Matt Slick Live: August 1, 2024

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The following program is recorded content created by The Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live!

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Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at karm .org.

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When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers. Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877 -207 -2276.

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Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick. You're listening to Matt Slick Live.

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I hope you're all going to have a good day. If we get some callers in here, we can talk about all kinds of stuff.

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The number, as usual, is 877 -207 -2276.

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You can give me a call. And also, if you want, you can email me.

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That's easy to do. Just send an email to info at karm .org, info at karm .org.

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And we'll get to just put a subject line, radio comment, radio question. And we'll get to it.

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Now, yesterday, someone asked me about the position on the rapture.

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And what I did, I threw an article together today and wrote it quickly. And it's on the

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Karm home page. So if you were to go to the Karm home page and just check it, what's

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Karm's position on the rapture. And what I did, I stated in there that, you know,

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I believe pre - and post -trib rapture views are within orthodoxy. However, my personal position is

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I'm post -trib rapture. And I don't even know, seriously, I don't even know what the positions are of the people that work with me.

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I don't. But they said pre, okay, whatever. So I wrote this article on why

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I hold to post -trib rapture. We talked about it yesterday. And people were requesting it. So I did put that up.

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And I'll polish it a little bit later. But I think it's a pretty good, pretty strong argument because of what Jesus himself says.

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So you can check it out. All right? Let me see what you think. You can argue with it. If you see any flaws in it, call me up, let me know, and I can polish it.

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And we'll see. All right. All right. Okay.

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8772072276. Let's get to Ebenezer from California. Ebenezer, welcome. You are on the air.

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Hey, Matt. I just want to add just one quick question. Is theosis biblical? It depends on what is meant by theosis.

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But generally speaking, theosis in the Eastern Orthodox view is the teaching that we become like God.

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Now, I've got notes. I think I actually do have my file open. So let me go to it and see if I can find some quotes from their view.

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And then we'll discuss if it's biblical or not. So let's see.

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Here we go. Come on. Let's get right to there. And all right. By virtue...

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This is what it says. So this is a quote from the Orthodox Way.

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By virtue of this distinction between the divine essence and the divine energies, we are able to affirm the possibility of a direct or mystical union between man and God, what the

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Greek fathers term the theosis of man, his, quote, deification. Now that's a problem because in one sense, it says a union between man and God.

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And we do have that when God is indwelling us. We have a kind of union. So loosely, okay, if they say that's what theosis is, is a union with us, with God, with where Christ indwells us,

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I don't like the term, but I'd say, okay. But when they say our deification, that's a problem.

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Deity is the quality of being God. So when they say our deification, what they're saying, and I've read some church fathers on this, what they're saying is that it's becoming more like Christ in a very, very real internal way.

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Now, that's worth a discussion, and there's some problems. So here's another quote, a basic guide to Eastern Orthodox theology.

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It says, the forming of human children to be equivalent to God's is only possible because Christ has enabled believers to share in the divine life which he made incarnate.

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Salvation understood as sharing in God's nature is explicit in many places in the Bible, such as 2

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Peter 1, verses 3 -4, which says that Jesus, through his divine power, has given us all things that pertain to life and godliness that we may be partakers in the divine nature.

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So you can see what's going on. It's a problem, the way they say this, what's going on with it.

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And when I talk to Eastern Orthodox people about theosis, they're not saying that we actually become

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God or become divine, but we become Christ -like, and then they want to say

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God -like. And they keep doing this. They keep having one foot in orthodoxy and one foot in heresy, and they kind of lean back and forth depending on what part of the conversation they want to get to.

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And I'm very uncomfortable with that. And so basically I would say, no, theosis, if it means becoming

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God -like ontologically, absolutely not. If it means simply, well, becoming

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Christ -like, becoming sanctified, then it's not a problem. But that's not, it does not seem how they appear to be using it.

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OK, so here's another quote. Go ahead, go ahead. I'll quote you another one after. Go ahead.

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So, so, so you think they could be using that like in, you know, trying to, trying to, in a deceptive type of manner or?

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No, they're not being, they're not being deceptive. They're not intending to deceive anybody at all.

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So let me read another quote, which hopefully will clarify some things. Theosis is not pantheism in which creation is equivalent to God, nor is theosis borrowed from the

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Eastern religions in which the individual human is expected to ultimately become absorbed into one impersonal cosmic reality.

