Did the Roman Catholic Church Give us the Bible?

The Show Opens With a Heated Exchange Over Facts and Narratives

Yeah, I've had it. I'm sorry. I've had it. What what what have you had it with you? Why. Because I think you're off the wall, you know, you're citing all these things and claiming them to be facts that are not facts.

Well, actually difference you you made a whole bunch of claims that you just made claims over and over. I told you where you could go. You can go to the CDC. You can go to you can go to dr Fauci and go back and listen and see the things that we said.

But it's off the wall because it's not part of your narrative so like are you looking for truth or narrative becomes the thing and and you're you're. You're now upset just because we said something that didn't support the narrative.

No, that's not it at all.

Then what is?

I'm done.

To answer your questions. Your host. From striving for eternity ministries.

We are live apologetics live here to answer your most Challenging questions that you have about God and the Bible. We are here to answer any question that you have about God in the Bible and we can do that here if you doubt that.

Just go to apologetics live .com. Scroll down till you see where to participate. It's the little duck icon the Streamyard icon you can click that join us. Ask me your most challenging question. Just remember one thing I don't know is a perfectly good answer tonight our topic will be Did the Roman Catholic Church give us the Bible maybe some of you remember some weeks back?

We had someone toward the end of our show come in. His name was Sebastian. We he was making a case for Mary being the Ark of the Covenant. We got into a Kind of a lengthy discussion. We went over time and got into a lengthy discussion of the Canon of Scripture and how we got it.

Sebastian agreed to come back so that we could give him more time and have a lengthier discussion. So he will be joining shortly and.

I.

Should introduce myself in the show. That would be good. My name is Andrew report. I am the host of apologetics live. It's a ministry of striving for eternity. If you want to find out more about us go to striving for eternity org.

That is striving for eternity org I do encourage folks to do two things one I encourage you to watch this live because we have a well We have a very active chat group on YouTube that watch us live. I know there's people that chat on Facebook as well, but we don't get to see that during the show.

Just the way Facebook works, but a lot of people are active in the chat. And so if you want to go to the YouTube channel for striving for eternity. If you go to apologetics live comm that also has a link for you to watch the show from YouTube.

You can just click from there to the YouTube link to get to YouTube. And so Encourage you to do that if you want to chat. Also, I want to encourage you guys to share this out to others, especially if you find some value in it, I Have been amiss in reading reviews.

Well, because I forgot that we to I had a service that would check all the reviews and I Didn't I had some not signed up for apologetics live. So I wasn't getting the reviews. So We got some recent reviews and then I went back and saw some old ones that I figured hey, that'd be fun to to read so the most recent one that I have not read in the show is a five-star review from Someone named leatherneck 7476 say brilliant brilliantly done good God has gifted this group I'm not sure which episode that was with but that was on September 2nd.

So would have been one the the one that goes back a ways. I forgot about this. This was from the end of May. And I find it. I always find this interesting because I was able to determine that I think it's the same person leaving the same review a one-star review and then they go in with a different a different Name to do but one is a one-star review unloving sickening behavior towards others.

And he says I pray Andrew and his co-host repent of the way they treat others who disagree with them. Especially the brethren this podcast and others like it are causing division in Christ Church I really found that interesting because this is the guy if you go back six months or so this was a guy that.

Believed.

Disagreed with what John MacArthur said about the difference between the mind and the brain with mental health and this guy was totally misrepresenting what John MacArthur had said and We got into a whole discussion of different What is a disease things like this?

And we actually if you remember that one, this is the one where we had actually read Aaron Brewster read from the the DMS 5 manual that defines what a disease is on ADHD and ADD and if you remember the guy that came in argued that the DMS 5 the the actual manual on defining what diseases are is Not an expert witness.

He was the expert witness with no degree. No, no background in science and didn't like that. We pointed that out. That was a and it is kind of funny he He had posted that it is interesting because one of the things that's very interesting I find with this show is the fact that when you look at the reviews we have the the overwhelming number of them.

Talk about the fact that we are very polite to guests. In fact as we'll have tonight. I'll do my same you know. Disclaimer that I've put before especially I did it just last week when we had Layton flowers on.

I'll give you an update with that in a moment as well. But we allow folks like Layton and Sebastian to have time to talk. So the fact that I don't answer everything that I may disagree with with a guest Does not mean that there was no argument that could be made.

