Dead Men Walking Podcast Greg Moore, Jason Hamlin & Savannah Marten Episode 4

Dead Men Walking

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Here we go ready Exploring theology doctrine and all of the fascinating subjects in between Broadcasting from an undisclosed location dead men walking starts now

00:21

Well, hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of dead men walking. I am your host

00:27

Greg Moore I have a couple people in studio with me today, and I am excited to get started before we do that I just want to say thank you for everyone who has been reaching out who's been liking our

00:37

Facebook page following us on Instagram Checking out our YouTube videos always very important It's only by people like you sharing what we do that we can bring glory to God So make sure you follow us on Instagram like those

00:50

YouTube videos and like that Facebook page So now that we got the business out of the way there.

00:56

I have Savannah Martin in studio Savannah. How are you? I'm doing great.

01:02

But before we get to her we have one of our favorites back Jason Hamlin Howdy, everybody

01:08

Jason. I think he is now I've kind of drafted him into being our co -host I'm in I think

01:14

I'm just gonna invite you every episode sit in sometimes. I'll just stay over here and not say a word

01:19

Right, you know But let's jump back to Savannah Sam Savannah. Why don't you give us a little bit of a bio of yourself?

01:27

I know you and I we've been friends for quite a while. I respect what you do You're a sister in the

01:33

Lord that just has a heart for the kingdom in the gospel And I thought it'd be very important to bring you on and kind of talk about what your role is

01:41

Professionally right now, but first maybe give us a little bit of testimony. I always like to have the listeners

01:48

Hear how the Lord brought you to the place of salvation And a little bit of that backstory feel free to take 30 seconds or 10 minutes

01:57

I know it's all good stuff when we're talking about the Lord so once you give a little little bit of that background for us for sure, so I First of all, thanks for asking.

02:06

I love hearing salvation stories I'm always reminded of The scripture and Psalms that says, you know

02:15

Don't don't stray too far or don't lose sight of your own salvation And so I think when we hear

02:23

People's salvation stories it reminds us of our own Beginning and I think the further we get away from that point the more important it is to hear those.

02:33

Yeah stories That's good. And so I grew up in pretty traditional

02:41

Midwest American home Proud tea party home.

02:46

My great -grandfather was tea party Original tea party grandpa Tea party.

02:53

My grandfather is actually diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. He passed away a couple years ago

02:59

But on the day that he was diagnosed He actually left to the doctor's office and went to a tea party rally.

03:06

Well, and then my dad also very much part of the tea party and So I grew up in kind of this very traditional like Midwest sure

03:21

Patriot very much, you know valuing America and One of the interesting parts of that as I think we see

03:32

Especially in our demographic that that also embodied this, you know if you were in a home like that you were also just a

03:39

Christian and that was you were just as much of a Christian as you were an American and those kind of two things were

03:47

Interchangeable and so we went to church. That was the right thing to do My week, right?

03:53

Yeah You know all the time and it was really interesting, you know, and they're very open about their their own journey you know, my my mom was an alcoholic when

04:04

I was growing up, okay, and You know, so definitely one of those families where we looked great from the outside, but things were

04:12

Not super great. That's a lot of families on the inside You know, but a much, you know a part of the church and I have these like snapshots where I can see the

04:21

Lord's Faithfulness and really at the at the kind of foundation of it was my

04:28

Nana and Papa my dad's parents Their faith you can see that now

04:35

Throughout my whole entire family. They have like 20 some grandkids and great -grandkids and I remember going over and if we memorized the

04:43

Ten Commandments We would get a sticker and I remember laying under, you know, my

04:49

Papa's piano He was a pianist and a percussionist and singing, you know you know all of these classic hymns and so even though there wasn't any sort of depth to it the thing that I can appreciate about growing up is

05:06

How much the Word of God and the statutes of God and Morality was still infused into my life

05:14

Yeah, but the unfortunate reality because there was a lack of depth I mean one of the things that I think is is something

05:21

I'm passionate about now is you know I was a part of a youth group for Almost my whole entire high school and I don't

05:29

I have no valid memory of ever opening up my Bible And I feel like I had a great youth pastor my last couple of years who would really challenge us, but I still don't have these like Vivid memories where you know, we're a part of you know communities now where that's expected of our kids

05:50

Sure, you know, you know and our of course our teenagers and so it's just this really interesting dynamic where?

05:57

It was there and you could see where the seeds of faith were planted, but when I left to come to college

06:03

I mean it was really a house of cards at that point because it was you know My parents faith or my church's faith or you know, we went to the like hip

06:12

Methodist Church, you know That was in the center of town And they have Methodist I think the interesting thing about it is

06:25

In it, you know my own, you know opinions aside. I think unfortunately what was really

06:31

Popular in that kind of culture and in the town that I grew up in is that it really was like a social club and and Again, I I can see

06:41

God's faithfulness in still using, you know, my grandparents and my youth pastor

06:47

Through that but when I came to college because there was no personal foundation.

06:53

I mean 24 hours in and I lit that Ground where'd you go to college?

07:04

I University of Toledo. Yep, and Again I mean I just when we talk about you know the parable of Where the seeds are falling, you know

07:15

I can see that in my own life because there wasn't any sort of depth of you know Soil and relationship with the

07:21

Lord or spiritual discipline in my life I mean I had this newfound freedom and zero clue of my own value worth and identity

07:29

Yeah, and went bananas. I mean in every sense of the word drugs alcohol.

07:36

Sure sex, I mean you Name it because I I was so hungry for I was hungry for Purpose and I wanted to know who

07:51

I was and I was looking at this landscape around me for all of this direction

07:56

You know and it gave me what I was looking for and you know, we'll talk a little bit later about what

08:02

I do now But God actually totally redeemed that experience. Yeah, and it's even given me

08:08

Ministry that's not only impacting hundreds of girls at the University of Toledo, but now is actually impacting college girls the nation and so He has been so faithful.

08:20

It's a miracle that I'm alive. It's a miracle that there weren't drastic

08:26

You know damage done to my body and so in 2009 2009

08:40

I Was starting to get really sick and I was working retail. I'd actually

08:46

Dropped out of my fifth my spring semester of my fifth year of college Okay, so I'd never ever ever recommend any

08:53

I have like 12 credit No, no, I just took my time a lot of people go to college for five years

09:02

Richard I feel like if you make it out in four years, it's a miracle.

09:08

I was also three and a half this guy Yeah, I Don't know how

09:18

I did it. I'm not the student. Oh you guys have me all be you know I was like one and a half semesters of a community college.

09:25

Yeah, like no I'm out. I feel like I'm not talking about what I like If I stayed here, it would have been over.

09:32

I would not I would almost who I've rather it been a year and a half to have

09:40

You know five years Hanging over my head with like 12 credit hours left

09:46

It's actually one of my top bucket list items right now It's as soon as you get back to sleeping because I don't think you sleep every time you're doing something

09:54

You should go just get those extra 12. I mean you're right down the road But I know you don't have you know, 30 seconds together the last 10 years of your life

10:02

But you know, I'll just tell you guys this all All of my college credits didn't come in that three and a half years though I needed biology for about 12 years

10:14

I finally went to the University of Phoenix. I got that last three It all worked out in the end, yeah, so 2009

10:23

I had started to get really sick, you know wasn't taking care of myself

10:29

Physically had struggled with eating disorder You know the drug and alcohol use

10:35

I was working retail. I actually Left school debt free because I was working 40 plus hours a week plus going to school

10:45

Well was in a sorority And so my lifestyle was just so Gnarly that I was my body was shutting down so I Had I was really sick one day.

11:01

I remember I was working at the journeys at Ball and Timbers and I Was feeling so sick.

11:11

So I left I you know Walked my team through like what they had to do to close.

11:17

I was managing at the point went home and I I I thought

11:22

I was dying. Yeah, I remember laying on my bathroom floor in my apartment and thinking

11:30

I Am dying. This is it. This is it and here's the like my last shift at journeys

11:36

I'm going out and here's the crazy part I was actually thinking about this on my way over here to record this here.

11:45

You know your Your podcast is deadman walking. Yeah, and I think it means something different But for me,

11:53

I mean really I was a dead person walking and it wasn't just a physical death Like I was dead in Every sense of the word.

12:02

I mean, I was spiritually a Relationship where we both were being unfaithful.

12:09

I Know my friends were just people that I saw between the hours of like 10 p .m

12:14

And 2 a .m. And there was all you know, always drugs and alcohol involved in it. There was no substance

12:20

I had left, you know college at that point. I mean I was so dead So I'm like I need to go to the hospital like something is seriously wrong with me

12:29

So I start calling people in my phone. I call my boyfriend. He's not picking up the phone

12:34

I start calling some of my friends. They're like, well, I mean, can you take yourself? I'm like I'm laying on my bed

12:41

Yeah, you want me to drive myself I'm like someone's like well, can you just call an ambulance

12:47

Wow, now I'm having like this mental breakdown because I'm realizing like wow the people in my life actually don't care

12:55

Yeah, so I had at this point not talked to my parents in probably over six or seven months

13:04

Like I had just pushed anything out of my life. That was healthy. Okay, and I called my mom and my mom and I just didn't have a super great

13:15

Relationship at that point a lot of because I had you know Pushed her away because I hadn't dealt with my own her in pain from you know her struggling and her addiction she actually has been sober for Quite some time but I was yeah.

13:29

Oh my gosh. It's such a miracle. I had been harboring You know anger and resentment

13:36

But at this point I'm dying on my bed and what do you do when you don't feel well you call mom called mom and She said

13:45

I am on my way. So they don't live they live about an hour and 20 minutes away from here

13:51

And so here's this, you know woman that I have not talked to in months and and she's like I'm on my way

13:58

Which I feel like is the first sign of like Redemption and where God was going.