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Nor does participation in the divine nature suggest that a created being can actually become divine.

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So that's what I've heard from them. We don't become divine. But then they go to 2 Peter 3, or 2

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Peter 1, excuse me, they talk about partaking in the divine nature. And I can never get exactly what they mean by that, because the

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Bible doesn't tell what that means, doesn't say. So they, they say things, and it's just, I always get nervous when

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I'm talking about them, it's like, but guys, you're making it sound like you've become God. No, we're not becoming God, but we're becoming

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God, like God. What do you mean becoming like God? Well, by participating in the divine nature.

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What does that mean? And then they give me some ramblings. And, uh, it's, so it's a tough one, but, uh, it depends on how they were to define it.

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Okay. Yeah. I mean, that's the same, that's the same, um, feeling I got when

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I talked to him. Um, and I, I felt the same way. So I just wanted to get you to, uh, you know, have you cleared up for me real quick?

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Well, I don't think I did. I mean, I think you should have the same realization that I do, that it's a bit confusing on how they're, they're using the term.

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There seems to be an inconsistency. So, you know, what I wish

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I could have access to is, um, is, uh, access to an expert in, in, uh,

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Eastern theology, Eastern Orthodox theology, uh, who could then I could say, well, here's the question. And then we go through and I ask very detailed questions.

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Is any, is there any transference of the divine nature into the divine nature of man?

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Does the divine nature of man, I mean, does the nature of man, excuse me, does there any divine in transfer the divine nature of God into the nature of man?

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If so, does the nature of man become deified in the sense that it's on toss? Its essence is then

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God -like. And I don't mean God -like, but in the on toss, they have to know what I'm talking about. And these are the kinds of questions

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I have to ask. I really need to get very deep. What's the name?

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Um, also, uh, cause I've seen that in a catechism, Catholic catechism as well.

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You think it's the same way for that as well? Yeah, there's something to that as well.

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Uh, in fact, let me open up my file on Catholicism. It'll take 10 seconds, but it's a huge file.

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And, uh, I think it's in paragraph four 60. I'll have to find it. Uh, when

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I get it open here, it talks about becoming gods and the, the thing, the concern about open up here.

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Boy, it's taking a long time. Uh, yeah, let's just do it this way. It didn't open up.

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It should open up. Well, there it goes. Okay. Yeah. It's just a, it's a big file.

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Okay. I have a fast computer too. All right. So there's this phrase, paragraph four 60.

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That's right. Okay. So this is what it says. I'm gonna read the whole thing.

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Uh, the word became flesh. Oh, and before I do this, what this paragraph is in the catechism of the

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Catholic church, paragraph four 60 is a series of quotes. The quotes, it looks like are taken out of the church fathers.

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Okay. Now when, and I wrote an article on this, when the, when the paragraph is given nothing before and nothing after it, like paragraph four 61 or four 59.

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Neither one of those says we're not teaching. You actually become a God.

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They don't do that. And which is really concerning for me, because this is what paragraph four 60, the

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Catholic catechism says the word became flesh to make us partakers of the divine nature.

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That's a quote. Here's another quote. This is all in the paragraph. One after another quote for this is why the word became man.

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And the son of God became the son of man. So that man, by entering into communion with the word and thus receiving divine sonship might become a son of God.

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Close quote. There's another quote in this paragraph because one after another, these quotes for the son of God became man so that we might become

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God close quote. There's another, the only begotten son of God wanting to make us shares in his divinity assumed our nature so that he made man might make men gods.

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Close quote. So that of course is heresy. And the next paragraph you'd think, uh, uh, when it's set, when so -and -so says might make men,

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God's is not in the sense of actually becoming divine in our nature, but becoming like God in the quality of our sanctification.

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They said something like that. At least that would excuse what's going on, but they don't, they just go into something else.

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So I have a theory about this. I just have a small theory and I'm not saying it's going to happen, but when the antichrist comes and the apostasy of the

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Christian church has already occurred, I can't help wonder if this paragraph in the catechism of the

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Roman Catholic church might be used to justify the idea of our deification and thereby promote even more heresy in the

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Roman Catholic church as the antichrist comes in, uh, because there has to be a great apostasy according to second

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Thessalonians two, three. So that I just wonder that furthermore in the

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Eastern Orthodox, at least I find statements that say we don't become divine ontologically ontological means by the nature and the essence of something.

