Steve Ray's Inconsistency

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now 602 9 7 3 4 6 0 2 or toll-free across the United States. It's 1 8 7 7 7 5 3 3 3 4 1. And now with today's topic here is James white.

Travel Plans, Upcoming Debates, and Ministry Schedule

And good afternoon. Welcome to the dividing line on a Thursday afternoon. It is the 13th of September 2012. Currently if you're listening, of course on the way back machine, it could be whatever time 3 a .m. In the morning in December of 2014 if we're still around then if we're still allowed to say the things we're saying these days in 2014, I Cannot be guaranteed of any of that actually, but anyway, welcome to the program.

This will be the last program. This will be the last program of the dividing line until the 27th of September. That's barring any travel issues Lord willing will return on the 26th. I'll be leaving on Saturday and Just a reminder on the 17th Monday East London Mosque a debate on whether Muhammad is Prophesied in the Bible on the 19th debate at Trinity Road Chapel on the subject of surah 4 157 and the cross on the 21st of September I Will be in Germany in Berlin for a Discussion a the topic that has been assigned to me is visa Bernetta gain.

We're apologetic in inner post modern and not christian belt. Thankfully, I will not be delivering that in German. I will Throw a few in. I'll throw a few phrases in and I think my German friends would say that I I did pronounce that correctly generally anyways but that is why do we need apologetics in a postmodern and post Christian world and I think the answer that's fair straightforward but obviously there's much that we can say about that and certainly in Germany that is one of the primary issues that you are dealing with.

Turretin fan just insulted me and channel by saying for those wondering that was German with a Scottish accent. No, it was not. Das ist das ist nicht eristisch mein himm. No, so Someone asking is it possible to stream the DL on an iPad?

Well, of course it is. Phones iPads iPods as long as they have as long as they have connectivity you can so anyways That is the 21st of September 1900. In at EBT see Berlin have a lender ring 40 1 2 6 2 9 Berlin and Translation will be provided including translation into Scottish.

Just kidding, but that will be on the 21st of September. That's Friday on Sunday I'll be back in London and we'll be preaching at Trinity Road Chapel Which is near Wandsworth Common if you're familiar with the area that's the same location as the debate on the 19th on the Monday the 24th the Double debate two debates with Adnan Rashid on the transmission of the New Testament and the transmission of the Quran in comparison to one another and That will be at Twin Holm Baptist Church.

All of this is on the website in our banner ads the very pretty banner ads that that has seemed son of Ramallah king of graphics has provided to us and Then I have a Little trip to make on the 25th, which actually is quite important, but I really can't talk about it yet but if you're a supporter of the ministry and things like that you might want to pray about the 25th and the trip I will be taking at that time and the possibility of a Major future project I think is very important and then home on the 26th.

So unless I have become Uber ill or something, then the next program will be on Thursday the 27th of September by the way, rich, I would like to request that the Humidity be gone by the time I get back, please I Would appreciate that that is the last week of September.

I don't ever remember it lasting that long. Oh, no, second second week is the second week of September is yeah actually looking at the at the Weather forecasts over the weekend. It looks like it that big blue blob of dry air finally comes back where it belongs here in the desert Southwest and it'll be it'll be nice, which means they'll probably warm up again, but a dry warm up again, which is not under Not unusual.

Anyhow, that's what's coming up and I'm looking forward to meeting all of you. It's just amazing to me that our good friend London truth is gonna be flying all the way from Milwaukee to London just to provide me with Security.

While I'm while I'm there, I think it's just that's just great. It's wonderful of him to have such a deep dedication to the ministry and things like that. I'm looking for that. Okay, that's what's that's what's coming up this weekend obviously a couple things we need to we need to talk about.

Creep of Dhimmitude and the U.S. Embassy Response to the Libya Attack

I Let me just let me just read it again. You've probably read it you've heard about it, but it's just one of the most amazing examples of dimitude. Dimitude is d hi mm. I t u de dimitude is the attitude of the subjugated peoples under the Islamic State and Evidently it is also the attitude of the regime of Barack Hussein Obama.

