May 11, 2017 Show with James M. Renihan on “The Institute for Reformed Baptist Studies & IRBS Seminary”

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Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living

on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming.

This is Chris Arns and your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Thursday on

in this 11th day of May 2017 and I'm delighted to have back on the program

today.

Dr. James M Renahan who is Dean and professor of historical theology

at the Institute of Reformed Baptist Studies and we are going to be hearing an update from him on

the progress that IRB s is making and to hear more about what

they are Doing and what they have planned for the future and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to

iron sharpens iron radio.

Dr Jim Renahan.

Hi Chris glad to be with you today and in studio with me is my co -host the reverend buzz Taylor and hello once again and

If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own for dr Jim Renahan our

email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

That's Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Chris Arn z e n at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you

live outside of the good old USA and we ask of you to only remain anonymous if it's about a

personal and private matter and Once again, that email address is Chris Arnson at

gmail .com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Before we even get into the Institute of Reformed Baptist Studies.

This may seem like a silly question to you because you know, I'm a reformed Baptist, but we do have

Listeners that seem to be joining the iron sharpens iron audience for the first time every week.

I get emails from unfamiliar individuals from all over the world.

So I'd like to ask you what is a reformed Baptist?

I know people some people might be scratching their heads we have Presbyterians who

reject the idea that that is even a possibility.

That's an oxymoronic Title or name or reformed Baptist and you even have some fundamentalist Baptists

or Baptists of other kinds.

That would agree with the Presbyterians on that they would say there's no such thing as a reformed Baptist.

And then you have others that are just clueless when they hear that term.

I can still remember a radio host Who was interviewing James White?

Dear friend of mine from Alpha Omega Ministries many years ago.

He was a A friend of mine who was hosting his own five -minute program on

family radio.

This is back in the 90s and he had not been familiar with the term reformed Baptist and he

asked Dr. White you say you were a reformed Baptist.

What are you now?

He was using the term as if he was reforming from being a Baptist.

But anyway, if you could let us our listeners know what is a reformed Baptist?

And

my answer is

well in

the

enclosed in

reformed

Baptist.

And and so Spurgeon was using the term an act

more detailed response

stream

who were then called

General atonement and general

election.

A reformed Baptist

probably originates right there in Carlisle in the early

1960s.

Relationship.

And the leadership of somewhere in that relationship.

Whether it was some of the guys from Philadelphia.

Or actually some of the leadership in Carlisle.

I'm not they are the ones who first in a

modern context to say we're committed to the reformed faith at large.

But we tweak it a little bit.

When it comes to and if you were

to to take a look at our confession of faith.

It's it's commonly known as the 1689 Confession.

If you looked at it and compared it to the Westminster Confession from 1647 the

Presbyterian document you would see that there's a direct family relationship between the two.

The vast majority of the material in the 1689 confession is exactly the same

as what's in the Westminster Confession.

And they did that on purpose.

We do have our and

the Reverend Buzz Taylor has a question.

Well, just to kind of put myself in perspective here for history here.

Just like with Presbyterians.

You've got everything from The liberals that don't believe in the inspiration of the scriptures anymore

all the way down to like my church a reformed Presbyterian Church.

You have Baptist churches that are reformed.

You have Baptist churches that are far away from being reformed in their theology.

If the Baptist started out and I have the 1689 confession, I really do like it.

But how how are there so many splinters off of that?

Where did where did all the others go wrong if I can put it that way.

I don't understand my total depravity.

But I mean like I I'm actually this isn't very well known but I am ordained Baptist.

But I was ordained by a An independent Baptist board in in Western, New York

years ago.

A free will believing.

Baptist Church, so yes, so, you know and for the longest time I had never heard of

Reformed Baptist even when I was a Baptist, so how did we get from 1689 to what we have today?

Yeah, well, that's a it's a long story in a good question

both in England and in the United States.

They the Baptists moved away from their older confessionalism.

If you look at the the 18th century like for example near you the Philadelphia Association is sort of the

mother Association of Baptists and immersion reprint

but in

the 18th

century It was reprinted in Charleston called

reprinted in Warren, Rhode Island.

