June 4, 2024 Show with Derrick Brite n “A Pastor’s Heart: Essays in Memory of Harry L. Reeder III”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father

James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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And now here's your host Chris Arnson. Good afternoon

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This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this fourth day of June 2024.

Before I introduce my guest and topic for the day, I want to remind all men in ministry leadership that my next free biannual

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio pastors luncheon featuring for the first time our keynote speaker

Dr. Joel Beeky, founder and chancellor of Puritan Reform Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan and author of over a hundred books and very highly sought -after conference speaker.

Well that's being held this Thursday June 6th 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at Church of the

Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania. And the deadline to register was supposed to be yesterday but I thought

I'd give it one more day. It's definitely going to be the largest crowd we've ever had. In fact the registrations keep coming in even though they're late.

And if you are a man in ministry leadership and you'd like to attend this free event send me an email to ChrisArnson at gmail .com.

ChrisArnson at gmail .com and the pastor's luncheon in the subject line not only is the admission free and your lunch free but every man attending will receive one and perhaps maybe even two very heavy sacks of free brand new books personally selected by me and donated by Christian publishers all over the

United States and United Kingdom all absolutely free of charge. So if you want to register send me an email to ChrisArnson at gmail .com

and put pastor's luncheon in the subject line. Well today I am delighted to have a first -time guest.

I remember very vividly on May 18th of last year hearing the tragic news that Pastor Harry L.

Reader III, senior pastor of Briarwood Presbyterian Church in Birmingham Alabama and also a professor at Birmingham Theological Seminary, he died suddenly in a car crash and I remember when

I made the announcement to my listeners I knew right away that I had to conduct a special broadcast in memory of him and God has provided the ideal guest today to do that a little over one year later and I'm thankful to George Grant the pastor of Parish Presbyterian Church in Franklin Tennessee for publicizing the book we are addressing in social media the book which

I'm holding in my hand which just arrived in my doorstep actually five minutes before the show started a pastor's heart essays in memory of Harry L.

Reader III edited by my guest today Derek E. Bright and Derek is pastor of First Presbyterian Church in Aliceville Alabama which is a congregation in the

Presbyterian Church in America and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Trip and Zion Radio pastor

Derek Bright well thank you Chris I guess you could say a longtime listener first time caller well

I I'm glad that you are a longtime listener I was unaware of that until just now and yeah yeah

I've known about you for quite a long time actually in fact I believe the first time

I ever became acquainted with you and with your with your program was actually when you a long time ago for a

James Watt debate I was watching on YouTube and I thought this guy's cracking me up it may have even been the

Bill Shishko pedo -baptism debate oh yeah you made some you made some hilarious comments about all the

Presbyterians are wonder what that big tub is in the back ever since then

I've been listening so I'm honored to be on your program well I am glad that even though you and I are on opposite sides of the infant baptism issue that you still found my routine humorous yeah yeah well

I have a good you know when you're Presbyterian especially growing up where I did where Baptist dominate you kind of have to have thick skin and a good sense of humor so yeah and more folks in our theological camp should learn that lesson too many too many reformed people seem to never crack a smile but I'm glad that there are remnant like you and I who do that's right well first of all tell our listeners more about First Presbyterian Church of Aliceville Alabama yeah thank you

I've been here almost five years and it was my first call out of seminary and it's really a wonderful community it's a small town population floating around 2 ,000 people in West Alabama almost dead center of the state all the way west close to Mississippi and we're about 45 minutes outside of Tuscaloosa Alabama and so for any

Alabama fans we're right down the road if you will and it's a small town it's a historic church the church was founded in 1837 and it was one of the first churches to be a part of the

PCA when the PCA started so it's got a lot of historical background to it and heritage and they called me here about five years ago and the

Lord has really blessed our time it's a wonderful group of people and and we could see ourselves being here for a very long time if the

Lord if the Lord and the people allow it if the Lord allows it and the people can put up with with me we my wife and I would be certainly happy to be here for a long time it's a it's a really a sweet town a sweet spirit very generous and they just love love

Christ and love the gospel amen well if anybody lives in or near Allistown or if you are traveling through that city perhaps on vacation in Alabama or you have family friends and loved ones who live in or near Allistown Alabama the website to find out more details is firstpresallisville .org

firstpresallisville .org and first is spelled out the full word F -I -R -S -T well we have a tradition here on Iron Sherpins Iron Radio whenever we have a first -time guest before we go to the major theme that we have scheduled to address we have that guest give a summary of their salvation testimony which would include the religious atmosphere if any in which they were raised and the kinds of providential circumstances our

Sovereign Lord raised up in their lives that drew them to himself and save them and I would love to hear a summary of your story yeah thank you

I'd be honored to do so I it really starts with I need to mention that my my parents divorced when

I was about six months old and so from that time I really was split between two different households primarily living with my mother and we for the first I don't know probably 13 or 14 years of my life went to church very rarely we were

Easter and Christmas Christians at a minimum and even then it was very short and it was an independent fundamental

Baptist Church and we went primarily because my grandparents were very devoted to that church and once they passed away my family really sought no or they felt no need

I guess to go to church any further but I always had an interest in religious things

I always had questions about church and the Bible and the gospel well about eighth grade

I moved in with my father and stepmother and they are very active faithful Christians and they were going to a church and so I started attending church with them and a

Southern Baptist Church unfortunately that church went through a nasty church split we went to a really a mega church that was in a small town but it was in North Georgia and it was somewhat modeled after Rick Warren but you'll get a kick out of this

Chris the pastor though he really modeled his church after a purpose -driven life the youth pastor is a very serious godly 1689