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So ontologically I'm a human ontologically. I am not a tree. And as a human,

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I have arms, legs. I can see, I can hear, but not all people who are human have arms, legs, can see and can hear, but so humanity is something different than tree ness.

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And so this is what the on toss is. It's the essence of what something is.

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So we are not divine by essence. Could it be though that the

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Eastern Orthodox church is, I think a little bit more Orthodox in this position in that it says, or it seems to say ontologically we don't become

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God, but I have had some Eastern Orthodox people say that it is the case. Now you can't trust with, you know, some where one says

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I need official documents as much as possible. And it's hard to find this stuff. It takes a lot of research to find the right quote, you know?

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So that's what's going on. Don't know if that helps. Okay. Okay. Yeah, it did.

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It did. Uh, thank you. Thank you, Matt. All right. You're welcome. Okay. Well, that's perfect timing.

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There's the break. If you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877 -207 -2276.

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You have nobody waiting on line right now. Why don't you give me a call? I want to interview you. I'll talk to you later. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276.

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Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody. Welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, you can.

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877 -207 -2276. All right. So last night or yesterday show, we had nobody waiting.

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So I'm going to ramble a little bit, fill some time here. I'm going to irritate people because here it goes. So yesterday someone called up and talked about the

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Rapture pre post mid, all that kind of stuff. And, um, Ooh, I just saw, I made a mistake in one of the, one of the, uh, in something.

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And so, uh, I'm always finding stuff.

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I do. Hey, what about that? So what I'm going to do is I'm going to, um, share my screen and I'm going to go through the article that I did, and I'm going to try and show you guys out there very simply why the pre -chip rapture is not true.

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Oh no. Can't be. And I know that a lot of people believe it is true.

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And I think that's okay. If they want to believe that, uh, it's within orthodoxy. It is.

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It's within orthodoxy, but I don't believe it's true. I believe that we are going to go through the tribulation period.

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I believe we're going to suffer. I believe it's going to be tough. And I believe a lot of people are going to be very, uh, very surprised by, uh, by what's happening.

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So I'm going to do something else here too. I got so many things I have to do. I got to clear the cache. And, uh, so there we go.

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So, uh, okay. I'm going to share my screen. I got to redo this. I'm going to go through this. I've got a lot of windows open and I'll go through them and I'm going to read the article.

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Now you can go, if you want, you can go to the site, karm .org, and you can look up or go to the homepage and it'll say, what is karm's position on the rapture?

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Is it pre or post? And so what I'm going to do is go through what

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I have written and, uh, we'll get to it here as soon as I get, I'll get all this stuff going and I'm going to tell you why we are going to go through the tribulation period, why it's going to be bad.

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And the reason I think it's important for us to understand this is because we want to make sure that we are not deceived, that we are not, um, unprepared when things get bad.

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We don't want to be unprepared now, do we? All right. So let's do this. So, uh, if you, if you're looking with me,

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I get plenty of time for people to do that, to look, um, what I'm gonna do is go here, go this and make that bigger.

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There we go. All right. So here we go. Um, I deny the pre -trib rapture and I affirm post -trib rapture because of what

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Jesus said in Matthew 24 three, they asked the disciples or the disciples asked

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Jesus, what will be the sign of your coming in the end of the age? And Jesus tells them that preceding his return, there will be turmoil, including fat wars, famines, tribulation, false prophets, lawlessness, et cetera.

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That's Matthew 24 verses four through 14. And he warned people to flee when they see all this stuff and the abomination of desolation, that's

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Matthew 24 verses 15 to 20. So the Christians or some people have to be there to see the abomination.

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Now, some people, what they'll say is they're going to say, well, you see really what's happening is, um, the, uh, the, the rapture occurs at the pre -trib.

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I'm going to show you where that doesn't work later. The perhaps it's pre -trib rapture. And then the people who are alive and they see the abomination.

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That's what it's talking about. Then you've got to flee. They say so far, there's no problem, Matt. I go, okay, all right, we'll get to it.

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But Jesus says there will be a great tribulation in Matthew 24, 21 through 22.

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He warns people to watch out for the false Christ and false prophets. He says his return.

