Dr. White Tells Mormon That He's Wrong

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This is this is biblical thought and he says in 1st Corinthians chapter 4. I believe that's the text

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He says not to go beyond that which is written Not to go beyond that which is written in other words.

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Don't go beyond that which is written We're not to as Christians to go outside of What God's revealed word is so the standard from Old Testament to new is the

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Word of God is the principium It's the foundation It's the reference point and I just want to point out to you in terms of your defense of Joseph Smith and his revelation

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You didn't appeal to anything in terms of what does God say you've applied some secondary standard

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Which I would say is foreign to scripture. Um, so well, that was a there was a large buffet of things

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Uh, so I'll try to respond to all so the first one is it's not that the the God of the

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Book of Mormon is In from the God of the Bible. It's the same God. It's just that the Protestant Reformation and the European doctrine

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Of the Bible is not the the true interpretation of it. So it's not that we have a different God It's it's the same

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God I just think you folks are a little misread in your understanding of the Bible So I think in terms of the verses that I gave you though, okay so It also says in Deuteronomy, you know that you should not add on to this text and things like that And if that was true would discount the the entire

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New Testament when it says don't add on to the Revelation It means don't add to that specific Revelation. I'm not I didn't bring that up though That's a distortion of anything.

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I mean, you just said not to add on did you not I may have misheard you No, there's a lot. Please repeat then. I think

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I may have I think I may miss Yeah, it's the same all all of what I just gave to you just now from say Deuteronomy to Isaiah to Matthew Mark and 1st

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Corinthians with the Apostle Paul and a number of other references all of it's the same theme So it's not

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I haven't given you a lot of things to think about if they given you one thing to think about in terms of a thematic thing from Scripture is that the standard from the biblical authors and inspired prophets and Apostles and from Jesus is

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That the Word of God is the central reference point and it's the thing by which you test and measure any other revelatory claims absolutely

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I agree and when I was pointing out to you is that you you didn't agree with that earlier in terms of you said the

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Way to test Joseph Smith's Revelation is by the Book of Mormon linguistics archaeology these sorts of things and I'm pointing out to you

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That is not what God says to do to test a prophet. He says according to his word. Well, thank you

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Actually, thank you for saying that I'd like to clarify if I if I gave any false impressions The Holy Spirit is what convicts you and and I think anyone who who's seen anything

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I've done knows that that is always why I go to first But if you would like to have that oftentimes

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I talk to evangelicals They want to know they want to say they want they want They want evidence of the

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Book of Mormon and they want archaeological evidence and I give it to them and they're often like that's not Yeah, well, that's the example

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I gave I wasn't saying that's how you trust you test the Book of Mormon It's a way evidence is good

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But evidence alone is just it's just man -made finding if you're if you're if your discipleship was built by a man It'll be destroyed by man as well

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So I will so no my way to test the Book of Mormon does not hold Holds up completely to scientific research.

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It's it is with the Holy Spirit I mean in terms of Joseph Smith's Revelation because when you introduce that subject you said it in terms of knowing whether or not what?

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He said was true. Yeah, and a good way to test that is the Book of Mormon and there's a spiritual test but if you want to be, you know, less less spiritual with it and more

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Archaeological with it you can also do that and it wins both it's reliable spiritually and we have evidence

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Let's do that. We're going on the same course here So in terms of spiritually from the same God the disclosure is the same

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God has disclosed himself He's revealed himself to us. God says here's how you're to test a prophet according to my word in my previous revelation

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So when I look at Joseph Smith's revelation say in the King Follett discourse and I compare that revelation

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With what God has told us about himself for millennia before Joseph Smith came and revealed himself.

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I disagree with even that phrasing. So What do you disagree with there? I disagree with your phrasing making it sound as if that the

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Bible just says one thing in the Josephine thought a new thing It's it's consistent. That's what I'm getting to you. Yeah, so I haven't got a chance to express what

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I'm what I'm getting at so in terms of in scripture We have a revelation from Genesis to sorry.

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Yeah revelation from Genesis to the book of Revelation this spans Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years and all these different authors all the different books and letters and yet There's this unified message and thread from God his own revelation of himself

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He tells us how to test things how to test prophets and in that revelation God says about himself as an example.

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He says just Psalm 90 verse 2 We can go to a number of other texts We just did

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John chapter 1 already, but a number of other text says from eternity into eternity You are

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God from eternity into eternity. You are God. God has been God from all eternity into all eternity now as a

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Christian when I know that got that's God's revelation and then Joseph Smith comes along a 19th century

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American prophet comes along and says that's what he is long I'm trying to put him in a timeline here in terms of when biblical revelation was given and Joseph comes along and he says

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This he says we've imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity I'll refute that idea and take away and do away the veil so that you may see.

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Yes Now I have a question who's doing the imagining that God has been God from all eternity. So well, it's a great question first, like I said

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God being all eternally eternity to eternity You can spar back and forth you can say well then

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Olam does not exactly mean eternity Does that mean you know look far back as you can think as far back as you can think if you want to get into the

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Hebrew I'm and then you put into the ancient context of well when they say this, you know that you use this kind of language well, then

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Other societies are also using this kind of language. What does it mean? The the the the issue I find is that your interpretation of it is not the wrong.

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No, no Let me finish the interpretation of Eternity to eternity is not what this means in the

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English sense in these in the ancient Semitic Near Eastern Definition is not eternity in the way we think of it.