Reformed Baptist and he believed it was his job to without you know without creating division but to teach the next generation the truth so the faith and so that's exactly what happened and I can specifically remember on a

Wednesday not a Wednesday night youth service there was about 200 kids and him teaching about propitiation from first John and thinking why have

I never heard this and we went on a youth trip a few months later it was

New Year's and we went to a hamburger restaurant in a local town and I remember just sitting there and I was thinking about propitiation and all of a sudden it dawned on me

I need propitiation I need this and there

I prayed to the Lord for him to save me right there in the middle of that restaurant and and about six months later that that same youth pastor who's still a dear friend of mine and ironically his son is my youth pastor now funny enough but he he handed me some very sound solid theological resources and began discipling me into the

Reformed faith and he does somewhat regret that I went into the PCA he'll he'll often tell students now listen you can follow

Derek but don't follow him all the way so but yeah I was

I was really a recipient of a faithful a faithful youth pastor who just taught the

Bible verse by verse taught us theological truths and taught us really the greatness and holiness of God and that's really what what what drew me in if you will that's what the

Lord sought fit to use in my life well praise

God for that and we are as I've already announced today paying tribute to the late

Harry L reader who I have had the privilege of interviewing twice on this program and he wrote a glowing endorsement for iron sharpens iron radio

I was so honored with the privilege of receiving that from him he was such for a man of his stature his prominence in Reformed circles he was an extremely humble and accessible man there was no air of celebrity about him when

I met him he immediately remembered who I was on the several occasions where I met him in person the last one being at Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Quakertown Pennsylvania when he was on the speaking roster at a

Reformed conference there and in fact if you've seen the promotional post on Facebook for our interview today the photograph is not of me and my guest today

Derek bright it's me and Harry L reader at the

Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Quakertown the last time I saw him and if anybody would like to hear my interviews with Harry reader on August 22nd 2022 was the last interview

I conducted with him and the one prior to that was November 7th 2018 but if you just type in reader r -e -e -d -e -r in the search engine at iron trip and Zion radio .com

you will get those two audio links immediately pop up but tell us how you first became familiar with dr.

Harry L reader yeah so like many when I came into the

PCA Harry cast something of a long shadow he was seen immediately

I mean everybody knows he was a leader in our denomination he pastored for a very long time the flagship

Church of the PCA where the first PCA General Assembly was held and so I've always known of him in that way when

I came to Aliceville we support financially the work that's being done at Birmingham Theological Seminary which is housed at Briarwood Presbyterian Church and specifically the prison ministry is something we're involved in and so the president of Birmingham Theological Seminary which is

I greater Harry's son when I first came here he took me out to lunch and wanted to meet me and we became fast friends and he's become one of my dearest and closest friends brother in the

Lord and that propelled that relationship with the reader family and that ended up leading to time spent with Harry whether it was one -on -one or via conference and various other avenues and just being connected to the family and so I first came to be associated with him through just PCA work and then through his son

I greater I became closer to him and closer to that family and he was also Harry was also a board member or rather an executive council member of the

Gospel Reformation Network which is a great organization of PCA minded people trying to further healthy reformed confessional church plants and churches in our denomination and he served on that executive council and being affiliated with them that also allowed me to to get to know him a little better as well so tell us about at least some of them the contributors to this memorial that you have edited a pastor's heart essays in memory of Harry L Rita the third tell us about some of the contributors and why specifically you were you selected them are you there brother for some reason

I do not have my guest with me I have no idea why and oh yes now

I do have no idea what happened there okay I apologize about that maybe

I hit a button or something but we do really do have a great number of contributors for the book and they were chosen for different reasons you know for example we have

Kevin young pastor of cross -covenant church in Charlotte North Carolina Kevin is obviously a leader in our denomination in the broader reformed evangelical world however he pastors a church that Harry himself planted in accordance with that Presbytery so we also have

David strain who pastors first Presbyterian Jackson another leader in our denomination but pastors a major church who's a faithful godly man committed to expository preaching very humble man we have

John Payne who's the he's actually the convener of the

Gospel Reformation Network that I mentioned earlier and someone who is known as a very sound conservative and confessional voice and we just have we actually also have one of Harry's daughters

Jennifer tumor hey she pastored or I'm sure she pastored oh you're really gonna cause trouble but she authored a chapter at the end and so we picked people who were not only close to Harry personally and who were a lot of them were discipled by him such as Brian Cosby pastor of Wayside PCA and Signal Mountain a lot of these men were discipled by him others are were close to him ministerially whether it's his assistant pastor or perhaps there were family members it was people who had been impacted one way or another by his ministry and who knew him well enough to be able to say here's a topic like George Grant obviously you've mentioned him before but George obviously knew

Harry but George was qualified to write on that particular topic as well and be able to bring in not only his own insights but bring in what he learned from Harry and kind of marry the two and and put it in there so so it was really it was interesting editing the book that all of these contributors one of them actually told me recently when he got his copy and he said there seems to be a unified voice in all of these chapters and I said well that's exactly right because the unified voice ultimately is

Harry's we were all discipled by him one way or another and we're just applying what we learned in these chapters so so yeah it was it was a mixture of reasons but primarily people who were impacted by him and closest to him well

I just want to read a couple of the a few of the endorsements written for this book and all of these men whose endorsements

I'm going to read have been guests on iron sharpens iron radio in the past Chris Larson who's the president and CEO of Ligonier ministries in Orlando Florida the ministry founded by the late

Dr. RC Sproul Dr. readers zeal for the gospel of the

Lord Jesus Christ is beautifully honored in a pastor's heart celebrating

God's kindness and calling and raising up this courageous shepherd and leader of God's people also

Jonathan master president of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Taylor South Carolina one of the few biblically sound seminaries left in the