14:04

Okay in my life Because it was the first time that I felt like someone was showing like unconditional

14:11

Yeah, love for me, which my parents had shown that to me my whole entire life. I just wanted it from other people

14:18

So I hang up the phone and I'm literally laying there and I I have this thought in my head and it's

14:25

God You might as well just take me like there's nothing Worth Anything here so you might as well just take me and then

14:35

I close my eyes and the next thing I remember My mom is standing over me and she actually put me in her car and drove me back to my hometown

14:42

Where I got some medical attention and ended up staying there. I lost my job You can't not this was going in in November and in retail you can't take

14:52

Remember, I worked retail for eight years. Yeah, and so they let me go and I Stayed there

15:01

Healed it turned out that I had actually developed colitis just because of how much garbage and how

15:07

I was treating What is that? Is that something in the gut microbes or something intestinal? Yeah, it's gross.

15:12

It's all the gross And your body was just like literally shutting down. Okay. Yeah, I mean between you need to slow down drugs alcohol

15:21

Yeah, you know just not taking care of myself. My body was Yeah responding and really crying out for help so I decided that I was gonna take the rest of the year

15:33

So the end of November in December and I was gonna stay with my parents and I would come back at the beginning of the year

15:39

So for Christmas and we joke about it now I've fantastic relationship with my parents now awesome was that they got me a

15:47

Bible in this Devotional okay, and we joke now that it was they were like, this is this is it like if this doesn't do it

15:59

So I get this new job and I'm gonna start like the second week in January and the

16:05

New Year is approaching And I still don't have a relationship with the Lord and I'm like, oh I got to get back to Toledo It's about to be

16:11

New Year's Eve. Like I don't want to be stuck here with my family On New Year's Eve, so No joke.

16:18

I drove back to Toledo I hadn't seen anybody and just showed up at the bar on New Year's Eve and drank until like like 8 a .m.

16:27

The next morning, yeah, and Then was like hungover for a couple days and then

16:33

I'm starting this new job So it's it's got to start the year off, right? Yeah It's January 4th and I'll never forget this it's

16:43

January 4th and I Get up cuz I'm starting this job and I look over and on my side table is the

16:50

Bible in this devotional and my thought was and you'll think this is so funny because it's totally my personality was

16:57

Why open it up and it's like a daily devotional. Okay, and I'm like, I'm four days behind Like I might as well not even start this.

17:06

Yeah, I'm already four days behind That's so that is totally I'll just read it

17:11

So I read this devotional and it's about confessing our need for trust in in Jesus and the power of Where we can be so stubborn and so prideful that it's hard for us as people to confess

17:27

That we can't do this and then we actually have to depend on him so I get my car and I'm driving to work and I'm thinking about this and all of a sudden my gas light comes on and I start melting down because I haven't worked in Months, and I don't have any money in my bank account.

17:45

Yeah, and my car is on empty so I get to the office and I'm literally having Like a meltdown cuz

17:51

I'm like, I I don't know how I'm gonna do this I'm like, do I ask them for a pay advance? Like what am I gonna do about this?

17:58

Do I call my parents? Did you pull a stepbrothers? Did you say could we ever can I my two weeks vacation? I didn't know

18:04

I was thinking about it. And then all this I mean would have been a good idea

18:13

Can I have my check please I Was so desperate. So all of a sudden

18:19

I'm sitting at this office. It was an office job. I was a secretary and This devotional like comes to my mind

18:27

I'm like fine God I trust you right like Eric like I was

18:32

Like now it's almost terrifying for me to like think that I ever Yeah, like approach the

18:39

Lord like that. Yeah, so and then like as the next like 30 minutes like passed it became this like oh

18:49

God, like I I actually need you right to stop realization Yeah, so get to the end of the day get in my car if you guys ever been so low on gas

18:58

Your car is like shaking Shutters So I drive

19:06

My car is literally shaking So I live in one of those apartment complexes that has those like outside mailboxes where it's like everybody's mailbox

19:14

Yeah, you drive up and there's like row here and then a row here and the row here So I drive up and I'm like, oh, I haven't checked my mail since I've been back in town.

19:21

So I open it up It's like a little box and there's so much in it. Yeah, like all the Arby's coupons

19:27

Like what you you were running out of gas and you stopped at the mailbox I did Wow, okay, so I pull every one to clarify

19:37

Well, I pull everything out and I'm like going through it and I get to this envelope.

19:43

That's from the police department Okay Always good news back in my drug and drinking days from the police

19:52

I turn around and I rip it open and I pull it out and it is a check for $400 and you know how on checks that'll have like the check and then the like bottom page tells you like What it's for sure.

20:04

It's like perforated. I'm not even joking you the like memo on the bottom is over overpaid parking ticket

20:13

You over paid up $400 Absolutely, not.

20:18

I didn't so I'm literally staring at this Like check and the only way that I can describe it is all this sudden like there was someone else in the car with me

20:30

Wow, and I'm I'm like sitting here and I I mean it

20:36

Yeah I mean the only way that I can describe it and I know that you guys understand this is that Jesus was in the car

20:41

With me in that moment. Yeah, and I realized how true The words that I had read in that devotional

20:51

Work you went from an intellectual knowledge of who Jesus was to a spiritual Understanding of who

20:58

Christ was isn't that a gorgeous thing? Yeah, it was yeah I mean, hey man, they can't see me, but you guys can see me still to this day

21:06

I mean 12 years later still get choked up over the reality that in my sin

21:14

And in my rebellion, yes, like he stepped over all of that junk

21:20

To like come sit in my car and I think the reason that I'm so passionate about people

21:26

Knowing how much God loves them is Because I've witnessed that like the

21:32

God who had way bigger things To be concerned about like I screwed it up.

21:39

Yeah, no one else screwed it up. I screwed my body up I screwed my college career up. I screwed my relationships up like I did that you know and there's all these other issues like going on in the world and this

21:52

God who is So infinite and so holy and so big Cared enough about me to step into my car on that day and say you don't have to live like this, right?

22:03

So I literally have this like powerful like 20 -minute encounter with Jesus In your car that's shuddering from fumes.

22:11

So You stopped yeah So I go upstairs and I'm sitting on the floor in my apartment and I'm like No one is gonna believe what just happened.

22:24

So I'm scrolling through my phone had a BlackBerry by the way And I had

22:35

I think I had one of those for about five days and I was like No Crazy so I'm scrolling through my phone and I'm like I who is even gonna

22:46

Like this is psych ward So wait, I'm still stuck on the $400 check.

22:52

So where did it come from? Was it a clerical error to this day? Do you think I called them? Didn't call them

23:00

Well, Savannah, we have a surprise for you And they want to speak no you know and I mean it was one of those things where you know,

23:10

I have never been someone that's like I believe that like Jesus covered up as the like police and like put the check in my but what

23:17

I do What I do realize happened in that moment was this very divine understanding

23:23

Oh, absolutely how much he he does care and you know He used that situation to show me like when you confess that you're weak and you do put your trust in me

23:34

I am your provider. Absolutely. I'm gonna you know, and so I've got I've got 50 of those stories. Yeah, absolutely wild So you're sitting up there and you're like no one's gonna believe

23:43

I'm gonna believe me that this happened So I believe just give me $400 and I get to I get to my my high school like childhood

23:53

Best friend Danny who I've not talked to at this point since high school.

23:58

Okay, and I'm now five plus six almost yeah six years Outside of this relationship.

24:05

Yeah, so I'm like, oh Danny loved Jesus Like she was my like Jesus loving friend like evangelized to me like she was in church

24:14

If I was in church five times a week, she was in church 20 times Okay, like president of the Bible Club everything. So I'm like,

24:20

I'm gonna call Danny So I called Danny and the phones ringing and she picks up the phone and I'm like Danny I don't know if you remember me

24:28

Savannah and she's like, of course, I remember you So I tell her what happened and she's like this is incredible like I'm so excited for you

24:35

So we like start chatting and she's like where do you live now? And I'm like, I live in Toledo And she's like that's wild.

24:42

I live in Toledo. I'm like what where she like tells me where she lives. No joke

24:47

We lived in in the apartment complexes that were facing each other and our doors

24:54

Literally faced like the same direction really So, yeah, no clue on earth like we completely lost touch and we're living across the street from each other

25:02

Yeah, essentially across looking at each other's house every morning when you go to work. Oh god is so cool yeah, so we go out to lunch that day and She's like, hey,

25:12

I'm having a prayer meeting at my house tonight. Do you want to come and I was like I just got a check for $400

25:25

That's quick cultish right, you know and having to like put myself back cuz now I'm like, yeah

25:30

I'm at every prayer meeting but like remembering, you know Understanding what that was. So then

25:36

I get home and I'm like, well, I can't go to the bar like And I or can you?

25:43

In my head, I couldn't go to the bar and I was bored and I was like, well, maybe I'll just go over there so I go over there and Knock on the door and she answers and it's hysterical to me now

25:55

It was terrifying in the moment So I like walk in and there's worship music playing and there are people that are literally like laying on the floor like muffled like in the carpet like crying and some people were like Praying and some people were saying things in a language that I didn't understand right and I'm like What's going on this is not the real deal

26:24

Here so I dove into the deep and I have my like Bible which is so funny because when people hear that they're like Your testimony in your life makes so much sense because I really did

26:34

So I'm holding my Bible and I like sink down next to a bookshelf and I'm like what in the world?

26:40

Yeah, so I I do that really a spiritual thing and I open my Bible straight down the middle

26:47

Which and like off just a little bit which happens to be Psalm 139 I was gonna say 119

26:52

But yeah, it's like right in there. I was gonna say Obadiah Obadiah opens It's crazy for me cuz no matter when

27:08

I open the Bible it's always Romans 9 for some reason No So Psalm 139 which is so Beautiful and I can see again

27:21

God's faithfulness and his hand on my life because that has so shaped Who I am and what his purpose, you know and calling, you know for my life was and I start reading about this

27:31

God who? Knew me in my mother's womb who you know had great value

27:36

Knew the thoughts that I had before one of them ever came to be who saw me when I had made my bit

27:41

You know my bed in the pit of hell, which I had, you know saw my coming in my going

27:47

And I was like man, this is this is what I've been longing for right and so I actually just right there just like God like I I Want to do this forever.