Obama. Because we read the Embassy of the United States in Cairo condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims as We condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions.

Well except Christianity today the 11th anniversary of the September 11th 2001 terrorist attacks in the United States Americans are honoring our patriots and those who serve our nation as the fitting response to the enemies of democracy.

Respect for religious beliefs is a cornerstone of American democracy. We firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others. Are you talking about the people that stormed into the embassy?

Are you talking about the folks in Libya that killed the ambassador and two Navy SEALs and people like that? Is that what you're talking about? No, that's not what they're talking about. No, they're talking about a stupid movie a Stupid movie.

I've never even seen it. I'd I'd never even heard of it. I had to go online and watch some trailers and it looked like I mean, I'm sorry I do a much better job with my little still camera in my library than this thing.

You've got people with with glued on beards doing dumb stuff To to mock Muhammad. Okay. Wow, that's great. Don't tell me that's why a well-planned attack happened in Libya on September 11th, don't don't even give me that it was clearly that the movie is clearly just a Pretext for everything else, but let's put that aside.

What rational adult human being Thinks that a stupid movie made halfway around the world is Sound reason for murder pillage Invasion and everything else. It's just it's beyond absurd and for the government.

I Mean, let me guarantee you just one little thing. I'm old enough now. I can remember back I remember back to sort of in my opinion the last great American president and When Rinaldus Magnus was president United States Nobody would have put out a press release like that.

Let me tell you the response would have been with f -11 fighter bombers not with a statement of utter dimitude. I mean, this is ridiculous. And again, you know why because the people in charge of the government of the United States do not understand what's going on over there.

They don't understand it. I mean, I saw unfortunately and I saw a very little discussion of this, but I saw unfortunately a a Still from a movie of well, I'm sorry movie video of one of the murderers in Libya Carrying off the almost totally naked body of the ambassador.

Now, why would they do that? Why would they strip him? Folks, you just need to understand what what's what was going on here. This was an attack upon the United States. It was a it was a religiously motivated attack and if You just grasp the fact that Islam is a political political religious system or a or a religio political system Depending on whether it's in the minority or majority then you'd understand it the man represented the dominion of the coffers over the state of Islam.

His death and then his his humiliation in death Was a political statement. It was a statement that says the enemies of Islam will be destroyed now. I know that there are Muslims Who thankfully look at that and they go that's horrific.

That's not how our faith should be spread. That's not how it should be done. I fully understand that but those people that did it are The violent extremist Wing that follows material that is it's all over the Hadith and There are people in every religious movement in the world that will choose What portions of Religious dogma and doctrine they're going to believe and they will not seek balance.

They're not concerned about balance this radical Religious Political system gives them the right to live out their fantasies to be the evil men that they are From a from a Christian perspective. These are unregenerate men Involved in false religion using false religion as the basis for allowing them to be as violent as they want to be.

That's what they're doing. And that's what they were saying and that's what their actions are. And let me guarantee you something if they read something like this, which I'm sure they have I'm sure this has been translated into Arabic and spread all around the Arabic Street.

This is the United States and come do it again. Do it again and why because secularists who are in charge of the government States? Don't get it and they can't get it. This can't. It's not a part of their worldview.

They don't get it. It's amazing, it's amazing and when I say this stuff's all through the all through the the materials I'm putting a big push on right now To finish Sahih al-Bukhari, it's huge. Man, I can let me tell you something I really wish that there was an electronic version of Sahih al-Bukhari where they took out all the repeated hadith.

I am so Tired of hearing the hadith about well, let me just throw a few off the top of my head for my ride this morning about how people in Medina thought they heard something at night that frightened everybody and Muhammad went out To go see what it was and while he was out there He found a horse and when he came back he was riding the horse and said there's nothing to be fearful but boy this horse is fast.