United States Jonathan says yes Jonathan says the chapters contained in this book encompass so many of the things that Harry readers stood for a love for people an ability to teach a love of ideas all of it in service to Christ and to his church and last but not least

Peter a little back of Westminster Theological Seminary in Philadelphia Pennsylvania and also author of an enormous biography of George Washington he says of this book our brother

Harry reader is missed but his legacy is cherished and will yield fruit for generations to come so some powerful endorsements by some powerful leaders in Christ Church well we are going to our first commercial break right now and if any of you have a question for my guest today

Derek bright about Harry L reader our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

CH or is a RN ZEN at gmail .com

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today and mention Iron Trip and Zion Radio we are now back with my guest today

Derek Bright who is the editor of a new book that should be in the hands especially of every pastor but much more than that a pastor's heart essays in memory of Harry L reader the third and if you have a question send it to chrisarnson at gmail .com

chrisarnson at gmail .com give us your first name at least city and state and country of residence well

I'd like you to continue laying our listeners know what is it about Harry L reader that the

Lord basically instilled in his mind heart and ministry that makes him someone that many pastors looked up to as their mentor yeah there's there's quite a bit

I could say to that but I would say that Harry had a unique ability to preach and teach those things that were confessionally

Orthodox and sound doctrine but also do it in such a way that it affected people in the pews so he wasn't an egghead preacher if you will

I hate to use a term but a lot of us geek out over sound doctrine

I do as well but he was one who could say now let's take it to your heart and let's apply it to your hands and feet and get out and apply this how does the reformed faith and how does the

Bible teach us to live as Christians and so we had a unique way of speaking to both the person who would be a pastor but also the person in the pew and applying both of those things and there's an off oft repeated mantra of Harry's which is on mission and on message and in ministry and that was really his how everything applied everything was you know you you wanted to be a person who was on mission who had the message right but also was active in ministry and so he was very he was very good at that and conveying that and conveying how the

Bible applies to our daily lives he was a natural disciple maker and that's something that I've learned personally from him and have been challenged on by him is how to make disciples and do it in a way that is has the long -term health of the church and the person in mind and he was uniquely gifted in that I share a story in the editor's note of the book that several people have commented on including his his wife

Cindy reader when I first met Harry now

I'd actually met him before and we talked but the first time I actually got to sit down one -on -one with him and pick his brain

I was a new pastor and I emailed him and and I wanted to sit down with him and say listen

I pastor a small church in a small town help me I've got here's some things

I'm dealing with help me and he took the time and here's a guy who speaks at Ligonier conferences and all these other things and he didn't hesitate and he said yes please come by and we scheduled a date and time

I drove an hour and a half to Birmingham I walked in and I said dr. reader it's such a pleasure to meet with you and he said please don't call me doctor

I'm not even good enough to be a nurse and yeah it was so funny

I laughed right then and he he was being you know somewhat serious about that and he said please just call me

Harry and and we went into his office and it was really almost like a waiting room and it we're surrounded by these pictures of of godly men of the past and and he says so tell me brother about your ministry and I begin to tell him what

I'm dealing with and and what I what I'm what I feel if the Lord is doing here and I also all these things and he began to just pour wisdom into me and it was this faithful here's how you stick to what the

Bible says and not fall into any kind of traps that progressive

Christianity or some kind of neo -evangelical would have you to do don't don't follow what the church growth gurus tell you here's how you follow the

Bible and here's how you put it basically in the pew and it was such good advice and I think he's done that for everybody he had pastored for so long and so faithfully that no matter where you were in ministry you were able to come to him and say here's what

I'm dealing with whether you were at the beginning of your ministry or nearing the end he had some kind of wisdom for you that was sound and biblical and and that's something that I think is somewhat lost in in many today he did not capitulate to the spirit of the age and he stayed steadfast to the

Word of God and poured out everything he had like a Paul says poured out like a drink offering that was

Harry's really his mentality and he did that for a lot of people and he made time for people and so there's a lot of things again

I could say he was but he was very contagious and his approach well we've had you already provide a summary of your salvation testimony what can you tell us about Harry's upbringing and how he came to know his

Lord God Savior and King Jesus Christ and anything that you may know about when he believed that he had the call from God to enter into pastoral ministry yeah it's interesting because Harry was somebody who if you knew anything about here he loved baseball and his whole life he went to college and played baseball and wanted to play probe and he was he was in a true athlete and when he met

Cindy and they started going together and it got serious you know she was a very serious

Christian and wanted to bring him I wanted to make sure that she was with somebody who believed that same thing and he was somebody who

I think I remember him saying something about well we can't we needed a church to go to I think they had gotten married and he said you know we can't go to the church that I that I had grown up in because they all knew who

I really was and so they picked a church happened to be a Presbyterian church and where nobody knew them and the pastor that day basically keyed in on him and really forced him into a discipleship situation and and so Harry really came to cross and came to a an understanding of a biblical

Christianity and ministry under the the faithful work of a you know a regular pastor and who wanted to disciple him and that really changed his life really forever that changed the whole trajectory of everything he cared about and everything he wanted to do so he he you know he mentions he lived he lived a very worldly life for a long time and and of course

Cindy his his dear wife helped him out with with getting on the right track but a faithful a faithful regular pastor really discipled him and and brought him into the faith well we have

Gerard from Hoboken New Jersey which I believe is the birthplace of Frank Sinatra just a

Gerard asks what was dr. readers reaction when the revoice controversy raised its ugly head in the

Presbyterian Church in America that's a very good question and why don't you explain to our listeners who may be completely ignorant of what that even is why don't you tell them about what revoice was or is yeah absolutely so revoice was a or is

I think it's still in existence as a ministry that is geared towards those in the

LGBTQ plus you know rainbow coalition if you will and originally when they started out their mission statement was to help people continue in a biblical view of marriage and same -sex relationships unfortunately what happened what we saw was really some bad fruit from that and we saw what it became known as is something that promoted side

B quote -unquote gay Christianity yeah in fact I don't know if you're aware I just fairly recently arranged a debate over that heresy between dr.