It was come to the 18th.

At the 19th century here in the US and also in England the Baptists are starting to move away

from a Commitment so that

by the

time you get to the end of Spurgeon's life, for example, you had what was called the downgrade

controversy.

Spurgeon as part of the Baptist Union was hoping that somehow he could convince them to

Adopt some form of doctrinal statement and they were unwilling to do so.

And it's a real simple

but it but it illustrates the point the same thing that a similar thing have.

Fundamentalism has take

fundamentals of the

faith

fundamentals and

until the 1950s.

It right there in Carla and then now there's a great move back

towards the confession though, right?

Very strong.

Yes, it's very encouraging to see what's happening and.

Although there has always been from recorded history a divide amongst Baptists

between those that would be Reformed or particular Baptists and those who

would be Arminian although Most Baptists I have ever met or ever read

even from the past who are not Calvinist do not call themselves Arminian but you can't escape the

fact that Most are four -point Arminian that are outside of the reform camp.

But even though there was that divide was there not a time when the Calvinist actually dominated Baptist

life and today it's a reverse.

It's today.

We are a minority.

Oh.

Yeah,

very

clearly in

the general

Baptist time you get

to the end.

It wasn't until the evangelical

route in the

middle

of the acre

the vast majority.

Yes, and even it may shock a lot of our listeners but Even

denominations today like the large.

I think it's the largest Protestant denomination in the world the Southern Baptist Convention even

they began as an exclusively Calvinistic denomination whereas today

they are a minority and in varying degrees they are either merely

tolerated or Absolutely hated and despised by some others within

that denomination.

Who would would like nothing more than to see them disappear from the Southern Baptist Convention?

Yeah, I'm

not sure that

that's

exactly then you're right.

Overwhelming.

I was just going.

According to the very reason that the founders ministries call themselves the founders.

Because they are seeking to restore the teachings and doctrines of the founders of the

Southern Baptist Convention.

To the denomination and the founders are or are all Calvinist today.

Yes.

Yeah.

So you would you would you would grant that there were Arminians as a part of the original group of Southern

Baptist Convention?

Leaders, but they were in the minority.

Okay, you have to remember that there were already status.

Yes, and but the leaders you're saying were exclusively Calvinistic the

founding leaders.

Predominantly, I can't think of all of the names and

we're not the regular Baptist at one time.

Predominantly Calvinist.

Oh, certainly.

Yes.

In fact, that was just sort of the American name for particular.

Yeah, and it's.

It's interesting that I have met a number of them and although I have met some thoroughgoing

Calvinist among them I've also met some vehemently anti Calvinist pastors in the regular Baptist group.

Yeah.

Yeah, you know the the general association of regular Baptist

Church

regular Baptist

real

older more established and.

It's interesting when I have read Documents from centuries past by

non -baptists by Arminian Christians and leaders in various fellowships

and denominations that were not Calvinist they write as though

they assume that Baptists are all Calvinist.

Yeah that when they are saying something In opposition to Calvinism, they will.

They will typically write at least very often as I have read.

They will.

If they're referring to a Baptist they will automatically seem seemingly assume that the person is a Calvinist.

Yeah, that's true.

Well, tell us about IRBS the Institute for Reform Baptist Studies and

Tell us about its roots how it came about and of course then we will get an up

date from you about our IRBS theological seminary.

Great.

Yes

put

together

for Cooperation so this was his idea.

Yes, it arose.

It was an invitation that came and dr.

Robert Godfrey is he in the United Reformed Church of North America?

Yes. He is.

That's a pedo Baptist.

Congregation or denomination I should say.

Yes it is.

Yes, but

Churches of the associate and that proposal was

God but all

faculty at

Westman.

Yeah,

it's.

Refreshing to hear this especially when you

Constantly hear from those outside of the Reformed camp That we are

sectarian bigoted and Isolationist and really

do not seek any Cooperation or involvement outside of our own little pocket

or a little sect.

It's good to see that men who can disagree very strongly on areas that

involve church polity and baptism Very important issues in the body of Christ, but

there is still great love and affection and cooperation there.