I have heard that hadith a Minimum a minimum over the past two days of a dozen times easily easily 12 times. That's the nature of the hadith is the same thing with a slight difference narrated by a different chain is Repeated over and over and over again.

And let me tell you something some of the stuff about how to sell a shape is. That's exciting. Did you know did you know that you should not sell us that you should not sell a sheep that has not recently been Milked let me tell you something.

This is important stuff. Of course, I've already gotten through the part about personal cleansing. And I'm gonna tell you something you read all the hadith. You're gonna know everything to know everything there is to know about Aisha's menstrual cycle.

And Numerous descriptions of the Prophet relieving himself and the ways that he did so oh, it's great I like I said, I read this stuff, so you don't have to that's I guess that's my job but Wow. Thousands of these hadith, but I've set a goal and I'm gonna get through all of them by by the end of the year even though that's many many many many many many many hours of of writing and And other things that I do to try to stay in shape so anyways.

But I have heard numerous numerous hadith over the past a couple of weeks that once again if you start with certain presuppositions, and you put certain hadith as controlling authorities over other hadith Would substantiate everything these people have been doing but then you could take others.

And if you elevate them an authority, then it would put a different context and others. This has been my problem all along. I understand That there are Muslims who condemn these actions more power to you.

But the problem is the sources from which you have to argue to make your arguments against these people simply aren't sufficient. They're not sufficient. They're not sufficiently consistent. They're not sufficient to answer the questions.

That's the problem. That is the problem so If you're as frustrated as I am looking at this stuff. Oh, it's just. But let's get let's get more frustrated while we're at it. I Had this one up for the last program, but I didn't get to it.

Scottish Grandparents, Gay Adoption, and Secular Totalitarianism

This is from actually from September 11th this is from the the Christian Institute over in the UK. A Couple who objected to their grandchildren being adopted by two gay men. Have been blocked from seeing their grandchildren for three years.

The elderly couple from Edinburgh Have spoken out in response to Scottish government plans to give grandparents more rights. The saga began in 2009 when social workers told the couple to drop their objection to gay adoption or never see their grandchildren again.

The Grandparents had previously cared for the children because their mother was a drug addict. But social workers decide that children would be better looked after by a gay couple. The grandparents objected because they wanted the children to be cared for by a heterosexual couple.

So that they would have a mum and a dad. Oh Wow. The council has since apologized for the way the matter was handled but is still blocking the grandparents from seeing the children. A Council spokesman said that at the time of the adoption.

It was made very clear to the family that there would be no direct Contact. They are only allowed to send birthday and Christmas cards. The council says it is acting in the best interests of the children.

The grandfather 64 has angina and the grandmother 49 has diabetes. The grandmother is worried that her husband may never see the children again Before he dies there you have Secular totalitarianism. You have People social workers who think that they have been endowed with the very powers of God himself and When they then embrace an ugly anti-christian worldview.

The results well are obvious. The the fact is once again a society must have clearly defined ethical and moral values when that society abandons those values or Radically alters those values. We know what the values were in Scotland for hundreds of years.

But now they've been abandoned. They've been changed radically. One side must predominate over the other. One side must predominate over the other. You this idea of Peaceful coexistence with utterly contradictory worldviews doesn't work.

Doesn't work and we're seeing it. We're seeing it. It's truly Amazing. I am thankful that Turretin fam Took the time to post something and by the way Oh, okay. Yeah, I'll be taking calls eight seven seven seven five three three three four one.

I've got Two more items to cover so it'll probably take me just a few minutes to do that. The great Turretin fan and I hope the other bloggers will realize I'm going to be a tad bit on the busy side. Well, of course, I've been a tad bit on the busy side, but Simply not even going to be posting links to the dividing line, even though we've done dividing lines from London before but I Just don't see this happening.