James are white of Alpha Omega ministries that's right very long time dear friend of mine who debated dr.

Gregory Coles who identifies himself as a gay

Christian and a side B Christian which is basically among the the folks that are in that realm of activity or mindset people who believe they have a proclivity or an inclination towards same -sex attraction but they do believe that to bring that to a physical consummation is sinful and even to lust towards anyone whether it's your same sex or somebody else from an opposite sex that is sinful but there's nothing wrong with the innate state as if there were such a thing and there's nothing that needs repenting from if you're not involved physically in homosexuality or lusting there's nothing to repent from and yeah so that's what that's so so anyway dr.

yeah that's right and he made it clear that was a identity yeah

I was just gonna say dr. white made it clear in that debate that dr. Coles had no legitimate biblical support for that but I'm sorry

I interrupted you no I interrupted you I apologize I this is you're absolutely right and you're right

James I did a great job of that it became an issue of identity and there's really it became really a

Roman Catholic view of concupiscence and sin and they some of the speakers in that conference and that ministry tried to equate being physically disabled with having homosexual attraction which there's no correlation of course and it really rocked our denomination and rocked other denominations

Harry was actually vocal opponent of side B he administered to many people who struggle with same -sex attraction had discipled them but revoice and you called it a heresy earlier and I would agree with that Harry was vocal even on the floor of General Assembly I believe this 2019 the

PCA had before it to affirm the Nashville statement on human sexuality as biblically faithful or not and he employed that same statement at his church they also wrote their own statement but he spoke on the floor basically in favor of the

Nashville statement and saying this is a discipleship issue which was dear to Harry's heart this is an errant view of sexuality and of Anthropology and we need to get to what the

Bible says and disciple people and you and ultimately can't identify as a gay

Christian I want to put it that way for our listeners here but Harry was a vocal opponent of revoice and side

B and I would say that without his voice and without his leadership we would be in much worse position in the

PCA than we are now well guess what Gerard you have won a free copy of a pastor's heart essays in memory of Harry L reader the third edited by my guest today

Derek bright and we thank Donnie Morrison my friend for many years over at Christian focused publications for being so generous as to donate to us a limited number of copies of this book that we're giving away today and we also want to thank

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CV bbs .com who will actually be shipping this book out to you

Gerard so we need your full mailing address in Hoboken New Jersey and by the way if you are a first -time questioner

Gerard you have also won a free New American Standard Bible and we want to thank the publishers of the

NASB NAS Bible comm for providing us with free

Bibles for first -time questioners the

I know that dr. reader was a strong voice for biblical authenticity and integrity one might nickname that conservative but it's far more than that did he have any opponents that you are aware of either within the

PCA or outside yeah he did have some in the sense that there were people perhaps who on the outside maybe saw photos or looked at at Harry and you know for example he was somebody who was anti woke anti revoiced things like that and so there were people on the outside of course who criticized him people even in the

PCA who might want to criticize that I think of one particular example from several years ago Harry had the mentality of wanting to preach the gospel wherever he had an opportunity so if you know if the

Mormon Church were to invite him for some reason to speak at some event he would go but he would explicitly teach the gospel he explicitly teaches the

Trinity he just took all those opportunities so a few years ago I remember a photo floating around the internet of him preaching at a at an event it was almost like a rally a rally for southern confederates and there was a lot of rebel flags and it was an all white you know group and what and people criticized him said oh he's a neo confederate well if you actually go and hear what he had to say he called people to to repent of racism and to follow the gospel and to follow biblical truth but people only saw the photo so it's mainly people who really didn't know

Harry that were the biggest critics they might see a photo or they might see something he says it was the people who knew him who said oh gosh he's nothing like what you're what you think he is not of the crowd out of the crowd at that confederate group react you know

I think from what I understand I think they actually responded fairly positively and he was somebody who was something of a civil war and just war in general buff and often his illustrations and when he would talk to men about leadership which was very dear to his heart he would use illustrations from war and civil war and things like that and so it was almost like he had he had the knowledge to be able to relate to him but then he would call them to repent of any racism they had and I think people really bought into what he was saying because he wasn't someone who did it from a woke perspective if you will he was somebody came in and said

I'm faithful to the scriptures I'm faithful to the reform tradition but I'm also we need to address what's happening here and this is inconsistent with biblical

Christianity and and that actually won a ton of people's respect that way because of his approach in that so he was somebody who never who never compromised but somebody who was willing to go and I think even if it meant a bad photo op he was willing to do that for the sake of telling the truth and for the sake of the gospel and discipleship and I think that's something we could all learn from perhaps amen well we have to go to our midway break right now and if you could please be patient with us because the midway break is always a little longer than the other breaks because grace life radio 90 .1

FM in Lake City Florida requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because they are required by the

FCC to localize iron sharpens iron radio and all of their programs geographically to Lake City Florida where the radio stations located they do so by airing their own public service announcements and other local things while we on the other hand simultaneously air our globally heard commercials

I'm asking you to please use this time wisely write down as much of the contact information as you possibly can for as many of our advertisers as you can so that you can more frequently and successfully contact our advertisers keep in mind that we cannot exist without the financial support of our advertisers so please try to respond to their commercials as often as you can and also of course send in your questions to my guest

Derek bright on his book a pastor's heart essays in memory of Harry L Rita the third and the email address again is

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No matter where in the world you live, send us an email to chrisorrenson at gmail .com and put

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I need a church in the subject line. That's also where you could send in a question to my guest Derek Bright, chrisorrenson at gmail .com

And we have a question from Charlie in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. Did Dr.

