WWUTT 830 Q&A Seventh Day Adventism?

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If you've got a friend attending a Seventh -day Adventist church, are they a

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Christian? Should you encourage them to leave that church? And what is it that they believe anyway?

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We'll be talking about that today when we Understand the Text. Many of the

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Bible stories and verses we think we know, we don't. When we Understand the Text is an online ministry committed to teaching sound doctrine and exposing the faulty.

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Visit our website at www .utt .com. Now here's our host, Pastor Gabe Hughes.

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Thank you, Becky, who is not in studio with me here today. I am flying solo, a combination of busyness this week, sickness, she's been under the weather as well, and just an opportunity to let her have some time off and spend some time with friends.

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So I'm doing this myself today, which is all right, because the subject matter that I have to tackle,

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I was concerned about how I was going to include her in that without her sitting there saying, uh -huh, through the entire show.

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Today we're going to be talking about Seventh -day Adventism. And this goes back to an email that I responded to several weeks ago.

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There was a young man who emailed, and based on the way that he was asking his questions,

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I assumed that he was being influenced by Seventh -day Adventism. But he didn't actually say that.

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So my remarks were very unprepared. They were kind of reckless. I was talking off the top of my head.

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Kaspers Ozelins, who's been a student out at Masters University and is headed to the UK, I hope it's okay that I mentioned that,

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Kaspers. He came out of Seventh -day Adventism and corrected some of the things that I said, as well as expounding upon the false teachings that are common to that particular faith.

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So I'm going to get to his email in just a moment. I've got another one related to Seventh -day

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Adventism I'm going to get to first. But starting off the show, setting everything up here, it is

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Friday when we take questions from the listeners. And you can submit your questions to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com.

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Now I am so behind on responding to emails right now that I want to try to do something a little bit more regularly.

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And that is responding to an email once a week, one email a week or something like that on my blog.

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I haven't been blogging a whole lot this year either, so I figured that's a good place to do it. So if you go to pastorgabe .com,

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that's where the emails will be featured. I'm not going to commit myself to a particular day of the week, but just somewhere in the week,

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I'll respond to another email. Maybe that will keep me on top of replying to emails, even if all

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I can respond with is a couple of sentences at a time. The most recent question that I replied to had to do with yoga, the exercise, not the dairy product.

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I know yogurt. But anyway, that was my terrible attempt at a joke. But you can read my thoughts on yoga.

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Should Christians be doing it? Go to pastorgabe .com. The blog is actually on Blogger, but pastorgabe .com

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will get you there. A reminder that we're heading to the G3 Conference in Atlanta this January, January 17th through the 19th.

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And you can still register by going to g3conference .com. I just got word earlier this week that there is a pre -conference that has been added on January the 16th, put on by Sovereign Nations.

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The theme of the pre -conference is social justice and the gospel, the God -breathed hierarchy and the postmodern crisis within the church.

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How's that for a title? So that's going to be, it's a one day thing. And the speakers include

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Dr. James White, Tom Askell of Founders Ministry, Vodie Bauckam, Josh Bice, Phil Johnson, Tom Buck, and Michael O 'Fallon.

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And you can find out more details about that by going to, I guess, Sovereign Nations. I've already, I've already signed up for this.

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So I'm going to be at the pre -conference as well. But I can't remember how I got there.

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Hang on. I'm looking, I'm looking on the website. I'm on their Facebook page. So you're looking up Sovereign Nations on the, on the

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Facebook page. Let's see, click on registration, events .sovereignnations

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.com slash g3precon19. You got that? Sovereignnations .com,

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just go there and you can probably follow the way that you need to go in order to register for that.

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So if you're planning on attending G3 and you can afford an extra night while you're there, come to the pre -conference.

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I know last year, the pre -conference was, didn't Dr. White do a debate? We didn't get there in time for the debate.

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It was because all that snow, that freak snow that Atlanta got, that we weren't able to get there for the debate.

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I wanted to be there for the debate, but anyway, not a debate this year. It's going to be the Sovereign Nations pre -conference focusing on the social justice and the gospel statement is kind of the theme of that, because especially considering some of those speakers are the signers or the, what would you call them?

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The fabricators, the, the architects of the statement on the, on social justice and the gospel.

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So that'll be a great pre -conference and something I think definitely needs to be addressed.

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And then the whole G3 conference itself is going to be focused on missions, not showing partiality as we go out into the world, sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ.

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All right, let's get to some of the emails today. This first one doesn't have to do with Seventh Day Adventism, but that's coming up.