As as my show here. The purpose is to do apologetics to teach apologetics. That's what we do here. And so Being that it's my show. If there's a guest like a Layton flowers or Sebastian or anyone else, we just played a clip from Godless grandma who is on here at the beginning of the show and I could do an entire show as we did with godless grandma.

Responding to some of the things she said I could do that with Layton and I could do that with Sebastian here. Who's in today? Because it's my show. So If I let someone talk it's because I want to respect the guest.

So I say that because well There's a lot of people that just get upset when I let guests actually speak and they feel like well. You got to cut them off and address everything that they say wrong. Well, I'm not always looking to do that.

There's things Layton said that I realized afterwards when I was really listening. Yeah, I could have I could have responded to that. I couldn't respond it to that. Well, I will be responding to that maybe because Layton will have me on his program.

We were trying to set up a date. He's traveling right now. So I will go on his soteriology 101 and I will as he is teaching soteriology 101 I will go on there and teach soteriology. Well 201 301 401 and 501 if you've never been to college and you don't get the one-on-ones.

Basically one-on-ones are entry-level classes and then your sophomore classes are 201 they started, you know 200s and then You know junior your third year is 301s fourth year 401s advanced is 501s.

So that's kind of the way that so when he says he's teaching soteriology 101 will teach him more advanced soteriology the doctrine of salvation.

So.

And and I don't know I'll let the audience. I just knocked this I just knocked the mics on that fix this. I I'll let the ask the folks in the audience. I don't know for those of you I know some of you do watch Leighton.

I don't typically follow him. But if I'm curious anyone out there if he did a response video to our apologetics live because Leighton usually does that. He'll do response videos that are quite long. So I'm just gonna I'm just gonna say that we were supposed to be joined by Ed Romine.

He was in last week.

Ed.

Is is said he was gonna come because he Didn't have things at church and then all of a sudden at let's see. He usually and by the way, Ed usually calls me just before we go live just to say hi. It is and he calls me during the show to see if I will put him on see you know to just add him in somehow or just to see if I'll answer the phone and Doesn't matter because my phone shuts off during the show, but Ed said I won't be I won't be able to make it.

I I have an evangelism opportunity come up for tonight. So he won't be here. I told him he broke my heart, but you can you could pray for his evangelism opportunity. Drew is not here. And therefore I it makes it harder for me to follow all of the the comments as they go rapid-fire.

So those that are watching live I will ask you in the chat if you have a specific question for either myself or Sebastian. Just put in all caps question colon and then ask your question that will make it at least a little bit easier for me to see that you you have a Question that you want asked on the show.

And I had a board member that told me I don't mention this enough. So I should say if you want to guarantee a question gets asked if you're on YouTube We can do you can do super chats. That highlights it and keeps it frozen up top for me so that I definitely see that question and we read those.

It's a way of both supporting the ministry and making sure that We get to your question. Give a shout out to my good friend at dead man walking podcast. He says my man. What's up, Andrew? Great subject tonight.

Deadman walking is Greg Moore a great podcast. If you're not listening to that one May I encourage you to go to your podcast app and follow that one? He's also on YouTube. So good brother great stuff.

I.

I do.

Like a lot of what he has actually I'm probably gonna reach out to one of his recent guests to have him come on my rap Report podcast and talk about being debanked because Christians get well conservatives get debanked.

So.

I'm trying to figure out. Mr. Tracy said is Andrew under the weather not that I know of. Not sure why you think I'm under the weather.

So.

Just Jesse said good show with Leighton. I was extremely distracted in the comments though. See that's the thing Jesse, that's why we have the Podcast so you can always go back and listen as well. Because I'm just telling you folks if you're not in the chat, you're missing out.

Let me bring Sebastian in and as I do that folks I want to remind you to please share this on your different social media so that others who can join and follow Watch live. So Sebastian, how are you this evening?

Okay. I'm well. How are you? Good. Good. Good. So before we started the show you and I started talking about something completely unrelated to Roman Catholicism and.

The.

And the topic tonight and so I figured hey, let's if it'd be okay. Let's talk about the dangers of a keto diet. Because that's related to Roman Catholicism or not. But but it is something that you you and I were talking.

