TLP 339: Good Pictures, Bad Pictures | Kristen Jenson interview, Part 1

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The third part that they'll find is a plan, called the CAN -DO plan, and it's an acronym to help kids know and remember exactly what to do when they see pornography.

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Welcome to Truth, Love, Parent, where we use God's Word to become intentional, premeditated parents.

00:24

Here's your host, A .M. Brewster. Would you like to attend a Truth, Love, Parenting conference?

00:29

Yes, but Aaron, there aren't any in my area. Well, let me ask you this. Has your teenager ever lamented that they didn't have enough money to participate in an activity?

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What did you tell them? Have you ever considered getting a job? Sure, there may not be a Truth, Love, Parenting conference scheduled in your area right now, but have you ever considered hosting one?

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Why wait for someone else to do it? Go to truthloveparent .com and click on the conferences tab or use the link in the description of this episode to learn how you can host or sponsor a

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Truth, Love, Parenting conference in your area. Parenting is a big job and we all need all the help we can get.

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Perhaps God would like to use you in the lives of local families by connecting them with TLP via a conference.

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Please consider the awesome opportunity you have. And by the way, conference sponsors and hosts get to attend for free, so, you know, there's that.

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A few months ago, I was introduced to a really helpful and extremely timely book. I don't know if your family has ever been hurt by pornography and sexual sin.

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I know mine has. But the issue of porn has been a hot topic recently in our culture, so likely you've heard something about it.

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According to Psychology Today, pornography negatively affects your sexual satisfaction within your marriage.

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It sets up inaccurate expectations for sexuality, encourages loneliness, and contributes to divorce.

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Protect Young Minds, an organization we'll be talking about more later, they have an article that explains how pornography is a cheap and destructive adulteration of healthy sex.

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Instead of sex that is loving, bonding, selfless, holistic, real, uplifting, and empowering, porn usage reinforces harmful conceptions of sex.

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Specifically, sex becomes hateful, isolating, selfish, objectifying, fake, degrading, and addicting.

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Fight the New Drug cites that porn destroys our values, can lead to erectile dysfunction, encourages social isolation, and works against the mature ability to set goals.

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I've included some links to these articles in the description of this episode. And of course, we should all be aware of the fact that pornography is forbidden in Scripture because it feeds our self -idolatry.

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When we worship self, we worship a puny god that's incapable of loving and caring for us. God calls us to a higher form of worship—worship of our

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Creator and Sustainer who infinitely knows what is best for us. God created sexuality within a heterosexual marriage to be a massively beautiful and satisfying practice as well as a divine illustration to the world.

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And likely, most of you listening are familiar with everything I just said. But what about your kids? Have you talked to them about sexuality?

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We have many episodes on the subject. I'll link them below as well if you want to continue your study. But whether you've discussed sexuality or not, have you prepared your kids to respond correctly to pornography?

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While discussing how early most children are introduced to porn, Fight the New Drug writes, some sources say it's 11 years old, while others say kids as young as 8 are encountering porn.

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We've even had messages from fighters saying that they were as young as 3 years old. And this is not merely the kids who go to seedy public schools.

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I was an associate administrator at a prestigious Christian school for 4 years. I regularly was counseling children and their parents due to porn -related issues.

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Today's episode is not going to discuss how to protect your kids from porn. We have other episodes about that.

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Today's episode is going to be about preparation. How can you prepare your children to respond the right way when, not if, they encounter pornography?

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Well, I have someone to whom I'd like to introduce you. She's not only created a resource to equip parents to have this conversation with their children, she's literally created a resource that facilitates the conversation.

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Kristen Jensen is my special guest today. Kristen is the founder of Protect Young Minds and best -selling author of Good Pictures, Bad Pictures, Pornproofing Today's Young Kids, and Good Pictures, Bad Pictures, Jr.

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A Simple Plan to Protect Young Minds. She is an active member of Safeguard Alliance, which falls under the task force of the

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National Coalition on Sexual Exploitation. She received her bachelor's degree in English Literature and her master's degree in Organizational Communication.

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Kristen grew up in both Wyoming and Massachusetts, is the mother of three awesome children, and currently lives with her husband in beautiful Washington state.

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Kristen, thank you so much for joining me today. It's great to be with you, Aaron. I hope you're having a wonderful day.

04:47

Why don't you take a moment to tell us a little bit more about your family and what it looks like to be in the Safeguard Alliance?