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Now here's the key. His return is a single return. Sometimes a pre -trib rapture people, what they'll do is they'll say it's a partial return.

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He kind of comes halfway and he meets us in the clouds and he goes back to where he is. That's foreign to scripture.

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It's just not there. There is no half return. He meets us in the clouds and then goes back.

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It doesn't look like that. Okay. It doesn't happen. So he says this for hit.

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He says that return will be just as lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west.

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That's what he says. Okay. So will the coming of the son of man be? That's what he says. Okay. He states that after the tribulation of those days, he will return with a great trumpet.

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That's what he says. After the tribulation of those days, he'll return with a great trumpet.

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Now this is important because in X one, nine through 11, the two angels prophesied, you know, when

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Jesus ascended into heaven, they said, he's going to come back just the same way you saw him, you know, in the heavens with the sky and the clouds.

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So the angels say he's going to return this way. This is how he's going to return. There's no, well, he's going to return mostly as in a, you know, mostly return.

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Not going to happen like that. It's just one return. Christ comes back once in Matthew 24, 29 to 31.

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Jesus says that his return will be after the tribulation. He specifically says, but immediately after the tribulation of those days, the son will be darkened and then the trumpet will go forth and he will bring forth his people.

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Now, when you go to first Thessalonians four, starting at verse 16 through chapter five, verse two,

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Paul, the apostle tells us that Christ's his return, a single return will be with the trumpet of God.

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And that's when the rapture occurs. Now you got to get this understood because Jesus had

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Matthew 24 after the tribulation is when the rapture occurs. He says, that's when the people in the trumpet will be sounded and the people will be, uh, they'll meet him in the clouds.

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Okay. So the summary is this. There's only one return of Christ, not a partial return.

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And that's next one, nine through 11 and Matthew 24, 27, Jesus return is after the tribulation,

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Matthew 24, 29 to 31. And Jesus return is when the rapture occurs. First Thessalonians four, 16 through five, two.

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That's what it is. But wait, there's more. See, Jesus said that at his return, there'll be two men in the field and what'll be taken, what'll be left.

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That's Matthew 24, 40, but that's not the rapture. He says, for as the coming of the son of man will be just like the days of Noah.

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For in those days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage till the day that Noah entered the ark and the flood, or excuse me, they did not understand until the flood came in, took them all away.

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So we'll be the coming of the son of man. Be there'll be two men in the field. One will be taken. One will be left. This is typically said to be the rapture and it absolutely is not.

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Absolutely. It's not in Luke 17, 26 to 27. Check this out. You'll see the parallel.

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Why? And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the son of man, they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage until the day that Noah entered the ark and the flood came and destroyed them all.

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Who were the ones who were destroyed? The ones eating, drinking, marrying, being given in marriage, right?

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Until the day that Noah entered the ark and the flood came and destroyed them. They go back to Matthew 24. It wasn't days of Noah, right?

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They were eating, drinking, marrying, giving in marriage until Noah entered the ark and the flood came and took them all away.

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That's the wicked who were taken. Then it says two men will be in the field. One is taken. One is left. Who's taken?

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This is the wicked. It's not the, it's not the good. Oh, but it gets even worse.

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So, uh, we can see that the one's taken out of the wicked. Now the first one's taken what Jesus says, we'll get to Matthew 13 here.

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And we'll talk about that after the break and I'll show you. And you guys can call me up and you can say, man, you're, you're wrong.

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And I hope I am, but Hey, we'll be right back. Folks after these messages, please stay tuned.

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It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276.

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Here's Matt Slick. All right, buddy. Welcome back to the show. Bottom of the hour. Hope you're enjoying what

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I'm telling you, even if you don't agree. And, um, I'm going to finish this up and then we'll talk about this a little bit and why it's so important.

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All right. Now, um, this is something I discovered years ago and, uh, I know that others have taught it.

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And it took me two years, literally, it took me two years before I would confidently say over the radio, this is what

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I believe the reason took me two years was because I didn't study it all the time. I just read this one.

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Yeah, it's interesting. And occasionally I would look around to see if anybody else had a similar view that the wicked are the ones taken first when

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Christ returns. And I'll show you why I believe that. And, um, I just, you know,

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I couldn't find anybody else who said it. And that concerns me a great deal because, you know,

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I'm just, I'm just a guy. I study a lot, but it doesn't mean I'm right. And so I thought, okay,

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I need to find somebody else who's a, who has the same view and I couldn't find anybody.