27:59

Like I want this to be the foundation of My life and I went back to my apartment that night and I broke it off with my boyfriend and I Prayed and told

28:14

God I said if I cut every You know bad influence out of my life

28:21

I'm willing to burn every bridge that you're asking me to But I want family and I want real community and it's so cool because when

28:31

Ryan and I got married right Ryan's my husband When Ryan and I got married he

28:37

We had this like really crazy moment where we had over 300 people at our wedding. We got married two years after That encounter with the

28:46

Lord. Okay, and The majority of those people were all people I had met in the last two years over 200 or over 300 and so God had so right answered that prairie gave me community and friends and I haven't you know looked back since two days later.

29:04

I met Joe Liggett at a bowling alley Okay, and wait two days after you got married or two days after I got saved

29:11

I met Joe Liggett Oh, yeah, so Danny had actually been a part of the

29:17

Ember leadership at that time. So she caught she she was so kind I mean, she just took me in on the wing and like anywhere she was going

29:24

She's like I'm gonna take you with me. So she calls me one day She's like I'm gonna bowling alley. All my friends are gonna be there So I'm like sure

29:30

I'll go go and it's the like hood bowling alley jugs

29:35

Yeah. Yeah, so I'm at jugs. I don't know anybody and all of a sudden this guy

29:40

With like a like tight t -shirt and a hat is literally in Danny's face

29:46

Like yelling at her about like some thing that they had talked about and there was

29:52

Joe Liggett Okay, and like that is all Joe Liggett has ever been Sure You know that person and so I went to Ember Just that next week and I mean it

30:04

I just haven't looked back. Yeah Wow, what a what a what a cool testimony to and it's it's so awesome because You said you said something so key when you said and I know that you'll relate to this

30:17

Because I've had those same experiences and I think we all have those who've been truly saved understand there's a paradigm shift not only in your mind, but in your spirit and Jeez, I could fill up an hour of just crazy things that happen to me

30:31

Even from just bringing certain people into my life for a period of time that I've then since not even talked to Got its guy the

30:39

Lord just brought this guy into my life for like a year and we spent every day together Just worshiping and praising and doing stuff and then that that season was over and I've maybe talked to him twice in 15 years

30:49

Still good friends still, you know, but it was just that time, you know where the Lord will do that I remember sitting in church and I hadn't the last $20 on me to my name.

30:58

No bank account. No car No job no place to live nothing and I'm in church. I had a place to live

31:04

I just moved in back in with my parents And I'm at a church service and I have $20 in my pocket and I hear that wasn't audible out loud

31:13

But it was definitely an impression from the Holy Spirit that just said put that $20 in the you know

31:18

And then in the tithe and in the back or even passing anything around and I went on that's nuts.

31:23

That's crazy It's my last $20 I'm just thinking that cuz that's the way I grew up a group in a very legalistic Church give your 10 %

31:28

Always did the church, right? Well, technically you wouldn't have had to have given the whole $20 Well, no, that's what

31:34

I was saying. He was telling me to give it all Yeah, and I'm in that's back when I could probably make $20, you know stretch two weeks

31:41

And I said I'm not doing that and then again do it if you truly trust in me

31:46

You're gonna do it now. So now I'm like arguing like what so what God you're like just the God that wants my money

31:52

I grew up with that kind of God He's like no But you know put it in there and then in the minute

31:57

I did it and walked out and put it in there There was like a release in my spirit of everything that you own

32:03

Belongs to me Your money your life your time. I don't need your money. I don't want your money. I want your obedience

32:10

Anyway, whoa. Okay. Well now I'm broke. Thanks God literally after that conversation in my head. I'm walking out to the parking lot

32:15

I see this guy back in my drug -fueled days Which would only been a couple months prior, but I hadn't seen him in three or four years.

32:22

He comes up to me What are you doing here? I don't know. What are you doing here? We're talking for many goes man I've been feeling guilty remember that time that you you know

32:30

You hooked me up with some of that stuff and I said, nope I was high and drunk and wild for almost a decade.

32:36

There's a lot of stuff. I don't remember Well, I owe you a hundred bucks and I voted to you for six years here I want to give it to you.

32:42

I went the Lord bring paying me back with drug money And the Lord said take it

32:47

I take care of I take care of my children Wasn't about the money now you got paid back fivefold from what you gave but I want obedience and I saw whoa

32:57

And you know, we have we all have those stories. I think I think and it's it's just one of those things

33:03

We're like we talked about even a few episodes ago Romans 8 28 is such a great verse for me because it says the

33:10

Lord works all things out for his good and his glory You know according to his purpose for those who love him.

33:16

Yeah, it has served me well to understand that he is my provider And I am a steward and you know

33:23

Ryan and I live in a way where we understand, you know, even the paychecks that we get from the places of Employment where you know, we're working

33:35

Really aren't from those places. It's really God providing through that means and so we don't ever

33:42

You know we don't cross the line of being the provider and When God calls us to take time off or to switch jobs or if there's transition

33:51

We just are like it is what it is because God is our provider And so we don't have to ascribe energy in that direction what we then do

34:01

Ascribe lots of energy and is understanding our obedience as the steward

34:06

Yeah, those things and understanding that we're gonna be held accountable You know for everything that we started, you know in our lives to steward from people to resources

34:18

Relationships the whole thing. Absolutely. Yeah, so let's switch gears a little bit that that's a great opening testimony but I want to talk a little bit about What you do now because just from that little

34:30

Snippet of a testimony you went from someone who like like you said, you know Abandoned school and abandoned all these things

34:38

Was radically saved if we're allowed to say that I feel like that's a radically saved

34:44

Wasn't it an album that Carmen made back in the 80s? I feel like it was like really early 2000s isn't okay.

34:50

I'm sorry dating myself But anyway, so tell me a little bit about what you do now because you are the executive director.

34:59

Is that the correct? executive director of the Pregnancy Center in Toledo Very successful I would say and just about any measure of the imagination there's not too many of them that do all the things that you do and To see you just just from what you told us a few minutes ago of where you were to where the

35:19

Lord has brought you in such a short amount of time and I think it's and I think you would agree it's nothing to do with you and probably

35:24

All to do by God's grace and glory because I know you to be a very humble person You don't take pride in a title or anything like that.

35:32

You are a worker bee, which I absolutely love we can get into that later Probably work a little too hard, but we'll talk about that off -air

35:39

I have to schedule you some massage time you and Ryan or something, but I say that as if so funny

35:47

We went a couple a couple of us couples went to Maui last month And she she said well when when are we leaving because I'm getting back from my cruise earlier that week

35:59

You needed it though you needed it so I work hard and I play there you go

36:04

So tell me a little bit about the Pregnancy Center and how you came into that position and what need you guys fill in Toledo?

36:11

Yeah, so I it's always so interesting, you know when people ask, you know, whether they're just kind of starting out in Trying to find out like what what am

36:20

I supposed to do with my life? Like what was I created to do and you know, I have people, you know that are zealous and are excited to kind of Dive into that and they're like well tell me how like you got to where you are now and I'm always the worst person to ask that because when

36:37

I turn on and look back, I mean, I really feel like I just fumbled my way into Where I'm at, you know, there was never like I don't even have a resume sure

36:47

I mean, I I think I had to like scramble to put a resume together for the board

36:54

At the Pregnancy Center when I was moving from my current position into the director position

36:59

And I was like, I have to watch a YouTube like tutorial Who did have a resume in the

37:05

Bible Nope, like seriously for sure what great woman or man of God had a resume God look at I'm qualified like no one was qualified Yeah, and for sure.

37:15

I was the least qualified but now I think in maturity what I can look back and see

37:22

Was blessed was obedience, you know and I feel like one of the biggest takeaways over the last decade of my you know life over a decade of walking with the

37:35

Lord is That delayed obedience is disobedience and really understanding.

37:41

That's good that part of the reason that You know and there's so many

37:46

References where when we are faithful and stewarding the small And there are people who have been you know with me for you know

37:54

Over ten years that have that saw that faithful with small And the cool thing about where this all started for me was

38:02

I was at Ember on a Tuesday night in there You may know do you know John Barker?

38:08

I know of him. So John Barker came and he preached at Ember and it was such a wild night he preached in the second half of his like sermon the mic died and He just kept on preaching.

38:23

I like a volume That like you would hear on a mic I mean, he didn't have a voice after it was done and it was like the fear of God in repentance and in the topic of abortion and I got destroyed that night like in the best way possible

38:40

Possible And so I felt like God said go don't talk to anybody

38:46

Go and start doing as much research on abortion That you can do and don't talk to anybody about it.

38:53

Like just come and talk to me about it So I started to do all of this research historically

38:59

You know from the documentary Moffitt 21, which I feel like everybody should watch to Margaret Sanger to how you know

39:10

Plain Parenthood started in our nation to Eugenics and crypto eugenics and so I mean for like four weeks.

39:18

I'm immersing myself okay in like Understanding from a legal to an economic

39:27

From a morality issue what the Bible says about it Again eugenics and you know the

39:35

Darwinist thought that less desirable traits could be weeded out

39:40

You know, you know sure looking at this multifaceted issue from about every way that you could turn it and I stumbled upon this

39:51

Site and this organization called bound for life and bound for life was a grassroots prayer movement specifically for the ending of abortion and What they encouraged people to do was to go and to pray outside of abortion facilities

40:06

Okay So after dialoguing with the Lord about it I felt like what he asked me to do is to go when the abortion

40:14

Facilities were closed and to pray outside of them and I feel like that was such a divine instruction for him because even now

40:23

Like there was something about yes, it was still on the sidewalk But I didn't have to be there when the doors were open right like it wasn't about Being in the action per se.

40:33

It was really about the courtroom of heaven and understanding the power of prayer So every

40:39

Saturday morning at 7 o 'clock in the morning I would go and I would pray outside of the abortion and were you doing were you working somewhere else?

40:49

Okay, you're doing this as just yeah extra curricula the Lord told me to do this

40:54

Okay, and at that point there were four Abortion facilities in Toledo now, there's one.

41:01

Okay, and I remember one time and I mean I just I feel like again that that That quick encounter with the

41:07

Lord just birth this Just very childlike faith. Like when

41:12

God says do something you just do it like don't You don't ask questions.