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This is from Matthew in Australia. He says, Hey, Gabe and Becky, thanks so much for your ministry. It has meant a lot to me and been a great resource of teaching and encouragement.

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I never miss a podcast and I'm so grateful to God for enabling and sustaining your ministry. Thank you,

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Matthew. Thank you. I appreciate that. I want to be able to give from Australia, but the simple give site, which is what's linked to on our website has rejected my credit card information twice now.

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Do you have any tips on how international listeners can give successfully? What about PayPal?

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I'm eager to bless you with what God has placed on my heart to give. Thanks for your help with this.

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Well, I've not promoted or plugged my PayPal because I've encouraged folks first to give through simple gift.

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The link that's on our website, www .utt .com. If you click on give, it'll give you everything that you need to know for how you can submit a donation to when we understand the text online.

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And that goes through our church. So we have some accountability there. Plus, giving to a ministry, you're able to that's a tax deductible donation.

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So that's why I encourage you to give that way. If you can go to the website and do it. I haven't been promoting the

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PayPal because it just goes straight to me. It doesn't go through the church and then I don't have accountability as much accountability for those donations.

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But if you want to, if you are, if you live internationally, you live abroad and you do want to give to the ministry.

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My PayPal account is actually through my personal email address, which is pastorgabehuesatgmail .com.

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So the way PayPal is set up, you're sending somebody money via their email address. And that's mine, pastorgabehuesatgmail .com.

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If you feel so inclined to send a donation that way, hey, I would, I would love it.

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We would appreciate it. And once again, those proceeds will help us in the expenses that we have in getting to the

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G3 conference in Atlanta, anything that we make ahead of that, which we haven't met our expenses yet, but anything extra that we have on top of what we need to get to Atlanta will just be applied to the next conference that we go to.

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And I know for sure I'm going to be heading to the Southern Baptist convention in Alabama in June.

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I don't know if there's going to be something else in there, but anyway, if you want to contribute via PayPal, that would be the way to do it.

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And thank you so much, Matthew, for your kind remarks and also your desire to want to give to the ministry that is greatly appreciated.

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All right. This first question comes from Ellen. She says, howdy, Pastor Gabe. My husband and I just got finished listening to the podcast where you discussed

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Seventh Day Adventism. There's a family I knew growing up who are SDA, and I have always wondered about their status before God.

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I talked to the parents one time a couple of years ago, and I think I remember them affirming faith alone in Christ alone.

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But in your podcast, you discussed how in the SDA there's a belief that there is a second atonement that Jesus is working on.

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I would think that if someone believes that Jesus' redemptive work is still going on, that you can't really be a

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Christian. Would you still say that SDA falls into Orthodox Christianity, even if they aren't

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Protestant? I know every church is different, and that even going to a good church doesn't mean individuals have saving faith.

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But it sure would help put my mind at ease about the family I know. Well, thank you for your question,

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Ellen. No, the SDA church does not fall within Orthodox Christianity. Even though I made the comment about how there are people who go to a

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Seventh -day Adventist church who are Christians, that does not mean that I consider the

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SDA to be Orthodox. It's not that they believe in a second atonement, but they believe that atonement is an ongoing process.

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In 1844, Jesus entered the last phase of the atonement, which was the cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary.

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So it's like taking the whole setup of the tabernacle or the temple with the

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Holy of Holies and then applying that to the heavenly realm. So Jesus has now entered into the holiest sanctuary, according to their fundamental beliefs number 24.

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It is a work of investigative judgment, which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin typified by the cleansing of the ancient

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Hebrew sanctuary on the day of atonement. In that typical service, the sanctuary was cleansed with the blood of animal sacrifices, but the heavenly things are purified with the perfect sacrifice of the blood of Jesus.

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The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore in him are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection.

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Now, having said all of that, the Seventh -day Adventists believe that Satan is our scapegoat and Satan will bear believers' sins like Jesus will take our sins and will place them upon Satan.

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Is that what the Bible says? That Satan bears our sins? First Peter 2, 24,

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Jesus Christ bore our sins in his body on the tree that we might die to sin and live to righteousness.

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And then Peter refers to Isaiah 53, by his wounds, you have been healed.

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So if part of the belief in the atonement, according to Seventh -day Adventism, involves our sins being placed upon Satan, don't they therefore believe in a different atonement?

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And if you believe in a different atonement, how could you therefore be saved? Well, if you are just covering the basics, like the basics of salvation, by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, a person will hear about that in the

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Seventh -day Adventist church. How many of them actually know that L. N. G. White, the prophetess of Seventh -day

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Adventism taught that their sins will be placed upon Satan and Satan will become our scapegoat?