Yeah, I was Reverend Joel Kim Who's the president -elect

and we were taught.

The Lord has enabled us to

give very

strong

love each other.

We have a deeper mutual

appreciate a

long history

to me about

appreciated our students and the ability to give

me an update.

There's also a lesson.

To.

Those who are living up to this negative stereotypes within the Reformed Camp

both on the Pato Baptist and Reformed Baptist side who do have those

Sectarian and even sometimes dare I say cultic attitudes of Isolation and

disdain for those outside of their exact way of thinking.

Yeah, yeah, we

you know, we want and

that's probably another one of the.

Uniqueness unique character traits of Reformed Baptists

as opposed to those outside of Reformed theology those in the Baptist

Camp outside of Reformed theology is that Reformed Baptists have historically? sought

to find unity and camaraderie with Protestantism and

Protestants in general and especially our Presbyterian and Dutch Reformed brethren.

Yeah, let's

be

honest.

We have been.

We look at

all of

these men.

Yes, and we.

Very often will joyfully Celebrate things such as the 500th anniversary of

the Protestant Reformation whereas many of our Baptist friends outside of Calvinism

outside of the Reformed faith will disdain sometimes even go to that level

of Opposition to the Protestant Reformers and anything Protestant.

Yeah.

The other hand aren't those sometimes some of your

strongest anti -catholic people.

This is a.

Reverend buzz Taylor our co -host you're talking about the those non.

Yes.

Yeah.

Well, yes, I think what you're getting at.

Isn't it odd?

Dr. Renahan that you have Fundamentalists fundamentalist Baptists who are vehemently anti

Catholic and be will be filled with hateful rhetoric at times even

beyond that which is necessary and yet they are more on the side of

Erasmus than they are on the side of Luther and the debate on the bondage of the will and in many ways are

more Unconsciously more on the side of Catholicism.

So teary logically.

We have Let's see.

We have all the way from Slovenia.

We have Joe Who says dear brother Chris, thanks for having such quality guests like dr. Renahan.

I consider myself a Reformed Baptist.

I view my view of the Lord's Supper is firmly with his wing leaves memorial remembrance as opposed to

Calvin's emphasis on Christ spiritual presence with the elements as a means of grace is my view

within the scope of Reformed Baptists.

Why or why not is my view the majority or minority view among the Reformed Baptists?

Thank you so much for sharpening our focus on Reformed Baptist distinctives and to be perfectly honest.

Dr Renahan most of my life as a Reformed Baptist I have leaned towards these wing

lien idea of a memorial remembrance but have in more

recent years begun to investigate More deeply Calvin's understanding and the understanding

of some of the other reformers, but if you could respond to.

Joe from Slovenia's question at least briefly.

You know.

Yeah, I have heard that.

I have heard that in terms of you know, how the memorialist view.

Um, let me

let me

suggest to read and it does.

Yeah, in fact, I hope to have Richard Barcellos on the program to discuss that book.

But as as far as his question is concerned could a church for instance be

in Arpga if they were to have a.

Purely memorial view of the Lord's

Supper.

And for those of you

who don't

know what Arpga is.

That's the Association of Reformed Baptist Churches of America Which dr. Renahan is

of which dr. Renahan is a part and I'm assuming that a lot of those involved with

IRBS are involved in Arpga as well.

Am I correct?

Yes, all of our trustees.

And before I get into go to into more details about the seminary.

Not all Reformed Baptists even within Arpga are in lockstep as far as being cookie cutter

congregations.

Are they.

I mean I've I've seen and experienced Some variety within

the the Reformed Baptist churches in various parts of the country.

Even here in Carlisle Pennsylvania the the church

may not be Exactly like a lot of other Reformed Baptist churches.

For instance, there are Reformed Baptist churches that refuse to have any kind of cross on the wall

Whereas here in Carlisle we do.

Some Reformed Baptist churches are very opposed to choirs And things like that

they fear that may be slipping into the realm of vain worship and so on

and And since there were no choirs in the New Testament the more strict adherence to the regulative

principle I might not want that or might even oppose that being a presence.

So there are differences aren't there?

