Keep sharing good news without ads.
John Samson, author & pastor of KING’s CHURCH, PEORIA, AZ to discuss:
PART 2 of “The FIVE SOLAS: Standing Together, ALONE!”
Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.
Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.
It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. Now here's our host, Chris Arnton.
Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnton, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this fifth day of July 2017.
I'm so delighted to have back on the program John Sampson, who's an author and pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona. Today we are continuing a discussion we began very recently on the five solas, Standing Together Alone, which is a booklet that John has written, now in print and available by Solid Ground Christian Books.
That's solid-ground-books .com, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron, Pastor John Sampson.
It's great to be with you again, Chris. Thank you.
I thought it would have been blasphemous to have you on my program yesterday, you being a Brit, and yesterday being the great and wonderful holiday on which we commemorate the independence.
Of our nation. Yes, you shook off the tyranny of the British Empire. I remember that.
Yes, and John is that old. He does remember that. But John, kidding aside, I know that you do this every time you come on the program, but if you could let our listeners know about King's Church in Peoria, Arizona.
Yeah, we're a Bible-believing, started in a home, not a nice facility on a Sunday there, and they have the normal activities through the week, but delighted to be there.
So your church actually moved out of the home. Why do I keep hearing from people that you belong in a home?
Yes, yes, we try to keep that quiet.
And if anybody wants to look up more information about King's Church in Peoria, Arizona, go to kingschurchaz .com, kingschurchaz .com, and we'll be repeating that later on. And of course, you can look up other interviews we've had with John Sampson at ironsharpensironradio .com, ironsharpensironradio .com.
Look up in the archive, you can type in S-A-M, as in Michael, S-O-N, Sampson, just like the biblical figular, figular? Biblical figure without the P. And John has a phenomenal, mind-blowing testimony, actually, of how he was once a pastor in the Word of Faith Pentecostal movement, and not only a pastor, but even a talk show host on the Trinity Broadcasting Network, and he was drawn out of that and delivered from that by the grace and mercy of God after discovering the doctrines of sovereign grace, and we are so delighted that John has left that heresy behind him.
And in fact, we are both working on the possibility, it's not etched in stone yet, but we are working on the possibility of having Kosti Hinn on my program, the nephew of Benny Hinn, who is a Reformed pastor, and where is he pastoring, John?
In California. Yeah, and was he ever a part of the Word of Faith movement like his uncle, or was that just something that he was aware of in his family?
Well, he grew up very much as a Hinn, that's his last name, of course, but he functioned as an assistant to Benny, one of the catchers, if you can think of that as a biblical office. He was one of the catchers in the services.
Yeah, well, I'm looking forward to interviewing.
Him with you, God willing, if God opens up that door. I have contacted him and I'm awaiting a reply. But what we are discussing today isn't even completely removed from that because of the five things that the five solos of the Reformation stand for.
This booklet that you have written, first of all, before we even go into the contents, I notice that you've dedicated this booklet, the five solos standing together alone, to R .C. Sproul and Dr. James R. White of.
Alpha Omega Ministries. Tell us why you did that. Yeah, those two men under God were used very significantly. You talked about me coming out of that heretical movement, and it was Dr. Sproul who first came to Scottsdale, Arizona, not too far from me, impacted me greatly in the weekend, and it caused me to start studying and looking through the scriptures, realizing that he was exposing my shallow understanding, and he really helped significantly in that.
And also, Dr. James White, both with the theological precision that R .C. Sproul brought and then the actual exegesis that the going into the scripture in such detail that Dr. White was able to provide.
Between the two of them, they had a massive influence in my life, and James became a friend as well. He lives here in the Valley, too, but these two men really have impacted me, and I just wanted to say so in a public way.
Well, praise God, and a wonderful way to do it.
When you've got something that you've put into print here, and I thank you also for the wonderful personal autograph that you've put in the book with your comment here.
Oh, it's nice of you to say that. Thank you.
Thank you very much, and I'm going to announce our email address right now if anybody would like to join us. It's chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com. C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.
In fact, I might as well take a question from a listener in Ben Salem, Pennsylvania right now. We have Jenny in Ben Salem, Pennsylvania, who has several questions. First of all, she asks, you were a word of faith believer according to your testimony.
How long were you a word of faith believer? Did you pastor as a word of faith preacher? Was your family also believers in word of faith? Well, the only question that you haven't answered already today is how long.
I'm not sure off the top of my head how long you were in that movement. Yeah, I think very early on in.
My Christian life, that's really designated myself as. I was over in England at the time and was part of a local church in Somerset that could be described as that training and theological training with a gentleman called Harry Greenwood, who was really one of the princes or associate minister.
That was back in 1987. And then pastored a church in England, co-pastored with another young gentleman, young at the time. And now having come to the United States, started a church in 1993 here in the Phoenix Valley, and it was certainly coming on two decades, I was in the word of faith and pastoring and ministering from 1987 through to the year 2000.
As a word of faith minister. And she asks, was your family also believers in the word of faith?
Yeah, I'd say so. My mother kind of what was preaching and depending on what I was preaching, she was believing it and was significantly impacted by it too, but in a strange way also called himself Reformed.
But you get into that and you think, how can that be? How can that be? I don't know the answer to all of that, but he would be listening to Martin Lloyd-Jones and Kenneth Copeland, if you can imagine.
So yeah, very strange.
And what led you to minister here in the United States and why Arizona of all places? This is another question from Jenny in Ben Salem, Pennsylvania.
In the nine months I was with this gentleman called Harry Greenwood, I was his associate minister living in England, but we traveled about six months of the nine months outside of England to places like India, Australia, New Zealand, and the United States.
And each trip was a significant trip in that it wasn't just for a weekend, but for weeks, sometimes even a month at a time. And so one of the places we came to was the U .S. and it was in a trip over to Arizona that I was spending quite some time here and it just kind of felt like home.
But over time, there was this significant sense of being drawn here that this is unexplainable, except felt I needed to somehow move here and getting here was an issue because you can't just, believe it or not, get off a plane and start a church.
You have to have significant paperwork behind you and it was a two or three year process to do that. So it really was a determined effort to come based on this just strong desire and to be my home. And there's no other way to explain it other than that, really, because it's very hot right now, as you might know.
I think it's forecasted 113 for today and something like that. Well, I heard a song once that mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun. It's all true and they drink cups of hot tea no matter what the temperature.
I've got a cup of tea with me now and I go outside and you go into a bank that stopped serving coffee in the banks long ago. But I'm looking wistful as I go in there saying, have you got a hot drink in this weather?
I'm one of those mad dogs.
Yeah, I can hardly think of two more opposite places. I've never been to England, but the image I have in my mind of England and Arizona, the only other place that I could think of more different that would be perhaps Hawaii.
Where in England were you from? I'm sorry, I forgot.
I was hoping you'd remember. I forgot too. Place called Chester in England, which is about four or five miles from the border with Wales. And it's significant. I'll tell you a very quick story. The soccer team in Chester never been very good, but they were wanting to move to a new stadium for the new stadium.
And one third of the stadium would be inside the border with Wales. The team, if it's in Wales, well, only a third of the stadium. We will not. They had to come up with a plan because the supporters said they wouldn't show up between the two countries.
And so it's about 20 miles south east of Liverpool, which I'm sure everyone's heard of. And then Manchester is about 40 miles away. And each place has a different accent, believe it or not, 20 miles and 40 miles.
And Chester has its own accent. And it was the edge of the city back then. It's obviously grown beyond that now. But it takes about 45 minutes to walk around this wall that was built in the first century by the Romans.
Not all of it.
And now she finally gets into the heart of the matter of your book. She says this is Benny again, Benny, Jenny in Penn, Salem, Pennsylvania, says, I know that the five solas are the essential doctrines of faith, especially in regard to salvation, that were some of the distinctives of the Protestant Reformation of the 16th century.
However, I was surprised to learn that the reformers essentially identified three solas, scripture over tradition, faith over works and grace over merit. Can you give us a brief history on how the five solas were developed over time?
Yeah, that's interesting. We actually touched on that the last time that the five solas were actually present apart from one another in the writings of the reformers, but they weren't joined together as a unit of five until a 20th century Christian had put them that way in print.
That's correct. And it's kind of a surprise to me that that was the case, but certainly each of those were mentioned, but no one kind of put them together in that way that we do now of the five solas.
But you could go back to Martin Luther at the Diet of Worms, this town in Germany in 1521, where he made his statement, unless I'm convinced by sacred scripture, I will not recant my conscience is held captive to the word of God.
