January 1, 2025 Show with Dr. Conrad Mbewe AND Dr. Joe Jacowitz on “The Minister As Shepherd”

Iron Sharpens Iron Introduction and the Theme of the Program

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania. It's iron sharpens iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us. Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation To make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours. And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions, and now here's your host Chris Arnzen.

Chris Arnzen’s Health Update and New Year Greeting

Happy New Year, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania. Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth. Who are listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio dot-com. This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio.

Wishing you all a happy Wednesday. On this first day of January 2025. I want to first of all thank the hundreds of you Who have been? Confirming with me that you have been praying steadfastly for my health as.

Many if not most of you know I've been in and out of the hospital. I just spent seven straight days in the hospital including Christmas.

And.

Was delighted to be finally discharged. And also feeling much better than when I first entered into the hospital with the the worst symptoms so far of congestive Heart failure. I could hardly breathe and Called my doctor.

He said get to the emergency room and that was. That was over a week ago. That was before Christmas and Thanking God to be home and Thanking God to be conducting this first live broadcast in quite a while as I said and especially Because it is the first day of 2025 and I am so thrilled to have two very dear friends on the program.

First of all, my dear friend. Dr. Conrad Mbewe. Who is not only the founding chancellor of African Christian University but he's also the pastor of Kwabwata Baptist Church in Lusaka Zambia Africa. I have known dr. Mbewe since 2000 and 2000 I'm sorry earlier than hat since 1996.

I have known dr. Mbewe because he was the the very the very the very first American church where dr. Mbewe preached ever Outside of Continental Africa the first.

A.

American church where he preached Was the church where I was formerly a member Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick, New York Was 1986 and we have remained close friends ever since.

He's been on this program many times since we have been at the same conferences on many occasions since. He has been one of my Iron Sherpa Zion radio free pastors luncheon speakers and I'm looking forward to God willing having him back to do the same and We are delighted to announce That dr. Mbewe is going to be on Long Island, New York my former home From January 16th through the 18th preaching at Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Coram, New York and that is the 2025 first love pastors conference on the theme the minister a shepherd.

Joining dr. Mbewe is Going to be my friend pastor Joe Jacklets founder of first love ministries and also one of his colleagues with first love ministries Austin Huggins is also going to be Preaching at this conference and I understand we've also been joined or We've had in addition to the roster pastor Steve Hoffmeier of Trinity Baptist Church of Montville, New Jersey, but first of all Welcome back to Iron Sherpa Zion radio my longtime dear friend.

Dr. Conrad Mbewe.

African Christian University and Kabwata Baptist Church

Thank you, thank you very much for having me Chris. I'm looking forward to the time we will have together.

Thank you. And could you tell our listeners something more about Coba Wata Baptist Church? In Lusaka Zambia and also about African Christian University.

Well, first of all, what about this church? Commenced in the early 1980s. I began pastoring there.

In.

1987 it's very involved in church planting across Zambia and across Africa. We thus far planted about 40 plus churches. Half of which are now completely independent with their own elderships. Our membership is just over 400 now.

Yeah, that's what I would say there and it's a very sort of outreach Oriented congregation. In the capital city of Lusaka, it was established by the Sacra Baptist Church.

Then.

The African Christian University was planted by a number of Reformed Baptist churches in Zambia to be a way to disciple our young adults with a Biblical worldview as they are being trained in their professional fields.

So we have agriculture business Education and theology as the four schools that are currently Enrolling students and seeing them through our theological school also goes as far as a master's degree in pastoral theology.

So that's what I would say. We have roughly a hundred plus students in total in all those four schools and Yeah, it's just encouraging to to be there day by day Molding these young lives and seeing them in due season Graduating to impact not only Zambia, but also the continent of Africa.

Thank you.

Well praise God. Do you have a website for both? Kaboata Baptist Church and also for African Christian University for the.

Kaboata Baptist Church, it is simply that same word kaboata Baptist Church as one word dot-com and then for the African Christian University, it is seu.

Dash.

Zambia Dot-com. But also if you just Google those two names, you should be able to see their websites as an option for you to click on.

First Love Ministries and Its Worldwide Outreach

Great, well my friend at Joe Jackowitz founder of first love ministries which is also the ministry that runs a first love radio where you Hear iron sharpens iron radio daily live streaming. Pastor Joe is also pastor of Christ Bible Church in Dublin, California and Welcome back to iron sharpens iron radio, brother.

