Paul says in 1 Corinthians 4, that they are but stewards.

01:25:29

That's all they are, stewards. They must be faithful, faithful in the use of their gifts, faithful in the church, faithful over the gospel.

01:25:39

But that's all they are. They are mere stewards. Thank you very much.

01:25:47

And isn't one of the true dangers that very frequently comes from the mindset of a

01:26:02

Christian viewing his favorite preacher, teacher, author, in a sense, as a celebrity, even though he might not ever use that word or might not even be conscious of that kind of high view, overly high view, exaggerated view, that he has of a mere man of God, as truly a man of God he may be, is that they cease being

01:26:38

Berean. They cease really making sure that what they are hearing from this person is backed up by the

01:26:48

God -breathed word of Scripture. Isn't that one of the most serious dangers involved here? Yes.

01:26:56

The example that was cited from 1 and 2 Corinthians, the

01:27:03

Corinthian church getting swept up with this personality contest,

01:27:08

I am of Paul, I am of Apollos, is a perfect example. And even I am of Christ, that is a category, a claim that is being rebuked.

01:27:22

And my only conclusion can be because the person is taking some kind of pride that he has a unique insight into Christ's teachings that the others don't have.

01:27:34

That's the only thing I could conclude would make that a term of derision.

01:27:40

Well, that's what I was going to say, is that this metaphor in Corinth, I think, reflects the fact that there's always been two types of Christianity for the last 2 ,000 years.

01:27:59

There is the superficial kind, and there is this underground minority of true believers that rarely, sometimes they fall into it temporarily, but rarely get swept up with what

01:28:18

I would call the popular movements of Christianity, where you have sales of all kinds of resources, books, tapes, all kinds of things.

01:28:33

You have the megaconferences, and so many liberal denominations and churches,

01:28:41

Charismatics, many others, get swept up in this personality cult, and they buy all of these resources of the most popular celebrity preachers of these movements.

01:28:58

So you have two types of Christianity, and the most popular movement, the superficial kind, has no power to it.

01:29:11

We do not serve in a kingdom of words. The kingdom of God is not in word, but in power and in demonstration of the

01:29:21

Holy Spirit. We cannot change hearts and lives by our celebrity

01:29:27

CD recordings and music. And another problem is that a lot of our professing

01:29:37

Christians, the majority of chaff that fills our churches today, have not had good examples of deep humility.

01:29:50

All they've seen is selfish ambition, and they've seen things of, you know, the external attractions, the fancy clothes, the cars, the materialism that so many pastors have.

01:30:08

And this revolving door of pastors for, on average, every three to five years, changing churches.

01:30:17

How can you disciple children over a lifetime if you're getting new parents every three to five years because the pastors are leaving, because the grass is greener, more money, a bigger church?

01:30:32

And so the majority of churches are following the world's emphasis on what's valuable.

01:30:42

And so many pastors today have this irresistible temptation that appeals after the weakness of the flesh to follow suit.

01:30:52

So we need good examples of that rare pastor who doesn't care what the majority do.

01:30:59

This man comes into church fully prepared to preach in the power of the

01:31:04

Holy Spirit. And that's why you have some churches and some denominations throughout history and today that you would never expect to be used of God mightily.

01:31:15

Could be any denomination, but God uses men after God's own heart.

01:31:23

Spirit -filled, doctrinally sound men who trust in God alone to build his ministry and not follow after the celebrity philosophy.

01:31:36

The true godly pastor doesn't take cues from the world. He's been taught by the

01:31:41

Spirit that our example is in Christ, who didn't follow the popular example of the

01:31:47

Pharisees. And so this is why we have this twofold

01:31:52

Christianity. And it goes back to the pastors developing a bad self -image of themselves following after the crowd.

01:32:02

And it goes back after, or it goes back to, believers, church members who don't have anything to compare to.

01:32:11

All they have is this example of a fleshly, joke -telling, worldly pastor whom they emulate in their own life.