And he basically took his stand there and you could say that scripture alone being the standard came out of Luther's mouth at that point. Whether it was articulated as sola scriptura straight away, hard to really pinpoint, but certainly he was instrumental in that.
And if we start with scripture as being the final authority, the sole infallible church, it's out from that, that the other doctrines can be found. When we look to scripture, we see that it teaches sola fide, which is faith alone by faith alone, apart from works, we have a peace with God, justification, the declaration of God, that we're right in his sight.
So it's out from who speaks for God that we then determine that scripture alone is God breathed, has the weight behind the human conscience, rather than a pope or you or me, all of us, as the Bible says, let God be true and every man be a liar.
It's God who's spoken in his word and out from that the other essential doctrines. Yes. And that is what.
Separates the true religion, the true gospel, the true Christianity of the reformation in contrast to Rome, the one word alone, because the church of Rome has always believed that faith was essential, that grace is essential, that Christ is essential, that the scriptures are essential.
And of course they claim they are glorifying God, but the alone part just radically, that one word just radically transforms what would have other been true Christianity into an imposter.
True, and many don't understand exactly what you fall in. It's vital people grasp that because what they've decreed as to be, and they're surprised when they come across this is necessary, and they think, whoa, Rome's changed, haven't they?
Grace is necessary. I thought they thought justification, not grace. No, they've always, as you've rightly said, insisted on the necessity of the essential in the human merit, so it's not grace alone.
They cannot sing amazing grace, how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me and fully understand it as the Bible would teach it as grace alone. Ironically, they are singing that in the.
Catholic Church now. They have been, I think, ever since Vatican II or so. It is quite strange for them to be singing that because they really don't understand what that song is about, what.
That hymn is about. Yeah, that's true. Not only of the Roman Catholics but of many Protestants as well on the East Coast. Here in the States that changed, revised the words of the song so that it was not that saved a wretch like me, but they changed it to saved a person like me.
Yeah, and Phil Driscoll changed it to someone like me. It really was like a kick in the stomach.
Oh, really? Really, really. No, we were wretches, but the message of the Bible is that Christ died for the ungodly, that justificates for the ungodly. It's not as if God has to wait until we're godly, and then he says, I see.
I can analyze this individual. Now they're godly. I can declare them godly. No, it's because of Christ, Christ alone on the basis of his person, his work for us. On that basis, he can declare us right in his sight because our faith in him allows Christ to be all that he is for us, and that's the God's life.
He died for us an atoning death. Sins that were transferred to Christ, he literally bore them. Isaiah says he was wounded for our transgressions. He was bruised for our iniquities. The chastisement, the punishment we deserved was upon him, and by his stripes we were healed.
It literally happened, and his righteousness is transferred to us, and on the basis of our faith in him, all that Christ is. Amen. Then finally, Jenny from.
Ben Salem, Pennsylvania. I think she's trying to get my job here as host of the Iron Shards. She says, there have been some suggestions from Anglican bishops to add two more solos to the list. Sola Ecclesia and Sola Caritas.
Are you aware of this, and are these a viable and essential necessity to add? Well, it seems that Sola Ecclesia would totally destroy the meaning of the other solos, the church alone, and I'm actually surprised.
I'm not 100 sure that Jenny's accurate or her sources are accurate, but it would seem strange that a non-Roman Catholic church would want to add Sola Ecclesia to the list, and I'm not sure what Sola Caritas.
Means. I'm going to plead ignorance rather than attempt an answer where I'm not really sure. I'd need to have access to where that's been said officially by that church to be able to comment.
On it. Well, thanks a lot, Jenny. Keep listening to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and spreading the word about it in Ben Salem, Pennsylvania and beyond. Your questions are always a wonderful addition to the Iron Sharpens Iron program, and there is some information backing up Jenny's claim here from an Anglican website that there is a movement to reconciling evangelical and Anglo-Catholic perspectives, so there was something Romish.
Behind this. Anyway... But I'd agree with you if you understand Sola Scriptura, then it negates Sola Ecclesia, the church alone, understanding from God as to how we are to view things, belief. We don't go to scripture alone.
We go to the church to tell us what scripture means, and that would negate at least the Protestant understanding of Sola. We don't rightly interpret them. We don't have the right to misinterpret them, but we are responsible to rightly divide the word of truth.
Timothy 3 says to make you wise for salvation through faith in Jesus Christ, and because of message of scripture on salvation, we don't need to go to anyone else but scripture or anything else, any other organization, to know what God wants us to believe concerning the message of salvation.
So anything that would negate that clear, declarative message of the Bible is something we should avoid rather than run to.
And I found out that Sola Caritas means love alone, so that can be problematic when you start determining a person, requiring that a person has love before they are justified, because that just.
Gets in the whole, that really muddies the waters of the gospel. And people can misapply that so easily, because what is love? Love means to me that this, that, that, and the other, and then another one will say it means this.
And I was reading Galatians just recently, and just struck by the fact, hadn't really noticed it before, so incensed about the false gospel that the Judaizers were bringing into that Galatian community, that he threatened them and anyone else, including himself, with the anathema of God, if they adjust the gospel or preach a different one.
And I was reading that Galatian recently, and noticed that right at the end, it's in that exact book that he says, the fruit of the Spirit is love. And you think, well, what he's just done in the first couple of chapters isn't loving, right?
Not impulsive, and not in the Holy Spirit's view. The same Holy Spirit that inspired chapters one and two inspired chapter five that speak of the fruit of the Spirit being love. And it's loving to tell people the truth of the gospel, and to stand for it, and to say, you believe something else, and you're under God's anathema.
That's loving, and not everybody will accept that.
We have a first-time questioner, Gordy from Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania. And Gordy, I'm just enlarging the font on his question, because it's very tiny. Secondly, which of the five solos do you think is most resisted within the church at large?
Secondly, which do you think is more contentious within the church at large, the five solos or the five points of Calvinism, and why? Lastly, based on your experience within charismatic circles, what approach do you recommend for confronting the doctrinal errors associated with the movement, meaning the charismatic movement?
Very interesting three-part question, or three questions. The first being, which of the five solos do you think is most resisted within the church at large? Well, I know the Church of Rome most clearly resists Sola Scriptura more vociferously, because they are more prone to try to cloud the real meanings of the other solos.
But the Sola Scriptura, in my experience, having arranged debates with Roman Catholics since 1995, that one, of course, Sola Fide would be a second one, but they tend to be—it depends on what Catholic you're talking to.
Some Catholic might want to claim Sola Fide, but cloud the meaning of it. But certainly, Sola Scriptura, they would all be opposed to. If you could comment on your experience, John.
Yeah, I think I find that is true. I think on the Protestant side, it also would be the case that the answer would be, it depends on who you talk to. If you find out about the person, what kind of church background they have, you can normally—not always, but normally—understand where they're coming from and where the Scripture needs to be applied, whether it's to them, to me, all of us.
We need to apply Scripture to us and those in the Protestant realm who are influenced by anything other than the Bible. Two other things for recognition as to how to approach ministry, how to do counseling.
There's resistance to anyone who's just going to have a Bible in front of them and counsel in that sense. Oh no, we need to know what the world says and get our training from the world. Excuse me, 2 Timothy 3, 16 and 17 describes anything that will be involved in Christian ministry.
Paul is telling Timothy, whether it's counseling, preaching, teaching, business, people you need to talk to, people with marriage issues, relationship issues in many, many ways. I think in the charismatic realm, there's a lack of understanding of what we have in the Scripture that we certainly need something else according to them.
We've got the Bible, but we need God to speak to us. Ask God to speak to you. And what they mean by that is outside of the Bible. And I love a quote, Steve Lawson, I put it in the new book about, if you want to hear a fresh word from God, just buy yourself a new Bible.
I like that.
Then read it out loud, I think is the second part.
Just get yourself a new Bible and you've got a fresh word there. It's true, it's the real temptation that was thrown at Adam and Eve in the garden. Has God said it? The first question, as we know, the first question in the entire universe.
And it was a question that was really a less than subtle attack on the Word of God. You don't have God's Word or He's holding out on you, you need something else other than God's Word. Did God really say, as one translation puts it, well, God has spoken and He's spoken clearly.
And anytime we go away from the scripture or say we need something else or something more, I believe it's a quick way to deception. So strange answer to say it depends on who you talk to. A Methodist might answer that differently from a Lutheran, might be very different from someone who's a Presbyterian and a blind spot to come under the sound of God's Word and adapt and change where we see what we believe and what we practice.