Not this time around. I mean every single day I'm either flying or speaking or debating or something and I just I just don't I hardly see a day in there when I have would have any shot whatsoever. Doing something so mostly I mean if something really major happens, you know, I mean y 'all do remember it was it was February of 2010 as I was going to London that time.

That's staying in the same hotel I'm gonna be staying in again. That the Eric and Kanner thing exploded or started to explode. It was that the fuse was lit with the recognition Ascending to me of documentation that Kanner had claimed to have debated Shabir Ali twice including in Nebraska.

And I'm pretty certain Shabir's never been to Nebraska either anyway. So, who knows something could happen. Maybe I could get something on my on my droid like I got some on my BlackBerry back then that would require Changing of plans and doing of a of a dividing line from London.

We will we will see but the Great Turreted fan has Posted an article About Steve Ray. I love this Steve Ray versus Thomas Aquinas on the proteve and gallium of James. In a recent post Steve Ray describes the proteve and gallium of James in this way this document was written in the early 2nd century and known and loved by the first Christians.

Of course, I would immediately say excuse me, but those weren't the first Late there, but you know when we talk about Steve Ray when it comes to facts and history and stuff. Like it's just so fluid. It's it's just yeah, just do what you want with it on the other hand Thomas Aquinas described the same work as apocryphal ravings and Of course, you also have the decree attributed to Pope Galatius that likewise condemned this particular material as well.

Which it's just so convenient when they forget that that one of their infallible popes condemned this stuff. Sure, it's the source of most of the Marian wackiness that they now celebrate. But hey. It's the infallible Church just because an infallible Pope condemned the source of what we eventually became infallible dogma.

Don't sweat the details. It's okay. You know just go over and read a few articles that called the confusion and you'll be right back into the middle of things. It's okay. You know you just embrace the tension.

It's good. Even the famous Mariologist Luigi Gambero. Luigi Gambero. I have been to Italy too. Except I ate at McDonald's right across the Milvian Bridge. I actually ate in it was horrible. I'm sorry.

I hate to tell you that oh Man, I mean oh No did not taste every place else. I had been McDonald's tastes like McDonald's not in Italy. But anyways Luigi Gambero who has never eaten at McDonald's. I would imagine if he's still alive I don't even know admits that quote its author must have been a non-jew or at most a Jew who lived outside of Palestine since He seems to possess a limited knowledge of Palestinian geography and Jewish customs.

I like a detergent fans summary in short. It is a work of lies. Whether those are pious lies or just apocryphal ravings as Aquinas judged one wonders. What motivates Rome's apologist to try to prop up Rome's dogma with such works?

Because that's where Rome's dogma came from of course is. The problem once again just one of the many illustrations of what happens when you really start pressing the The Roman Catholic apologists and their sources and you discover that yeah once again truth not a big thing.

A Gift from Dr. Sam Gipp and the King James Only Letter

Now we get fun stuff in the mail we really do and Today Rich even got hold of me and said there was something for you in in the p .o. box and it was. It was sent from a friend to churches ministries. Www .samgip .com.

Oh, yes, dr. Samuel C. Gip THD. From from Ohio and. And dr. Gibbs sent me a gift and I think it'd be very proper for me to acknowledge this gift and dr. Gibbs clear kindness in forwarding it to me. He sent me One of his coloring books now I'm not saying that he uses coloring books, but he's actually published a coloring book called the time when there was no Bible and It's a it's it's a nice coloring book now.

It's a fictional coloring book it is interesting. Sam Gip has information and no one else has for example. He says the first books in God's New Testament are called the Gospels. Matthew was written in 37 ad.

Wow, even knows the exact date. That's that's great. Mark was written in 57 ad so Mark didn't mark right go 20 years after Matthew. That's weird and Luke was written in 63 ad and John was written in 90 ad.

So we know exactly when all this stuff happened and of course then it starts talking about. You know, God had placed his New Testament Church in Antioch and was once again speaking to his people. But down in Alexandria Egypt some very bad men by the name of Philo and origin didn't believe the Bible.