01:32:21

And so we lack the example. Believers have not seen, most of them, a man controlled by the

01:32:29

Spirit, humble, broken at the feet of Christ, praying with power, showing through an example, through his moderation, through his tone of voice, through his gravity, through the reality of what the kingdom of God really is.

01:32:47

It's a kingdom that is existential in nature, in that everything we do almost that God calls us to as pastors is a matter of life and death.

01:33:01

It's not a joking matter. And so that's why we have these problems.

01:33:09

That's why you have 50 % of seminary graduates. I've seen survey results where 50 % of seminary graduates leave the ministry, the pastoral ministry, never to return after the first three years of their first pastor.

01:33:27

Because you can bring a man to seminary and fill his head with Bible knowledge, and that's good, and that's important, but you can't teach him how to be holy.

01:33:40

And that's the most important and effective element of ministry.

01:33:46

Not celebrity, not celebrity. God have mercy, because our pastors are going to give an account on Judgment Day.

01:33:55

And only the love and forgiveness and reconciling grace of Christ can, and he does, recover a pastor from losing his mind, from losing his senses temporarily, to go back to his first love.

01:34:14

Amen. Let's see, we have a listener named

01:34:21

Floyd, who is in Searcy, Arkansas. And Floyd asks,

01:34:30

Dr. Conrad Mbewe, I've understood that your church, where you are serving as pastor,

01:34:39

Kabwatha Baptist Church, has been very successful planting many other

01:34:44

Reformed Baptist churches on the African continent. Can you tell us something about this wonderful achievement that has been given to your congregation through the grace of Christ?

01:35:02

Well, thank you. I'm glad the way you have phrased it at the end, because that way glory goes to the right place.

01:35:12

It goes to Christ, who is the head of the church, who is also sitting on the throne of the entire universe, ensuring that he is leading and guiding his church and providing opportunity.

01:35:34

So with respect to ourselves, yes, when we began to get involved in the work of missions, which would have been in the early 1990s, there was a lot of resistance with the congregation.

01:35:47

We were small, probably around 60 to 80 members, maybe a little more, maybe a hundred.

01:35:57

We were still surviving on help from the church that planted us.

01:36:07

We were only two elders. We were still meeting in a rented community hall.

01:36:13

So the church membership was quite reluctant, but we still went ahead because we were convinced that Jesus does not say when you've got five elders, when you've got your own building, when you have all the money in the world, then you can do missions.

01:36:32

The Great Commission is for all of us. What role we play depends on the other opportunities that God gives us.

01:36:43

So we began around about 1992 or 1994.

01:36:50

Fast forward to now, as I said, we've been helped to plant churches across Zambia and across Africa, and we are continuing to do so.

01:37:04

The church's membership is no longer resistant. The church's leadership is very enthusiastic about this.

01:37:17

Let me mention two or three things. First of all, we run a missions conference.

01:37:25

It takes place February, March of every year. It enables us to concentrate on the theme of mission.

01:37:36

Our missionaries come back, they mingle with our members. It just has transformed our church's entire attitude towards mission.

01:37:50

The members of the church themselves feel a commitment to supporting these men who are in the field with their wives and their children as they are laboring away.

01:38:07

So that's been a real help to just keep the church's focus on this aspect.

01:38:19

We also are not simply wanting to plant churches. In other words, it's not simply places that call themselves churches.

01:38:30

We want to ensure that we have churches where the

01:38:37

Word of God is being taught faithfully, consistently.

01:38:44

We want to model churches that take worship seriously rather than entertainment.

01:38:53

That is not about mere numbers. This is about a place or a people that God is pleased with because they are

01:39:05

God -centered in their worship. We are fairly deliberate about churches that exercise church discipline.

01:39:15

This is nothing about the guy who is the founder and therefore everybody must bow to him.

01:39:25

There is a counter beat in the leadership. There is formative and restorative discipline as well.

01:39:34

So that's one aspect. The other that I'd like to also add here is that our church runs a pastoral internship program where we bring in nine individuals every year.