There's some and I said, hey, it would be good. I for folks who are regular here at apologetics live. We used to have one of our older co-hosts who is very into the keto diet. I've always been in favor of a modified keto diet.

But I'm not a big fan of a full keto diet because it does damage to the liver and different things. So and you actually had been trying to keep very strict to a keto diet and it affected you.

Yeah, I was on the keto diet for probably around three years in my very very early 20s. And I went to the very extreme of cutting nearly all of carbohydrates up completely for a very long time.

And.

Yeah, what damage did that do to your body? Okay, so.

The.

Basically the lack of soluble fiber one caused the toxins that I was consuming from all the animal products to accumulate in my liver and soluble fiber is needed to Latch on to fat soluble toxins there in the bile and the liver Produces bile and it's basically the liver's poop in a way.

And so when you consume soluble fiber Not only does it stimulate the liver to produce bile and to dump it into your gut but now the soluble fiber will latch on to the Bile, which is where all the toxins are and it'll carry it out through the through the entire digestive tract until you excrete it.

However, when I was in the keto diet, I wasn't really eating a whole lot of Soluble fiber. I was really just eating the fats and the meats and. So nowadays you see everyone on the keto or on the carnivore diet They're not eating enough soluble fiber.

And and that's one problem. So they're gonna start getting liver problems. All the vitamin a vitamin a is a fat soluble vitamin you do need but you do need vitamin a however. It will accumulate in your liver.

And this is this isn't anything that That's new. I'm not saying it's new. This is well established fat soluble vitamins accumulate in the liver, especially vitamin a.

And.

So people who are on the carnivore diet and you see people doing crazy things like eating liver and organ meats all the time. Which isn't bad, but they're eating it all the time they're making it a staple in their diet and then they're eating a bunch of fats and without the soluble fiber to feed the gut bacteria the fats are going into their stomach and they're basically just Fat has a sort of antimicrobial Properties so continue to eat it without supporting your gut might with without supporting your buying your gut biome.

It'll essentially just Act as an antibiotic in your gut and that's pretty much what happened in my gut. On top of that the lack of carbohydrates your brain needs Carbohydrates and so when you're not supplying your brain with with glucose from the diet, it's gonna start catabolizing its own body tissue to produce Carbohydrates which are necessary to feed your brain.

And this is this requires something called adrenaline. So people at the end of a carnivore keto diet, they might experience or have problems with their adrenaline. They may have adrenal fatigue or some sort of dysregulation where a Small event will cause their adrenals to basically go hyperactive and that was one thing that happened to me during the end was Tiny events would overstimulate and overstimulate my adrenal glands and so I remember sitting in a movie theater with a girl that I was dating at the time and The music in the movie theater is very loud.

It's very rumbling and it kind of hits you in your chest and it's very stimulating. I remember being on the border of a panic attack in the movie theater because My heart was just beating out of my chest.

It was my adrenals. I was thinking to myself. What is going on here? And in retrospect, I know now that My dietary practices of restricting carbohydrates so much on top of the other. On top of my lifestyle is I was very active as well as though not only was I restricting carbs for my diet.

But I was actively depleting carbs through exercise basically, all this together was was leading to an adrenaline crisis and So my advice to people who are following the keto and carnivore diet is to be cautious and to maybe Reintroduce carbs Periodically or cyclically and most importantly to Consume soluble fiber whether that be in the form of beans or vegetables.

Or maybe even something like a psyllium husk fiber supplement. You need the constant stream of soluble fiber to clean out your liver and and to support a healthy liver function and and all these hormones like adrenaline they get stored in the liver.

People don't realize that and And it's it's hugely important like excess adrenaline won't actually lead your body until it's been Completely excreted via the soluble fiber. And so if you're on the keto or carnivore diet and you're not consuming soluble fiber.

You're just gonna become a toxic wasteland for for everything all the toxins that you consume from your diet.

Yeah, that's the thing. I mean it's someone in the chat put up there. It's like the old Atkins diet. Yeah, there's all these different fads with the diets and and they will often work at the beginning.

But a lot of them get imbalanced and that's that's the thing. It's it's there's a lot of different ways to be healthy, I mean look I'm I go extremes right. I Go from a sauna to a to a cold plunge. I cold plunge almost every morning.