Thank You Chris glad to be with you.

Well tell our listeners for those of them that are not aware about first love ministries.

First love ministries has its roots back in 1988 when my wife and I started sending out Christian literature from our kitchen table as Well as our local church started going door-to-door passing out literature.

Since that time we have distributed almost 500 ,000 books Free of charge at pastors conferences and Bible conferences all around the world in Africa Asia Europe. Not too much in South America. We're still breaking in there.

We have more opportunities than we actually have. Resources right for God to provide. But all of our resources whether it be conferences literature.

Teaching.

Registration at conferences is free of charge. We've never charged one penny for anything In over 30 years of ministry at first love ministries first love ministries consists of four separate ministries each one Focuses on the proclamation of the Word of God.

We have first love radio that is proclaiming the Word of God through radio first love missions. Where we have five branches of first love missions in five different countries such as Nigeria Nepal the Philippines India and Kenya.

And in our missions we Have conferences usually two three times a year in each location and We again distribute literature and the local church branch that we're affiliated with follows up with the attendees and disciples them and encourages them to attend church and of course become real Christians to become saved and so that is the ministry of the word through missionary outreach.

And then we have the third missionary or ministry of the word which is Teaching through Grace Bible University we have an AA degree in Associates Arts degree we offer in biblical studies we're working on now the next degree program, which will be a bachelor degree in theology and All of our courses are provided free of charge.

We're working on getting an internet version set up so that Men can be trained online throughout the world free of charge to wishing free to be pastors and Then so that's the the Word of God proclaimed through Bible study courses Which is more discipleship and teaching focused To lay a foundation of theology and doctrine in the students life.

And then fourthly we have First love Grace Bible University, I mentioned we have first love missions first love radio and first love publications. The one I started with like I said, we've distributed over a couple of million tracks and booklets in over 500 ,000 books worldwide at our conferences and just in promiscuous evangelism through our branches and.

And.

Also, all of our conferences are free of charge including the food all of our Preachers, we usually send a a panel or a team of preachers Reform Baptists anywhere from two to five or six preachers to each one of these nations two or three times a year to hold conferences and We're always training and encouraging new pastors to join the team.

So we train as many Seasoned prep pastors to do missions work. I also train pastors on doing radio. So whenever I lead a team, I always buy airtime at the most listen to a radio station and We train this team of pastors on how to do live radio and do Q &A sessions and spontaneous teaching and Q &A's on the radio as well, so We're drawing from our Our radio experience to do that.

As a matter of fact, we're working on a radio program with Dr. Mbewe here with him and four other Preachers from Africa a fellow and a preacher and a good friend of his and a friend of mine Pastor Ronald.

Help me pronounce the last name brother.

By the fungwa.

Confirm what?

Fungwa Cali fungwa.

There you go him and dr. Mbewe to to represent Zambia and several other preachers one from Kenya one from Malawi and one and one from Nigeria so we're calling it the African hour. It's actually going to be two hours of programming devoted to highly respected African preachers and pastors that we hold in high esteem that will be proclaiming the word and will be laying down a foundation for both pastors and believers in Africa of What biblical preaching really is if we can do this on the air to a radio station?

To a worldwide radio station and ministry like first love radio, which is heard 24 7 worldwide. We cannot only teach and educate listeners with the word but we can Train pastors on how to preach. Instead of focusing on money and material things we can identify the real essence of Preaching and pastoral ministry.

So we're working on that and I encourage our first love radio listeners to stay tuned because Hopefully in the next couple of months here. There'll be a very big announcement about this to our radio slot on first love radio so we have first love publications missions grace Bible University and first love publications all of this is focusing on the word Proclaimed to radio Bible study courses missions and the printed page.

I'm also the pastor of Christ Bible Church in Pleasanton not Dublin, but Pleasanton, California.

Dublin's your mailing address.

Yes, that's okay, brother. 30 miles east of San Francisco we are located and We are constantly in battle with forces in this area that don't embrace the gospel. But that's normal for true Christianity wherever we are.

But we've been here since 1990 when the church was first planted. Our website for the church is Christ Bible Church org. Christ Bible Church org and of course first love is first love ministries org. First love ministries Org and we have two books to offer free of charge today.