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So it just compounds this idea that the atonement of the cross of Christ was not enough, according to the

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Seventh -day Adventist. When Jesus said, it is finished, apparently those words didn't mean anything because there was still something that needed to be done.

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Jesus had to go into a heavenly holy place and finish the atonement. And then he had to take our sins and place them upon Satan to do away with them.

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So this is a false understanding of the atonement of Christ, that Christ's atonement on the cross was not enough.

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It was insufficient. This is a false doctrine. It leads to several other false doctrines within the

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Seventh -day Adventist church. Now a person in the Seventh -day Adventist church can hear a basic understanding of a presentation of the gospel and they can come to faith in Jesus Christ.

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But if they are growing in the knowledge of God, if they're reading their Bible and comparing it with what the

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Seventh -day Adventist church believes, just in their 28 fundamental beliefs, I think you can take what's said in the

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Bible and compare it with those beliefs and see some problems.

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If they're growing in an understanding of the knowledge of God, they will not stay in an SDA church and you should not encourage a friend to remain

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SDA. Just the same as if you've got a friend who's Roman Catholic, you should try to tell them to leave the

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Roman Catholic church. Roman Catholic dogma does not line up with what we are taught in the scriptures.

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Just the very existence and seeding of the Pope is contrary to what we are told in the

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Bible. So though you have a friend who is part of an SDA church and they may say some things that sound

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Christian, I had a very close friend when I was in high school who was Seventh -day

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Adventist and I really couldn't tell the difference between us. That probably doesn't say much for me.

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I was not very mature at that time myself. I just knew some of the things, some of the practices he had were kind of wonky.

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But anyway, if you have an SDA friend and they say some things as far as the basics go, they sound like they are a

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Christian. They may very well be, but don't let them believe that it's okay for them to stay in that church that they are in.

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You should try to encourage them to leave and find a doctrinally sound church since the

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SDA is not Orthodox Christianity. In addition to the false doctrine of investigative judgment, some of the other false beliefs that are held by the

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SDA church include soul sleep. So when a person dies, their soul doesn't go to be with God and the body goes in the ground.

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Rather, Seventh -day Adventists believe that the soul and the body are inseparable. So the soul just kind of enters a stasis, a sleep until the day of judgment when all who have died will be resurrected and brought before the judgment seat of Christ.

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Those who believed in Jesus, I'm just going to keep it simple here. There's a lot more to it in Seventh -day

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Adventism, but those who believe in Jesus will receive eternal life.

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But those who did not believe in Jesus, their souls will be annihilated. They won't be cast into hell.

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There is no hell in Seventh -day Adventism. It's just the pulverization of the soul.

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So this is called soul annihilation. They believe in soul sleep and soul annihilation.

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There is not an eternal hell, but the soul is destroyed. The SDA also believes that Ellen G.

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White was a prophetess of God. She was one of the founders of Seventh -day Adventism.

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Now even though you will read in their own fundamental beliefs that scripture is the authority, in fact,

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I'll read that for you. This is the very first fundamental belief. The Holy Scriptures, Old and New Testaments are the written word of God given by divine inspiration.

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The inspired authors spoke and wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. In this word,

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God has committed to humanity the knowledge necessary for salvation. The Holy Scriptures are the supreme, authoritative, and infallible revelation of his will.

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They are the standard of character, the test of experience, the definitive revealer of doctrines, and the trustworthy record of God's acts in history.

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For the most part, hey, that's pretty good. There are some Protestant churches that probably don't even understand the inerrancy of the word of God as the

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Seventh -day Adventists have written about it there. Even though they say that though, even though they will say that the scriptures are their supreme authority, this still has to be tested against everything else that was said by Ellen G.

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White. So if Ellen White said something that is contrary to what the Bible says, you have to take

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Ellen White's word over the scriptures. Therefore, the scriptures are not actually the supreme authority.

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Even though they say that in their fundamental beliefs, you have to interpret what the

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Bible says according to what Ellen G. White has said about it because she is a prophetess of God, and she has said some pretty anti -biblical things like Jesus Christ is not omnipresent.

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He was appointed to his position of authority by God that he is the

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Archangel Michael. You might be going, oh, well, that's Jehovah's Witnesses. Yeah, Seventh -day Adventism, too.

