Zakir Naik

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of alpha to make a minister at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now. It's 602 nine seven three four six zero two or toll-free across the United States. It's one eight seven seven seven five. Three three three four one and now with today's topic.

Here is James white.

And good morning, welcome to the dividing line on a Tuesday morning and this will be the last dividing line for Let me see here look at ye olde calendar. Did it to two weeks till the 1st of April April Fool's Day.

Yes has nothing to do with that all. That'll be it because I leave on Thursday debate Friday evening moderate debates over the weekend speak on Long Island a starting a week from tonight and I know that Wednesday night.

I'm gonna be a grace-reformed Baptist Church on Thursday night. I'm gonna be at the Mass Pico Church of God and. So there's three places I'm speaking on Long Island next week. That would be the 25th through the 27th and Then getting to attend yet another wedding On the 28th and then get home after that.

So the next dividing line would naturally fall on April Fool's Day April 1st. That's probably going to be an interesting program. Anyways, so That's when we'll be back again. So if you have some burning issues you wish to get to.

You might want to do so today at eight seven seven seven five three three three four one. Because if you're waiting for Thursday and ain't gonna get you much at least not this this time around. So that's phone number eight seven seven seven five three three three four one that's the number that says I've been called by at least one person and I'm hoping that that's an indication that they're asking about Russian hermeneutics given the way it's spelled there on the screen.

Yeah, okay. It's with a K instead of a yeah, okay. All right. Okay, well, let's go ahead and talk with James and Glendale hi James. Doing good.

Hi, I took Biblical interpretation from dr. Barrett at a great university. Mm-hmm, so we obviously covered hermeneutics, but I've heard of recently Heard you mentioned in passing efforts and let me mention or reform hermeneutic.

And I just was wondering if you could tell me what that is because I'm not. I'm not really from. I mean I'm reformed my so I consider myself reformed, but I'm not Familiar with what that is. Well.

Obviously those who are reformed would simply view that as being a consistently biblical hermeneutic that is not overridden by certain issues Which normally are unbiblical in their origination specifically?

Any concept of human autonomy. External philosophical considerations necessary to prop up a particular philosophical system. Whatever it might be. It's also Reformed hermeneutic would allow For the highest view of Scripture.

In other words, there are there are some perspectives today where you cannot Go beyond merely a narrow context because you cannot assume the consistency of an author with himself can assume the consistency of authors with each other in other words you cannot even address issues of a canonical approach because you don't believe that the Bible's consistent with itself anyways, and so you have to stop at a certain point and You can't you can't move on from there.

So When I would hear someone say a reformed hermeneutic, I would imagine it'd be they're just simply referring to Allowing the scripture to interpret itself in teaching things that are offensive to the natural man specifically The sovereignty of God is holiness his complete otherness Man's deadness and sin, etc, etc.

And instead of just filtering those things out allowing those things to enter into one's interpretation of a text I don't think there would be fundamentally any real difference at the at the text level any sound form of hermeneutics is going to take into consideration of course the The language and the context and the author and so on so forth the flow of thought things like that.

But it is amazing to me. Just yesterday. We we had a gentleman in channel. And he was there for hours. I mean The the regular folks were taking shifts talking to this fellow and going back over the same issues and when you see someone like that or You know a well-known example a Norman Geisler Looking at John 644 and coming to the conclusion that ah, there's human free will.

That's the kind of thing where you go. Wow I guess there is an Arminian hermeneutic I guess That needs to be identified and and that is one that inserts that concept of human autonomy into every text that it's other than counters.

And so maybe the term reformed hermeneutics is just meant to respond to To that kind of really non hermeneutic that doesn't allow the scripture to speak as a whole. So, when did you when did you take that class.

It was a couple of years ago. I took it my I Think it was my sophomore year. Okay.

So it's been it's been about two years. Yeah. Well, it's uh, I understand that Dr. Barrett's gonna be teaching out at Golden Gate in the fall, and I'm hoping to run into him again because When I first I was at Grand Canyon when dr. Barrett first arrived there and began teaching and Took seven years of Greek with him.

And when I started Greek with dr. Barrett He had hair and of course by the time we got done most of the that on the top it disappeared. So I've often accredited myself with that some. So anyways, good man, okay.