So they were cutting parts out of as fast they could. And origin, of course is you know a couple centuries. Just love again Steve Ray Sam Gip they're all in the same mindset, okay, rock my nights radical Roman Catholics and same thing and They then they tried to get the Christians use their Bible instead of the right one from Antioch.

But the Christians were too smart and would have no part of it and there's someone walking along with the King James Bible there I guess anyways so he sent me a Coloring book and a crazy art 16 Crayon pack brand.

I mean, you know, I didn't bother to open. Did you check them? Yeah. Okay there they're brand new. Look at that. Oh, they're pretty and it has a nice little purple top to it so I have crayons and a coloring book from Sam Gip and Along with it came a letter yes, and Just like we posted the letter from Peter Ruckman from many years ago to once again illustrate the kindness and the and the the loving attitude and the scholarship of Our King James only friends our brothers.

Yes September 4th 2012 Addressed to me and the post office box. James. You look so lonely down there in your basement talking to your computer. So I thought I'd send along my newest book to give something more meaningful to occupy your time.

One that is more on your level of understanding. Maybe this will help you leave your error behind and gather up enough faith to actually believe God has a perfect book somewhere on this Planet, please.

Remember the two most important rules number one stay within the lines and number two Don't eat the crayons. Looking forward to the day when you turn from your error. Dr. Samuel C. Gip and it is signed now.

Go ahead. You pulled the microphone over. There is one other thing that you Left out. I did look at the return address on the envelope. You want to talk about error?

Okay, I hadn't looked at that. What about a doctor and mrs. Yeah, that's a home address. Oh. Not something you want to do. Well a friend of church's ministry has the same address. Oh. So in other words, yeah.

Well, he took a shot at my allegedly being in my basement when it's actually my office, which is not in my home. That's probably his base, but he's actually writing from his basement. Does happen sometimes isn't it?

So there you go now. That now Rich was a little offended by this. It was you know, and I know you know. My wife gets upset when people insult me and stuff like that. And this was meant obviously to be very very insulting just like when when Ruckman Sent me some of his books and and signed it, you know here Jimmy.

Here's some more evidence of my heresy and it was his book on black is beautiful a racist book and stuff like that. Um. But I'm not in the least bit insulted by this. I'm not I'm sitting here laughing.

Because I think it's funny. And the reason I think it's funny is not because you know. Get put out another video and I've said they're very nicely produced videos. They're just absolutely absent of any meaningful argumentation or factual history as we have demonstrated but I haven't respond last minute because there's there's almost nothing to respond to it.

Now. I've got a reason to respond to it now I'll I'll find some time to to respond to it and and You know also hold up and read this letter and put that out on on in YouTube land to just give him an idea that Brother Gip is just not quite that nice of a man.

Remember, this is a guy who even after the video? Came out from Ankerberg showing the great incident. Uh, he lost his voice where someone went. Um, that's the best that King James only guy's gonna even after the video came out Gip's like that one.

No, that's not it. They're still hiding. No, that wasn't it. And you know, I was sitting there and Dan Wallace was sitting there. Dan Wallace is sitting Uh very close to Sam Gippin back and Dan has confirmed that that's what it was and i've confirmed.

That's what it was. But you know these guys I am only insulted by people That I feel have any kind of integrity or honesty or ability to think. And that's why i'm not insulted by Sam Gip. I've never seen Sam Gip utilize Demonstrate the slightest capacity for reflective for self-reflective thought I never have.

Uh, we've we've played some of his anti-calvinism comments on here and his his eisegesis is absolutely incredible and We we've we know that when it comes to king james only issue facts are just play-doh in his hands.

So The man has absolutely no credibility. And has never demonstrated himself to be a person who can think so I'm, not insulted by people like that. I really don't I I just how I I will be insulted by someone that I credit with the ability to really think through things.