It really does depend on who it is we're talking to, I think. Right, and then of course you have.
The ecumenical movement turning out Protestants or so-called Protestants and evangelicals who would say we should just drop the solos, I mean, should drop the solos altogether and just say that we affirm the need for faith and grace and Christ and the Bible and we need to glorify God.
But they would want to extend an olive branch to the Church of Rome by removing the solos. And they have already, and it's been going on for over a decade and longer where you'll have evangelical ministries that have been around for a long time and used to have as a mission statement something very close to the five solos and then they've removed the words alone off of them in order to be more comfortable for Roman Catholics to either physically join as members of these parachurch groups or support them with their money.
But that's a shame. It's pretty sad. But anyway, we have to go to break right now and we will return to Gordy's other questions. He has two more questions that we haven't got to that I read to you already.
And if anybody else would like to join us, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com. Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA.
Don't go away, we'll be right back after these messages with more of John Sampson. One sure way all Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners can help keep my show on the air is to support my advertisers. I know you all use batteries every day.
So I'm urging you all from now on to exclusively use battery depot .com for all your battery needs at battery depot .com. They're changing the status quo. They're flipping the script. They're sticking it to the man.
In other words, they'd like to change the battery industry for good by providing an extensive inventory of top of the line batteries that are uniformly new, dependable and affordable. Ordering from battery depot .com ensures you'll always get fresh out of the box batteries you can count on to work properly at competitive prices.
Whether you need batteries for cordless phones, cell phones, radios, PCs, laptops, tablets, baby monitors, hearing aids, smoke detectors, credit card readers, digital cameras, electronic cigarettes, gps's, mp3 players, watches or nearly anything else you own that needs batteries.
Go to battery depot .com. Next day shipping available. All products protected by 30 day guarantees and six month warranties. Call 866 -403 -3768. That's 866 -403 -3768 or go to battery depot .com. That's battery depot .com.
Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read. He who never quotes will never be quoted. He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves he has no brains of his own.
You need to read. Solid Ground Christian Books is a.
Publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart. The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and future and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.
Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God-centered, Christ-exalting books for all ages. We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid-ground-books .com. That's solid-ground-books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past to present you can unearth from Solid Ground.
Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Tired of box store. Christianity,.
Of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert? Do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship? And how about the preaching? Perhaps you've begun to think that in-depth biblical exposition has vanished from Long Island.
Well, there's good news. Wedding River Baptist Church exists to provide believers with a meaningful and reverent worship experience featuring the systematic exposition of God's Word. And this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you.
Call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service times. 631 -929 -3512 or check out their website at wrbc .us. That's wrbc .us.
I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries. The New American Standard Bible is perfect for daily reading or in-depth study. Used by pastors, scholars, and everyday readers, the NASV is widely embraced and trusted as a literal and readable Bible translation.
The NASV offers clarity and readability while maintaining high accuracy to the original languages which the NASV is known for. The NASV is available in many editions like a topical reference Bible. Researched and prepared by biblical scholars devoted to accuracy, the new topical reference Bible includes contemporary topics relevant to today's issues.
From compact to giant print Bibles, find an NASV that fits your needs very affordably at nasbible .com. Whichever edition you choose, trust, discover, and enjoy the NASV for yourself today. Go to nasbible .com.
That's nasbible .com.
I'm Pastor Bill Shishko inviting you to tune into A Visit to the Pastors Study every Saturday from 12 noon to 1 pm Eastern Time on WLIE Radio. Www .wlie540am .com. We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you and we invite you to visit the Pastors Study by calling in with your questions.
Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull. Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for a visit to the Pastors Study because everyone needs a pastor.
Have you been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron Radio? We remain on the air because of our faithful sponsors and because of listeners like you. There are four ways you can help. First, do you know potential sponsors who may wish to advertise their goods or services on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio?
Second, whenever possible, purchase the products or use the services that our sponsors advertise and then let them know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Thirdly, you can also donate to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio by going to our website at ironsharpensironradio .com and click support at the top of the page.
But most importantly, keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in your prayers. We hope that Iron Sharpens Iron Radio blesses.
You for many years to come. Welcome back. This is Chris Arns and if you just tuned us in today, our guest for the full two hours with about 90 minutes to go is John Sampson. He's an author and pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona.
We are continuing a discussion we began recently on Iron Sharpens Iron on the five solas, Standing Together Alone, which is a new booklet that Pastor John Sampson has written and which is published by solid-ground-books .com.
That's for pastors and deacons out there, those that have the authority to order things for your church tract rack. This is a booklet that could easily fit in a tract rack, especially if it's one large enough to have the Ultimate Questions booklet, which is a very famous booklet amongst Christians spanning denominational lines.
I would urge you to buy these in bulk, especially because of the fact that it's the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation and it's easy to hand these out and inexpensive enough to hand out in large numbers to inform people, not only your own congregations, but visitors as to what is so important about the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation.
So go to solid-ground-books .com and order this booklet, and please try to order it in bulk. Even if you're not an authority in your church, order them for yourself in bulk so you can hand them out like tracts to individuals.
It's a really well-summarized work addressing the five solos of the Reformation. Our email address, if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, c-h-r-i-s-a-r-n-z-e-n at gmail .com, and please at least give us your first name, your city and state and country of residence if you live outside the USA.
And Gordy in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania also asked, which do you think is more contentious within the church at large, the five solos or the five points of Calvinism? And I would say that the five points of Calvinism are more contentious because not only have you set apart yourself from the rest of the religious world and from Christendom with being Protestant, but this even further separates you by being uniquely Calvinistic and attributing a hundred percent of the praise, honor, and glory and thanksgiving to God for your salvation.
But if you could comment as well, Pastor John.
Yeah, I would agree. I would echo what you've just said of religion, but the doctrines of grace take you further into biblical truth and designations and distinctions that need to be understood to have a true aspect.
It's very misunderstood in the Protestant world. Properly understood, the reformers were preaching and teaching what we would call monogism, one power, one party working to effect regeneration. And that was understood in the grace alone teaching that our salvation rests solely alone, which is where many in the Protestant world now are.
They would say, well, I'm saved by grace alone, but they believe that their human action is what caused them to be saved. Whereas properly understood, grace alone encompasses the idea that even the faith is because of God's grace to us in a microcosm form.
All of the doctrines are found in that expression of grace alone, but not everybody understands that, and that's a contention in our own day.
And then lastly, Gordy from Mechanicsburg asks, based on your experience within the charismatic circles, what approach do you recommend for confronting the doctrinal errors associated with the movement?
And that actually does tie in. It might be unexpected that it would tie in for many folks, but I think, and I believe you have asserted this on previous interviews, that the charismatic movement, just as the Church of Rome, but perhaps for different reasons, really denies Sola Scriptura, because it is not sufficient in the minds of many charismatics, especially the more extreme versions of them, like the Word of Faith movement.
It can seem to be, you know, how would you go about, I think if you can sit them down and say, let's open our Bibles and have a discussion, that's a lot further than most people get in that kind of a discussion.
But if we look to the Scripture, it making claims on itself that certainly, I don't know many charismatics who have made the same claim for themselves. They say that God spoke to them, they say it over and over, the Lord told me this, the Lord said this, I was having a dream and the Lord showed me this, and all of that.
But very few, none of them put it on that level. But that's exactly the point. It isn't on that.
Level. Yeah, and if they were consistent, if they were logically consistent, they would,.
Though, say it's the 67th book of the calendar. Yeah, exactly. And if we start with that as the premise, can we then sit that person down and say, so are you claiming that what you felt between your ears, your thoughts, are on the level of Scripture?
And very few would say yes. And if they do say no, then explore that and, I would say, open up the Scriptures on the subject and go there. And I love to go into churches and say a charismatic element within them and the pastor says, look, we need to really bring some soundness here.
And just walk people through the Scriptures. Let them see for themselves the value of Scripture, the authority of Scripture. And when they see it, the Bible in that light, they know that anything else is, and you just go down that line and say, now, is it authoritative at all?
Where are you getting this authority to say, you know for certain that God, it's God speaking to us and it gives us that view of Scripture. Quoted a passage in the book of Exodus and said, have you not read what was said to you by God?