Amongst you.

Yes. Yes.

What we have in common, of course our commitment

matters that are

out.

Alright, we'll be learning more about IRBS and the seminary when we return from

this station break.

And by the way, thank you very much Joe in Slovenia for your question and continue listening to iron sharpens iron and

Spreading the word in Slovenia and beyond but we're gonna be right back after these messages with dr. Jim Renahan God

willing.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Ornson.

If you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours with about 90 minutes to go is dr James M

Renahan Dean and professor of historical theology at the Institute of Reformed Baptist Studies and we

are getting updates on IRBS and the seminary and if you'd like to join us on the

air with a question for dr Renahan our email address is Chris Ornson at gmail .com.

Chris Ornson at gmail .com.

That's CHRI s a r n z e n at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name city and state and country of residence if you live outside the USA.

And you may remain anonymous if it's about a personal and private matter and we have from the

Trinity Grace Church of Greater Manchester in the United Kingdom.

We have pastor Oliver Almond Smith, and I hope I'm pronouncing almond

correctly.

He says hi Jim being from the United Kingdom where reformed and confessional training for a man is

hard to find.

Can you help us?

Will there be an international aspect to the new seminary.

How can we work with you to facilitate this?

Also, could you let me know how I can?

Listen to the program.

Okay.

This is IronTroopensIronRadio .com is obviously.

Where you can get the archive of the program later on with kind regards from this

side of the water.

Pastor Oliver almond Smith.

So the art is it going to have an international aspect to it?

Well, let's talk about the seminary first.

Because we haven't sure.

Two weeks ago yesterday

full we've

been

working on

this

for a

long time, but that we

can go full speed ahead.

So our goal is to open classes in

2018 year 2021.

Have our first graduating class of men who we hope churches will call into

it's not.

Well, let me say it will be primarily focused on the Master of Divinity degree, which is

the standard Seminary degree that's off in

preparation.

So that's

that

intellect.

And also with

dr. Godfrey this morning today with his his final chapel service as a

preacher During his presidency and I congratulated him afterwards and I thanked him for

the warm Friendship and the welcome that they've given to us.

So I have a certain amount of sadness that we will be leaving here.

Although we'll be leaving here

with

really

good

relationship

cited

about

in England.

We hope that be with

us.

Well, thank you pastor almond Smith and we hope that you

continue listening to IronTroopensIronRadio and spreading the word about the program throughout the UK and

And So.

A lot of changes are being made there.

Do you have a new website and so on.

Yes, actually.

IRBS

Summit.

Sign up there on

the contact

page for the updates that

come.

Trustees have for

our new

school 40

years

and even training them for the gospel ministry

and everyone who knows Steve's

devotion

and piety.

You

know a

seminary

is in an

environment.

We have some other men that we.

Well, I hope you

also get.

Pastor Tim Conway on your faculty.

So this way you can advertise that Steve Martin and Tim Conway have joined the faculty of the Institute of Reformed Baptist

Studies.

But Please tell Pastor or should I say please tell

Steve Martin that I eagerly would love To have him as a guest in

IronTroopensIronRadio.

I've been wanting to have him on the program for years and things just slipped through the cracks and

in the past there were conflicts with schedules and Calendars and so on but I would love

now that this update especially has been made.

I would love to have him on the program.

Yeah.

In fact.

Not long ago one of my sponsors Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service here in Cumberland Carlisle,

Pennsylvania Patty Jennings one of the owners Had been urging me to get Steve

Martin on the program and and I remember there was an attempt made.

But for some reason that fell through the cracks, but this is a reminder for me to Try to set that up.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's probably why Patty wanted me to get him on there.

I'll get him on here I should say.

We have pastor Sterling Vanderwerker from Shepherd's Fellowship in

Greensboro, North Carolina and He says thank you. Dr. Renahan for including a Sovereign

Grace Baptist Association guys in the Reformed Baptist group.

What do you understand to be the most meaningful difference between the 1644?

46 and

the

1689 London

Baptist Confession

and

they.

Are there differences though, yes the different format.

And so the first confession the 1644 and its revision

1646 and then there was another minor

revision or

sometimes the separatist confession.