Thank you, sir. Thank you. All right. God bless eight seven seven seven five three three three four one and dr. Barrett, of course studied under Jay Niles Puckett who studied under a T Robertson. So there's there's my my Greek Heritage there as far as Greek professors go going back quite quite some distance there.

Let's go on up to Colorado and talk with Bill. Hi Bill. Oh, yeah. There are Jehovah's Witnesses on the internet. Oh, no. Yeah, they've been around for a while in fact back before Back just as you know, AOL was still most people's access to the internet.

I remember Spending far too much time in AOL chat rooms With well, actually wasn't even chat rooms. It was message board type things. With this one Nick of a Jehovah's Witness and this this this person could produce Volumes overnight.

It was incredible. We learned later on It was five different Jehovah's Witnesses that were using the same login and they're tag-teaming everybody and nobody could possibly keep up with them because they were there was just.

That's I think that's how they're fulfilling their service ministry duty. Actually, I'm not sure if the society lets him get away with that anymore. But anyways, yes, there are lots and lots of Jehovah's Witnesses on the net and what did this one have to say?

Well, you know that takes us back to The debate that I did with with Greg Stafford back in 2003 I believe now my that sounds like a long time ago coming up on five years ago now where we address this very issue and the the Internet's version of Jehovah's Witnesses.

You got to realize you're you are watching or Experiencing a major change in the society up until the advent of the Internet. The witnesses were pretty much insulated From any contact that they did not initiate with Christians.

In other words, you know going door-to-door. You're gonna hear certain things but they can sort of control when they pack up their book bag and head out the door. Up until that time they lived in a very very controlled society of Jehovah's Witnesses and they were told not to read anti-witness books and things like that and so.

That has changed a great deal over the past 20 -25 years now with the especially over the past 15 with the advent of the Internet. The society has tried to crack down on Witnesses who utilize the Internet in the sense of putting up websites defending watchtower doctrine.

They don't want them doing that kind of thing. They want to control how they do that kind of stuff. And so Despite that those that do continue to actively proselytize on the Internet tend to know each other and they tend to read each other's materials and borrow from each other and so the mechanism that Greg Stafford and those associated with him even though he may be very critical of society today on his theology of God Still remains quite Jehovah's Witness along those lines what they've decided to do is to try to blunt The normal arguments that Christians present.

They recognize that the idea of a God Inevitably leads to at least he no theism one main God with lesser deities or some sort of polytheistic idea it is a compromise of Absolute monotheism and so they try to create categories that will allow them to maintain absolute monotheism while in essence Containing Jesus in a lesser a lesser position a a relative position and What you've encountered is that kind of an idea?

And so what Christians need to be prepared to do is To demonstrate that the presentation of Jesus in the New Testament What is given to Jesus what is claimed by Jesus and for Jesus in the New Testament is?

Utterly inappropriate. For this kind of relative worship that they want to assign to Jesus this doing obeisance to him this idea that he is a God a Sub-deity in the sense of someone who saves someone from a pool being their Savior, but not the ultimate Savior blah blah blah blah blah what needs to be pointed out to them is that Jesus is presented in such a fashion as to In essence jettison that kind of a concept and so what I did is I went to a Revelation chapters 4 and 5 I Demonstrated that the worship that is given to Jesus to the Lamb and to he who sits on the throne in Revelation chapter 5 is the same worship.

It's not some lesser worship. There's no distinction made between who he who sits upon the throne and the Lamb is to the worship that is given the praise that is Given etc. Etc. Etc. So that's just one of a number of places you can go of course Jesus own words in John chapter 17 Where he talks about sharing the glory the glory which he had in the Father's presence before the world was and Jehovah says he will Give his glory to none other they might try to then argue a relative glory, but again It really isn't any one Text that you go to it is an entire teaching of Scripture that demonstrates that the worship that Christ receives the The functions that are his the names are given to him.

The fact that Christians are known as those who call upon his name epical a turn for prayer all of these things together present the truth about Christ and and remember one of the primary problems that Christians have when Speaking to any cult or false false group Whatever their background or that whatever their ploy might be is That they will often get you into this Situation where okay?

Here's one text they argue with you about that text. And if you can't just absolutely demonstrate beyond all question exactly what the answer that text is well. That's deadlock and now we move to another one.