41:18

You don't argue like you just you just do it And so I remember one day God was like I want you to prayer walk

41:26

Between each abortion facility There was one downtown one on Sylvania Avenue one on Airport Highway and one over by Please take your

41:38

Fitbit you're gonna wear Your Creek Sal look over my Glendale area so I'm like I'm gonna

41:45

I'm gonna walk Downtown and I'm gonna walk So I'm talking to my friend

41:52

Samer and Janelle and Samer is like I mean, there's literally not a chance that you can go walk this by yourself

41:59

Like you're in your early 20s Like this is gonna take you you it's gonna be a miracle if you get through all this in one day

42:05

I'm like, well, I mean the only thing that's gonna change it I mean if you want to come do it with me so Samer and I started at the abortion facility downtown and we walked from Downtown Toledo over to Sylvania Avenue Sylvania Avenue over to Glendale and then

42:20

Glendale over to Airport Highway and I had when we were at the abortion facility that's here in On Sylvania the one that's still open.

42:33

I had this really powerful encounter where God gave me a vision of heaven

42:41

And it was like a stadium but it was the biggest stadium I'd ever seen and to my

42:49

Right were all of these people and all of a sudden at the same Time they all began to like talk and it was deafening so much so that talking to Samer afterwards

43:00

He was like, I thought that you were gonna pass out like I don't know what was happening with you

43:06

So I asked God I'm like what in the world is this and he said this is what I hear every day

43:14

From the voices of aborted children asking for justice Oh, well, and it was such this like marking in my heart of understanding

43:23

When we talk about, you know Proverbs that says, you know Six things that the Lord hates seven that he finds detestable and the first one is the shedding of innocent blood

43:32

You know, sometimes it's hard to understand and comprehend You know the justice side of God, but I mean imagine we know just in the

43:41

United States alone I mean we're talking about millions Yeah slaughtered children

43:47

Yeah, and he has to hear the reality of those people asking for justice

43:53

Yeah I mean, I know people that work in the court systems now who deal with you know A couple thousand caseloads a year and the burden that that carries of like administering justice individuals like can you imagine

44:08

Millions upon millions upon millions of people day in and day out Like requesting justice.

44:14

Well, not only that but think about how passionate you find like victim rights advocates like yourself or a prosecutor or Even sometimes in defense attorneys who say, you know, justice has to be served for the victim and we're a fallen

44:29

Sinful creature and we have that much passion for injustice think how much more a just God has

44:36

Passion for injustice to innocent the shedding of innocent blood like that I just think of that and I go it's not even on the same level if I can find a human down here that had

44:47

You know lifelong passion for you know, victims rights and all these things a holy and righteous

44:53

God has to have such a passion for that type of injustice and you know for someone like you who works on behalf on To help right that wrong or to bring justice to those who've been you know to injustice

45:09

It's such a sacred thing. Yeah. Yeah, and in how much more his own creation, too

45:14

I mean, there's so many different, you know, yes, he's just yes. He has these, you know voices that are crying out for justice

45:22

But then also they're there his masterpiece He created them and so sure there was so much and I feel like that was such a marking moment for me where I'm like Okay, this is really something that I want to give myself to Ryan and I get engaged we decide we're gonna go on a mission trip right before our wedding which really is probably the only reason

45:41

I came back from Africa was because I Committed to marrying

45:47

Ryan because that's what every passionate, you know young believer is called to do is Africa, right?

45:54

It's on the check come back from Africa and we land in Chicago and I have this voicemail from the foundation for life and right to life of Toledo and they said hey

46:07

We've heard all these really great things about you and like to bring you in and do an interview with you So I'm like,

46:13

I mean, this is really what I'm passionate about. So went in hired me on the spot Well, and I really owe so much to the director of Foundation for life because I don't know that I would have brought me at that point and I Learned so much.

46:32

I just being a student one of my core values is just to be a lifelong learner and I learned so much in that environment and you know from key players and the importance of the political side of this and the advocacy side of this and Learning the way that laws work and I'm just a bill sitting on Capitol Hill I feel like in my role now you see a lot of people who are on the human services side of the abortion issue

47:04

Who have bad taste in their mouth? Towards the right to life

47:10

Aspect of it and then also the right to life You know sometimes they'll have a bad taste in their mouth about the human services side one person isn't doing enough and that person is doing too

47:21

Much and they don't understand and I feel like that gave me such a great bridge and understanding You know, we absolutely need to have laws that safeguard innocent life and equally to have you know, the

47:37

Human services side of that that those really have to do work And I got lots of really great experiences

47:44

I was able to go to Columbus and to be you know at the

47:49

Capitol and to kind of be on the forefront of that where I realized that I was probably not cut out for The political advocacy side of this as I worked through the second

48:03

Obama Election, okay, and then to work so hard and then lose an election

48:10

Was devastating and I was like, I'm not quite sure that I'm like cut out Like I like to win

48:17

Like, you know, and I mean the politics is such a

48:25

Beautiful messy sure it is tough I mean it just is so tough and I said, you know,

48:30

I just don't know that in this season that this is And I think at that point the only avenue for like moving forward was running for office

48:39

And I'm like, I just don't know if I'm cut out for that Like I think I have to or even at that time in your life Yeah, and you know now

48:46

I realize like there are so many other things that I could do to help in that arena Especially now with the experience that I have from consulting

48:54

And lobbying and some of those things but at that point it was either like you are gonna be president of the United States Or you needed to leave

49:00

So, how long were you there for I was at Foundation for life for Four years.

49:08

Okay, three or three or four years and then knew that God was Giving me the opportunity to look elsewhere.

49:16

I was actually at a fundraising event for the Pregnancy Center This was in 2012 and I was approached by the executive director at that time.

49:24

She said hey, we're hiring Would you ever be interested and I said, hey, that's really cool I'm actually, you know, perfectly looking at what leaving the foundation would look like So let's talk more long story short.

49:37

They had this role that they had been trying to fill and They had like offered the job to people

49:43

People had took the job and then like never showed up for work like on their first day Well, I had had this like moment

49:52

You know election in the fall Summer before where I'm like, I just I feel really

49:59

Uneasy and I feel like I need to start looking and say there's maybe something else and I talked myself out of it

50:05

Well at that time was when they had first opened that position up All right, so really it felt like God act in my own disobedience

50:14

Sure felt like God like I'm gonna hold this position for you. So I came to the Pregnancy Center formally on God.

50:20

God is patient Stupidity In 2012

50:28

I've been with the Pregnancy Center since 2012 Wow the longest time

50:33

I have ever been in one place anywhere house apartment most of my relationship

50:42

So tell us wait tell us so people listening what is the Pregnancy Center Can you give us a little overview of what that is?

50:48

So you're referencing it? They know what we're talking about faith -based Outreach that focuses on on Really eradicating the need for abortion in our community by creating sustainable

51:04

Parenthood and so we understand that The lie that we bought into as a society and here's the reality like we've made it really easy for people to walk into an abortion facility an abortion isn't gonna go away until the path into Sustainable parent, you know parenting is more well funded more supported wider and well structured

51:29

For the demographics that are most at risk for an abortion decision And so, you know while to me that the legal side is really should be taking a sledgehammer to That path into an abortion.

51:42

Sure. That's only half the issue though Yeah, really is and then from the Pregnancy Center side we have to be building a

51:49

Sustainable path into parenthood for these individuals, you know when we look even at the church's responsibility in our nation at the beginning we were

52:00

You know the the the agency that cared for the vulnerable. We were the

52:06

WIC we were the jobs and families. I mean we're the Ecclesia and It we handed that right as the church over to the government

52:15

And so I feel like hated our duty the Pregnancy Center really is helping You know and with other organizations that are doing this and other justice, you know

52:24

Ministries is reawakening the church to her identity and you know, it's not

52:31

Throwing government money or laws as an issue That's gonna it's gonna change the trajectory because we know that you know, these agencies are providing good things

52:41

I mean we have women every day who are benefiting and benefiting from WIC from You know jobs and family services and Medicaid, but that's not sustainable being you know in 2020 right now the very delicate dance of how sustainable really is this right and I love you know

53:02

That God said I didn't just come that you would have life I came that you that you would have it in abundance.

53:07

And so for us at the Pregnancy Center, we want sustainability in Family and in parenting for both mothers and fathers.

53:16

So one of the ways we do that is through our limited medical clinic We see that from a lot of different socio -economic to even culturally these are not individuals that Have access or there's a perception of not having access in health care a lot of these individuals that we serve their primary care is the emergency room doctor that's on duty and so again, it's

53:42

Perception but also reality in the demographics that we're serving You know in in whatever we have to do to walk with this individual so that they understand there actually is a path

53:55

Into parenthood and whether it's them carrying and parenting or making an adoption plan and we also know that abortion ravages

54:06

Families and so we know that God is the same God for individuals that are walking Into an abortion facility as he is for individuals walking out.

54:15

So we have a Bible based recovery curriculum That we walk post -abortive men and women through I'm an understanding that The way the doorway into healing is repentance and at that point that God wants to heal to the uttermost one of the unintended consequences of abortion on demand globally is the

54:38

We have stripped men and women who lose children in utero both naturally through miscarriage but also through abortion the right to grieve as parents and to me that's actually a huge injustice that we don't talk about is these are parents that have lost children and Anyone that's lost a child understands as a lifelong

55:03

Process, but because we've said that's not human. Yeah, we Child and if that's not child, then you're not mother and you're not father

55:13

And so even after we get through, you know biblical restoration, you know repentance biblical restoration healing and forgiveness

55:20

Then we have someone that finally Recognizes that they are mother and I'll tell you what.