04:53

Okay. Well, my family, so I'm married, coming up on 35 years, so that's a lot of years.

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And I, like I said, I have three children. One of them passed away as a child, so when he was a little over 10 years old, and as a result of an accident.

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So he is waiting for us in heaven, and yeah. So I have my two daughters, and one of them has had two children, so I have two grandsons.

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Just recently had another baby, so that's exciting. And yeah, my other daughter is a scientist.

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She works at a national lab. She is a biochemist, and she does a lot of data analysis.

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So she works with the scientists, and then kind of makes pretty graphs, is what she says.

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That's her job. I make pretty graphs. I'm sure she is, but it's like bioinformatics, and so she's really into it, and it's great.

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You know, I live in eastern Washington, and kind of in the middle of nowhere in some ways, and we moved here about nine years ago from the

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Seattle area. Yeah, I've never been to Washington myself, but I heard that one of the quietest places on the world exists there in one of the rainforests.

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Are you familiar at all with that? Yes, the whole rainforest is on the peninsula, and we've been there.

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Washington state offers so many beautiful environments, from plains and desert almost, and to the ocean, to the mountains, to a rainforest.

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We got it all. We got it all here. So come on and visit Washington state.

06:49

We would love it. To all the listeners out there, if you do, you know, Kristen will obviously greet you when you get off the plane.

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I mean, she'll have you for coffee. So, you mentioned my work with the

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Safeguard Alliance and the National Center on Sexual Exploitation. So, the

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National Center in Washington, D .C., they really fight pornography and also sex trafficking and prostitution.

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And they work with the government. They try to influence laws and policies, and they hold international global conferences and summits almost every year, and just bring together so many people that are trying to fight all the various kinds of sexual exploitation.

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And that does include pornography, and that does include sexual abuse and trafficking.

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So we all get together, and they are just such a huge force.

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They have something that's just come out, which is called the Dirty Dozen List, and where they are basically shaming corporations that are adding to and promoting sexual exploitation.

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And they've just come out with their list. They come out with it every February, and you can go to their site and look up Dirty Dozen and see who they feel are, you know, really adding to this problem.

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And many corporations, when they find out they're going to be on that list, they do what they can to get off that list.

08:32

So... That makes sense. Then the Safeguard Alliance is a group within that of people that are working on prevention.

08:39

So a lot of people are working on recovery from porn addiction or saving, you know, people that have been trafficked, helping them, helping, you know, stopping trafficking, that kind of thing.

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But we are really interested in the prevention side of pornography, like how to prevent kids from being harmed by it.

08:58

We know we can't prevent kids from seeing it. How do we help parents arm children so they can reject pornography and keep it from harming them?

09:08

Yeah, we live in this delusion where we as parents think that we can actually protect our kids from anything.

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And protection, I mean, that's hard. That is really hard. I mean, when they're really, really small, we struggle, we run around the house trying to protect them from everything.

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But as they get bigger, it gets way harder. And really preparing them to help prevent future issues is a much better way to go than trying to protect them from something.

09:32

Yeah. Well, when I think of protection, I really think of self -protection. I think of arming children so that they can protect themselves.

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And so I don't think of protection as keeping them from ever being exposed. I think of protection in a much stronger way of self -protection, really, and inoculation.

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I'll tell you something funny. When I first started this years and years and years ago, I was trying to come up with a name for my new blog.

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And I thought, well, pornography and inoculation, because what I want to do is inoculate kids so that they know what it is.

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They know it's harmful and they know how to reject it. Right. They know what to do. Right.

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So like porn and inoculation. Oh, pornoculation. Now I laugh about that.

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And then I have a cousin who's an attorney and she came to me and she goes, Kristen, that is a terrible name.

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It's a horrible name. It's disgusting. Like what? And so she goes, you've got to get a new name.

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And I'm like, well, what what should I do? And she goes, I don't know. But you just. Anything. You she says, people pay me a lot for my advice and I'm going to give you some for free.

10:51

Yeah, you probably had some people finding your site who maybe were looking for something very different at that. Yeah. Yeah.

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Unfortunately, that's still that still happens. But then we went to porn for kids and then we went to Protect Young Minds and with Protect Young Minds, we've really grown a lot and are serving tens of thousands of parents, even, you know, millions when it comes to the people that have come to our website.

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So we've got lots of free guides there that really are helpful to parents in getting up to speed on the issue of pornography.

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We have a quick start guide and we have a guide for parents who have already, you know, found out that their kids have seen pornography and, you know, or maybe even sought it out.