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You can find that in the earliest writings. And the way that gets dismissed by some

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Seventh -day Adventist apologists is that anytime you read about the Archangel Michael in the scriptures, it's a reference to Jesus Christ.

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So they may not say that Jesus is a created being like the rest of the angels are.

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But just any time that we have a reference to Michael, it's synonymous with Christ. We're actually talking about Christ.

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So it's not quite the same as what the Jehovah's Witnesses believe, but it's it's nonetheless false.

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It is a false doctrine. And Seventh -day Adventism came out of the same movement that Jehovah's Witnesses came out of.

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So there was a time when the belief in Christ as the Archangel Michael probably was not any different than what the

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Jehovah's Witnesses believed. But that's that's one of the serious problems with Seventh -day

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Adventism is that anything Ellen G. White says goes.

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The church is not is not formed under the authority of the scriptures.

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It's formed under the authority of Ellen G. White's interpretation of the scriptures or what she says that the scriptures say.

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And then the other special revelation things that God has revealed to her as well. So even though Seventh -day

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Adventist will say that the word of God is inerrant, they don't believe that it is sufficient.

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And then, of course, the one doctrine that Seventh -day Adventism is most known for, and that is the

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Sabbath doctrine that we worship only on Saturday, the Sabbath day. And this idea that we that that any church should be meeting on Sunday is pagan.

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It's the Protestant churches are borrowing from paganism. James White, Dr. James White, responds to that pretty well.

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You can find a video of that on YouTube. I think it's the one video that comes up when you type in Dr.

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James White and Seventh -day Adventism. And he blows up the whole accusation of churches worshiping on Sunday, having derived from paganism, which is not true.

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But anyway, so Seventh -day Adventism, it requires the worship of God on Saturday.

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And some are so strict about that particular doctrine that they say at the final judgment,

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Christ will be judging everybody based on that doctrine. Were you worshiping on my day, then you were a

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Christian. But if you worshipped on any other day, then you weren't a Christian. Some SDA guys are that strict, but the church as a whole may not be.

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It's not written into their fundamental doctrines that way. Now, I don't consider SDA a heretical cult like the

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Mormons or the Jehovah's Witnesses. They preach a completely different Jesus. And so therefore, when you hear them talking about Jesus, you're putting your faith in the

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Jesus of Charles Taze Russell or the Jesus of Joseph Smith.

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However, I still would not recommend the SDA church to anyone. If you know someone who is

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SDA, you should lovingly encourage them to leave. I would recommend looking up a particular resource by Colleen Tinker.

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It's called Comparing Seventh -day Adventism with Historic Christian Faith. This is a PDF. If you go to lifeassuranceministries .org,

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you should be able to find that. And it'll give you kind of a basic sheet on what

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Adventism says and what Christianity believes. And that reference is just helpful if you have

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Seventh -day Adventist friends. Gives you kind of a cheat sheet so you know some of the things that they believe.

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Now, you still have to be careful with that because if they're a fairly nominal Seventh -day Adventist, they may not actually know some of the things that you're reading about there on the

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Adventism sheet. But at least you get kind of an idea of the things that are taught there so you know not to be comfortable with a friend that is attending that particular church.

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And you might be able to witness to them and win them out of that particular faith.

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I hope that was helpful for you, Ellen. And thank you for writing in. All right. So now I want to get to the email that I kind of prefaced the show talking about.

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And this is the email from Kaspers. Hey, brother, regarding your comments on Adventism, I just wanted to make a few remarks and remind you once again,

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Kaspers came out of the Seventh -day Adventist faith, so he knows a little bit more about it than I do.

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First of all, Ellen G. White's husband is named James White, by the way. A few weeks ago when

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I was responding to that particular email, I could not remember her husband's name. That should have stuck out in my mind.

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Husband's name just happens to be James White. The SDA organization is definitely not like the

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SBC. OK, so the comment that I made was that the SDA is like the SBC in the sense that every

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Seventh -day Adventist church is autonomous. So what you hear taught in one

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SDA church may not necessarily be the thing that is taught in another SDA church. So by comparison,

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I said it's like the Southern Baptist Convention in that way. Every church is autonomous. But Kaspers is sure to point out that it's not like the

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SBC. It is one of two most hierarchical religious organizations in the world.

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The other one being Catholicism. Wow. Every church must belong to a local conference, which itself belongs to a local union, which belongs to a division, which is under the general conference.

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Thus, for example, the church I used to attend prior to my coming to Christ was in Los Angeles under the

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Southern California Conference of Seventh -day Adventists, which in turn is part of the

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Pacific Union, which in turn is part of the North American division, which in turn is under the general conference.