You read of this in Matthew 22, 31, and without getting into all of the details there, he's speaking to people alive in his day, which happen to be the Sadducees, and it's many generations after the book of Exodus was written, and to those people, in just so many words, he was saying, when you read a passage in Exodus, though it's written centuries before and said to a completely different group of people of a different age, when you're doing that, God is speaking to you.
That's Jesus' view of the Scripture. And so he likewise didn't point to anything else, but saying goodbye to Timothy in his letter to Timothy in 2 Timothy, it was not in any way pointing him to Peter, to some other authority.
Sir Timothy is given by inspiration of God, by God himself, and it's all you will need for your life and ministry. And that's just similar to what he did with the Ephesian elders that met in Miletus in Acts chapter 20.
Now I commend you to God. I'm going, you won't see my face again. I'm going. I'm not giving you Peter's cell phone number. I'm out of here. There's Pete's cell phone number. There's his email. Any other question, talk to him.
No. Now I commend you to God, which is able to build you up and give you the inheritance among all those who are satisfied. I'm about to leave. I'm leaving you with the Scripture, even though savage wolves are going to come.
They're going to preach something else. You don't need Brother Peter as the authority. And start there. Work through that. And that's something I wanted to make clear. You mentioned the booklet, and I thought it was a book, 31 pages.
And it would have been a lot easier to make it 90 pages and 100 pages. But the problem I was having would be that there are some terrific books out there on the solas, the five solas, and I'd give them to people, and three or four weeks later, say, how'd you get on?
Did it help? And people are not used to reading books.
Like they once were. Oh, you mean the thing I use as a doorstop? I haven't looked at that.
Exactly. I've given the books away, and I think, yeah, I'm just waiting for the phone call when they tell me that changed my life. And it doesn't come because they haven't read it. And so I thought, is there anything out there that's brief enough, and yet simplifies the message that we need to communicate, but without distorting it?
I couldn't find anything that I could put that in their hands, and so that's why I went about the task. And the hardest thing was making it small. It had been so easy to make it 100 pages, and I thought, no, let's pray and let's ask God, can we hone this down to say the essential things people need to know so that they could read this entire book, booklet, whatever we call it, in less than an hour?
That's what I set out to do, and I'm really thrilled that it's the size. It is just 31 pages, and as you say, a booklet that you can hand to people. I've just ordered in the last week or so 100, because I want to just put them in the hands of people, people I know at the bank, people I know who cut my hair.
It's just something that I think it's like a track, but it takes them into the heart of the Christian faith and why we believe what we believe, why these doctrines are so important, rather than just.
Something of historical... And before we go to our next question, the last question that we already addressed from Gordy in Mechanicsburg about the charismatic movement, wouldn't you say that something to challenge your average charismatic on might be the fact, especially when we're talking about the Pentecostal denominations, which seem to be universal in their agreement that speaking in tongues is the sign of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and the...
It's not a sign, it's the sign. And what I say to my Pentecostal friends that agree with that, I say, how can something so important as the baptism of the Holy Spirit have as its sign, have as the sign something that could be very, very easily faked even by a child?
How could you have people who can easily produce a counterfeit tongue, how could that be a sign unless people who speak various different languages are listening to these people and can understand the gospel?
That's the only way that it makes it a sign. If it's just something that somebody babbling incoherent words or non-words sounds is a better way of describing it. I'm not trying to be offensive to those of you who are my charismatic brethren, and I do have a lot of brothers and sisters in Christ who are charismatic, and even charismatic Calvinists that I know, but I don't understand how that could be considered a sign.
That's a very, very good.
Point, and people in false religions, many of them are able to quote-unquote speak in tongues. Mormons? Yeah. And other false religions? All kinds of Eastern religions in India are known to speak in tongues, and the reason I have come to my understanding and have resisted now baptism in the Spirit understanding that I once had and articulated, sadly, is it goes against everything I read in the New Testament now.
It's as if my eyes are open because what happened at Pentecost and the giving of the Holy Spirit was the uniting every kind of race to Gentiles. They were there in Jerusalem, people from the known world, the day of Pentecost, but there was a uniting work, and that was really what happened.
I've been preaching through the book of Ephesians. It's kind of message number 41 or 42, speaking through the book, but the whole message here in Gentiles, the Holy Spirit's work is to show our unity in Christ, and I mention that because the understanding I had led to a two-tier form of Christianity.
Those who are Christians but don't have the baptism in the Spirit or speak in tongues, and those that do, and as sad as it may seem, there were those down on anyone who didn't speak in tongues and said, well, you can't get anything from that guy.
He doesn't speak in tongues. He doesn't, he's not filled with the Spirit. Billy Graham can't receive anything from him. He doesn't speak in tongues. R .C. Sproul doesn't speak in tongues, and there was this whole section of the body of Christ that were lower.
The empowering of the Spirit would be used, and it led to the exact opposite of what the Holy Spirit's work is, and you read the Scripture. It says, by one Spirit, we've all been baptized into the Holy Spirit, and so to fake the sign, if that is the sign, and the entire message of the New Testament, which is the Holy Spirit makes us all one.
There were two tiers, Jew and Gentile. That's all gone now. You think now that there's still two? No. Every Christian has received the Holy Spirit, and he's a person. He's not, you don't get half. You receive the Holy Spirit.
The one who comes lives in the heart of every true believer, and Romans 8 verse 9 makes that very clear. He who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong. The two things I think that it would be paramount to say.
Yeah, and some of you might be surprised about what I said about Mormons and tongues. I don't know how common speaking in tongues amongst Mormons is today, but the seventh article of faith in the Mormon Church says, we believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
Both males and females can receive spiritual gifts. They are an important component in both the basic beliefs and daily living of Mormons. But anyway, thank you very much Gordy, and you as a first-time questioner have won a free New American Standard Bible, compliments of the publishers of the NASB.
And we're going to be going to a break right now, and when we return, I just want to read a brief word of encouragement from Gordy in Mechanicsburg that he sent to me. Gordy is not a first-time listener, but a first-time questioner.
He's apparently been listening to the program for quite some time. But when we return from the break, we will start with that brief word of encouragement from Gordy. If anybody else would like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.
Chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away, we'll be right back after these messages. Hi, I'm Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, here to tell you about an exciting offer from World Magazine, my trusted source for news from a Christian perspective.
Try World at no charge for 90 days and get a free copy of R .C. Sproul's book, Relationship Between Church and State. I rely on World because I trust the reporting. I gain insight from the analysis, and World provides clarity to the news stories that really matter.
I believe you'll also find World to be an invaluable resource to better understand critical topics with a depth that's simply not found in other media outlets. Armed with this coverage, World can help you to be a voice of wisdom in your family and your community.
This trial includes bi-weekly issues of World Magazine, on-scene reporting from World Radio, and the fully shareable content of World Digital. Simply visit wmg .org forward slash iron sharpens to get your World trial and Dr. Sproul's book all free.
No obligation with no credit card required. Visit World News Group at wmg .org forward slash iron sharpens today. Thriving Financial is not your.
Financial services provider. As a membership organization, we help Christians be wise with money and live generously every day. And for the fourth year in a row, we were named one of the world's most ethical companies by the Ethisphere Institute, a leading international think tank dedicated to the creation, advancement, and sharing of best practices in business ethics.
Contact me, Mike Gallagher, Financial Consultant at 717 -254 -6433. Again, 717 -254 -6433 to learn more about the Thrivant Difference.
Faith, finances, and generosity. That's the Thrivant Story.
Chef Exclusive Catering is in South Central Pennsylvania. Chef Exclusive's goal is to provide a dining experience that is sure to please any palate. Chef Damian White of Chef Exclusive is a graduate of the renowned Johnson and Wales University with a degree in Culinary Arts and Applied Science.
Chef Exclusive Catering's event center is newly designed with elegance and style and is available for small office gatherings, bridal showers, engagement parties, and rehearsal dinners. Critics and guests alike acknowledge Chef Exclusive's commitment to exceeding even the highest expectations.
I know of their quality firsthand since Chef Exclusive catered by most recent Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Pastor's Luncheon. For details, call 717 -388 -3000. That's 717 -388 -3000. Or visit.
Chefexclusive .com. That's chefexclusive .com. Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting you to tune in to a visit to the Pastor's Study every Saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m. Eastern Time on WLIE Radio, www .wlie540am .com.
We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you, and we invite you to visit the Pastor's Study by calling in with your questions. Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull. Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for a visit to the Pastor's Study, because everyone needs a pastor.
Every day at thousands.