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And then we have a guide for speaking up in your community, what to do if you want to, you know, speak up in your community or have a meeting or an event.

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So we have all those resources, plus many, many more on our resources page. That's fantastic.

11:57

Now, I know that everyone has a story. Now, obviously, what you're doing is extremely important.

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I think we all would agree with that. We can't wait to talk about the specifics of the book and how that can prepare us to prepare our kids.

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But I am curious. I'm curious why it is like why is this so important to you? Where is your passion come from that you would dedicate all this time to not only being part of these groups, but then going through the trouble of writing a book like Good Pictures, Bad Pictures?

12:22

Why? What has been your motivation personally? Well, there was a time, Aaron, when I didn't want to have anything to do with pornography or fighting it or anything.

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And in fact, I made a big mistake. And that was to tell God that I didn't want to do it.

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And if you tell God you don't want to do something, sometimes I think he takes it on as a personal challenge.

12:48

Oh, yeah? Well, we'll find out about that. Guess what? So years later, after I made that terrible mistake,

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I got a call from a woman who I just met. She went to my church and she told me this horrible story of how her 17 year old son, they found out that he was molesting his younger brothers and sisters.

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And it was a large family. She homeschooled them because she wanted to keep them safe and all of that.

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However, you know, and pornography was involved and he had to go away. He had to go away to a program.

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I mean, luckily it was 17 and not 18. When she called and told me this horrible story and the effect it had on the children and all the counseling that they were going to and all this stuff,

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I woke up the next morning and I just felt compelled to find a resource for her.

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Like I thought there's got to be a book. So I went on. Has to be a book. Yeah. I mean,

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I was in my pajamas on my computer trying to find something because I thought I know there's books about, you know, child sexual abuse or stranger danger or whatever.

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Right. And I couldn't find anything. And then I just got this idea.

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I had a very strong feeling like who is going to warn the young children. And so I started looking and I started doing some research.

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And, you know, I'm a very optimistic person in some ways. So I thought, you know, how hard could this be?

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Right. How hard could it be to write a book for kids about pornography and educate them about it and how it works and how they can stay away from it?

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And so that began a three year process that I thought, oh, it'll take like two weeks this summer.

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Right. How hard can a children's book be? Oh, very optimistic. Yeah. So it took three years and I had a lot of help from a lot of parents, a lot of professionals.

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But it was finally published in March of 2014 was our first edition.

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And now we have a second edition and we also have Junior. So that was how it all got started.

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And I wrote it from faith neutral point of view.

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I felt actually I prayed about that. I felt inspired to do that. And as a result, it's gone all over the world.

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It's in Chinese. It's in Arabic. It's coming out in a lot of other different languages,

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Spanish, German, Italian and more on the table. So I felt like parents are pretty good at helping their kids understand their religious beliefs and their faith.

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And they know their Bible, but what they don't know is how to begin that conversation. So that's what

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I that's the piece I'm giving. And then you can overlay your beliefs on top of that. And I find that most parents don't have a problem with that.

16:01

They're pretty good at it. Well, I resonate with so much of what you say, in part because, first of all, growing up,

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I was introduced to pornography. It was a huge problem of mine for a long time. But then I worked at a program similar to the one you referenced earlier.

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I worked at Victory Academy for Boys. And a lot of the issues that we dealt with there had to do with sexual issues.

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And oftentimes it was things like what you discuss. So I've seen it. I've been on that side. And you and I were talking before we started recording.

16:30

And one of the things that you mentioned was something that I have seen a lot and you've been seeing a lot, too, is this idea of, like you mentioned, this older brother with a younger sibling, this peer -on -peer type of child -on -child type of molestation happening.

16:45

And you were reading something, I believe, if I remember correctly, that was talking about that that has roots in pornography usage.

16:52

Can you talk a little bit about that? Yes. So obviously, we don't want our children to get addicted to pornography.

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We don't want it to hurt their relationships as they grow up or their ability to mature.

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But one of the things that we're finding is that children, well, children are just wired.

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Their brains are wired to imitate. Every parent knows this, you know, and sometimes we laugh about it.

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Sometimes we're a little worried because we see them imitating some of our more, let's see, maybe our bad habit.

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But, you know, we know as parents, kids imitate what they see, what they see adults do.

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So why do we think it's so strange that kids who watch pornography then want to imitate what they see?

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And who are they going to do that with? Of course, other vulnerable children. And for children, if they've never been, no one's ever talked to them about it, often they innately feel a certain shame.