01:39:51

They spend the whole year with us, mingling with our members, mingling with our elders and deacons, seeing how our discipline in church is ordered and so forth.

01:40:06

And we have found that that does two things. Number one, it gives a three -dimensional view of the local church that is difficult to give somebody when they are undergoing training.

01:40:22

They tend to be learning things theoretically and then they abandon those theories and get back to their former ways of doing things.

01:40:33

But when they come and spend time with us, they see that what they are reading in the

01:40:38

Bible, what they were learning in college, is in three -dimensional views applicable.

01:40:49

It just transforms them and they are better able to do God's work.

01:40:54

But number two is that we as a church get to see individuals, get to know them, so that when we decide let's send somebody into catch planting work, say he's from Burundi, and then we are sending him to Burundi, we know that person.

01:41:17

We have spent a whole year with them, we know their church, they are recommended to us and so on.

01:41:26

So we found that our partnership program has become like a nursery field or bed from which we are reaping missionaries and sending them to Africa.

01:41:44

The church plants we have had largely in Botswana, Namibia, Zimbabwe, even the ones that we are talking about in Sierra Leone and Nigeria, all these are individuals that were once with us in our pastoral internship program.

01:42:06

We've just had one from Kenya, we've just had another one from Burundi last year, we've had one from the

01:42:15

Congo, another one from Uganda, we have another one from Cameroon.

01:42:24

So it's enabling us to know these men that we can then send to their own countries to go and establish churches there.

01:42:34

So it's in God's providence, it's placed us in such a place at such a time as this, and we are seeking to be faithful.

01:42:48

We work largely in conjunction with other churches because this demands a lot of money, and again we see ourselves playing the role of stewards of their resources as well.

01:43:02

Thank you very much for your question. Dr. Joe Jakiewicz, if you could remind our listeners who are involved in any realm of church leadership, whether they are pastor, elder, deacon,

01:43:22

Sunday school teacher, etc., how they can register for this event. Okay.

01:43:30

First of all, let me say I'm very excited about the missionary work that Kamwata Baptist Church, Dr.

01:43:39

Mbele, is doing for many, many decades in Zambia. Certainly they are a model for many other churches that are seeking to plant churches and establish a string of Reformed Baptist churches in their country.

01:43:56

And certainly we look to them as an example and model for us in our outreach to Nigeria, which is following behind Zambia.

01:44:04

But they're at the beginning of the stage of church planting with three or four fledgling works that have sprung up from the original church in Lagos.

01:44:15

And so press on, brother, press on, because it's a very great work. And I hope to visit

01:44:21

Zambia someday and see for myself how things are, because I've heard for years what good things are going on there.

01:44:36

So you've listened for the last couple of hours, and you've heard a lot about the pastor, his ups and downs, his weaknesses and strengths, his priorities, and so forth.

01:44:47

If you are a pastor, a church leader, such as a missionary, a teacher, a

01:44:53

Sunday school teacher, a deacon, an associate pastor, an elder, or student pastor, even student pastor, we have about 200 seats only available for this conference.

01:45:08

It is filling up pretty fast, but there's still two weeks left before the conference begins on January 16th through 18th in Long Island, New York, the town of Coram, C -O -R -A -M,

01:45:25

Coram, New York. And all the information about the conference, there are accommodations, hotel accommodations with special rates, there's two airports to fly into,

01:45:38

JFK and MacArthur, and everything will be given away free.

01:45:43

There's no registration fees. Dr. Conrad Mbewe, who you've heard on this show, is our keynote speaker, besides three other speakers, myself is another one.

01:45:58

I will be speaking about the shepherd's strength. Where does the pastor get his strength from?

01:46:05

Dr. Mbewe will handle three critical subjects regarding the minister as shepherd.

01:46:12

He'll deal with the shepherd's character, the shepherd's walk, and the shepherd's fruit, which he hasn't touched on yet, and there's probably not going to be enough time.