Of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions, coffee shops, and local hangouts, Long Island Youth for Christ staff and volunteers meet with young people who need Jesus. We are rural and urban, and we are always about the message of Jesus.
Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on Long Island, New York by engaging young people in the lifelong journey of following Christ. Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959.
We have a world-class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to youths in need all over the country and around the world. Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future.
Volunteer, donate, pray, or all of the above. For details, call Long Island Youth for Christ at 631 -385 -8333, that's 631 -385 -8333, or visit liyfc .org, that's liyfc .org. Linbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Linbrook,.
Long Island, is teaching God's timeless truths in the 21st century. Our church is far more than.
A Sunday worship service. It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant. It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement.
It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people in healing. We're a diverse family of all ages, enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus.
Christ in fellowship, play, and together. Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman, and I invite you to come and join us here at Linbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can be. Call Linbrook Baptist.
At 516 -599 -9402, that's 516 -599 -9402, or visit linbrookbaptist .org, that's linbrookbaptist .org.
Tired of box store Christianity, of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert? Do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship? And how about the preaching?
Perhaps you've begun to think that in-depth biblical exposition has vanished from Long Island. Well, there's good news. Wedding River Baptist Church exists to provide believers with a meaningful and reverent worship experience featuring the systematic exposition of God's Word, and this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you.
Call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service times, 631 -929 -3512, or check out their website at wrbc .us, that's wrbc .us.
I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries. The New American Standard Bible is perfect for daily reading or in-depth study. Used by pastors, scholars, and everyday readers, the NASB is widely embraced and trusted as a literal and readable Bible translation.
The NASB offers clarity and readability while maintaining high accuracy to the original languages which the NASB is known for. The NASB is available in many editions like a topical reference Bible. Researched and prepared by biblical scholars devoted to accuracy, the new topical reference Bible includes contemporary topics relevant to today's issues.
From compact to giant print Bibles, find an NASB that fits your needs very affordably at nasbible .com. Whichever edition you choose, trust, discover, and enjoy the NASB for yourself today. Go to nasbible .com, that's nasbible .com.
Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read. He who never quotes will never be quoted. He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.
You need to read. Solid Ground Christian.
Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart. The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.
Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God-centered, Christ-exalting books for all ages. We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid-ground-books .com. That's solid-ground-books .com, and see what priceless literary gems from the past to present you can unearth from Solid Ground.
Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Welcome back, this is Chris Arns,.
And if you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours, with a little less than an hour to go, is John Sampson. In fact, he was the voice of Charles Haddon Spurgeon that you just heard in that ad for Solid Ground Christian Books, and we are discussing The Five Solas, Standing Together Alone, a topic that we had addressed a couple of weeks ago, I believe, and that was before the booklet of the same title was in print, and now it is in print through solid-ground-books .com, solid-ground-books .com, that's Solid Ground Christian Books.
And before we return to the discussion on The Five Solas, I have some important announcements to make. This August, from the 3rd through the 5th, the Fellowship Conference New England is being held at the Deering Center Community Church in Portland, Maine, and I am planning to be there, God willing, and I hope you join me there.
Guests, or should I say speakers, include Don Curran, who is our guest tomorrow on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Don Curran is not only the founder of Don Curran Ministries, but he's also the Eastern European Coordinator with HeartCry Missionary Society, which is the organization founded by Paul Washer.
Make sure you mark your calendar for tomorrow, or your alarm for tomorrow, so you can listen to Don Curran's interview with us on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, 4 to 6 p .m. Eastern Time tomorrow. That's Thursday, the 6th of July.
Also speaking at the Fellowship Conference New England is my friend Pastor Mac Tomlinson, who is an author and pastor of the Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas, and I ask of your prayers once again for my oldest brother John, who is in his early 70s, experiencing a critical condition, emphysema, and he has been stubborn and not willing to visit Pastor Mac Tomlinson, who is only 10 minutes away from him in Texas.
So I pray that the Lord softens my brother's heart and saves his soul and brings a meeting about between him and Pastor Mac Tomlinson in Denton, Texas. Also speaking at the Fellowship Conference New England is Pastor Jesse Barrington of Grace Life Church in Dallas, Texas, which is the sister church of Grace Life Church in Lake City, Florida, whose radio station airs Iron Sharpens Iron Radio every day in its pre-recorded form.
And last but not least, Pastor Nate Pikowitz, who is the pastor of Harvest Bible Church in Gilmanton Ironworks, New Hampshire, and he is the author of Reviving New England. We just recently interviewed Pastor Nate on that book.
If you'd like to register for this conference, go to fellowshipconferencenewengland .com. That's fellowshipconferencenewengland .com. And then in November from the 17th through the 18th, the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals is running their Quaker Town Conference on Reform Theology.
I intend to be there as well with an exhibitor's booth for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. This is being held at the Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Quaker Town, Pennsylvania. The theme is For Still Our Ancient Foe, a line from Martin Luther's hymn A Mighty Fortress.
Speakers include Kent Hughes, Peter Jones, Tom Nettles, Dennis Cahill, and Scott Oliphant. If you'd like to register for the Quaker Town Conference on Reform Theology, go to alliancenet .org. Alliancenet .org.
Click on events and then click on Quaker Town Conference on Reform Theology. And then we have coming up in January from the 17th through the 20th, the G3 Conference. It returns to Atlanta, Georgia, on the theme Knowing God, a Biblical Understanding of Discipleship.
January 17th is exclusively a Spanish edition of the G3 Conference. And then from the 18th through the 20th, we have the English version of the conference featuring Paul Washer, Stephen Lawson, Voti Baucom, H .B. Charles Jr., Tim Challies, Josh Bice, Dr. James R. White, Tom Askell, Anthony Mathenia, Michael Kruger, David Miller, Paul Tripp, Todd Friel, Derek Thomas, and Martha Peace.
If you would like to register for the G3 Conference 2018, go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com. And if you register or contact any of these organizations running any of these events, please let them know that you found out about them through Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
That would mean a lot to us. Last but not least, I have to remind you that Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is in urgent need of finances. If you could find it within your heart and within your checking account to help us with a check of any amount.
That actually rhymed and I didn't intend it to. But the website is ironsharpensironradio .com and click on support. And then you'll find the address where you can mail a check made out to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
And please never, ever, ever, ever take money out of the collection plate of your church. I don't mean that literally, but never siphon money out of your own regular giving to your church in order to pay or to give to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
I would never want to hear or discover that that was being done. And please never take food off of your own family's dinner table if you are struggling to make ends meet. But if you are blessed above and beyond your ability to do both of those things, because those two things are commands of God.
Sponsoring or helping Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is not a command of God. But if you love the program, if it benefits you, if you have it as a part of your regular daily life, then please consider giving to us if you can, a gift of any amount.
In fact, we thank from the bottom of our hearts all of you who have already begun giving regularly to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. That means more to me than I can describe in the English language. If you want to advertise with us, send us an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.
And now if you'd like to also send us a question for John Sampson, use that same email address chrisarnsen at gmail .com. And before I go to another question for John Sampson, Gordy in Mechanicsburg sent me a very encouraging note.
It's so encouraging to me that it's one of those things where I'm wondering if people are going to think that I'm bragging about myself by reading it. But I'll worry about that later. Gordy in Mechanicsburg says, Hi Chris, just wanted to pass on a word of encouragement.
I've been tremendously blessed by your program. In my opinion, the best Christian radio podcast program ever. Your professionalism combined with the consistent quality of your guests is unmatched. Please also know I'm praying for you personally as well as the Iron Sharpens Iron ministry.
God's best to you my brother. That really arrived just when I needed to hear it most. Thank you so much Gordy in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania. We look forward to hearing a lot more from you via questions for our guests on Iron Sharpens Iron radio.
And I look forward to meeting you in person in the very near future since you are so very close to me geographically. And by the way, Mechanicsburg is a trivia question. Mechanicsburg is a town in Pennsylvania where James White, a mutual friend of my guest and mine, Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries spent a good time, a good portion of his youth in Mechanicsburg.
His father sold mobile homes in Mechanicsburg. And James White was baptized as a young boy at the Bible Church of Charminstown, Pennsylvania in Mechanicsburg or in the Mechanicsburg area where our listener Gordy is a member.
So James White was actually baptized in our listener Gordy's congregation, Bible Baptist Church of Charminstown, Pennsylvania. So that's an interesting trivia statement I should say that I want to share with you.