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And this is what caused me to think, well, I've got to be missing something, but when I would read the text, but that's what it says.

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And so I just kind of sat on it for a little while. And then finally one day I just said, sorry, but this is what

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I hold to. And this is it. So the, uh, the interesting thing is that we know that in, in, you know, two men in the field, one is taken, one is left.

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That's the wicked. Well, they ask Jesus, they actually ask him. Where are they taken?

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And he answers the question. Uh, Jesus tells us that the wicked are taken in Luke 1737 and answering, they said to him, we said to them, uh, where Lord, and he said, where the body is, the vultures will also be gathered.

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So Jesus is telling us that the ones who were taken, two men are in a field. One is taken.

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One is left where they taken. He answers the question. He answers the question where the body is.

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The vultures will be gathered. Now, what really bothers me a great deal is that of all the churches

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I've been to and all the preachers I've heard, I've not once ever in over 40 years ever heard any preacher teacher say that the ones who were taken are the wicked and they go to a place of destruction, not one.

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I have heard people say, well, two men in the field. One is taken. One is left.

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That's the rapture. And I know for a fact it is not. So why is it this really bothers me?

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Why is it that people who hold to those versus being the rapture, you know, two men in the field, but it's taken when it's left, when it's obviously not, when you read the context, it's just not, why is it they can't figure that out?

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That bothers me a great deal. I've thought about it over the years and I'm thinking maybe it's because they're loyal to their denominations, they're loyal to something they don't really dig deep and maybe they find something that doesn't fit.

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They just dismiss it, go on to something else. I don't know, but it really bothered me a great deal because this is what the

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Bible teaches. So when Jesus talks about the parable of the wheat and the tares, he says, you know, they said, should we tear up the tares?

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He said, no. And Matthew 1330, allow both to grow together until the harvest and the time of the harvest.

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I will say to the reapers first, gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them. I remember there's only one return of Christ.

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And when, and when he comes is after the tribulation and there's only, uh, that's when the trumpet blows and the trumpet blows is when the rapture occurs for Thessalonians four.

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So this has to be that it's all the return of Christ and at the return of Christ, the first one's taken out of the wicked, not the good.

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That took me a long time to start admitting, but that's my position. And maybe I'm wrong. You know,

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I'm not saying, Hey, I, you know, I've got it all figured out, but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe someone can come along and say, Matt, you missed something very significant.

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And I'll be, you know, if they show me, I'll go, you know what? You're right. Hey, thank you. And I'll, I'll just retract what I'm saying. That's not a problem.

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I don't mind being wrong. But this is what he says. The first one's gathered of the tears.

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And then he goes on 10 verses later in Matthew 13, verse 40, just as the tears are gathered up and burned with fire.

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So shall it be at the end of the age. I'm not going to get into the end of the age thing. That's all another thing. The son of man will send forth his angels.

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They'll gather out of his kingdom, all stumbling blocks and those who commit lawlessness. So Jesus tells us the wicked are taken in Matt, uh, to a place of destruction in Luke 17, 37, two men in the field.

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One is taken. One is left. That's the wicked who were taken and are taken to a place of destruction. And it happens at the end of the age.

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That's the harvest at the return of Christ. There's only one return. So here's a summation.

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There's only one return of Christ, not a partial return. That's out of Acts one, nine to 11,

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Matthew 24, 27. Jesus return is after the great tribulation.

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Matthew 24, 29 through 31. Jesus return is when the rapture occurs. First Thessalonians four 16 through chapter five, verse two, two men in the field and one is taken is about the wicked.

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That's Matthew 27, 37 through 40 with Luke 17, 26 to 27.

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The wicked are taken first. Matthew 13, 24 to 30 and, uh,

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Matthew 13, 40 and 41 and the wicked are taken to a place of destruction, Luke 17, 37.

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So what I'm going to do is go through this article again. I'm going to expand it a little bit more, polish it a little bit more because I wanted to get it out today and I spent about two hours on it and put it together.

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So, uh, you know, I'm always checking, always learning. And if you have comments or questions about it, please email me, let me know.