Reeder publish any writings or leave any as a legacy? Oh, yes, he is a published author.

I've interviewed him on a couple of his books, but if you could follow up with an answer of your own.

Absolutely, that's a great question. So he does have some published works. He has

Embers to a Flame, which is his church revitalization work. He also has 3D Leadership, a book on biblical leadership, which is very, very helpful.

But he actually left a ton for a legacy and in fact

Birmingham Theological Seminary has started the Reeder Center for Pastoral Ministry and what the

Reeder Center does is we're seeking to endow the program and part of what the job of the

Reeder Center will do is taking Harry's material, whether it be his sermons and teachings and conference messages, but also things that he maybe wrote and never published or didn't finish and putting out books basically authored by him and sometimes co -authored by other people who might want who might be chosen to jump in and but putting out his material and we already have over 40 books just from Dr.

Reeder's materials lined up to come out of the Reeder Center for Pastoral Ministry. And so yes, he's published and yes, there's more coming.

There are a lot of books coming. In fact, I can't give all the details, but there's even a work being done for a church in Pakistan on the

Apostles' Creed right now. And so yes, Dr.

Reeder was published and we're going to publish a whole lot more and major publishers RHB, Christian Focus, and others have expressed interest in getting those resources out.

So we're really looking forward to what the Reeder Center is going to do with those. Well, thank you,

Charlie. And by the way, I know Charlie and Charlie is the founder of a ministry that everybody should know about.

Charlie's full name is actually Charlie Liebert and he is the founder of sixdaycreation .com

and it's spelled the the number six is spelled out S -I -X, sixdaycreation .com

and I urge everybody to make use of that wonderful resource. Thank you,

Charlie. And by the way, you have won a free copy of A Pastor's Heart. And if you come into the pastor's luncheon this

Thursday, I will give that to you. We have somebody with an unusual name.

I like the name, Harber in Cave Spring, Virginia. And Harber asks one of the problems with churches today, perhaps even especially if they are larger numerically, is the lack of church discipline.

I was wondering what Dr. Reeder's not only thoughts were on the subject, but if the church where he pastored was known for actively participating in that unfortunately necessary activity.

Yeah, another great question. So Harry and some of us by virtue of being in the

PCA, we try to take church discipline very seriously. Harry did as well, and I know that they've had some situations in the past, thankfully not very often.

He did pastor a large church, but they did take church discipline very seriously.

And the way that we view church discipline in general in the PCA is that everybody, whether you're in trouble or not for that matter, is under church discipline in the sense that we're all called to repent.

We're all called to be under the authority of the session to examine ourselves before the Lord's Supper, things like that.

And so when the need arose for things to be taken a step further,

Harry was able and willing to do that. He was very long -suffering in that wanting to work with sinners, wanting to work with people and call them to repentance and disciple them back to the truth.

But if there was a situation where church discipline arose, they would do that.

And the thing about being in a big church like Briarwood, for that example, they have a ton of elders.

In fact, they have so many ruling elders at their church that a session meeting for their church would be bigger than even my

Presbytery meetings here in West Alabama. One of the virtues or one of the benefits of that perhaps is that because they have so many pastors and because they have so many elders, they're able to keep track with a lot of people.

People don't fall through the cracks as much as you might think they would and they're so discipleship oriented.

That was really his mentality. Everything was about discipleship and because that's the case, they were able to help a lot of people and when necessary, discipline a lot of people.

The audience member or the questioner is correct. Discipline is much needed, but it's often neglected.

But I think that Harry, I know for sure Harry was serious about it when the need arose and I know that he was a very long -suffering and wanting sinners to repent and come back to the truth.

Amen, and that is it's a really sad commentary on the modern church that so many churches just completely ignore the biblical warrant, the biblical command to conduct church discipline.

And they think that they're being more loving and kind by doing that perhaps or maybe they just are so fearful of losing popularity and people perhaps especially even those that are putting money in the plate every

Sunday that they refrain from this, but that that is not a loving act.

By the way, Derek, I don't know if you know this about me, but I tragically after 18 years of sobriety fell off the wagon and became immersed in drunkenness, habitual unrepentant drunkenness, and I believe that being placed under church discipline in my own congregation years ago saved my life.

Not only more importantly restored me to the church and a right relationship with the

Lord, but I believe physically it saved my life. I don't even believe I'd be sitting here talking to you if they didn't do that.

So that was an act, that was an act of love. Yep. Absolutely.

I'm glad you shared. I did not know that about you. I'm glad you shared that. I was actually speaking to somebody recently and this wasn't about Harry or Briarwood, but I was explaining a story about the church that I was previously a member at and interned at in the

PCA and there was a family, the man had had an affair. He left his wife and children, moved a couple states away, was living in sin and had attempted to join another church in our denomination, but keep his life secret.

And our pastor caught wind of that. He and some elders actually drove a couple states away to confront the man.

It was on a Sunday morning. That church that the man was going to had no idea what was going on and what they did was they, when my pastor walked in, they surrounded the guy, wanted to defend him, which was godly of them.

But when my pastor explained and said, no, you don't understand. He's abandoned his wife and family and he's underdisciplined from us.

He's been suspended from the sacraments. He's on his way to excommunication. We're here to call him in repentance.

That session of that church broke down and wept. And long story short, that man ended up repenting, returning to his family.