We have Joe in Slovenia. He asks you, Pastor John, Dear Brother Chris, please ask Brother John to speak to this quote that I read today. There is no salvation that can be had in a hope that is either completely or partially hinged upon our own works, righteousness, good behavior, political affiliation, altruism, philanthropy, or verbal assent or any verbal assent of other Christian doctrines.
Our hope must be in an unmerited grace that comes by faith alone in Jesus Christ. One cannot be saved by the blood of Jesus without trusting in the blood of Jesus and his resurrected body alone. Faith is a combination of belief and trust and there are a great many in this world who believe wholeheartedly in the death and resurrection of Jesus.
Roman Catholics are perhaps the most prominent example but can also include Mormons and others who do not trust in that accomplished work alone for their salvation. Our confessions hold that they are lost and dead in their trespasses and sins should they not trust in Christ's atonement alone to save.
Trusting partially in your own meritorious works is to remain completely condemned. How important is it for us to be clear on this topic in our day? Thank you for focusing on Reformation. So your comments on that very lengthy quote,.
Pastor John? I would absolutely agree and it's a startling thing to say but that's the message of the gospel. It strikes against every kind of pretender and the pretender is that which would mix grace with anything else because the point of the New Testament, I'm thinking specifically of verses like Romans 11 6, it says that for grace to be grace have no part in it.
It's very very clear for for grace to be grace it's a gift and we're all aware of schemes on the television or radio whereby they say call in for your free gift and there's always or many many times anyway a stipulation which means it's not actually free.
Yeah I love the way that these commercials I've been seeing on TV. They'll actually say get a second one free, just pay a separate fee. That doesn't make any sense!
Exactly. Or pay $300 shipping, you know. Yeah I think we covered the cost of the shipping there. I think we did, yeah.
But you could ship a piano for $300.
Yeah, yeah. Romans 11 6, but if it is by grace it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace would no longer be grace. The point the apostle is making is we're saved by grace, but for grace to be grace it cannot be a mixture of grace and works.
And so that clearly is the message. And Romans 4 talks about the one who works when he gets paid using the business analogy. You work for an employer, you agree that you'll work for $10 an hour or $20 or more dollars an hour and you do a work and you get paid, you don't consider what you are paid as a gift because you work for it.
And the message of the New Testament is that grace is a gift. It's not something earned. Ephesians 2 8 and 9 couldn't be more clearly, more clear. By grace you're saved through faith and that not of yourselves.
It's the gift of God. And when God is a gift there are no strings attached. It's grace plus nothing. It's faith plus nothing. And that's why we talk of grace alone and faith alone and Christ alone, not Christ, plus the intervention of Mary or the saints or anyone else.
It's Christ who saves by himself alone. And so mixing any of these things means a different gospel and there's only one that saves. And it's in that context that Paul writes in Galatians 1, I marvel that you are so soon turning from him who called you by the grace of Christ to a different gospel.
And then he says, but it's really not another true gospel. It's another of a different kind. There's only one. And to mix grace with anything else means we've forsaken and abandoned the true gospel. And it's the gospel of Christ that saves to Christ and say, the only thing I can bring to that, I can't bring my merits.
I have none. I only have demerits. All my righteousness is as filthy rags, according to Isaiah 64 6. See, the religious mind could understand if the Bible says all our unrighteousness is like filthy rags, but the Bible says our righteousness and the religious mind cannot grasp and think, well, I can cover myself by certain things I've done.
And God says, why are you bringing torrent thing to me as a form of getting to me and acquitting yourself is as filthy rags, not merely your unrighteousness. Anything you can do to try and get to God is a denial of the beauty and the grandeur and the majesty of.
Amen. And, uh, you know, it reminds me,.
I heard this analogy, uh, a long time ago, years ago. So I don't even remember where I heard it, but, uh, someone was, uh, comparing adding our own works, uh, as something meritorious to our salvation.
Can you imagine if you had heard that someone in your neighborhood was in the military and there was another person from the same hometown in the military who gave his life on the battlefield rescuing the other person who was lying there bleeding and unconscious and awaiting certain death had not the hero from the neighborhood carried that unconscious soldier on his back out of harm's way only to be shot himself and killed.
Could you imagine the person who was rescued, the soldier who was rescued telling the parents of the hero who died, well, I helped myself as well. Uh, I do thank your son for giving his life for me, but I, but I helped, you know, I'm, I'm glad that I had enough strength within me and enough common sense to, uh, help myself get rescued from that perilous situation.
Can you imagine how, how, how hurtful and, and horrifying a question like a statement like that, I should say would be to those parents. We'll just magnify that billions and trillions and quadrillions of times over when it comes to what Christ did for us.
How dare anyone actually think that anything they did added to Calvary added to what Christ received on the cross, the, the wrath of our father. Uh, I mean, it's, it's really a mockery of what he accomplished.
Is it not?
Yeah. And people don't see it in those terms, but that's exactly how God sees it, which is the most important thing that we're denigrating the work of his son that we're saying, uh, yeah, I appreciate that he did quite a lot for my salvation, but, uh, I'm the one who turned everything and made it happen by my choice, my will, my ability, my humble attitude towards the sacrifice of Christ.
Uh, I, I, I, I'm taking some of the glory. What can I do? It was because of me that I'm in the kingdom. Ultimately Christ did a whole lot, but, uh, it's me that made the, uh, decisive action again, how, how scandalous that is.
I, I hear the passion in your voice because I feel it's the passion of the heart of God. And that's what we see in the, in the new Testament. You want to see Paul stirred up and angry in just about every other place where he writes to either an individual or a church.
He starts by thanking God for them, even though he's going to like in first Corinthians, correct a whole lot of things. There was probably no church like the Corinthians that had issues happening that were heartening.
Uh, people have taking sides saying, I listened to this guy, Paul, but I don't listen to that guy, Apollos and vice versa. And there were factions in the church and he had to address all of that, but he still started by saying, I thank God for you.
And because of your faith in the Lord Jesus. And so he went on, but you come to Galatians. He doesn't even stop to say, to thank God for Galatians because he was passionate about the gospel. He just immediately just man in those days carrying the letter.
He must've had hubs, you know, to handle the fire that was in this, this, this letter from Paul. I'm marveled that you so soon turned and he sounded just like you, Chris. He was a man in flame with passion because they were believing something else.
And it was a denigration of all that Christ had done for them. Who has bewitched you, you foolish Galatians, Galatians three, one, one translation says Galatian idiots. You know, he just lets it loose and, and, uh, he he's passionate and, and, and people in our day think it's, it's wrong to be passionate, but it's actually the right thing.
If you and I understand what Christ has done, how pure that gospel is well under me, well under you, well under anyone who messes with the gospel.
By the way, uh, thank you, Joe in Slovenia for the, uh, very good question. Keep spreading the word about iron sharpens, iron radio in Slovenia and beyond. We have David in Ada, Ohio, who asks, how does the solo script Torah, how I guess it should be read or written.
How does solo script Torah apply when different interpretations are applied to the scriptures? The low is a verse and a passage where I have heard different meanings applied to each. And the first, the mystery is specifically that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, which I see as speaking against the separation between Israel and the church.
And the second passage, some apply this to the future state of Christians. When it clearly says, God has revealed these things to us, meaning what's spoken of his salvation and all the benefits resulting from being saved.
I think that basically you could even, you could even summarize David's question by merely saying, how can we adhere to solo script Torah when even Bible believing Christians disagree on certain passages in the Bible?
That's really a way, a way that you could summarize this question.
Yeah. And it's a good question because that was the objection of Rome at the time of the reformation to the Bible, uh, coming out in the language of the vernacular, the lokian and conversed in whether that was German used of God for the English language, when William Tyndale being the chief one, uh, why would they have a problem with the Bible coming out?
They had a problem because they knew what would happen. People would misinterpret it. And the reformers were never saying we have the right to misinterpret the Bible. No, they did not. They believe we have, uh, maybe in America now we have the idolaters and get the things, but the Bible and certainly God doesn't give us that, right?
He wants us to search out the scriptures. And one of the things that is the product of the reformation is what we call hermeneutics, which is the science of biblical interpretation. And there are laws that we use, which are commonly understood.
And when there are two differing and contrasting opinions over what a text means, both parties need to assume we're saying contradictory things about what a passage means. There's only one correct meaning.
There may be a hundred, even a thousand applications of the text. I might apply it in my relationships, uh, differently to someone else in theirs. But at the same time, it only means what it says and what it meant to the original audience.
And that's why certain background information is needed to rightly understand the text, what a word meant in the century in which it was said or written that needs to be taken on board. But there are laws and here's the answer.