We just look at one text we're always looking at just the trees rather than the forest and I use this analogy first with the Mormons, and they're they're attempting to get around the first vision information the information demonstrates that Joseph Smith's first vision did not take place in the spring of 1820 and I've said it's it's a little bit like Recognizing that theoretically.

When you are in a landslide when you are in an avalanche theoretically on paper. You could dodge each rock. That's coming at you but avalanches don't come at you one rock at a time, and that's the problem and Truth biblical truth needs to be viewed in the same way.

It's not like well you have the truth in one verse. And then you have the truth in another verse and so you dodge this one. Then you dodge that one then you dodge the next one see if we present it in that way.

We are in essence letting them try to dodge the avalanche one rock at a time because we're only rolling one rock down the hill at a time. Truth doesn't have that nature and so it helps if we see the entirety of The presentation of who Christ is because then we will not you know these people will not be allowed To get away with what they're in essence getting away with when they they dodge the single rock at a time so it's the same thing with the deity of Christ the same thing with with when it when we speak of him as as God, what is it that we are actually saying and How do we demonstrate that and you can demonstrate from a number of different perspectives that the idea?

This is just some lesser creature who is in a in a very narrow context being called a deity. But is not in any other context appropriately identified as God just simply doesn't work so. But that does require.

I mean there are very few groups that require as much in-depth biblical knowledge. Especially of the Doctrine of God then Jehovah's Witnesses do because they spend so much time preparing to respond to us that Surface level brief responses from us generally are ineffective in that context.

All right. Thank you, okay I hope that was helpful to you bill. If it was all right. Thanks for calling 8 7 7 7 5 3 3 3 4 1. I do have a Zakir Nike thing I want to play eventually, but I I had just found it on YouTube because I download the whole file from another source and What I've been doing since I've been rowing more recently is is watching this stuff while rowing drives my family nuts.

You know they come out in the morning, and here's this guy Rattling off Arabic phrases and quoting the Quran and I'm sitting there rowing away on the rowing machine watching all this stuff and it's just like wow.

That's really exciting and they just sort of go someplace else because they don't find that to be very exciting. But anyway, I Didn't have the right file. Well, I've only got four minutes for the program.

Let's see if I can find this on YouTube and I found it, but it's a 55-minute file. So I wasn't I was I've got it downloaded now. So during the break, hopefully I'll be able to find exactly Looking for so we can listen to that after after the break, but first let's Let's go all the way out to Florida and talk with Tamra.

Hi Tamra. Hi. How are you doing? Good good.

I was wondering my husband and I were talking last night about how airmen part airmen gets quoted by Muslims now. Mm-hmm. And we were wondering if there are other atheists or other people that the Muslims like to use and I mean former Christians not I Guess former Christians is what I'm what we were talking about.

Mostly that they quote that.

We aren't familiar with besides him. Hmm. Well, he's certainly the favorites. Shabir Ali Has has made a career out of digging out Various and sundry liberal Christians, for example the her name's Femi Phoenix, whatever name was.

He quoted a a ultra liberal female Roman Catholic scholar from Boston College in In our debate at Biola in support of his claim that the Gospel of Thomas Is actually older than the Gospel of Mark and so.

They're they're more than happy to use any source, but I don't know of I don't know very many quote-unquote former Christians who are overly favorited by the Muslims other than Bart Ehrman just off the top my head.

But they they will use any source Whatsoever whether it be former Christian or even better current quote-unquote Christian, but of course The one of the main problems with this type of argumentation is they are utilizing the vague Definition of Christian while using a very specific definition of Muslim.

They would never let us get away with that kind of definition of Islam. If we wanted to quote a in fact, they're very angry when when the when the media does this I should note in passing that as I read Various resources on the net especially Islamic resources on the net.

They're they're really upset when former Muslims or quote-unquote liberal Muslims are Interviewed in the media. Why don't you let us speak for ourselves, you know, they they get very very angry. Especially when they're former Muslims, but then they'll turn around and have no problem whatsoever Quoting a quote-unquote former Christian as if somehow he should have more weight or something like that than than anybody else does so there's a there's a tremendous inconsistency in the utilization of resources on the part of Islamic apologists, but As far as as that particular question goes, I don't know anybody other than Bart Ehrman who is quite as popular amongst them and of course popular amongst the radical atheists like Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins and people like that Fred Harris then then is Bart Ehrman.