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And, uh, the reason this is so important is because if the pre -tribulation rapture is view view is false, if it is, and people are putting their hopes in that, what's going to happen when the antichrist is there, are there, is their faith going to be destroyed?

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I don't know. What is their faith in? What is their hope in? And this is something I'm concerned about because the

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Christians are not going to get taken out of here. We need to be in the world. And furthermore, what's really interesting is that Jesus says that, uh, the wicked are taken out of his kingdom.

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That means his kingdom must exist for the wicked to be taken out of, which means since there's only one return of Christ and at the return of Christ, the first was taken out of the wicked to a place of destruction that it means that's his kingdom means we're in the kingdom.

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That means we need to be acting like we are in the kingdom of God right now. Well, people say, well, how come the kingdom of God is full of all these troubles because we're not doing our job.

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Jesus is ruling in our hearts among the people that are his and we're to behave like that, but we're not doing it as a, as a whole.

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I firmly believe that the Christian church, if it were to humble itself before God and do whatever's necessary before God to the risk of death, loss of job, family, and everything for the sake of Christ, if Christians started doing this all over everywhere, the world would be changed in just a couple, three, four decades.

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I believe it would happen and we would see an incredible improvement in everything, everywhere, but Christians aren't doing it.

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And because there's going to be an apostasy, the Christians aren't doing their job. The antichrist will come forth. And Jesus says, if those days be not cut short, no flesh would be left.

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I guess so much more I could talk about, but there you go. I teach what's called deprescotology.

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Eschatology is a study of end times. Deprescotology. Let's get to Jermaine. Hey, Jermaine, welcome.

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You're on the air. Oh, hey, Matt. You know, I have to speak on that topic on another call, but I agree with you just, just real quick.

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I think part of the reason people hold to that theology is because they, they want to kind of cover their tail and not have to suffer a little bit, but that's another subject.

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So, but my question was dreams. It came up during a

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Bible study I participated in yesterday and a lot of people are heavy on dreams. And I do believe that, you know,

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God can speak to us through those, but it just seems like a lot of people are very, very loose and liberal with every dream being from God all the time.

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And then when it doesn't happen, you know, they tend to be quiet. At least people

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I know say, hey, what happened to your prophecy? And nothing. But how do you properly interpret dreams, whether they're from God or whether they're just from your own flesh?

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Well, that's a good question. So people are very eager to have dreams and visions and experience and to feel special, to feel in control, to feel privileged, to have hope because a dream can give them hope.

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And in the process, what they're doing is taking their eyes off of Christ a lot of times and the

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Word of God and what it says. I'm not saying all people do this. I do believe that God can give us visions and dreams.

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And I believe that because of what the scriptures teach. You see, we go to, for example,

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Acts 2 .17, I believe it is, it shall be in the last days,

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God says, it'll pour forth my spirit on all mankind, your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your young men shall see visions, your old men shall dream dreams, etc.

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All right. So since we're going to be having dreams and it says old men, does it literally just mean old men? Maybe.

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But for now, what we'll leave is that this kind of thing can happen. And if it does, then how are we to judge them?

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That's the question you're getting at. The the issue is, is it biblical?

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That's the issue that we need to deal with. So hopefully we'll get to that after the break.

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OK, please stay tuned, folks. We'll be right back after these messages. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276, here's

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Matt Slick. Hey, everybody, welcome back to the show. I hope you're having a good time listening.

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Let's get back to Jermaine. Hey, Jermaine, you still there? Oh, yes,

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I am. All right. OK, so I've not written an article on Karm on that, but I'm going to.

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So there's some basic principles. OK, in Acts 217, it says in the last days, many people will prophesy, see visions and have dreams.

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So what should Christians do with those dreams that they think might be from God? The first thing is that they must make sure that anything they dream aligns with scripture.

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If it doesn't, then disregard any dream. Also, make sure that any careful interpretation or any interpretation is done carefully.

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Careful interpretation. Be be careful of it. OK, you see, it's

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God who gives the ability to interpret dreams since they come from him. This is what happened with Joseph in the

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Old Testament with Pharaoh with the dream. God gave him the ability to interpret. Because if the dream is from God, then

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God should give the interpretation. Write this down.

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And also it might be that there are people who can might be gifted with the ability to interpret dreams.

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So we got to be careful about that because in this kind of a thing, it's easy to get a little bit too prideful.