If I'm not if I don't do a cold plunge, I'm in a cold. I take a cold shower. People think that's extreme. But hey. So, uh, I guess people think I'm sick. Dead man walking said that my voice sounds a little scratchy that It's going around.

Well, I don't. I feel okay. Don't don't hear it in my own voice. Another podcaster Parker Brown says I shared he's me referring to sharing this this episode. Or this live stream. He said appreciate your friendship brother.

Love what you do Parker Brown is from the watch well podcast another pocket if you like Movies that would be a podcast to go and check out is the watch well podcast. Parker Brown's a good brother. So let's get into our discussion Sebastian.

For folks. Give give folks a little bit of your background your your your title if I take the banner off here the the banner that you've. The heading you've given yourself is traditional Roman Catholic.

So explain what you mean by that and a little bit about yourself.

So I am a traditional Roman Catholic. That means that one. I'm a Catholic. This means that I accept that there has been a Tradition of 2 ,000 years of practiced Christianity that has been organized and unified and that has endured to this day and.

I am.

Roman Catholic, which means that I accept the the papacy it means that I acknowledge Rome to be the center of authority within the church and this is Something that's been recognized since the very beginning that's Something else I suppose we could talk about and then I'm traditional because I have to add traditional because nowadays people call themselves Catholic, but they accept the that the changes that are Being made by the people who occupy the Vatican.

And so I suppose I could also mention that I'm a state of the cantus which It comes from the Latin word sate vacante, which means sate means seat vacante means vacant means I see the the chair of Peter's being vacant and that's because the person who's occupying it who calls himself a Pope isn't actually the Pope, but he's an anti Pope and so that's why I have to say that I'm traditional which means that I Accept the dogmas that state that heretic cannot be a Pope and Francis and all the other Vatican to claimants are all heretics and thus anti popes.

So I'm a traditional Roman Catholic.

Okay, so you you reject? Vatican to. That's right. Okay, and and I assume that and so what I want to do is I want to get your reaction. This is I want to play a clip. This is from Ben Shapiro and the gentleman he has on I forgot his name now is You already know who it is, so I want to play this clip and get your reaction.

The sort of countervailing effect of that is that you've seen this and this this occurs in the Jewish community as well as in the Catholic and the Protestant community as well. Is that in a sort of rebelling in against sort of watercolor version of the religion you do see people You know embracing a version that is, you know.

It's so sort of reactionary to that and move beyond the boundaries in the other direction. So in terms of Catholicism, you do see a wing of Catholicism now that is attempting to for example wholesale reject Vatican to write for example.

Well, what do you make of that? No, and that's the problem. So as I've been a longtime critic of Catholic progressivism I'm also a critic of what we call kind of the more radical traditionalism within Catholicism and that's one of the marks.

You're quite right. I would say a disdain for the Pope and you see that in some Catholic circles. I mean almost a Disrespect toward the Pope but but even more importantly is the rejection of an ecumenical council.

You can't do that and be a Catholic. It's as simple as that. I mean that to us is the highest Doctrinal authority there is as a council if you say well, I don't like Vatican to well How about Vatican one?

How about Trent? How about Nicaea? How about Chalcedon? Can I take and choose which councils I like. I've told some of the radical traditionalist Catholics You become really a Protestant at that point.

You've given up on the authority of the church. So that's the problem. Yeah, you can move this thing in that direction. See my one of my great heroes, of course John Paul the second everything we've been talking about He he understood and believed and propagated and he was a great student of philosophy.

I loved st. Thomas Aquinas and the and the sciences and cultural engagement. He didn't want to sort of ghettoized Catholicism or or you know crouching defensively behind walls. He didn't want that. He wanted a boldly confident Catholicism that goes out to meet the world Based on Logos is that's what Rothsinger again Saw is if we're the religion of Logos that means we can meet any scientists.

We can meet any philosopher we can meet the any representative of the culture. So it's not a Defensive fearful You know ghettoized Catholicism that to me would be the the rad trad side of it at its worst.

So I don't want that. I don't want Catholic progressivism. I want what we've been talking about.

That's the trajectory that I want to stay on. Okay, so I'd be curious, you know, you're. He's saying that your view the view that you hold to.

Is.

Is something that would be? You know as he said you can't be Catholic and reject Vatican to I mean he even said that you'd be a Protestant which was funny because before before it got to that point. He this is Tom Tom Shepard from even even if more he said so he was referring to you when you were describing that.

