Meeting Again After Prior Conflict

Apologia Studios

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00:00

Did you read the comments on there? I never answered any of the comments. No, no, I don't usually look at the comment section.

00:06

It's not cool to answer your own comments saying, listen, that's not what I meant. But anyway, I said to myself,

00:13

I'd love to have another chat with you about our conversation. Okay. It's been quite a while. Yeah, it's been a while.

00:19

Half an hour. Yeah, it did. It was like at least a half an hour conversation. And yeah, the point

00:27

I think that everybody took me up on wrong on people was that they said, I said, that your sin doesn't send you to hell.

00:35

That it's not believing in Jesus. I didn't say, I didn't mean it. One guy said, I don't think he actually meant that.

00:42

What I'm saying was that everybody is condemned already. Everybody in the world is condemned. Jesus said the world stands condemned already.

00:49

Because of what? Because of their sin. Right. That's what I was saying.

00:55

Yeah, and what I'm saying is that everybody's going there, but it's ultimately not having him as your

01:02

Lord. That's what stops it going. Oh, yeah. We're in agreement. Of course.

01:07

Yeah, and we won't be saved unless we have Christ, believing in him. Imagine me after all this time.

01:14

I know. Dublin's a small place, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But anyway, the sound quality wasn't great.

01:21

No, something was wrong that night, yeah. I did watch one video of you of a guy you met on the boardwalk with a beard.

01:27

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. A stoner fella. Yeah, yeah. And I said to myself, he's giving him a lot of leeway.

01:33

You gave him a lot of leeway. Because he was an unbeliever. Well. He wasn't a professing believer.

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So? No, I think we had lots of grace for each other that night.

01:48

Yeah, yeah. He was cool. I'm not cool. Oh, no, I think you're hip.

01:53

No, I think you're hip. I think you're a hip dude. No, that wasn't it. No, I appreciated the conversation. And the reason we put this up is to hopefully show gracious interaction, but on important subjects.

02:06

You see, yeah. You see, the thing about it was, I think my main point, in a nutshell, was that if women in society, and society in general, has been conditioned to believe that, like, you heard,

02:25

I don't know if you heard all the speeches. A little bit. I heard a little bit at the end. There was a woman there talking about who had an abortion. And she said she came out, and she has admitted she has it because of the shame and everything else she went through.

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And she said it's time for women to stand up and to hide it. And she talked about her own suffering, mentally, physically, everything.

02:46

Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Emotionally, spiritually. And she said she was sold the line by the doctor, it's a clump of cells.

02:51

Right. But she said everything in me knew, you know. Right. What I was saying was that she said that I had to accept that, and every woman has to accept that if they believe the clump of cells lie, they're just using it as an excuse, you know.

03:09

Right, because they know. And they do know. Yeah, they know. And you're right. And what I'm saying is, though, at different ages and different people, and, you know, if they think, the doctor can say to them, listen, at six weeks or whatever, there's absolutely no life, you know.

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Right, right. If they don't have a spiritual leaning as well, if they're atheists, and they think, oh, yeah, it's okay, you know.

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And I'm trying to say you have to break that down completely. Amen. Amen. I agree with you.

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Before you call it murder, you have to say to people, show them beyond the recognition of a doubt.

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And I was just trying to say to you that in some people's minds, there still is that doubt or maybe false belief that it's a clump of cells.

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And it's our job to break through that. I know. That's all I was saying. And then I'll stand and say, well, now you clearly know.

03:58

Do you know what I mean? Right, right. Because I was saying that. There's always noise in our videos.

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I was saying that there are women like that woman there who would struggle and would feel the remorse and the guilt.

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Do you know what I mean? Because they played around with the idea that it is a clump of cells. And they played around in their heart.

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I was kind of trying to say to you that night that something in me, in a sense of graciousness, looking that I know they're suffering guilt, would feel bad about going up to say you're a murderer.

04:36

No, no. Do you know what I'm saying? No, and I appreciate that. Let me make some clarity. Sure, sure, sure.

04:42

So to clarify, I have at least six women in my church that have had abortions.

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And I think some have had upwards of four. Oh, yeah, yeah. And I can tell you, brother, right now,

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I have never walked up to any of them and said, you're a murderer, you're a murderer.