Does Bart Ehrman consider himself an atheist? He considers himself an agnostic. Now most atheists consider agnosticism just wimpy atheism, but He he says I don't think we can know. I'm not saying there is no God.

I just don't see any evidence that compels me to believe that there is and He says but one thing I am certain of is if there is a God He doesn't look anything like or in any way Is any way similar? To the Christian God.

Okay, great, okay. Thanks for answering my question, okay. Thank you. Thanks for calling. Bye. Bye. Eight seven seven seven five three three three four one. Let's go over to California and talk with Johnny.

Hi, Johnny.

How are you James? I'm pretty good. But the really complicated questions that you could try to tackle it for me that there was the first one is. What was the issue. Because I'm very ignorant about this.

I know very little bit about it. What was the issue between?

Vantill. Read something about it. Read something about about 15 years ago. Don't have a clue anymore. Don't know don't. I've never make no claims to being a Vantill expert in any way shape or form. Read his books read them had to read them more than once just simply to figure out what it's about.

But as to any specifics of Gordon Clark There are thousands who can answer that question better than me. Make no make no claim to expertise in that area. Okay.

The second part then because I've actually heard that, you know, John frame and Dr. Bonsman have both studied under you know. And apparently there there has been among those who have that have had some disagreements on some areas I'm not really well read as to what those particulars are and Like I listened to it where he actually emphasized the fact that the dr Bonson's the apologetic approach was not identical to dr Vantill because he didn't develop the the comp covenantal aspect of it.

Do you know much about that? Nope.

Nope and You can ask about eschatology. You can ask about Buddhism Hinduism. I'll have the same answers to all those two. Nope. I Am aware of differences between frames approach and Bonson's approach but I Do not even begin to pretend to waste folks time giving you any comments on that because I It's not something that I spend my time reading on and wouldn't have any meaningful comment to make.

All right. Okay. Sorry Johnny. Thanks a lot. No problem. Bye. Bye. I Have never claimed to be encyclopedic having encyclopedic knowledge. There are just certain things I just go. You know what? I Could spend my time pursuing that or I can spend my time pursuing this.

It's not my area. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna pretend to know stuff I don't know and Johnny there does seem to feel that I have all knowledge however, because he will call in on a call-in program where I have No, I've got I've got a computer in front of me, but I can hardly you know Have time to be looking stuff up and doing research in 12 seconds.

And he'll ask about You know some decree by some Pope in 1312 and Is the Latin verb there in the passive or the active, you know? I mean, and I just look at this and I just fake my head sometimes and go how in the world could anyone ever know?

That you have to admit that boy has got an interesting range of curiosity. Areas, although I've got an excellent sound but I've got a clip from that where he says, do you know anything about that you go?

Nope. Yep, just grab that soundbite and we'll start making commercials. That's that's fine. You know, I Wow, you know you know it happens in channel to you know, people just pop in the channel all the time and Once they find out who I am all of a sudden evidently I I don't I I'm not supposed to be working or anything I'm supposed to just stop everything I'm doing and you know start rewriting my books for them and it's just like Okay, all right, well, you know.

But you know, it's it's worthwhile pointing out once again as we've done in the past we haven't done it for a while and that is that unlike other shows that claim to Have all Bible and Bible related knowledge We don't go down that road.

We have a specific range of topics and areas That you you deal with and you've never claimed to be, you know All things to all people or be the complete answer man.

Shall we say no on all things and I won't try to help the person at the door either Someone's probably looking for looking for the school or something as Often as the case around here. Anyway, it's 7 7 7 5 3 3 3 4 1 is the phone number and Like I said during the break coming right up I will see if I can find the Zachary Nike section that I wanted to look at here and If I can then then I'll play that for you and then I I got a phone call Not a phone call.

I'm sorry. I got an email When was it? I think it was before the weekend and William William was was telling us that he was gonna be calling today and Unless I didn't respond to his email, which I I did said.

Well, there's only one One dividing line this week. It'll be on Tuesday. So That's it. So whether he calls a day or not I have no way of knowing but we will we will find out when when the phone rings I suppose 8 7 7 7 5 3 3 3 4 1 is the phone number and I'm stretching things out here until I can find out from rich who's running around doing various things out there when we're gonna do that and Trying to decide whether I want to play a clip from from William anyways, because in since he's sent me the note, I'm sort of like whatever and One of the things that he's been bouncing up and down repeatedly about recently has been you Misquoted Augustin you are so bad and I found out I found out what the misquote was Today and he's right.