Okay, that that person I will I will give weight to their perspective and therefore they have the power to insult me. Sam Gip doesn't have the power to insult me because I just The man has no credibility.

He There's no weight behind what he says. Uh, but I do appreciate the crayons. I have a grandchild coming and so in a couple years, uh, you know, i'll be able to provide uh Ooh almost said it Almost used a a a gendered, uh pronoun there.

Uh, because I know what's coming. I almost did it. Oh, that was close. And I think summer's listening too. So that would really be bad. Uh That was close that was close but uh my coming grandchild Uh, i'm sure we'll uh appreciate these these crayons at some point in the future though.

I I doubt I will introduce My grandchild, uh to the uh the well, maybe when My grandchild is very very very young and hence doesn't care about what the grandchild is coloring on then we can use it up then and then get rid of it, but uh, anyway, so Thank you.

Dr. Gip for your your kindness and um I will take it that this is As much of a response as you can provide to the reputation of your previous videos that has already been posted uh on the uh On youtube, uh, it is about that that is about all they they have to offer.

Okay, 877 -753 -3341 is the phone number. Where are all the calls? Not a single thing. I'm out of stuff to say. I mean, I thought the sam gip thing would get lots of and we had a caller from london was gonna call back And hasn't called back yet.

So, um 877 -753 -3341 or 602 -973 -4602 because that's what they're gonna have to use over there, wouldn't they? Yeah, probably. Yeah area code 602 -973 -4602. Summer is saying life tough. Okay, uh life is tough.

Yes, I I realize that but not much longer. And I will be able to use appropriate gender distinctives Uh, hey, you got a break cute up in there you might as well give folks time to get on that phone and uh We had all sorts of calls last time.

Maybe we just used them all up. They're starting to ring 877 -753 -3341 Is the phone number for you to call this is gonna be the last shot you're gonna have uh till the 27th of september, so We will take a quick break right.

Hello, we Take a quick break. No. No. Yeah, cheer that up, man. Hey, it's just start taking the call so that means I have to keep talking uh. Let's take a break. Take a drink some water. Give the give the voice a break a second, you know.

And then we'll get to justin and to others right after this.

Common Grace and Prevenient Grace

What is dr. Norman geisler warning the christian community about in his book chosen but free? A new cult. Secularism. False prophecy. Scenarios. No, dr. Geisler is sounding the alarm about a system of beliefs commonly called calvinism.

He insists that this belief system is theologically inconsistent. Philosophically insufficient and morally repugnant. In his book the potter's freedom james white replies to dr Geisler, but the potter's freedom is much more than just a reply.

It is a defense of the very principles upon which the protestant reformation was founded. Indeed it is a defense of the very gospel itself in a style that both scholars and laymen alike can appreciate.

James white masterfully counters the evidence against so-called extreme calvinism. Defines what the reformed faith actually is and concludes that the gospel preached by the reformers Is the very one taught in the pages of scripture.

The potter's freedom. A defense of the reformation and a rebuttal to norman geisler's chosen. But free you'll find it in the reformed theology section of our bookstore. At a omen dot org this portion of the dividing line has been made possible by the phoenix reformed baptist church.

The apostle paul spoke of the importance of solemnly testifying of the gospel of the grace of God. The proclamation of God's truth is the most important element of his worship in his church. The elders and people of the phoenix reformed baptist church invite you to worship with them this coming Lord's Day.

The morning Bible study begins at 930 a .m. And the worship service is at 1045. Evening services are at 630 p .m. On Sunday, and the Wednesday night prayer meeting is at 7. The phoenix reformed baptist church is located at 3805 North 12th Street in Phoenix.

You can call for further information at 602 to 6. Grace. If you're unable to attend you can still participate with your computer and real audio at PR Bc .org where the ministry extends around the world through the archives of sermons and Bible study lessons available.