Based on this program and the interview that Chris is going to do with dr. M. Bayway and myself we're offering today the minister as shepherd By Charles Jefferson, which is the book we're giving away at the pastors conference coming up in two weeks.

So if you're a pastor or a church leader, there's still time to register. For the pastors conference you can squeak under the wire, but you need to do that within the next week or two. It's first love ministries org.

That's first love ministries org and on the home page there's a link to register and a description of the conference and The speakers including dr. M. Bayway and myself and you'll get all the information About it, that's first love ministries org and we do have Two books a month that you can order online free of charge.

It will be sent to you postage paid.

That's first love ministries org and I just want to remind you that the conference is Being held from Thursday, January 16th coming up very quickly through.

Through.

Saturday January 18th, and that is at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York and The website for Hope Reformed Baptist Church is Hope Reformed Li .com. That's Hope Reformed Li .com.

And you will have all the information on the directions and so on. And These folks Have provided for me meaning Hope Reformed Baptist Church. They have provided for me a home away from home whenever I Travel back to my old stomping grounds where I was born and raised.

Long Island, New York always love visiting and worshiping with Pastor Rich Jensen Pastor Anthony Eubenio and Pastor Christopher McDowell and the Saints at Hope Reformed Baptist Church. Can I jump in for a second real quick?

Go ahead. I.

Neglected to mention that you are going to be the emcee and the moderator of the conference. So I'm just so blessed to partner with Iron Sharpens Iron and yourself with First Love for you to Be right there with us.

If you've been listening to Iron Sharpens Iron on First Love radio Chris and I partner in hosting this program. It's a privilege to do so every day Monday to Friday from 4 to 6 p .m East Coast time but You'll be able to talk with Chris and I, Dr. Mbewe and all the speakers there.

The other thing is the second book we have to offer today is Holiness by J .C. Ryle. That's Holiness by J .C. Ryle, a classic on the subject. If you are A member of a church or you attend a church you need to get a hold of this book for your pastor.

That is The Minister as Shepherd. You can order it on FirstLoveMinistries .org. The Minister as Shepherd is the best book on pastoring capturing the essence of pastoring that I have ever read and I have Over a hundred books on pastoral theology and pastoring in my library.

This is the best and it's just a little paperback that from written by an author I never heard of when somebody handed it to me about 25 years ago. But it really captures the core work of a pastor, which he's a shepherd.

He's not a celebrity. He's a shepherd and you need to give your pastor this book. We'll give it to you so you can give it to him FirstLoveMinistries .org.

Conference Sponsorships and Commercial-Free Broadcast Announcement

Great, and by the way, I have some important news for our listeners today. This is a very unusual broadcast today in that It is one of the few times you will ever hear a Two-hour Iron Sharpens Iron radio episode that is completely commercial free.

There'll be no commercials during this one episode of the program. And this program will be repeated multiple times on First Love radio because they're really trying to get the word out. About this upcoming conference.

Can you just very briefly and please take me literally on that? Tell us about the other speakers that are going to be on the roster there at the conference brother.

So we have four speakers for our first Conference. We've been hosting pastors conferences for 30 years in missions in doing missions work, but we've never done one in the United States. We've done them all overseas.

So this is a very unique Situation for us. It's our first pastors conference. The four speakers are of course, dr. Conrad and Bayway.

I.

Highly esteem and respect his ministry. We do kind of work together in supporting a keychurch in Nigeria in Lagos Nigeria sovereign grace Bible Church pastored by Tony Okoro and Pastor OC and So we both support that work and our and through that work we've seen the work in church planting and church growth Mushroom over the last four or five years in particular in Nigeria.

Dr. And Bayway's ministry also has extended his reach of church planting in Nigeria to the capital city of Nigeria as well as other areas. So we're very blessed to have dr. And Bayway To be our conference speaker main key speaker and So you've heard his his introduction On then pastor Austin Huggins who is a very very close friend going back many years.

Over ten years he is the vice president of first club mysteries working closely with. He's accompanied me at many many foreign mission trips Preaching alongside of me at pastors conferences. He has just recently three or four months ago Accepted a call to Mount Zion Bible Church in Pensacola to co-pastor with pastor Jeff.

There.

Jeff Paul in Pensacola.