It was it came out of the Netherlands one of the

Probably written by Henry Ainsworth

according to the order of that separatist

confession where the second London.

To that

of the

West.

One

of the interesting thing

hounded

out

of the church

acrimonious language.

Towards the Church of England not just towards Rome, but towards

probably I don't know if this is a fair word, but let's say bitter.

Against their put all of

that language and it's it's a

much better that

seems.

We're like

you we agree with you.

We want you to read this and recognize that we are Orthodox Christians.

They have that similarity.

They have the same theology, but the form the structure.

We have Mike from Fillmore, Indiana.

Is there a website listing?

Reform Baptist churches that are looking for pastors.

I Do not know of one.

Yeah, I don't know of one either.

The only thing that I know of is that Even after his entering into eternity with

Christ Johnny Farisi's website is still available Faris

Dot -com Farese Dot -com which has a reform Baptist Church

directory.

I don't know how updated or complete it is.

But he could at least your Michael you could at least go to that and contact the

churches on that list and Hopefully you'll be able to find out something that way.

We have Richard in Palmdale, California.

Can you tell us about the Master of Divinity program?

Do you have any idea who will be on the faculty and what are the internships and.

Apprenticeships.

Well, the Master of Divinity degree is the the standard prepper

study in the original languages of Scripture because we believe it's very important For

ministers

to be

directly

converted.

It

happened.

Why did it

happen?

Where did it happen?

But church history is only an introduction that leads to his

see how.

There's also

sort

of

the nuts

and bolts in

their gifts

that will give them some

understanding of

Evangelism.

And how should we lead the church forward?

It really it's it's a minimum of three years.

Some some men find it

necessary

preparation and the tools that they will need for a lifelong

Ministry and all things

being equal.

He could have 40 years of pastoral ministry in front of him.

And he needs that careful and thorough Preparation in the same way that if you went to a

heart surgeon You want

you want a man who's well

trained and well of individuals.

To know? the whole system of Christian theology to know the Old Testament to know the New Testament to know the

languages to know how to talk and to be able to Bring all

in a form that will be healthy people.

In fact, you perhaps you could continue answering Richards question after the break if anybody else would like to join us

as well.

Email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

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We're back now to our discussion with dr. Jim Renahan on the Institute

of Reform Baptist Studies Seminary and if you'd like to join us on the air of the question our email address is chris

arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris arnzen at gmail .com and I don't know if you had completed your answer to rich

in Palmdale, California but he was asking not only about the Master of Divinity program, but he was asking about the

faculty and internships and apprenticeships.

Yeah.

You know, we

oh you can

name my name.

We.

Have about 20 names on our list.

I'll tell you some of the will be teaching

Fred Malone.

Dr. Fred Malone.

Oh, yeah.

Very well -known

hermeneutics in Scripture New Testament.

Jeff and Lynn blad who is almost at

the end of his piece

white.

And be a visiting professor for us.

Oh great.

I'll be teaching some

class.

Great.

Steve Martin will be our Dean.

Will also have some responsibilities in teaching.

We're going to develop a first year course.

An introduction to

theology course.

Clinton, Louisiana.

We

also and

We're hopeful that they will be able to come and participate with us.

They've given us very positive signs to say they'd be happy to if it can fit

into their schedule to come and teach courses.

A visiting professor and You know, I can't talk of names that

everyone would recognize and they'd say wow that was that was for you.

So we're we're really trying to put together a first -rate Faculty men who are qualified

academically, but also who have demonstrated by their lives and by their scholarship their commitment to the Lord Jesus

Church.

Do you want to follow up on that.

Do you want me to go ahead with the internship question?

Oh, yeah, you could go ahead with that.

I'll get to RJ and and White Plains in a little bit, but go ahead.

Yeah, we but there's

only so

much that

they can

do

on a weekly basis.

Where during the summers they can go to a church and spend six or eight or even ten weeks.

Learning directly from the pastors of those churches 40 or 50 hours a week.

We've sent men said someone this past Singapore for an

internship.