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It's also my understanding that much of the tithe money and offerings are first funneled up that chain, after which they are distributed globally by the general conference.

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Right now, American Seventh -day Adventists and others in Europe are rebelling against the ordination doctrine of the church, which kind of sort of forbids full ordination of women to become pastors.

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That's another complicated story. So the general conference is trying to pressure them through the relevant chain of command to comply.

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It's so ironic that a church with a female founder is engaged in such a debate. That is indeed ironic.

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That's pretty crazy. So there aren't women pastors, even though Ellen G. White is the founder of Seventh -day

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Adventism, and the understanding of the Bible must be funneled through what

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Ellen G. White taught about it or said God revealed to her. Anyway, next point that Kaspers makes, many of those who abandon

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Millerism after the Great Disappointment. So I talked about how Jehovah's Witnesses and Seventh -day

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Adventists came out of the same movement, the Millerites. And then after the Great Disappointment, when Miller made the prediction about Jesus' return and it didn't happen, there were many who had sold property.

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They had gotten rid of all their stuff. They were ready for Christ's return. And then when Jesus didn't return, it resulted in what became known as the

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Great Disappointment. And I said many just walked away from the faith after that, or they were divided up into Jehovah's Witnesses and Seventh -day

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Adventists. And so Kaspers says many of those who abandoned Millerism after the Great Disappointment, in fact, returned to Orthodox Christianity, though some, of course, did leave the faith.

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And Charles Taze Russell, the founder of the Jehovah's Witnesses, was deeply influenced by much early

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Adventist teaching. So I mentioned that Ellen G. White, like the

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Jehovah's Witnesses, believed that Jesus Christ is the

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Archangel Michael. This is from one of her books entitled The Desire of the Ages.

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And it's a very, very long book, as a matter of fact, over 700 pages, I believe. And on page 99, here is what

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Ellen G. White says. The words of the angel, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God, show that he holds a position of high honor in the heavenly courts.

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When he came with a message to Daniel, he said, there is none that holdeth me in these things but Michael Christ, your prince.

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Of Gabriel, the Savior speaks in the revelation, saying he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant,

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John. Revelation 1 .1. And to John, the angel declared, da -da -da -da -da, anyway, on and on. So there, in The Desire of the

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Ages, Ellen G. White makes a reference to Christ being the

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Archangel Michael. And you can actually read some of this yourself, as a matter of fact. There's a bunch of Ellen White's publications that are available for free at EllenWhite .info.

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That's where I've gone to read her stuff. And it was years ago when I was studying

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Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, and Seventh Day Adventists, only I just kind of left the

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SDA studies behind and was mainly focusing on Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormonism.

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But anyway, you can read some of those books for free there at EllenWhite .info. I don't know why you would need to, but it would be, if you were to go to that website and you were to click on the earliest writings link, for example, let's just take that publication by itself, and you just pick any random page in that book, earliest writings by Ellen G.

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White, any page that you land on, actually, I think all of that is separated out by chapter, but any chapter that you land on, you're going to find something on that page that is contrary to what is said in the gospel.

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So it's not like she occasionally says things that are off. It was all the time.

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Ellen White was, and she was just as bad as Miller in making predictions about the coming of Christ that did not come true.

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There was one time she made a prediction about Jesus' return that didn't happen, and then she blamed the

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Adventists. She said the Seventh -day Adventists didn't have enough faith, and if they had enough faith,

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Jesus would have returned. So it's really their fault that Jesus didn't come back. So she was just as bad, made some prophecies that did not come true.

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That just kind of runs through the whole realm of Jehovah's Witnesses and Seventh -day

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Adventists. Charles Taze Russell and Ellen G. Wright really were cut from the same cloth. So going on with Casper's email, he says, speaking of which, the

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Sabbath and investigative judgment are far from the only problems with SDAism. Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree with that.

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He says, Trinity, all SDA founders were rank Aryans. In other words, they denied the

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Trinity. They believe that Jesus Christ was a being who was created by God. Casper says, while there is still a stream of Aryanism in the modern church,

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SDAs like to boast that Ellen G. Wright cured the church of that heresy. In fact, she held to what is best characterized as tritheism.

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She rarely, if ever, used the term Trinity, speaking instead about the three heavenly worthies or the three great powers.

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So going to some of Ellen White's writings, in 1850, she wrote, I have often seen the lovely

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Jesus, that he is a person. I asked him if his father was a person and had a form like himself, said

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Jesus, I am in the express image of my father's person. In her book on evangelism, she wrote, we are to cooperate with the three highest powers in heaven, the

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Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. And these powers will work through us, making us workers together with God.