And when there are differing interpretations, someone, at least one party, not applying. Problem is not with sola scriptura. The problem is someone is not rightly applying sola scriptura, going to the scripture alone with seeing something other than what the scripture says.
We've read into the text rather than draw out from the text, what it says. And so the principle of sola script remains and is established and is no way impugned by a miscommunication. What happens in that case is someone is not rightly dividing the word of truth.
Someone is not applying the rules of hermeneutics. And here's the problem. We don't always see our own blind spots. That's why we need one another. We need not only the people in the church of our day to help us, but the church through the centuries.
Again, we, we, we have a kind of theological snobbery to look down at former ages and think we know far more than them. But really for us to think that we're coming up now with the true interpretation of the text, when great men of God through the ages have labored their whole lives over the scriptures, we're fools then think, well, God is starting now fresh with me.
No, God has given the Holy Spirit to the church and has given gifts to the church for the edification of the body of Christ. But some of them have little information and we're very, very foolish if we think we can do without our brothers and sisters labored in the word before us.
So, uh, somewhat down the line with messed up, but the actual print remains established. The scripture alone is the word of God and rightly. By the way, you are cutting out, but we.
Got the vast majority of what you said. I don't know if you're using a cell phone or if the battery is dying on your phone, but you were cutting out quite a bit, but I know that we did get the main content and gist of what you were saying.
Um, when we're going to our final break right now. And by the way, uh, for those of you who think that Rome has some kind of superiority because, uh, they have an infallible magisterium, although that is what they say, that's what they claim doesn't mean that's a reality and an infallible Pope, uh, they claim in regard to faith and morals.
Well, that has not prevented that claim anyway, has not prevented the church of Rome for its entire existence, which is not 2000 years, uh, by the way, that is not the church that Jesus founded, but for its entire existence, uh, perhaps even if you want to say officially, since the doctorate, the council of Trent, uh, when many of the things that the Protestant reformers found abhorrent were declared as dogma, uh, you don't have any consistency or true, uh, unity in the Roman Catholic church.
You have all kinds of Roman Catholics. You have probably more divisions in the Roman Catholic church as far as ideology, philosophy, and theology. You probably have more divisions than you do amongst conservative evangelicals.
I mean, you have all kinds of liberal and leftist and bizarre ideas within the umbrella of Roman Catholicism. And I'm not to say that they don't exist amongst evangelicals either, but we're not claiming, um, to be a one true monolithic, perfect church as as they would claim.
Uh, and I'm not, I'm not saying that they would claim that the people are perfect, but the, uh, the church has not fostered unity, uh, throughout their entire.
History. Am I right on that? Very good point you're making where they've got a big roof, but under the roof, there's a lot of diametrically opposed understandings of even what is meant by the terms of the dogmas that they are supposedly all embracing.
You might meet on 19th Avenue street in your city, uh, may have a different understanding than someone in who's a priest in Mexico or in Italy or somewhere else. There's not this monolithic understanding.
And what is very, very clear is the doctrines that are espoused by Rome today were certainly unknown in the first, second, third, fourth century, uh, the doctrines about Mary. And, um, they make quite an assumption about her.
I understand. Yeah. In fact, uh,.
In fact, uh, there would be many modern day Catholics that would even be considered conservative in the 21st century who would have been executed in the days of the council of Trent,.
Uh, for heresy. What's interesting to me is, is when we look at the reformation and the great split that occurred there, the differences have not been marginalized since that time because Rome has not in any way back down with her anathemas against the reformation and those who hold to, uh, faith alone and all of those, uh, essential doctrines we're talking about, but there's been added dogmas since the reformation concerning Mary.
That's right. Divisions, at least on a paper level, are more diverse than they were 500 years ago.
Yeah. Even, even as, as recent as the 1950s and Robertson Genis told me, Robertson Genis, who's a Roman Catholic apologist, he says there's even some question amongst Roman Catholics as to whether something that John Paul II declared should be, uh, considered dogma.
And you're talking about the, the 1990s and early 2000s here. So, uh, anyway, we, we have to go to our final break right now. If you'd like to join us now is the time to do it. Our email address is chrizarnsen at gmail .com.
C H R I S A R N Z E N at gmail .com. Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence. If you live outside of the USA, don't go away. We'll be right back. God willing with John Sansom right after these messages.
Paul wrote to the church at Galatia for, am I now seeking the approval of man or of God, or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ. Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, pastor of Providence Baptist church.
We are a reformed Baptist church and we hold to the London Baptist confession of faith of 1689. We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts. We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do than how men view these things.
That's not the best recipe for popularity, but since that wasn't the apostles priority, it must not be ours either. We believe by God's grace that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man and to be vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us and to build up the body of Christ in truth and love.
If you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts, or plan to visit our area, please come and join us for worship and fellowship. You can call us at 508 -528 -5750, that's 508 -528 -5750, or go to our website to email us, listen to past sermons, worship songs, or watch our TV program entitled, Resting in Grace.
You can find us at providencebaptistchurchma .org, that's providencebaptistchurchma .org, or even on sermonaudio .com. Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor Iron Shopper's Iron Radio.
Useful and I assure you, never dull. Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern time for a visit to the pastor's study because everyone needs a pastor.
Whenever possible, purchase the products or use the services that our sponsors advertise, and then let them know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio. Thirdly, you can also donate to Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio by going to our website at ironsharpensironradio .com and click support at the top of the page.
But most importantly, keep Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio in your prayers. We hope that Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio blesses you for many years to come.
Are you a Christian looking to align your faith and finances? Then you'll want to check out Thriving Financial. We're not your typical financial services provider. We're a not-for-profit Fortune 500 organization that helps our nearly 2 .4 million members be wise with money.
We provide guidance that reflects your values so you can protect what matters most. We help members live generously and strengthen the communities where they live, work, and worship. Learn more about the Thriving Story by contacting me, Mike Gallagher, Financial Consultant, at 717 -254 -6433.
Again, 717 -254 -6433.
We know more, so much more than our eyes.
Lending faith, finances, and generosity. That's the Thriving Story.
Just survive, to thrive, thrive.
One sure way all Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio listeners can help keep my show on the air is to support my advertisers. I know you all use batteries every day, so I'm urging you all from now on to exclusively use BatteryDepot .com for all your battery needs.
At BatteryDepot .com, they're changing the status quo. They're flipping the script. They're sticking it to the man. In other words, they'd like to change the battery industry for good by providing an extensive inventory of top-of-the-line batteries that are uniformly new, dependable, and affordable.
Ordering from BatteryDepot .com ensures you'll always get fresh out-of-the-box batteries you can count on to work properly at competitive prices. Whether you need batteries for cordless phones, cell phones, radios, PCs, laptops, tablets, baby monitors, hearing aids, smoke detectors, credit card readers, digital cameras, electronic cigarettes, GPSs, MP3 players, watches, or nearly anything else you own that needs batteries, go to BatteryDepot .com.
Next day shipping available. All products protected by 30-day guarantees and 6-month warranties. Call 866 -403 -3768. That's 866 -403 -3768. Or go to BatteryDepot .com. That's BatteryDepot .com.
Lindbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Lindbrook, Long Island, is teaching God's timeless truths in the 21st century.
Our church is far more than a Sunday worship service.
It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant. It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement. It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing.
We're a diverse family of all ages. Enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ. In fellowship, play, and together.
Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman and I invite you to come and join us here at Lindbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can be.
Call Lindbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402. That's 516 -599 -9402. Or visit LindbrookBaptist .org. That's LindbrookBaptist .org.
Charles Hedden Spurgeon once said,.
Give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read. He who never quotes will never be quoted. He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.
You need to read.
Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart. The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.
Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God-centered, Christ-exalting books for all ages. We invite you to go treasure hunting at Solid-Ground-Books .com. That's Solid-Ground-Books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past to present you can unearth from Solid Ground.
Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is sponsored by Harvey Cedars, a year-round Bible conference and retreat center nestled on the Jersey Shore. Harvey Cedars offers a wide range of accommodations to suit groups up to 400.
For generations, Christians have enjoyed gathering and growing at Harvey Cedars. Each year, thousands of high school and college students come and learn more about God's Word. An additional 9 ,000 come annually to Harvey Cedars as families, couples, singles, men, women, pastors, seniors, and missionaries.
90 miles from New York City, 70 miles from Philly, and 95 miles from Wilmington, and easily accessible, scores of notable Christian groups frequently plan conferences at Harvey Cedars, like The Navigators, InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, Campus Crusade, and the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals.