You reject the the Pope. He said so a modern-day Martin Luther so even Tom Shepard is Indirectly maybe agreeing that you sound Protestant.

Yeah, well, that's rich coming from Bishop Barron because he pretty much applauded the selection of pro-lgbtq Wilton Gregory to archdiocese of Washington DC. So he says he doesn't want to become like a progressive but he's clearly someone who endorses LGBTQ and if you're even if you're someone who identifies as a Christian and you're a Protestant and I don't regard you as a Christian.

Even I can see that or even even you rather could see that this is. This is an abomination. He's he's endorsing of the LGBTQ community the second thing I'll mention is that it's rich that he accuses us of Being like Protestants when we're actually the ones who are upholding traditional Catholic dogma and he's the one who rejects it.

And so it's it's actually not a coincidence that he's talking to Ben Shapiro of all people. Who's a Jew. Because this sort of interfaith dialogue is something that only start to occur after Vatican to and actually there's an interview with a Yemeni spy who used to work with the Jewish group and their main mission was to introduce this is in the 1980s was to promote interfaith dialogue with the Jewish community and there was never interfaith dialogue.

There was only debate and conversion. There was no there was never this sort of ecumenism or this false ecumenism where all religions are true and Bishop Baron has even has even said at one point that how it might be empty is How empty do does any Christian does anyone who identifies the Christian actually believe that hell is empty and that's obviously a whore.

That's a horrible way. That's that's completely false and unbiblical the Bible clearly shows that There are many people who go to hell and that the path to holiness is narrow and the path to destruction is broad.

So he's a heretic. He's not a Catholic and he's not someone who should be taken seriously the fact that he appeared on Ben Shapiro show. I mean, what is the Daily Wire? It's basically just a propaganda outlet at its best.

It's basically pro-israel Propaganda that's just found its way that's wedged its way into American society. And now they're saying Not now they're trying to ally with the Christian community by saying oh look There we're all for Judeo-christian values right as if Jews don't completely reject Christ.

So it's just a complete He's a heretic and he's just an evil person so he's not a Catholic by any stretch He probably doesn't know anything about what the church actually teaches.

So he's a bishop and he doesn't know what the church teaches.

So.

Do you do you have any?

Lost all the jurisdiction by being a heretic. A heretic can't have any jurisdiction. He's he's basically an imposter.

But he says you're the heretic by and and I mean he's he's at least keeping with the the teachings of the church. No, he's not. So you don't believe that the councils are authoritative.

I do but he's the one who doesn't that that's the sleight of hand that's being at play here. Is that I'm the one who upholds the traditional dogmas of the faiths. You you approach Trent to right? Yeah, everything up until the Vatican to but here I'll tell you so it says.

But you don't accept Vatican to know because it preaches. What what what. So, okay? What specific heresy did that. Because that's a vet. That's a council. So if the councils, you know, I'm asking this because It's not it's a false council as someone who's not Catholic, right?

I my understanding of Catholicism is from reading Catholic history and documents and you know the councils so. And this is this is gonna be a core part of our discussion I think later when we talk about the Bible.

What then defines? So let's start specifically with Vatican to you're saying it's heresy. What made that?

Council heresy. Okay, so I'll give you an example. There's a portion in Vatican to call the lumen gentium. This is basically considered the dogmatic Constitution on the church and in Vatican to this is Vatican to's Constitution on the church and in lumen gentium 16 We have this quote.

But the plan of salvation also embraces those who acknowledge the Creator and among these the Muslims are first. They profess to hold the faith of Abraham and along with us They worship the one merciful God who will judge humanity on the last day.

Do Muslims worship Jesus Christ and the Most Holy Trinity? No, they don't. So, how can you say that Muslims worship the one true merciful God along with Christians? And this is in Vatican to which is supposed to be a council and they're saying that Muslims worship God the Christian God.

So that's that's horrible.

All right, I mean Catholicism has some different right. So I was actually I have someone coming by the house tomorrow night because he's you know, he tends Roman Catholic Church, and he asked me about praying to the Saints and.

And whether that's biblical he did some research and he wants to review it with me and so, you know, I find interesting cuz like. Yeah, I look I think about Mary, right? People, you know Roman Catholics will pray to Mary.