17:50

So they keep it secret, but they are driven in many ways by their brain to imitate and to figure this out, to act out what they've seen.

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So this has really fueled a huge increase in child on child, we call it harmful sexual behavior.

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You can call it molestation. There's a study that was done at a hospital in Kansas.

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The SANE nurses, which is a sexual assault nurse examiners, looked at who the perpetrators were.

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All the kids that are brought in for examination, they find out who the perpetrator is.

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The largest group of perpetrators were males 11 to 15.

18:39

Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't surprise me. 11 to 15. It is shocking. Yeah. And yeah.

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And the thing is, Aaron, is they don't just do kind of normal sexual things. They're doing porn inspired sexual things, things they've seen on porn that are very different than maybe what people consider as normal sexual acts.

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So that is some of the work. I was helped to sponsor a symposium in Washington, D .C.,

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with the National Center on Sexual Exploitation last year. And we looked at the harms and the rise of this problem.

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And I'll tell you, it's gotten so bad on military bases that they have tasked their people with finding a solution to this.

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And, you know, I spoke about how pornography and others spoke about how pornography is fueling this problem.

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Yeah. And it sticks with you. It sticks with you throughout life. If it becomes a habit as a child and you aren't worked through how to break that, it's very right.

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You mentioned earlier, too, I think before when we were talking that it used to be that if a child acted out sexually like this, people assumed automatically that they had been abused themselves, that they had an adult, you know, inappropriate with them.

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But now you made the observation that pornography has become the abuser. Pornography is the thing that's that's abusing them and that was causing them to act out.

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And they've never even potentially had an adult lay hands on them. Yeah. Porn is the perpetrator. Yeah. We write about it on our blog.

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This one girl who saw pornography and then she started acting it out with her cousins.

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And I've also talked with several people who say that they're addicted to pornography.

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We did a study with them and come to find out several of them were involved in this.

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And one guy was telling us about, you know, his cousins. He was with his cousins all the time.

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They lived in a town where a lot of his cousins lived and they would get together and the parents were like, it's good.

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They're friends with their cousins and they're safe. But these cousins were going out in the shed and doing things that they learned about on board.

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And so and they were young. They were under age 13.

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You know, you don't want your child to suffer from this. So that's why it's so important to begin talking with them at a young age about pornography in an age appropriate way.

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It's not going to hurt them. It's only going to help them. Yes. And I know everything we've talked about right now may have some of the listeners just freaking out if they've never heard these statistics.

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But we want to offer hope today. Now, before we do that, though, I want to talk about this because Kristen mentioned it earlier.

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And I know that if you're a regular listener to the show, you know that I don't normally dedicate a lot of time discussing resources that aren't decidedly

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Christian. And it's not as if there aren't a plethora of very valuable secular resources available.

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It's just that on the show, you know, we don't have a ton of time to deal with it. And if you go to TruthLoveParent .com, you'll see that ninety nine point nine percent of the resources we share are all steeped in Bible.

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But to be honest, I want you guys to know I couldn't not share this resource. And that right there, if you know me at all, should tell you how great it is.

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OK, Kristen, as you've already heard, is so passionate about protecting children from the ravages of the porn industry that she deliberately wrote books that are not affiliated with any religion and which can be used by families of all backgrounds and beliefs.

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As she said, she didn't want to include any unnecessary unnecessary barriers to parents getting the help they need for this fight against pornography.

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She did this so that every parent can be equipped to prepare their kids. And I commend her love and the powerful resource that she's created.

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Now, if you're a parent who would prefer to only use biblically based resources with your kids, please, first of all, know that I totally respect that.

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And that's why I asked Kristen if it would be OK for me to create a biblical companion guide to good pictures, bad pictures specifically for you if you're part of the

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TLP family. And she has graciously consented to that. So if you're already a member of the

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TLP family, just log in on TruthLoveParent .com to access that resource. And if you haven't set up your login and password, check your email for the invitation.

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And if you're not currently part of the TLP family, just head over to TruthLoveParent .com and click on Join the

23:05

TLP Family. I also have a link in the description for you as well. And speaking of the description, you'll also be able to find all sorts of amazing links for Kristen and her organization and blogs.

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And I really encourage you to check those out because this is all going to be part of preparing you so that you can prepare your kids.

23:22

So, Kristen, let's jump into this. Please give us an overview of what parents will find when they open up good pictures, bad pictures.