24 hours a day and welcome back to the dividing line. We have two callers on line. Oh, there's a third one ring and we're gonna take calls till the end of the hour. I did not Chew anything up. This is last program before the 27th so we're gonna get to as much as we can get to and let's start off Once we get our mouse all the way up there to Justin.

Hi Justin. Hi, dr. White. I really appreciate you taking the phone call. My question in the past I've heard you like that. They use the term perch heard you use the termical. I was just wondering if you could explain well common grace is just it's a commonly used term by reformed theologians to refer to the kindness that God exhibits to the non-elect.

It is not salvific grace it is not an attempt to Do something that God has not decreed to do and bring about salvation, but it is the source of all goodness. I mean if you if you believe in the total depravity of man, then it's God's common grace that Prompts men to Hear the law of God and to curb their behavior.

It's common grace that Drives men to Excel in anything in in life really is just the it's the kindness of God that's shown in causing his son to shine and his reign to fall upon the just and the unjust and and when he's particularly blessing of people granting to them peace and order and in their society and Then when he begins to withdraw that the results I think seen in many nations today, but the difference Between common and prevenient grace is that Prevenient grace is an attempt on God's part to move someone to a place where?

They then will make some kind of a decision for Christ. So it is an attempt while maintaining some kind of autonomy on the part of man. To bring about salvation common grace is not a salvific grace. It is a grace that is made available.

One might argue that it is made available through the merits of Christ in the sense that God is Just and righteous to even be gracious in that sense toward the unregenerate. But it's all for the sake of his people and his glory as well.

But the big difference is the one is an attempt at salvation. The other is not an attempt at salvation. It is an element of God's Bring glory to himself and a blessing of his people. I'd love you would say it well in the same way that there is salvific grace grace specifically intended and powerful to accomplish salvation in the same way there is redemptive love they are intimately connected with one another.

God's love brings about God's grace and in the same way common grace is a Descriptor of God's loving attitude toward all of creation. That balances not balances in the sense of yin and yang, but is what allows God to continue to pour forth the blessings that he gives to people.

I mean he gives tremendous blessings. You know, I can't help but for example watch athletes on television who have been given tremendous Athletic capacity and yet clearly they they do not thank God they do not see from whence that that comes and that their abilities are an example of common grace and that would be attached to that general sense of benevolence and love that is God's toward all people because if there wasn't that then he would bring Judgment to bear immediately, but again, and this is what I like about Robert Raymond's discussion of these things.

In light of the fact that God has a purpose in all that he is doing and he has a purpose in creation. He has a purpose in allowing creation to last as long as creation lasts as far as this particular phase of his intentions is concerned it all goes back to having a purpose in bringing about the glory of the triune God through the redemption of particular people in Christ Jesus, so Even the extension of that love of God to those that God does not intend to redeem you have to make the distinction between the kind of love that is self-giving in the sense of redemptive and that kind of love of God that is seen in the providential upholding of creation the giving to men of gifts the withholding of wrath even upon those Who are most deserving of it?

So I would say that common grace and the general love of God go hand-in-hand we Redeeming grace and the redemptive love of God again. They're they're part and parcel the same thing. All right. Thank you very much.

That's very helpful. Do you have time for one more question? I've got four folks online right now. So I'll pass is this a question that in the past you've said that you don't like to talk about so I'll pass.

Oh, well, that's even better. Okay. Thanks. You're welcome I think I just dodged an eschatology question there, but I'm glad that I did. Let's uh, let's go to where I'm gonna be heading in a few days and talk with Paul.

Hi Paul.

Hey, that's why I hate it. I'm doing just fine. Yeah, I hope I don't sound too incoherent. It's like 1 o 'clock in the morning.

Well, I'm trying to be awake at 1 o 'clock in the morning myself because my my clocks could be all messed up. So I'll probably be incoherent on Monday night during the debate to you get.

Well, I hope to see you when you come down there. Actually I'm going to shut the the the one you've got on Trinity Road I in like isn't that far for me? So I definitely hope to make that one.