And when I was being told the story, they said, we won't tell you what family it is. If we did though, you would never suspect it because that man is a model husband and father that all of our church looks up to, but you'd never know it was them.

But it took church discipline and people being serious about it for that to happen.

And Harry was the kind of man who would show up on your doorstep and knock on the door and want to deal with it and want to call you back.

And so I'm glad you shared that. That's such a blessing. Church discipline really is a gift from the

Lord that is not, yes, it's a hard thing, but it is a loving thing that the end goal in our book of church order states, and I know

Baptists feel the same way, that the end goal of church discipline is not excommunication.

The end goal of church discipline is for a sinner to be restored to the fellowship. Yes, amen.

And we were serious about that. Amen. And by the way, as I try to do as often as I can,

I love to sing the praises about a addiction recovery ministry in Boone, North Carolina, where I went and admitted myself after being put under church discipline, hebroncolony .org

hebroncolony .org. I know some people pronounce it hebron, h -e -b -r -o -n colony .org.

I I admitted myself into that wonderful ministry well over a decade ago and left there never desiring a drop of alcohol again.

Now, I know that some of my Reformed listeners may be wondering, where do

I stand on the liberty to drink? Well, I believe that Christians do have the liberty to drink. I don't.

And thank God I don't even have the desire to—not that everybody who goes through a recovery program has the same reaction as I did, or response, or change of desires in that realm.

But thank God I did, and I know that I have to take— he who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.

I always have to remind myself of that, but I I just want to praise God for Hebron Colony for the amazing work

God did through them in my life. Let's see, we have

Roderick in Southampton, Long Island, New York, and Roderick says, what can you say about Dr.

Reeder that maybe stands out in his successful approach and accomplishment of things in the pastoral ministry that may be lacking in far too many churches in our day and age?

Oh goodness, where do I begin? I would say that there's a couple things that I'd want to point out.

First is one of the things that I think is lacking, especially in a man of his stature and position, is humility and a willingness to be present for people.

He was not someone, though he pastored a very large church, he was not someone who saw himself as this major conference speaker who was detached from the life of his congregation.

He believed that shepherds ought to smell like sheep and even though he had four or five thousand sheep, he, to the best of his ability, was involved in their lives and did a lot of things for people that others didn't see, including marrying people.

Maybe it was they were widows, it was their second marriage, in his office with his robe on and everything, with nobody there but one witness.

But doing things in such a way that nobody would ever see what he was doing, but it was the true work of the shepherd.

The second thing I would say is that Harry was gifted in leadership and discipleship, and he wasn't just a preacher, he wasn't just a teacher, he wasn't just a seminary professor, but he actually sought to invest in the life of his elders and also other pastors and show them how to lead their congregations, show them how to disciple others, and I think that there's a missing piece for many in our circles today in that discipleship often gets, that discussion often gets dominated by the broad evangelical church that's focused more on, you know, pragmatic things and practical approaches, and Harry did not see any kind of you know, disagreement or disjunction between solid reformed biblical teaching and preaching and leadership and discipleship.

He wanted to marry the two, and I think that we would do well to not only model his love for biblical and reformed truth, but also to lead and disciple others, whomever

God gives us in our path. I think he had a unique ability to do that. So that's why I recommend his book on 3D leadership.

Not many reformed authors put out a book on leadership, but he did, because it was something that he was passionate about and something he was successful about.

So I would say those two things. Excellent question, and please give me your full mailing address in Southampton, New York, so that we can have

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service ship to you a free copy of A Pastor's Heart, Essays in Memory of Harry L.

Reader III, edited by my guest today, Derek Bright, and once again, we thank

Christian Focus Publications for their generosity in providing these giveaway copies, and we thank

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com for shipping these books out.

Let's see here. We have

William, and William lives in Cooperstown, New York, home of the

Baseball Hall of Fame, and William asks, is there anything that made

Dr. Reader different as far as a position he held in regard to the

Reformed faith that may not be all that common? Yeah, that's a good question.

I don't think there was really anything as far as a doctrinal position goes that he held that was different.

I mean, he was pretty vanilla Reformed theology. You know, he was,

I would say, he was more willing perhaps to implement, now it's a still fairly traditional worship service, but he was probably more willing to implement at times different instruments and things, and he was,

I think he was willing, in fact, I know he was willing not on the Lord's Day, but during the week to implement different ideas of outreach.

He was, you know, whether it was, because they have the school there, whether it was some kind of ballet or whatever the case is, during the week outreach, there was a lot of opportunities and different avenues for that, but that was different, separate from the

Lord's Day worship, of course, but yeah, he was a pretty vanilla Westminsterian, you know,

Reformed guy. He didn't hold any views that you'd go, huh, I'm surprised he holds that. No, he was pretty straight down the middle on things.

That's great to know. Perhaps he broke the mold, however, with uh, you know, we who are

Reformed have some negative stereotypes. Sometimes they're completely slanderous.

Sometimes they're fairly accurate, unfortunately, all too often. I, from what

I have gathered from meeting Dr. Reader and interviewing him, he was no dry, dusty, professorial individual behind the pulpit.

No, not at all. He was a very passionate man. He spoke with passion, spoke with authority.

And yeah, if he loved something or felt strongly about something, you knew it, and he was a man of opinions.

He had some, they were strong, but also the flip side of that, and it's funny, you mentioned

Puritan Reformed and Joel Beakey and The Luncheon, and I'm a student, a post -grad student at Puritan.

It makes me think some of Joel Beakey and they were friends that there is a certain piety in the right sense, a certain love and affection they have for Christ and the church.