I Had a typographical error of one letter. Yeah one one letter And it's from a text file that I've had for I don't know how long and it's the difference between the word Eve and Even on The even or on the Eve.

That's it I'm just making Augustin say things. He never thought to say because of one letter I I saw it as sort of sit there staring at this thing Wow what must it be like to to to think that's somehow a relevant thing really hard to Really hard to comprehend.

Anyways, let's see if I can find that soccer Nike thing here And we'll take our break and be back with your calls to eight seven seven, seven five three three three four one everyone.

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And welcome back to the dividing line right as the music was starting. I found found the clip. Yes, yes. Yes, and we have it turned down. So it's not gonna make all sorts of noises. Okay, right as we got the music started.

I found the clip I was looking for in this Zakir Naik Lecture which is is in front of a group of of Muslims and he's actually Lecturing on Muhammad in various religious scriptures. He he began with With Hindu scriptures and stuff like that and I was sitting here going man never heard of half this stuff.

But then he started into the Christian scriptures and of course I'm familiar with all the arguments there as far as in the Old Testament and of course going to really Zakir Naik I I don't want to be unnecessarily offensive.

But he Vast majority of the time he's doing nothing But regurgitating Achaemenid word-for-word sometimes even including hand gestures. I mean, you know Amongst Reformed Baptists the most famous preacher of them all hails from from Montville, New Jersey Al Martin and You can to this day go to many churches Reformed Baptist churches the United States and it's like there's a little Al Martin staying in the pulpit because people will preach just like Al Martin and they will mimic his his intonations and his forms and even his movements and if you've seen Martin and you see that you see the impact that someone can have and and to a certain extent that's Understandable, but goodness when you're when you're quoting word-for-word for years The same stuff it does get a little bit interesting.

But anyway Zakir Naik is talking about Just now starting in this presentation the section on The Christian scriptures, but he starts off by telling a joke that Achaemenid didot told and I've heard didot tell it and It's funny if I'm gonna play it I'm gonna let it play through to the end because he's gonna quote from the from the Quran where specifically we are told by the Quran to Present arguments for Allah that are that are beautiful arguments.

Well if he thinks this is a beautiful argument Then once again, we have one of those situations where people just don't seem to understand what Christians believe and Some people might identify this as a blasphemous argument and in a sense it might be but what makes this blasphemous is that any knowledgeable Christian recognizes this isn't relevant to Christianity to begin with and You may have seen On YouTube Achaemenid didot tell this joke because I believe he told it in the same section.

I've been working through for a couple months now in the same video, so if you've looked at that and Managed to make it through because the rather poor quality Then you will recognize it. But here here is Zacher Nikes Version of it and the only problem with the dividing line is I can't show these things to you because The camera a couple time cuts out to the audience who are Laughing uproariously at at the punchline and the conclusion of this particular story, but let's let's listen in.

Before we discuss that I would like to relate to you an incident which took place between Reverend Paul Fender and Maulana Rehmatullah Karanvi. Before we go to independence Reverend Paul Fender asked Maulana Rehmatullah Karanvi to have a debate.

The Maulana said that I don't know English. I only know Urdu. So after a few months Paul Fender he learned Urdu and said okay now I know Urdu. Let's have a debate in Urdu. So during the debate Paul Fender said that why don't you start?

So Maulana Sahib said since you are our guest you should start first. So Reverend Paul he said That is your Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. Is he dead or alive? So Maulana Sahib said that spiritually he's alive.

He's Hayat-un-Nabi, but physically he's dead. He's buried in Medina. The next question the Reverend asked That where is your Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him now? So the Maulana thought for a while and said that he is next to Allah subhanahu wa ta 'ala in Jannat-e-Firdaus.

The Reverend asked the next question. There was your Prophet. Let me just pause it there for a second in case you're wondering where he's saying He was he's saying that he is in the highest level of Jannah the highest level of heaven.

It's reserved as really sort of for Muhammad. Muhammad has a special place in in heaven in the very presence of Allah, it's got a lot of parallels to be honest with you with Position of Jesus as a mediator and and stuff like that, but that's what he's saying as to where Muhammad is.