Do you do you pray to Mary at all? Yes. Okay. Why why do you do that?

Well because the Bible instructs us to.

Okay, she's was she like a mediator.

God dispenses grace through Mary and it's through Mary that Grace is also given to us who pray to pray to her for intercession.

So I guess what I'm asking is this. So does she act as a mediator?

Between us and God. God God gives her grace and she then gives that grace to us. So when we pray to Mary she gives us grace that was given to her by God, okay.

I'll try a third time. So is she a mediator between God and man? I just told you that God gives.

Mary grace and she gives us grace. So whatever whatever make make with that what you will. I'm not gonna play semantics here, but no, I'm not playing.

It's it's a yes or no so I'm now I'll ask is that your definition of a mediator. Because I'm asking is she a mediator and You're answering something else. So I'm trying to make sure I understand that you're your answer is not yes or no.

Either she is or is not right and so your answer is something else. So I'm trying to say is that are you saying she's a mediator by your definition or not?

Is that your definition of a mediator or are you saying she's familiar really with with what that term encompasses? I would suppose yes, because she would be mediator would mean middle and she is between us and and God so sure.

Yeah, I mean because because that would be a thing and and yet, you know in Scripture It says there is only one mediator between God and man and that's the man Christ Jesus. Right. So so like I look at that and say, okay, so I'll go further back and say that would you say?

Okay, Vatican twos a problem. I'll go further back and say no. No, your whole Catholic Church is heretical long before Vatican two. And you could just look at when you started worship worshiping him and or having Mary as a mediator because Paul writes that there's only gonna be one.

Right. Well, here's where I want to get to the question because this becomes Essential it's it's and and someone put it. Hold on. Let me find. I Saw someone put yeah, Jesse. He said what's the standard and that's what I wanted to get to with with the question.

Okay, let me let me ask you this Andrew. Do you pray for other people?

Do I pray for other people? Yes, I pray to to Jesus to for other people. Okay. So what's the difference? You're a mediator now?

No, yes, you are. You just said that you prayed other people on their behalf.

So you're asking God to give. To give that person grace. I'm asking God. I'm asking God. So who's. Who's the mediator. Jesus between God and man? I'm talking to Jesus. Who's the mediator?

Jesus.

Okay, who do you think Mary is talking to? She's talking to God eating with us.

The difference is you're going to marry to go to Jesus. Yes.

I'm gonna ask you to pray for them. That's what you're doing. It's the same thing. So.

So you're saying that that Mary can bestow grace. I'm not bestowing grace when someone asks to pray for me.

Then what are you doing. That's the whole point of prayer is for you to ask God to give that person grace.

No.

I'm going to God and just raising the the the petition to God.

Right so that he can give that person grace to live a more holy life and to overcome whatever challenges there.

Do you see the difference? I'm not bestowing the grace. There's no difference.

Am I you're praying for someone else. So on their behalf. And when I asked for Mary to pray for me to God. That's that's what's happening. It's the same thing. She is more favored than me than me and other people.

She's the most holy creature on earth. She was born without.

She disagrees with that. She disagrees with that, but she doesn't.

Yes, she does.

Um, but but the the issue that i'm raising with it is this. Is i'm not just okay. Let me ask this. Do I bestow grace on people that ask me to pray for them?

Can I if you are a holy person? This is this is well, I mean look at uh, People who even touched paul or peter's uh.

Uh, what was it?

People Peter performed the first miracle after uh the ascension. He uh, I think he even raised someone from the dead. At one point and this isn't even just him by the way. There are other saints who perform miracles.

So yes, you can as a holy person Perform miracles and that that requires god's grace. So yes.

See you keep playing word games again. God's grace is not the same as me being able to give grace the way you're saying. Mary does.

It is the same thing because it's not your grace. It's god's grace. So when you are giving someone else god's grace, you are acting as a channel as a mediator. So you're wrong on that.

Um.

So I this is going to get back to what i'm saying about the standard you're you're just making definitive statements that this other catholic bishop Is a heretic and he's wrong. I'm wrong. By what authority Can you claim those such things?

I can. I can.

I can base what i'm saying off of the bible and off of what previous christians have believed for the past 2000 years. So there's there's not only evidence from the bible itself Which is the word of god, but there's evidence from the tradition of christianity, which is also the word of god from the past 2000 years.