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It's it's not as just forever forever forever with no clear definition of forever and the the confusion of People coming later and saying well this guess that's what that means.

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And then all God God's ungraspable. We don't understand God You have it you can't really have a personal relationship with that You can't grasp all these things

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Joseph Smith wasn't refuting what the Bible says He was refuting with the false interpretation of what the Bible says.

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Well, I think well, I I don't agree with you there I think I would say that he pretty much

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Defines what he means in terms of what he's coming against he says very clearly and this is part of what you believe today

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You believe that the father told Joseph Smith that to join none of the churches for they're all wrong

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All their creeds are an abomination. The professors are corrupt drawn near to me with their lives Their hearts are far from and you believe that and you believe that there was a great apostasy

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Absolutely, you know that Joseph Smith was responding oftentimes to doctrine and teaching from the

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Christian Church So when he says in the King Follett discourse near the end of his life He says that we've imagined suppose that God was gone from all eternity

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He says I'll refute that idea and take away and do it with a veil so that you may see you've got to learn to Become God's yourselves the same way all gods have done before you

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He is most certainly Responding to what the Christian Church has been teaching and by the way, what

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Jews had been teaching long before the time of Christ Well, I think we got to go to the the documents themselves and read here in these in these texts but and I just want to point out to you here that that's the main point of Contact in terms of who we're gonna believe we're gonna believe

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God the Bible and so because we believe Bible We also believe Joseph Smith. Okay, and that's and that's where the challenge is because Joseph Smith's revelation

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Contradicts no, it does the revelation from God. Well, that's right. Okay. I'll give you a couple examples that that that same

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Bible says that God is the first the last the beginning in the end the same yesterday today and forever from eternity into eternity

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So we're not talking about a single verse. Is it poetic to what extent it's something

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That's a thread that runs through and through the revelation of God. Dr. White read to you today John chapter 1

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Where in John chapter 1 it says in Archaean halagos kai halagos ein prostanteon kai theos ein halagos

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I'm putting that down on record so people can go research themselves in Archaean halagos go back as far as you want

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There's no reference point to stopping. This is not a doctrine that you can say is it is that that one verse there?

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That's poetic. This is a thread through and through where God's grand revelation of himself is this I'm going to say this to you

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He is the only true and living God. He has been God from all eternity

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He will be God what does eternity mean? Everlasting what is everlasting forever ago.

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See see and this is the issue again, Joseph Smith is not Contradicting the original

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Word of God. He's not he says that God became God. Yes, because that's true. That's what happened well, and so You just talk for like five minutes now now we're exchanging because you're bringing up points in response

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So I'll respond to what you just said. You see the biblical text isn't ambiguous on this point Many people would disagree with me.

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I think it is. Let me quote the text here then Isaiah 40. Let's do a number Isaiah 44 43 10 before me there was no

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God formed neither shall there be after me I am the first and I am the last you don't believe either of those statements and besides me

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There is no God and I tell you I can go to the exact same Language respond to that text and I think

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I will I can find the exact same language used in other Civilizations Isaiah 44 and other civilizations.

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It's it's a way to heighten your covenant with the God It's almost you could call it. You want to call it you call a smack talk

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Well, it doesn't you have mental reality. Dr. White it with all due respect. You haven't you haven't you have not okay?

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You've said you've said things Okay. Well, how about listen? I'll say I'll say this. I think buddy.

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Well, I Have I have listened to you? I've listened to you for quite some time. I've listened to you

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I just don't think it's these accurate Okay, you are wrong. And here's why you're wrong

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One of us two of us is wrong. I'm saying it's you okay when you quote from a

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Syrian religion or from Egyptian religion the Fundamental reality of these religious systems is that they believe that their gods were derived from the creation

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They did not believe that that has nothing to do with the language used That's a different subject.

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You have no interest in hearing from someone who has studied this subject much longer than you have

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I would I can I one more time. I want to try one more time. Hey, I've listened to you a lot I I do have interest time.

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I watched your wonderful lecture. Let's do his proposal than your response You have religious systems that believe their gods were derived from the creation and hence are not the foundation and creator of creation itself

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You can use all the similar language you want. The reality is the biblical writers

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Do not have that foundation The biblical writers do not believe that God came out of the creation from the beginning

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I've been telling you that what makes Jehovah different is that he's the creator of all things they do not you cannot read that in their language and They're false false false you absolutely can't show me you have okay.

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All right, let's let's do this Show me where they believe That their

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God you are the sole one who made all that exists one alone who made that which is that is talking about This is the gate

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Cairo him to Amin Ra. Okay, so one who exists that all that exists Okay, all that exists all that exists, you know

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Egyptian religion And you think that that is an extensive claim of creation of everything you don't know dr.

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White Here's what I'm saying. Dr. White something about Horace Well, I I'll tell you what

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I do know about Horace Horace is often used as an example to show why from from the atheist perspective of why

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Jesus is not valid Yeah, I just agree with that. So there are many people like to show similarities between Horace and Jesus I don't think that's very you know,

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I might be wrong The point is that if you understand how these gods came to have the positions that they did

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They did so because of their deeds and what they did the creation had to pre -exist them again

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So when they make these statements, they are not stating there that everything that exists is dependent upon since they have plural gods

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You just asked me Kwaku I want you to find where it says that they made everything that exists and I showed you

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The thing is I'm saying that the atheistic system where the gods themselves are born from you know, it's