Gospel Coalition - The Least Loving Christian Blog in History? (Good Faith/Public School Part 4)

Alright, let's just jump back into this today. We are going to continue with our good faith debate, response, reaction, review about the public school thing. I'm having a good time doing it. People keep commenting that for some reason Jen Wilkin is still kind of slippery, sliding, worming her way into otherwise discerning and conservative circles.

People still think that she's a very serious thinker, very serious, you know, voice in our evangelical spaces or whatever it is, when in reality she's just a progressive. You know, she's just as progressive as any progressive that has ever progged in the Gospel Coalition circle.

So people are grateful for it and I'm going to continue to do it because I'm having a good time. Before we begin though, let me just say this, listen, in this audience, we all have a black friend, if you know what I mean.

I got black friends. I got a black friend. You got a black friend, I'm sure. And if we combine all of our black friends together, we have a lot of black friends in this audience. In this audience, we have black friends.

And I got to say, I have a sneaking suspicion that this kind of thing, I don't think black people like this kind of thing. Call me crazy. I mean, of course, there's crazy black people out there that like this kind of thing, but I don't think in general blacks are really into this.

Here's a Magic the Gathering card. There's a new Magic the Gathering set. It's a crossover between Magic the Gathering and Lord of the Rings. And here is their card that has Aragorn and Arwen. And as you can see, Aragorn is, he's a brother.

He's black. He's as black as black can be. And here's Arwen. She sort of seems like either maybe Jewish or Latina or something like that. She's got, of course, the elf ear here. But here's Aragorn. I don't know if you knew this, but Aragorn, he was a brother.

I mean, he could have been in the Black Panthers as far as I'm concerned. This is just weird. It's just like, this is, it keeps happening. We've talked about it on the channel before, just where white characters are replaced with blacks and it's the same character, but now it's a black person.

So this is Aragorn, who is quite clearly white, but now he's black. Here is the most recent one that came out. This is April O 'Neil. Now, if you remember, April O 'Neil was the reporter from the Ninja Turtle.

She was slender, red-headed, fair-skinned. Not anymore. Now she's a soul sister. She's a little bigger and she still kind of has the red hair, although, I don't know, it's like, it seems like maybe it's just the lighting or maybe it's red dreadlocks.

I don't really know what this is, but she also is shaped like Humpty Dumpty. So there you go. This is April O 'Neil. Again, I just can't imagine. Listen, we all, listen, your black friend, I know you got one.

You got a black friend. Go ask your black friend if this is something that they like. They like when Aragorn becomes black, even though he's not really black. It's just black in the magic card and April O 'Neil becomes black as well.

And then there's, of course, there's this one which somebody sent me. This is Anne Boleyn. Anne Boleyn is not a, is not a fictional character. This is a historical figure. And she was not black, but she is black now.

She's black now. If you knew that. Some people are saying this is just laziness, like they don't want to create new characters, so they just use the old characters and make them black to try to make money or something like that.

Maybe, maybe there's some of that there, but I can't imagine they're making too much money. I just don't think that there's that many black people out there that are, that are just like this ridiculous, where they're just like, oh, it's black April.

I mean, man, I wasn't going to watch Ninja Turtles, but now I am. It's black April. I just don't see it. I just don't see it. In any case, let's jump in and make sure you ask your black friend and let me know in the comments below.

I got a black friend. Do you got a black friend? I got a black friend. All right. All right. So let's jump into a public school. We've got Pennington here, Dr. Pennington, that is. And he, you know, Dr. Pennington had some good stuff to say.

But if you remember, he just wasn't willing to make any clear statements. He's like, yeah, you know, it's all about, you know, you know, making sure that you're teaching them to love God. And I know that the public school doesn't do that.

So but maybe that'll help you to say it's still a tough call. Tough call.

Public School as a Formative Influence on Children

I have a choice. But if you think about education as formative of the person, I think it's for us what it meant was we wanted to, you know, be the primary influence. And while I agree with Jen that the home is absolutely central.

I know when our kids were little, we were thinking, do we want to be away from them for their waking hours, these eight hours a day that are very formative as opposed to what we could give them? And we were able to do it.

It involved a lot of sacrifices and difficulties. But and we didn't homeschool forever. We ended up shifting gears at various points. But for us, it was the way to pursue this idea of developing people in a certain way.

And so that's why we did that. And I look forward to further discussion. All right.