We've Africa and I it

really is a

publishing

them laying out the setting up the

Apprenticeships are similar but slightly different over the last oh, I don't know maybe up

to ten years as Men have graduated from IRBS and Westminster Seminary.

Many of them have been offered a one -year Relationship with a church where they

go.

They live in that church and they actually an extended period of time in

which they can learn from The elders of that church about pastoral ministry and we think

that that's our.

I think that that's a great idea.

So we want to try to and develop relations

to take in a man For one year or more.

We actually have one of our graduates Is just completing the first year of a three -year formal internship

in In a church, we'd love to see that develop

one of our convict

decades into

the more

that he can do

in terms of Studies and the more that he can do in terms of the

more beneficial.

So we're working for

ages

have had young men.

They write to me afterwards and they say we didn't know what to expect going into this.

But it has been a real blessing to our church.

We loved so -and -so and We'd love to have another intern if you can send him to us, so so

that's that's the goal.

It's not just to have a really thorough going academic.

Real life hands -on experience under the supervision of wise and experience

great.

Well, thank you rich and keep listening to iron sharpens iron and.

Keep spreading the word about the program in Palmdale, California and beyond.

We have RJ in White Plains, New York.

Who asks will there be any?

Restrictions upon what students you accept to the seminary.

Can a Presbyterian for instance.

Become a student there or perhaps a New Covenant theologian

Baptist

man

will need to have a bat older students 35

and

over

are

sometimes

and

even

you

know

I.

And what's interesting

to

have well happened

to know that there's already a couple of well -established and very large schools.

But it could happen that somebody decides that they want to come and study with us like I say

if they meet the

now.

I know that you as the vast majority if not all reformed Baptists

Are a complementarian in your understanding of gender roles.

Would would there be any circumstances where a woman?

Be able to study there.

There may be women who have no interest at all in becoming Elders or

pastors or anything that they believe or a complementarian would believe violates

the scriptural roles for genders, but they may just want to learn they may just want to be

more effective on Teaching the younger women in the church.

They they may just want to know the Lord and that scriptures more deeply.

Is there any Avenue where women can enter into the student body there.

Yeah, well after the the vote and so a lot

of the I can't make any I'll

give you a couple of things.

However here at West been really useful program and that is that the

wives Permitted to

attend class it would be

to our but that gives the wife of

the

likewise.

And and we haven't even walked on this.

I think it would be benefit variety

of purposes.

It would not be too challenging and I can imagine that.

It may

be

that we

would want to do

that.

I try to at least look at and and hopefully develop a secondary degree and women could be admitted to that.

Hey, well, by the way, thank you.

RJ and White Plains, New York keep listening to iron sharpens iron and spreading the word up there in

White Plains, New York and beyond.

We have CJ and Lindenhurst Long Island, New York who says I know that they are in the minority today.

But there have been Baptists throughout the centuries Who theologically opposed the

very existence of seminaries and Sunday schools for that matter because they're not explicitly taught in the

Bible.

What is your biblical answer to men such as this?

Albeit there being a minority.

Yeah.

That I think that that's a simplistic reading of the Bible.

I've recently written A brief article that

oh, well, but my my answer would be

would follow two lines.

The first is in 2nd

Timothy 1 and 2 and that

that train other I

would want to

People can find it.

Oh, well, they could they could listen to my sermon on second

the other the other way.

Are you sure?

That the idea in

the Old Testament, but it is that these

were some

Formative institution where older men would would were gathered together

simply

Israel that developed

or at least it was.

And the Apostle Paul was a graduate

in Acts chapter

2 when Paul is riot

He was trying to

connect with them

and he presents to them his credentials his purposes.

That he not be killed at the moment that the riot not get out of hand and he not be killed.

And he wants to open the door free.

That he says is you know that I was trained up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel.

You know, we ought to ask the question Why was

Paul and he

was able to

see Christ there?

So I would argue that there is an example

that.

Reverend Taylor has a comment or question.

Would you see the same thing in the New Testament in the school of Tyrannus?

Well, I think the school of Tyrannus was just a that Paul used that facility.

Yeah, but you know, you know what led me to down this road to think in this way.