And Harry was that way. Yes, he was strong opinion about doctrine, but he was strong in his love and affection for the

Lord and for his church. You're right. He was not dry. He was very passionate about the things that he loved, and you know,

I think you're right. We often get characterized with being dry, you know, the frozen chosen that often comes up, but that was not true of him.

Amen, and thank God for that. We need more men like Harry Reader, for certain, a very dynamic preacher.

And I know that some of my Presbyterian listeners may be insulted by this, but the kind of preaching that would make a

Reformed Baptist happy. That's right. That's right. Well, hey, there's a reason that people of different denominations would have

Harry come and speak. It's not because he was a dry academic, that's for sure. Amen.

Well, we're going to our final break, and if you do have a question for my guest today,

Derek Bright, on Harry L. Reader III, I strongly urge you to send in that question immediately, because we are rapidly running out of time.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away. We're going to be right back after these messages. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

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But today I want to introduce you to my senior pastor Doug McMasters of New High Park Baptist Church on Long Island.

Doug McMasters here, former Director of Pastoral Correspondence at Grace to You, the

Radio Ministry of John MacArthur. In the film Chariots of Fire, the Olympic gold medalist runner

Eric Liddell remarked that he felt God's pleasure when he ran. He knew his efforts sprang from the gifts and calling of God.

I sensed that same God -given pleasure when ministering the word and helping others gain a deeper knowledge and love for God.

That love starts with the wonderful news that the Lord Jesus Christ is a savior who died for sinners and that God forgives all who come to him in repentance, trusting solely in Christ to deliver them.

I would be delighted to have the honor and privilege of ministering to you if you live in the Long Island area or Queens or Brooklyn or the

Bronx in New York City. For details on New High Park Baptist Church visit nhpbc .com

That's nhpbc .com You can also call us at 516 -352 -9672

That's 516 -352 -9672 That's New High Park Baptist Church a congregation in love with each other passionate for Christ Committed to learning and being shaped by God's word and delighting in the gospel of God's sovereign grace.

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Arm yourself with tools of liberty at armoredrepublic .com I Am pastor keith allen of linbrook baptist church a christ -centered gospel driven church looking to spread the gospel in the southwest portion of Long island new york and play our role in fulfilling the great commission

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Oh This is pastor bill sasa grace church at franklin here in the beautiful state of tennessee

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Tell the folks at hope reform baptist church of quorum, long island, new york that you heard about them from tony costa on iron sharpens iron

Foreign Chris arnson here

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Well, we are back with my guest today. Derek bright and we are going to be continuing to discuss

Until the end of the program a pastor's heart essays in memory of harry l reader the third

And if you have a question, please submit it to chris arnzen at gmail .com

chris arnzen at gmail .com Give us your first name at least Your city and state of residence and your country of Residence if you live outside the usa

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal private matter

Uh, let's see we have Cj and lyndon hearst long island new york and cj wants to know

Was dr reader always reformed in his theology? Please forgive me if I missed this earlier on I just tuned in That's a good question.

So In one sense. Yes in that when he was discipled early on Um, you know, he was discipled by a reformed pastor, but he actually started out a lot of people don't know this at tennessee temple

In chattanooga, tennessee and before he went to westminster and of course tennessee temples and Independent fundamental baptist school or was rather they're no longer in existence and he ended up leaving there

Over differences he had on the reformed faith. Um so, uh, he was a longtime reformed man, um,

I think that he uh, depending on your definition of reform perhaps wasn't as reformed as um when he entered the ministry early on but uh um, you know,

I think um Yeah, once he once he left temple and went to westminster, that's where it really took off Well cj, please make sure you give us your full mailing address

In lyndon hearst because you've just won a pastor's heart Do you know any area of?

ministry where dr reader Perhaps had a change of heart and changed

The manner in which he conducted a certain area of his ministry or belief uh, and uh

You know, perhaps even raised eyebrows surprised people that he did so Yeah, that's a good question, uh, the only one that I can maybe think of Is that uh early on from my understanding in his ministry and this is a little bit more of secondhand information

But it's my understanding that perhaps he was a little more broad in his views on worship and um, and even on Certain confessional matters and it was in his later years um, really or maybe even the second half of his ministry that he began to tighten up more and began to become more

Uh, dare I say conservative in his views on that. Um, I think early on he was a little bit more broad

Um from what I understand, um, then the way he then the way he ended Okay, uh, we have benny in louisville, kentucky

And benny says are you aware of any close friendships that dr reader had?

With those in ministry outside of his own denomination and perhaps even theological perspectives

Yes, uh, he did have uh friendships with um a number of baptist pastors, especially, um

There's a lot of uh african -american pastors in birmingham that he had close friendships with that are in predominantly historically

Um, you know african -american denominations and churches and he had a close relationship with them

And did a lot in the community with them and uh, and and often even uh, in fact recently spoke at one of their events and uh part of that too is has been passed on to birmingham theological seminary, which is um houses students from various different denominations including including those so He did have friendships that were outside just the pca reformed

Um, and a lot of them were with minority pastors who uh ministered in his city

Why don't you uh spend a little bit more time even though we've mentioned it A couple of times.

In fact, you just mentioned the birmingham theological seminary Why don't you take a little bit more time to explain that in more detail?

Yeah, so birmingham theological seminary is housed at briarwood though we offer online

Second -classes that actually stretch across the world. We have people in different countries taking classes as well as in bibb county correctional facility at federal prison here in alabama and It was started by frank barker who pastored and planted

Briarwood presbyterian church and then was succeeded by harry reader and now

In addition to having thousands of students worldwide offering solid reformed and accessible and financially accessible classes

They are housing the reader center the reader center for pastoral ministry

Is not just a department within bts, but it's ultimately Part of a larger ministry and legacy of dr.