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In 1904, she wrote, those who proclaim the third angel's message must put on the whole armor of God that they may stand boldly at their post in the face of detraction and falsehood, fighting the good fight of faith, resisting the enemy with the word.

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It is written, keep yourselves where the three great powers of heaven, the

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Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit can be your efficiency. These powers work with one who gives himself unreservedly to God.

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The strength of heaven is at the command of God's believing ones. The man who takes

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God as his trust is barricaded by an impregnable wall. So let me read that second to last sentence again.

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The strength of heaven is at the command of God's believing ones.

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Is that right? Do you command the powers of heaven? No, you do not.

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The powers of heaven are not at our beck and call, which is a very Roman Catholic concept, because isn't it the priest, every mass who is calling

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Christ into the Eucharist so that it would become the literal body of Christ and the cup becomes the literal blood of Jesus?

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The priest has a command over Christ in that sense. So, yeah, Ellen G. White says that if you are a believer, that you command the powers of heaven, that's false doctrine.

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Casper's goes on to say early Adventism even had a physical God. And today there are still signs that this pervades some

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SDA thought. So going back to that statement that I read from White in 1850, she said, having a conversation with Jesus, and there's a red flag right there,

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I have often seen the lovely Jesus that he is a person. I asked him if his father was a person and had a form like himself.

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And Jesus said, I am in the express image of my father's person.

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So in other words, Jesus said to Ellen G. White, as I look, that's how God looks.

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Earlier than that, 1845, White wrote, I had a vision of events commencing with the mighty cry.

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I saw a throne and on it sat the father and the son. I gazed on Jesus' countenance and admired his lovely person.

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The father's person I could not behold, for a cloud of glorious light covered him. I asked

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Jesus if his father had a form like himself. He said that he had, but I could not behold it.

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For he said, if you should once behold the glory of this person, you would cease to exist.

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Remember what we just read this past week in John chapter four, Jesus said to the

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Samaritan woman at the well, God is spirit. He does not have a physical form.

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And anyone who says otherwise speaks contrary to the scriptures. This is Joseph Smith.

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He said the same thing, that God is a man of flesh and bone. Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, John four, 24.

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God is spirit. And those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth.

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So Casper's goes on in his email to say Adventists, liberal, conservative, evangelical are all physicalists.

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They deny the existence of a separate soul. I talked about that a little bit ago. That is a very important point, because as I always tell people,

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I could never understand the new birth because I had no concept of my soul being dead in my trespasses and sins.

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According to what we read in Ephesians two, one to Adventists, whether they express it or not, sin is more what you do than a status.

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That's why to take an extreme example, the president of the general conference has said that a vegetarian lifestyle is important for Seventh -day

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Adventists, since it nourishes the brain and allows one to better communicate with God.

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Here's a here's a little factoid for you. So this is kind of like a bonus fact to go with that.

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Kellogg's Corn Flakes was an Adventists invention. It was

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John Harvey Kellogg, who is a Seventh -day Adventist living in Battle Creek, Michigan, where the convention was first organized.

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He wanted to come up with a healthy vegetarian breakfast dish that was contrary to egg, sausage and bacon, you know, which is that's that's a typical breakfast food.

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Well, he didn't want that. He wanted to come up with a vegetarian alternative, and he also wanted it to be bland because he did not believe that food should be exciting, lest it arouse other appetites.

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Hint, hint. You know what I'm talking about? So he thought that food and that were interconnected. So if he was going to invent some new food, that it should be bland.

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And he came up with Kellogg's Corn Flakes. It's the vegetarian alternative to a meaty breakfast.

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There you go. Kellogg's Corn Flakes, a Seventh -day Adventist invention. All right. Going on here. Casper says, as I mentioned, there is no concept of the new birth, though you will see it cleverly worded in the fundamental beliefs.

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Everyone is on a journey to Christ. Ellen G. White's most famous book that everyone loves is called

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Steps to Christ, which I think you can read that one, too, on that that website that I mentioned in the sense it is much like in that sense, it is much like Catholicism because of my

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Seventh -day Adventist background. I'm very wary of covenant theology and some aspects of the

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London Baptist confession of faith. I think the Adventists trick a lot of Christians when they point to the

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Fourth Commandment and claim that most Christians are being disobedient and inconsistent.