55:26

I have never I have never experienced brokenness and travail and weeping like I have sitting with a woman who you know understands now what abortion was and we're not just even talking about You know the loss of life, which is a lifelong

55:47

Devastating reality to me. There's no greater loss than the loss of a child from a parent perspective

55:54

But to have that at the result of your own Doing I mean for anyone that's lost a child and was responsible in some way

56:04

I mean that just takes that devastation to a whole nother level, you know And I want to be clear for anyone that's listening, you know

56:10

God's forgiveness Absolutely covers abortion. I mean there is Nothing that he would not do to step in and in to touch that place

56:22

You know in your life, and I don't think we do a really great job, you know in the church or you're being kind I think we do a horrible job

56:31

I think we have a lot of work to do as a church to to understand. I mean even the fact of like Unplanned pregnancy and how we deal with that inside our churches with maybe a young daughter or a single woman or Whatever and I even say in our churches

56:50

There's a double standard on how the man verse the woman is treated even even if they go to You know, let's say it's the same church or it's maybe it's in the youth group or something like that It's totally treated differently

57:03

And and I get it you will not find a bigger advocate for the saving of innocent life but I tell you what you don't you don't fix that by shame and guilt and Condensation and shunning and all these things that Christ doesn't do for us

57:21

That if we truly believe as a church that that life and that womb was knit together by God and is precious

57:27

Then we treat the person carrying it and the person involved in making it with that same dignity and respect just because it's it's something that we say is outside of the you know, natural order of God's order of sex within the you know

57:44

Within marriage does not mean that we treat them a certain way and I think we've done a really Bad job, unfortunately,

57:51

I think it's changing because of people like you and organizations like you Yours and the

57:56

Pregnancy Center because what I'm so impressed with at the Pregnancy Center, too Is there's this there's this awesome balance of both

58:05

Kingdom work Gospel living godly principles, but then like practical things, too

58:12

Like let's teach you, you know how to shop how to spend money how to raise a family how to get housing

58:19

How to all these things that I think even you know public schools and secular

58:26

Institutions kind of ignore and then on top of that you put now and you know an unplanned pregnancy

58:31

Throw you out there in the world and go. Oh deal with it. Let me tell you I don't

58:36

I don't have and you can Speak to this better than I do But I would imagine that the majority of those women making that choice are doing it under some type of duress

58:46

And you are not yourself when you're under a mental or an emotional duress Yeah, I've made decisions and duress that I look back on and go.

58:54

What was I thinking because You you can't even imagine it. I'm not gonna sit here and speak to it and act like I'm an authority on it

59:00

I'm a man. I'll never go through that process but if the church did a better job at what

59:07

The Pregnancy Center is doing to where you're creating an environment in a culture from start to finish

59:13

Where you're applying godly principles and practical worldly application I think we would

59:19

I think we'd be much better off You know like they say from soup to nuts on the whole process because that's you know

59:26

You're you're pro -choice people really do have kind of a I wouldn't say it's a good argument

59:32

But they have some validation when they say oh, well you care about the unborn, but you don't care about X Y or Z after they're born

59:39

However, you want to put it and I would say because of the church over the decades This isn't something that's just happened last year or you know ten years ago

59:48

I'm saying this is a 50 to 70 year over the over the decades Advocating our duty to a secular government instead of us being the church and in actually

59:57

Walking out Christ's command to love, you know, love others as we would want to be loved

01:00:03

And treat others as we'd want to be treated I think we'd have a really different paradigm shift even in secular society of how we look at abortion and in taking that life and I think we have an uphill battle as a

01:00:16

Western Church to make sure that we are actually living out the gospel in that in that area because it's so easy

01:00:24

For us and I've talked about this before where we love to hierarchy our sin And rationalize it by saying well at least

01:00:32

I didn't do that Yeah, I I did that for a while coming back to the Lord. Well, at least I'm not doing this anymore

01:00:37

The Lord was like everything you did is sin It's all sin and it's in rebellion to me and you better get down on your face and repent

01:00:44

You know, I mean like the Pharisee and the tax collector like we talked about last time. Absolutely and in in in Religiosity we have a we love to hierarchy what sin is what sin and now

01:00:56

I would say there's obviously different levels of consequences to sin You know and even the law reflected that in the

01:01:03

Old Testament there was a different consequence for something But and like you said I agree there is no sin too large that God will not forgive will not absolutely renew and restore

01:01:16

But I think it's a challenge for our churches today to really maybe take that same Look that your pregnancy center is taking and saying approaching this from obviously godly principles and kingdom

01:01:28

Theology but also with real -world Application not just hey don't do this because God says not to I hate that argument or it's it's it's in the body

01:01:39

You know, what? However, look at I got people coming to me that go. I don't believe in God I don't believe in the

01:01:44

Bible. So what who cares guess what then I'm to show you Christ's love unrelentlessly

01:01:51

Without with abandonment to my purse, you know my personal needs and I'll tell you what they don't have to believe the words on the page

01:01:58

But they're gonna believe your actions Yeah, for sure, you know one of the scriptures that has served me well through the years is you know,

01:02:07

Paul's writing of you know, I I am the chief of sinners, yeah, like I am the president of the sinners

01:02:18

Club and The moment that I start to not see myself as that is where I can fall into Saying For the record she's pointing to Jason And yeah, and so I just Again, I think that's why it's so important that we stay close to our own salvation

01:02:48

Yeah, because it's so easy to get to that point and I think what happened inside of the church is we

01:02:57

We've actually combined two issues and called it sin So we know that obviously a child comes from sure sex procreation how it works and so what we've looked at because the majority of these situations are happening outside of God's blessing of marriage is

01:03:18

Yes, that is sin however If we believe that life in the womb was put there by the author of life then for us to ever categorize that as sin is

01:03:33

Such an abomination atrocious before the Lord but what we're doing is we're actually combining because it's an we believe we believe more in the act of procreation than we do of the giver of life because we can see the reality of like a plus B equals

01:03:52

Guy and girl get together. There's a baby Equals sin. Yeah, and the reality is is that we're not confronting the actual sin issue

01:04:01

We're can we're confronting the the fruit of that and calling it sin Yeah, and that's not it's not the case and it's not helpful.

01:04:10

It's not the case. It's It's it's misplaced Unfortunately, but I I would say, you know,

01:04:17

I don't want to sit here and just you know, knock on you know You know

01:04:23

The church is a general thing. I think we're getting better though I think even from like even from like the 80s and 90s in the early 2000s where I grew up I feel like there's an there's an awakening of understanding

01:04:38

In the church that oh we have to do more You know the moral remember like the moral majority and the whole right with like Falwell in the 80s and 90s

01:04:46

You touched on it a little bit where you're like, oh, I'm Midwestern and I'm patriotic. I should be a Christian That's what that came from out of the 80s and 90s.

01:04:52

He had a whole movement where he went Oh we can politicize our Christianity and get things done in the

01:04:57

Senate in the house and get the president to sign and get our politicians in there and it Was a horrible failure now.

01:05:03

I'm a Christian. I'm involved in politics. You're involved in politics I'm not saying don't be involved in politics, but I'm saying when you

01:05:09

Make the priority to to use the government to advance God's kingdom

01:05:15

That's backwards the kingdom advances God kingdom we changed the culture from the the secular culture from the gospel culture and it was a really it was a really big failure in some aspects because For one we kind of got a whole generation, you know, we're kind of all elder

01:05:32

Millennials or Millennials right in there We got a whole generation of like no foundation really like our youth groups were ran on Well, at least they're not out drinking and drugging.

01:05:41

So let's just have them hang out here in the sanctuary And we'll play games yeah, and then we got one over on him or like guess what we're doing after you

01:05:49

So you have a whole generation that didn't grow up with you know, any real? foundational understanding of who

01:05:55

God was and then instead of doing what the Pregnancy Center is doing now We had a whole movement of well

01:06:01

Let's just try to write laws and create things that you know restrict this act when it really on both sides

01:06:07

I mean you see that both in you know, the Millennial Christians, but you also see that in You know the post -modern

01:06:14

Christian I mean that was really birthed out of this same these same kids that were growing up that Weren't drinking

01:06:20

Mountain Dew on Wednesday nights and youth group Were those kids exist somewhere else?

01:06:26

And and they have actually what you have is a generation that has looked to The government to be the solution to all of these issues

01:06:36

And so I don't even think it's really just a conservative, you know thing that we've seen on the conservative isle I mean, I think we've seen that and I really believe the explosion of a lot of what's happening right now is is the fallout and even the

01:06:53

Jadedness inside of our generation of This isn't working and so to your point,

01:06:59

I think Because there are so many people who are jaded on both sides I mean even people that I want to vomit every time

01:07:08

I read their Twitter I see the same level of jadedness Sure coming from them and understanding this isn't working anymore

01:07:16

And I think the beautiful thing is that we're seeing people actually

01:07:21

Understand that it's really in in the neighborhood in the community where real change happens

01:07:27

And you know, I have to brag on our community here that what we've just talked about is not happening

01:07:32

You know, right is not even close to the majority in Toledo. We have a fantastic That's why

01:07:38

I didn't want to generalize I keep saying the Western Christian But there's plenty of churches out there and I would say the majority of churches.

01:07:44

Yeah in our area have responded so beautifully to to this reality,

01:07:51

I mean right now, you know, we were in this dilemma of our Pregnancy and parenting classes were and we were having

01:08:01

Three to four hundred people sign up Wow for these a semester and our building doesn't hold that and so looking at how do we

01:08:09

Serve these people and I've had a burden since I came to the Pregnancy Center of you know

01:08:14

Our job is not discipleship at the Pregnancy Center. We don't walk long term with people we're not designed by nature to do that and I Read in my

01:08:25

Bible. You do have partnerships though with people who do Well, and and so what I what

01:08:30

I what was burning in the back of me is when I read my Bible That's really what the church the church's main

01:08:35

Responsibility is I don't know, you know, I've been wrestling, you know from 2012 to 2000 and you know 19

01:08:45

What does it look like for us to create a bridge between the Pregnancy Center and the church?

01:08:50

So that true discipleship happened so we get into this, you know dilemma where we don't have enough room

01:08:56

We reach out to Church, that's just like four blocks down the road

01:09:03

That's doing incredible work. I mean they have a barber like in their church on Wednesdays You know that does free haircuts

01:09:11

They teach karate to kids from the neighborhood on like Tuesday afternoons

01:09:17

They do food pantries twice a week like their churches open every single day and probably like the most

01:09:24

Minimal thing that they're doing is a Sunday morning service. And so when we looked at what we were doing we were like We want to we want to connect people to a body not an empty building except for one day a week

01:09:38

Like we really want these people because the Bible says that God sets the lonely and families and so we wanted to find a church that actually looked like family so we

01:09:49

Actually ran into these pastors at the prayer breakfast last year and I was like, hey I've been trying to get a hold of you and this the pastor's wife stands up and she has tears in her eyes and she said

01:09:58

I Have been thinking about you for the last like two weeks. I wanted to reach out and to see if you guys would host

01:10:06

Parenting classes in our building and I'm like, oh no way Right, so we started doing this and I was actually there was there last night but then also two weeks ago on Tuesday and I ran into I come into the building because we're

01:10:22

They're doing a food pantry and we're giving out diapers wipes and formula if people are listening to this podcast

01:10:28

You know five years from now. We're in the middle of a global pandemic called We're not ready to laugh about it yet, especially

01:10:44

Yeah, not in Michigan, Ohio So kids are sane down there at least. Yeah, we're partnering, you know with this organization and I go in two weeks ago and I actually run into one of the dads that we had referred over there for Parenting classes.