It's actually the West in the form of present

but in one of them if they have a paragraph of schools and they

cite and then I

went to on

the earlier one in the book of Acts

when he tells the And then in

Acts 20, but I went to all the old comment how

Gamaliel is present the prophets

putting all of this

together.

It's the idea of a formal training

before we go to the break.

I'm gonna read you a question and then perhaps you can mull it over during the last break that we're having here

and then you Could answer it when we return.

Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania Says do you agree with the Presbyterians who

insist that their ministers have a seminary?

Degree before they are ordained into the pastorate it seems to me that they are insisting

on something that the Bible does not require and We'll have you answer that when we return to

from our final break if anybody else would like to join us on the air.

Now is your time to do it before we run out of time?

That's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com chris Arn z n at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back after these messages with dr. Jim Renningham.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arns.

And if you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours with about 25 minutes to go is Dr. James M

Renahan Dean and professor of historical theology at the Institute of Reform Baptist Studies and we are

discussing Updates on the new seminary that has blossomed out of that if you'd like to join us on

the air.

Our email address is Chris Arns in at gmail .com.

Chris Arns in at gmail .com and if you intend to ask a question of dr Renahan, I would do so right

now because we are running out of time before the break as you may remember.

Dr Renahan Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania wanted to know if you agreed with

the Presbyterian understanding that only men who have a seminary education are

qualified for the office of pastor in the church or at least a teaching elder or ruling

elder and.

Of course, I'm not saying that all Presbyterian denominations agree on that.

But the ones that I am familiar with do have that restriction.

And what is your opinion on that?

Yeah, um Arnie,

I would say no, I don't

agree with

it for the 20th first

getting out and

service life and

gifts and.

For that for that reason.

Thank You Arnie and please keep listening to iron sharpens iron radio and spreading the word in Perry County, Pennsylvania and beyond.

Well, I know that you've probably already touched on this to some extent.

But what do the scriptures teach us about Christ's gifts to the church?

Well,

and he

spent

a lot of

my time in

pastoral ministry.

And I'm I've

tried to help people.

You ought to ask and answer the question What do I believe.

And the pastors that Christ

gives

to

the church

are the gifts that

help now.

BB in

Cumberland

County,

Pennsylvania.

Says With the exception of your seminary and a tiny handful of

other faithful seminaries.

Isn't entering seminary actually quite a dangerous thing since the majority of them seem

seem to have caved in to modern humanism.

Well, I'm glad

that she

made the exceptions professed.

Well, thank you BB

and continue to.

Listen to iron sharpens iron and spread the word about the program in Cumberland County Pennsylvania and

beyond and How can churches cultivate men

for the gospel ministry, oh.

That yeah, that's a good question.

I would

say that that

and I think

it's simply ask them if

their son.

What would you like to do.

Some of those young men will say yes, you know.

And then

parent

on the

Lord's Day in

minister.

Either

he was in

Pennsylvania

or somewhere in

the south.

Maybe Virginia.

And he made an interesting comment.

Every church has to take from another church a man to be its pastor under normal circumstances.

Under normal circumstances.

What.

What we receive?

We ought to be willing to give to.

They need to look outward.

They need to pray for

any that that show Godliness in their lives.

That maybe begin to

shut is watching how they pray publicly in

prayer meeting.

Do they have

identify those

guys.

It is in the

best now.

What is a call to the ministry.

I've been hosting this program since 2006

With the exception of a several -year hiatus I went on.

But I have been in contact with a number of people throughout the years.

Who are women?

Who believe either they or a woman they know has a call to the ministry and I say well I don't believe that

she could have a call to the ministry because it's something that the New Testament prohibits and they will

point to very Subjective ethereal kind of things like well, she believes she has the

call She she has the anointing and all that kind of thing.

How do you turn it into a concrete? Objective thing rather than things

involving subjective opinions.

Yeah, that's

that.

And the internal

call is what is something like what you just described in

First Timothy 3 1 Paul says if any man desires the off

interest he uses two different Greek

words.

There is a second one

more commonly used in the New Testament for the for lust.

Generally, it's in a bad.