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Look at me, I'm gifted, etc. Be wary of people who claim this kind of a thing.

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And the way to be more sure about them is what's their attitude. Attitude is is incredible, incredibly important.

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Excuse me. When dealing with people who have gifts, are they humble or are they boastful?

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OK, we've got to be careful that they go, you know, I have this gift. Let me just tell me, I'll tell you. You know, the attitude should be something like, well, you know, tell me the dream and let's see.

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And I hope by God's grace I can help you understand it. Maybe I can't, you know, this kind of a difference.

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We should also pray and ask God to give us an interpretation. And once received, we should run the interpretation by other

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Christians to test it. So I think these are the basics of what we need to do about that.

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OK. OK. That sounds good to me.

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OK. OK. Anything else?

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Thanks a lot, Matt. Appreciate you. No, no, I think that was good. That was pretty solid. But yeah, thank you. Appreciate it.

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God bless. God, God, God bless. Thanks. You know, I've not had any dreams, at least

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I remember usually the dreams I have. I don't want to remember them, but maybe some of you out there have had dreams where they've come to pass.

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And I have no problem with that. I know a lot of people in the reform camp have a lot of problem with that. All the gifts have ceased.

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You can't do this. It doesn't happen anymore. I don't buy that. Now, I do say, though.

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That these kinds of charismatic things we're going to be careful of, we're going to be really careful because we don't want to go overboard with them, abuse anything.

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We should be very, very cautious, very, very careful. It takes time, in my opinion, for a person who might thus be gifted of God to learn how to humbly, in service of the body of Christ, to the glory of God, use that gifting.

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And it should be careful. And those kind of gifts are different than like my gifts, for example, my wife says

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I have two gifts. Actually, I can teach. I'm a good teacher and I'm obnoxious. She says I'm gifted in both areas.

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Praise God. I'm going to work on them both to get them better. So my kind of gifting and being able to teach is something different because it's intended specifically for others.

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But dreams and prophecies usually are intended for individuals. And sometimes they can be for the body of Christ, but if it's going to be from the body of Christ, you have better have laid down a good foundation and it better be something special.

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You just got to be careful. There's a lot. It's a bit subjective in some areas. But and that reminds me, that reminds me,

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I also have written another article on what is the gift of the

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Holy Spirit. And I worked on that. And so it'll be released, it'll be released on the 7th.

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I have articles scheduled to be released every other day on Karm. Did one today.

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And so I have up through the 9th and stuff like that, you know, because there's a lot to do, try and get one going every other day.

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So I'm writing a lot, doing a lot of research. Well, the reason I'm talking about this, what is the gift of the

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Holy Spirit? Because I remember a few months ago,

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I was reading through Acts 2 .38 when people were talking about, you know, being baptized in order to be saved.

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And I've had these arguments about this and stuff. At any rate, so I was looking at the gift of the Holy Spirit and it occurred to me one day, the gift of the

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Holy Spirit, the gift of the Holy Spirit, it seems to be the charismatic movement.

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I wonder if that's correct. So I started looking and guess what

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I found? I found that the phrase gift of the

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Holy Spirit only occurs two times in the Bible, at least in the

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NASB. And that's in Acts 2 .38 and Acts 10 .45. And in both of them, both cases, the context is dealing with the movement of the gifts.

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Both times. And in Acts 11 .17,

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it says, therefore, if God gave to them the same gift as he gave to us, also after believing in the

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Lord Jesus, who was I that I could stand in God's way? Now the context of that is that Peter is reporting to Jerusalem about what happened in the city of Joppa.

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Then Peter quotes the words of Christ when he says, John baptized with water, you'll be baptized with the

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Holy Spirit. The baptism of the Holy Spirit occurs in Acts 2 when the

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Holy Spirit is poured out on the people in the upper room and he spoke with tongues. So this gets me thinking,

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I'm just going to think out loud, right or wrong, I'm going to think out loud, that we're justified by faith,

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Romans 5 .1. The Holy Spirit, God, the Trinity, everybody, they live in us.

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We're born again. We're entwined by God. John 14 .23. Okay, the Father and Son live in us. Okay, no problem.

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And so the Holy Spirit is there. And I can't help but wonder if, as in the wedding feast on earth, gifts were always given to the bride.