All right. So so, yeah, again, you know, most of John Pennington's, Dr. Pennington's presentation is good. It's just like there's just there's just an unwillingness amongst Big Eva people to actually, you know, go for the jugular in an argumentative kind of a way, not like, you know, kill someone.

But like, like, look, if you understand this is about knowing God and loving God and learning about his creation because it's his creation and it's a whole worldview thing, it's a formative to the person.

It's all about your worldview. If you understand that and you accept that and you acknowledge that, then you don't send them into a place where for eight hours a day, they're learning to oppose the opposite of that worldview.

If you can help it, you don't you don't you know, why would you why would you handicap them like that? Look, let's just say you're able to win out and they can survive public school. You know, your influence is better and more more formative than the influence that they have for eight hours a day at school.

Let's just say you had that. But why even why even go that route? Why not just do all of it? If your influence is so positive and so good and the influence of the church is so positive and so good, which it should be, if you're a Christian, it is.

Why wouldn't you want to have those extra eight hours to influence them? Why not? If you're looking at education as not a neutral thing, as something that is about, you know, fear of the Lord as the beginning of wisdom, and you really believe that, then how could you go any other way?

Pennington won't say that. He'll just say, you know, me, me, me, me, me, me, God's best for you, like kill him and ha because he doesn't really like there's there's really no love there, right? There's no fire in the belly because there's no love there.

There's just sort of a, I'm going to, I know the right answer, but I don't want to offend anybody. And so I'm not going to really say what needs to be said. That's the problem here. It's like, it's, it, there's no love here.

That's the thing that so much of these good faith debates are just a debate that lacks love. When there is no fire in the belly for the truth, you lack love. That is your problem. It's not because you're trying to be winsome.

It's not because you're trying to be nice. It's because you lack love. First of all, you lack love for God and God's truth. It's his truth that you're defending, which is why there should be some fire in the belly.

But number two, it's love for people. You don't love someone. If you're not willing to tell them the truth about sending their kids to an enemy indoctrination camp, if you're not willing to tell them that truth straight up, no chaser, you don't love them enough.

I'm not going to say you don't love them at all, but you don't love them enough. That's the problem with the gospel coalition. That's the problem with these good faith debates. That's the problem with big Eva in general.

They don't love people enough and they don't love the Lord enough. It's just that simple. Their desire for respectability, their desire to be invited to the table, their desire for, for, for, for quite frankly, to be friends with the world is overriding their love for God and their love for their neighbor.

Big Eva does not love their neighbor enough. That is the point. That's why you get the kind of articles that they produce. That's why you get the limp wristed kind of just, you know, gay adjacent, female adjacent type stuff.

It's because they don't love their neighbor enough and they don't love God enough. That's the problem.

Flourishing, Love, and the Limits of Winsomeness

Yeah, I love that both of you somewhat providentially, maybe ironically too, you both mentioned flourishing. You mentioned the Sermon on the Mount stuff that both of you are known for. So my church is actually going through your study right now.

Providentially it's because all big Eva talks in the same mealy mouthed, wormy, weaselly kind of way. Well, you live in a flourishing, like of course that that's, that's their battleground. They need to, they need to define flourishing.

Why not just, why not just, I'm going to be nice. His church is going through their, her study.

Oh, gross. Now, and I've been reading your excellent commentary. And so when you talk about flourishing and salt and light, I'm, I'm, I know these are things you've thought through a good bit. Well, let's start out.

I would just like to hear a little bit about your stage of life. Yeah. We, you know, we know that you have five kids and you have six kids. What kind of stage of life are you in now? How old are they just in general?

Mine are 26, 25, 24, 24, 22. And the youngest just graduated from college in May. And so I have my oldest son has finished a PhD and is now working full time and is married and about to have, they're about to have their first child.

My daughter is married rather inconveniently to an air force pilot. We're very proud of him, but they're very far away right now. And she has one child. And then I have a daughter who is currently in med school down in Houston and another daughter who is working in social services and then a son who's going to go into nursing.

So that's kind of where we ended up. I actually ended up with a lot of STEM influence in my family and like they all are very good communicators. Matt has a degree in engineering and a minor in English.

I'm like, there it is. I got that English in there. Yeah. Yeah. So that's where they are. And Jeff and I just putter around the house wondering when everyone's going to come home. No, that's not true.

We've been enjoying. Good one. Good one, Jen. In their adulthood.

Fair number of them live nearby. Good. Yeah. Thanks. Tell me about your family. Yeah. So we, ours are slightly younger, but some overlap. 26. I was impressed how you did that so quickly. How old are my kids?