01:46:23

The shepherd's character, his walk, and his fruit, these are the essentials.

01:46:29

If you don't have these things established as a pastor, forget about it. Pastor Austin Huggins, the pastor of Mount Zion Bible Church, Chapel Library in Pensacola, deal with the shepherd's love.

01:46:42

How can we be pastors without the love of God? Come and hear about ministry and its importance.

01:46:49

And then Pastor Steve Hoffmeier, pastor of Trinity Baptist Church in Montville, New Jersey, one of the pastors there, will talk about another very important topic, the shepherd's sacrifice and care for the flock.

01:47:03

We have so many shepherds that have the sheep feed them when the shepherd should be feeding the sheep.

01:47:10

That was the problem enumerated by God about the false shepherds in Jeremiah or Ezekiel chapter 23,

01:47:18

I believe. Correct me, Dr. Mbewe, if I'm wrong. The pastors were feeding themselves and not the flock.

01:47:25

So come and hear on these topics, vital, vital topics for the pastoral ministry.

01:47:34

And then we have a book today. If you go to firstloveministries .org,

01:47:44

you can sign up for the conference.

01:47:49

If you're one of these church officers, readers that I mentioned, and everything is free of charge.

01:47:56

We have a pastor's pack of books we will give away to you that are designed to encourage the pastor in all of these areas that we spoke about, including one of our brand new publications,

01:48:09

First Love publications, titled The Minister as Shepherd. It is the best book on pastoring

01:48:18

I've ever read. It captures the essence of it. And I don't say that lightly because I'm very familiar with most pastoral literature of worth is value.

01:48:31

And then another book I want to mention that you can get free of charge on our website is called

01:48:41

Even If None. We've talked a lot about missions and evangelism and church planting on today's program.

01:48:50

First Love Publications has printed one of the best books on evangelism I've ever seen.

01:48:57

That's why I printed it and asked the author, Ryan Denton, Pastor Ryan Denton, for permission to print it.

01:49:05

Dr. Conrad Mbewe wrote the foreword to that book. I asked him years ago. It's one of our biggest movers, and you would want to know that,

01:49:13

Dr. Mbewe. That book, we can't keep it in print. We cannot keep it in print.

01:49:20

And there's a dearth of information, a lack of information on what biblical evangelism is all about.

01:49:27

We'll send you a free copy postage paid. If you go to firstloveministries .org and simply order it, you can order two books a month free of charge.

01:49:36

We don't sell anything, so don't try to pay for it because we won't send it to you. We've got to give it to you free of charge.

01:49:44

And so that book is called Even If None, written by Ryan Denton.

01:49:50

Also coming up, God willing, in the next couple of months, a very exciting development at First Love Ministries, our

01:49:58

African Hour. We want to reach out to our brethren throughout

01:50:04

Africa. So we've set aside a two -hour slot of time to give to four

01:50:09

African ministries, four churches, including Dr. Mbewe's church, Kambwada Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia, excuse me, which will rotate four programs back to back.

01:50:26

And I know our African brethren are going to be so encouraged by the list of four or five regular speakers we will have rotating on this program.

01:50:39

Stay tuned. If you're listening in Africa right now, you need to start spreading the word. Tune in to firstloveradio .org

01:50:47

where you're listening. Many of you are listening to this show on firstloveradio .org and not on Chris Arnzen's website,

01:50:55

Iron Sharpens Iron, though many of you are listening on the Iron Sharpens Iron website. But that program should be available, hopefully, within the next couple of months.

01:51:07

Very excited about it. And so go to firstloveministries .org.

01:51:13

There's a lot there. Surf that site and get the free books. Today the free books we're giving away are

01:51:21

The Minister as Shepherd. Please purchase, not purchase, get one and give it to your pastor.

01:51:28

You will be doing him a big favor and helping him to expand his vision and understanding about what it really means to shepherd the flock.

01:51:39

Get one for every elder. If you want more than one copy, send an email on the website, address it to Joe Jackowitz, and I'll make sure you get multiple copies for all the elders of your church.