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I would see more discontinuity between the old covenant law as a whole given to Israel and Christ's new covenant commands informed as they are by Old Testament scriptures.

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So with Paul, I affirm that I am not under the law, but I become as one under the law in order to win my

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Jewish friends to Christ. Yet that does not mean that I am without a law since I am under the law of Christ.

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Casper's goes on with his next point. You rightly mentioned how the Sabbath is fulfilled in Christ and we enter into a permanent rest.

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But I see the same thing going on with all the other commandments as well. Jesus said not one jot or tittle will pass from the law until all is fulfilled.

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He is not only the fulfillment of the ceremonial law, but also everything else.

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Amen. That's a great point, Casper's. So Paul has said in both Galatians and Romans that love is the fulfilling of the law.

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And one of the things that I'm learning as I grow as a Christian is the truth of that.

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If you love God, then you're not going to worship idols because you love

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God. And so therefore, you will not bow down to any vain thing or you will not have anything in your life that you will exalt to the place of God because you love the

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Lord, your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength. You will also not covet, which is idolatry, as Paul explains in Colossians chapter three, because coveting means

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I need this thing in order to be happy. I'm not satisfied with God. He's not sufficient. So I need this other thing.

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Well, the more you have focused upon God and you understand that his grace is sufficient for you, then you don't need the other thing in order to be happy because that thing won't truly satisfy you.

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You are truly satisfied in Christ. Likewise, we've been instructed to love one another.

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If you are loving others, you're not murdering them. Amen. You're not speaking ill of them.

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You consider their needs ahead of your own. You will not lust after another person because to lust after them is to treat them as less than a person.

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You won't lie about somebody or bear false witness about them because that would be unloving.

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So when we understand, as Jesus said, that the greatest commandments are to love the Lord, your

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God, and to love your neighbor as yourself. And this is the fulfilling of the law.

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All the law and the prophets hinge on these two commands. Then when you focus on those things, this is the fulfilling of the law.

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As Paul said in Galatians chapter five, walk by the spirit and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

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For the desires of the flesh are against the spirit and the desires of the spirit are against the flesh.

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These are opposed to each other to keep you from doing the things that you want to do.

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James four seven, submit yourselves therefore to God, resist the devil and he will flee from you.

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Draw near to God and he will draw near to you. So this is something that I'm coming to understand as I'm growing in my sanctification as well.

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That Christ has not only fulfilled the ceremonial law, but he also fulfills everything else.

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If we focus ourselves entirely upon Christ and pursue him, that we may be made more like him as we are being sanctified, shaped more into the image of our savior, then we'll come to understand that more and more in this walk of faith.

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Casper's goes on his next point. Of course, seventh day Adventists hold to annihilationism. Mentioned that a moment ago, which for me was the one thing that prevented me from understanding the gospel.

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Truly, I could not appreciate Christ's sacrifice on my behalf because I did not believe that my sin was so bad that I deserved an eternity of eternities in hell for it.

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I could not grasp that Christ drank my hell. It's a very serious issue in my opinion that is sweeping

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American evangelicalism and worries me greatly. So what does

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Casper's mean by that understanding that Christ drank my hell?

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Well, remember that in the garden of Gethsemane, on the night that Jesus was arrested right after his last supper with his disciples and before Judas showed up to kiss him on the cheek and he would be arrested.

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Jesus went into the garden to pray and he fell on his face. This is

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Matthew 26 verse 39 and he prayed saying, my father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me, nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will.

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And he came to the disciples and he found them sleeping and he said to Peter, so could you not watch with me one hour, watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation.

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The spirit is indeed willing, but the flesh is weak. Again for the second time, he went away and prayed, my father, if this cannot pass, unless I drink it, your will be done.

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And again, he came and found them sleeping for their eyes were heavy. So leaving them again, he went away and prayed for the third time saying the same words again.

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What does this mean for Jesus to pray to the father? Let this cup pass from me, but if it can't pass from me, unless I drink it, your will be done.

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Well, this is in reference to something that we find in Psalm 75, eight for in the hand of the

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Lord, there is a cup with foaming wine, well mixed, and he pours out from it and all of the wicked of the earth shall drain it down to the dregs.

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This is a reference to the wrath of God and what filled Christ with dread about going to the cross was not that he was going to have his hands pierced and he was going to hang there and asphyxiate.

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Although that was surely a horrible death, the scourging that he experienced wearing a crown of thorns, hanging naked on the cross, bleeding, experiencing the shame that he experienced there.

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That was certainly bad. But what was the worst part about what he was about to endure is that he would be taking the wrath of God upon himself for our sins.