Find Harvey Cedars on Facebook or at hcbible .org. Hcbible .org. Call 609 -494 -5689. 609 -494 -5689. Harvey Cedars, where Christ finds people and.
Changes lives. Welcome back. This is Chris Sorensen, and this is the last 15 minutes of.
Our program today with John Sampson, author and pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona. We have been discussing the five solas, Standing Together Alone, a new booklet that our guest has written, published by Solid Ground Christian Books, solid-ground-books .com.
Solid-ground-books .com is where you can get this booklet, and I urge you to order them in bulk and have your church order them in bulk because they should be given out to everyone who asks us a question about our faith and about why we find the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation important.
We have a listener who is not a first-time questioner, but a first-time—I don't even know how to phrase this—a first-time encourager, and I'm assuming by his wording that he knows you, Pastor John.
He says, Hi there, Chris. This is Pastor Tim from Connecticut. I just wanted to say how thankful I am for Brother John Sampson and his friendship, as well as his accent. Haha! Thank you for having him on your show today.
As a pastor who is striving for reform in a 225-year-old church in New England, men like you and Brother John are a huge blessing and help. Blessings to you both. Pastor Tim Howard, you know who this individual is, Pastor John?
Yeah, I've got to know him over.
The last few weeks only, and yet we've been in so much correspondence, we feel like we've known each other a long time. It's nice that he wrote in to express that, and he's a great guy. I'm glad he's listening and enjoying your ministry through this Iron Shelf and Zion program that you do.
Do you know what church he is the pastor of? I do. I've got it written down, but I don't want.
To misquote what it is, but I could look it up and find it on... Well, let me just say,.
While you're looking for it... While you're looking for it, Pastor Tim, if you're listening still, you have, just by virtue of the fact that you have written in for the very first time, even though technically it's not a question, you have won a free New American Standard Bible, compliments of the publishers of the NASB, so please give us your full mailing address in Connecticut, where that can be shipped to you, compliments of our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, C-V for Cumberland Valley, B-B-S for Bible Book Service dot com, C-V-B-B-S.
Dot com. And do you ever find... Eastford Baptist Connecticut, I believe. Eastford? Eastford, E-A-S-T, yes. F-O-R-D? Yes. Okay, Eastford Baptist Church, and perhaps,.
As I said, Pastor Tim, if you could get me your full mailing address, we'll have that Bible shipped out to you, and we thank the publishers of the New American Standard Bible for being such faithful supporters of Iron Sharp and Zion Radio ever since we were launched back in 2005, 2006, somewhere in that area.
And this, the five solos of the Reformation, they're like a guardrail, if you will, just like perhaps a confession of faith in a creed, which might be a lot more detailed than just simply the five solos of the Reformation, but aren't they like a guardrail to prevent churches from going off into error?
Not that they would be infallibly preventing us to do that, but it's a good thing to examine what you are doing, what you are believing by these solos, these declarations of things that each have alone attached to them, and going back to even our charismatic friends when it comes to Sola Scriptura, why on earth do you think that you need something else other than that which is God-breathed, that which has been already perfect for two millennia, and of course even longer when you consider the Old Testament much longer?
Why would you need anything else?
I was thinking of a quote, I'm trying to find it in the book here, Dr. J .R. Packer, I'm reading this, in his book A Quest for Godliness, summarized the teaching of John Owen on this matter when he wrote, if they are needless and if they disagree, there's so much in that, we don't need them, they're needless, and if they disagree, I can't find any hole in that argument, and that was again a very weighty quote that alerted me to the fact of the value of Scripture, what it is when we're handling Scripture, it's of a completely different substance and nature and source than any other information we get on the planet, it is God-breathed, and nothing else is, there's nothing else we are told is God-breathed in that sense, and the soul in these matters is to go off the mountain, once we just discard it, we're off the mountain, we're falling, and that's why Martin Luther made that famous expression, justification by faith alone, which is one of those five souls, justification by faith, and that's true of or no of, but it's also true of each one of us individually, to deny these things is to depart and from or deny the very, just in what you've said, the necessity of the Bible, and even of the glory of God, that's why these souls are remaining relevant in our day as they were just as much in the 16th century, let me give you a quote, in his book, Essential Truth, explaining the difference between necessary, he writes this, a necessary condition is a condition that must be present for a desired result to happen, without it, the result will not be forthcoming, for example, oxygen is a necessary condition for fire, however, the mere presence of oxygen is not enough to guarantee that a fire will occur, that is fortunate for us, since the world would be in flames, if oxygen automatically produced fire, oxygen is therefore necessary for fire, but in itself is not to ignite, so when we're saying that the Bible is necessary, we're saying one thing, but when we're saying it's necessary and sufficient, we're saying something completely different, and the Bible speaks of not merely the necessity, and that's why the reformers, basing their conclusions on what the Bible, it's not just merely necessary for salvation, and that's why these things are big deal issues, that's why they will remain so, the difference, the dividing line is now and then, the necessity of the scripture, the necessity of Christ, oh we need him, the glory of God, do we give some glory to God, or is it boasting only in the glory of God, the glory of God alone was the final formers in that sense, and each soul is important, but we're declaring in scripture that God's authority is in what he said, only in what he said, only in his inspired word, it is inspired word, only that can command us and bind our conscience, so the fidate, when we talk of faith alone, Christ alone, so the gratitude, grace alone, they're all talking about God's glory in salvation, God and God alone, through his son, the Lord Jesus Christ, he's the one who saves his people from sin and death, and that's why the soul has proclaimed the glory of God in salvation, in what he's, in the person and work of Christ, and to depart from that, is to get ahead, driving through the guardrail into the death that awaits around the mountain, the guardrails are in place, these solas are in place to say, don't go beyond this, or you go into territory where you are not protected, you have no salvation, to mix grace with something else means you don't get grace at all, grace has to be grace in its pure form, to be grace, and grace means a gift, it's a gift, things are important, that's why I'm so stood up and wanted to have something in my hands that I can hand to people, whether I've met them before, or whether they're new to the church, I've lived in the church, I want everybody to know these things, because I want people to know the central truths of the.
And that's what these solas give us. Now we typically should clarify that, especially when we're talking about sola fide, there are Roman Catholics and Wesleyan holiness evangelicals who agree in opposition to us that this is a license for licentious living, it's a blueprint for licentious living, and they will say, and they will either purposely or unconsciously broad brush us with those who claim to be evangelicals who do have a false understanding of sola fide, faith alone, and they will believe that somebody can go forward at an altar call, recite a prayer uttered by the minister or evangelist, and that person, by doing that, is guaranteed eternal life and nothing that ever happens after that will change that reality according to those evangelists.
Now this is a lie from the pit of hell, isn't it? I mean, first of all, nothing we do can save us, not even going forward and reciting a prayer, but aren't those who are truly transformed by Christ given new hearts?
Aren't our hearts of stone removed, and we are given hearts of flesh, and with the Holy Spirit dwelling within us, although we are not perfectly sinless on this earth, do we not have lives marked with repentance when we fall into sin?
Our hearts are grieved to the point that we always will eventually repent, and our lives will be marked with following him until we enter into eternity?
You're absolutely right. I affirm everything you just said, and I'm thinking as you're speaking of Romans 3, 4, and 5, which outline justification by faith alone very clearly, and it's followed by chapter 6, which I encourage people to read because he raises a necessary objection which he knows will be in the minds of anyone who's just heard him.
Are you saying then that we can continue in sin so that grace may abound? He anticipates that very objection, which gives me the assurance I'm saying what Paul's been saying in Romans 3, 4, and 5, and his answer is not, well, no, not really.
No, God forbid. How shall we who've died to sin live any longer in it? That's exactly the point you've made, and that is we've got a new nature now that wants to please Christ, and if there is no new desire to please Christ, it makes me wonder, though I'm not the final judge in the matter God is, but it makes me wonder whether there's been a true conversion because in a true conversion, God gives a new heart.
Someone now wants what they didn't want before.
They want to please Christ. Jesus said good trees bear good fruit. Yeah, exactly. And we're out of time, brother, and I know that your website is kingschurchaz .com, kingschurchaz .com. To order the booklet, The Five Solas, Standing Together Alone, go to solid-ground-books .com, solid-ground-books .com.
Thank you so much, Pastor John. Please hang on the line for a moment. I want to thank all of you who listened, especially all of you who sent in questions or comments. I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.