23:29

All right. When they open it up, what they're going to see is the one on, well, the one for the older children, like six or seven to 11, which is the good pictures, bad pictures, porn proofing today's young kids.

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That book begins with a mother and a son looking at a photo album on the couch.

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Right. They're just sitting on a Sunday afternoon and they're looking at some pictures, some good pictures.

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And then the mother uses that to launch a discussion about bad pictures, which is pornography.

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She gives him a definition. And of course, girls can also be a part of this and they should be.

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But she gives him a definition of what pornography is, a very age appropriate definition.

24:19

Something like pornography means pictures, videos, even cartoons of people with little or no clothing on that focuses on the private parts of the body we keep covered with a swimsuit.

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So basically, I'm talking about nudity that focuses on our private parts. And that's to me, that's all they need to know at the beginning.

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It's just enough so they recognize it. And that's the first step is being able to recognize it.

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And then we continue on with a discussion about how it can become an addiction.

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And we talk about the brain science of addiction and how it can grow and develop.

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And kids love this part. They love learning about their thinking brain and their feeling brain and how important it is to keep their thinking brain in control, because that's where we learn the difference between right and wrong.

25:15

That's our moral ethical center. That's where we learn all of the truths that I know parents that listen to you are trying to teach their kids.

25:26

That is in that prefrontal part, prefrontal cortex part of the brain. And it's not developed very well in young children.

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So that's why it's really important that they know about it and understand that their brain has two major parts.

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And then so we talk about how porn can be harmful. And it can be addicting.

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It can also change the way you look at people. But we keep that very age appropriate. And then you do the third part that they'll find is a plan.

25:56

We call it the can do plan. And it's an acronym to help kids know and remember exactly what to do when they see pornography and not only what to do right away, but also what to do when those memories come flooding back because they're very shocking memories to a child, especially.

26:19

And they need to know how to kind of rewire their brain away from those images so that they can minimize their impact.

26:27

Now, I have my my book right here and I'm actually just flipping through it as we're talking. And by the way, I saw a couple of days ago that you signed the first page of my book.

26:35

I was so honored to see that. Thank you so much. But as I was going through here, I mentioned earlier in the show that this book facilitates the conversation in a way.

26:45

It almost scripts the conversation because the book is about parents talking to their children about the subject.

26:52

And so all of the right things are said that you don't have to memorize what exactly you're going to say. You don't have to go get all the statistics and then find a way to present it to your child.

27:00

We've talked about recently on the show, we've talked about the importance of object lessons and parables and metaphors.

27:07

Well, guess what? This book is filled with that as the mother and the father talk to their child. They're using these pictures to help the children understand.

27:14

My wife particularly loved the part about the brain because, you're right, kids love that kind of stuff. It's great to know how

27:20

God created our bodies to work. And as they start to understand that, it makes things a lot make a lot more sense.

27:25

And then the plan at the end, too. It's great. You have this fantastic acronym that prepares kids for responding correctly when they encourage when they encounter the things that they you know, we don't want them to see.

27:37

And I want to say to you parents, when it comes to the concept of good pictures, bad pictures, I think Kristen does a great job of defining what a bad picture is.

27:44

But really, you can take this any any direction you want. You know, for example, I think about, you know, taking our kids to the mall.

27:51

I don't know if that's a big thing now as it used to be. But when you go to the mall, you walk by Victoria's Secret. And, you know, in theory, they're clothed.

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Many of them are clothed to the degree that you'd see people out in the bathing in a swimsuit by the beach.

28:04

And yet at the same time, as the parent, you have all the right in the world to define for them what a bad picture is, if that's not something that you you want them looking at that you don't think is valuable for them, because we all know that any lingerie ads are going to be focusing on those body parts, even though they have a little piece of fabric over it.

28:22

So it's it's the book is fantastic because it gives you everything you need, but also leaves room, as she said, to layer on the extras that you want to have there for your child to help them better understand.

28:33

Yeah. And in our second edition, we have questions at the end of each chapter so that you can have these discussions and it will really begin to solidify their understanding of what it is, why it's harmful and what to do when they see it.

28:50

Yeah. And I love those questions at the end of each chapter. That is a fantastic part of it. Now, Kristen, some parents are going to wonder,

28:57

I think probably some people are thinking this now, is telling my kids about pornography going to make them more curious to want to see it?

29:05

Now they're going to go looking for it. How would you console somebody who has that potential fear? I totally get that fear.