01:11:01

So they came to the Pregnancy Center for pregnancy classes and then we do all of our Parenting classes out of the local church.

01:11:07

So they're with us through their pregnancy and then we say look your next step is Same instructor, but it's actually going to be over at this building instead and then what we ask the church to do is just to send people to start building relationships with them and then we go out with The tide and hopefully they're connected and plugged in and can continue relationship with them.

01:11:25

So I'm like, hey, man How's it going? Like super excited to see you here. Well, the cool thing about this kid is

01:11:30

His dad is an elder at this church and has been praying for his kids

01:11:36

To get back into the church for years Well and out of all of the churches that this young kid could have walked into to do parenting classes

01:11:46

He wasn't looking for Jesus He was just trying to learn how to be a good dad and out of all of them

01:11:51

I mean there are Thousands of churches in you know our city and out of all the churches that this kid walks into to start parenting classes

01:11:59

It's the church where his dad has been at the altar praying for his kids for years. I mean you can't even make this stuff up Yeah, so he like super excited.

01:12:07

He's like, oh my gosh like miss Dana. So I'm excited to see you He had been there since 8 o 'clock in the morning.

01:12:13

He comes every Tuesday to their food outreach packs all of the boxes Has been he and his girlfriend have been in church

01:12:22

Since they stopped doing parenting classes. They're there every Sunday super involved. He's like miss

01:12:28

You know, we just signed our first lease for an apartment like they're thriving Yeah right now and the reality is is that the pregnancy center could only take them so far

01:12:38

And what we saw was this beautiful exchange into a church that again wasn't just This thing on Sunday morning, which like I love

01:12:48

Sunday morning church. Like it's such a Staple to me, you know in my walk, but here it was the importance of growing this couple spiritually, but also walking with them

01:13:04

Practically, which is really discipleship and so we have seen the churches in our community show up in such a beautiful way and You know

01:13:12

The pregnancy center could truly not see the transformation in the lives of the people that were serving

01:13:19

Without the church and so I mean and it's beautiful to see Those two things work in tandem because I think it would be really weird for churches to start doing pregnancy tests and ultrasounds

01:13:31

You know from the classrooms on Wednesday afternoons And so I think you know marrying those two things together in a very kingdom minded way.

01:13:38

We're seeing success We're seeing abortion facilities closed and the cool thing is you mentioned, you know pro -choice people having valid points

01:13:47

I mean the reality is is they have very valid points and what we're seeing at the pregnancy center is an extreme respect from the pro -choice community here in our community because we're actually

01:13:58

Doing what they're asking the pro -life community to do, you know when they're on social media like Shredding, you know other pregnancy centers or other pro -life organizations, you know

01:14:13

They leave us out of it, you know, and these are people that I have personal relationships with the reality is

01:14:19

I've learned this Is that at the end of the day most people here locally that I've met that are either

01:14:29

You know abortion advocates or are working at the abortion industry Actually want the same thing that I want when we're having conversations

01:14:37

They actually want the same thing that I want We want women to be able to take care of themselves and their families.

01:14:46

We just have completely different sure, you know belief systems and Ideas on how we actually get there

01:14:56

And and I've just found that I actually can accomplish way more Work in the community if I'm not asking them to meet me a hundred percent where I'm at Like I'll just say look, okay great

01:15:09

So, you know, you are really passionate about doing this because you see that women can't

01:15:18

Be in the workforce Sure Without access to abortion. And so I'm gonna meet you there and I'm gonna say what we're gonna do is

01:15:26

Let's work really hard with Jobs, Ohio to make sure that women

01:15:31

Absolutely have access that if they do want to work, you know after having children that they have every

01:15:38

Avenue to be able to do that right, you know through the means that we we can create and so it's wild to see that when we

01:15:48

When we don't expect people like you said, these are not people that believe the same things that we do

01:15:53

You know, I have a mentor that said don't expect the world To act like the church. And so I just don't have an expectation that these people hold the same belief system

01:16:02

Yeah, but I do have an expectation on myself that I am The only gospel that even abortion advocates and you know

01:16:11

I've found a lot too and I talked to people on the other side of this issue They're they're really they're really advocating for a lot of other things that doesn't necessarily have to end in taking a life 100

01:16:24

I would say the majority of the majority Well, like you said not access to work can't afford doesn't have housing doesn't you know doesn't have the other person in the picture

01:16:33

It's like well all of these things can we can work through these issues without a life needing to be taken

01:16:39

And sometimes that that step seems to be you know

01:16:44

It's a shortcut. It's it's it's I don't want to say easy. I'm when I say easy. I mean, it's the fast Maybe that's a better instant and I Don't know.

01:16:54

I think your approach can work so much better because like you said and if anyone listening,

01:16:59

I'm not going, you know soft on Pro -choice I'm saying you're making a point in saying we we have we want women to be you know to be taken care of and and We have that in common so like the way to get there is different But like you're saying is you're going that extra mile like the gospel pretty much

01:17:21

Preaches and teaches to meet that person at that place and then say how can we work together to accomplish the goal of making sure?

01:17:29

You know this life is saved. Yeah, and I mean the reality is is that there there is truth in that statement

01:17:34

I mean an abortion can cost anywhere from five hundred dollars to a couple thousand having a child is

01:17:41

A very expensive endeavor. Sure, right? Absolutely. It's you know, they're gonna be with you through The next you know 18 plus years.

01:17:51

I mean, they don't magically go away at 18. I drew that to my parents You know and so and not to make light obviously like, you know

01:18:01

I think sometimes when people hear You know people talking about abortion when that's not a part of your everyday life, you know

01:18:07

You know that the reality is is that I've had to Learn how to be able to have this conversation and not emotional way

01:18:16

I mean obviously abortion is I've given my life to the understanding that this is something that grieves the heart of God and I think for me,

01:18:23

I'm I'm so tunnel vision in the reality of I Absolutely believe that I can demolish abortion in my community in my lifetime

01:18:32

And I'm not in this for a career like the sooner that I can get Like I got beaches in Hawaii calling my name or you know the state, you know

01:18:43

I have so much like I'm not here to like cozy up and you know Make money for myself like I have dreams and things that I want to see done

01:18:51

And I remember sitting across from someone in our community That is an abortion rights advocate and I asked him this question

01:18:58

We were at lunch and I said, do you believe in a world where abortion? Doesn't have to exist and they looked me in the eye and they said no absolutely not

01:19:07

I believe that abortion will always have to exist and I realized that that's where the the fault line of belief is actual world view believe

01:19:17

I am so hopeful and so tunnel vision that we are the

01:19:24

Closest that we have ever been to the reality that this is actually something that our

01:19:30

Generation will wake up and realize it's not a necessity and for me to get sidetracked into Any sort of you know boxing match with someone that believes different Like and I'm also not because of my conviction that people matter so much to God I also don't know people over and so I'm just gonna link arms with that person and go well

01:19:53

Come on, like we're just gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna show you You know my life that this is something that I Absolutely believe with every

01:20:03

I believe that there is a way out for every woman and really that's the heartbeat of the Pregnancy Center Is that anyone who walks into an abortion facility that has walked the doors of the

01:20:14

Pregnancy Center first? Will not walk into an abortion facility And not understanding that they had other choices because you said earlier women

01:20:27

There was a survey done in 2015 it was there 2015 or 2016 through the

01:20:32

Lifeway Research Institute and what they said is that 49 % of women who make an abortion decision did so because they did not believe they had another choice

01:20:44

Which is maddening to me because in the name of choice Half of the individuals that are walking into an abortion facility are doing so because they actually did not have a

01:20:56

Another option or another choice And so we have this like massive global screaming conversation about choice

01:21:02

And the reality is is that the people who are most affected by abortion every single day don't have a choice

01:21:09

They don't have choices Do abortion clinics actually say something about a Pregnancy Center like whenever someone walks in is that some is that an option that they give?

01:21:17

to the person so they just My knowledge and and what you won't ever hear me do and I think this is something that the pro -life community needs to stop

01:21:27

Doing is if we don't know what's happening inside of an abortion facility We need to stop writing a monster under the bed narratives

01:21:34

So we see so many articles and so many things on social media that these are you know

01:21:40

Monsters under the bed and they're doing this or they don't do that And so what you will never hear me say is if I don't have

01:21:46

Firsthand knowledge or legal documents that something is or isn't happening inside of an abortion like we have enough problems to be making problems up so the interesting thing about the dynamic of our

01:22:00

Abortion facility here and our Pregnancy Center is that we have I mean we're right next door to them

01:22:06

And so we've built a relationship our Pregnancy Center is not our after abortion program is we share a driveway with them

01:22:12

And we challenged ourselves to go over and be the best neighbors that we possibly could

01:22:17

Understanding that again, we're not gonna We're not gonna sacrifice human beings on the altar of reaching other human beings an abortion facility workers are just in need of you know the hope of the gospel as unborn babies are in need of saving and sure moms and dads are in need of that, you know same hope and So they are abortion facility actually do that's cool if they have someone who is like,

01:22:43

I actually don't want to I don't want to do this I You know, we're not hearing that women that come to us.

01:22:50

We see a lot of women who come to us Either because they change their mind or they feel like they need to hit the brakes and sometimes we're like Why are you here?

01:22:59

And it's literally just God brought them through the door We have no idea why they would have come to us it, you know, we're not hearing like They're you know twisting my arm or putting a gun to my head and I think that again we like to we like to assign enemy status to you know abortion clinics and so But to our knowledge no and the other really crazy thing is that we do have a

01:23:22

Planned Parenthood here There are non abortion performing Planned Parenthood and we get referrals from them all the time.

01:23:28

Yeah, awesome And I don't think you know, especially in a state like Ohio where I think that's optional because there's only a few states that mandate certain things

01:23:38

Have to be given to the patient before a procedure, correct is

01:23:43

To my knowledge You'll have to fact -check me on this Texas is the only state that has a

01:23:52

Mandated there's this like magazine or pamphlet that at any

01:23:59

OB office any abortion facility and it walks through The development like fetal development

01:24:08

What the risks and complications of an abortion procedure could potentially be we do that for any other surgery should absolutely do that and then also the has a list of pregnancy resource centers and adoption agencies and so I think

01:24:25

Again to my knowledge that Texas is the only state that has done that in Ohio We have a really pro -life governor

01:24:35

Been a really pro -life state for a long time and there's been some incredible work That's been done and there are some great measures in place that do pump the brakes you talked about it earlier

01:24:46

You know when we're in trauma our brain doesn't function The way that it functions outside of trauma.

01:24:53

I mean, that's why you have all this study about trauma -informed care Is so when you have this traumatic situation, you know your decision -making

01:25:02

Part of your brain isn't operating at the capacity You know, and I am

01:25:07

NOT saying that women who make abortion decisions don't understand what they're doing

01:25:12

You know, this is actually something that is proven science. Oh absolutely across the board I think we all have had times where like we look back on a decision that we made in haste or in Crisis and go that is not the decision that I would have made and so when people look at some of these pumping brake laws or you know

01:25:30

The pro -choice community calls them trap laws. The reality is is that they're not to take people's rights away

01:25:38

It's scientifically proven that if we give people space in time

01:25:43

Outside of trauma to be able to make an informed decision I mean if it's really about the name of choice, then

01:25:51

I mean, I think that's something that everybody should be able To get behind and again it you know abortion right now is legal and as much as I want that to change

01:26:01

It that's the reality of our current landscape And so after 72 hours if she is still confident that that's the best decision, but goodness sakes

01:26:10

Let's give her right the ability to slow down I mean, it's a life -altering

01:26:17

It's gonna be with them. No, I had that conversation about two or three months ago with a pro -choice

01:26:24

In person, it wasn't a Facebook conversation. I'm getting away from that in my elder years. It's not fruitful

01:26:31

And they were talking about that. Well, no, it's your choice. They should be able to do it right then I said sweet, so you don't you don't agree with the three -day waiting period for me to go buy a gun, right?

01:26:38

They went what I gotta wait three days to buy a gun I should be able to walk in get a handgun right that moment

01:26:44

Yeah in the in the heat of my duress or if I'm stable minded shouldn't matter my choice comes first.

01:26:50

Yeah And they went well, no, I don't agree this. Why not? What's the difference and they didn't really have a good answer for me?

01:26:56

but so it's kind of a double standard when I when I was you know, and Mine is just a gun now.

01:27:02

That's maybe potentially you could be doing something horrible with a gun, but Your your example, there's a life that hangs in the balance two lives

01:27:11

I would say possibly two lives, okay For for death, but I'm saying also there's a there's a the mental stability of you know, because we have all kinds of documentation from Psychologists and doctors and things that there takes a toll with that on the woman that's carrying the child too

01:27:30

Which we don't really talk about a whole lot I feel like Women really get gypped in that area because they're sold a bill of goods of it's a procedure.

01:27:38

It's quick It has to be done. Like you said in duress You don't really have a choice and then you can deal with so many issues afterwards not even to mention

01:27:45

We didn't even get into this but even the man There's issues with that too with where do the rights come in and the say in it and even you know

01:27:55

A man can deal with with issues after the loss of a child as well, too And I would say in the realm of the father, you know, that's such a complicated

01:28:07

You know, and it's a complicated issue Because we're speaking out of both sides of the mouth as a society

01:28:18

So if the woman chooses to carry and parent then we demand that he be involved

01:28:26

You know financially financially. Yeah You know, that's that is the law

01:28:32

And even in an adoption, you know, there are you know, there's the fatherhood registry and so we give him

01:28:37

You know rights in that regard So, you know women have three options when they have a pregnancy They can have an abortion they can carry in parent and they can make an adoption plan

01:28:45

So with an adoption plan we have the fatherhood registry where they you know Even if she doesn't want to place with him if he's on the fatherhood registry

01:28:52

He has just as many rights as she does in that situation You know in carrying

01:29:00

It's financially bound to care for that child and but then in an abortion decision we say that the man has no right

01:29:08

Crazy and you know, the reality is is that We see the complexities because we do have abortion recovery for men and we see that the grief

01:29:26

That is is really this it's not any more any less

01:29:31

It's just compounded because for many of these men they were either the

01:29:39

You know, I drove her and I essentially, you know quote -unquote put a gun to her head right gave her an ultimatum or We see

01:29:47

I was completely boxed out of this and had no voice and no and men and both are devastating

01:29:53

Created to be the protector and the provider and the way that we frame this conversation is actually an all -out

01:30:01

Assault on how men are and how fathers are created. And so right. Yeah, it's been a really tough

01:30:09

All right, so give me just a little bit then we got off on a little bit of a tangent there

01:30:14

But it's all good stuff. So you were at the Pregnancy Center and then you've been there since 2012 and now

01:30:21

Executive director for 2016 and Just knocking it out of the ballpark.

01:30:28

I'm gonna brag on you I know you don't like me to brag about you but I'm going to everyone listening and it's so crazy how many different aspects that you cover too because it's from like fundraising to like real -world things you know like Leasing building.

01:30:44

I mean you cut like politics you're in so it's like you say Pregnancy Center people go Oh, you probably just you know, you deal with I know

01:30:52

You knit blankets. Oh you hand out Pampers do and it's like Yeah, one of 10 ,000 things that I have to be involved in So it's kind of just to kind of give a you know overview to people listening.

01:31:03

I mean, it's an all -encompassing kind of deal the Pregnancy Center, like I said from from legislation right down to You know prenatal care and things like that So really the two kind of like heartbeats that drive everything we do is first, you know

01:31:20

Providing support to individuals to understand that this is not not only does this not have to be your choice

01:31:26

It's just not necessary. I mean, we just want to eradicate abortion from our community as a necessary thing

01:31:32

We do that through raising college women up through their value worth and identity on college campuses because also there was this

01:31:40

Moment in our ministry where we realized yes college women not having abortions is a massive win

01:31:46

Yeah, but walking into an abortion or into the Pregnancy Center isn't a win either and so we were like Oh, we're savoring all these college women and the reality is is that like that's not the best either

01:31:58

And so sole purpose which is our national campus organization we work with Pregnancy Centers that are in half a mile rate half an hour radius of college or community college

01:32:10

And understanding that that is the most vulnerable age Demographic and making an abortion decisions.

01:32:16

I mean really if we can raise her up and knowing who she is and God Yeah, so we do that in a couple different states.

01:32:23

Our goal is to have 25 chapters in the next five years Taking off God's doing incredible incredible work through that our you know, limited medical clinic here

01:32:32

We're working with those individuals making sure that post -abortive individuals are getting healed We know that women who have abortions are three times as likely to walk back through an abortion facility and so even the work that we're doing through our after abortion care is directly saving unborn children's lives because We've done it for 21 years and zero percent of those women have ever walked back into an abortion facility and then the other kind of stream of this is holding our community

01:33:06

Accountable for where we have said well We don't want to have abortion or we don't really care about abortion or in Understanding that there are other things that we need to do as a community our health care has to be able to You know serve these women in excellence.

01:33:22

We have to have you know Hospitals that will serve people we've seen, you know disparities and how different demographics, you know

01:33:31

People in poverty are served differently than people who aren't in poverty people are in systems or served, you know

01:33:36

And so, you know, not only are we walking with people? We're also holding You know people accountable, you know and part of what

01:33:43

I do from a legislative perspective is the higher that you get in politics the

01:33:49

More room that gets in between you and the people That are impacted by the decisions that you're making and so lots of you know communication

01:33:59

I've sent you know, lots of communication to our governor and hey These are things that you're doing that are really helpful

01:34:06

And these are things that you're doing that aren't very helpful and so helping connect because they also the majority of our legislators

01:34:15

Don't live in the neighborhoods of the girls that are walking into You know an abortion facility and I'm gonna say this and it's gonna sound a little you know harsh

01:34:24

But the reality is is that we have a bunch of white men and I have a lot of white men in my life

01:34:29

That I love that are making a board, you know decisions about a bunch of Latino and african -american women

01:34:35

So the reality is is that that's not that's not it doesn't have to be a bad thing The reality is is there just has to be understanding right of each other in that process

01:34:45

And so I feel like the Pregnancy Center can kind of stand in that gap and help, you know These incredible, you know white guys that I believe the majority of them are really passionate about what they're doing and really do

01:34:54

Care for life and want to see this thing change But also just don't have the time to drive around, you know, the inner city of Toledo and have an in -depth understanding

01:35:04

No, absolutely. And I think we would make the distinction there and tell me if I'm Understanding this correctly.

01:35:10

It's not the fact that oh, there's certain demographics that have to be in an elected position but in fact

01:35:16

The reason why we have a republic that's representative is because we want those people and those

01:35:23

Experiences walks of life to be in an elected position to then be able to bring something recognition to an issue

01:35:32

Because that's really the way I look at it is when you have too many of one thing, you know One time in our

01:35:37

Michigan legislature. It was like, I don't know It was like 40 % Realtors and it's like yeah, we're getting a lot of good real estate laws passed for us

01:35:45

Realtors But there wasn't there wasn't that diversity of experience like I want the housewife.

01:35:50

I want the veteran I want the businessman. I want the realtor.

01:35:55

I want the lawyer I want everyone, you know when you're talking elected officials, too and I like the fact that you said the

01:36:03

Pregnancy Center can kind of stand in the gap for the legislature to kind of Educate, you know, they're not they're not bad people.