During the Battle of Karbala. So the Maulana gave the same reply with Allah subhanahu wa ta 'ala in Jannat-e-Firdaus. So Maulana asked the next question Where was he when his grandson Hussain and Hassan may Allah be pleased with them when they were being martyred in Karbala?

Where was the Prophet. The Maulana paused for a while and then said That he was with Allah subhanahu wa ta 'ala in Jannat-e-Firdaus. So the Reverend asked the next question when your Prophet was with Allah subhanahu wa ta 'ala with God Almighty when his Grandsons were being killed.

Why didn't he request? Why didn't he tell God Almighty to save his grandsons? So there was a long pause Maulana Sahib was silent and the Muslim audience thought Maulana Sahib gay. Now he's gone. What will he answer?

There was a long pause so the reverend said Maulana Sahib. Why don't you answer? Why didn't your Prophet tell God Almighty to save his grandson when he was with Allah subhanahu wa ta 'ala. After a long pause the Maulana said Allah subhanahu wa ta 'ala cried.

The reverend said what Allah cried. He said yes Allah said when I could not save my own son from the cross, how will I save your grandsons? This is battle of wits. The Holy Quran says speak with Hikmah Qudu ila sabili rabbika bil hikmah wal mawzatil hasna wa jaadilum billat ya ahsan.

That is invite all the way of their Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching and argue with them and reason with them in the ways That are best and most gracious.

So here's here's the argument is that the the minister is basically saying well. Where was Allah when his grandsons were being martyred? I'm sorry. Where was Muhammad when his grandsons were being martyred and.

The response from God is well if I couldn't save my own son from the cross, then how could I save your grandsons and. At least in the DDOT video you could hear the audience laughing. You could see them in the video here on my screen.

But you couldn't hear them in in audio, but they they got a nice little chuckle out of that. The problem of course being that it's then followed up with this preach to them with wisdom and and beautiful preaching.

Well if one of the 99 excellent names of Allah Is that he is truth if Allah is truth? Then shouldn't the arguments you use to vindicate and present Allah likewise be true. Should they not be marked by?

Truthfulness and hence accuracy in what they represent. Because if anyone would read the Bible at least all of the Bible in its own context rather than just taking a little piece here. And a little piece there and and pulling it all out and and everything.

It doesn't agree with the Quran you just ignore it and and you refuse to interpret it in its own context. And what it how it read long before Muhammad ever came along if you actually read the New Testament in its own language.

What does it say? Does it say that God the Father? Was trying to save Jesus from the cross. That this was beyond his control. It was beyond his power. This was just something that evil men did is. Is that really what is presented to us in Scripture?

And and if it's not then the question I have of Zakir Naik and Ahmadinejad and and all of the lesser luminaries of the Islamic world who keep repeating these particular arguments is. Why don't you use arguments that would actually be relevant to well-read Christians?

Now I recognize there are a lot of ignorant people who call themselves Christians who have no interest in the Word of God. They don't take the time to study the Word of God or learn the Word of God. And if those the only people that you are interested in converting.

Let me give you a warning if they weren't interested in their Christianity. There's a really good chance. They'll probably not be interested in their Islam either. You know, so if that's the kind of converts you want well Honestly, that's that's not of great concern to me because if someone is an apostate Christian.

And they become something else their eternal destiny has not changed. I Cannot be concerned about nor should it bother me when a Hypocritical Christian a false Christian becomes something else. They were going to the same.

They had the same eternal destiny where they were sitting in a Christian church or where they're sitting in a mosque. Doesn't make any difference. In in both cases, they have not bowed the knee to the Lordship of Christ.

So You know, they're not difficult. It's not difficult to snatch those folks. That's that's not overly overly hard to do. So what kind of people do you really want to get is the question that I have to ask these folks the reality is That the scriptures if they were to be read in in some sort of context.

If you would go to for example the preaching of the early church. You would see and in their prayers in Acts chapter 4 for truly in the city. They were gathered together against your Holy Servant Jesus whom you anointed both Herod and Pontius Pilate Along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.

It was God's intention it was God's purpose that is fulfilled in the cross of Christ and. So while we know that you reject the cross based upon a single ayah that has no Hadith interpretation attached to it that goes against To the natural reading of two other texts of the Quran in surah 3 and surah 19.