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And they were for that bride to use. I can't help but wonder if the gifts of the

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Christian Church, the speaking in tongues, word of wisdom, word of knowledge, prophecy, that they are for today.

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I believe they're for today. As a Calvinist, well, I'll tell you, like 1 % of Calvinists hold my position.

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And I can sure make a Calvinist get tweaked. Yeah, I believe in the charismatic gifts. And, you know, they get a little...

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So, you know, it's fun, too, when I do that. And I watch their eyebrows go up, and then, you know, you can see them fidget.

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And I start talking about this stuff. At any rate, you know, after, aside from that, you know,

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I just, I'm starting to believe more and more that,

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I don't know how to say this the right way, because I'm not sure how to say it the right way, that we Christians are endowed and gifted with some great things from God himself, because we've been redeemed, we've been cleansed by the blood of Christ.

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And he has blessed us with every spiritual blessing. And the spiritual blessings also are those movements of the

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Spirit in us. But in order to utilize those gifts, in order to be in those gifts, we can't be seeking money.

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We can't be seeking our own glory. We have to be humbly seeking the glory of the

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Lord Jesus Christ by faith walking, going out into the world, spreading the word, spreading the gospel, teaching people about Jesus and what he's done.

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And in complete dependence upon Christ and what he has done, the Spirit of God will move through us and bring us to that place and give us the ability to use those charismatic gifts for his glory, for the accomplishing of his purpose.

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That's what I believe. And I also believe that today we see so many wackos, you know, in church, speaking in tongues, telling jokes in tongues, the foolishness of such pomposity.

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And that so many people disregard all of it because of that, that kind of a thing. I'm going to say something.

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If you think, if you think you have a gift, a charismatic gift, prophecy, word of wisdom, word of knowledge, tongues, interpretation of tongues, you know, discernment of spirits, if you think you have them,

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I want you to ask yourself, are you being humble about it? I'm not saying you're bad or good. I'm just saying, are you being humble?

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And are you trying to seek that? Because God actually says in 1 Corinthians 14 .1 to seek the spiritual gifts.

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So if we're to do that, you know, I'd like to hear from you. But you've got to take risks sometimes.

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Take risks with people you trust, that you, if you think you have this gift, to see how to use it, to see how it might be for the glory of God, not for yourself.

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Because if it is for your own glory, forget it. That's not how it works. For the glory of Christ, for the edification of the body, for the furthering of the gospel, the expansion of the kingdom of God.

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If in your heart, those are the things and you think you might be gifted, you think maybe you're not sure, it's okay.

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I'd recommend that you find some friends you can trust and talk to them about it. And then see if you can try exercising those gifts in their presence or you report to them.

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And if it turns out you're messing up pretty badly and getting a lot of things wrong, that's okay.

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There's no shame in that. Because this stuff is not easy. This stuff is difficult.

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And how do we use those gifts for the glory of God? They're there. They are there.

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Because at Pentecost, when the Spirit came upon the people, they spoke in tongues.

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In Acts 10, they glorified God. The gift of the Holy Spirit isn't just his presence. I believe it's more.

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I believe it's the gifting that he has for each one of us for the furthering of the gospel.

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Because the gospel is a supernatural thing. It's the power of God to salvation,

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Romans 1 and 16. And it needs the power of God behind it.

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And I believe that we, if we are humble before him, seeking, trusting, and moving forward, that God might very well bless us with certain instances and times where we move that way for his glory, for the benefit of others.

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I think that's what we need to be looking at. Yeah, I do believe in the charismatic gifts.

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I believe in all of them. I believe they're for today. And maybe I'm wrong. That's what

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I think. That's what I believe. And that's why. So anyway, there you go.

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Hey, just want to remind you that we stay on the air by your support. Please consider supporting us. Just go to karm .org,

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C -A -R -M dot O -R -G forward slash donate. If you don't want to, that's fine.

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But check out the website, karm .org. We have a lot of articles there. And one last thing,

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I will not be on the air all next week. I've got some errands to do and some stuff to do.

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So I'm going to take all that week off and do some other things, too. And I'll be back after that.

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But tomorrow, I'll be online. Lord willing, hopefully we'll talk to you then. May the Lord bless you. And oh, by his grace, we'll see you.

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I'm going to be on strivingforeternity .org, strivingforeternity .org tonight, talking about the antichrist and stuff like that.