Sorry, Jeff Pollard. Jeff Pollard. Yeah, that's that's great. No, I have not. I did not know that before today.

Yes so.

Pastor Austin has been there now for several months. He oversees Mount Zion as well as Chapel library. Many of your listeners Chris are familiar with Chapel library Which we have partnered with for over 30 years beginning with Pastor LR Shelton jr. Who was a mentor and a very good friend for many years till he passed away.

But.

Be there. And also pastor Steve Hoffmeier. Pastor Hoffmeier is one of the pastors at Trinity Baptist Church which was formerly pastored by Al Martin for almost 50 years. A Pastor Steve served on the mission field in the Philippines.

For over 35 years. He and his wife they planted I think they planted moonwalk Bible Church and Metro Manila area and from there they Planted and reached out to other areas of the Philippines and they have upwards of 20 or more other churches.

That they planted from there. Pastor Steve has been back in the United States. Now serving as a pastor at Trinity Baptist Church in Montville, New Jersey. Now for I don't know five or six years I could be wrong on that by a year or two.

Pastor Steve and I happened to go to Trinity ministerially ministerial Academy together beginning in 1978. We were both interviewed by the elders that same day and we started the Academy to get. So I'm looking forward to a reunion with Steve because We've kept in touch with we kept track of each other not necessarily in close touch to almost over 40 years.

But we'll get to meet other again. Since said the since about 80. Again here at the quorum conference on January 16th.

Great. Now is pastor Dave Chansky still there at Montville's. I Believe so. Okay, great. Well, yeah that church has a lot of very fond memories That I cherish.

And.

Looking forward to meeting Steve for the first time and I'm looking forward to being at this conference and em seeing it.

The Minister as Shepherd Versus the Minister as Theologian

One.

Thing I want to bring out to highlight right away is I don't think that too much could be said about the importance of the theme of The of the conference the minister as shepherd. And I know that I may get Folks upset with me.

Who hear what I'm about to say, I might even have Either one or both of you a little upset at me for what I'm about to say. But I think that perhaps even amongst Reformed Churches especially The minister as Shepherd has taken a Distant second place in importance tragically to the minister as theologian and I have said increase with with the increasing frequency lately in my life.

That if I had the choice between being under the authority of the shepherds of a local church And the choice that I had left me Forced to join a church that was less theologically pristine. Obviously, I'm not going to ever join a church that I believe is heretical.

But.

The.

Joining and putting myself under the authority of shepherds in a church where the shepherds truly do Live up to that description a title. They have shepherds hearts They are Shepherds perhaps even first and foremost in The way someone would immediately Begin to describe them after meeting them and knowing them.

That is a more important circumstance than a Minister or having a minister or pastor who is a brilliant theologian. One of the reasons for that in my opinion is That it is far easier as a Christian Living out your daily life in the cave.

To.

Find Theological tools and resources outside of the four walls of your church Where you could bolster your own Education and and that kind of a thing become more theologically astute grow in your Knowledge of doctrine and so forth.

That kind of thing is more easily found outside of your church Than someone who is an actual shepherd of your soul. Now I'm gonna ask with a little bit of sweat Trickling down my forehead hoping I haven't offended dr. M. Bayway.

But what do you think of that statement? I made?

Yeah.

I think first of all, the reality is that we must never divide. To just make sure things. We must never divide between The Shepherd the pastor or the minister being a theologian with him being.

A.

Shepherd in terms of Love care looking out for the people of God and so on primarily because the primary way in which a pastor shepherds the people of God is Through the truth and more specifically biblical truth.

So.

Yes, we do tend sometimes to have individuals who are largely theologians and Don't have a real love and care for the people of God. Ending up being the primary leaders of churches and yes, I agree we we we do a great disservice to the people of God, but the ideal situation is that we must have individuals that combine those two realities.

Then we have a very healthy.

Church leadership. Yes, of course even my I'm very blessed and privileged being a member of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, which is actually a new church plant Pastored by Simon O'Mahony who does have both of those qualities and descriptions Accurately Identifying him as an overseer a pastor.

He is not only extremely sound theologically, but he has the true humble heart of a shepherd so I am privileged with that Situation being a member of a church With such an overseer and of course since it's a new church, so Obviously since we are Reformed Baptist, we eventually hope that the Lord will add To the eldership so we will have a plurality of elders.

