Cultish: Searching for Sasquatch: Unraveling the Mysteries of Bigfoot, Pt. 2

All right, welcome back ladies and gentlemen to cultish entering the kingdom of the cults. My name is jeremiah roberts. I'm one of the co-hosts here. Uh, I am joined, uh, once again by sarah. Good to have you back.

Hey guys. And we are joined, uh back by with dr. Ray bosh. Who's been on a couple previous episodes on cultish. Ray, it's good to have you back again.

Hey, thank you. Jeremiah. Always a pleasure always. I appreciate man.

And uh, we we know your time is valuable and uh, you have a doctor's appointment. We just realized that we were on different time zones and it looks like you got to leave a little early. So we want to you'll be here with us for about the first 20 something minutes in part.

The Nephilim and a Christian View of Sasquatch

Uh two here, but um, I want to just kind of jump in because we were talking about the nature of sasquatch and bigfoot and all that and then we wrapped up the part of the last uh part of the episode kind of talking about this very fascinating encounter that seemed to have a blend of What was inherently physical you have independent lines of testimony and witness but also you had something going on that seemed to be beyond that also.

Some things going on in regards to spirituality some sort of telepathy going on. So it seemed to be a mishmash of both. So just real quickly give us your thoughts for those and again. There's a lot of other podcasts out there that kind of go really in depth into it but people would make the case for example that Bigfoot could be or the sasquatch these creatures.

It's not a singular creature. There's molt. There's many of them. Could be descendants of the nephilim so and people kind of go into that so. Maybe you could start off explain just for those for the audience what the nephilim are.

Like what's the best and what are what's the best case that could be made from your perspective? Why that could be that could be a possibility of how we may explain of what this phenomenon potentially could be.

Well, the the nephilim were the offspring of Angels and human women uh angels who chose to leave their appointed place.

And.

As scripture says in genesis 6 Uh came in to the daughters of men after they saw them that they were fair. And they had children and these children were giants were the nephilim. Uh, do I believe that happened?

Absolutely do. I think that Bigfoot are descendants of the nephilim. I have a hard time with that. I I don't quite see the Uh the connection there. Uh, it's a it's a fascinating thing. Um I don't I don't see these these creatures as acting.

Uh.

As.

The refraim or the anakin the the other.

Uh.

Fingers of these these nephilim but the the descendants. Uh, I just don't see them. I don't see them doing that they seem more like a large undiscovered ape. Okay, uh, but there there are those aspects of of the the bigfoot question that seem to point to Creatures that are paranormal rather than actual physical animals.

Okay. That's a it's a deep it's a deep topic to jump into. Yeah, I don't know if I answered if I.

No, that's good. Okay. Well, yeah, well you I think the fact that you mentioned it's a deep topic and I think this is important too for any of you who are into this into this is because when you start bringing into The nephilim you mentioned it's a very very deep Topic but it does seem to be an area where people just tend to really really just Get into and there's a lot of different conclusions people people can get to and and usually it ends up being.

You know looking at the nephilim and people start getting into I mentioned to you earlier. They started getting into you know the book of enoch and the relationship of of of the mount herman and they just.

And it tends to and that and that stuff is interesting and there and then and there's nothing wrong with getting a better biblical understanding. So I guess my question would be especially for you uh who Do take an interest in giving a christian explanations for the fringe the supernatural the paranormal?

Like how do we look at these things? In such a way to where we can be level-headed about them. But how do we avoid? Going down the rabbit hole because I my just concern when we kind of look at this topic.

We even bring up something like the nephilim or these extra books, which again, there's a basis for them. And then they have their place a lot of people who get into this stuff. They tend to stay there um, there's a lot more to the christian walk than just Understanding who the nephilim really are or like what some of this phenomena is like, how do we deal with this in a level-headed way?

But also we don't fragment and go down the rabbit hole where we end up. You know going into what the apostle paul warned about in first timothy about getting into Uh myths and endless genealogies and this is where people does they puff themselves up with knowledge because I I do believe this is something we need to address.

Um, but I think this is also there's dangers in which and how we can fragment. What's a level way ahead of way to approach this ray? I love to hear your thoughts here.