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Isaiah 53, again, it pleased God to crush him and by his wounds, we are healed.

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Jesus Christ is the atoning sacrifice for our sins. As John said, John the

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Baptist, when he saw Jesus walking by, behold, the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.

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How does he do that? By giving himself as a sacrifice for our sins.

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Jesus Christ took the wrath of God that we deserve for our sins. He took our wrath, took

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God's wrath that we deserve upon himself and what he gives us instead is his righteousness.

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It's that doctrine of double imputation. In 2 Corinthians 5, verse 21, for our sake, he became sin who knew no sin that we might become the righteousness of God in him.

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Christ drank the wrath of God. It's what we deserve for our sin and it's what

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Christ did for us. God shows his love for us in that while we were yet sinners,

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Christ died for us. And when we truly understand how much we had sinned against God and what we deserved for that, then we see all the more gloriously how wonderful this gift, this free gift of grace is through the sacrifice that we have of Jesus Christ, our

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Lord, that Jesus didn't merely just go to a cross and die an agonizing physical death.

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And it certainly was that, but it was much more than that. For spiritually, he drank the wrath of God that we deserved for our iniquities.

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We would not have been able to survive that. But Jesus, because he is perfect and he is

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God, he could take the wrath of God and still live again. He was buried in a tomb.

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He rose bodily from the grave on the third day. He was seen by many for 40 days between his resurrection and then his ascension into heaven, where he is now seated at the right hand of the throne of God, interceding for us before the father.

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Amen. Glory. But when we understand how wretched we are, how sinful we are and what we deserve because of that sin, then if we don't understand that, we won't truly appreciate what it is that Christ did for us.

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So Kaspers is saying that in his experience growing up as a Seventh -day Adventist, it was difficult for him to truly understand the gospel because of this doctrine of annihilationism, the idea that the soul perishes completely.

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It does not get cast into an eternal hell, but it's just destroyed.

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And now what Kaspers is observing happen in Protestantism, in evangelicalism in America today, is that people are denying a doctrine of hell and we're trying to find ways of excusing having to believe it because we don't want to think of God torturing a person forever for all eternity.

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That's not very godly of God to do that. That's the way people will try to excuse having to believe in that doctrine because it's a monstrous

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God. It's an unloving God. Know what you fail to see is what you deserve because of your sin, how serious your sin is in the presence of an eternally righteous, holy

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God. And you're eternally unrighteous if left to your devices for all eternity. You would never seek after God, nor would you ever be able to do anything good enough to measure with his eternal holiness.

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So what you deserve is eternal judgment. And yet what we get through our Savior is eternal life.

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So amen, Kaspers. That's a wonderful point and how important it is for us to understand, to come to a right biblical understanding of a doctrine of hell, because it shows us just how sinful we are and how desperately in need of a savior we are and how wonderful that gift of grace is from God, our father, through our

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Lord Jesus Christ, that in him we will not perish, but we have everlasting life.

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So Kaspers finishes up here. Anyway, those are a few things for thought. There's a lot more that I could mention, but Seventh -day

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Adventism, among all the cults that arose within New England around the mid -19th century, including the

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Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormonism, it is the only organization that is labeled a conservative

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Protestant denomination on Wikipedia. Out of all of those cults that came out of New England in the mid -19th century, it has much more respectability than the

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Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormonism. It is less blatantly heretical than them, I agree, but that also makes it more deceptive.

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Kaspers says, I'll have to get back to you on dispensationalism another time. We were having a conversation about that. I've been thinking a lot about that lately, too.

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Anyway, God bless. Keep up the good work and thanks for all you do in Christ, Kaspers.

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God bless you, brother, and thank you so much for taking the time to send that email to me.

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It was a blessing to me and taught me, too, that I need to put a little bit more forethought into some of those answers that I will give on the

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Friday edition of the podcast, so thank you for keeping me on my toes. That's the show for today.

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If you have any questions or comments you'd like to submit to the broadcast, the email address is whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com.

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Next week, we continue with our study of the gospel of John. We're going to finish up chapter four, and then in Job, still got

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Job to do, maybe Becky will be back with me on the Friday edition, God willing. I'm still in 2

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Corinthians right now in my teaching series, so if you've been listening to the sermons on Sunday, I'm in 2

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Corinthians chapter 12 in the sermon that will air this weekend. God bless you, and I hope to visit with you again soon.

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It is so wonderful to open up the pages of scripture and see the love of God in Jesus Christ our