We also only have one deacon at the moment a fine man of God Dan Wolford. Since we are so new but as I kept repeating the phrase privileged. There are people that I have met on many occasions over the years who aren't so privileged and The only reason I brought up what I said is for those unfortunate circumstances where Someone is living in an area where they've got a choice that has to be made where The heart of their shepherd may Have have to come into priority over their pastor being a theologian.

That's that's the only reason I brought that up. And Pastor Joe Jackowitz, obviously you believe this theme is important because you've named Your conference after this theme. This is the theme that is driving the conference.

Tell us more about why you chose this theme the minister of Shepherd.

The Shepherd’s Character, Walk, and Fruit

Because Based on what you said and dr. Mbaywe I think it's the most neglected attribute of a pastor today. As you suggested the pastor can easily focus on his mechanical gifts his intellectual gifts and Run with those to the neglect of his spiritual Responsibilities his spiritual gifts and his walk with God.

The role of the pastor as a shepherd as A theologian and as a preacher are inseparable. The true pastor must be all three of them simultaneously and It it all. To be a shepherd Means that you're using the truth sound doctrine and you're preaching gifts and skills to.

To.

Shepherd the flock and the pastor becomes a Vehicle he becomes a channel through which Holy Ghost driven ministry Emanates from his heart his spirit his mind his life to this other person, but if he's not equipped and prepared as a shepherd to Channel to be a channel of spiritual life using the truth Using his gifts as a preacher and teacher and disciple maker.

Then he's shutting down that ministry that the sheep need that indispensable ministry to transform them into the image of Christ through a shepherding ministry and All these other tools even though they are very spiritual in nature the knowledge of the truth sound doctrine and the highly developed Stirring up of the gift that is in you through preaching and teaching those are intended to transform ultimately The lives of your members through being a shepherd spending one-on-one time with your sheep Counseling them for hours with blood sweat and tears and genuine care as as Conrad has mentioned.

It all comes down to shepherding to be able to communicate the truth to communicate Supernatural truths which must be communicated through a supernatural ministry and a supernatural Animated man of God by the Spirit of God.

In the Reformed community and churches we've Desperately neglected to teach and to emphasize the ministry of the Holy Spirit because that is essential for a minister to be an effective shepherd and So that's why we chose minister a shepherd as a theme.

We're trying to call pastors back To shepherding sheep today. We can do so many things through technology as pastors. We can proclaim the word. We can do things on a large scale through promotions and marketing and through so many words.

But ways but no one can replace the ministry of the Spirit of God Who has a mind of his own he's sovereign the wind blows where it wills. You don't know where it's going and you must connect with him.

You must walk with God through the power of the Spirit to bring back down a fresh anointing of God upon you so that you can Supernaturally shepherd the sheep and so we're calling pastors back to this essential duty.

Among the three responsibilities main responsibilities of a pastor.

Well some of the subcategories underneath the main theme of The minister is shepherd That have been given to you brother and Bayway Include The the first one I believe is the first one that you were going to be Addressing and that is.

The.

The shepherds walk. Now explain what you mean by that and Why is this such an essential element? To a Man of God meeting your qualifications for a shepherd.

Absolutely, Kristen when he's addressing is the shepherds character that's going to be on the 16th Thursday night.

Then the next shepherds walk, but any way you want to do it. Well, why don't we start with the character then? Conrad.

Okay, yeah, well, I think first of all, it's important for any pastor to realize that A shepherd is somebody who must be walking ahead of his flock. The concept of Shepherd and sheep if we can go to that realm of life is One that speaks in terms of a shepherd being Who is not walking behind the the flock of sheep.

But he is ahead of them and they are hearing his voice as Jesus said and they are following him. That's a physical example. In spiritual reality it is the fact that the The shepherd is ahead of the sheep in terms of maturation in terms of the way in which Christ is formed in him and that way It is not saying to the flock That's the way you should live.

Follow that over there is say follow my example as I follow the example of Christ and So if you look for instance at the qualifications for eldership in the The letter of Paul to both Timothy and Titus You'll find that that the character that is being brought out there is one of real spiritual maturity and The one who's going to be a true shepherd of God's people must be quite deliberate about that.

That.

Once I Soil my reputation I.

I.