I I think you know, I see the same problem with people who become so focused on end times. Topics on eschatology. Yeah that they. They lose track. I mean jesus in the great commission. Didn't say I want you to Spend all of your time pouring over the news that you pick up.

To see if i'm coming back soon. That's not what he said. What what did he tell us to do in the great commission? Go into all the world preach the gospel. Teach make disciples baptize. That's what we're called to do.

And that's that's our great mission. As as believers not pastors only every believer and if we Tend to get sidetracked on something and lose sight of what. If you want to put it. If you talk about the term of the church militant the church here on earth.

Yeah, what are we supposed to be doing. We lose sight of our mission. And so these things are interesting and they're important to be aware of because we we encounter people who have become so enmeshed in this.

And.

Possibly have become.

Uh.

So spiritually confused that if we don't have an understanding of these things. We can't even have a conversation with them on a level that's intelligent enough To help move them from error to truth. And so these are topics we need to be aware of we need to recognize that they exist, right?

Uh, we we need to. I guess the simplest way to put it all truth is god's truth. Right. And so the truth about these things is part of god's overarching truth. And as as francis bacon said, you know, god has given us two books.

The book of nature And the book of this book of scripture, and so we have both of those to explore.

And.

If we keep in mind. Will this help me to understand who god is? Will this help me to understand who I am through christ jesus as god's child. That's a good thing. Uh secondarily we say will this help me to help others come to a saving knowledge of christ.

Beautiful to be able to do that. But if we just get so enmeshed in it That as the old saying goes, you know, you become so heavenly minded. You're no earthly good if you become so so wrapped up in. Whether it's whether it's bigfoot ufos.

Or.

Deliverance ministry, uh. In times whatever it is if you lose track Of why this is significant why it's important. And put that there. You've essentially created I hate to say it, but you've created an idol Out of these things and you've put them before.

Your commitment And your loyalty which is first of all To god.

And I think that that's really good that you touched on that because you know. We see a lot of different groups doing that you see that in hyper charismatic groups with miracles and their emphasis on that and you know I mean people literally witnessed christ raising from the dead and they still didn't believe the greatest miracle of all time.

So when you get so focused on thinking that that's the most important thing. To talk about that. It can be a total distraction from the gospel.

Absolutely. Absolutely. I've got i'm i'm i'm helping a a sister in christ right now. Who's. Who's involved in a church that is?

So.

Overly focused on the idea of tongues. That the the church services are chaos.

Hmm.

And I mean and she recognizes god is a god of order and she recognizes that paul says if. If you these these gifts are here, but the gift of tongues should not be used. Unless there's someone there to interpret.

Otherwise people are going to think you're drunk. Yeah. Because you just babble and no one can understand it. So. Yeah, here's a here's a. A group of i'm i'm certain they're sincere believers. But their focus has moved off of what's central to the christian gospel.

And on to something else that distracts them from really doing god's work. Yeah.

No, that's really good ray and uh, just one thing I want to comment and I want to get your thought on something else and I I know your time's valuable here. Uh, we only got a couple more minutes of you here on but um, you know, I I think that you know.

Again, we're not saying we shouldn't look at these things. We need to do that. We need we need to do in light of keeping the main thing the main thing and just in regards to. You know all the different, uh evangelism that you do with that we've done with the with people who are in the cults is that.

Whether it's hebrew israelites, whether it's uh, our latter-day saint friends or mormon friends or jehovah's witnesses. There tends to be all these different areas in which you can get sidetracked. You can go all down all these different rabbit holes informations.

But you always need to make the thing that keep the main thing the main thing which is who is jesus. How are you saved? Who is god? Who is jesus? How are you made right with him? What are you going to do with your sin?

And so if in fact you are in a conversation where someone who's open to the supernatural the idea sasquatch Uh comes up at some point you need to figure out how can I use this as a catalyst? To share the gospel with them.

You shouldn't stay there. And so otherwise if you stay there, then all you're doing is the speculation the full speculation that's worn about in timothy. Um, so that's just something to think about too when we when we looked at any of any sort of a supernatural phenomena.

So one question I have for you real quickly and sarah we're going to kind of go into some of the the physical. Uh testimony and witness, but i'm just curious too ray. Um. Is there any? Uh uniqueness in regards to the different encounters the witness and testament is physical that's been documented specifically.