He desires.

He lusts out.

Defined as God would

define it may

come in.

Persons who for one reason or another are not quality

may be that

talk to people.

They'll will bore them to death.

Spurgeon has some hilarious stuff.

So you have you have you do have that subject?

But you also have the outward called the external call which is the evaluation of the church.

That's much more objective and it is in the external call that we have

publicly or he's in a home situation.

That is compromised he may want to be

but he doesn't meet

or.

Do you

think

sometimes

we men?

Make a huge mistake when we start giving unbiblical reasons as to why

women are prohibited from the ministry like It is not in their genetics and all these kind of things

that sometimes people say because you could have a woman who technically is

More skilled at all of the gifts required of a pastor and preacher and

teacher.

She can be more Equipped with those traits and skills than her own pastor,

but that does not make her qualified for the ministry nonetheless.

Yeah, it's it's the Word of God, right?

And can you suggest any resources for young men

considering the ministry?

Um City gave

on Friday and he often came in knowing that he needed to

be a little bit

upbeat preachers

last year.

Well, let's see.

We have.

I Have Alan Harmon right here on the banner of truth website.

Let's see what he has.

Let's see what they have here.

Well, I'll let you know if I come up with a specific book right now.

It's just giving me articles and so on.

Okay.

Just a curiosity.

What do you think of a book that has become somewhat of a classic spanning denominational lines

on?

The eldership.

The book by Alexander Strauch.

Biblical eldership.

Alan Harmon's book is called preparation for ministry.

Okay, I Used my

internet really

don't

like the good

things.

Nothing insightful there.

The bad thing

he advocates position and

I think that that's he

never deals with.

And he doesn't wrestle with

the brethren approach.

Now.

What is the role

better in other books?

What is the role of the church in a man's education?

Obviously the the primary preaching and teaching that goes on in a worship service.

A Pastor has to be careful not to go above.

And beyond the ability of the general gathered worship of

men and women and children.

Where he is teaching beyond their their grasp.

Going over their heads as it were.

But at the same time shouldn't there be a more in -depth teaching.

Available in the church and so on.

Oh.

Absolutely. Yes Russian actually

recognizes that

in chapter 20.

And I'd really like

you to now.

Summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners

Before we leave this program today.

Yeah, um, you know, we we want to build this seminary for the sake of the gospel.

And so I want to remind people that trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ Receiving the gift

of return, but

I hope that visit our website.

They will look at

our face make many of our announce if

they use Twitter under

slash 1689

Facebook page at Institute and

then the

Twitter help them.

One of the

things that

we are trying to do as low as

We'll be offering of

outstanding.

Yes, and I'm assuming that You would love to hear from

Benevolent philanthropists out there who absolutely, I

Mean tell our listeners exactly what your needs are and obviously you can have a general need for

finances.

But anything else or including finances just let our listeners know exactly what they're to do.

Okay.

Well said

we don't want students

reducing the costs as much as we possibly can.

Well at the same time we want payable wage.

We want our men to build and so that means we have to meet the

budget and we and largely that's who understand.

Everybody is to use smile dot amazon .com.

If you go to that web go to smile dot amazon

.com.

Register your support for

the

Institute.

We will be the

one.

Well, I want to thank you

so much.

Dr. Jim Renahan for being our guest again on iron sharpens iron radio.

I look forward to your return to the program and I want to remind everybody that the website

Where dr. Renahan can be contacted at is IRB s seminary org.

IRB s Seminary org.

Remember there's two s's in a row there IRB s seminary org and I.

Hope that I meet many of you some for the for the first time and some perhaps old friends

Next week at the faithful shepherd pastors retreat May 15th through the 17th and Harvey

Cedars, New Jersey.

And if you'd like to register for that or find out more information go to Alliance net org.

Alliance net org click on events and then click on the faithful shepherd Retreat.

I want to thank you again. Dr. Renahan for being my guest.

I want to thank the Reverend buzz Taylor for being my co -host.

I want to thank all of you who listened especially those who took the time to write in questions today.

And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives That Jesus Christ is a far

greater Savior than you are a sinner.