29:13

Parents want to protect their children. They want to maintain their innocence for as long as possible.

29:19

And I totally get it. But I have come to believe with everything that I've seen and read and experienced and all the so many parents

29:29

I've talked to, I believe it's much safer for kids to be curious about pornography with you by their side.

29:38

Then for them to be curious about pornography and have access to Google or friends or a friend's phone.

29:48

You know, when you introduce it, you can teach your values, your attitudes and you can set yourself up as the best source of information about pornography.

30:00

And it's and really pornography is just a toxic counterfeit to sex. But you can reassure your child that you will answer their questions.

30:11

Of course, their curiosity is normal. But warning them that following that curiosity can actually be dangerous and it can lead to some very big problems.

30:21

Kids are curious. And as I mentioned before, they're wired that way, right?

30:27

They're wired to figure out the world that they've been born into. And so I really join many experts who believe that the days when parents could avoid the subject of pornography in the hope of not fostering curiosity, those days are long gone.

30:45

And I will also say one more thing about this idea of innocence. Innocence is not the goal.

30:52

Teaching kids to choose right over wrong, that's the goal. Yeah, it's very good.

30:57

They're going to be, you know, they're going to you cannot control when they're going to be exposed to pornography.

31:05

You can't. But the one thing you can control is when you start talking to them about it and arming them so they know exactly what to do.

31:16

And I'd love to tell a story. A mom posted this on Facebook. She talked about how she had read good pictures, bad pictures to her nine year old boy.

31:27

And a few days later, he went to school. And lo and behold, someone showed him pornography on their phone.

31:34

Third grade. He came home. He told his mom and he said,

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Mom, I was scared, but I knew what to do. I was scared, but I knew what to do.

31:48

I mean, you can feel the relief that child felt because his mom was proactive and it taught him what to do in that situation.

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And kids are going to be in this situation much more often than they're going to be in a situation with a child abuser or something like that, or someone trying to sell them drugs, you know, it or get them interested in that.

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You know, we have these big fears, but really pornography is the most widespread, accessible to children, a danger.

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And so we need to protect them and we can do it. I'm reminded of something my dad did when

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I was younger. He said to me, Aaron, if you ever want to play with fire, just let me know and we'll do it together.

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You know, it was one of those things where my dad, knowing the pyromaniac that he was, knowing that I would probably be tempted with a similar thing.

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He wanted to create a safe environment for us to be able to interact with that thing that could, in fact, be very dangerous. Now, obviously, we're not wanting to interact with our children when it comes to pornography, but this is the same idea.

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My dad didn't want me going out with some kid who had a big thing of gasoline and a lighter to experience what it was like to play with fire.

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He wanted to be able to teach me how to interact with it in a safe way. And that's exactly what we want to do with our kids.

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We need to prepare them because if we don't, someone else is going to do it. So true. So true.

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So you said, you know, a child in third grade, let me ask you, what do you think is the best age to begin talking to a child about pornography?

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Well, there's no one specific age. It's when your child has. Kristen's, my conversation was going so well.

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And there were just, there was just so much more to talk about. And everything we had discussed was so incredibly important that I decided to break this interview into two parts.

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So I want you to join us next time for the conclusion of my interview with Kristen Jensen, as we wrap up about her book and talk about so many more valuable things when it comes to when we should be talking to our children about pornography, how should we be introducing these concepts?

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And we even talked a little bit about great, good ways of talking about sex with our kids, especially even when they're really young, how we start those conversations.

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So I hope you join us next time for the conclusion of my interview with Kristen Jensen, the author of Good Pictures, Bad Pictures. And while you're waiting for that, please go to TruthLoveParent .com,

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join the TLP family, sign in, and then download your free copy of the Biblical Companion Guide to Good Pictures, Bad Pictures, which

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I wrote up. Now the companion guide can be used by itself, but it really works best when it's used with the book.

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So I highly suggest you go over to our resource page and use our Amazon affiliate links and purchase a copy of Good Pictures, Bad Pictures, either the junior edition or the older child edition.

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And then you can use the Biblical Companion Guide technically with both, but it's designed specifically for the older version.

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I do plan to do a Biblical Companion for the junior version if you're interested in getting a copy of that. Again, join the

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TLP family, lots of great resources there, and I'll see you guys next time. Truth Love Parents is part of the

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Evermind Ministries family and is dedicated to helping you become an intentional premeditated parent.

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Join us next time as we search God's word for the truth your family needs today.