01:51:54

That's firstloveministries .org, firstloveministries .org.

01:52:01

Well, thank you so much, Pastor Joe. And I would like each of you now, starting with Dr.

01:52:09

Mbewe, to give us about three minutes of summary of what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners regarding the subject of The Minister as Shepherd.

01:52:23

Dr. Mbewe, if you could begin. Yes, I will be brief.

01:52:29

Although this is meant to just whet people's appetites, I would encourage them to come over for the full meal in the middle of January at the conference, the

01:52:46

First Love Pastors Conference at Hope Reformed Baptist Church, and I am truly praying that they will be blessed.

01:52:56

The main issue is that the fruit or the impact of a pastor's ministry is based on the health with which that pastor is walking with God.

01:53:24

We are not actors. We are not professionals in that sense.

01:53:32

We are primarily servants of the Lord. And as we learn to walk with him through his word, through his prayer, and through prayer, our lives are being impacted by God himself, and that then flows into the lives of the people around us, who may also be unconverted, but more so the people that we shepherd, we pastor, we look after as the people of God.

01:54:15

Let's get back to the basics. That's the main point. Let's get back to the basics.

01:54:23

What happens when you leave Bible college and you have your view of success, and you get into the working world, into the work of ministry, and that so -called success soon gets heat from every side and every angle because you're not getting the numbers that you were hoping you would.

01:54:51

The tendency is to start taking shortcuts, start looking for the things that seem to work, and in the process you lose the biblical path.

01:55:07

This conference is basically a call back to the biblical path, that God's power works through God's means, and we must keep on that well -rooted path across Christian history, until we hear our

01:55:32

Master say, well done, good and faithful shepherd. Thank you.

01:55:38

Amen. And Brother Joe, you have three minutes. Amen, Pastor Mbewe.

01:55:45

In 1 Timothy 4 .16, the Apostle Paul said, Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine.

01:55:53

Continue in them, for in doing this, you will save both yourself and those who hear you.

01:56:00

The wise Apostle tells young Pastor Timothy, first take heed to yourself and then to the flock.

01:56:13

In doing this, notice he says, first you will save yourself.

01:56:19

In other words, the pastor's ministry to himself is extremely important.

01:56:28

It is our most important ministry, if I could say that. That's really another way of saying what

01:56:34

Pastor Conrad just said about walking with God. And however many would have us believe that the most vital ministry of a pastor is evangelism or discipleship, visitation, counseling, or even preaching.

01:56:50

These are important, especially preaching. But not the most important, because power and strength for all these come from his ministry to himself vertically with God.

01:57:05

And so just a few of many reasons

01:57:11

I can give to prove this is that we've learned over and over again, brethren, pastor brethren, have we not learned over and over again the ineffectiveness of natural gifts unadorned by the

01:57:29

Spirit? Haven't we learned the fruitlessness of a majority of evangelical pastors have very little or no spiritual fruit?

01:57:39

Haven't we learned the failure of all methods and techniques to produce spiritual fruit?

01:57:47

And so we first need to take heed to ourselves because the principle is that God uses men, not methods, not techniques, men who are broken and humbled and men of faith trusting in his

01:58:05

Spirit to work no matter how long they have to wait on endowment from power on high.

01:58:11

And so brethren, it is the ministry to ourself first that will end up saving ourselves and producing this kind of spiritual fruit because as a minister of the

01:58:27

Spirit, we're in a new covenant, not an old covenant minister or minister of the letter.

01:58:34

We are new covenant ministers of the Spirit and dispensers of spiritual things.

01:58:40

And so come to the conference, go to firstloveministries .org, sign up, register.

01:58:48

We're looking forward to meeting you and sharing with you together in fellowship. Thank you so much.

01:58:53

I really hope to see all of my family, friends, and loved ones and brethren in Christ who can make it to Quorum, Long Island on the 16th, 17th, and 18th of January.

01:59:08

And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater