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Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe.
It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today. Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better. It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.
And now, here's your host, Chris Arnson.
Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth. We're listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this fourth day of June 2024.
Before I introduce my guest and topic for the day, I want to remind all men in ministry leadership that my next free biannual Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Pastors Luncheon, featuring for the very first time our keynote speaker, Dr. Joel Beeky, founder and chancellor of Puritan Reform Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and author of over 100 books, and very highly sought after conference speaker.
Well, that's being held this Thursday, June 6th, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania. And the deadline to register was supposed to be yesterday, but I thought I'd give it one more day.
It's definitely going to be the largest crowd we've ever had. In fact, the registrations keep coming in, even though they're late. And if you are a man in ministry leadership and you'd like to attend this free event, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, and the Pastors Luncheon in the subject line not only is the admission free and your lunch free, but every man attending will receive one and perhaps maybe even two very heavy sacks of free brand new books personally selected by me and donated by Christian publishers all over the United States and the United Kingdom, all absolutely free of charge.
So if you want to register, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put Pastors Luncheon in the subject line. Well, today I am delighted to have a first time guest. I remember very vividly on May 18th of last year hearing the tragic news that Pastor Harry L. Reader III, senior pastor of Briarwood Presbyterian Church in Birmingham, Alabama, and also a professor at Birmingham Theological Seminary, he died suddenly in a car crash.
And I remember when I made the announcement to my listeners, I knew right away that I had to conduct a special broadcast in memory of him, and God has provided the ideal guest today to do that a little over one year later.
And I'm thankful to George Grant, the pastor of Parish Presbyterian Church in Franklin, Tennessee, for publicizing the book we are addressing in social media, the book which I'm holding in my hand, which just arrived at my doorstep actually five minutes before the show started, A Pastor's Heart, Essays in Memory of Harry L. Reader III, edited by my guest today, Derek E. Bright.
And Derek is pastor of First Presbyterian Church in Aliceville, Alabama, which is a congregation in the Presbyterian Church in America, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Pastor Derek Bright.
Well, thank you, Chris. I guess you could say a longtime listener, first time caller.
Wow, I'm glad that you are a longtime listener. I was unaware of that until just now.
And yeah, yeah, I've known about you for quite a long time, actually. In fact, I believe the first time I ever became acquainted with you and with your program was actually when you, a long time ago for a James Watt debate, I was watching on YouTube and I thought, this guy's cracking me up and it may have even been the Bill Shishko pedo-baptism debate.
And you made some you made some hilarious comments about all the Presbyterians are wondering what that big tub is in the back. And I just, I died laughing. So ever since then, I've been listening. So I'm honored to be on your program.
Well, I am glad that even though you and I are on opposite sides of the infant baptism issue, that you still found my routine humorous.
Yeah, yeah, well, I have a good, you know, when you're a Presbyterian, especially growing up where I did, where Baptist dominate, you kind of have to have thick skin and a good sense of humor.
So, yeah.
And more folks in our theological camp should learn that lesson. Absolutely. Too many, too many Reformed people seem to never crack a smile. But I'm glad that there are remnant like you and I who do. That's right.
Well, first of all, tell our listeners more about First Presbyterian Church of Aliceville, Alabama.
Yeah, thank you. I've been here almost five years and it was my first call out of seminary. And it's really a wonderful community. It's a small town population floating around 2000 people in West Alabama, almost dead center of the state, all the way west, close to Mississippi.
And we're about 45 minutes outside of Tuscaloosa, Alabama. And so for any Alabama fans, we're right down the road, if you will. And it's a small town. It's a historic church. The church was founded in 1837 and it was one of the first churches to be a part of the PCA when the PCA started.
So it's got a lot of historical background to it and heritage. And they called me here about five years ago. And the Lord has really blessed our time. It's a wonderful group of people. And we could see ourselves being here for a very long time if the Lord, if the Lord and the people allow it, if the Lord allows it and the people can put up with with me, we my wife and I would be certainly happy to be here for a long time.
It's a it's a really a sweet town, a sweet spirit, very generous. And they just love love Christ and love the gospel.
Amen. Well, if anybody lives in or near Allistown or if you are traveling through that city, perhaps on vacation in Alabama, or you have family, friends and loved ones who live in or near Allistown, Alabama, the website to find out more details is FirstPrezAllisville .org FirstPrezAllisville .org and first is spelled out the full word F-I-R-S-T.
Well, we have a tradition here on Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio, whenever we have a first time guest, before we go to the major theme that we have scheduled to address, we have that guest give a summary of their salvation testimony, which would include the religious atmosphere, if any, in which they were raised and the kinds of providential circumstances our sovereign Lord raised up in their lives that drew them to himself and save them.
And I would love to hear a summary of your story.
Yeah, thank you. I'd be honored to do so. I it really starts with I need to mention that my my parents divorced when I was about six months old. And so from that time, I really was split between two different households, primarily living with my mother.
And we for the first, I don't know, probably 13 or 14 years of my life, went to church very rarely. We were Easter and Christmas Christians at a minimum. And even then, it was very short and it was an independent fundamental Baptist church.
And we went primarily because my grandparents were very devoted to that church. And once they passed away, my family really sought no or they felt no need, I guess, to go to church any further. But I always had an interest in religious things.
I always had questions about church and the Bible and the gospel. Well, about eighth grade, I moved in with my father and stepmother, and they are very active, faithful Christians. And they were going to a church.
And so I started attending church with them and a Southern Baptist church. Unfortunately, that church went through a nasty church split. We went to a really a mega church that was in a small town, but it was in North Georgia and it was somewhat modeled after Rick Warren.
But you'll get a kick out of this, Chris. The pastor, though, he really modeled his church after a purpose driven life. The youth pastor is a very serious, godly 1689 Reformed Baptist. And he believed it was his job to without, you know, without creating division, but to teach the next generation the truth of the faith.
And so that's exactly what happened. And I can specifically remember on a Wednesday night, a Wednesday night youth service, there was about 200 kids and him teaching about propitiation from First John and thinking, why have I never heard this?
And we went on a youth trip a few months later. It was New Year's and we went to a hamburger restaurant in a local town. And I remember just sitting there and I was thinking about propitiation and all of a sudden it dawned on me.
I need propitiation. I need this. And there I prayed to the Lord for him to save me right there in the middle of that restaurant. And about six months later, that same youth pastor, who's still a dear friend of mine, and ironically, his son is my youth pastor now, funny enough.
But he he handed me some very sound, solid theological resources and began discipling me into the Reformed faith. And he does somewhat regret that I went into the PCA. He'll often tell students now, listen, you can follow Derek, but don't follow him all the way.
So but yeah, I was I was really a recipient of a faithful, a faithful youth pastor who just taught the Bible verse by verse, taught us theological truths and taught us really the greatness and holiness of God.
And that's really what what what drew me in, if you will. That's what the Lord sought fit to use in my life.
Well, praise God for that. And we are, as I've already announced today, paying tribute to the late Harry L. Reader, who I have had the privilege of interviewing twice on this program. And he wrote a glowing endorsement for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
I was so honored with the privilege of receiving that from him. He was such for a man of his stature, his prominence in Reformed circles, he was an extremely humble and accessible man. There was no air of celebrity about him.
When I met him, he immediately remembered who I was on the several occasions where I met him in person. The last one being at Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Quaker Town, Pennsylvania, when he was on the speaking roster at a Reformed conference there.
And in fact, if you've seen the promotional post on Facebook for our interview today, the photograph is not of me and my guest today, Derek Bright. It's me and Harry L. Reader at the Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Quaker Town the last time I saw him.
And if anybody would like to hear my interviews with Harry Reader on August 22nd, 2022 was the last interview I conducted with him. And the one prior to that was November 7th, 2018. But if you just type in Reeder, R-E-E-D-E-R, in the search engine at Iron Trip and Zion Radio dot com, you will get those two audio links immediately pop up.
But tell us how you first became familiar with Dr. Harry L.
Reader. Yeah, so like many, when I came into the PCA, Harry cast something of a long shadow. He was seen immediately. I mean, everybody knows he was a leader in our denomination. He pastored for a very long time, the flagship church of the PCA, where the first PCA General Assembly was held.
And so I've always known of him in that way. When I came to Aliceville, we support financially the work that's being done at Birmingham Theological Seminary, which is housed at Briarwood Presbyterian Church.
And specifically, the prison ministry is something we're involved in. And so the president of Birmingham Theological Seminary, which is I. Reader, Harry's son, when I first came here, he took me out to lunch and wanted to meet me, and we became fast friends.
And he's become one of my dearest and closest friends, brother in the Lord. And that propelled that relationship with the Reader family, and that ended up leading to time spent with Harry, whether it was one on one or via conference and various other avenues and just being connected to the family.
And so I first came to be associated with him through just PCA work. And then through his son, I became closer to him and closer to that family. And he was also Harry was also a board member or rather an executive council member of the Gospel Reformation Network, which is a great organization of PCA minded people trying to further healthy, reformed confessional church plants and churches in our denomination.
And he served on that executive council and being affiliated with them. That also allowed me to to get to know him a little better as well.
So tell us about at least some of them, the contributors to this memorial that you have edited a pastor's heart essays in memory of Harry L. Reader, the third. Tell us about some of the contributors and why specifically you were you selected them.
Are you there, brother? For some reason, I do not have my guest with me. I have no idea why. And can you hear me now?
Oh, yes.
Now I do.
I have no idea what happened there. OK, I apologize about that. Maybe I hit a button or something. But we do really do have a great number of contributors for the book, and they were chosen for different reasons.
For example, we have Kevin Young, pastor of Cross Covenant Church in Charlotte, North Carolina. Kevin is obviously a leader in our denomination and in the broader reformed evangelical world. However, he pastors a church that Harry himself planted in accordance with that Presbytery.
So we also have David Strain, who pastors First Presbyterian Jackson, another leader in our denomination, but pastors a major church who's a faithful, godly man committed to expository preaching, very humble man.
We have John Payne, who's the he's actually the convener of the Gospel Reformation Network that I mentioned earlier, and someone who is known as a very sound, conservative and confessional voice. And we just have we actually also have one of Harry's daughters, Jennifer Toomer Hay.
She pastored, or I'm sorry, she pastored.
You're really going to cause trouble for me.
Interview's over right now. But she authored a chapter at the end. And so we picked people who were not only close to Harry personally and who were a lot of them were discipled by him, such as Brian Cosby, pastor of Wayside PCA in Signal Mountain.
A lot of these men were discipled by him. Others were close to him ministerially, whether it's his assistant pastor or perhaps they were family members. It was people who had been impacted one way or another by his ministry and who knew him well enough to be able to say, here's a topic like George Grant.
Obviously, you've mentioned him before, but George obviously knew Harry. But George was qualified to write on that particular topic as well and be able to bring in not only his own insights, but bring in what he learned from Harry and kind of marry the two and and put it in there.
So it was interesting editing the book that all of these contributors, one of them actually told me recently when he got his copy and he said, there seems to be a unified voice in all of these chapters.
And I said, well, that's exactly right, because the unified voice ultimately is Harry's. We were all discipled by him one way or another, and we're just applying what we learned in these chapters. So so, yeah, it was it was a mixture of reasons, but primarily people who were impacted by him and closest to him.
Well, I just want to read a couple of the a few of the endorsements written for this book. And all of these men whose endorsements I'm going to read have been guest on Iron Radio in the past. Chris Larson, who is the president and CEO of Ligonier Ministries in Orlando, Florida, the ministry founded by the late Dr. R .C. Sproul.
Dr. Reader's zeal for the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ is beautifully honored in a pastor's heart, celebrating God's kindness and calling and raising up this courageous shepherd and leader of God's people.
Also, Jonathan Master, president of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Taylor, South Carolina, one of the few biblically sound seminaries left in the United States. Jonathan says, yes, Jonathan says the chapters contained in this book encompass so many of the things that Harry Reader stood for, a love for people and ability to teach a love of ideas, all of it in service to Christ and to his church.
And last but not least, Peter A. Lilbeck of Westminster Theological Seminary in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and also author of an enormous biography of George Washington. He says of this book, our brother Harry Reader is missed, but his legacy is cherished and will yield fruit for generations to come.
So some powerful endorsements by some powerful leaders in Christ's church. Well, we are going to our first commercial break right now. And if any of you have a question for my guest today, Derek Bright about Harry L.
Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail dot com. C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail dot com. Give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence in your country of residence if you live outside the USA.
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It is much more than an exposition of the Larger Catechism. It is a thoroughly researched work that utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and systematic theology. Dr. Morecraft is pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, and I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.
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Please tell Dr. Morecraft and the saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia that Dr. Joseph Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sent you. Hello, I'm Phil Johnson, executive director of Grace to You with John MacArthur.
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Doug McMasters here, former director of pastoral correspondence at Grace to You, the radio ministry of John MacArthur. In the film Chariots of Fire, the Olympic gold medalist runner Eric Liddell remarked that he felt God's pleasure when he ran.
He knew his efforts sprang from the gifts and calling of God. I sense that same God given pleasure when ministering the word and helping others gain a deeper knowledge and love for God. That love starts with the wonderful news that the Lord Jesus Christ is a savior who died for sinners and that God forgives all who come to him in repentance, trusting solely in Christ to deliver.
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God bless you.
We're at Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
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We are now back with my guest today, Derek Bright, who is the editor of a new book that should be in the hands especially of every pastor, but much more than that, A Pastor's Heart, Essays in Memory of Harry L. Reader III.
And if you have a question, send it to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence. Well, I'd like you to continue letting our listeners know, what is it about Harry L. Reader that the Lord basically instilled in his mind, heart, and ministry that makes him someone that many pastors looked up to as their mentor?
Yeah, there's quite a bit I could say to that, but I would say that Harry had a unique ability to preach and teach those things that were confessionally orthodox and sound doctrine, but also do it in such a way that it affected people in the pews.
So he wasn't an egghead preacher, if you will. I hate to use that term, but a lot of us geek out over sound doctrine. I do as well. But he was one who could say, now let's take it to your heart and let's apply it to your hands and feet and get out and apply this.
How does the Reformed faith and how does the Bible teach us to live as Christians? And so he had a unique way of speaking to both the person who would be a pastor, but also the person in the pew and applying both of those things.
There's an oft repeated mantra of Harry's, which is on mission and on message and in ministry. That was really how everything applied. You wanted to be a person who was on mission, who had the message right, but also was active in ministry.
And so he was very good at that and conveying that and conveying how the Bible applies to our daily lives. He was a natural disciple maker. And that's something that I've learned personally from him and have been challenged on by him is how to make disciples and do it in a way that has the long-term health of the church and the person in mind.
And he was uniquely gifted in that. I share a story in the editor's note of the book that several people have commented on, including his wife, Cindy Reeder. When I first met Harry, now I had actually met him before and we'd talked, but the first time I actually got to sit down one-on-one with him and pick his brain, I was a new pastor and I emailed him and I wanted to sit down with him and say, listen, I pastor a small church in a small town, help me.
Here's some things I'm dealing with, help me. And he took the time and here's a guy who speaks at Ligonier conferences and all these other things and he didn't hesitate. And he said, yes, please come by and we scheduled a date and time.
I drove an hour and a half to Birmingham. I walked in and I said, Dr. Reeder, it's such a pleasure to meet with you. And he said, please don't call me doctor. I'm not even good enough to be a nurse. And I really, yeah, it was so funny.
I laughed right then and he was being somewhat serious about that. And he said, please just call me Harry. And we went into his office and it was really almost like a waiting room and we're surrounded by these pictures of godly men of the past.
And he says, so tell me brother about your ministry. And I begin to tell him what I'm dealing with and what I feel the Lord is doing here in Allison, all these things. And he began to just pour wisdom into me.
And it was this faithful, here's how you stick to what the Bible says and not fall into any kind of traps that progressive Christianity or some kind of neo-evangelical would have you to do. Don't follow what the church growth gurus tell you.
Here's how you follow the Bible. And here's how you put it basically in the pew. And it was such good advice. And I think he's done that for everybody. He had pastored for so long and so faithfully that no matter where you were in ministry, you were able to come to him and say, here's what I'm dealing with.
Whether you were at the beginning of your ministry or nearing the end, he had some kind of wisdom for you that was sound and biblical. And that's something that I think is somewhat lost in many today.
He did not capitulate to the spirit of the age. And he stayed steadfast to the word of God and poured out everything he had, like Paul says, poured out like a drink offering. That was Harry's really his mentality.
And he did that for a lot of people and he made time for people. And so there's a lot of things, again, I could say he was but he was very contagious in his approach.
Well, we've had you already provide a summary of your salvation testimony. What can you tell us about Harry's upbringing and how he came to know his Lord, God, Savior and King Jesus Christ and anything that you may know about when he believed that he had the call from God to enter into pastoral ministry?
Yeah, it's interesting because Harry was somebody who if you knew anything about Harry, he loved baseball and his whole life. He went to college and played baseball and wanted to play pro. And he was he was a true athlete.
And when he met Cindy and they started going together and it got serious, you know, she was a very serious Christian and wanted to bring him wanted to make sure that she was with somebody who believed that same thing.
And he was somebody who I think I remember him saying something about, well, we can't we needed a church to go to. I think they had gotten married. And he said, you know, we can't go to the church that I that I had grown up in because they all knew who I really was.
And so they picked a church happened to be a Presbyterian church and where nobody knew.
And the pastor that day basically keyed in on him and really forced him into a discipleship.
Situation.
And and so Harry really came to cross and came to a an understanding of a biblical Christianity and ministry under the the faithful work of a, you know, a regular pastor who wanted to disciple him. And that really changed his life really forever.
That changed the whole trajectory of of everything he cared about and everything he wanted to.
Do.
So he he, you know, he mentions he he lived he lived a very worldly life for a long time. And and of course, Cindy, his his dear wife, helped him out with with getting on the right track. But a faithful, a faithful regular pastor really discipled him and and brought him into the faith.
Well, we have Gerard from Hoboken, New Jersey, which I believe is the birthplace of Frank Sinatra. Just a little trivia there. Gerard asks, what was Dr. Reader's reaction when the Revoice controversy raised its ugly head in the Presbyterian church in America?
That's a very good question. And why don't you explain to our listeners who may be completely ignorant of what that even is? Why don't you tell them about what Revoice was or is?
Yeah, absolutely. So Revoice was a or is I think it's still in existence as a ministry that is geared towards those in the LGBTQ plus, you know, rainbow coalition, if you will. And originally, when they started out, their mission statement was to help people continue in a biblical view of marriage and same sex relationships.
Unfortunately, what happened, what we saw was really some bad fruit from that. And we saw what it became known as is something that promoted side B, quote unquote, gay Christianity.
Yeah.
In fact, I don't know if you're aware, I just fairly recently arranged a debate over that heresy between Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries.
That's right.
A very, very long time, dear friend of mine who debated Dr. Gregory Coles, who identifies himself as a gay Christian and a side B Christian, which is basically among the folks that are in that realm of activity or mindset, people who believe they have a proclivity or an inclination towards same sex attraction.
But they do believe that to bring that to a physical consummation is sinful and even to lust towards anyone, whether it's your same sex or somebody else from an opposite sex, that is sinful. But there's nothing wrong with the innate state as if there were such a thing.
And there's nothing that needs repenting from if you're not involved physically in homosexuality or lusting. There's nothing to repent from. And so that's what that's so. So anyway, Dr.
Yeah, that's right.
And he made it clear that that was identity. Yeah, I was just going to say Dr. White made it clear in that debate that Dr. Coles had no legitimate biblical support for that. But I'm sorry, I interrupted you.
No, I interrupted you.
I apologize.
This is you're absolutely right. And you're right. James, I did a great job of that. It became an issue of identity. And there's really it became really a Roman Catholic view of concupiscence and sin.
And some of the speakers in that conference and that ministry tried to equate being physically disabled with having homosexual attraction, which there's no correlation, of course. And it really rocked our denomination and rocked other denominations.
Harry was actually vocal opponent of Side B. He had ministered to many people who struggle with same sex attraction, had discipled them, but revoice and you called it a heresy earlier. And I would agree with that.
Harry was vocal even on the floor of General Assembly. I believe it's 2019. The PCA had before it to affirm the Nashville statement on human sexuality as biblically faithful or not. And he employed that same statement at his church.
They also wrote their own statement. But he spoke on the floor basically in favor of the Nashville statement and saying this is a discipleship issue, which was dear to Harry's heart. This is an errant view of sexuality and of anthropology.
And we need to get to what the Bible says and disciple people. And ultimately, you can't identify as a gay Christian. I want to put it that way for our listeners here. But Harry was a vocal opponent of revoice and Side B.
And I would say that without his voice and without his leadership, we would be in a much worse position in the PCA than we are now.
Well, guess what, Gerard? You have won a free copy of A Pastor's Heart, Essays in Memory of Harry L. Reader III, edited by my guest today, Derek Bright. And we thank Donnie Morrison, my friend for many years over at Christian Focus Publications, for being so generous as to donate to us a limited number of copies of this book that we're giving away today.
And we also want to thank Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, CVBBS .com, who will actually be shipping this book out to you, Gerard. So we need your full mailing address in Hoboken, New Jersey. And by the way, if you are a first-time questioner, Gerard, you have also won a free New American Standard Bible.
And we want to thank the publishers of the NASB, nasbible .com, for providing us with free Bibles for first-time questioners. I know that Dr. Reader was a strong voice for biblical authenticity and integrity.
One might nickname that conservative, but it's far more than that. Did he have any opponents that you are aware of, either within the PCA or outside?
Yeah, he did have some, in the sense that there were people, perhaps, who on the outside maybe saw photos or looked at Harry. And, you know, for example, he was somebody who was anti-woke, anti-revoiced, things like that.
And so there were people on the outside, of course, who criticized him, people even in the PCA who might want to criticize that. I think of one particular example from several years ago. Harry had the mentality of wanting to preach the gospel wherever he had an opportunity.
So if, you know, if the Mormon Church were to invite him for some reason to speak at some event, he would go, but he would explicitly teach the gospel, he would explicitly teach the Trinity. He just took all those opportunities.
So a few years ago, I remember a photo floating around the Internet of him preaching at an event. It was almost like a rally for Southern Confederates. And there was a lot of rebel flags and it was an all-white, you know, group.
And people criticized him and said, oh, he's a neo-Confederate. Well, if you actually go and hear what he had to say, he called people to repent of racism and to follow the gospel and to follow biblical truth.
But people only saw the photo. So it's mainly people who really didn't know Harry that were the biggest critics. They might see a photo or they might see something he says. It was the people who knew him who said, oh, gosh, he's nothing like what you think he is.
How did the crowd at that Confederate group react?
You know, I think from what I understand, I think they actually responded fairly positively. And he was somebody who was something of a civil war and just war in general buff and often his illustrations.
And when he would talk to men about leadership, which was very dear to his heart, he would use illustrations from war and civil war and things like that. And so it was almost like he had he had the knowledge to be able to relate to him.
But then he would call them to repent of any racism they had. And I think people really bought into what he was saying because he wasn't someone who did it from a woke perspective, if you will. He was somebody who came in and said, I'm faithful to the scriptures, I'm faithful to the reformed tradition, but I'm also we need to address what's happening here.
And this is inconsistent with biblical Christianity. And and that actually won a ton of people's respect that way because of his approach in.
That.
So he was somebody who never who never compromised, but somebody who was willing to go. And I think even if it meant a bad photo op, he was willing to do that for the sake of telling the truth and for the sake of the gospel and discipleship.
And I think that's something we could all learn from, perhaps.
Amen.
Well, we have to go to our midway break right now. And if you could please be patient with us, because the midway break is always a little longer than the other breaks, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because they are required by the FCC to localize Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and all of their programs geographically to Lake City, Florida, where the radio station is located.
They do so by airing their own public service announcements and other local things, while we, on the other hand, simultaneously air our globally heard commercials. I'm asking you to please use this time wisely, write down as much of the contact information as you possibly can for as many of our advertisers as you can so that you can more frequently and successfully contact our advertisers.
Keep in mind that we cannot exist without the financial support of our advertisers. So please try to respond to their commercials as often as you can. And also, of course, send in your questions to my guest, Derek Bright, on his book, A Pastor's Heart Essays in Memory of Harry L. Reader III.
And the email address, again, is chrisorenson at gmail dot com. Give us a first name, at least city and state and country of residence. We'll be right back. Don't go away.
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Chris Arnzen here, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. I strongly recommend a church I've been recommending as far back as the 1980s, Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.
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I'm Joe Riley, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener here in Atai in County Kildare, going back to 2005. One of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is Dr. Joe Moorcraft. If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. Moorcraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia are largely to thank, since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.
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And we have a question from Charlie in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. Did Dr. Reeder publish any writings or leave any as a legacy? Oh, yes, he is a published author. I've interviewed him on a couple of his books, but if you could follow up with an answer of your own.
Absolutely. That's a great question. So he does have some published works. He has Embers to a Flame, which is his church revitalization work. He also has 3D Leadership, a book on biblical leadership, which is very, very helpful.
But he actually left a ton for a legacy. And in fact, Birmingham Theological Seminary has started the Reeder Center for Pastoral Ministry. And what the Reeder Center does is we're seeking to endow the program.
And part of what the job of the Reeder Center will do is taking Harry's material, whether it be his sermons and teachings and conference messages, but also things that he maybe wrote and never published or didn't finish.
And putting out books basically authored by him and sometimes co-authored by other people who might be chosen to jump in. But putting out his material, and we already have over 40 books just from Dr. Reeder's materials lined up to come out of the Reeder Center for Pastoral Ministry.
And so, yes, he's published. And yes, there's more coming. There are a lot of books coming. In fact, I can't give all the details, but there's even a work being done for a church in Pakistan on the Apostles Creed right now.
And so, yes, Dr. Reeder was published and we're going to publish a whole lot more. And major publishers, RHB, Christian Focus, and others have expressed interest in getting those resources out. So we're really looking forward to what the Reeder Center is going to do with those.
Well, thank you, Charlie. And by the way, I know Charlie, and Charlie is the founder of a ministry that everybody should know about. Charlie's full name is actually Charlie Liebert, and he is the founder of sixdaycreation .com.
And it's spelled, the number six is spelled out, S-I-X, sixdaycreation .com. And I urge everybody to make use of that wonderful resource. Thank you, Charlie. And by the way, you have won a free copy of A Pastor's Heart.
And if you come into the pastor's luncheon this Thursday, I will give that to you. We have somebody with an unusual name. I like the name. Harbor in Cave Spring, Virginia. And Harbor asks, one of the problems with churches today, perhaps even especially if they are larger numerically, is the lack of church discipline.
I was wondering what Dr. Reeder's not only thoughts were on the subject, but if the church where he pastored was known for actively participating in that unfortunately necessary activity.
Yeah, another great question. So Harry and some of us, by virtue of being in the PCA, we try to take church discipline very seriously. Harry did as well. And I know that they've had some situations in the past.
Thankfully, not very often. He did pastor a large church, but they did take church discipline very seriously. And the way that we view church discipline in general in the PCA is that everybody, whether you're in trouble or not, for that matter, is under church discipline in the sense that we're all called to repent.
We're all called to be under the authority of the session to examine ourselves before the Lord's Supper, things like that. And so when the need arose for things to be taken a step further, Harry was able and willing to do that.
He was very long suffering in that wanting to work with sinners, wanting to work with people and call them to repentance and disciple them back to the truth. But if there was a situation where church discipline arose, they would do that.
And the thing about being in a big church like Briarwood, for that example, they have a ton of elders. In fact, they have so many elders, so many ruling elders at their church that it's bigger. A session meeting for their church would be bigger than even my Presbytery meetings here in West Alabama.
So one of the virtues or one of the benefits of that perhaps is that because they have so many pastors and because they have so many elders, they're able to keep track with a lot of people. You know, people don't fall through the cracks as much as you might think they would.
And they're so discipleship oriented. That was really his mentality. Everything was about discipleship. And because that's the case, they were able to help a lot of people and when necessary, discipline a lot of people.
You know, the audience member, the questioner is correct. Discipline is much needed, but it's often neglected. But I think that Harry, I know for sure, Harry was serious about it when the need arose. And I know that he was very long suffering and wanting sinners to repent and come back to the truth.
Amen. And that is, it's a really sad commentary on the modern church that so many churches just completely ignore the biblical warrant, the biblical command to conduct church discipline. And they think that they're being more loving and kind by doing that perhaps, or maybe they just are so fearful of losing popularity and people, perhaps especially even those that are putting money in the plate every Sunday, that they refrain from this.
But that is not a loving act. By the way, Derek, I don't know if you know this about me, but I tragically, after 18 years of sobriety, fell off the wagon and became immersed in drunkenness, habitual, unrepentant drunkenness.
And I believe that being placed under church discipline in my own congregation years ago saved my life. Not only, more importantly, restored me to the church and a right relationship with the Lord, but I believe physically it saved my life.
I don't even believe I'd be sitting here talking to you if they didn't do that. So that was an act of love.
Yep, absolutely. I'm glad you shared. I did not know that about you. I'm glad you shared that. I was actually speaking to somebody recently, and this wasn't about Harry or Briarwood, but I was explaining a story about the church that I was previously a member at and interned at in the PCA.
And there was a family, the man had had an affair. He left his wife and children, moved a couple of states away, was living in sin and had attempted to join another church in our denomination, but keep his life secret.
And our pastor caught wind of that. He and some elders actually drove a couple of states away to confront the man. It was on a Sunday morning. That church that the man was going to had no idea what was going on.
And what they did was they, when my pastor walked in, they surrounded the guy, wanted to defend him, which was godly of them. But when my pastor explained and said, no, you don't understand. He's abandoned his wife and family and he's underdisciplined from us.
He's been suspended from the sacraments. He's on his way to excommunication. We're here to call him in repentance. That session of that church broke down and wept. And long story short, that man ended up repenting, returning to his family.
And when I was being told the story, they said, we won't tell you what family it is. If we did though, you would never suspect it because that man is a model husband and father that all of our church looks up to, but you'd never know it was them.
But it took church discipline and people being serious about it for that to happen. And Harry was the kind of man who would show up on your doorstep and knock on the door and want to deal with it and want to call you back.
And so I'm glad you shared that. That's such a blessing. Church discipline really is a gift from the Lord. That is not, yes, it's a hard thing, but it is a loving thing that the end goal and our book of church order states it.
And I know Baptists feel the same way that the end goal of church discipline is not excommunication. The end goal of church discipline is for a sinner to be restored to the fellowship. And we were serious about that.
Amen. And by the way, as I try to do as often as I can, I love to sing the praises about a addiction recovery ministry in Boone, North Carolina, where I went and admitted myself after being put under church discipline, hebroncolony .org, hebroncolony .org.
I know some people pronounce it Hebron, hebroncolony .org. I admitted myself into that wonderful ministry well over a decade ago and left there never desiring a drop of alcohol again. Now, I know that some of my Reformed listeners may be wondering, where do I stand on the liberty to drink?
Well, I believe that Christians do have the liberty to drink. I don't. And thank God I don't even have the desire to, not that everybody who goes through a recovery program has the same reaction as I did, or response, or change of desires in that realm.
But thank God I did. And I know that I have to take, he who thinks he stands, take heed lest he fall. I always have to remind myself of that. I just want to praise God for Hebron Colony, for the amazing work God did through them in my life.
Let's see, we have Roderick in Southampton, Long Island, New York. And Roderick says, what can you say about Dr. Reeder that maybe stands out in his successful approach and accomplishment of things in the pastoral ministry that may be lacking in far too many churches in our day and age?
Oh goodness, where do I begin? I would say that there's a couple things that I'd want to point out. First is, one of the things that I think is lacking, especially in a man of his stature and position, is humility and a willingness to be present for people.
He was not someone, though he pastored a very large church, he was not someone who saw himself as this major conference speaker who was detached from the life of his congregation. He believed that shepherds ought to smell like sheep.
And even though he had four or 5 ,000 sheep, he, to the best of his ability, was involved in their lives and did a lot of things for people that others didn't see, including marrying people. Maybe it was, they were widows, it was their second marriage, in his office with his robe on and everything, with nobody there but one witness.
But doing things in such a way that nobody would ever see what he was doing. But it was the true work of the shepherd. The second thing I would say is that Harry was gifted in leadership and discipleship.
And he wasn't just a preacher, he wasn't just a teacher, he wasn't just a seminary professor, but he actually sought to invest in the life of his elders and also other pastors and show them how to lead their congregations, show them how to disciple others.
And I think that there's a missing piece for many in our circles today in that discipleship often gets, that discussion often gets dominated by the broad evangelical church that's focused more on pragmatic things and practical approaches.
And Harry did not see any kind of disagreement or disjunction between solid, reformed biblical teaching and preaching and leadership and discipleship. He wanted to marry the two. And I think that we would do well to not only model his love for biblical and reformed truth, but also to lead and disciple others, whomever God gives us in our path.
I think he had a unique ability to do that. So that's why I recommend his book on 3D leadership. Not many reformed authors put out a book on leadership, but he did because it was something that he was passionate about and something that he was successful about.
So I would say those two things.
Excellent question. And please give me your full mailing address in Southampton, New York, so that we can have Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service ship to you a free copy of A Pastor's Heart, Essays in Memory of Harry L. Reader III, edited by my guest today, Derek Bright.
And once again, we thank Christian Focus Publications for their generosity in providing these giveaway copies. And we thank Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com for shipping these books out.
Let's see here. We have William. And William lives in Cooperstown, New York, home of the Baseball Hall of Fame. And William asks, is there anything that made Dr. Reader different as far as a position he held in regard to the Reformed faith that may not be all that common?
Yeah, that's a good question. I don't think there was really anything as far as a doctrinal position goes that he held that was different. I mean, he was pretty vanilla Reformed theology. You know, he was, I would say, he was more willing, perhaps, to implement, now it's still a fairly traditional worship service, but he was probably more willing to implement at times different instruments and things.
And he was, I think he was willing, in fact, I know he was willing, not on the Lord's Day, but during the week to implement different ideas of outreach. He was, you know, whether it was, because they have the school there, whether it was some kind of ballet or whatever the case is, during the week outreach, there was a lot of opportunities and different avenues for that.
But that was different, separate from the Lord's Day worship, of course. But yeah, he was a pretty vanilla Westminsterian, you know, Reformed guy. He didn't hold any views that you go, huh, I'm surprised he holds that.
No, he was pretty straight down the middle on things.
Oh, that's great to know. Perhaps he broke the mold, however, with, you know, we who are Reformed have some negative stereotypes. Sometimes they're completely slanderous. Sometimes they're fairly accurate, unfortunately, all too often.
I, from what I have gathered from meeting Dr. Reeder and interviewing him, he was no dry, dusty, professorial individual behind the pulpit.
No, not at all. He was a very passionate man. He spoke with passion, spoke with authority. And yeah, if he loved something or felt strongly about something, you knew it. And he was a man of opinions. He had some, they were strong.
But also the flip side of that, and it's funny, you mentioned Puritan Reformed and Joel Beakey and the Luncheon, and I'm a student, a post-grad student at Puritan. It makes me think some of Joel Beakey and they were friends, there is a certain piety in the right sense, a certain love and affection they have for Christ and the church.
And Harry was that way. Yes, he was strong opinion about doctrine, but he was strong in his love and affection for the Lord and for his church. You're right, he was not dry. He was very passionate about the things that he loved.
And I think you're right. We often get characterized with being dry, the frozen chosen that often comes up, but that was not true of him.
Amen, and thank God for that. We need more men like Harry. Reader for certain, a very dynamic preacher. And I know that some of my Presbyterian listeners may be insulted by this, but the kind of preaching that would make a Reformed Baptist happy.
That's right, that's right. Well, hey, there's a reason that people of different denominations would have Harry come and speak. It's not because he was a dry academic, that's for sure.
Amen. Well, we're going to our final break. And if you do have a question for my guest today, Derek Bright on Harry L. Reader III, I strongly urge you to send in that question immediately because we are rapidly running out of time.
Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. Don't go away. We're going to be right back after these messages.
James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here. If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know I have a great love for getting Bibles and other documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.
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Greetings, this is Brian McLaughlin president of the SecureComm Group and supporter of Chris Arnzen's Iron Shopping Zion radio program. SecureComm provides the highest level of security systems for residential buildings, municipalities, churches commercial properties and much more.
We can be reached at securecommgroup .com. That's securecommgroup .com. But today I want to introduce you to my senior pastor Doug McMasters of New High Park Baptist Church on Long Island.
Doug McMasters here former director of pastoral correspondence at Grace to You the radio ministry of John MacArthur. In the film Chariots of Fire the Olympic gold medalist runner Eric Liddell remarked that he felt God's pleasure when he ran.
He knew his efforts sprang from the gifts and calling of God. He sensed that same God-given pleasure when ministering the word and helping others gain a deeper knowledge and love for God. That love starts with the wonderful news that the Lord Jesus Christ is a savior who died for sinners and that God forgives all who come to him in repentance trusting solely in Christ to deliver them.
I would be delighted to have the honor and privilege of ministering to you if you live in the Long Island area or Queens or Brooklyn or the Bronx in New York City. For details on New High Park Baptist Church visit nhpbc .com that's nhpbc .com.
You can also call us at 516 -352 -9672 that's 516 -352 -9672. That's New High Park Baptist Church a congregation in love with each other passionate for Christ committed to learning and being shaped by God's word and delighting in the gospel of God's sovereign grace.
Armored Republic exists to equip free men with tools of liberty to defend God-given rights against the twin threats of tyranny and chaos. If you own a rifle to resist tyrants and criminals then you should own body armor and a med kit for the same reasons.
A rifle stops evil, body armor and a med kit keep you in the fight and preserve your life. Armored Republic is a body of free craftsmen united to create tools of liberty. We are honored to be your armorsmith of choice.
Civilian ownership of body armor is about increasing decentralized power and by comparison reducing the advantages of centralized power. The danger of centralized power is often represented by the word king.
As Americans we hate the word king applied to any mere man.
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And in a republic there is no king but Christ. Arm yourself with tools of liberty at ArmoredRepublic .com.
I'm Pastor Keith Allen of Linbrook Baptist Church a Christ-centered gospel-driven church looking to spread the gospel in the southwest portion of Long Island, New York and play our role in fulfilling the great commission supporting and sending for the spread of the gospel to the ends of the earth.
We're delighted to be a part of Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron radio advertising family. At Linbrook Baptist Church we believe the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be the inspired word of God inherent in the original writings complete as the revelation of God's will for salvation and the supreme and final authority in all matters to which they speak.
We believe in salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. This salvation is based upon the sovereign grace of God was purchased by Christ on the cross and is received through faith alone apart from any human merit, works or ritual.
Salvation in Christ also results in righteous living good works and appropriate respect and concern for all who bear God's image. If you live near Linbrook, Long Island or if you're just passing through on the Lord's Day we'd love to have you come and join us in worship.
For details visit linbrookbaptist .org that's l-y-n-brookbaptist .org. This is Pastor Keith Allen of Linbrook Baptist Church reminding you that by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves.
It is the gift of God not a result of words.
So that no one may boast.
The Lord bless you in the knowledge of himself.
When Iron Sharpens Iron radio first launched in 2005 the publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the NASB.
This is Darrell Bernard Harrison co-host of the Just Thinking podcast and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Tom Buck at First Baptist Church in Lindale, Texas and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
I'm Pastor Kent Keller of Faith Bible Church in Sharpsburg, Georgia and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
I'm Andrew Rapport the founder and executive director at Striving for Eternity Ministries and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Mark Romaldi pastor of Sovereign Grace Church in Greenbrier, Tennessee and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
I'm Christopher Cookston pastor of Prineville Community Church in Prineville, Oregon and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Matt Tarr pastor of High Point Baptist Church in Larksville, Pennsylvania and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew bibles tattered and falling apart? Consider restocking your pews with the NASB and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron radio.
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This is Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin here in the beautiful state of Tennessee. Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron radio. Financially, Grace Church at Franklin is an independent autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our Lord Jesus Christ.
And of course, the end of which we strive is the glory of God. If you live near Franklin, Tennessee and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes or you are visiting this area or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior.
Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin. Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org. This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our Sovereign Lord, God, Savior and King Jesus Christ today and always.
I'm Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love, Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.
It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word and to enthusiastically proclaim Christ Jesus the King and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island and beyond.
I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love as I have. For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net, that's hopereformedli .net or call 631 -696 -5711, that's 631 -696 -5711.
Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.
Chris Arnzen here. I am forever grateful to Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service for their generous financial support of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, but that's not the only reason I love them. CVBBS .com carries the finest in theologically reformed literature from 16th century classics like Calvin's Institutes, 17th and 18th century Puritan treasures like the works of Jonathan Edwards, 19th century volumes by the Prince of Preachers, Charles Spurgeon, all the way up to the 21st century with the best of R .C. Sproul, Steve Lawson, Votie Baucom, and more.
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That's CVBBS .com, enriching minds and maintaining the theologically reformed influence of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio through their financial support. Now shipping worldwide. Welcome back. I want to remind you folks that Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is paid for in part by my dear longtime friend, Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law of the law firm of Buttafuoco and Associates.
If you are the victim of a very serious personal injury or medical malpractice anywhere in the United States, please call Dan at 1 -800-NOW-HURT, 1 -800-NOW-HURT, or visit his website, 1 -800-NOW-HURT .com, 1 -800-NOW-HURT .com.
Please remember if you contact Dan to mention that you heard about his law firm from Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Also, I want to let our listeners know that I just got the word from Pete Hegseth of Fox News that he will be our guest on Friday to discuss his new book, The War on Warriors, Behind the Betrayal of the Men Who Keep Us Free.
That's this Friday, June 7th, right here on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Please make sure you tell your friends, family, and loved ones, especially if they are in the military or perhaps contemplating enlisting in the military.
I'm sure that they will find this interview to be eye-opening and very beneficial to their life. Well, we are back with my guest today, Derek Bright, and we are going to be continuing to discuss until the end of the program, A Pastor's Heart, Essays in Memory of Harry L. Reader III.
And if you have a question, please submit it to chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.
Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Let's see. We have C .J. in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, and C .J. wants to know, was Dr. Reader always reformed in his theology?
Please forgive me if I missed this earlier on. I just tuned in.
That's a good question. So, in one sense, yes, in that when he was discipled early on, you know, he was discipled by a reformed pastor, but he actually started out, a lot of people don't know this, at Tennessee Temple in Chattanooga, Tennessee, and before he went to Westminster.
And of course, Tennessee Temple's independent fundamental Baptist school or was rather, they're no longer in existence. And he ended up leaving there over differences he had on the reformed faith. So, he was a longtime reformed man.
I think that he, depending on your definition of reform, perhaps wasn't as reformed as when he entered the ministry early on. But, you know, I think, yeah, once he left Temple and went to Westminster, that's where it really took off.
Well, C .J., please make sure you give us your full mailing address in Lindenhurst because you've just won a pastor's heart. Do you know any area of ministry where Dr. Reader perhaps had a change of heart and changed the manner in which he conducted a certain area of his ministry or belief and, you know, perhaps even raised eyebrows and surprised people that he did so?
Yeah, that's a good question. The only one that I can maybe think of is that early on, from my understanding in his ministry, and this is a little bit more of secondhand information, but it's my understanding that perhaps he was a little more broad in his views on worship and even on certain confessional matters.
And it was in his later years, really, or maybe even the second half of his ministry, that he began to tighten up more and began to become more, dare I say, conservative in his views on that. I think early on, he was a little bit more broad from what I understand.
Then the way he ended.
Okay, we have Benny in Louisville, Kentucky, and Benny says, are you aware of any close friendships that Dr. Reader had with those in ministry outside of his own denomination and perhaps even theological perspectives?
Yes, he did have friendships with a number of Baptist pastors, especially there's a lot of African-American pastors in Birmingham that he had close friendships with that are in predominantly, historically, African-American denominations and churches, and he had a close relationship with them and did a lot in the community with them and often even, in fact, recently spoke at one of their events, and part of that, too, has been passed on to Birmingham Theological Seminary, which houses students from various different denominations, including those.
So he did have friendships that were outside, just the PCA reformed, and a lot of them were with minority pastors who ministered in his city.
Why don't you spend a little bit more time, even though we've mentioned it a couple of times, in fact, you just mentioned the Birmingham Theological Seminary, why don't you take a little bit more time to explain that in more detail?
Yeah, so Birmingham Theological Seminary is housed at Briarwood, though we offer online classes that actually stretch across the world. We have people in different countries taking classes, as well as in Bibb County Correctional Facility, a federal prison here in Alabama.
And it was started by Frank Barker, who pastored and planted Briarwood Presbyterian Church, and then was succeeded by Harry Reeder. And now, in addition to having thousands of students worldwide offering solid, reformed, and accessible and financially accessible classes, they are housing the Reeder Center.
The Reeder Center for Pastoral Ministry is not just a department within BTS, but it's ultimately part of a larger ministry and legacy of Dr. Reeder, which will house his publishing, putting out future books and materials based on his teaching.
It'll also provide an annual run of scholarships for 10 students with a focus on taking people who are primary, you know, primarily those who want to be pastors, and really teaching and discipling them with a particular focus to go out to revitalize and plant churches.
That was something that Harry was known for with the Lampstand, used to be Embers to a Flame, but the Lampstand Conference on Revitalization. And so we're seeking to endow that department, and which will, again, give 10 scholarships to each student, or I'm sorry, 10 scholarships for 10 students on an annual basis, full ride to get their degree, as well as house his publishing from here on out.
And it's so far, it just started, but it's been a great blessing to see that. And BTS serves at an accessible rate, and we have students from really all stripes of the evangelical landscape, and we unashamedly hold to the Westminster Confession.
In fact, if you take a class on the Westminster Confession, for example, I would probably be your professor, and I take no exceptions to the confession. I'm very conservative in that way. And so I would teach you as if, you know, I would teach you with no exceptions.
Same thing with the doctrine of God. But we have a very sound group of faculty, and one of the things that BTS has been able to do because it's financially accessible is we keep our overhead low. And so we don't have people who are full-time faculty as far as teachers go.
We don't have full-time professors. And so we keep the cost of tuition low. Which helps service people who especially can't go through a traditional route in seminary. You know, the traditional route is you would quit your job, move away, go live on campus or go live in that town and go to school full-time.
Well, that works for a lot of people, and that's a great model, but not everybody can do that. Some people need to go part-time, keep their job, whatever the case is. But you don't want to go to, you know, a diploma mill or somewhere that doesn't have high-quality professors.
No, we have the same professors other schools have. Sometimes they teach for both schools, but we do it at an accessible rate, keeping our overhead low. And it was something that Harry was passionate about.
And we seek to model ourselves after him and Frank Barker in that we want to hold a high view of doctrine, high view of the Bible, the sufficiency and errancy of scripture, the truth of the Reformed faith.
And we also want to help you get the practical element. How does this work itself out in the life of the church? And how can we teach you even to revitalize a church, plant a church? If you take a healthy church, how can we further that growth and health and see it at the next step?
And it's, you know, and I already mentioned this, but some of the students that I have, I teach often at the prison in Bibb County, and Ligonier actually is a partner with us for those who love Ligonier Ministries.
They provide the library. They're also a big supporter. Chris Larson was down just last year to tour the prison and sit in on some of the classes. And people would be shocked to see what's going on at Bibb County Correctional Facility.
I have masters and doctoral students there who are doing great work and the papers they turn in.
Praise God.
I mean, it's just unbelievable.
What we've been.
It's the closest thing to a revival, a historic revival that I've ever seen. And Chris Larson, when he came, we were all sitting in a room. And at one point he said, is this real? Are y 'all just putting on an act for us?
I've been to, we're involved in so many prison ministries. I've never seen one like this. And we said, no, this is really how it is. I mean, he sat in on a class and here are some inmates, some of them serving life sentences for murder and all other manner of things.
And the question, one of the questions was, well, explain to me the hypostatic union. And the guy who probably never got out of prison says, it's the doctrine of the two natures of Christ. And he began to explain how the two natures are important in the one person and how it's important for our redemption.
And you're thinking, where am I? Am I really in a prison? In fact, when I went to preach there one time, you'll love this, Chris. I went to preach there before I began to teach seminary classes. I've taught covenant theology.
I'm gonna be teaching covenant theology again there and doctrine of God. But I went to preach there for the first time and there's about 100, 140 or so men who will come to the chapel. And I was told by the chaplain, who's a great PCA man.
He said, listen, brother, I'm glad you're coming to preach. If you don't preach sound doctrine, they'll run you out of here. And I said, really? He goes, I'm serious. You bring the word or don't come at all.
Wow.
That's in a prison that's known as Bloody Bib, one of the most violent prisons in America. And the program has grown so much that one entire side of the prison, one entire bay and dorm has been taken over.
They've actually had to relocate some to the other side. They've called the BTS Jumpstart, which is another ministry we're involved with side, the Garden of Eden. They've called one side of the prison, the Hunger Games.
Well, the ministry has grown so much. They've seen so many converts that they've actually sent others over to the Hunger Games and they've gone as missionaries. They've had their lives threatened. One person has been violently beat and they're going in there and they're saying, we're going to give the gospel.
And these are prisoners. But BTS is involved in that and Ligonier now is too. So what BTS is doing right now is just really remarkable and in many respects, unheard of.
Well, we are out of time. Perhaps if you could just take a minute to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today.
Well, I would be remiss if I didn't say Harry, as much as he was a man to be followed, he was a man who followed the Lord Jesus Christ. And he would tell all of our listeners, pastor and lay person alike, follow after the Lord Jesus Christ with everything you have.
Go all in for Christ and you will see much fruit and much blessing and it will not be a life that is wasted.
Hallelujah. Well, I want to make sure our listeners are reminded of your website, the website for the church where my guest today, Derek Bright, serves as the pastor, is FirstPrezAliceville .org. FirstPrezAliceville .org and that's Aliceville, Alabama.
FirstPrezAliceville .org. I want to thank you so much for being such a superb guest today,.
Derek.
I look forward to your return to the show for more interviews in the future. And I want to thank everybody who listened today. And don't forget, folks, if you did not win a copy of A Pastor's Heart today, Essays in Memory of Harry L. Reader III, go to CVBBS .com, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, CVBBS .com.
They carry all Christian-focused titles and, of course, numerous other publishers' titles. And ask for A Pastor's Heart by Derek Bright, B-R-I-T-E. Well, I want everybody listening to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.