In regards to geographical location. I know for example UFOs there a lot of phenomena tends to take place either over bodies of water. Or sometimes in in desert areas what you know, there's a connection to like why area 51 is placed where it is.

But just in regards to you know, certain areas in ontario canada or in the northwest like in your era area. Sarah, is there any sort of uniqueness or collaborative? Spec like ideas or conjecture of like why.

Of just the geographical locations where these sightings have happened as far as sasquatch and bigfoot are concerned.

Geographic Patterns in Sasquatch Sightings

Well, I think it there's. There are a couple things here.

Um.

You see the greatest concentration in heavily wooded forested areas wilderness areas but they all sightings are also experienced across the country now interestingly in nebraska. Most of the sightings have been concentrated in the eastern and southeastern part of the state.

Which is very heavily wooded along the missouri river uh, so there's been a lot of speculation about migratory routes that some of these things take but. Then you have to look at some of the things that tie these.

These events these sasquatch sightings bigfoot sightings with this with the same, uh. The same situation as ufo sightings many times around power plants. Many times in areas where they appear not constantly.

But where there is a history over decades of these things occurring and john keel, uh Fabulous researcher who uh passed away several years ago. John keel called these window areas. Uh almost as if there were thin spots between dimensions where these things could pop through.

Now we could speculate endlessly about what causes these window areas. But I think that happens a lot as well there is something and I have my own ideas, but I don't have time to go into it. I have my own ideas about what happens there.

But there are there are areas where you will find a concentration of uh of bizarre activity. Ufos creature sightings, um. Sometimes a lot of poltergeist activity accompanies these things. Wow, uh various things but I don't know that we can.

With the exception of for the very the very real physical unknown north american ape uh sightings. Which I think are real animals uh you. Those generally tend to cluster around Wilderness areas and heavily forested wood wilderness areas.

Where there's ample cover and there's an ample food support food source for them to find. Okay.

Great, and just just last couple minutes before we wrap up with you here ray. Because I just want to bring it to the point that you know, you're you're someone who is very knowledgeable in this area uh, both in regards to phenomena and you've been uh, and uh.

Comes to ufos the fringe the paranormal, uh in this case sasquatch. And you know. There's probably a lot of people out there who would kind of really want they almost like oh I wish I knew everything that ray knew and.

You know, there's nothing wrong with accumulating knowledge and understanding this but you know. When you talk about keeping the main thing the main thing so with all that, you know. Uh in regards to all the research that you've done and again, we're talking about understanding things like genesis 6 or The book of venok or kind of all these different areas and putting them all together that people tend to get into.

Uh, let's just say someone comes into your uh office tomorrow for counseling and there's someone who's an unbeliever and they're asking questions or. And and they bring up bigfoot or kind of the interest behind it and they kind of hear about you.

Oh, you're a christian and but you've done this paranormal research and they start asking you questions. How would you use the conversation around sasquatch? Like give us an example like how how could you springboard?

That into the gospel and really understanding their need for christ and and to deal with their sin. How would you do that? Because you're not just a researcher in the paranormal. You're also a pastor.

Like how would you share this? How do you how you do that? We wrap up your time with you here, right?

Okay, I will I'll give i'll give you my my rapid fire breakdown here. Yes I I think uh, I think always. We come down. Regardless of what the topic is We can we can address it with Four things in mind.

And those are the four questions That humanity as a whole has always tried to answer. Origins meaning morality and destiny. Where did we come from? Why are we here? How should we live. Where are we going?

And so if we bring everything back to those four things origins meaning morality and destiny We can focus any topic. We can turn the focus to christ and to the ultimate truth behind those four questions.

So I I just as a general rule of thumb, that's what i'm always thinking whether i'm whether i'm uh, debating with um. A spiritualist a psychic.

Uh.

A die-hard materialist evolutionist. Evolutionary, uh scientist. Is origins meaning morality destiny and if we if we keep those things in mind?

With with.

Christ at the center of of our thinking.

Uh.

That's the best way i've found to approach it now. I I will say that preceding that. I always say Okay, lord. Give me the words to use. Yeah to help this person. Because you know, you know what they need to hear, you know the way I need to approach this.