01:36:11

I mean, that's the unfortunate reality of you know, the you know We hate you know, right white guy

01:36:19

You know for me again, I'm so tunnel vision and I know a lot of really great white guys

01:36:28

You know is tread lightly Expect for them to have that understanding.

01:36:34

I mean, that's not their job. That's my job And so what I can do is, you know come alongside of you know

01:36:41

Some of those individuals to just help them understand. I mean at the end of the day, you know where people live

01:36:47

Like we just have to stop holding those things against people and just go how can we actually bring more people to the table?

01:36:53

So that more people understand and it goes both ways. I mean, I think there's also a lot of you know

01:37:00

You know bridge building that the Pregnancy Center can do in the demographics of people that walk through the doors that we're serving to help

01:37:06

Them understand, you know, this isn't you know, the big bad wolf trying to blow your house down like really complicated and complex

01:37:12

You know issues and you know, I think any time we can just get people at the table together to start to see the humanity

01:37:19

That's just a really huge win. Wow, that's awesome Well, you want to what

01:37:24

I think we're gonna shift gears here a little bit I wanted to play a game with you guys just to lighten it up.

01:37:30

We're gonna go from a really important really heavy issue so would you rather to To to pick a hand

01:37:39

What was that Vegas vacation where he goes What number am I thinking? What number am I thinking of?

01:37:46

No, I wanted to play now you guys because you guys both kind of grew up In church,

01:37:52

I'm doing air quotes, but you were kind of around the Christian culture a little bit I wanted to know if you guys wanted to play name that tune but it's going to be with contemporary

01:38:05

Christian music from the 90s, so every Every one of these songs

01:38:14

This is a play there this this is a copy and this is this is what I want to do This is what

01:38:20

I want to do. We are I'm going to give you guys I didn't have a buzzer.

01:38:26

So we're gonna have to kind of make do here what I'm gonna do Play all

01:38:32

DC talk songs and I'll be good right now I'm gonna I'm gonna play a clip.

01:38:37

It's maybe 10 or 15 seconds. What I want is the name of the song Okay, okay

01:38:43

And now in just say if you got it say got it in the first one to say got it I'm gonna I'm gonna throw it over to you.

01:38:48

I want the name of the song That's worth that's worth one point if you can then also tell me the artist you'll get an additional point

01:38:57

I'm kind of competitive that when I go to baby showers. No, you want you want the prize? Are you are you the one that wants to catch the bouquet even though you're

01:39:08

Shoulder rolling other women out of the way Okay, we ready I have six of them here seven of them if we need a tiebreaker

01:39:15

Let's do who knows we might even do the tiebreaker to just for fun Okay So if you got it just say got it and then

01:39:23

I need the name of the song and then for an extra bonus point The artist, okay.

01:39:28

Are we ready? Mm -hmm. Here we go Got it. Oh, okay.

01:39:34

I'm just joking. I don't get it. Keep going. Okay, you get the rest of the car. You know what? Okay, what is it

01:39:47

I need the name of the song though first I knew the guitar part

01:39:58

And By audio adrenaline. All right, we have two points for Savannah All right, and you cannot falsely say you got it and then just bail.

01:40:08

All right This one I think is a little bit harder. So I don't know if you're having trouble with that one.

01:40:14

You might have Ready Ready Now you got it you got to give me the name of the song is this

01:40:33

I'm giving you more than 15 seconds. Come on The buzzer on that one

01:40:50

Anyone anyone? No. Oh, wow. You guys it that was point of grace. Oh keep the candle burning

01:40:59

All right still two to zero ready now this one I think you guys are gonna get ready here we go.

01:41:08

Oh God, I gotta go. Oh, okay. I need the name of the song first for a point

01:41:20

You literally just said it What's the name of the song? It is and who is the our collective soul?

01:41:29

No, it's those one guys with Tate as the lead singer now, right

01:41:37

Name news boy news boy All right, so I'm a

01:41:44

Christian It's two to two round three ready, here we go.

01:41:50

It's a got it when you have the name of the song Silence this is a stumper

01:42:09

Give you 20 seconds of it. Oh, I cut it off right before you start gotta hear the lyric.

01:42:15

It is a he It is a he do five more seconds. No, I don't have five more seconds. That's all you get

01:42:21

I have no idea. It couldn't have been Stephen Curtis Chapman. Was it? You want to what you didn't give me the name of the song it was um, it was the change by Stephen Curtis Chapman That was one of his first big singles

01:42:43

Like our moms were in our late 30s and they were listening to sweet music in the 90s Yeah Well, you are a little younger than me.

01:42:54

So you were probably late 90s to mid -2000s with your Yeah, see

01:42:59

I'm 99 so you're just on that the next time you guys come on we'll do early 2000s But we still have a couple more rounds.

01:43:05

It's still two to wait. Did I give you a point for that or no point for? I'll give you a point for it then fine three to two

01:43:12

Okay, we ready now you guys better know this one ready say got it when you got the name of the song

01:43:19

I got it jars of clay Flood. Oh, he got it.

01:43:24

Oh Five to two. I wore that CD out. Did you wear that CNN? Yeah.

01:43:29

Yeah. Okay ready. This is where you come back Savannah are you ready name of the song first?

01:43:48

Game is that five to five? No, she she's got five to four. I'm like,

01:43:53

I'm not competitive Last one right here ready now this

01:44:00

I think this one might be hard for you guys This is the last round possible two points up for grab If you get two points you win if you get one point you tie if not

01:44:09

Jason gonna take it. Here we go I Know no, you need to give me the name of the name of the song first though.

01:44:20

That's gonna be the hard part Do you want to take a guess at it

01:44:37

I'll play the rest of it since That she interrupted fair. Will you interrupt it? Supertones, I'll give you that That was the name of the the album that it was on and they did have one called strike back that was called unite

01:45:06

By the super toes at first. I was like is that war? Well, you want to what we're gonna have to give that one to Jason you won by a point you won by a point

01:45:28

No five to four the whole game that's what I'm talking about. I'm not competitive at all.

01:45:33

Yeah I'll tell you what. I can hardly wait to put up this video clip of YouTube you two guys like freaking out

01:45:40

I Was pretty awesome in a while. That's great. Yeah, I figured why not have a little fun after we just had this great discussion

01:45:50

I'm gonna tell you when you said five iron frenzy I didn't think anyone would really know that I got way into super tones and five iron frenzy back in the day

01:45:57

And the fact that you guessed I was like there everyone will know the super tones But no one will know five iron frenzy, so I'm not gonna do that and then you guessed it

01:46:05

I'll take it a level deeper. Did you ever get into insiders with a Z? Jesus looking at us like we're crazy.

01:46:16

I'm sorry guys. I was in Japan When you were listening to your Scott news in the 90s in the 80s

01:46:22

We listened to country gospel gospel music the the cooks the McCamey's, you know, like okay, and then actually this is funny

01:46:30

My mom would not let me buy DC talks record because it had graffiti on it and we were at the

01:46:36

Christian bookstore She said no. No, no, Jason. This is the no you can't get this.

01:46:41

I thought I grew up in a legalistic Graffiti was Open up for Marvel girls.

01:46:49

Oh, wow. I would have liked to seen the insiders. They were they were pretty good There was a crazy moment in contemporary

01:46:55

Christian music in the late 90s Where it's like all Scott it was just Scott was it for like a year and a half two years

01:47:06

Sometimes I'll go back and just listen to those old artists and go what whatever happened to those guys, you know

01:47:11

And then we went through the swing music thing for a little bit to in the 90s guys Remember that when like swing was in for like a year

01:47:18

Yeah, I was learning how to swing dance the first semester of college. Yeah.

01:47:23

Oh, yeah. There was this girl I'm married now though.

01:47:28

That's why we swing dance, right? No, no real swing We're married though, so it's yeah, okay, you really do swing dance.

01:47:39

I mean, it's not like I wouldn't call what Don't you have me see me swing dances.

01:47:48

I mean, no, she's 11 weeks 11 weeks. Congratulations crazy Well, it's already been 11 weeks do this while Wow Congratulations amazing and swing dancing every morning.

01:48:00

Yeah. Yeah. No, no your boxers with the front just the robe just This is one a different direct.

01:48:09

Yeah, this totally I shouldn't have never done this whole music thing I we were so serious and professional for the first hour and a half then you put on a little ska music

01:48:20

Oh But guys, did you guys have anything else to add before we wrap it up? I want to thank both of you for being here

01:48:25

I think it was very informative Savannah anytime you want to come back and hang out. You're more than welcome to hang out

01:48:31

I love talking to you. It was it was like I said informative intelligent I think it needs to be said needs to be heard and If anyone is listening and might need to reach out to the pregnancy center

01:48:43

Can you just throw out maybe the way to either contact you or the center or where you guys are at on social media? Yeah, so I mean if people are looking for Services if they just our web page is

01:48:56

Pregnancy center dot org. Okay, very easy. I mean if people are interested in Learning more about what we're doing friends of pregnancy center dot org

01:49:08

So both okay, super simple very social. Yeah social media handles for all the same

01:49:14

Yeah, very cool. Well Savannah. Thank you for being here Josh Josh.

01:49:19

Oh my gosh I looked right at him and called him Josh Jason my name was supposed to be Josh was it?

01:49:25

Yeah. Yeah, my mom was between Josh and Jason my cousin's name was Much better name.

01:49:30

No, it's I'm an axe bro. My name's an axe. Oh, is that what it means?

01:49:36

No, no, it's in acts. It's in Name is oh, no. No, that would be cool too.

01:49:41

Yeah, it meant like axe Take it to the take it to the bottom of the tree.

01:49:48

That's true. I'm saying. Yeah I don't think Greg's in the Bible if it was he was like Jesus's accountant maybe or something.

01:49:54

Yeah Watchful one guardian of theology No literally means that one

01:50:00

Wow guardian of theology and watchful one Weird, huh?

01:50:05

I think that's a whole nother episode. We'll talk about how like how important name changing and naming was in the

01:50:11

Bible So crazy, but either way we're wrapping up. We've almost hit two hours.

01:50:16

It's been a great episode Jason Savannah, thanks for coming by and we'll see you guys soon.

01:50:22

Yep. He always got to get his yep in there Yeah, usually