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What we have said and what they accept is abortion is murder. And the only way to be forgiven of that sin is

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Christ. And when He forgives you, He never ever brings it against you. It is washed away.

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But what we try to say is that the only way we can fight against abortion consistently is to call it what it is.

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It's murder. And so can I give you one example? Yeah. Tobias.

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Her last name is Tobias. She's the president. You know her? No, no, no. It's a biblical character. Oh, yeah. She's the president of National Rights of Life in America.

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And they're also helping you guys here. Oh, really? So if you look on my page, you'll see we did an interview with her.

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Okay. And she said that they don't want to call abortion murder. They don't? That group?

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That group. Or organization? And they said women who have abortions are victims. And they said, we want it to stop, of course, but we do not believe, we believe the woman is as much a victim as the child.

05:54

She actually said that. We believe the woman is as much a victim as the child. Now, watch this. Take her position, which

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I think you and I would have, that's a weak position. When you go into the legislator and you say to a legislator, sir,

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I want you to stop all abortions, and they say, well, why? Well, because women and children are victims in abortion.

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Yeah. And the legislator says, well, is it a moral failing? Is it injustice? And the woman goes, well, no, it's not murder.

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They're just victims. Yeah. Legislators can't legislate against that. Yeah, I know. I know. And that's the failure that we have.

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And listen, I got to tell you this. We're not coming to you and to your country and to your country and saying to you, hey, you listen to us.

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We're coming to you as broken people saying we failed. As a church, we failed.

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And we see those failures now as being a failure of the church not being loving enough and truthful enough with our culture to say, we love you for Jesus' sake.

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This is what you're doing. Please let us help you turn away from it. What we've done is we've actually let people take over the pro -life movement that have said, no, no, no.

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Don't use Christian language. Don't make it about sin and Christ. And that's what we believe our failure is.

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And so when we're here saying, hey, to Christians, you've got the answer. It's in that book.

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Use that. There is one thing. I think it was up to the 60s.

07:19

Yeah, there was a man here called Reggie Fry. Sounds familiar. His family owned a huge companies of sweets, right?

07:28

Fry's chocolate cream. Oh, wow. And they were like very wealthy. And I believe

07:35

I was told there was a time when he knew personally every Christian in Dublin. That's how small the numbers were.

07:41

Really? Yeah. So there's a context to it.

07:51

So the evangelical movement, while it's fairly big in America and it's old, it's relatively new here.

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Like if you go back 30 years, there weren't that many churches in Dublin. Do you know? No, I did not.

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And it was really in the 90s that it started. The 80s, 90s, the gospel went out and more came in.

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But I remember myself, our church had 12 people. Now it's got 500. Oh, wow. So what

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I'm saying is the church in Ireland and dealing with, say,

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Ireland in context was relatively small doesn't excuse it. There is a lot of friendship evangelism crept in.

08:35

Yeah. You know, right. Love your neighbor. Paint their fence. Right, right, right. Bring their dog for a walk.

08:40

Right, right. And those things can be good. Praise God. Yeah. But they're not the gospel. Amen. They're not.

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And one more thing is. Yeah. This is very dear on my heart is that there's organizations,

08:56

I'm sorry, churches and they fundraise and they go to the world for money. And, you know, my church included did it for a while to preach the gospel, you know, and looking for money and then they look for money to do good things to other people.

09:10

And I'm saying that's not our money. That's the world's money. And I think of is it the

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Book of Philemon or First John where Paul says, commend these brothers.

09:22

I commend them to you because they went out and preached the gospel and took no help from the pagans. Wow. You cannot take money from the world to preach the gospel.

09:32

That's powerful. You can't. That's powerful. You know, you either put your own hand in your pocket or you go out in faith with nothing, you know.

09:40

Right. That's powerful. And that's another aspect of letting the world creep into the church. Yeah. Trying to corporatize it and, oh, let's do the world schemes, you know.

09:50

Right, right. Let's look at it from a corporative side and a business. Right. Anyway. I'm so glad I met you again.

09:57

So glad. I was thinking about it because I was thinking he's a brother. Yeah. And we had a fight basically.

10:05

Yeah. Well, bless you, man. I love you, man. Okay. Thank you. Thanks for saying hi to me. God bless you, brother.