But the framework that I use are. Those are those four topics.

Hmm.

Excellent. Well ray, I know you got to get going and uh, also as always we know you've been through some Challenges as far as health-wise. So, uh, we will be praying for your for your continued health and well-being.

And again, we just praise the lord and thank you so much for uh your contribution. Just just for really everything you do. So I thank you again. We look forward to lord. We'll have anyone soon, man.

Jeremiah anytime I appreciate it and I i'm leave you in good hands with sarah. Sounds good. Sounds good.

Blessings blessings wise awesome. So, uh, that was pretty cool. Yeah, definitely. Give me give me your thoughts on just like everything that ray said I mean just so far from the time that we had with ray like and all your times at bigfoot.

Just give me some quick takeaways real quick.

Bigfoot, Worldview, and the Gospel

Well, I think with what ray just said about how can we bring it back to you know. The gospel and talking about origins with people, you know, a lot of people who believe in this believe in sasquatch, you know.

They are not christians, um, but they're along the evolutionary lines, you know believing in evolution and so. As christians that could be a segue when they want to talk about sasquatch and you know their theory being oh.

It's the missing link or oh, it's you know. We evolved from apes and sasquatch could be a part of that. You can go into you know, god being the creator and explain that um, You know evolution is bogus.

Okay.

No, that's good, that's a good point like you always want to have this whatever the person's world I mean people are always going to view The idea of sasquatch or bigfoot according to the world view. I mean you have that in so there's a guy named luis Elizondo and He's been he was part of tom delong's company to the stars academy, but he's strictly a naturalist.

And so he views the whole line of the ufos and like this is this is a place where they're going into restricted airspace. Which if another country is doing that it would be an act of war. But we don't know what this phenomenon is where it's coming from, but he views it through the lens.

The only thing he's viewing it through is national security. Like that's that's the alarming factor. He doesn't take into account anything else because he's just he's a naturalist. It's only the material world, right?

So he doesn't have an explanation versus you have someone like tom delong. Who do you mention too? You're angel nero's fan too, aren't you? Yes, I am. Yes.

Did you go to one of the concerts I did. I think they came to tempe. I believe it was before the pandemic. Okay everything but yeah. Yeah, and so he mentioned aliens at the concert. Really? Do you remember what you said.

Josh and I were just looking at him like yeah, not surprising.

Well, yeah, and I think too it's very interesting because when you look at even The like tom delong who's not a christian like even some of his music In angels and airwaves is just this like this transcendent like I want to I want to reach out beyond.

Right, you know and just you know. It's almost as it's almost evident of what it says in ecclesiastes that the lord has put on In eternity into the hearts of men and you kind of see that like tom delong knows there's something more.

And he's trying to find it through, you know, making sense of this phenomenon. But then you have but then you look at uh. Some of the activity for example that tom delong has had in regards to where he goes with aliens.

He tends to totally view it through the lens of like, all right, there's a spiritual component. There's stories about him where I don't know if it was steven Greer, but he was doing the kind of something similar to a ce5 disclosure and he's like waking up at three o 'clock in the morning.

You know, you know encountering, you know little green men and kind of having these weird Supernatural encounters which is very congruent with other people who kind of get into the occult and that's I mean.

That is a prime example of what i'm talking about with people who are being misled by satan ultimately because if they you know with tom delong and Seeing these little green men and oftentimes they'll talk to these people and give them it's creepy like an anti-gospel.

Yeah.

Message you know, that's that's something that These people need to be aware. They know that there's something supernatural. Yeah, they know that Materialism and just the natural, you know evolutionary Viewpoint of modern society doesn't cut it.

So they're searching for that supernatural truth, but they're being misled. Okay.

No, that's really good. So I think just as a whole I mean there's a lot more we can unravel here and we've got a couple of guys who uh, A couple of different guys who run podcasts who are fans of our show who've kind of delved into bigfoot a lot more.

And so hopefully in the future, uh We'll try and maybe collaborate with another podcast to maybe kind of go deeper into the aspect of sasquatch. But I think just as a whole I think ultimately when we look at like the mission of cultish when we talk about like you're in a cult I love you.

I want you out of it and with christ. So whether it's someone who's looking at the mysterious the mysteries behind sasquatch of someone who's a materialist. Who's an atheist trying to make sense of it?