Disqualify myself. I can't continue leading God's people simply because of my gifts. I I must be one who is like Christ among them. So it's really that aspect that is brought out that will be brought out as I handle the character of the shepherd.

Now do you think that far too often When we witness a Truly gifted talented individual who is in public ministry. When they fall in such a way that where they are no longer above reproach. Whether it has something to do with Very serious financial sin or sexual sin or other similar scandalous sins where the reputation is irreparable.

The damage that has been done to the reputation is irreparable. Too often. Not only perhaps does the person himself The fallen shepherd but also those That have been extraordinarily blessed by his ministry.

Very often they act as if Christ needs them to successfully continue in kingdom work to Spread the gospel and You know Increase the numbers of the flock. And and we could go on and on and on but we can never look as at a sinner saved by grace, even if the person is Truly regenerate and not just a false convert who has been A complete charlatan, even if they have been.

A.

Genuinely born-again. Brother who has fallen. We cannot look at them as indispensable, can we.

Yeah, well if you're asking me, I think the point there is first of all. Yes, it's true that once as a shepherd as a leader among God's people once you begin to look at yourself as Indispensable that you are, you know so needed by both the the great shepherd of the sheep, which is Christ and The sheep themselves that you're you're setting yourself up for a fall because that's pride.

And pride is Something that comes before a fall. I think all of us must consider ourselves as greatly privileged to have been called of God to steward the Gospel and also to be a steward of the people themselves.

So.

We must never think that God so much Badly needs us that it does not matter how we are living. We we must still continue. I think as I've already said When Peter speaks to the elders in the scattered church.

This is what he says. He says I exhort the elders among you as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ. This is first Peter 5 this one. As well as the partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed.

Shepherd the flock of God that is at the man you. Exercising oversight. Not under compulsion, but willingly as God would have you. Not for shameful gain, but eagerly. Now, this is the point I want to make.

Not Domineering over those in your church, but being examples to the flock. That's crucial. Being examples to the flock and that's where your character is so important you you must want to To live a life that is sanctified.

That's godly. You must have a genuine thirst for holiness the kind of holiness that manifests itself even in the domestic sphere. So that your wife and your children can see that as a husband and father you are genuinely a godly man and that pulls Into the life of the congregation.

But certainly never thinking that you are.

Indispensable. By the way folks I do want to take this time before I forget to do it later. Especially since we are airing a commercial free program today I do want to give credit to whom credit is due as far as new sponsors of This program that are going to enable us to continue to exist in 2025.

First of all the aforementioned Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania pastored by Simon O'Maney the congregation where I am a member. For more details on Trinity Reformed Baptist Church go to TRBC Carlisle .org TRBC Carlisle .org and That's Trinity Reformed Baptist Church of Carlisle Pennsylvania also.

The The.

Actually the bank or the Federal Credit Union where my deacon Daniel Wolford is the CEO.

Lebanon.

Federal Credit Union. They are also a new sponsor of Iron Trump and Zion radio for the entirety of 2025. And their website is Lebanon FCU org. Lebanon FCU org. And last but not least I want to Praise God that we heard the great news just a few days ago That Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia has renewed their annual sponsorship of Iron Trump and Zion radio.

And we just thank God for their generosity towards this program. We thank Pastor Joe and his precious wife Becky Moorcraft for being such a strong catalyst and convincing the Saints there to financially support this broadcast year after year.

And We just want to thank God publicly for them and the website for Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia. All right is Heritage Presbyterian Church calm. Heritage Presbyterian Church calm.

Well, if you could Pastor Joe Jackowitz highlight the messages that you are Going to be addressing in regard to the minister of Shepherd that you believe are essential especially for pastors to seek to learn more about and emulate and so on to make sure that they are Reflecting the qualities and character of such a shepherd.

If I could can I add one thing to what dr Mbay was said about the forces character. Because he's getting me stirred up before the conference.

And.

As every as every pastor should be adhering these very sensitive things relating to the effectiveness of his ministry and. But I would I would like to briefly pause here and just let your listeners know About the conference because we may have some pastors who are interested in getting more information the theme of our pastors conference beginning on January 16th, there's still time to register.

By the way is the minister a shepherd and the messages will be drawn from biblical principles and wisdom to size the importance of character and compassion in the pastors ministry. Exactly with dr Mmm, then they way just described pardon me.