They keep changing ages. It's weird. Yeah, exactly. 26, 25 or something like that. 22. They're somewhere in there. Down to 17. 26 to 17. We'll go with that. And we have two out of college, two that are seniors in college, and one that just started art school.

That's the fifth kid. And then we have a What's your angle, guy?

I want to know why he's asking this. Again, they've had different educational experiences throughout. What is your angle? But they all live in town except for the one that just went away to art school.

And we love being together. We spend a lot of time together. And we love adult children, you know, and I can't wait till grandchildren as well.

Do you think he's doing this so like, you can like, it's like, see, you guys both had different choices and you just have such successful, loving families. And so see, it's totally right, no matter what you do, because you, like that's, I think that's probably why he's doing it.

Let's see if he reveals his gambit, though. That's pretty much the standard for these debates. Like just like normalizing poor decisions, normalizing, you know, winsome takes on things and stuff like that.

There's nothing right and good about putting your kids in the position that Jen Wilkin put her kids in that position. It's not going to work out the same for everybody. In fact, it might not even work out for her kids.

Hopefully not. Hopefully they're all believers. And, you know, they're, you know, they're doctors too. They're doctors and engineers and stuff like that. And they're still loving the Lord. Hopefully all of that is true.

I'm a believer. My brother and sister are believers. We went to public school. It doesn't mean it's a good idea to send your kids to public school just because it worked out for me and my family.

So they've, they've all had different journeys. They study different things and do different things. But ours are mostly in the creative side. And you and I have joked about this before, you know, so we, we didn't raise STEM kids.

We raised creative kids, which means we're all poor and emotionally happy.

Well, Jen, one thing that Jonathan mentioned. It's tough to make you puke.

Honestly, like, it's just, like, I've never, you know how, like, sometimes people will eat a dessert and they're like, oh, it's just too sweet. I've never understood what that was like. I like sweet desserts.

You know what I mean? Maybe I like them a little too much. I'm doing a little too much bloat maxing these days. In any case, um, but this kind of thing, this kind of presentation, it's just like, it's so sweet and chummy and they're just like laughing at each other's stupid jokes.

Just enough to make you sick.

It was Deuteronomy 6 and he, I think he phrased it as eight hours a day. I mean, you know, I, I've heard people calculate from K through 12, 15 ,000 hours that the children are gone in school. And so I know you agree with Deuteronomy 6.

You want to see that play out in your home. Actually, I haven't heard it before. So thank you. This is the first time you hear it. Old testimony. So how does, how does that play out in your context when, when, for those 15 ,000 hours, some, you know, you know what they're getting, how are you?

I don't think she does know what they're getting. I think she thinks they're getting some, some kind of neutral education because she kept praising it. Oh, it's just good. They're going to get a wonderful education.

And it's like, well, they'll, they'll learn some true facts. Like two plus two does equal four. That's true. But the whole worldview is, is, is upside down. It's antichrist. It's not what the way the world works is not really the way that they teach it.

They teach the world how it works in a different way, in a different reasons. The whys and the, and the who's and all that. It's all not correct. And so I don't know, I'm not so sure she knows what they're getting during those 1500 hours or whatever it is.

How does Deuteronomy six play out in your home? Yeah.

Well, I think what having them in public school did for us was it really drove home the emphasis of the shared time that we did have being vital. And so you heard in the age range of my kids, they're all very close in age.

It's all within a four year range. And so you can imagine if we had each child, even in one activity that the likelihood we would have family dinners was going to drop significantly. Like I remember even when they were one of my shining moments as a ministry parent was in their early years where we ended up pulling them from the scripture memory program that happened on Wednesday nights at the church because they were getting to bed too late, you know, and it was taking another night out that we had together.

And so with our kids, we put a pretty heavy limitation on extracurricular activities. We said one or none, and some of them did none. And I'll tell you, counter-cultural is when your child doesn't have an alter identity involved in a sport or a musical instrument or something like that.

I did actually... It's too controversial. Yeah. I mean, kid's sport. I would imagine. Extracurricular activities are crazy. Yeah. And that really is... One of my hot takes around this is that a lot of times parents end up giving back even more hours to these other endeavors that they're pulling, not just pulling kids outside of the home.

So let me get this straight, Jen.

Your hot take here is that they pull their kids out of public school, but they're doing eight hours a day of extracurricular activities. That's your hot take? And that's just as bad as learning, you know, an antichrist worldview for eight hours a day.

You know, they're doing allegedly eight hours of baseball and soccer and flute practice. But I don't know why I did that. Baseball and soccer, those are more boys things. And then flutes. Guys play the flute.

Jazz flute. Yeah. Jazz flute's pretty good. Anyway, that's her hot take is that they give it back and that's... And her shining moment. Did you catch that? Her shining moment as a ministry parent. I don't know.

Was this a joke? Was pulling her kids out of scripture memory class. Her shiny moment. And then she said, one of the benefits of public school is that because they're gone for eight hours a day learning an antichrist worldview that hates God and teaches your kids to hate God as well, it made us appreciate and value our family time all the more.

I just can't even... Send your kids to public school. Why? Well, you got to love your neighbor. Think of the black kids, by the way. That's basically what she's saying there. You need it because they need to know that they're growing in grace.

And how else are they going to know that they're growing in grace because they're going to be around their raw and authentic public school friends instead of their fake and phony baloney Christian friends?

They'll never know. So that's another reason. Any other reasons, Jen? Yeah, sure. I got another reason. Because if you keep them out of public school, then you're going to overload their time with extracurriculars.

And that's bad for some reason. Sports are bad. Any other reasons, Jen? Oh, yeah, sure. I got another reason. It'll help you value your family time more and you'll eat dinner together. If you don't send your kids to public school, you're never going to eat dinner together because they're going to be at baseball practice, obviously.

Any other ideas, Jen? Yeah, sure. My shining moment as a minister, as a female minister, whatever that's supposed to mean, my shiny moment is when I pulled my kids out of Bible memorization class because they weren't getting enough sleep.

They needed their rest to go to public school in the morning. We're not done yet. I mean, we're halfway done. We're halfway done with this. I have to say that Jen's presentation is by far the stupidest presentation that I have heard from these good faith debates.

And that is quite an achievement. I have heard some stupid arguments. I have heard some ridiculous emoting. I have heard some dumb stories. I've heard some bad stuff. This is just a clinic. She is putting on a clinic of how to say stupid.

How many stupid things can she say in a row? That's my question because it's pretty impressive. It's like there's like this string of stupid things that she puts together and somehow it's an argument for public school and how it's the Christian ideal.

And then she gets mad when you say, why did you say this? And she's like, well, I didn't say that. You're not being charitable. It's like, what? But you did say it. No, no, no. The problem is not me. It's you're not being charitable.

I got to say, tell me in the comments section, is this the worst presentation of the good faith debates? We've seen some doozies. We've seen some bad ones. I think this is the worst. There's no redeeming qualities here.

At least the other ones had something going for them. I mean, that British lady, she had a British accent and that was pleasant to listen to. That British lady, by the way, oh my goodness. She wrote, you guys heard about that gospel coalition article that was like people were saying was pornographic.

I didn't read the article because who cares? But anyway, it got pulled down and there's multiple apologies because it offended women or something like that. And Rebecca McLaughlin, that British chick, she wrote this thread about how that guy is such a great guy and she loves that guy, but she's glad that his life is ruined and his endorsements are being pulled and he's no longer on the Keller, you know, apologetics group.

And it's like, these people are freaking twisted, man. Like they're twisted. It's like, oh, this guy's a great guy, a good brother to the Lord, but I'm glad he no longer has any influence. And he's like, like, it's just unreal.

These guys are vicious, vicious. When I say they, they don't have any love. They have no love for their neighbor, no love for God, no love for the brethren. I'm serious. These people have not love. They have all these things.

They've got smooth, buttery sounding words. They've got winsomeness. They've got stupid clothing. They've got all of it, but they lack love. They have not love. What good is the rest of it? They've got the best speaking positions.

They've got the conference speaking. They've got the book deals. They got it all. They've got teachers. They've got people reading their work studies, their Bible studies. They've got the audience. They have not love.

They don't even have the first idea what love is. It's like, I'm glad he was pulled from all his positions. I'm glad he's no longer part of this. I'm glad that he's not invited to the conference anymore.

I'm glad all this, all this, all his opportunities are closed because he wrote an article that offended women. I'm glad, but he's a great guy. God bless him. Be warm and be filled. It's like, what's wrong with these people?

They're twisted, man. They're twisted. If you're in these Big Eva circles, man, watch your back. I say it as I have this exacto knife. Watch your back. These people lack love to such a degree that I would not feel comfortable with any of these types of people watching my dog for the weekend.

I would not feel comfortable with it. It's messed up, man. It's messed up. Let's let her continue. It's almost like you should not watch anymore so she doesn't embarrass herself anymore, but let's just keep going.

Family Time, Extracurriculars, and the Public School Defense

Extended periods of time, but where each member of the family sort of develops their own identity around that activity and their primary place of belonging begins to be in that peer group or that setting versus in the home.

We were vigilant about shared time together. It wasn't just being in the home together. It was being in the home together, doing things together. Because you think about even the way that the

Hey, Jen, what about that passage on Deuteronomy? He brought up some scripture. You said you had this convictional scriptural case. You didn't bring up any. He brought up some scripture. Why don't you respond to that?

Oh, well, you know, one of the things that my shining moment in ministry was pulling my kids out of scripture memory group. And also we guarded our personal time because extracurriculars are bad. And if you don't go to public school, you're going to find your identity in extracurriculars.

You're not going to eat dinner together. And you might even go to Bible memory class because you don't have to wake up at a certain hour to go to school with everyone else. So you might actually send your kids to scripture memory class because there's flexibility there.

And that would be terrible. It's constructed now. This is how she's responding to the question about scripture. Jen, what about the scripture? Yeah, yeah. Bible memory class, no bueno because they weren't getting enough rest for first period.

So that we can each have our individual spaces. Unreal. And so we purposefully stacked them up as roommates in their rooms and we purposefully.

Had everybody Yeah, because you can't do that if they're not in public school. If they're not in public school, how are they going to have the same room? I mean, there's no bunk beds allowed if you're not in public school.

No bunk beds allowed. What is she talking about? Honestly, Jen, what are you talking about?

In your room alone, it was we were all in shared spaces together as much as possible. So we were definitely aware of the time that was being given to the education space being time that wouldn't be family time.

Although another mitigating factor for us was that my kids were essentially a peer group for one another moving through school together. They always had someone right there with them. So whatever was going on in their actual peer group was going to be to some degree, they were insulated because they had a peer who was also a best friend right there.

That's really helpful. It's not helpful. Why are you lying?

Dude, what is your name anyway? Dude in the weird jacket and the soft colored clothing. Why are you lying to her? That wasn't helpful at all. You asked her about a passage of scripture and she told you that unless your kids go to public school, I mean, how are they going to be friends with each other?

How are we going to eat dinner together? How are we going to have family like what? This is another this is another thing with Big Eva always does. They say what you said is helpful no matter what. So if it's the if it's the stupidest thing they've ever heard, they'll tell you it was helpful if it was the smartest thing they've ever heard.

They'll tell you if it was helpful if it was halfway, it was a middle of the road kind of thing. It's kind of helpful, but not that much. They'll tell you it was helpful. And so you're now as the audience, you have no idea what's what you have no idea what's up, which way is up, which way is down.

It's all just helpful. After all, I mean, there's no right or wrong here. I know she was asked a direct question about scripture and answered with stupidity. But it was helpful, though. It was definitely helpful because why was it helpful?

Does it help me understand scripture more? No, it does not. Does it help me understand this issue more? No, it does not. What it does do is it gives you an excuse to continue sending your kids to Caesar for eight hours a day.

Because after all, if you're doing that, you're definitely going to guard your family time more. You notice like so much of her argument to like, she's making the case for everybody that this is totally OK for you to do.

And in her situation, it's like, well, you know, yeah, they each had their own little friend that was in the same age. And they all and in our situation, we had so many people in our lives that were in the public school.

So we knew they were good in our situation. We knew this. We knew that. We knew that. And it's like her very particular situation, which I bet you she's playing fast and loose with some of those details.

I bet you. But obviously, like her exception to the rule where her somehow her children survived doesn't make it a good idea for you. And then she's making the case that it should be something you could consider, too.

In fact, she calls it the Christian ideal. So as much as she wants to run from that now and say, I never said it's for everybody. Right. But it's the Christian ideal. So why wouldn't it be for everybody in almost every case?

It's so. That's the thing, guys. It's just a lack of love when he says that's helpful. He just lacks love for Jen Wilkin. Quite frankly, he lacks love for his audience, because if he actually loved Jen and if he actually loved his audience and he had the right amount of love, he'd say that was all great stuff.

Very helpful. But Jen, what I was actually asking about was that Deuteronomy passage that he brought up, because you really didn't address that. You just said you protect family time. And so I'm not really so much talking about family time.

I'm talking about like how how how does sending them eight hours a day to learn from the pagans a pagan worldview? How does that fit in with Deuteronomy or whatever? It's like in your context, how did it fit in?

It's like, really, the only real answer is, you know, in our situation, you know, we had a how could how could you defend it? Well, the point is, you can't defend it. It doesn't fit in. It doesn't fit in.

You have to now say, well, I understand for eight hours a day, I'm sending them to not do Deuteronomy. I forget the quotation. But don't worry. We still found time after dinner or before dinner to do that.

So yeah, I know it was like four hours a day of their waking hours versus eight. But don't worry. Somehow it's OK. That's why she had to do that. I mean, to be quite honest, she had to do what she did because there's nothing she could say.

It was it does. It's not obedient to Deuteronomy, whatever, to I should I should have looked that up. But it's not obedient to his passage to do this. That's the real answer. But she has to say, well, you know, and basically ignore the question.

And he has to be like, yeah, but but he won't, of course, because that's not the point of this. It's not about clarity. It's about obfuscating, really.

Socioeconomic Diversity and the Christian Ideal of Education

So I'll put a little bit of my cards on the table. We do. My kids go to a Christian classical school in Orlando. And I actually am. Something you said is a concern of mine in our context. And it's the exposure to different socioeconomic classes, different races, different adversities.

And so I'm we're really praying through. How do we give our children that exposure that you get very naturally in the public school? What have you all done to that? Why do you need to?

This is something that I think should be explored. How about this? How about this one? We can explore that in this space. Why do they need that when they're kids? Because when you answer that question, then you'll know how to do it.

Is it because, you know, you need to help the poor and feed the poor? Is it because, you know, what is the reason? Why do they need to be exposed to a different socioeconomic whatever? Because if you think that through the why, you can answer the question.

Is it because they need to help the poor? Guess what? Chances are there's a soup kitchen there that you can all, you know, participate in. You can go to the parks. You can go to, you know, is it just because they need to have friends that are that are a little different than them?

Guess what? You can go to the YMCA and have a homeschool gym day. They do that. There's lots of different socioeconomic groups there. Is it because just because diversity is automatically good? Well, if that's your answer, then you've got some other problems to think through.

But just how do you do that? We're going to be praying through it. Why do you need to? And there's your answer. There you go. It's free. Listen, I give a lot of free wisdom on this channel. There you go, buddy.

Let's listen to John Pennington. And I think probably the classical schools especially struggle with that because of the cost of it for a lot of people.

But the point is, like, why do they need that in school in particular? That's the point. It's like, OK, they go to a classical school. Do they need to be educated with kids that are a different socioeconomic status than them?

No. No, they don't. Do they need to do whatever it is, play or whatever? You could figure this out on your own. This is not an insurmountable challenge. I'm praying through this. I don't know. I mean, maybe I just, maybe just my upbringing made me see this a little clearer than his upbringing.

Who knows? Who knows?

Yeah. I mean, I think that's probably happened in church more than any other way. However, even then, churches tend to be kind of homogenous as well. So I just acknowledge that. And what's the problem?

Again, what's the reason? What's the reason that's such a serious problem? I think you need to think that through because I think most of the time it's actually not a problem at all. You're just imagining this problem.

But if it really is a problem, we're not serving the poor enough at our church. OK, that can be addressed. That can be addressed.

That is a disadvantage of a lot of private school and homeschool situations. I don't know what to say beyond that. I share that value as well. I don't know.

I share that value, but I don't know. I didn't do it. I definitely share that value to value diversity, but you know, it beats me. I don't know how to do it. Oh man, this will be my last comment. Pennington over here.

Allow me to translate. I've got the Big Eva translation program running in my mind at all times. Let me translate what John Pennington just said. He said, good point. I know I'm supposed to say I value diversity and different races, getting exposure to the different race and the different socioeconomics.

I know I'm supposed to say it, so I'm going to say that I value it, but I actually don't because I didn't do anything about that in my situation. My kids were probably homeschooled, and my home is a homogenous situation, so we didn't feel the need to address it at all because it's really not a value that I actually share, but I know I have to say that I share it, so it's a disadvantage, I guess.

What can I say? It's a disadvantage. That's what Pennington just said. I know I'm supposed to agree that diversity in education is the most important thing, but I don't, and so we didn't address it at all.

We didn't make any steps to bring some black kids into our homeschool group because my homeschool is just my home, and the kids are just white like me. That's basically what he said. That's the thing.

It's like, you've got to challenge this stuff. This will never happen in this good faith debate. Look, this guy's like, did he really just say that? It'll never get challenged in the good faith debate, but that's what needs to be challenged.