How can I use this? Almost in the same sense as paul in athens, you know said as your poets have written We are all we are some of his children paul's quoting pagan literature. But using it as a catalyst to talk about the the true god the true and living god who made heaven and earth in the same way someone who's kind of maybe someone who Reads the story at the end of episode one with dr Ray about that person had that encounter even though he went back to normal life.

Someone may read that story and like how could I have an experience like that? And they're actually searching for sasquatch and going on these hunts for bigfoot or just taking an interest in it to hopefully experience something like that.

Which how would you use that? We need to figure out how how would I use that as a catalyst to share the gospel of that person? Talking about how christ is the ultimate Piece of supernatural knowledge in him why all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

So I think that's that's the main point. When it comes to the spiritual component, whatever the person or just the component bigfoot is that you want to use this conversation. As the catalyst is stepping stone for sharing the gospel then pointing them to christ.

Because if you just stay in all these speculative areas, then it's it's you're becoming a gong or clanging symbol in some sense.

Right and ultimately, you know, it goes back to People searching for experience and wanting experience to satisfy them. You look at the new age. And these people that delve into the new age They are following after these things that that they think are going to satisfy them, but they never do.

Yeah, you know only christ will satisfy a person. So I would say to someone who Is really fascinated with wanting to have an encounter with sasquatch That's not going to satisfy you. Would it be cool if this does exist to see it?

Sure but ultimately Like ecclesiastes chasing after the wind that's not going to lead you to true fulfillment and peace with god.

Okay. No, that's that's really really good so and that's a good way to really kind of hit the pinnacle in just regards to the just the. A general brief overview of the supernatural like spiritual component of sasquatch.

So we let's have a little fun here as we wrap up here. So, uh, we kind of touched on some general ideas. I mean, uh, dr. Ray gave some examples of the interesting geographical locations. I'm sure there's a lot More to that that we could explore at some other point.

But you mentioned in regards to just the physical witness and testimony. This is multiple events multiple encounters, but there does seem to be Some what of a corroboree between you said the the people who typically witness.

Uh this so talk just a little bit about what do we know about the people who typically encounter?

The Reliability of Witnesses and Physical Evidence

Uh.

Do sasquatch sightings? Yeah, so.

Basically. You know when we're talking about sasquatch, we're talking about most consistently people seeing a large. You know hairy bipedal. Six to nine foot tall ape, you know, that's what people are seeing.

Um. Like ray mentioned yeah often occurring in largely wooded areas. But one thing that I wanted to note, you know. First off i'm not trying to convince people to believe in sasquatch. I believe in it.

I think that it's real. Um, I would much rather you believe in christ. Yeah right, but I do want to say that something that's really interesting when you talk about. The thousands of reports that exist.

Yeah today where you can go on the internet read, you know. Listen to podcasts like sasquatch chronicles with wes um. You know people are seeing something right and there's consistency amongst these reports and a lot of times the people that are seeing these things.

Are.

Policeman, you know law enforcement officers government workers, um loggers. Hunters people who really wouldn't have a reason to like lie about it because they're going to face ridicule anyways. So I think that that adds to some credibility about this thing being out there, right?

Well, it's interesting too because if you're in a situation like that, you know, you're talking about people with a specific vocation. Where they're in the process of doing their vocation with it. So someone someone is hunting.

They're going out to hunt deer. Uh, they're not going out to film sasquatch. Um, they or people like, uh, you know a fireman they're going out to firefighters like some I don't know if it's like firefighters or like the guys who do the smoke jumping or.

Uh where they have like people who are in law enforcement like they're going out doing something right? And so maybe the reality is is that. Given that like these encounters typically aren't with people who are looking for it.

Which could give some explanation why there's not this amount of like clear footage.

Right. Well, yeah, and you know the thing with that too people are like there's cameras nowadays. How how in the world could we not have clear footage of this by now? When you think about the amount of wilderness that is unexplored.

And if you are say a hunter going into the woods and you are not there to find sasquatch, but you see one. Odds are you're going to be terrified. The last thing you're thinking is to pull out your phone and take a picture of this thing.