Reader which will house his publishing Putting out future books and materials based on his teaching.

It'll also provide scholar an annual run of scholarships for 10 students with a focus on Taking Taking people who are primary, you know, primarily those who want to be pastors and really teaching and discipling them

With a particular focus to go out to revitalize and plant churches That was something that harry was known for with the lampstand used to be embers to a flame but the lampstand conference on revitalization and so we're seeking to endow that that department and Which will again give 10 scholarships to each student or to i'm sorry 10 scholarships

For 10 students on an annual basis full ride to get their degree as well as house his publishing

From here on out and it's so far. It just started but it's been a great blessing to see that and bts um serves at an accessible rate

You know students from really all stripes of the evangelical landscape and We unashamedly hold to the westminster confession in fact if you take

A class on the westminster confession, for example, I would probably be your professor and I take no exceptions

Uh to the confession i'm very conservative in that way and so Uh, I would teach you as if uh, you know,

I would teach you with no exceptions. Um Same thing with the doctrine of god. I would um, but uh, we have a very sound group of faculty and um

One of the things that bts has been able to do because it's financially accessible is we keep our overhead low um

And so we don't have people who are full -time faculty Uh as far as uh teachers go we don't have full -time professors

Um, and so we keep the cost of tuition low um Which helps service people who especially can't go through a traditional route in seminary, you know

The traditional route is you would quit your job Move away go live on campus or go live in that town and go to school full -time well

That works for a lot of people and that's a great model, but not everybody can do that Um, some people need to go part -time keep their job, whatever the case is, but you don't want to go to you know

A diploma mill or somewhere that doesn't have high quality professors. No, we have the same professors other schools have

Sometimes they teach for both schools um, but we do it at an accessible rate keeping our overhead low and um

It was something that harry was passionate about and uh, we we seek to model ourselves

After him and frank barker in that we want to hold a high view of doctrine high view of the bible

The sufficiency and errancy of scripture the truth of the reformed faith and we also want to help you

Get the practical element. How does this work itself out in the life of the church and how can we?

um teach you even to revitalize a church plan a church um, if you take a healthy church, how can we further that growth and health and see it at the next step and it's um, you know, and I already mentioned this but Some of the students that I have

I teach at the often at the prison in bibb county and ligonier actually is a partner with us

For those who love ligonier ministries, they provide the library. They're also a big supporter Chris larson was down just last year to tour the prison and sit in on some of the classes

And uh people would be shocked to see what's going on at bibb county correctional facility

I have masters and doctoral students there Um who are doing great work and the papers they turn in praise god

I mean, it's just unbelievable what we've been it's the closest thing to a revival a historic revival that i've ever seen

And chris larson when he came We were all sitting in a room and at one point he said

Is this real? Are y 'all just putting on an act for us? I've been to we're involved in so many prison ministries

I've never seen one like this and we said no this is really how it is I mean he he sat in on a class and here are some inmates

Some of them serving life sentences for murder and all other manner of things and the question one of the questions was well explain to me the hypostatic union and the guy who's a

Who probably never got out of prison says it's the doctrine of the two natures of christ and and he began to explain

How the two natures are important in the one person and how it's important for our redemption and and you're thinking where am

I? Am I really in a prison? Huh? Um And in fact when I went to preach there one time, um

You'll love this chris. I I went to preach there before I began to teach seminary classes. I've taught covenant theology um, i'm going to be teaching, um covenant theology again and uh there but uh and doctrine of god, but I um

I went to preach there for the first time and there's about 100 140 or so Uh men who will come to the chapel and I was told by the chaplain

Um, who's a great pca man. He said listen brother. Um, i'm glad you're coming to preach Um, if you don't preach sound doctrine, they'll run you out of here

And I said really he goes i'm serious you bring the word or don't come at all Wow, that's in a prison that's known as bloody bib one of the most violent prisons in america

Wow, and the program has grown so much That one entire side of the prison one entire bay

Um and dorm has been taken over. They've actually had to relocate Some to the other side they've called the the bts jumpstart, which is another ministry we're involved with Side the garden of eden they've called one side of the prison, uh, the hunger games

Well, the ministry has grown so much They've seen so many converts that they've actually sent others over to the hunger games and they've gone as missionaries

They've had their lives threatened Uh, one, uh person has been violently beat and they're going in there and they're saying we're going to give the gospel

And these are prisoners Um, but bts is is involved in that and ligonier now is too

So what bts is doing right now is just really remarkable and in many respects unheard of Well, uh, we are out of time

Perhaps if you could just take a minute to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today

Well, I would be remiss if I I didn't say that, uh, you know harry as much as he was a man to be followed

He was a man who followed the lord jesus christ. Amen And and he would tell all of our listeners pastor and lay person alike follow after the lord jesus christ with everything you have go all in for christ and um,

You will see much fruit and much blessing and it will not be a lot a life that is wasted

Hallelujah. Well, I want to make sure our listeners are reminded of your website uh

The website for the church Where my guest today?

Uh, derek bright serves as the pastor uh is first prez aliceville .org

First prez aliceville .org and that's aliceville, alabama First prez aliceville .org.

I want to thank you so much for being such a superb guest today Derek I look forward to your return to the show

For more interviews in the future And I want to thank everybody who listened today And don't forget folks if you uh did not win a copy of a pastor's heart today

Essays in memory of harry l reader the third go to cv bbs .com cumberland valley bible book service cvbbs .com

they carry all christian focused titles and of course numerous other publishers titles

And ask for a pastor's heart by Derek bright b -r -i -t -e

Well, I want Everybody listening to always remember for the rest of your lives that jesus christ