Okay, you know so like. These people, you know, for instance with hunters, they're not going back into the woods. A lot of times they're terrified. Yeah, like they don't camp anymore. They don't hunt anymore after seeing this because they know that there's something out there, right?

No, it's interesting too. So in regards to just like evidence when you look at like these encounters I mean usually if you look at a You know nature show or something like that and there's the you know.

There's the there's actually this really awesome instagram account called nature is metal. Uh, just you know, if you check out this instagram account, it's very violent. Uh, and it's very graphic but it's basically a bunch of just pictures of just the graphic brutality of nature and so it's like, you know zebra with its head halfway severed off and With an eye popping out and it's just but all the pictures are like in super hd.

So it's almost like this real raw Uncensored version of nature that you're not going to get at the phoenix zoo or our typical zoo showing. So my point being that when it comes to like these encounters, is there any evidence whether.

Because you mentioned they're elusive. So they are they wanting to sort of be left alone? Are they are they predatory in nature? Have we seen you know certain wildlife, you know being taken out? Because a lot of times when you look at the uh There's certain phenomena that's associated with you know.

The mutilation of different creatures and there's a that's a whole nother subject and tangent. But just from what you know, is that is there is there a predatory aspect? To to sasquatch or what are those encounters like in that regard?

Yeah, so I mean if these creatures exist then they're likely a population of them, you know. They're eating they're eating a food source. Okay, you know i've heard of hunters talking about seeing one with a deer over its shoulder like carrying a deer or a hunter saying that.

They took down a buck. They knew exactly where that buck was and they go Walking to get to it and it's gone. Something has dragged it. Okay.

So so then that makes sense too if the encounter typically are typically hunters. Maybe they're just taking advantage of the fact they know that this person's a hunter and they're they're going to go ahead and I can.

Leverage. Oh, yeah them like killing. Oh, it's mine, you know, right? That's how it is. So, um, and then in regards to like other evidence, too um, you know you look any two and look at a crime scene, you know people look for like a you know fingerprints or You know if they're if there's blood or just and they kind of look at the csi in that regard.

So in regards to just like fingerprint prints of footprints, you know, do we have? Evidence of these encounters or someone says I saw this and they like I said This is the example that ray gave where they had they had the you know park ranger and they saw this, you know.

This that was a unique circumstance this glowing substance and I thought it was interesting that it went all the way to 3 a .m. Just because then again, that's kind of speculation, but you know given the reality of typically what happens.

At 3 a .m with the witching hour and I don't know if those are directly connected. But anyways, um, yeah. Just in regards to the forensic aspect though of like the footprints and the fingerprints and that sort of stuff.

Like what what evidence from what you know has been accumulated, too?

DNA, Footprints, and Other Physical Traces

Yeah, so one of the reasons why I do believe in sasquatch is because of the dna evidence that has been found. Um, There's dna of sasquatch. Well when you talk about the footprints that people have found in the woods Of course, there is the instances where they've been faked but largely these footprints Show identifiable characteristics of something that a human would not be able to make.

Right, you know, so there's a Prolific researcher in this community named. Dr. Jeff meldrum and you can go research him. But he's basically a footprint expert and he's credited for um discovering the mid tarsal break so what that is basically is a characteristic in A footprint in these large tracks that are say 16 to 19 inches long impossible for a human to make and they actually have a Feature in the foot called the mid tarsal break that a human does not have.

So if there is an undiscovered primate in the woods That would be considered evidence That it exists, you know, and then along with the hair samples that have been found, um that Basically hair has been found and They run it under dna and they discover that it's not human.

But it's a two percent difference. And it's an a primate But not any known primate.

When you say two percent difference, this is the two percent from. What makes up from a homo sapien correct like human being to? Putting them into the level of primate just just from all the other information they have about primates.

But they don't have a category for this right. And that two percent difference does not sound like much but it's a huge difference.

Okay. Okay. Interesting. Um, what other things that in regards to understand the physical evidence that you think would be good to uh to point out? You mentioned again the loggers the people who are typically not Looking for it and people are associating it.

You know the the closest point of reference some sort of primate and usually when you think about a gorilla or something with that sort of like Physique, you're typically looking at a lot more like a jungle environment like usually when you think about the woods you're thinking about.

You know, you're looking at wolves.

Deer.